Darin's Raptor P-Spec Rigger Build

[Darin Jordan]

I thought some here would like to see one of Brian's Raptor P-Spec riggers being assembled, so here we go.

I'm going to keep this kind of shorter... mostly just pics and quick descriptions, but hopefully my take on putting one of these together helps someone out there.

Thus far, I have the motor mount drilled up and have installed the motor mounting blocks. I have decided that I may move the motor back another 1/2" to 1" to give me a little more room up front, but we'll see how things layout.

Rather than glue the booms in, I've decided to try making them adjustable, like the Nitro guys do, so I've fabbed a set of hardwood blocks with threaded inserts that the booms will bolt down to.

To solve the problem of how to seal the booms, I'm going to try using some of the Dubro pushrod seals. The hole in the aluminum mounting ring leaves plenty of room for adjustment, so I think this will work fine. Snip a little bit off the end of the rubber boot, and they fit nicely over the booms...

[kevakov]

There were two of these riggers at the Az FE event last weekend, where can they be purchased at? Do we contact Brian ? Looks like a great rigger. Let me know if they are still out there. Thanks.

[Ub Hauled]

yes, contact Brian Buaas, he has a list going...

[detox]

YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Darin !

[Steven Vaccaro]

Nice job figuring out what to seal the booms with!!

[Darin Jordan]

OK, I've done a little more tonight.

To prepare the booms to have screws through them where they will mount to the tub, I prepped them using a piece of inner and outter brass tubing, and put a piece of wooden dowl in the center just for extra measure.

These pieces are sized as follows:

Wooden Dowl = 1/4" O.D.
Inner Brass = 9/32" O.D.
Outter Brass = 13/32" O.D.

Each is cut to 3", so they will JUST come to the outter edge of the tub. If the booms shear, this way they'll shear outside the tub. Might have been a good idea to make them about 1" longer, but I think this should work.

After marking the center of the booms, I measured out from center 1.5" on either side. I marked up a small piece of dowl to use as a pusher stick to get the inner pieces located. This mark allows the end of the stick to go in right up to the center - 1.5" point. This will center the inner pieces. I used a piece of fuel tubing as a stopper to make it easier to work with once the epoxy starts flowing.

[Darin Jordan]

Once all the pieces were prepped and the brass parts cleaned up with scotch-brite, I mixed up some epoxy (FLAG Medium) and glued the dowls inside the inner piece of brass. I then put epoxy down into the booms with a long piece of dowl to get the epoxy down into the center. I partially slid the inner brass in place, put epoxy on it, then pushed it down into the center using the pusher stick.

After both of these were done, I epoxied on the outter brass pieces, lining them up with the marks I previously made.

Once these are dry, I'll locate and drill the holes for the mouting screws...

[Darin Jordan]

After the booms dried overnight, I transfered the holes from the mounting blocks to the brass tubing, being careful to make sure they were equal distance from the center of the booms.

I fabbed a drill jig that helps me center the drill on the tubing and guides it through. There are two holes in it, on for a 4-40 screw sized clearance hole, which is 1/8" in this case, and the other is the correct diameter to drill out a hole to run 1/8" ID tubing through, if I wanted to. I won't be using that in this case.

The base block that the boom is sitting on has a small V-Channel in it to help hold the tubing in place. I also used the drill bit in the first hole to help hold the rotational alignment while setting up to do the other hole.

Once the holes were drilled, I deburred and made sure the blocks bolted up, which they did... I felt like Norm Abrahm from "The Yankee Workshop"... They lined up perfectly the first try! ;)

[Darin Jordan]

After test fitting the boom assemblies to make sure everything would line up correctly, I epoxied them into place. I will go over the blocks with additional epoxy to seal them once they are securely in place.

[HOTWATER]

Nice job Darin! What motor and esc are you going to use to power it? What size Lipos?

[Darin Jordan]

For the P-Spec Hydro class at the 2009 NAMBA Nationals, the required motor and ESC are the UL1 setup...

However, I'm going to run the ProBoat motor in it here locally as well to see what I can do with that. ESC may be a Barracuda 80 or 125 for that setup.

Lipos will be something in the 4500mah size...I can JUST fit a 2S1P 4500 Elite 30C pack in front of the motor, and can put another over the tops of the booms... I may have some other options as well...

[HOTWATER]

Very cool! I am interested in how the rest of the build goes and how it will run between the two different setups...Thanks Darin!

[kevakov]

Is the adjustment of the sponsons left and right, or up and down? That set-up looks Hitec and New Wave !!!!

[detox]

Lipos will be something in the 4500mah size...I can JUST fit a 2S1P 4500 Elite 30C pack in front of the motor, and can put another over the tops of the booms... I may have some other options as well...

After doing some measuring I think this 4s1p Lipo will fit best and work best. It's size (138mm X 45mm X 32mm) will allow for some adjustable COG. This battery will also fit pefectly in the UL-1 (two wired parallel in the UL-1 would equal 8400mah) . Using my 15% Silver membership discount one battery will cost me roughly $205.00 plus shipping

http://www.maxamps.com/Lipo-4200-148-Flight-Pack.htm

or this one

http://www.maxamps.com/Lipo-5250-148-Pack.htm



............................

[Darin Jordan]

Alright... finally more progress...

I made some plywood backing plates for the boom seals.

I added some carbon fiber to the floor bottom around the stuffing tube.

