Andy & Paddy

[egneg]

I am now the proud owner of a H&M excess II. I know you 2 have extensive experience with this hull and am in need of setup advice. It came with rudder, strut. and a 0.062 wire drive. Is the wire drive ok? I was thinking a feigao 6xl on 4s1p and a V940/3 prop. At what depth should the strut be set? Any help would be appreciated.

[Flying Scotsman]

I am now the proud owner of a H&M excess II. I know you 2 have extensive experience with this hull and am in need of setup advice. It came with rudder, strut. and a 0.062 wire drive. Is the wire drive ok? I was thinking a feigao 6xl on 4s1p and a V940/3 prop. At what depth should the strut be set? Any help would be appreciated.
Christ no, those Lads will screw your setup on any giiven day
:tongue_smilie:

Douggie

[Xzessperated]

I am now the proud owner of a H&M excess II. I know you 2 have extensive experience with this hull and am in need of setup advice. It came with rudder, strut. and a 0.062 wire drive. Is the wire drive ok? I was thinking a feigao 6xl on 4s1p and a V940/3 prop. At what depth should the strut be set? Any help would be appreciated.

Chuck,
Congratulations.
Andy has used wire drives but not on his Xzess 2. He would be able to give you his opinion if we can ever get him back on OSE again. He is in tears at the news of Douggie leaving (me too).

Here are some setups I used with a 6xl.

4s PolyQuest LiPo, Feigao 6xl, Octura X640 = 96 kph
4s PolyQuest LiPo, Feigao 6xl, Octura X642 = 104 kph

The strut depth is at 20mm

With the 4s PolyQuest LiPo, Feigao 6xl, Octura X642 = 104 kph setup I had a lot of 140 amps spikes on the Eagle Tree graph so make sure you put a good esc in the boat.

I never had much luck getting V series props to work. Both my Xzess 2 hulls throw the tail out of the water (something I called Shakiras a$$) and thus they never reach their full speed potential on V series props. Andy is working some magic on a prop for me to try soon.

Keep us posted on how it goes.

Douggie,
I am :crying:

[Simon.O.]

I am keen to see if the .062 wire is up to the task.
I really hope it is so that Chuck's boat is good to go, and for me as I have spec'd a 062 wire into the 4S rigger that is one the bench at the moment.
I can go for a bigger wire or at worst a flex cable if needed, but I really do not want to.

[egneg]

I am keen to see if the .062 wire is up to the task.
I really hope it is so that Chuck's boat is good to go, and for me as I have spec'd a 062 wire into the 4S rigger that is one the bench at the moment.
I can go for a bigger wire or at worst a flex cable if needed, but I really do not want to.

Apparently the wire drive worked but I have no way of finding out what setup was in the boat. Although it does have a 3/16 prop shaft the motor mount was taken out. It does have water cooling installed and the hardware/servo is well setup.

Paddy - thanks for the strut measurement. The 6xl is a fairly hot setup would a 7xl keep the amps down?

[Xzessperated]

Apparently the wire drive worked but I have no way of finding out what setup was in the boat. Although it does have a 3/16 prop shaft the motor mount was taken out. It does have water cooling installed and the hardware/servo is well setup.

Paddy - thanks for the strut measurement. The 6xl is a fairly hot setup would a 7xl keep the amps down?

The 7xl would be a better motor for what you want I think Chuck. Andy ran a 7xl (Simon has it now) in his old Xzess 2 (I have that now) and he said he could run 65mph for 2 minutes and everything was ok. He said he gave it hell and it took it on the chin. There is a video of his Xzess on You Tube running the 7xl. I will find it if you want.

[egneg]

Thanks Paddy but I found the video from when he had it posted in the swap shop. It looked great and turned on a dime.

Back then I asked Andy about esc's for this hull and he suggested a etti 150.

[Xzessperated]

Thanks Paddy but I found the video from when he had it posted in the swap shop. It looked great and turned on a dime.

This is why the thread is titled to you guys.

You will be very happy with this little boat Chuck. I am interested in how the wire drive works for you.

[egneg]

As this is my first experience with a wire drive I have a question about the gap between the drive dog and strut (if any)? Also would a teflon washer be a good idea? I know that a cable needs the gap but there should not be any compression with wire drive.

[andym]

The compression on the wire is minimal and is caused by the wobble in the wire not compression as such. My Whiplash sport 20 uses a wire drive and I have a .5mm gap no washer and plenty of grease. It runs great and dry. That v940/3 will be to big for a 6xl and will push your packs and that motor way to hard , go for the 7xl and have fun. I used a CC 240 esc in mine and loved it. I now use the CC 240 in all my 4s boats. You will find that a little bit of tip cup will get rid of some of the lift and help stop the hop. 18mm - 20mm seems to be the go with the strut depth and a small Taipan turn fin was the best I tried and I tried alot.
Cheers

[egneg]

:help:

I need help! I am trying to figure out the best layout to get things to fit. I plan to use an Aveox 36/30/1.5 motor, Turnigy plush 100 amp esc, 2 x 2s1p lipos. The best I could come up with to get things to fit (using the existing wire drive) was motor about mid section in the tub, esc in front about even with the rear wing, and lipos on top of the esc going into the nose. The CG is about even with the most rear top section of the sponsons. I may get the motor back a bit more if I cut the existing tube for the water outlet and relocate it but I won't gain much and keep the wire straight. If either of you have some pics of your lay out of this boat I would be forever grateful.

Chuck

[Xzessperated]

:help:

I need help! I am trying to figure out the best layout to get things to fit. I plan to use an Aveox 36/30/1.5 motor, Turnigy plush 100 amp esc, 2 x 2s1p lipos. The best I could come up with to get things to fit (using the existing wire drive) was motor about mid section in the tub, esc in front about even with the rear wing, and lipos on top of the esc going into the nose. The CG is about even with the most rear top section of the sponsons. I may get the motor back a bit more if I cut the existing tube for the water outlet and relocate it but I won't gain much and keep the wire straight. If either of you have some pics of your lay out of this boat I would be forever grateful.

Chuck

Chuck,
I will edit some pictures of Andy's old Xzess 2 in here later today. My Xzess 2 had a Barracuda 120 have a thermal melt down in it last weekend and so all the inside is gutted while I repair the damage and clean the mess up.

