Mean Machine Catamaran (Sport)

[ReddyWatts]

This is a converted Mean Machine Catamaran "Sport" build that is fast, reliable and economical for anyone new to brushless fast electric boats.

Fluid has provided a Mean Machine "Racing" build later in this thread. It can run in the 60's with a Neu motor, MGM controller, 6 inch rudder and lipos.

He also gives us a sport setup for the Mean Machine. 14.8 volts, 9XL Fiegao, M545 prop, MGM16024 controller.
(44 mph on lipo / 38.1 on NiMH)

This is my setup using a high voltage controller to lower the amps, using 24 IB 3600 NiMH batteries for reliability and cool running.

Video of Mean Machine running on 14XL and 24 NiMH cells using only 55 amps - 1400 watts at over 40mph

Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJEj7GP36sE)



Motor Feigao 540 / 14XL $69.00
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=fei-540XL

Controller HV 100 amp using 12 to 36 cells $99.99
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6550&Product_Name=TURNIGY_Sentilon100A_HV_2-12S_(USA_Warehouse)

Pistix $17.99
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=msw-pistix

OEMRC BESC Programming Card $8.30
https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2169

Batteries 24 -(IB3600 cells are more reliable than the higher capacity cells.)
24- IB3600 6 cell packs for $120.00
http://www.rcstation.com/index.php?cPath=81_264_278
http://www.proboatmodels.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=PRB3313

Motor mount $7.49
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ose-drmount

Prop Y537/3 or X640 $14.50
[http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=oct-y537%2F3

Cable/drive shaft .150 3/16 drive cable $24.99
[http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ose-svcable&cat=70

Coupler 5mm - .150 flex coupler $9.95
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=oct-ocfhe5mm15

Strut $28.95
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ros-21-strut

Speedmaster 21 Rudder 5.25" Long $39.95
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ros-21-rudder

hull - mean machine $155.00
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=Aero-MM

Antenna Bruline antenna and mount $5.50
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=dh-bruline110
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=aero-6030

radio/receiver/servo FM/radio $76.99
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=dh-126751

$675.00 Total

The yellow hull is a converted nitro Mean Machine using the original hardware.. I was lucky and found a stripped down nitro hull for a great price. The blue one is still a nitro Mean Machine.

If you do a nitro conversion, you will need to add some carbon fiber, fiber glass or thin hobby plywood to the tunnel part of the hull for the motor mount. It is a little flimsy to handle the torque of the brushless motor.

Raise the bottom of the strut from 1/4 to 3/16 of an inch above the bottom of the boat.

.

[FE_Chris]

Thanks Man! So you can run a 14XL on 24 cells? WOW. I did not know this.

[Fluid]

A great thread, thanks RW. That total $ does exclude the second most expensive part - the cells. And 24 cells through a single direct drive XL is a lot, but it works for the OP.

An alternate plan with the same hull is to use a more conservative approach. IMO the MM is too small for 24 cells and works better with 12 to 18. Mine ran in the mid/high-30s on 12 IB3600 cells and a 10XL for 4+ minutes, or 45 mph with a hotter XL motor. I've hit mid 50s with 4S LiPos and a Neu motor running one mile oval heats, so the MM hull can handle power without the weight.

I guess all this proves is that there is more than one way to have fun with this hull without breaking the bank. :)


.

[SJFE]

Wow. How have they held up?

[ReddyWatts]

Are you getting a lot of water in your boat from the drive line? Add a drive Line seal. Use a rubber grommet or a piece of water line.

[Fluid]

Ready is right, I tend to think in terms of higher end cells; less potent cells deliver less power and the motors last longer.

OTOH, I ran my MM tonight with the 4S/Neu setup on fairly smooth water and here is the GPS. Five laps on a 1/10th mile course (it was a handful in the turns) and the motor was 115F, the ESC was 130F and the packs were 100F :)


.

[ReddyWatts]

WOW!, did you hear a sonic boom when it broke 60? This is a better hull than I first thought. What is its limit???

[Fluid]

This is probably faster than you could ever race it with other boats, race water would be too rough. I had to throttle it in the tight turns I had, but on the legal 1/6th mile course this would be a fun boat!

There is more speed there if all we wanted was SAW running, I used a small prop and no spoilers to keep the bow down. But on smooth water it behaved well and I could do some more tuning to settle it down a bit. But I'm like you, the hull is better than I expected. The main thing I have to concentrate on now is tuning for turning. :cool:


.

[FE_Chris]

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.......60MPH is fast man.

[hkusp45]

WOW!!!

Im impressed! I would have never guessed 60 mph!!

[ReddyWatts]

Maybe Fluid could post some pictures of his 60 mph setup for us?

[Fluid]

Sure, here ya go. But really, going fast is just a matter of setup and power. Power is money. The power level of this 60 mph setup is really too much for the hull except on flat water. I could never oval race it with other boats and keep it upright....the boat is just too small. But a prop with less pitch would bring the speed down and not rob much acceleration, that will be the next thing to try. I need to reduce the length of the power wires too, they are way too long.

http://i9.tinypic.com/4q7tw2f.jpg


Neu 1521/1D
MGM16024
TPX 4S2P/3300/25C
m440 prop
SpeedMaster hardware


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[ReddyWatts]

Well there you have it. Choose a Mean Machine "Sport" or "Race" setup, all from one thread. Get to it, start building!

[yz120]

thanks guys.
your setups both look good.
mike

[FE_Chris]

Nice man I dig it.

[ReddyWatts]

I used a M640 prop on the final setup of the Mean Machine (Sport) using IB3600 cells.
(Use the Y537/3 prop on sport cells at 50 amps.)
14XL Used 70 amps on 24 - NiMH IB3600 batts.
Raised the strut up 1/4 inch above the bottom of the boat.
Water cooled the motor and ESC.
Gained 5 mph when switched from sport to IB3600 cells, also jumped 10 amps.