Stuffing tube is brass with no liner for use with a .078 wiredrive. I built up the end into the Speedmaster strut.

I opened up the boom holes in the sponsons, got everything lined up, then epoxied them into place. Inside the ends of the booms I've epoxied some aluminum tubing so the drilled holes won't split them. I drilled up the holes to hold the booms on with a set of stainless still safety pins that I got from McClendon's (a local "have everything" hardware store).

[Darin Jordan]

Once everything was fitted, I finished up the painting, which I'm certain I'm going to have to redo after the Nationals, due to the problems I recently mentioned about painting and using a primer sealer... paint seems to peel right off. It'll do until after the big races... then I'll pull it down and redo it.

Then it was just a matter of assembling everything.

I put the ProBoat ESC just aft of the motor, and now have room for a 4S1P 4500mah pack (Elite) in front of the motor. I have a different setup that I'm going to try, however, which consists of two 4S1P 2200mah 35C Elite packs wired up in parallel. With this setup, I can fit one pack between the booms, and the other I can move around in the space in front of the motor... Leaves LOTs of room up front, and still gives mre 4400mah to work with, which should be plenty for a 1-mile race. I'll get some pics of that another time.

It's a little bit tight around the motor, but everything actually goes in pretty simply, and the ESC can be taken out without much of a hassle.

I've separated the radio box from the motor compartment with a carbon-fiber bulkhead. The radio wire for the ESC to the RX was handled by drilling an appropriate sized hole in the bulkhead, then temporarily removing the plug from a servo extension wire, sliding the wires through, then putting the connector back on and sealing the wires at the bulkhead with silicone. Works slick...

[Darin Jordan]

Here are some completed shots with the top on...


Also, here is an example of how to setup the turn-fin bracket.

[Darin Jordan]

Here is a shot of the batteries installed. You can see how they compare to a single 4500mah 4S pack.

Also shown is the radio box area, and you can see the turn-fin I'll be starting out with.

[Ub Hauled]

Darin, very nice work man...

[j.m.]

So. McClendon's hardware? That's pretty cool. My Dad's cousin lives up in Washington... Our name is McLendon.

[Darin Jordan]

So. McClendon's hardware? That's pretty cool. My Dad's cousin lives up in Washington... Our name is McLendon.

Yup... here is their website: http://www.mclendons.com/

[j.m.]

Cool! Thanks! :D There's a lot more McLendon's than I knew about then... {btw, i'm the fifth} [Jonathon Collins McLendon V]

Gorgeous boat btw. I was speechless when I saw the last few pictures.

[detox]

Nice touch on the sponsons...they appear to be reshaped on belt sander (more pointed and flat on sides) then reskinned using 1/64 ply.

Is that turnfin your design?


....

[Darin Jordan]

Nice touch on the sponsons...they appear to be reshaped on belt sander (more pointed and flat on sides) then reskinned using 1/64 ply.

Is that turnfin your design?


....


I did just that... I wanted to try something different with the sides from the originals. I reskinned them with 1/16" actually... not worried about weight... want it strong. I also added a different ride-pad surface.

The turn fin came with the kit, but I trimmed it down in some places.

[HOTWATER]

That thing is Killer Darin! Great job on everything! That thing looks fast just sitting there!!!

As far as paint goes, I used spray Kilz over top of two coats of sanding sealer on my little rigger (Avitar pic) then I used Krylon primer followed by Krylon paint (all spray bomb rattle cans). I have yet to have ANY of the paint peel off of anything from the hatch tape. I am a Painting Contractor and I use Kilz on alot of finicky stuff that paint would otherwise not stick to....Just a thought for you to try...

-Kent

[Darin Jordan]

I've heard from two friends that run this same setup and they have both had trouble with the allthread support on the turn fin bracket dragging in the water in the turns... I'm trying to find out more about their setups, but mine is currently 1.2" above the ride surfaces when on a setup board... I can't imagine water getting up that high at speed, but I'm going to look into it. If it needs to go up, I'll make a new threaded hole in the tub and then extend a bracket up off the end of the turn fin bracket.

[detox]

Thanks for your help Darin. My Raptor build has been on hold until now.


....................

[LiPo Power]

Nice work Darin!
I see you are using Pro Boat ESC, what is the part number of it please?
Thank You

[Darin Jordan]

Nice work Darin!
I see you are using Pro Boat ESC, what is the part number of it please?
Thank You

This is it right here: http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=dh-prb3309&cat=75

Be warned, however... it's quite a bit bigger and heavier than the equivalent AQ ESC. You have to lay it out just right to fit it all in there.

We'll see if it'll hold up to the Amps at this level... I'll have to push it to keep up with the UL1 powered boats...

[Darin Jordan]

DONE! I stripped the hull back down to bare fiberglass and started over. This is Krylon primer, with all Duplicolor paint and clear. I like this revision MUCH better!

Now just to tune and race!!

[Ub Hauled]

Looks great man, I like it a lot.

[HOTWATER]

Very nice Darin!! Yes.. the Krylon primer is the ticket!! Seems to bond very well...

I'll be very interested on how she runs! Beautiful!!

-Kent

[detox]

Awsome...

I here Brian made some changes to the sponsons in the newer kits by adding a different ride pad. I can see that you added a 1/16" thick strip of wood to your ride pads. Is your ride pad mod the same as Brian's version ?
..

[Darin Jordan]

Is your ride pad mod the same as Brian's version ?
..

