31" challanger offshore build... very unuasual power

[skidooguymxz550]

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well i'm starting my first real build. after some deliberation i decided to go with the challenger hull and speedmaster hardware (thankyou moppie)

-14 ib4200's
-novak hvmaxx
-speedmaster hardware
-full plumbing
-real offshore looks (planing on either a SCARAB or cigeratte)


http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g285/skidooguymxz/100_0373.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g285/skidooguymxz/100_0372.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g285/skidooguymxz/100_0371.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g285/skidooguymxz/100_0374.jpg

[skidooguymxz550]

the esc cooling plate. go to do something for the land lovvin esc

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g285/skidooguymxz/100_0376.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g285/skidooguymxz/100_0375.jpg

[Fluid]

I'm afraid that you may be very dissappointed with your setup. That 3100 Kv motor is far too much for 14 cells, especially in such a large boat. You would have to use a tiny prop, and even then you would overheat the motor, ESC and cells.

The Novak is designed for a gearbox, and if you used one it would work fine. But it as insufficuent torque for direct drive in a 31" boat that will weigh ~5 pounds. I'd suggest that you either trade for a more appropriate motor, or get a gear drive. Sorry for the reality check.... :(


.

[skidooguymxz550]

damn!! you think something for monster trucks could push a boat. i thought it was 4400kv?

[hkusp45]

KV is too high like fluid stated. I would have to run a turbo trans or somthing to gear it down..

[part time]

the novaks were not very good in the trucks compared to the hackers and feigaos. sell that hv maxx and get a feigao and a castle controller.

[hkusp45]

the novaks were not very good in the trucks compared to the hackers and feigaos. sell that hv maxx and get a feigao and a castle controller.

Good advise!

[skidooguymxz550]

with the diferrent motor and controller will i get the same speed on land? i broke into the 70's with my tc4 on the maxx

i've already put more money into this than i wanted. it seems like i'd have to spend another 70$ after i sell my novak. how is the aquacraft controller, or system?

[saleens7]

70mph with a 31" vee....:eek:

you would never be able to control it, i would be afraid to take that boat over 45mph.....boats arent like cars, and water is completely different than pavement....and a vee that size isnt mean to get up to those speeds, it will be uncontrolable and probably flip or spin out before it even gets close to those speeds. and 70mph on a boat is a whole different world that 70mph on land..if you want those speeds, you will need a boat of an entirely different design...

someone is selling a 3 pointer that will do 70mph on another forum

http://www.rumrunnerracing.com/feforums/showthread.php?t=22146

there is also a vid too....the price hes selling it at is a bargain compared to the setup you would have to buy to get this vee even close to 70mph...

[saleens7]

with the diferrent motor and controller will i get the same speed on land? i broke into the 70's with my tc4 on the maxx

i've already put more money into this than i wanted. it seems like i'd have to spend another 70$ after i sell my novak. how is the aquacraft controller, or system?

the aquacraft system might work...although it think a 9xl on 14 cells would be a little better...it would still push it pretty fast (nowhere close to 70 though)

[skidooguymxz550]

70mph with a 31" vee....:eek:

you would never be able to control it, i would be afraid to take that boat over 45mph.....boats arent like cars, and water is completely different than pavement....and a vee that size isnt mean to get up to those speeds, it will be uncontrolable and probably flip or spin out before it even gets close to those speeds. and 70mph on a boat is a whole different world that 70mph on land..if you want those speeds, you will need a boat of an entirely different design...

someone is selling a 3 pointer that will do 70mph on another forum

http://www.rumrunnerracing.com/feforums/showthread.php?t=22146

there is also a vid too....the price hes selling it at is a bargain compared to the setup you would have to buy to get this vee even close to 70mph...



we're on a whole differnt chapter. i want to know if the marine setups could give me similar speeds on land. i want 35-42mph on water

no not the vee silly:rolleyes: 70mph+ with the tc4 on land is what i did with the hv. is the supervee controller any good? how would she doo with them fieagos?

[saleens7]

not good with feigaos....the SV esc is for 6 pole motors, the feigaos are 2 pole if i remember....quicksilver already tried the SV esc with a feigao and it didnt work...

oh...i got mixed up with the marine setups on land...yeah theyll probably get you similar speeds...

[part time]

Steven said he was waiting on some pulso boat controllers one of those should cut your cost down. he has not said what they would be selling for but i have seen the 70 amp for $80 elsewhere. also someone said they ran a feigao on the sv controller but i dont remember what one.