[NorthernBoater]

Does anyone stock the m640 prop.

[ReddyWatts]

I trimmed the tongue on a X640 to make a M640.

[Tunda]

Fluid let me know when you want to sell it..............

[hammertime]

fluid are you using one of those mini t ib packs to run you servo??

[Fluid]

Yes, a 5-cell IB1200 pack. Runs forever even when I forget to turn the receiver off for a few hours......:p


.

[ReddyWatts]

I think another cool "sport" setup for the Mean Machine would be to install two Super Vee motor/esc combos with a dual prop drive (X447'S) on one set of 14 cell NiMH batteries. It should run in the mid forties. 50's on 4s lipos???

The 2 - 6 pole motor setup should be very reliable. Use a little longer rudder than normal.

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=dh-blcomboaq

[Craig]

These 3300 cells have been ok. They are not close to the quality of the IB cells. My next set will be IB cells for more speed, but they do fine on the 14XL or a 700SC for sport running. I would not use them on a 12XL to 7XL motor.

Why wouldnt you use a 12-7xl motor with this many cells?:confused1: How about a 12xl with 21 ib cells? C

[Craig]

I am going to go brushless. I keep getting told you cant run 21 cells on a 10xl in a 36" boat. Would that over volt the motor? Is the boat too big? Help me out please. C

[Steven Vaccaro]

The boat is to big. You either need a physically larger motor. Or a lower rpm xl feigao which will give you more torque.

[ED66677]

Craig, a 10XL under 21 cell will spin more than 41000rpm and give a max power of 1660Watt at 66amp, witch is enough, if you need more power you need to use then a 9 or 8XL, less turn more amp and higher KV, but increasing cell count increases rpm you will then reach a situation where you spin fast, drain many amp, but spin a very small prop, if the prop is too small it won't be able to transfert the 1660watt from the power plant to the water, a reasonable (as far as I know) slip between prop and water is around 15%, this mean a 2" pitch prop will move a boat of 2" minus 15% of 2" (hope my frenglish is clear enough), in this particular case the slip will considerably increase 30-40% (I guess), so you will have plenty of power but will only waste it, because the prop is just not able to!
So you need a bigger prop and the only way with a 10XL under 21cell is to use gear

As steven said use a bigger motor KB45 8XL that has a lower KV but a lot more torque, you will avoid the gear, and you'll have the possibility to double the available power... and so for 10 extra bucks!

[Craig]

So the smaller the number 8xl has more torque than a 10xl? What is the max you can spin an xl motor? C

[ED66677]

No Craig 8XL has less torque than 10XL
Max rpm is 50000 and 70000 with ceramic bearing

[Rex R]

bump (suggestion, sticky this thread)

[ReddyWatts]

Results of the 60 mph Mean Machine setup.

Fluid

I run the 1521/1D in my Mean Machine spinning an m440 on 4S and it does ~60 mph for 6 laps on a 1/8 mile course. Nothing gets very hot, and it uses around 3600 mAh of capacity. It certainly does not draw 200+ amps, its closer to 125 amps.

[txboatpilot]

I think another cool "sport" setup for the Mean Machine would be to install two Super Vee motor/esc combos with a dual prop drive (X447'S) on one set of 14 cell NiMH batteries. It should run in the mid forties. 50's on 4s lipos???

The 2 - 6 pole motor setup should be very reliable. Use a little longer rudder than normal.

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=dh-blcomboaq

Reddy, I built a twin cat with 2/SV27 motor and esc combos. The hull is a Skunkworks 30" cat.. I ran it on 2/4S1P lipo's 3700mAH, they are about the same weight as 14cells... I put the gps in with CF45's counter rotating, and got a best of 33 mph.. I have s&b x447's to try, but I think with all the extra weight it needs a higher KV motor.. I am switching the motors out to Ammo 36-50-2300's to see if that will get it over 40mph?? I have other props, so I can always go down.. Here is a the thread on the twin..http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=2400

[ReddyWatts]

I was going to run it on a single lipo for both motors in parallel, since they use around 40 amps each. Half of the weight. 4S1P. I thought that was the big advantage of using SV 4-pole motors. I would not give up on it yet, it just does not add up.

You really need to adjust the struts on the twin. On Robby76's first run with his 2-10XL, 2-16 cell twin cat was running 32 mph, then he adjusted his struts for a big increase in speed. It ended up going 43mph in a 42" 12 pounder. It is a cool sounding boat.

Use bigger props. ABC props has a better selection of L/R props.

Play with the CG.

The twin props should turn inward for more speed.

[txboatpilot]

The weight savings wont be enough to offset the weight of the Hull...IMO.... M/M are heavy hulls compared to most DF, H&M, and skunkworks.. I would like to see you try it, but even with 4S1P, i dont see it doing more than 35mph with x447's... I will run a 4S1P in the SK-II, just too see what the gps says..

[SJFE]

The hull Mr Watts is refering to is almost 40 inches if my memory serves me. You should be mid to high 40s on a 30 cat around 10 pounds with your setup easy. Heck my Jolly was mid 40s on 16 nimh @ 8 pounds 5 inches longer than the MM. :wink:

[ReddyWatts]

I would be interested in buying the two SV motors.

[txboatpilot]

The hull Mr Watts is refering to is almost 40 inches if my memory serves me. You should be mid to high 40s on a 30 cat around 10 pounds with your setup easy. Heck my Jolly was mid 40s on 16 nimh @ 8 pounds 5 inches longer than the MM. :wink:

I thought Reddy was refering to the M/M.. It is 29" long...:confused1:

[txboatpilot]

I would be interested in buying the two SV motors.