I don't know... I haven't seen the the revised sponsons. I do know he's making them out of fiberglass now, as opposed to wood over foam build-up.

[charlotte515]

I don't know... I haven't seen the the revised sponsons. I do know he's making them out of fiberglass now, as opposed to wood over foam build-up.

Nice thread but where's the ending? How does it handle and mph?

[raptor347]

I'm building up a new set of sponsons for Darin. He had an UGLY wreck at the gas/nitro nats. The boats are fast. The front runners in our club are running 55-60. the fastest boats are in the mid 60's. The extra speed is all in the prop and tuning.

The current boats are all composite. Tub, sponsons, ride pad.

Here are a couple pics. One is the kit form of the boat, the other is my personal red/white heat race boat.

[Darin Jordan]

NASTY Crash... but you should've seen the other guy... His boat was but in half...

My fault... I gave him a brand new UL1 motor and ESC to make up for it... now his boat is freaking FAST!!! One of Brian's older N2-style rigger designs...

The purple boat is John Morana's boat, which is sister boat to Brian's Red/White one... again, mid-60s... handles great as well...

[charlotte515]

I'm building up a new set of sponsons for Darin. He had an UGLY wreck at the gas/nitro nats. The boats are fast. The front runners in our club are running 55-60. the fastest boats are in the mid 60's. The extra speed is all in the prop and tuning.

The current boats are all composite. Tub, sponsons, ride pad.

Here are a couple pics. One is the kit form of the boat, the other is my personal red/white heat race boat.

How much for the kit and do you offer it ARTR with hardware installed?

[txboatpilot]

Darin, sorry to hear about the carnage! Hopefully it wont be to hard to fix..

Very nice riggers!!

[Darin Jordan]

OK... Finally time to get this fixed... All torn down, and ready to strip the paint...Oh the joy!

[RandyatBBY]

Darin Hi.

I know you had problems with the Dupla colors when you used it. But I came up with a setup that has been working great for me. I have been using the primer and the white for my base, then I paint the colors in house of color or Dupont top coat clear coat paints. I have had real good luck with no pull ups when taping down. If you want more info I can post or I can call you.

[Darin Jordan]

Thanks Randy... That's one of my main concerns... I'm thinking of going to full automotive paint, at least on the tub, since it's going to be just bright white. I'm a little tired of repainting this thing, so any help to make sure the paint doesn't peel would be appreciated...

[RandyatBBY]

Thanks Randy... That's one of my main concerns... I'm thinking of going to full automotive paint, at least on the tub, since it's going to be just bright white. I'm a little tired of repainting this thing, so any help to make sure the paint doesn't peel would be appreciated...

I can call you if you want give me a # then you can tell the story to every one. I have to work a little.

[detox]

Here's my 2 cents worth. If your stuck on using automotive paints SummitRacing's Urethane paint is probably the most affordable way to go if your painting more than one hull. Hardener has a limited shelf life once opened.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Price-Range/20-50/?keyword=urethane+paint

Another Automotive type paint for painting just one hull I would use Klasscoat. You can buy it in small amounts.
http://klasskote.com/index.html

Most simple and affordable method is use Krylon primer and paint. This combo will not peel.


...

[Cat-Boi]

if you want just white, send it to me prepped and primed...I have some white to shoot on some other parts.

[sailr]

Darin,

Cat-Boi's paint work is AWESOME! You couldn't go wrong sending him your boat for painting!


if you want just white, send it to me prepped and primed...I have some white to shoot on some other parts.

[Cat-Boi]

strip it, sand it with 220, prime with rustoleum grey primer (automotive in can)., let dry a few days and send it on over, I will shoot it with the paint I already have. no charge other than shipping back to you. like I said I have other parts to shoot in the same color.

[HOTWATER]

Here's my 2 cents worth. If your stuck on using automotive paints SummitRacing's Urethane paint is probably the most affordable way to go if your painting more than one hull. Hardener has a limited shelf life once opened.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Price-Range/20-50/?keyword=urethane+paint

Another Automotive type paint for painting just one hull I would use Klasscoat. You can buy it in small amounts.
http://klasskote.com/index.html

Most simple and affordable method is use Krylon primer and paint. This combo will not peel.


...


...Ditto... Also Spraymax 2K Urethane Aerosol Clear Coat over top of the Krylon color of choice...:thumbup1: The rigger in my avatar has seen tape off and on it many times and not one speck of paint has EVER come off with the tape!!! I use Prather tape just in case you were wondering...

Check it out...
http://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_2_part_2k_aerosol.cfm

-Kent

[Littlescreamers]

Darin,

I would like to show you a place to get your battery's at a great price. I am not with this company other then designing a motor for them. But there battery's have been getting great reviews and the savings is to good to pass. Check them out and if you like you can go to the flying RCG website and do a search on them. They are Awesome!

An example

http://www.xtremepowersystems.net/proddetail.php?prod=XPS5000-4S1P

Scott

[Littlescreamers]

I see your using the sealed ones,

I found this one. XPS Pro 5000mAh 2S1P 30c/50c HC Lipo pack $70

http://www.xtremepowersystems.net/proddetail.php?prod=XPS5000-2S1P-HC

Scott

[RandyatBBY]

Darin when you finish stripping the boat and have it dry and that is the most important part to get all the fluids off and clean with Lacquer thinner, then let it dry. Sand with 120 wet/dry paper, I always do this step dry. Then before I spray with primer (I use Dupla -color primer) I clean with Lacquer thinner again and let dry. At this point I use 3M Acry-green spot puddy to fill and imperfections. It is real important to let the puddy dry for several hours before sanding depending no how thick it is. then apply more coats of primer until the base is what you want to put on the base paint. When you get to this point I will tell you more. I an going to be painting a rigger for a customer and I have decided to do more in depth threads on the procedure in my build too.