Just going through my Flickr pics and found this one. Battery goes almost all the way up front and the esc sits on top of that.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3270/2769980368_8a18ebd9e7_o.jpg

The picture below shows that the CF boom is cut to let the battery go almost all the way up to the front. You can see where the motor sits and in the rear the receiver is velcro'd to the rudder servo. At the transom you can see some sponge I use to soak any water up that might get in.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3423/3172036644_f12a95e021_o.jpg

Here is one of Andy's old boat. Again the rudder servo and receiver are towards the transom
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1355/3171914812_6d06b8fba8_o.jpg

[andym]

Chuck I used to mount the esc upside down off the tub cross brace, get rid of the rear boom carrier from the tub and you have plenty of room for adjustment with 4s 1p so it should be the same with 2s 2p. How about some pics Chuck,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[egneg]

How about some pics Chuck,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Ok - here they are. I still have to change connectors/shorten some wires and of course nothing is fastened down yet. I hope this will give you some idea of what I am working with. If I go with this I will need to extend the esc to rx lead.

[Xzessperated]

Ok - here they are. I still have to change connectors/shorten some wires and of course nothing is fastened down yet. I hope this will give you some idea of what I am working with. If I go with this I will need to extend the esc to rx lead.

That is a clean looking hull Chuck. It looks new. I think we told you to set the strut at 20mm and level with your table top (best done while the wife is washing the Volvo). Put a good turn fin on this and you will have a fast and stable little hull.
This hull will blow over at high speed and I think the way Andy dealt with that problem is better than the way I did as he ended up with a lighter hull.

[egneg]

Paddy as of right now I have it set at 18mm as this was the minimum that Andy suggested. I will go down a if bit it runs a wet.

[Xzessperated]

Paddy as of right now I have it set at 18mm as this was the minimum that Andy suggested. I will go down a if bit it runs a wet.

Geeeez. He gives you his secret tips and not me. I will rub a little snake oil on my strut and slide it up a bit and see what happens.

[andym]

Chuck that esc looks bigger than the CC 240 I ran in mine. Is the rear sponson boom still across the tub? These hulls do blow over if the weight is not right and those packs should get as far forward as possible. If your weight is not right you will find that you will have to run the strut as deep as 1" to stop the blow overs and this makes the sponsons run wet. I tried to aim to have the CoB as close as poss to the rear of the ride pads, not 2" back as the usual hydro formula would suggest. With the CoB approx 5-10mm behind ride pad I could run 18mm strut well into the 60mph range with only the occasional lift and it was controlable.

[Simon.O.]

, not 2" back as the usual hydro formula would suggest. With the CoB approx 5-10mm behind ride pad .

NOT a shot at Andy.

This is a very contentious issue with me at the moment.
A common "rule" that is trotted out is 1-2" behind the sponson for hydros and riggers.
1"on a 18 "rigger is a lot different to 1"on a 32"rigger.
I have read that 10-14% of the afterplane is a good start area too. This make a little more sense than a fixed dimension.
FFS these hulls are quite different when you take into account Shovel nose, Pickle fork, Ventilated just for Hydros then come the Riggers with bare booms or even winglets like the X2.

One formula for all ??? Like F#$@ !!
A start point for all. YES !!

It is easy to set the CoB just aft of the sponson and start your trimming from there.

As an example.
Paddy has his CoB 24% aft of the sponson on the X3
Slim has his over 20% on the same hull.
Neither have blown over yet Paddy at least has gone over 110 Km/h

:focus:
Set your AoA of your sponsons to the suggested point.
I am not familiar with that hull............yet.
Just listen to Andy or Paddy for strut depth measurements and this will give you an AoA that is measurable.

Run it and let us know.

If you are feeling brave then move the CoB aft untill you blow it over.
This CoB measuremenrt must be recorded and should be published, here with video.
VIDEO IS A MUST if you choose to go this way. :popcorn2:

I will help where I can with tech knowledge.
Andy and Paddy have first hand knowledge of this hull so will provide a LOT of good information that will help you get this boat screaming.

[Xzessperated]

Good comments Simon as this boat WILL blow over if you put the weight too far back. To stop mine blowing over I stole 3 of my sons fishing sinkers and they are right up in the nose.
Andy solved the problem a better way IMO.
See the pictures below and you will notice he used pieces of soft drink bottle on the winglets. When he told me about it and sent me the pics I was thinking this is some of Andy's :icon_bs: but now I own the boat I can see it works very well and his old boat is quite a lot lighter than mine.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3125/3163948402_e736678902_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3135/3163948116_27b5ea2870_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3104/3163947862_ae32f86186_o.jpg

[andym]

Simon that is the formula I was refering to. The xs2 does not run well at speed to that formula. Because of the wings and the obvious lift they generate you will find that at 60mph you NEED the CoB at or close to the back of the ride pad,

[egneg]

First off thanks for the COB advice I will see about shifting things around to move it forward. Second I looked at the carbon rod going through the tub and it is not supported where the wings meet the tub. Is it glassed in somehow, supported by wood then glassed, or are the wings filled with 2 part foam for support? I don't want to cut it out until I have a plan or better understanding of how it is supported at this point.

[Xzessperated]

First off thanks for the COB advice I will see about shifting things around to move it forward. Second I looked at the carbon rod going through the tub and it is not supported where the wings meet the tub. Is it glassed in somehow, supported by wood then glassed, or are the wings filled with 2 part foam for support? I don't want to cut it out until I have a plan or better understanding of how it is supported at this point.

Chuck the pictures below might help.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3117/3163949052_502c3d4694_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3135/3163114231_9bccffde1e_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3087/3163947522_a4cb909b64_o.jpg

This is Andy's old boat. We both did similar things except I used thicker wood than Andy. You must drill the wood, remove the boom so you can let the boom slide through the drill holes and when you have the boom in place glue the wood to the hull. After it has dried for some time cut the boom and you open up the hole for the battery to slide almost all the way to the nose.
I hope that helps.

[egneg]

Thanks Paddy that answers a lot of questions. Hopefully I can free up the carbon rod for this method - if not I may have to resort to drilling the hole and splitting the wood for a 2 part installation.

[Xzessperated]

Thanks Paddy that answers a lot of questions. Hopefully I can free up the carbon rod for this method - if not I may have to resort to drilling the hole and splitting the wood for a 2 part installation.

That would work Chuck. Don't spare the glue and it will last forever.

[egneg]

This is what I came up with. The aluminum was to thick to bend and a get good fit. So I looked through my lumber yard from when I built 1/12 scale doll houses and furniture quite a few years ago and found just what I needed. The pieces are glued with CA and ready to be epoxied into place.

[Xzessperated]

This is what I came up with. The aluminum was to thick to bend and a get good fit. So I looked through my lumber yard from when I built 1/12 scale doll houses and furniture quite a few years ago and found just what I needed. The pieces are glued with CA and ready to be epoxied into place.