I am going to hang on to them until I get another Ammo 36-50-2300...:smile:

[SJFE]

On Robby76's first run with his 2-10XL, 2-16 cell twin cat was running 32 mph,

I didn't know Rob had a MM. The only cat I ever seen him run was his big old kyosho conversion. I will have to look him up cause now I'm confused..lol...Like thats a rare thing hahahahah.

[Fluid]

It can be confusing trying to compare two different catamaran hulls, even with the same approximate lengths. The design of the tunnel and sponsons can make a huge difference in speeds, even with the same motor/cells. Too, how high do you fly the hull when making "speed" passes? Wet sponsons versus running on the last few inches can mean 5-10 mph more speed.

I have never seen a Skunky hull, it may be a great design or it may be stinky. The MM, while heavy, has excellent design features and can carry the weight very well with enough power. This is due to the wide tunnel, the tunnel entry and the sponson bottoms. That weight helps in rougher water, which is really the cat's forte anyway.

Tx, how is the attitude of the cat when making passes? Is it flat, or is it runing on the back of the sponsons? Your speed with the CF45s is about right for a boat that is running tight. Try to fly it higher and see if the speeds increase. Move the CG back and angle the drives with 1-2 degrees up at the back end - do it with the boat on a flat table, not "by eye" just holding the hull. If turning is compromised, just chop the throttle for an instant as you begin the turn, then feed in throttle. That will drop the bows and let you turn tighter.


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[txboatpilot]

Wet sponsons versus running on the last few inches can mean 5-10 mph more speed.

I have never seen a Skunky hull, it may be a great design or it may be stinky. The MM, while heavy, has excellent design features and can carry the weight very well with enough power. This is due to the wide tunnel, the tunnel entry and the sponson bottoms. That weight helps in rougher water, which is really the cat's forte anyway.

Tx, how is the attitude of the cat when making passes? Is it flat, or is it runing on the back of the sponsons? Your speed with the CF45s is about right for a boat that is running tight. Try to fly it higher and see if the speeds increase. Move the CG back and angle the drives with 1-2 degrees up at the back end - do it with the boat on a flat table, not "by eye" just holding the hull. If turning is compromised, just chop the throttle for an instant as you begin the turn, then feed in throttle. That will drop the bows and let you turn tighter.




I run in a oval mostly, no straight line stuff.. I like to practice in my local ponds, as if there were a oval course..Skunky was running on the last 5-7" of the sponsons.. I will try your tips! My first test run was 33mph and I did not have a lipo warmer! My lipos were cold, I am going to pick up a heater to pre-heat them next time..

[SJFE]

Pay close attention here TX. Mr Fluid knows his cats. I used this same advice and while my strut is not ajustable I did grab a hand full of speed from proper CG and flying my hull. I tucked my ruder under full to help with my corrnering. I wish I would have held on to my MM..It just happens to be the one Mr Watts has :(. If I ever attempt twins again the MM will be the hull.

[txboatpilot]

Pay close attention here TX. Mr Fluid knows his cats. I used this same advice and while my strut is not ajustable I did grab a hand full of speed from proper CG and flying my hull. I tucked my ruder under full to help with my corrnering. I wish I would have held on to my MM..It just happens to be the one Mr Watts has :(. If I ever attempt twins again the MM will be the hull.


I always listen too everything Jay has to offer! I have a M/M already that has Jay's set-up.. I run it with Nue 1515/1Y (2200KV) and MGM 16024-3s hydro.. on 4S2P 3700's 25C.. With a M445 this thing FLYS (50+ on the GPS)and is one of my fleet that I will not sell!!

The Skunkworks hull is just for FUN, I really like the dual props!!

[Flying Scotsman]

[QUOTE=SJFE;26293][B][I][COLOR="Navy"]Pay close attention here TX. Mr Fluid knows his cats.

No kidding Tom. Thanks Jay for your advise and also Reddy. :tiphat:

Douggie

[ReddyWatts]

This is the setup I would recommend now for a fast sport Mean Machine build. It could be upgraded with lipo's to run in the 50's as txboatpilot states.

Neu 1515 1Y 2200 kv
12 NiMH cells IB3600
NiMH.150/Lipo .187 flex shaft
X640 prop 25903 rpm 76 amps 930 watts 48mph NiMH
X642 prop 24780 rpm 88amps 1000 watts 49 mph NiMH
atleast a 120 amp controller on NiMH's.
Use a 200 amp controller on lipo's and larger props.

[rcflyer55]

All the parts ordered, Hull sitting in my workshop. Still need to get Lipos. Will start building(installing) next week hopfully.

Thanks for all the help Fluid & ReddyWatts(and the build thread)

everyone has made a FE newbie feel welcome(and not so dumb).

I'll do my best to get through the rest on my own.

MM .18 Hull converted
Feigao 10XL
Hydra 120
Speedmaster Hardware
asst hardware all from ReddyWatts build
Batts undecided (probably TP ExtremeV2 4S2P 3850mA or 4500mA)

[ReddyWatts]

Mean Machine (Sport), Feigao 14XL, Y537/3 prop, 24 IB3600 cells, Jeti 77 amp HV controller.

Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJEj7GP36sE

..

[obrien]

What CG are you running Fluid? I ran my MM today with a decent wind. Going with the wind the hull was way too tight, but into the wind it was carrying very nicely until I finally blew it over. I think the strut needs a bit of tuning, but I would like to know what a good starting point is for the CG.

[supafastsupra2]

Hey guys, new to the FE boats here. I just bought a MM from lakefrontlivin here, and was wondering what would be a good setup for what I've got. It has feigao 9xl, barracuda 125 esc, aeromarine hardware, .150 flex shaft, 440/3 prop, and two poly r/c 4cell 4900mah 25c packs. Is this a good setup as is, or should i change the motor/ prop etc. thanks,
SFS2

[Eodman]

If I were you I wouldn't change a thing for now! That boat is very quick as it is! Learn how it handles .... drive it awhile you may find that you like it as it is!