[Darin Jordan]

Made some more progress...

First, I stripped the tub with "Citristrip" (http://www.citristrip.com/). Stuff works GREAT on most of the paint I've tried it on.

Once I washed down the hull with warm soapy water and dried, I used Krylon grey primer... two coats, wetsanding with 400 between coats, wiping down afterwards with mineral spirits. Then I used a coat of white Duplicolor primer, let it dry, then wetsanded with 600...

After cleaning everything up, I decided to test two different paints... I sprayed the hatch cover with white Krylon, and used white Rustoleum "Professional Industrial Strength Enamal"... After letting both dry completely, I did the tape test... Both passed with flying colors! I think it's been skipped steps in the prep that have been the issue... Bottom line... SAND BETWEEN COATS! Wetsanding seems to work well...

[Darin Jordan]

With the paint done... time to fit the sponsons... I used the old ones as patterns to locate the holes by cutting the inside of the sponsons off... Not perfect matches, so I oversized the holes by one drill size.

I decided to setup a jig so I could get this as close as possible. Everything is now glued and setting up. Hopefully tomorrow, when I pull this apart, everything will have setup in the correct location...

As you can tell... I found a good use for some of the award strips I've won this season... ;) Some of the others went to making adjustment shims for the booms... :thumbup:

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Jordan, you need to trade me a boat. :buttrock:

I wouldn't change a thing, I'd just race the crud out of it lol you build a good solid raceboat, its impressive to see you run, your stuff is together..

At the same time, iI think you'd get tons of humor and enjoyment out of one of mine lol
You'd be suprised at what I get away with

Darrin, that riggerjig is nuts lol.. I'm in love with it!
Almost as cute as Randy's new dog! I'm tellin' ya Randy picked up an English Bulldog that I've ordained team mascott.. GOOD lookin' pup!!!

[Darin Jordan]

You'd be suprised at what I get away with



My Dad used to be a plane captain in the U.S. Navy back in the early 50's and he said the same thing about the planes they flew back then!! "You wouldn't believe the condition of some of the planes we flew..."... :unsure: :biggrin:

Thanks for the compliments, Bill... Just trying to get it straight again. I usually have to go to these more elaborate measures when trying to short cut things cause issues in the first place! We'll see if this works to get the sponsons mounted back where the first set were... Will be nice if it works out.

[highndry]

I used Dupli Color engine paint on my Raptor and it is bullet ( tape) - proof. Only neg is limited color choice.

[precisionboatbuilder]

Darin, she looks great man! great repair also , sorry to see that beauty crashed.. I have your unchanged race prepped UL1 here(red and silver) havent run her yet as im waiting on the bulldog powersupply. My first FE boat!!!!!!!! Glad it was built by you, seems you know what ur doing:rockon2:. Im a gas boat guy and this is my first venture into this hobby. I enjoy ur build threads and your tallent. Nice job man!!!:bowdown:

[AZpdljumper]

Another Clean build. But not an Oberto logo anywhere. Can't wait to see it run.

[RandyatBBY]

Jordan,

Darrin, that riggerjig is nuts lol.. I'm in love with it!
Almost as cute as Randy's new dog! I'm tellin' ya Randy picked up an English Bulldog that I've ordained team mascott.. GOOD lookin' pup!!!

This is my buddy and most of the time he is asleep.
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3350/img2259.jpg (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/img2259.jpg/)

[RandyatBBY]

I used Dupli Color engine paint on my Raptor and it is bullet ( tape) - proof. Only neg is limited color choice.After the Dupli color Primer you can use any Base coat paint over it ahd have the colors you need or want. I use all the House Of Color Base coat with a dupont corma color clear over the top.
Two samples ples below.
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9831/1020560.jpg

[Darin Jordan]

Release the hull from the jig today, and everything lined up great. Added a little more epoxy around the brass boom inserts/holders, and also glued on the ply caps for the rear of the sponsons... (When Brian supplies these to customers, they are completed here... I think he also uses G10 or Carbon Fiber for this part... I'm just using some 1/32" ply...) I also installed the inserts for the turn-fin mount.

Once everything is dry, I'll just need to drill-up the holes in the booms to secure the sponsons, and then paint them.

[RandyatBBY]

...Ditto... Also Spraymax 2K Urethane Aerosol Clear Coat over top of the Krylon color of choice...:thumbup1: The rigger in my avatar has seen tape off and on it many times and not one speck of paint has EVER come off with the tape!!! I use Prather tape just in case you were wondering...

Check it out...
http://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_2_part_2k_aerosol.cfm

-Kent

This clear is interesting I wa going to use the Dupli color next time after I ran out of the Dupont Croma color But I might want to try this, thanks for the link.

[HOTWATER]

Wow Randy...that was really friggin' weird! I just checked on your post here (email thread replied to me) and right before reading this, I was JUST looking at the 2K site and thinking about using that over Dupli color!!!:rofl:

I think that 2K stuff is the way to go, ecspecially if you don't have all of that spray equipment.