That looks better than both of ours Chuck. Well done. An ample amount of epoxy and you will be able to open her up.

[andym]

Even a little bit of glass ribbon just to make sure it is strong, and yes a cleaner job than mine. In my defence I was learning the art of model building at the time and now it would be a muck cleaner job.
When they are glassed in it will look like it came from the factory.
Excellent work Chuck

[Flying Scotsman]

A great thread. I have to build one and show you a**holes how it is done....using pieces of soft drink bottles on the winglets, give me a break! Now, a Scotsman would use, used condoms...no need for velcro...open the used condom and apply. A simple solution you Colonial twits :olleyes:

Paddy, I do like the new avatar, Andy's is land locked as is the egg man :hide:

Douggie the ?

[egneg]

Douggie you are just jealous because you only get to run boats once a year and that's if summer falls on a weekend! So you have 363 days a year for building boats.

BTW there is this wee pond ten minutes east of my house that never freezes!!! :tongue:

[Xzessperated]

A great thread. I have to build one and show you a**holes how it is done....using pieces of soft drink bottles on the winglets, give me a break! Now, a Scotsman would use, used condoms...no need for velcro...open the used condom and apply. A simple solution you Colonial twits :olleyes:

Paddy, I do like the new avatar, Andy's is land locked as is the egg man :hide:

Douggie the ?

Ahhh! It makes a man feel so good to wake up at 4.30 am and find he has been called an a**hole and a colonial twit. I feel so loved now. Douggie you are becoming Australianized.
Now I can go back to bed and cuddle my teddy bear for a while and feel good that I have a friend in Canada.
Douggie I will try to come up with a better avatar.... maybe an advert for Scots whisky or condoms for your boat.

[egneg]

Don't take it so bad Paddy ... One must remember that 4:30 am for you is drunk:30 for Douggie!

[andym]

Chuck that "pond" should be just big enough for that little rigger,,,,,
Now Douggie this is a serious boat thread and if you do not have any boating input then go have another drink.
As you should well know that us " colonials" had to sail here in tall ships, thats right you inbreed ,BOATS and that is why the colonial boats are always faster than the drunken sailors from the northern hemispher and we only need 1 pack to do it. Now I cant talk for Paddy but condoms are always to SMALL that is why we regulary cut the ends off of 2L Coke bottles!

[Xzessperated]

Oh dear!

[andym]

Yes Paddy I am waiting for the wrath of Douggie!!!!!!

[Xzessperated]

Yes Paddy I am waiting for the wrath of Douggie!!!!!!

Douggie is learning how to speak to us. I am impressed. I guess his brother Dave is telling him how to impress an Aussie. :laugh:

BTW I seen you say you might replace that banged up DF33 on Doug Smocks thread. Remember you little mate in Tassie when it comes time to sell the DF33 as I want to replace my NS3 with something that does not blow over so easy.

[andym]

We will talk old mate.

[Xzessperated]

We will talk old mate.

Good man. You can write my name on the Rico after you bang that up a bit too. I must say Doug's boat runs very nice. I have never seen a mono sit so stable at high speed.
BTW I changed my web browser to Firefox. I noticed it has a spell checker in it and it tells you if you are spelling bad. All I need is one to put the commas and exclamation marks in all the right places.

:focus: I am thinking of converting my JR - R1 radios to 2.4 Ghz. I get to keep all the nice things that the JR has and I get the benefit of short antennas. The PM better hurry up with my $900 as I have it spent.

[Flying Scotsman]

Ah, it is nice to know you are loved and respected especially from the likes of Paddy, Andy and Chuck. Andy the fact is that you Colonials in Australia got there in ships crewed by drunken Scots who dropped off you unwashed heathens and then hightailed it back home for another load. Paddy you are correct about Wee Dave, he filled me in on Aussie pleasantries :hornets_nest:

Douggie

[Flying Scotsman]

For those that are viewing these rants for a first time and are going wow. We are just taking the p**s out of each other. I love sheep and Andy...well that could be scarry. Paddy is marginally OK as he lives in Tasmania, Chuck is a problem as he thinks he might have some Scottish ancestorry.

Douggie

[Diegoboy]

...as long as everybody :olleyes: minds their P's & Q's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P's_and_Q's)

[Flying Scotsman]

...as long as everybody :olleyes: minds their P's & Q's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P's_and_Q's)

Now Andy, see what you have started :biggrin:. Danny the Scottish dictionary has a different translation, which can not be printed for fear of upsetting sheep, wombats, Tasmanian devils and eagles :beerchug:
Plus to many peoples relief, I will try to shut up, unless the whisky bottle is giving me a stare :tongue_smilie:

Douggie

[Xzessperated]

...as long as everybody :olleyes: minds their P's & Q's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P's_and_Q's)

My new spell checker is helping me with those. :roflol:

[Flying Scotsman]

Ok, I now appoligse to the masters of the universe...Scots...Scots..Scots, but back to the topic which is great. I would love to run one of those nasty boats

Douggie

[andym]

What is a P's & Q's, sounds like something you see at the sex shop! Diegoboy I find that obscene and you should be very careful talking like that....!!!!

[Flying Scotsman]

Andy, my love you are there. any more comments?

Douggie

[Diegoboy]

You obviously failed to follow the "OSE approved" link provided in the "P's & Q's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P's_and_Q's)" comment. :lol:

[ozzie-crawl]

what paddy hasnt told anyone is there is no such animal as a tassie devil, its what tasmanians turn into on a full moon

[Flying Scotsman]

Danny, he did he was an Aussie, and could not understand the subilty Paddy note the spell chheck
Douggie

[egneg]

:focus:

I have the supports epoxied into place and am now waiting for some lighter FG cloth to be delivered as the stuff I had was to heavy. When that comes I will reinforce the supports for the carbon rod.

On a side note I have discovered that 3.5 bullets fit very nicely into 5.5 bullets. So I soldered the existing motor connectors into the 5.5's to match my ESC.

[andym]

Excellent work Chuck, I must apologise for the people (Diegoboy) who have stolen this very good and imformative thread, If it becomes a problem we will sort them out for you Chuck.
Please post pics of your work so others may see what we are talking about. I personaly think that a properly set up xs2 will keep up with a xs3.

[egneg]

Andy I have cut out the carbon fiber rod and the CoB is still 60mm from the back of the ride pad. If I move the motor forward 60mm the CoB is 50mm. I don't see how I can get to 5-10mm without putting weight in the front.

:confused2:

[Xzessperated]

Andy I have cut out the carbon fiber rod and the CoB is still 60mm from the back of the ride pad. If I move the motor forward 60mm the CoB is 50mm. I don't see how I can get to 5-10mm without putting weight in the front.