Lake front had this build posted and it went like stink!

[supafastsupra2]

ok, thanks. i'll run it as is for now. but if i wanted to run around the mid 50's could i get away with say a neu 1515 on my current speed controller? thanks again,
SFS2

[Eodman]

Are you new to R/C boats? I found a big difference in driving a 30MPH boat & one that's above 40! Takes some time learning to drive them fast!

At least it's taking time for me to learn .... but then I'm an old fart !

[supafastsupra2]

no, I'm not new to them. i also have a 70+ mph mono gasser so i know what I'm getting myself into :]

[ReddyWatts]

Mean Machine

Feigao 12XL on 6S lipo, Y537/3 prop, 48.6mph

Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGVdNT76M0w&feature=related

[ace028]

That looks like one "mean machine" on the water, great job!!!! :thumbup1:

[FE Wannabe]

Mean Machine

Feigao 12XL on 6S lipo, Y537/3 prop, 48.6mph

Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGVdNT76M0w&feature=related

Reddy,
Lookin' Good, very stable and controllable....:tiphat:
Did you happen to get any temps after that run?
Do you think an 11XL would work on 6S in that hull, and if so where should I start with my prop sizes, Y536 or smaller? I am thinking about picking up one of Remy's flood specials and giving it a go.:thumbup:
Thanks,
Brad

[sewerpit]

just ordered an mm hull and hardware, the guy is great , hull and hardware for 95 bucs how can you beat that. fluid would love to see more pics from diffrent angles of your boat. also am a little confused, looks like mr watts uses an awful lot of batteries, are 2 25c 7.4 5100 mah lipos going to be enough if i install the neu1521 you are using, steer me in the right direction still kinda new to this so the 4s compaired to 2s thing is throwing me off, does this mean you are running 2 2s or what looks like two packs in your pic thanks hate to sound dumb but want to be sure

[ReddyWatts]

Mean Machine

Feigao 12XL on 6S lipo, Y537/3 prop, 48.6mph

Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGVdNT76M0w&feature=related


Guys this is not my boat. I added this setup to the thread as another option for anyone wanting to build a Mean Machine. It now shows setups for 4s, 6s and 8s in the MM. Take your pick.

[ReddyWatts]

Reddy,
Lookin' Good, very stable and controllable....
Did you happen to get any temps after that run?
Do you think an 11XL would work on 6S in that hull, and if so where should I start with my prop sizes, Y536 or smaller? I am thinking about picking up one of Remy's flood specials and giving it a go.

FeCalc estimates:
Feigao 11XL on 6S, Y537/3 prop
73 amps
1500 watts
30300 rpm
50 mph

Feigao 12XL on 6S, Y537/3 prop
59 amps
1250 watts
28150 rpm
47 mph

[ice329]

Quick question, is this hull/prop considered a SUBMERGED PROP or SURFACE PROP that would run on this hull.

[ReddyWatts]

surface prop

[Chilli]

Guys, What rudder offset are you running with the speedmaster hardware???

Thanks!

[lomdel]

Any more exciting MM set-ups? I am on the verge of ordering one, selling all my 3S packs and using my 11XL on 5S2P in this hull. Would start with the X442 prop, or not?
Then I will de-convert my TC31 back to nitro...

[ReddyWatts]

X442 sounds like a good place to start with your setup. I like the 6s 11, 12 and 13XL setups in the MM.

[bustitup]

I confirm thread should b sticky

Mr watts .....your thoughts on my setup


1515/2,5d. 1650kv
Hi model 200amp
6s or 5s 5000mah 25c/50c

Should I use a thrust bearing?

Prop suggestion for 40 50 60 mph?


I will have fan and water cooling like you

[lomdel]

X442 sounds like a good place to start with your setup. I like the 6s 11, 12 and 13XL setups in the MM.

11XL and even 12XL on 6S amounts to too many watts, not so Reddy? Thats why I used 13XL on my 6S set-up in a 31" cat. Would the 11XL on 6S in a MM hull be that much different?

[ReddyWatts]

I would run them with the Y537/3 prop. Not to many watts. It works well on the MM hull. I have a new prop that would be like a Y538/4 that I am going to try on the MM.

Bustitup
Cant help with this setup. Maybe someone will chime in from their experience?
1515/2,5d. 1650kv
Hi model 200amp
6s or 5s 5000mah 25c/50c

Prop suggestion for 40 50 60 mph?

[DISAR]

I will propose something according to some calculations which I do for my motors (recently run the 1512/2D in the MM with good results). First of all it is better to run 6s and the below info is for 6s1p and the speeds are approximate
M or X 440, 70 amps, 40mph+
642 or x445, 105 amps, 50mph
645, 135 amps, 60mph
646, 145 amps, 60mph+

[bustitup]

I will propose something according to some calculations which I do for my motors (recently run the 1512/2D in the MM with good results). First of all it is better to run 6s and the below info is for 6s1p and the speeds are approximate
M or X 440, 70 amps, 40mph+
642 or x445, 105 amps, 50mph
645, 135 amps, 60mph
646, 145 amps, 60mph+

whats the difference a m or x prop.....is this info all on the 1512 motor?

[Fluid]

You will blow your ESC if you try to run 6S on a 1512/2D with an m645. Those props and speed suggestions cannot be for anything but a calculator.

Your 1515/2.5D motor is really too much for 6S except for racing. It would work fine on 4S but 60 mph is out of the question. Run an x445 for sport and an m545 or m645 for speeds in the 45-50 mph range on 4S. If you want more speed you'll have to get a different motor for either 4S or 6S, unless you enjoy buying ESCs regularly.

The 'M' series props are just like the 'X' series with the same number, except they have some blade area removed from the leading edge (tongue).



.