-Kent :beerchug:

[RandyatBBY]

Wow Randy...that was really friggin' weird! I just checked on your post here (email thread replied to me) and right before reading this, I was JUST looking at the 2K site and thinking about using that over Dupli color!!!:rofl:

I think that 2K stuff is the way to go, ecspecially if you don't have all of that spray equipment.

-Kent :beerchug:

If it works like the paint I now buy and it cost me allmost $500. for a gallon and 1/2 it would be great. Then I am only spending a little, Evan if it was just for one boat a can.

[HOTWATER]

Wow.....gulp....$500 for a gallon and a 1/2?!! Holy sh#@!!! Well, I guess you do build quite a bit...

I wonder if 1 can of the 2K is enough to do 1 rigger?

-Kent

[Darin Jordan]

Have the sponsons painted now.

Setup another jig to get everything in line so I can drill up the sponson mounting. Going to be adjustable so I can change the width an inch on either side...

[detox]

Darin,
I just purchased some Graphite tubing to make my #13 Raptor wood sponsons wider/adjustable. This .281" OD diameter tubing slides into my Raptors .3750 OD (.285" ID) stock tubing. I think Brian's LATEST kits have telescopic booms for easy sponson adjustment or replacement. See picture

Look Here:http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/974?osCsid=bfa76c5fa09332381277eb921d6eb31c

...

[sailr]

Looking awesome Darin! Can't wait for the videos!!


Have the sponsons painted now.

Setup another jig to get everything in line so I can drill up the sponson mounting. Going to be adjustable so I can change the width an inch on either side...

[Darin Jordan]

Got the sponson mounts drilled up tonight and bolts installed. Once I get the turn fin fitted again, I'll finalize this stage and work on getting the sponsons adjusted properely. They are pretty close right now.

I used a homemade jig to drill up the holes. Need some longer drill bits. Holes are 1/8" with 4-40 stainless hardware.

I temporarily installed the ride pad so I could begin setting up the sponson angles.

The setup/build board I've made here works great. Having a sound working surface is really necessary. The temp jigging I built was invaluable. Made for a nice clean assembly. Everything came out nice and straight...

[detox]

I noticed the turnfin bar is no longer used (threaded bar from turnfin to hull). Or is it?


...

[Darin Jordan]

I noticed the turnfin bar is no longer used (threaded bar from turnfin to hull). Or is it?


...

Just haven't gotten that far yet... ;) It's coming...

[detox]

Sorry Darin, I was refering to the kit in picture that Brian built for one of his customers.
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=11423&highlight=raptor+rigger

[Darin Jordan]

Sorry Darin, I was refering to the kit in picture that Brian built for one of his customers.
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=11423&highlight=raptor+rigger

I'm not sure about that. Last I saw, he was still using them on all of his. Might just be an early stage picture...

[raptor347]

Sorry Darin, I was refering to the kit in picture that Brian built for one of his customers.
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=11423&highlight=raptor+rigger

Material change on the turnfin bracket. Redesign on the turn fin (shorter bracket). It doesn't need the brace anymore.

[Darin Jordan]

The turnfin mount and brace have been reworked a bit from the original installation and are now reinstalled...

[Darin Jordan]

Motor mount, strut, rudder, and steering servo are all reinstalled.

I used to have the brass stuffing tube running the full length to the strut, but I've decided to trim it just out of the hull, and leave the .078" wire open to the strut. We'll see how that works out. Will be a little bit difficult to install the driveshaft once the ridepad is installed, but I think it can be done with a little finese.

I built a brass reducer for the nose of the strut to handle the .078 wire...

[Darin Jordan]

Loctite dried on the brass reducer for the strut, so I test fit the wiredrive and it seems to fit nicely. I'm still a little skeptical that it'll hold up and work properly without full-length support, but we'll see.

Got the motor and the electronics reinstalled. Going to stick with the stock ProBoat ESC for now, mostly because it works, I have it, the boat is already setup for it, and I want to see how effective it can be. There is a weight penalty, as it weighs 6.8oz all by itself, but the boat balances well with it where it's located. We'll see how well it holds up. I used this setup for the first couple of heats with it and it seemed to work just fine powering the ProBoat BJ26 motor that was in the boat. The ESC has some closed cell foam-rubber ramp-shaped pads on the bottom of it, to angle it up and over the stuffing tube.

I used the stock length phase wires, and made some heavy gauge extensions for the battery wires. It's all a tight fit, but fits. Were I to build this again, I'd locate the motor about 3/4" or so aft, just to give a little more room for the batteries. As it is, I have 6.1" (~155mm) of battery length room, and about 1.5" of height. Width isn't an issue. Luckily, there are several pack options available.

[Darin Jordan]

Just have to fab a new turn fin, set the boom heights, and then seal the boom seals in place. Ride pad gets taped on, just like the hatch... I was going to glue it in place, but I think I'll wait to figure out what's going to happen with the driveline configuration first. Plus, I think I'll need to have it removed in order to get the driveline into the boat, as the leading end of the wire needs to be guilded into the stuffing tube.

[Darin Jordan]

Just weighed the hull... 3.35lbs without batteries... 4.9lbs with 4S1P Elite 30C 4500mah pack. Not too bad, especially knowing that I can shave another 7oz or so just by switching to a lighter ESC... like a B80 or Hydra 120...