:confused2:

Chuck where have you got your receiver pack? I put mine in front of the Lipo. They will fit up in the nose. That helps a bit with CoB. Put the Lipo as far forward as possible. I could sit my Barra 120 (now deceased) on top of the Lipo



Danny, he did he was an Aussie, and could not understand the subilty Paddy note the spell chheck
Douggie

Douggie if people can not understand my jokes it is their problem.
As far as P's & Q's goes that is a common expression down here that I have heard from the day of my birth.

[Xzessperated]

I personaly think that a properly set up xs2 will keep up with a xs3.

I agree with that except to say that the Xzess 3 is better when the water gets a little chop.

[Diegoboy]

Douggie if people can not understand my jokes it is their problem.
As far as P's & Q's goes that is a common expression down here that I have heard from the day of my birth.

That's funny, because I can't really recall ANYTHING from the first few years of my birth. Your comprehension & memory should be studied by scientists.

[Xzessperated]

That's funny, because I can't really recall ANYTHING from the first few years of my birth. Your comprehension & memory should be studied by scientists.
I am sorry if I am an Australian.

[Diegoboy]

The way my memory has been going. I wish I was born Australian now! :smile:

[egneg]

Chuck where have you got your receiver pack? I put mine in front of the Lipo. They will fit up in the nose. That helps a bit with CoB. Put the Lipo as far forward as possible. I could sit my Barra 120 (now deceased) on top of the Lipo

Paddy I have the lipos in the nose and the esc on top of them. I don't have the receiver pack in it yet I will put that up front as well and recheck the CoB.

[egneg]

Ok I put the receiver pack up front along the lipo's and esc the CoB is now at 56mm from the ride pads. I even put a 210 gram lead weight in the front and the Cob was 50mm from the ride pads.

I think I would have to chop the back end off to get 5-10mm. :confused:

Andy you didn't turn this boat into a submarine did you?

[Flying Scotsman]

The way my memory has been going. I wish I was born Australian now! :smile:

No... No... No.. you then would have to put up with insults from every corner of the earth. Now, if you had said Scottish all would have been forgiven and you could retire to a sheep farm and drink whisky and dream of the boats you could have built with the knowledge that those twits from the BIG ISLAND would not intrude on your superior boat building skills. :unsure:

Love you Paddy and Andy..Chuck with his new avatar, I am now concerned as to his mental health

Douggie

[Xzessperated]

No... No... No.. you then would have to put up with insults from every corner of the earth. Now, if you had said Scottish all would have been forgiven and you could retire to a sheep farm and drink whisky and dream of the boats you could have built with the knowledge that those twits from the BIG ISLAND would not intrude on your superior boat building skills. :unsure:

Love you Paddy and Andy..Chuck with his new avatar, I am now concerned as to his mental health

Douggie

:laugh: Chuck told me that Diegoboy builds the slowest boats on Loch Fembot

[Flying Scotsman]

The suspense is killing me where are you dead parrots

Douggie

[andym]

No Sub Chuck, I feel yor pain. I set you a target of 10-15mm so you would but alot of effort into the CoB BEFORE you start blowing over. Very Very Sneakey of me don't you think?. I know that at 60mm you will be called back Flipper by your mates, 30-40 is Okay. What HW do you have on it? It is not one of those forgiving boats on CoB as some are, my sport 20 can change CoB by 2" and it is still rock solid. The xs2 will need deeper strut depth the further back your CoB is and as we all know the deeper the strut the slower your XS2 will go. The rudder can help stop you going over as well by having a degree or two OUT angle. This helps stop the stern dropping and if your rudder is on the left helps keep the inside sponson planted in turns. Very handy when cornering at 60+

[Flying Scotsman]

Now, we are talking....Fembots??
Please note Andy is trying to be serious.
Plus another video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FWno


Douggie

[egneg]

The wire drive is 68mm past the stuffing tube now - can I get a new wire and extend that - moving the motor forward? BTW I have the carbon rod cut and the supports are glassed in now.

Paddy are you trying to cause a rift between Fembot members?

[Flying Scotsman]

Just love Chuck, and if many comments of many comments that I make are not understood. I will pass away. I just love humour. Douggie the twit

[egneg]

For U Douggie - I <3 U 2.

[andym]

Do mean 68mm of uncovered wire? If so then replace the stuffing tube. You know the drill beg , borrow or steal a hair drier, heat up the epoxy and peel it away

[egneg]

Yes 68mm of uncovered wire. Thanks Andy I will pull the stuffing tube and replace it - what do you recommend for the wire exposure?

[Flying Scotsman]

Chuck, you have blessed me in a language I thought that was meant for the high intellect of our peers...love you mate :smile:

Douggie the ugly

[Xzessperated]

Paddy are you trying to cause a rift between Fembot members?

Chuck how could you say such a thing? I am not one to promote discord amongst my fellow boaters. To the contrary, I was elected because of my stand on harmony and fellowship amongst FE boaters all over the world.

Douggie I loved the video. You will have to excuse Andy as he told me on the phone last night that his best friends wife is having a baby.... Andy's. :doh:

[andym]

Chuck I have about 15mm on the sport 20 with no problems. It supports it's self well but 68mm seems a bit extreme.
Paddy what is wrong with my best mates wife having my baby? That is what good friends are for .........................................

[Simon.O.]

Yes 68mm of uncovered wire. Thanks Andy I will pull the stuffing tube and replace it - what do you recommend for the wire exposure?

On a 062 wire I have over 100 mm exposed between the stuff tube and strut on a couple of hulls with no visable whip or vibration.
At the motor end there is a tendancy for the wire to whip when it is in a straight line from the coupler to the stuff tube. 50mm is fine for my applications.
If you want some photos I can put them here or e-mail them to you.

[egneg]

Simon please post some pics. I am very interested in the wire drives and I know of no one local that has one. The way this one is done the main stuffing tube is one size and there are smaller tubes at each end that act as bearings/bushings if you will. I was thinking that I could extend the original tube with a new bearing tube at he motor end.

Chuck

[Simon.O.]

Chuck, here are a few pics of my wires.
You are right, it is normal to have a small tube over the wire that is then stepped up and up to a larger set of tubes to make the stuffing tube.
I do this so that there is only a short length at each end of the stuff tube that contacts the wire. There are a couple of good maintenance reasons too.
Here ya go.

[Flying Scotsman]

Enough about wires, let us get serious

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xToPCaNxaow

Douggie

[egneg]

Thanks for the pics Simon. I think I will try and splice into the existing tube and add 50mm or so at the motor end. I think if I use a larger tube that is fairly long that it will be aligned without having to remove it and start over.