[bustitup]

You will blow your ESC if you try to run 6S on a 1512/2D with an m645. Those props and speed suggestions cannot be for anything but a calculator.

Your 1515/2.5D motor is really too much for 6S except for racing. It would work fine on 4S but 60 mph is out of the question. Run an x445 for sport and an m545 or m645 for speeds in the 45-50 mph range on 4S. If you want more speed you'll have to get a different motor for either 4S or 6S, unless you enjoy buying ESCs regularly.

The 'M' series props are just like the 'X' series with the same number, except they have some blade area removed from the leading edge (tongue).



.

Fluid I was hoping you would chime in....I thought I was going to have to pm you ;)

first of all I found it hard to believe he was running 6s on a 2500kv motor and living through it without causing a melt down

My actual first choice for the motor going in my MM is my 1515/2.5d 1650 kv

I heard good things about the Hi model 200 esc and ordered one two days ago I will modify it with Steve's cooling plates and then water proof it

My plan was pairs of 3s lipo's or one single 5s.....please give me your choices for props to go 40 50 60+ mph

thanks in advance
nick

[Mel279]

You will blow your ESC if you try to run 6S on a 1512/2D with an m645. Those props and speed suggestions cannot be for anything but a calculator.

Your 1515/2.5D motor is really too much for 6S except for racing. It would work fine on 4S but 60 mph is out of the question. Run an x445 for sport and an m545 or m645 for speeds in the 45-50 mph range on 4S. If you want more speed you'll have to get a different motor for either 4S or 6S, unless you enjoy buying ESCs regularly.

The 'M' series props are just like the 'X' series with the same number, except they have some blade area removed from the leading edge (tongue).



.

Mr Jay, what motor should I use if I want to go for 6s?I've got feigao 12xl, is this ok?are there any device which could protect esc from blown or fried?

[calcagno45]

12xl should be great on 6s!

[Mel279]

12xl should be great on 6s!

Hey thanks, what cutoff voltage should I set on hydra 240 if Im using 6s?with 12xl motor, can I reach 60mph on that?

[Mel279]

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/prodimages/cmd-racing-prop-4bld_medium.JPG

3657/4 is 36mm in diameter, 57mm pitch.
3857/4 is 38mm in diameter, 57mm pitch.
3861/4 is 38mm in diameter, 61mm pitch.

I got the info from OSE store

Is this prop suitable for mean machine with 6s setup?

[DISAR]

whats the difference a m or x prop.....is this info all on the 1512 motor?



The info I gave you is based on your motor and not mine.

[DISAR]

As you understand unless you use a motor that it has been run and tested by someone and then by somebody else you will not get many answers to your questions.
Testing is the best thing you can do taking the risks ofcourse. My proposals are based on estimations and calculations and where you can start. Start with the smaller propeller and when everything is cool start going to bigger ones.

[sewerpit]

great info, maybe you can help me a bit with props, there are so many people using diff set ups with good results and it can get confusing . i will be running my mm with an 8xl ,hydra 120 esc on 4s2p what props should i be looking at for sport and then for speed thanks for your input MR.watts your input would be great too thanks

[calcagno45]

Mel: I would stick with the Octura X and M props. Those CNC props are pretty unchartered territories compared to the tried and true ability of the Octuras.
As far as the voltage cutoff on the Hydra, most people will set them anywhere from 3.0-3.3v per cell. Never go below that 3.0v per cell.

Sewerpit: I would try a X440 or X440/3 to start. Make sure everything is good and then start propping up. Another nice prop on the MM is the Y537/3. good speed and drops the amps.

[bustitup]

Hey thanks, what cutoff voltage should I set on hydra 240 if Im using 6s?with 12xl motor, can I reach 60mph on that?

Well on rc cars this how you figure it

There are 3,7 volts per cell so. A 6s lipo has 22.2 volts

So to figure cut off take the number of cells x 3.2 so in you case 3.2 x 6. = 19.2 would be the safe cut off

[Mel279]

Well on rc cars this how you figure it

There are 3,7 volts per cell so. A 6s lipo has 22.2 volts

So to figure cut off take the number of cells x 3.2 so in you case 3.2 x 6. = 19.2 would be the safe cut off

Hey bustitup, thanks for the info regarding the cut off:thumbup1:

[Brushless55]

what speeds should a MM get using 4s on a 8XL ?
thanks, I love my MM !

[obrien]

my guess would be mid to upper 40mph range

[toysRme]

Guys, What rudder offset are you running with the speedmaster hardware???

Thanks!

Just got my hull from OSE and want to the same info???

intended setup
seaking 180A
Feiago 9xl
zippy 4s 5000 30c
x440
speedmaster hardware mono strut and 5.5 inch rudder

any input would be appreciated:thumbup1:

[rawsonreyes]

hi guys the whole thread got some great setups but has anyone try the 580motors from steven. i have got an 90amps quickworldwide.com esc starts at 6s can this setup be eff, props x440/442/447 i do my own prop mods/ s/b/det also cupping. speedmaster strut/5"rudder.could this range give 50-60mph.rreyes.:help:

[Scott T]

Just got my hull from OSE and want to the same info???

intended setup
seaking 180A
Feiago 9xl
zippy 4s 5000 30c
x440
speedmaster hardware mono strut and 5.5 inch rudder

any input would be appreciated:thumbup1:

My rudder is just inside the edge of the right sponson. Seems to work very well. Pics in this thread - http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=6316&highlight=aussie

You should be able to bump up to an X442 and maybe even an M445 with that set up, but start with the X440 and see how she goes! :thumbup1:

[Brushless55]

hi guys the whole thread got some great setups but has anyone try the 580motors from steven. i have got an 90amps quickworldwide.com esc starts at 6s can this setup be eff, props x440/442/447 i do my own prop mods/ s/b/det also cupping. speedmaster strut/5"rudder.could this range give 50-60mph.rreyes.:help:


I think I saw a MM with a 580 and it was nuts!