The booms on this boat are a tad heavy as well, as I've epoxied aluminum tubing inside the sections that have bolts going through them, and sleeved them with brass... Durable, but I may be able to fab a new set that are an ounce or two lighter... Not sure that will be necessary, but it's an option.

[AndyKunz]

Nice pix, Darin. I hope it runs as nice as it looks. P-Spec should be a "standard" class instead of the red-headed stepchild.

Andy

[detox]

That is one cool looking rigger Darin...especially since you widened the sponsons. I hope it does well against the new Zippkits FE rigger.


...

[ncornacchi]

Excellent build Darrin! I love the strut work you've done with reducer...Looks like you're going to put your .078" to the test on this one! Do you have any tricks where the wiredrive exits the stuffing tube at the motor side to keep water from weeping in? I've been experimenting with bushings and drilled plastic inserts in the stuffing tube, but trying to peek at this masterfull build..

[Darin Jordan]

Do you have any tricks where the wiredrive exits the stuffing tube at the motor side to keep water from weeping in? .

I use a piece of silicone tubing inside the boat on the end of the stuffing tube. If you look carefully enough, you can find it that fits the wire well... Seems to stay dry... I'll try to get a picture of how mine is setup...

I'm also thinking of adding a oiler.. or at least a port to oil the shaft with...

[peells]

Nice work!!! very clean and nice use of the turn rod boots for sponson seals looks great that thing is going to be a very low flying aircraft and it looks sharp!! you always do such a nice job with your boats my hat is off to you (if I wore one).

[Darin Jordan]

very clean and nice use of the turn rod boots for sponson seals looks great

Thanks for the compliments.

I'm going away from the push-rod seals, and going to silicone on some nylon washers once the booms are set instead... The nylon washers give a cleaner look, are easier to install, and still allow full adjustment. The push-rod seals didn't allow for full adjustment of the booms.

[detox]

Good thing I have not started building my Raptor rigger. It seems that the longer I wait the more new tricks and better ways of building it are exposed. I recently purchased the 3/8" nylon washers along with some Black 3/8" fiber washers.

Darin, Why are you still using the antenna. Didn't antennas go away when the 2.4 systems became popular? Wouldn't the antenna cause more wind drag?


...

[Darin Jordan]

Darin, Why are you still using the antenna.

The only 2.4 system that doesn't use an antenna is the Tactic... The Spektrum actually has two... a primary and secondary... the Primary is in the tube... the secondary is coiled up in the tub...

I still use it because it needs to be there! ;)

[detox]

The only 2.4 system that doesn't use an antenna is the Tactic... The Spektrum actually has two... a primary and secondary... the Primary is in the tube... the secondary is coiled up in the tub...

I still use it because it needs to be there! ;)

I did not know that.

FYI my Tactic is not glitch free...especially going around turn 3 and 4. I cannot send my UL-1 out too far.:confused2:


...

[detox]

Darin,
Just started my Raptor Rigger build in jig. Sponson inside spread is 14" with 1/16" toe in. The 3/8" carbon tubes will be glued to first generation wood sponsons (no telescoping). MDF blocks were measured, cut, squared, then glued to old setup board before clamping on sponsons. I will glue more MDF blocks to setup board to hold the tub centered in jig before attaching tub to booms. I will post more pictures at a later date in a new tread.

[Darin Jordan]

Tinkered for a few minutes tonight starting to make a couple of turn fin options for the Raptor...

I was going to make a JAE .21 fin, but DAMN, those things are WAY too big in my opinion...

Found another pattern that I decided to try out. I am building two... one with two bends toward the bottom, and one with a single bend up near the top... Will try them both and see which works best...

Material is 7075-T6, .060 if I recall correctly... I cut it with my large band saw, and bent it using my vice and a wooden block and hammer... One of these days, I'm going to build a fixture that can do these bends in my 20-ton hydraulic press... but for now, this will do.

All that's left is to sharpen the outside edge, and clean them up.

[domwilson]

Looks real good as always. Keep us posted on how it turns out.

[peells]

A box and pan brake is what you need to have but I don't have one either so I use a clamp and blocks too! You know Daren you should consider designing your own it would probably work better anyway. my son has a Renigade Rigger and the turn fin sort of has a curved bend near the tip about 1/2" and toward the inside so get to creating it just helps it stick in the water anyway who knows you might just come up with a winner!

[Darin Jordan]

Uh-Oh... I decided to finally, literally for the first time, pull out my bench mounted buffer and see how it would work out to polish up these things...

Hmmmmmmm.... that was easy! My boats will never be the same!!

Finished up the straight angled fin... Will finish up the bent fin tomorrow....

[peells]

Yea my son bought me a little dremmel tool a couple of years ago for my birthday and I have been polishing my aluminum parts as well check out my build on the "Lynx(bobkat's Evil twin)" in the forum I got polish crazy.

[Darin Jordan]

Wrapped it up tonight!!

Got the second turn fin polished... I'll try the bent one first...

A couple of days ago, I sealed the booms to the hull by using some thin nylon washers from the local hardware store with the correct ID... Clear silicone was applied to the washers and they were pressed up against the tub and left to dry. I then applied some silicone to the inside of the tub around the boom tubes, just to be safe... Turned out nice and clean, but still allows JUST enough movement to allow for modest boom adjustments, if needed...

[Darin Jordan]

Here are some shots of the finished product...