[ED66677]

If you're really short money, the cheapest you can get is Mystery 80Amp ESC on Ebay!... and a Feigao of course!

[skidooguymxz550]

If you're really short money, the cheapest you can get is Mystery 80Amp ESC on Ebay!... and a Feigao of course!

those don't look to bad but i'm guessing the old you get what you pay for adage applys?

[skidooguymxz550]

i also have a mamba maxx xontroller. would that be any good in a marine application?

[part time]

that would be alot better the hv maxx. just make sure u protect it from water and water cool it. then add a feigao from the ose store. this might even work to cool it http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=OSE-cool-plate just shrink wrap it to the top of the heatsinks.

[skidooguymxz550]

that would be alot better the hv maxx. just make sure u protect it from water and water cool it. then add a feigao from the ose store. this might even work to cool it http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=OSE-cool-plate just shrink wrap it to the top of the heatsinks.

ok cool!!! i think the mamba is already water proof. put it in a 4wd for some hardcore mud and snow and she was fine. what motor should i get?

[saleens7]

probably a 9xl...how many cells are you running? how many cells can the esc take?

id probably go for 14 cells with the 9xl..or 12 cells and an 8xl

[hkusp45]

http://206.206.85.209/xtdoc/Details.aspx?ProductCode=m-2144&store=mhzusa

We have used these with great sucess on the momba max speed controls.

[Jeepers]

what these guys are telling you for this boat is that you need some" motor mass" in that big boat! pics from left to right, 05 20 turn motor, Nemisis 8L, Nemisis 8XL, Neu 1521 1.5d. I use the black motor in my 30"mono,IMO you need a minium of an XL size motor (3rd from left) to move that boat with out damaging the motor with heat. if your wanting to use these motors on land in a car remember that these motors have 5mm shafts, compared to a novaks 1/8 (3.2mm) so pinion gears can be hard to come by, and the lenghts of the motors may not fit into some cars.

[skidooguymxz550]

well, it appears i'm going to save and get a good marine esc and motor. so far my dads funded about 75% of this project (i do all the work) and he wants to use the hvmaxx do to price. i've passed the info along to him that you gave me and he still wants to use it. it should go into thermo mode before she frys right?

on a happier note i'm almosts finished. i lowered the motor mount a good 1/2" and angled it. i invested in a blow torch and got the shaft done up nice. all i need to do is mount a servo and wire her up.


what do ya'll reccomend to seal up the transom? just clear below the waterline silicone?


jeepers, i didn't think about the pinion thing:confused: i guess i'll have to get a fieago and barracuda and keep the novak....oh darn:rolleyes:

[part time]

put the hv maxx on some of the car forums and sell it to fund the other one.

[Jeepers]

I understand what your dad is thinking but tell him that he will be spending alot more once you burn up that hvmaxx. I would sell it or keep it for your cars, but if you have to keep it, your other option would be to buy a smaller hull a BBY oval master 21" inch hull would probably work nice on that motor and you could use a 6-7 cell pack. that motor is just not a good choice for a large hull. what" FLUID " and others have told you is correct. you would be destroying a good motor for no reason.
I am building a BBY Scat Cat 26 for my Dad he also wants to go cheap so DO what i do tell him you need some money for accesories and then use it to buy the good stuff, of course this results in my dad wondering why his boat isnt done yet! (3months of build time and no finish in site yet):D yeah yeah I know thats MEAN:D

[skidooguymxz550]

yeah, x'n the hull ain't happinin. i'm just going to have to buy the system myself . i'm not letting the motor burn. it's just to cool in tc's and st's. besides i need it to power my sandrail gas for my v-10 will take a back seat:rolleyes:

my dads a little less cheap. he's willing to spend he just trys to find a way to skimp and then things brake. not to be an arrogant little ass but our real boat cost 100,000$ paid in cash so i can't figure out why he won't spend 100$ extra on rc. i want to buy the system so it's more equal shares in the ownership

[Jeepers]

yeah, x'n the hull ain't happinin. i'm just going to have to buy the system myself . i'm not letting the motor burn. it's just to cool in tc's and st's. besides i need it to power my sandrail gas for my v-10 will take a back seat:rolleyes:

my dads a little less cheap. he's willing to spend he just trys to find a way to skimp and then things brake. not to be an arrogant little ass but our real boat cost 100,000$ paid in cash so i can't figure out why he won't spend 100$ extra on rc. i want to buy the system so it's more equal shares in the ownership

my dads the same way I cant figure out why he wants to do it wrong instead of right! spending less money in the long run sounds better to me.