P.S. Paddy I was only kidding!

P.S.S Douggie that bit is at least 30 years old.

[Flying Scotsman]

Yes, but it is still a great comic venue..much better than the potty humour we get today.

Douggie

[Xzessperated]

P.S. Paddy I was only kidding!



Me too Chuck. If I was not kidding I would have told Diegoboy what you really said about his boats. :w00t:

Douggie I still love that humor. Chuck is still a bit young to appreciate it yet. I must admit Chuck is on to something with this Evil Roy Slade though. That guy could be Andy's brother.

[Flying Scotsman]

This one is for Chuck as the US tourist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGm5XWPMB5U


Douggie

[egneg]

Douggie this is for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es0t50H44IE&feature=PlayList&p=08B151DAAE61D36A&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1

[Flying Scotsman]

That is a cracker, but the lads were wearing underpants???

Dooggie

[egneg]

That is a cracker, but the lads were wearing underpants???

Dooggie

I sure as h*ll hope so!!!

[andym]

I have set up my sport 20 to run a .150 flex and then just wacked a .078 wire drive in. NO special tube, run stuffing tube into strut as normal. This works great, no slap, no water in the hull and easy to use. Now Jeff has the compresion coupler to suit the .078 even better.

[egneg]

Andy and Simon this very interesting - 2 different approaches that both seem to work. Andy may I ask why you took this approach? Did you want the option of using a cable?

[andym]

Chuck I started with the flex but it vibrated badly, i think due to length. It is a nice easy bend so tried a wire drive. Fixed the problem, boat was faster, did not sound like a vibrator on Viagra and it worked well.

[NativePaul]

One for the Jocks and Kiwis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmy6OaZEAhE)

I run a hull with 17" of 2mm wire, less than 2" of stuffing tube, the only bearings are inside the motor and strut, the stuffing tube is oversize and the only part that makes contact is the bit of fuel tubing around the end of the stuffing tube that I use to stop water ingress and it runs fine with no whip or vibration, I take the thrust at the strut, passing the thrust to the motor may introduce whip but I've never tried it to be sure.

[Flying Scotsman]

Now, I have called Andy and Paddy idiots, here is their redemption. Andy is very easy to spot, Paddy is more cunning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNBNqUdqm1E&feature=related

And one for Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f_p0CgPeyA&feature=related

Douggie

[egneg]

I run a hull with 17" of 2mm wire, less than 2" of stuffing tube, the only bearings are inside the motor and strut, the stuffing tube is oversize and the only part that makes contact is the bit of fuel tubing around the end of the stuffing tube that I use to stop water ingress and it runs fine with no whip or vibration, I take the thrust at the strut, passing the thrust to the motor may introduce whip but I've never tried it to be sure.

Another approach that works ... maybe I will try it the way it is first and then make changes if needed.

[egneg]

I had to go back 7 pages for this thread. Anyway I have everything installed and bench tested. While I was checking everything I noticed that the rudder was angled in a bit. I changed it so it angled out a bit and was wondering what you guys had for rudder angle or do you keep it perpendicular to the sponson/strut plane?

[andym]

Chuck if the rudder is on the left of the tub then I like mine angled out a deg or two. This helps with a couple of things, the slight out angle helps create a bit of lift and assist's the rear from dropping and then a flip, it also creates slight downward pressure on the inside sponson in a turn to help stop it lifting and the turn fin blowing out. Made a big difference to my old xs2.

[egneg]

Andy the rudder is mounted on the right - this is how I got it. So I have several constraints as I did not build this boat but will do my best to make it work. I may end up having to take everything out and start over as the wire drive is set at a shallow angle as well. I can't get the strut to 20mm without quite a positive angle in order to keep the wire from hitting the strut.

[egneg]

I have the XS2 almost ready to go! I need some tubing for the water cooling and it will be off to the pond. I will go to the LHS in a bit and hopefully will have it wet later this afternoon. I thank everyone for their advice and help.

Chuck

[Flying Scotsman]

Chuck, that is a great build. For some of you young Turks :drool:

Douggie

[Xzessperated]

Chuck, that is a great build.
Douggie

:iagree: The fun is about to start. I am looking forward to your "on water" report. Take a gps with you Chuck as you are about to set your personal best speed.

[egneg]

:iagree: The fun is about to start. I am looking forward to your "on water" report. Take a gps with you Chuck as you are about to set your personal best speed.

I will Paddy - but I think I will run it a bit first so it doesn't join my first one at the bottom of the pond

[egneg]

Except for the great picture things went downhill. The back end hopped so bad that it never really hooked up. I brought it in and made some adjustments but forgot to tighten the coupler and it went nowhere fast. When I got it back it had taken on about an 1/8 cup of water and I couldn't get the ESC to arm. So I called it a day and am now drying things out so I can find the source of the leak.

Edit: I do have to say that I am very impressed with the wire drive as I can't think of a harder test for it considering that it went from no load to full load repeatedly in a very short span of time.

[Xzessperated]

The back end hopped so bad that it never really hooked up.

Edit: I do have to say that I am very impressed with the wire drive as I can't think of a harder test for it considering that it went from no load to full load repeatedly in a very short span of time.

Chuck,
What prop were you running? I have only ever got a V series prop to hook up one time. It went like a cut cat when it did and registered 75mph. All the other times I have tried to use a V series prop I get the same hop.
The angle of the strut will cause the hop also. It has to be level. I am sure Andy will throw you a life buoy also.

[tth]

Not to butt in, I also have mixed results with the V- series. I know all about the hop. What Paddy says is true, when these props catch you better have some good underpants on.

[egneg]

I was running a Prather 215 so I am sure it was improper strut setting.

[egneg]

Good news and bad news. The good news is ESC is just fine because as I suspected the connection on the extension is what got wet and why the esc wouldn't arm. The bad news isn't really that bad as I found the source of the leak. I feel like an idiot because I didn't see it before I put the boat in the water. There is a hole for the antenna wire just below the bracket and I am using a tactic Tx/Rx. I will remove the bracket and fill the holes before the next test run.

[andym]

Just use some RTV Silicone where the wire goes through, cup that prop a little and set your strut neutral. All will be good. Nice work

[Flying Scotsman]

Wait till he gets his new motor. :unsure:

Douggie

[egneg]

Wait till he gets his new motor. :unsure:

Douggie

Douggie The motor arrived today safe and sound and looks great. I have bench tested it and everything works just fine.

[Xzessperated]

Douggie The motor arrived today safe and sound and looks great. I have bench tested it and everything works just fine.