The cells shown are just for mockup, but are two 3300 2S packs, so there is plenty of room for cells... I'm going to add some foam blocks for floatation up between the booms and in the nose... and anywhere else that has extra space.

I anticipate that, at some point, I'll be replacing the ProBoat ESC with something smaller, in which case it will likely go up in the nose somewhere...

Total weight of the hull as shown, with batteries, is 4lbs 3oz. I'm calling that excellent... especially knowing that this ESC weighs about 8oz on it's own, and I won't need 6600 mah worth of cells... I LOVE IT!!

Only thing left to do is get some good cells and get some props prepped...

Thanks for following along with this re-build. Hopefully some of the pictures and info I provided will help others to get inspired and to build up their boats...

[peells]

Nice Work as always!!! now go get a first place somewhere you deserve it!!

[JimClark]

Boy that looks like is going to be difficult to get pictures of great looking boat but it is gonna be fast.
Jim

[Ub Hauled]

Based on the assumption that all the sponsons will be in the same place, where do you think optimal CG is?
BTW, she looks great, as told to you many times b4

[Fluid]

I'm going to add some foam blocks for floatation up between the booms and in the nose... and anywhere else that has extra space.

You will need ~120 cubic inches of floatation to keep the rigger on the surface if the hull breaches - that's equivalent to about 20" of small pool noodle. That volume includes both sponsons - just hope one doesn't break off! Very nice work Darin....maybe Brian will send mine some day.




./

[detox]

Great job Darin. I have been following this tread for a while now and it has been very helpful. I am sure I will look back at it again if I ever build a 2nd Raptor.

Seperating and sealing off receiver/servo compartment will add extra flotation.


...

[daggersfl]

Does Brian have a website where you purchase these riggers? How much? Thx

[bonewar]

Nice work Darin,

Always a pleasure to watch your work.
You are a true craftsman sir.
Thanks for sharing your builds with us.

BONEWAR :rockon2:

[Darin Jordan]

Does Brian have a website where you purchase these riggers? How much? Thx

I don't think he does, but you can contact him through PM here on this site: Raptor347 is his UID...

Thanks for the compliments guys... I try!

Oh, and Detox... the radio compartment is sealed off from the rest with a piece of .020" G10 nicely fit...

[Darin Jordan]

FINALLY got a chance to race the Raptor this weekend. Did OK considering it was fresh off the bench. Lost a wiredrive in the first heat, likely do to motor alignment issues. I think I need to fab a more rigid motor mount plate, as the motor flexes it slightly.

Have a few handling issues to tune out of it, which is to be expected, but overall it's going to be a good ride. Looking forward to getting used to driving it and really getting competitive.

Here is an action shot that Jerry Dunlap took this weekend.

[j.m.]

That is such an ugly boat, good thing it's fast!! :P

Jon

[Ctonez]

Darin, are you gonna race in Granite Falls this Sunday?
My rebuilt Larry Kirby Busch Whacker is READY!
...well at least ready to hit the water. It'll need surely need some tweaking, and the driver needs to get used to it.

[Darin Jordan]

Darin, are you gonna race in Granite Falls this Sunday?
My rebuilt Larry Kirby Busch Whacker is READY!
...well at least ready to hit the water. It'll need surely need some tweaking, and the driver needs to get used to it.

That's my plan... Wife still holds the right to trump those plans, as it's been two weekends in a row at this point, but I think I'll get the hall pass for this one.

Don't worry... mine needs a bunch of tweaking still as well... That's why we do this though, right!?? ;)

[detox]

Darin, I ended up using the original plate that came with my Raptor kit. It is lighter than the 1/8" G10 i was using plus I think it disipates heat lots better (cooling holes). I used regular JB Weld to attach it to tub...very strong bond, but can be broken free if not happy with location.

[Darin Jordan]

Darin, I ended up using the original plate that came with my Raptor kit. It is lighter than the 1/8" G10 i was using plus I think it disipates heat lots better (cooling holes). I used regular JB Weld to attach it to tub...very strong bond, but can be broken free if not happy with location.

Yah... I got mine before they were kits, so I fabbed my own mount... It's all good, just used too thin of aluminum to do it. Will use the existing one as a pattern for a new one.

Drove OK for the first time out, but need to get the setup a little better to make it less "twitchy"... Getting the right prop (now at the bottom of the south Twin Lake... :doh: ) will be a good step forward.

[detox]

My Hull is not twitchy at all using the GrimRacer turnfin. Heck I can even turn left at high speeds, but not sharp.

[Darin Jordan]

After several years of abuse, many new boom tubes, and countless "repaints"... Good 'Ol Raptor #4 has been resurrected once again... Just in time to compete at the 2014 NAMBA Nitro/Gas Nats this coming weekend at Twin Lakes in Marysville.

This time around, I updated the sizing on the brass inserts in the sponsons to allow for a different sized boom tube. Necked down the 3/8" ID two sizes to fit over the pultruded carbon tubing I have here. In addition, however, I ran a colored fiberglass rod over the outside of the carbon, making it not only more rigid, but also much stronger. Hopefully this will hold up a little better, and it already appears to be easier to repair, if needed. Probably should have made a second set of booms up, just in case.

Also new are a set of rear sponsons to replace the single ski. Fab'd these up from some templates I made from a set of sponsons Brian had ready to attach in his shop. Helps to know where the "tree grows" for this kind of thing.