[sailr]

Doesn't that depend on the esc? Some have cutoff set at the volts per cell, eg. 3.2V and some are set as a multiple of 3.2V X #of cells.


Well on rc cars this how you figure it

There are 3,7 volts per cell so. A 6s lipo has 22.2 volts

So to figure cut off take the number of cells x 3.2 so in you case 3.2 x 6. = 19.2 would be the safe cut off

[ozzie-crawl]

was asked for acouple pics of my MM setup, thought i mite as well put them here

[bustitup]

Doesn't that depend on the esc? Some have cutoff set at the volts per cell, eg. 3.2V and some are set as a multiple of 3.2V X #of cells.


I was referring to how to determine HOW to choose the voltage cut off you would choose if the esc gave you a bunch of options

for instance the castle link gives you a list of voltages to choose from....the formula i presented shows you how to choose the proper one

[eboat]

was asked for acouple pics of my MM setup, thought i mite as well put them here


Looks good but you should pull the shrink off the esc and water proof it (I have the same one and have seen one that got wet at a club race and melted)

[CornelP]

If you waterproof and watercool, it will be bulletproof (almost)... Ran it sunday on Feigao 10XL, 45mm prop, 4S2P 4800 and it was barely warm

[ozzie-crawl]

it is conformal coated, i usally only run for acouple of minutes at a time so no water cooling needed, if i do start getting some heat issues i will just add a fan :banana:

[eboat]

Sorry it looked like it still had the factory shrink on it and not water proofed yet

[ozzie-crawl]

i would have thought the same thing, i work for a electrical switchboard company and we have rolls upon rolls of diffrent heat shrink :thumbup1:

[Scott T]

was asked for acouple pics of my MM setup, thought i mite as well put them here

Looks neat and tidy, nice one! What packs are you running?

[ozzie-crawl]

thanks scott, running 2x2s 30c 5000 flightmax (zippys)

[Rich]

This seems to be the right place for this question...i was thinking about building a MM that will hit 60+ i am on a budget of about 500 any suggestions? I would like to try a twin set up but a single would do and oh the 500 doesn't include the lipos is there a feigo motor that is close to the neu 1521 1d?

[CornelP]

Yup! Feigao 540 6L, 4116rmp/V, max amps 102A,
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=fei-540L

[eboat]

1521 1D 2900KV

I think you want a 6XL 2871 KV

[eboat]

Do you have lipos for 4S or 6S set up ?

[CornelP]

Right eboat, sorry, was reading the 1512...:crying:

[Steven Vaccaro]

The 540xl motor can not compare to the reliability and constant output that a 1521 motor can put out. A Feigao 580L is closer.

[Rich]

i can get any battery setup. steve, i looked at the specks of the neu and noticed that the constant out put is 1750 watts and the 580 is about 1800 watts, that makes more sense to me i agree there, so you are saying go with the 580 6L w/ 70,000 bearings? and maybe an etti 150 opto 30 volt esc?

[Brushless55]

Keep in mind the 580 will have more torque over the 540, and that will swing the same size prop more easy.

[Rich]

thats true, thats why i want this thing to be a screamer

[Brushless55]

Awesome, keep us posted..
I may get a 580 for my MM

[Rich]

odds are you will get it before me :bounce: money is short right now:mad:

[Brushless55]

well I'm wanting to buy a new motor for my Baja 5B first..

[Rich]

lol i see hey would the etti 150 opto esc hold up to the 580? i looked at the specs i think it will

[befu]

Anyone try an outrunner with a MM yet? Looking for a slower sport boat, mid 30's only.... For now:w00t:

[DISAR]

After testing various motors on my MM I am running it now with an outrunner Align 600XL 1700KV on 6s with a 440/3. I have a made a carbon cooling jacket for the motor (the external casing does not rotate) Speed is abt 45 mph and motor temp is 150 F

[ozzie-crawl]

disar whats your run time when the motor gets to 150 f

[questtek]

Awesome, keep us posted..
I may get a 580 for my MM

Ever get it and check the speeds with the 580 L?

[DISAR]

disar whats your run time when the motor gets to 150 f

About 3-4 mins. I also tried the 9XL on 4s but motor temp was a bit higher

[Brushless55]

Ever get it and check the speeds with the 580 L?


No, I'm still running a 9XL..

[ozzie-crawl]

About 3-4 mins. I also tried the 9XL on 4s but motor temp was a bit higher

thanks was just comparing to mine running a 8xl on 4s m440/3 is around the mid to high 40s and motor at bearings after 2 min is around 110 f esc caps the same

[DISAR]

What is your strut position? Mine is about 3 mm or 1/8" (botom of strut above bottom of sponsons) and parallel, and running in sea water

[ozzie-crawl]

mine is 8mm from bottom of strut to bottom of sponsons and prop up about 2 deg, has a nose up attitude
running like this on fairly flat water its really stable speed is around 45 mph
but were i run has lots of cross winds and gets choppy a lot, but this is when the MM loves it the most and i pickup 3-4 mph
couldnt get mine to run properly on anything less than 8mm, just wanted to porpoise,

[DISAR]

Thanks, I will try that. Seems that it brings the motor temps down

[ozzie-crawl]

yea it certainly will, think a lot of guys run from about 3/16 to 1/4

[Rich]

What rudder should i use with the MM? the speedmaster mini or the 6" one?

[ozzie-crawl]

from what i have heard people have had turning problems with the mini on theMM, i run the 6" on mine and it turns like its on rails

[ReddyWatts]

I would use a rudder longer than 4" if running over 40 mph.

[Rich]

so this one it is then? pt# ros-21-rudder Speedmaster 21 Rudder Assembly 5.25" Long

[Chilli]

That's it. With the 1.5" setback.