I hope the paint never got scratched in transit.

[andym]

What would that matter? It looks like a three year old on Ritalin finger painted it!
OH sorry Douggie I forgot you painted it........................:rockon2::rofl:

[Flying Scotsman]

Do not worry lads the proof will be in the pudding. Also very silent on other fronts in this forum

Douggie

[egneg]

I hope the paint never got scratched in transit.

The way you had it packed there was no chance of that. And I will do a killer paint job on the motor.

http://www.killerpaint.com/gallery.html

[Xzessperated]

Do not worry lads the proof will be in the pudding. Also very silent on other fronts in this forum

Douggie

Oh dear and Ohhhhhh dear. :tape:

[Xzessperated]

The way you had it packed there was no chance of that. And I will do a killer paint job on the motor.

http://www.killerpaint.com/gallery.html

Niceeeee work Chuck but do not upset the kid that did the finger painting by posting pictures of your work on here :laugh::laugh::laugh::banana::banana::banana:

[andym]

Niceeeee work Chuck but do not upset the kid that did the finger painting by posting pictures of your work on here
Oh Dear and Ohhhhhh dear :tape:
:sorry: Douggie I realy am,,,,:just-kidding:

[Simon.O.]

:hide::popcorn2::flashfire:

[egneg]

I have the XS2 running good now on the aveox 36/30/1.5. The strut is at 12mm neutral on a M545 prop. My etrex won't fit but I am sure it was doing better than 50 mph (80 kph for Andy and Paddy). I will put in the 8XL from Douggie and a turnigy 120 marine now and see how things go. The .062 wire drive works great with this setup. Thanks for all the help so far!

[Xzessperated]

I have the XS2 running good now on the aveox 36/30/1.5. The strut is at 12mm neutral on a M545 prop. My etrex won't fit but I am sure it was doing better than 50 mph (80 kph for Andy and Paddy). I will put in the 8XL from Douggie and a turnigy 120 marine now and see how things go. The .062 wire drive works great with this setup. Thanks for all the help so far!

You need a Forerunner Chuck. They are a bit smaller. I have been known to tape mine to the outside and that works just fine until a blow over (3 of them at the bottom of my pond).

I am old enough to remember mph very well. I still convert speed back to mph to give it some relevance in my tiny mind.

Douggies motor will make that thing fly.

You have a lot of fun times ahead of you with that boat. I have had one of mine for about 2 years and I am still squeezing more speed from it. They both give me the same jelly legs that Mr. Krabs does when I pull back hard on the throttle.

[egneg]

Paddy I just ordered a forerunner 201 from ebay - can't wait to get it!

[andym]

They work good ( forerunner's), mine goes everywhere with me. As for the jelly legs Paddy I do not think it is the boats doing that. I heard you nearly got yourself arrested in the womans underwear dept at work last night mate. I NO Paddy's going blind! Ha Ha Ha .
Nice work on the boat Chuck, how does it turn? well I hope as there are two corners involved in this capper unless you are a SAW only person.

[egneg]

Andy the pond (Loch Fembot) is getting too small for the faster boats :sad: and had a bit of chop so I couldn't turn at WOT. It is good for testing though as you can easily walk around it to recover a boat if it quits running.


On a side note I found out that Aussie beer doesn't have any bubbles ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp368iEcB78


Here are links to real beer ...

http://www.leinie.com/beers.html

http://www.newglarusbrewing.com/Beers.cfm?BeerCategoryID=1

[Xzessperated]

Andy the pond (Loch Fembot) is getting too small for the faster boats :sad: and had a bit of chop so I couldn't turn at WOT. It is good for testing though as you can easily walk around it to recover a boat if it quits running.


On a side note I found out that Aussie beer doesn't have any bubbles ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp368iEcB78


Here are links to real beer ...

http://www.leinie.com/beers.html

http://www.newglarusbrewing.com/Beers.cfm?BeerCategoryID=1

Well Chuck this girl shows us that you guys can put bubbles in your beer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S2VUCdbhg0&NR=1

[egneg]

Douggie I have put the motor in that I got from you and will test it tomorrow weather permitting.

[Xzessperated]

Douggie I have put the motor in that I got from you and will test it tomorrow weather permitting.
I hope your gps has arrived so we can see how fast it is with that setup Chuck

[egneg]

Paddy I have the new gps and will let you know how things go.

[andym]

Chuck I think you will see 60+ with the right prop, these things hit 60 with very little effort

[egneg]

Ran the boat today but it was way to windy and quite a bit of chop so I realy couln't run it WOT. Here is a pic with Douggie's motor installed

[egneg]

I haven't posted in this thread for a while as I have had a couple of setbacks with broken wires and lost props. But I got things straightened out and went to the pond this afternoon because the water was flat and very little breeze. I have a smile from ear to ear. I would like to thank Andy, Paddy, Simon, Douggie, and all the others that helped me get this boat running.

[Xzessperated]

I haven't posted in this thread for a while as I have had a couple of setbacks with broken wires and lost props. But I got things straightened out and went to the pond this afternoon because the water was flat and very little breeze. I have a smile from ear to ear. I would like to thank Andy, Paddy, Simon, Douggie, and all the others that helped me get this boat running.

That is great news Chuck. That is 0.1kph faster than my best speed (see below) on a Chinese motor. Douggies old engine is honkin. Keep us posted as you continue your testing.

Andy help!!! Chuck and Douggie are beating us.

4s PolyQuest LiPo, Feigao 6xl, Octura X642 = 104 kph

[egneg]

Paddy my setup ...

4S Elite 35C, Feigao 8XL-modded, Octura M545-modded.

[Xzessperated]

Paddy my setup ...

4S Elite 35C, Feigao 8XL-modded, Octura M545-modded.

Chuck I think your ability to be able to run the M545 is a great benefit to your speed.
As far as 2 blade props go the M545 is the fastest prop on both my Mr Krabs and my Neu powered Xzess 2.
Andy told me to run a 7xl or 8xl instead of the 6xl motor but I would not listen. You will get longer run times on that 8xl. I run for about 10 seconds and then let the 6xl cool. Anyway I will watch the things you do and if necessary make some changes to keep close to your speed. It is good when there is someone else with a similar setup as the exchange of information saves both time and money on experimenting.

[egneg]

As you already know I have an .062 wire drive (as this is how it came) and the strut is 12mm from the bottom of the transom to the bottom of the strut. I am thinking Of making a tapered plug to better fit the wire for the front of the strut as it is open and I am sure it adds quite a bit of drag.