Even through on a quick (VERY quick) coat of white paint on the hull to cover up all the spots where the white paint had pulled off with the tape. I'm certain it'll happen again. If the boat survives the weekend, and one I have my other Raptor finished, I'll pull this one apart and give it a proper "real" paint job. Will probably fab a new set of front sponsons at that time as well.

Power is going to be a Dynamite/Pro Boat 1800KV motor with a Castle ICE 200 ESC.

I'll try to get some race pics and whatever else I can must from the weekend.

[Darin Jordan]

A couple more shots with it REALLY ready (turn fin installed, power system, etc...)

[larryrose11]

Darin,
Im curious why you took off the ski and replaced them with rear sponsons. Care to enlighten me?

[Darin Jordan]

Darin,
Im curious why you took off the ski and replaced them with rear sponsons. Care to enlighten me?

I'm not sure I can explain this well enough technically to make any sense, but the basic deal is this:

1) I've seen Brian's latest evolution of Raptors in action, all of which have rear sponsons, and if you've seen them, you'd want them.
2) Monkey-See, Monkey-Do... :w00t:

Seriously,though... I think these will help make the boat less prone to "stuffing", or blowing out the rear end, and I also think they help make it more consistent and less "twitchy"...

I guess we'll find out this weekend....

[ray schrauwen]

Nice build Darin. Brian is a smart cookie, he helped me very much at the Nats, super nice guy too.

[Darin Jordan]

Nice build Darin. Brian is a smart cookie, he helped me very much at the Nats, super nice guy too.

Yes he is... Can KIND of drive a little as well! :)

[detox]

What batteries are you using? Battery fit can be a problem with this hull. Can 5000mah size packs be used?

[RaceMechaniX]

1800kv? You had better sneak an AQ2030 in there and repaint in Proboat colors. Brian will likely lap the field anyways. Just having a little fun.

TG

[Fluid]

Heck, just set the timing at 25 degrees and screw on a 2018...



.

[Darin Jordan]

1800kv? You had better sneak an AQ2030 in there and repaint in Proboat colors. Brian will likely lap the field anyways. Just having a little fun.

TG

I have no dillusions of trying to compete with Brian... Been there, tried that... :doh:

However... as far as the AQ2030 goes... I don't think I've ever tested an AQ 2030 that tested over 1900KV... Certainly none are anywhere near the 2030 rating... The last three I bench tested were all right at 1875KV...

The most recent DYN 1800KV motors (12-awg power leads, etc) bench test at 1880KV, and only pull 1.39A or so... The AQ's Idle Current is around 2.79A...

I ran the 1800 last season turning either a 1918 or 2018 prop (depending on how fast I felt I needed to go), and Brian was the only boat I couldn't out-run... and even there, it wasn't raw speed that gave him the advantage. 12-turns... yeah... My Temps were never over 110-degrees...

I'm going to be doing some data gathering on Friday during open water, using my OPC with the 1800 mounted up top, to see how it directly compares to the AQ option. If it goes as I suspect, there may be a blue motor on top of the Lawless for P-Ltd OPC come Sunday...

[Darin Jordan]

Heck, just set the timing at 25 degrees and screw on a 2018...

Jay... I actually ran the 1800 last season, using a 1918 or 2018, depending on how fast I thought I needed to go... Timing was set at 5-degrees, however... :)

[Darin Jordan]

What batteries are you using? Battery fit can be a problem with this hull. Can 5000mah size packs be used?

I am currently using a pair of Dinogy 6000 mAh 2S packs in series, just because I have them available. I usually run Thunder Power 5000 mAh pack. They have to be the soft-sided packs though, as the ROAR legal hard case packs are too tall.

I run a Castle ESC, stood up on it's side along the right side of the battery area, and lay the battery in along-side. Tight, but everything fits without being "snug"...

[ray schrauwen]

Darin, you are a wealth of information that I can not thank you enough for. Your testing and knowledge of both the AQ and PB motors is extremely appreciated!

I may be selling some AQ motors soon....

Where to buy the 1800kv PB motor with the new leads???? I'm worried if I buy one it will be old stock... Should I go OSE, Horizon hobby?? Is there a part # that says it's a new version??
That is a lot of difference in idle current!

[Darin Jordan]

Darin, you are a wealth of information that I can not thank you enough for. Your testing and knowledge of both the AQ and PB motors is extremely appreciated!

I may be selling some AQ motors soon....

Where to buy the 1800kv PB motor with the new leads???? I'm worried if I buy one it will be old stock... Should I go OSE, Horizon hobby?? Is there a part # that says it's a new version??
That is a lot of difference in idle current!

Don't sell anything just yet... See my response in your other thread...

Bottom Line: PB has decided to discontinue this line of motors... both the 1500 and 1800 versions. They are changing manufacturers and going with a different motor.

[ray schrauwen]

I hear you Darin, thanks a bunch.

[detox]

I am currently using a pair of Dinogy 6000 mAh 2S packs in series, just because I have them available. I usually run Thunder Power 5000 mAh pack. They have to be the soft-sided packs though, as the ROAR legal hard case packs are too tall.

I run a Castle ESC, stood up on it's side along the right side of the battery area, and lay the battery in along-side. Tight, but everything fits without being "snug"...

Thank you. I am going to rebuild my Raptor for better battery fit. I also have the fiberglass front sponsons to replace wooden ones.