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ros-21-rudder

[Rich]

ok gentlemen here it is a mean machine with a 580 6L, m440 prop, 6" speed master rudder and strut, .150 cable, 150 amp etti with 35v cap, 6.5mm bullet connects, and 4s 8000 mAH lipos. Speed 40 mph, amps on first run 150.53 2007 watts, hull was a little wet, 2nd run moved the strut up about 3/16" with a degree or two of angle, speed still 40 mph, amps 141.87 and 1851 watts better, but i still think it has more, temps esc 155f, motor 86f, per eagle tree elogger V3. I will try moving the lipos back more to fly the hull, are there any other suggestions to make it faster?

[Fluid]

The first problem is the prop - it's too small for that motor. Try an m445 or m645 and see how it runs. The overall setup looks good from the photos, but a few questions:

- Exactly where is the CG now?
- Set the boat on a flat surface - where is the bottom of the strut relative to the sponson bottoms? What angle?
- What timing advance are you using on the ESC?
- How much gap between the strut and the drive dog?



.

[Brushless55]

second could be the rudder is huge..
I would take 2" off

[Rumdog]

The man machines dig a long rudder. I'd keep it!

[Brushless55]

I don't know man, I have a 4" on mine and it turns sharp and hard
I think the extra could cause the bow to pull down and make the hull run wetter?
140+ amps and only 40mph :confused2:

[sailr]

you're gonna demagnetize the Feigao at those temps and then it will destroy your esc. Ask me how I know!

It looks to me like way too much weight in a MM and way overpowered.

[blackcat26]

I'd run the cooling tubing to the speed control first then motor.....It takes #1 priority on being cool, motor second.

[Rich]

The first problem is the prop - it's too small for that motor. Try an m445 or m645 and see how it runs. The overall setup looks good from the photos, but a few questions:

- Exactly where is the CG now?
- Set the boat on a flat surface - where is the bottom of the strut relative to the sponson bottoms? What angle?
- What timing advance are you using on the ESC?
- How much gap between the strut and the drive dog?



.

Fluid you are the one i was hoping would answer since your neu mean machine was my inspiration for this project :bounce:. I want to hit 60 tops, but 50 to 55 would be ok if 60 is not possible.

>Anyway i have attached some photos of my CG, the center line of the batteries are just behind the 9.25" red tic mark which is 33%

>The bottom of the strut is actually 3/32" from the bottom of the sponsons not 3/16" like i had stated before and the angle is about 1.5 degrees. I can't move the strut much more with out having to bend the stuffing tube again as you can see in the pic.

> I am using a timing of 1 deg since this more is a 2 pole motor.

>As for the gap i used 3/16" for the run that pulled 150 amps, i notice some water in the hull and added a piece of fuel tubing b/t the drive dog and strut, I raised the strut and the amps were 141 i know that there needs to be a gap, but i don't have enough cable length for it with the fuel tubing thought i still have a leak somewhere...

As for you prop suggestions, wouldn't i gain amps if i switched to a bigger prop? After I raised the strut for the second run i noticed that the prop cavitated up until just after1/4 throttle and the thing took off!

Fluid did you shorten the rudder on yours like the others down below have suggested?

Thanks everyone!!!!:bowdown:

[Rich]

here are the pics

[Jeff Wohlt]

That stuffing tube bend is EXCESSIVE! There is some of your problem...you are going to eat something up like that...probably the cable and the tube.

If you are pulling those amps you have issues. You should be in the 80-100 amp area. I am running a X442 and only warm after dumping the cells.

[knpc]

It could be the picture, but the stuffing tube looks to have a abrupt bend instead of a nice long sweep. It could cause resistance that would lead to slower speeds and higher amps.

[Jeff Wohlt]

And cut off some of that rudder! You only want about 2.5" under the water. It is tappered and I don't use those but still I would remove some for sure.

[Brushless55]

I thing the CG needs to be moved back..

[Xfactor]

So the smaller the number 8xl has more torque than a 10xl? What is the max you can spin an xl motor? CThe lower kv motors have more torque.The 10xl has more torque.

[Rich]

well i ran my MM tonight and a got some good results, i moved both lipos back about 2 inches from the back, 125.57 amps, 1660 watts, temp of esc 114f, motor 85.8f, speed though was 36mph, my prop came off when i let off the throttle :( thats ok though it was worth it, I order some different size anyway.

> My tube is a bit excessively bent but i could not make it a sweep, do to the motor being at angle which it needs to be to fit under the cowl. The flex seems to be holding up, i don't see any where on the Teflon tube but time can only tell that story.

[BakedMopar]

580 6l and your only getting 36-40 mph? Something must be wrong.

[Rumdog]

Prop is WAAY too small! Need a gap between the strut and drive dog. Thatg bend in the tube could also be causing excessive drag,and amps.

[Brushless55]

I run my batteries all the way back in my MM
and for me that helped a bunch

[Jeff Wohlt]

Me too -- about 1" from the transom.

[DISAR]

me too

The amps are a little higher than they should be, I can say the following

a) You can reach higher speeds only with bigger prop, 445,645
b) Your amps will increase too and maybe the etti will let go...
c) I suggest to cut some part of your rudder, at least 1" ( I cut mine too and turning was same and better performance)
d) This is quite difficult to do but you should do it sooner or later, it is the stuffing tube angle. It creates unnecessary resistance BOTH water and friction (one cause of your high amps). You need a uniform radius from the point it exists the hull until the strut, no need to be straight only before the strut and motor 2" about. Lower the motor angle as well, pls see attached rough sketch
e) Batteries about 1" from the back

Speeds are relative and depends on many conditions (gps-water-chop-density-sea-fresh etc...) (I have never achieved the speeds mentioned here even with same boat-setup)

[Rich]

Well I fixed the flex tube problem, had to do some cutting and moved the water cooling jacket back to be able to move the motor down, I am happy with the way it came out. I will try it at the end of the week, ill let you guys know.