[ED66677]

skidooguymxz550... did your dad read all this thread?
this might be the time for him to understand!
look around get the information on different configuration, may some of us give you their exact configuration for some equivalent hull?
my boat:
36" Xcyclone (Kyosho Blue Streak copy)
Feigao 8XL
Mystery 80A ESC
12 cells
K42 prop

previous setup was 2x600 Race and K36/39 prop under 9 cell, I was pulling 3 times the nominal wattage, 300 per motor instead of 112, that's 600Watts total, and at this point efficiency was probably around 40 to 50%, now the Feigao pulls 900-1000 watts, speed is twice as with the 600's so this means efficiency is much higher

see this example, I started with 600's, 80amp brushed esc, GP2200 loose cells, did few runs, almost burn a 600, finaly had to purchase the 8XL, better batteries, hopefully the BL ESC didn't cost me more than 30$

and even this configuration has a mistake, a 10 or 12XL motor would be more appropriate for a 36" hull, so that's next step

what I'm trying to say here is I've started FE boat 6 or 7 month ago with almost no idea, try this, thry that, spend money here, start over from scratch, without even knowing that somewhere (on the OSE forum) there was many guys who have the answers to almost every single question I had, some very good guidelines were given on "Ideas on Building a Reliable BL System by ReddyWatts" thread, STICK TO IT, and it'll work better than you can imagine!

[skidooguymxz550]

thanks guys for all the responses. i showed my dad the thread and he still want's to see what will happen.

last night i got her out on the water with a crap 19t car motor and 6 cells. it actually planed and ran around for about ten minutes. the speed master harware is the greatest. adgusting the trim by turning one screw is sweet.


with this setup there was smoke (or steam) coming out each time i took the cover off but i didn't have water cooling.

i'll be testing it this weekend with the novak:mad:

[part time]

good luck with the novak. if it fries make him buy u what u want. and dont forget to check after the first minute for temps.

[ED66677]

was it smoke or steam, steam almost doesn't smell, but smoke, if it came out of the motor or esc, must have that particular smell of burnt electronics???

I can tell you what your dad will see happening, more smoke and nothing else!

[skidooguymxz550]

good luck with the novak. if it fries make him buy u what u want. and dont forget to check after the first minute for temps.


he's not gonna be happy i think



ed- there was no smell so i think it was steam.

[ED66677]

if it's steam this means :
-water is coming in the hull, leakage somewhere?
-water is touching hot surface, ESC or motor? both won't like it!!!

I'm afraid steam will turn into smoke soon!

[skidooguymxz550]

if it's steam this means :
-water is coming in the hull, leakage somewhere?
-water is touching hot surface, ESC or motor? both won't like it!!!

I'm afraid steam will turn into smoke soon!


the water isn't no biggy. i didn't have the hatch on real well and i used reverse to avoid weeds. i know reverse is a big no no. do the barracuda esc's have reverse?

thanks for the concern

[skidooguymxz550]

WELL........................... SHE LIVES!!!!! this boat is beothcyen!!!

first, everything got aboout hottub warm. not bad at all. i'm running a 40mm prop

performance, insanely fast with great mid range torque. at 3/4 throttle she starts chine walking and when you crank it up to full it skips till it blows over:eek: luckily the landing was good.

probally about a 40mph boat

i'm already trimmed down so should i put on tabs?


my dad likes it so much he wants to fund a big cat to live out offshore racing dreams in small scale:D


this is the first hi performance thing that has lasted a whole run that i've evermade:rolleyes:

[ED66677]

where's the Center of Gravity (COG), if she blows over everytime this might need to be adjusted? move batteries on the front, 1" at a time...
that's just an idea!

[skidooguymxz550]

cool, thanks!!!!:) this boat makes me very happy. i'll grab a vid of it today

[Jeepers]

GREAT! cant wait to see the vid!

how long did you run it for? and how many cells?