[Flying Scotsman]

Now you Aussies know who rules. :roflol: and sheep dip on the linkage as I suggested Chuck, probably made the difference
Also note that motor was modified by Peter Zicha

Douggie

[andym]

I love those wire drives in my hydro,s, Paddy I still believe you can not run a prop that these hulls need with a 6xl ,just too hot

[Xzessperated]

I love those wire drives in my hydro,s, Paddy I still believe you can not run a prop that these hulls need with a 6xl ,just too hot

Andy I am thinking that if I can get Douggie to paint the motor then it will be faster :laugh:

[andym]

Oh Douggie will be so happy!! He probably has his finger paints out in anticipation, and we all know how his psychologist thinks it is great therapy

[egneg]

I have been thinking about trying a 5S 5000mah 30c with the 8XL. Will this work or am I headed for trouble?

[Flying Scotsman]

Give it a whirl and you know the drill for temperatures and amperage draw
The M545 prop may be a problem.....Andy? or are you still busy in the Roo barn

Douggie

[andym]

I would try a x645 or m645 with the usual mods, but a V series cupped to reduce that pesky extra lift would be very fast. 8xl on 5s MATE , probably work for SAW runs and then cooling down but the motor and esc would not last long.

[egneg]

I think you are right Andy I will mod the V940/3 I have and give it a go or maybe get a V942/3 if there is to much cavitation.

[egneg]

I ran the XS2 again today but there was more wind and a bit of chop. I ran it for a minute and brought it in. The second time out was a bit faster but I forgot to put the GPS back in :doh:. Temps were good so now it is time to prop up to a M645.

[andym]

Chuck I ran my raptor rigger yesterday with a 7xl and very modded m447 on the cheap 30c 5000mah packs. It ran for 2min 20 sec before LV cut in so race distance not a problem and it was sooo fast. No room for the GPS but well into the 60 mph range. Temps were all under 145 F. I think it can run large props due to the rear ride pad? Handles like it,s on rails to. You should be able to get well over 60 by proping up mate

[Xzessperated]

I ran the XS2 again today but there was more wind and a bit of chop. I ran it for a minute and brought it in. The second time out was a bit faster but I forgot to put the GPS back in :doh:. Temps were good so now it is time to prop up to a M645.

Waiting to see how the M645 goes for you Chuck. I want to try one of those babies on my Neu powered XS2.

Write 100 times...
I must not forget the GPS :laugh:

[egneg]

I ran the boat again today because when I left the house there wasn't any wind. When I got to the lake there was a pretty stiff breeze and some chop. I did manage a couple of runs before it did a 360 flip and the right sponson came loose. Both runs were a bit over 60 mph - not bad for the conditions. Some epoxy and I will be ready to try the M645 (as soon as I get a chance to get it ready).

[Flying Scotsman]

Paddy I watched the game between St. Kilda and the Western Bulldogs. One heck of a match and #12 was the STAR. There was one lad on the Bulldogs who made one hell of a banana/slice kick.
Also for those ignorant of the game, it makes the NFL players fitness levels look awfull and no pads and helments. Aussie rules is a very tough game!!!

Edit
Take those helmets off the NFL players and then we may see a good game....concussions are not pleasant and the fat lineman will have to get fit. Do not get me wrong I watch the NFL every week but these obese and you know what drugs that some have taken will have to be banned and I do love the game. A helmet is not a weapon

Douggie

[andym]

who made one hell of a banana/slice
Douggie we play a real mans game over here, not some fagot cooking class............................

[egneg]

Well the XS2 blew over and tumbled at over 60 mph. The sponson's didn't fair to well and I am open to suggestions for fixing the cracks. The carbon fiber tube can be fixed by sliding a smaller one in with a bit of CA. Here are the photos...

[Xzessperated]

Well the XS2 blew over and tumbled at over 60 mph. The sponson's didn't fair to well and I am open to suggestions for fixing the cracks. The carbon fiber tube can be fixed by sliding a smaller one in with a bit of CA. Here are the photos...

Sorry to see the damage done to that beautiful rigger Chuck. At least now it will start to look like mine. Do not worry as it will go on to set new personal best speeds as mine have done.
This is how I would go about the fix but I am sure that if 10 others reply then you will get 10 different answers. First I would look to see what is keeping that gap so wide on the sponson in the second picture and remove anything that might be keeping it open like that. Get is so you can close that gap with a bit of pressure. Next I would make sure that the tubes that carry the CF booms are not damaged. If they are I would replace them as I am going. Next roughen up the fiberglass each side of the crack so that the epoxy will get a good bond. Cut a strip of glass cloth to put across the crack. Mix some micro balloons in the epoxy and spread some on the area you are going to work on first. Work the cloth into this and let it dry. You might have to do small areas at a time. Once it has dried and hard (that can take some time) you can start sanding it.
Now comes the important part. Paint the sponsons Packers Green and man have you got yourself one nice cheesehead boat.

[andym]

Sounds just how I would do it Paddy, Chuck must have been some flip to do that amount of damage! I flipped mine at 60+ a dozen times with very minimal damage. Bad luck mate, H&M will sell sponsons alone I think

[Xzessperated]

Sounds just how I would do it Paddy, Chuck must have been some flip to do that amount of damage! I flipped mine at 60+ a dozen times with very minimal damage. Bad luck mate, H&M will sell sponsons alone I think

Order green ones Chuck

[egneg]

Well I have the CF tube repaired as well as the FG on the sponsons. They are ready for green paint! I will post pics when it's all back together.

[Flying Scotsman]

Green!!!! it must be Scottish regal blue

Douggie

[egneg]

Douggie ... I don't know where the blue came from but it sure as heck will NOT be plaid!

[andym]

Go with red Chuck, it will go heaps faster!!!! That Scottish blue is the slowest colour of the lot. Thats because we all know Scott's are SLOW

[Xzessperated]

Well I have the CF tube repaired as well as the FG on the sponsons. They are ready for green paint! I will post pics when it's all back together.

Pack that green paint on Chuck



Grrrrrrrrrrrreen Bay Packers.... Wooof Wooof
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2168/2190569771_cea52aa514.jpg

[egneg]

Preliminary paint is done.

[Flying Scotsman]

Go with red Chuck, it will go heaps faster!!!! That Scottish blue is the slowest colour of the lot. Thats because we all know Scott's are SLOW

Our minds are slow but Jim Clark may say we are damn fine race car drivers. He was the best period. :tt2: Ecurie Ecosse

Douggie

[andym]

Chuck rudder angle on riggers is a great subject. It can do several things depending on what side of the transom your rudder is on. If on the left angled in a degree or two will help keep the inside sponson planted in high speed turns and this helps to stop the turn fin blowing out of the water. The down side is less lift in a straight line. If your rigger drops it's bum and starts to lift the sponsons in a straight line then a degree or two of outwards angle can help keep the transom lifted in the straights but can cause problems in corners. I like mine in a tad and with the right strut height , CG and prop get great cornering. Just my opinion and I know there are many other trains of thought out there. All set ups will be different and these can change with different props , turn fins etc so testing and more will be the key

[andym]

Hey Chuck that looks like Dept of Corrections ( Jail ) Green, hope you did not steal it!!!!