[Rich]

I ran the MM a few times with different setups,

First: grim racer prop 53 x 40, mini rudder, strut all the way up, 11.1 lipo

esc temp 119f, motor 83f

96 Amp, 1100 watts 36mph

Second: grim 53 x 40, mini rudder, 4s

esc temp 135f, motor 92f

166 amp, 2266 watt 43mph

Third: m445 prop, mini rudder, 11.1 lipo

Esc temp 138.5 f, motor 81.3

148 amp, 1675 watt, 45mph

Fourth: m445, long rudder (trimmed about 1" off) 4s, strut still all the way up with about 1 deg angle

Esc temp 182f, motor 96.7f

Amp 181.67 (WOW!) 2578 watts (WOW AGAIN) and the fastest speed yet 48mph!!

Just to let you guys know that i didn't do these in this order and the hull was well out of the water with these setups , but i do have a question on what i should have my etti 150 set to in terms of PWM with the 580 6l and the timing????

[D&D]

This is my new MM build, my first FE build:
Neu 1515 1y
Castle Hydra HV 180
Futabe PM3-X FAAST
Turnigy 4S-2P (5000MA @ 35-45C)

First Run water way too rough ran slow and discovered a couple of minor problems. Second run on X440-3 GPS @ 54.5mph. Third run on X442 GPS @ 55.5mph. Temps acceptable and the boat is running like it is on a rail - which is not to say I would go racing, but it is a nice sport boat at this point.

Don't know if I am posting the pics correctly, but here is my try:

/http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/album.php?albumid=196&pictureid=1997
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/album.php?albumid=196&pictureid=2000
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/picture.php?albumid=196&pictureid=1987

[Rich]

Nice i like it! so your using two 4s packs wired in parallel? And which rudder are you using?

[D&D]

Yes, two 4S packs in parallel (4S2P). The rudder and strut are Speed Master 21s.

So far I've run a X440-3, X442, and a modified X445 with the strut at different heights and I can seem to get away from 55mph (54.5 to 55.5). I havn't done that much testing yet, but I am somewhat confused by the consistency of the mph. This is my first FE but I have built a ton of nitro Areaomarine cat boats, oh well, testing continues today if weather permits.

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/album.php?albumid=196&pictureid=2000

[Brushless55]

D&D, Great looking MM! :thumbup:

[Rich]

which rudder are you using the long 6" one or the mini 4" one?

[D&D]

It was 6" long but now it is 4&1/2" long. I love cuting things down and filing things by hand, seem to handle OK - BUT I don't go racing.

[Rich]

ok so you trimmed it, i might have to take more off of mine, i noticed that the longer one is thicker than the mini. Can you tell me how much your pack weigh each in grams? I was thinking about getting some 4s packs. And can you tell me how far the bottom of the strut is from the bottom of the sponsons and what angle you have it at? I can't seem to hit over 50 with out the amps getting too high!

[D&D]

Back in the 80s there was a documentary TV show on the Australian who still holds the world’s water speed record and in that show it showed him cutting off his rudder to gain more speed. The following week there were more inches cut off rudders than in the history of the Capitol RCers club. I never saw much or any difference in the handling of a cat boat and with no GPS or radar (in our club) it was hard to tell about speed.

My rudder is 2 and three-eights inches under the running bottom of the boat and and is straight up and down. It seems to handle fine, but remember I’m not in a race and am building the boat for sport (just can’t stand to go slow).

My batteries are 4S Turnigy 5000mAh, 35-45C, and weigh 554g. I seem to run them well forward of other MMs I see on the OSE Forum. In fact my COG is well forward of other MMs, but it seens to really lift and the attitude of the boat looks great.

As I have stated previously, I am a FE beginner, I've tried to take advice from the forum and boats like "Fluid" "and Nautiboyz". I put that advice into what I bought and the care I took about starting prop sizes and watching my temps carefully, but I have no idea how many amps I'm pulling or anything else electric.

I'm not so sure I agree (or understand at this point) about prop sizing. Normally, my past experience says (if the motor can turn it) larger prop faster speed, but I've run as fast or very near the same speeds with a X440-3 as with a X445 prop. In fact my next move (when the weather clears up) is to go back to the X440-3 with the strut level with the bottom of the boat.

[Rich]

I am new to FE cats too, i have an FE mini mono. I was wondering if you could tell me where your strut was when you ran the X440 and the X442? And where your COG was?

[D&D]

Initially when I ran the X440-3 my strut was just less than one-quarter inch up, results: 54.4mph. Same location for the strut with the X442 results: 55.5mph). Then when I ran the X445 my strut was just under three-eights inch up, results 55.0mph. I always ran my nitro boats with the strut flush with the bottom of the boat and proped or work props to that setting. Therefore, that is were I am going back to at this point in time.

I actually don't know the measurement of my COG, but I know it is over 10 inches from the transom of the hull. However; I'm going to move the COG back to somewhere around nine and one-half inches from the transom - I'll find out if I can get more lift without blowing over. That should be "fun".

[Brushless55]

Are you going back to 0 setting on your strut depth to see how it runs?

[D&D]

I started a new thread in the Boat Building section this morning concerning my boat.

But, yes, this morning I ran the boat first with an X440-3 with the struct even with the bottom, "O", and I ran 57.3mph. Oh, I also set the COG way back, I was running much further forward than anyone I had seen in this form, and it was a little flighty even with the 3 blade. Next, I ran a X442 with the same settings and it ran 56.3mph just before it lifted off and crashed. I will move the COG a little forward after that experence, but it seem as though this morning told me that the Neu 1515 1Y is more of an rpm motor thana torque motor - it likes smaller props.

[Brushless55]

sweet, that's fast..