[skidooguymxz550]

well, i put it in the water this mornign to run it. the steering worked but i hit the throttle and nothing. i brought it in and opened it up and smelt burnt electronics. me and my dad cracked open the speedo (source of smell) and found a row of corroded board and chips and several burnt ones. we figure water got in via the cooling system.:mad:

it ran fast for about 4 minutes on 12 cells.

but the electronics temps were fine. luke to hottub warm for everything. after a run you can keep your finger on everthing

[skidooguymxz550]

well i want to run it this weekend so i'm outfitting with my mamba.
i also took some pics of my complete interioir. i lowered the motor mount since the first pics.


i also taped on some paper to get an idea for graphics.
wadda think?

the blue is purple. the camera is just crap


http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g285/skidooguymxz/100_0378.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g285/skidooguymxz/100_0377.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g285/skidooguymxz/100_0379.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g285/skidooguymxz/100_0380.jpg

[hammertime]

first gwet a better cooling jacket for the motor.......also what mamba is that......wich kv

[skidooguymxz550]

i decided i'm not gonna run it. i'll just wait for the hv to comeback. the kv is 7700

wadda ya think about the graphics?

[SJFE]

The alinment looks good. I am worried about the motor. IMO is is a little small for the package. I would go with a feigao XL. be sure and only run it for about 30 seconds before cheking your temps.

[LJH]

I personally do not think the 7700 will be long for this world in that boat. 7700KV is extremely high wind. you will have to turn a VERY small prop on a low cell count for the motor to be happy. I don't want to be a na-sayer but I also don't want to see you blow anything up.

Cheers,
Jim

[skidooguymxz550]

thanks. i decided not to use. i decided i'd just wait for my big motor to come back. no comments on the graphics?

[ED66677]

in this thread (http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=271) you'll see that your hull needs a 12XL that can pull 55amps max (Feigao specs), if you go for 16 cells (almost 20V) you'll pull more than 1000watts, a 700 can handle 500-600max, so that's half! choice is made!

[skidooguymxz550]

big update time!!!! i got the motor back so she was running again. i also got a video of it that i'll upload on monday when i get home.

this morning i ran it and she was running great...... till it blew up!!!! yes blew up!!! i was about 4 minutes into the run and i heard a boom and the hatch blew off (little tape held it on) when i brought it in a battery had blown up. i found it odd becuase the other electronics and batts were at a normal temp... what would cause that?

heres the cool part, its on video:D

[ED66677]

I would say a bad cell! or you simply pulled more than bat can handle!

[Jeepers]

quit teasing us by telling us about it, put the video on!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[skidooguymxz550]

i will monday. i'm up north right now and our computer here is runnin at 24k and i don't have the camera software on it.

[skidooguymxz550]

my blow up video and pics don't want to upload. kodak easyshare sucks!!! heres the running vid... she goes alot faster in calm water and disreagard everything stupid me and my family says

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_fomgOdMKKU"> </param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_fomgOdMKKU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"> </embed> </object>

[saleens7]

..................

[skidooguymxz550]

here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fomgOdMKKU

[Jeepers]

what no explosion! whats the deal?:D

[skidooguymxz550]

what no explosion! whats the deal?:D


kodass easy share sucks nuts!!! i've tried uploading 4 times getting a few more pics each time. theres 204 pics on the card so it takes forever and errors out. it drives me nuts

[saleens7]

....................

[skidooguymxz550]

yes. my moms a terrible camera person. i told her keep it on the boat

[Old Sloppy]

with the diferrent motor and controller will i get the same speed on land? i broke into the 70's with my tc4 on the maxx


Did you know 40 mph on the water = 100 mph on land ?

I learned this at a professional boat race many, many years ago.

so 70 mph on land = 28 mph on the water.

Harry S.

[ReddyWatts]

Harry can you explain that a little deeper by telling how to you came up with that calculation?

[FE_Chris]

I just got done reading this thread, nice looking boat. So you are running the HV-maxx without problems? I never got to see which HV-maxx it was. The original 4400kv motor or one of the new ones. I wanted to install one of mine in a boat, but I sold them cause I never thaught they would perform cause of the high RPM.

Also, I have a mamba maxx 5700 combo, I thaught about putting that in something small like a bby 21", or a small fuller hull. Still not sure if the KV is to high or not...IMO.

The video looks good, that thing flies! needs some trimming though ;-)

[skidooguymxz550]

no problems at all except one fried because it got wet. they are pretty hot to the touch after a run but it was the same deal in cars. yes it is the 4400

thanks for the boat compliments. she goes pretty good in the vid but she goes to the point were she'll blow over in calm water

[skidooguymxz550]

well after another time frying i ordered up a fieago xl14 and a hydra 120 with some big props. probally be a drop is speed but oh well.




i'm going to put my hvmaxx in this little honey......
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g285/skidooguymxz/100_0363.jpg