[egneg]

I did a dry fit of the sponsons and I think I need to pack a bit more green on the boat. I was thinking the tail fin should be green as well. Then I will need to find some Green Bay Packer stickers to finish the boat.

:thumbup:

[Xzessperated]

I did a dry fit of the sponsons and I think I need to pack a bit more green on the boat. I was thinking the tail fin should be green as well. Then I will need to find some Green Bay Packer stickers to finish the boat.

:thumbup:

Man that is the nicest looking Cheesehead I have seen in a long time Chuck. You packed that paint on real nice.
I agree with some Packer green on the tail fin. Andy was telling me how much he liked it on the phone yesterday.

Now a little song for us all....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IlsTXvqXsg

and Andy's favourite....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqw7D-6W5kQ&NR=1

Go Packers

[andym]

Paddy you old prick
Andy was telling me how much he liked it on the phone yesterday

I was Telling young Patrick how it is the same color as the track suits given to inmates of people in NSW jail's !!!! It is an opresive disgusting color and yes I was INNOCENT !!!!!

[Flying Scotsman]

Innocent of being a belligerent prick...I doubt it.

Douggie, the master of understanding Aussie twits, because I am on the same wavelength.

[egneg]

Paddy you old prick
I was Telling young Patrick how it is the same color as the track suits given to inmates of people in NSW jail's !!!! It is an opresive disgusting color and yes I was INNOCENT !!!!!


That's what they all say !!! :blah: :blah: :blah:

P.S. Andy do you know where I can get stickers that say "Powered by Gnu"?

[egneg]

Paint is done and the boat is put back together for the most part. I have been looking for Green Bay Packer stickers but can't find any small enough. They have everything else you could think of for Chris's sake!

[Xzessperated]

Paint is done and the boat is put back together for the most part. I have been looking for Green Bay Packer stickers but can't find any small enough. They have everything else you could think of for Chris's sake!

Nice work Chuck. I like it a lot.
If you want we could go halves in the cost of getting some Packer stickers made. I would like some for my boats too.

I do have some Powered By Neu stickers if they are any help Chuck

[Flying Scotsman]

Good looking boat Chuck, you must be in a state of shock though, as the old man in purple looked damn good yesterday.

Douggie

[egneg]

Good looking boat Chuck, you must be in a state of shock though, as the old man in purple looked damn good yesterday.

Douggie

Thanks Douggie, but it was the Viking jinx as the Pack has always had a tough time with them. :cursing:

[egneg]

Paddy, I found some Green Bay Packer stickers but they were expensive as I had to buy 40 stickers to only use 2 of them (all the NFL teams with 2 for certain teams). Here they are on the XS2.

[Chop]

Paddy, I found some Green Bay Packer stickers but they were expensive as I had to buy 40 stickers to only use 2 of them (all the NFL teams with 2 for certain teams). Here they are on the XS2.

Love the Packers theme Chuck. Did I mention that I used to sell beer in the stands at Lambeau?

[egneg]

Love the Packers theme Chuck. Did I mention that I used to sell beer in the stands at Lambeau?

I know that you must have been quite busy then !!! :lol:

[Xzessperated]

Paddy, I found some Green Bay Packer stickers but they were expensive as I had to buy 40 stickers to only use 2 of them (all the NFL teams with 2 for certain teams). Here they are on the XS2.

Chuck they look great. If ya wanna sell some of them let me know. I have a yellow DF hull that needs a little green paint on it too.

I hope Santa Packs your stocking full of goodies Chuck.


Merry Christmas to the Cheesehead family

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4045/4212146668_3f404833b6_o.jpg

[Xzessperated]

Love the Packers theme Chuck. Did I mention that I used to sell beer in the stands at Lambeau?

All hail Chop :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

[egneg]

Paddy here is a link to the stickers.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NFL-MINI-LOGO-STICKERS-FULL-SET-40-JETS-GIANTS-COLTS_W0QQitemZ170422894735QQcategoryZ0QQcmdZViewI temQQ_trksidZp4340.m506QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DNGRI%26i ts%3DI%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D10%26ps%3D63

[Xzessperated]

Paddy here is a link to the stickers.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NFL-MINI-LOGO-STICKERS-FULL-SET-40-JETS-GIANTS-COLTS_W0QQitemZ170422894735QQcategoryZ0QQcmdZViewI temQQ_trksidZp4340.m506QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DNGRI%26i ts%3DI%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D10%26ps%3D63

Now I see what you mean Chuck. You had to buy 38 stickers of the "also ran teams' stickers just to get 2 stickers of the Packers.
Thanks for the link. I will buy them.

[egneg]

Now I see what you mean Chuck. You had to buy 38 stickers of the "also ran teams' stickers just to get 2 stickers of the Packers.
Thanks for the link. I will buy them.

Yep - $7.00 each for 2 stickers!

[Flying Scotsman]

Stickers!!! let the master painter do it for free.

Douggie the idoit painter, but he is good at sheep shagging and taking the piss out of that moron from Broken Hill :banana:

Merry Christmas and I know you have some serious fires

Take care lads

Douggie

[andym]

Hey Douggie hope you had a good xmas, looks like you got caught fooling around.....

[andym]

Oh and Douggie I think you should read this !!

[Flying Scotsman]

Oh and Douggie I think you should read this !!


Typical Texans...no wellies...the feet remain on the ground and in Scotland in takes only one pervert and the wearing of the kilt :banana:

Like the new avatar :ohmy: :thumbup:

Douggie

[andym]

Like the new avatar
Hope Steve likes this one!! She has some clothes on so it should be Ok, They say fishing is all about patience and enjoying the scenery..................................

[wolf IV]

What i want to know is how you got that picture of my wife????

[andym]

Sorry mate, she said that you wouldn't mind. I will send her home when we have finished!!!

[wolf IV]

Just remember, 1.2 million. A day. No exceptions!

[wolf IV]

Almost forgot my pay pal addy... Pm me ;)

[andym]

Thats great, not only do I get my wicked way with your wife but you are giving her an allowance too... You are just to kind mate !!!

[wolf IV]

LOL.. oh man...