Smoke?

[alvinsmith75]

I know this is gonna sound crazy. I ran my UL-1 today for the first time since December. 4900mah 2s neu lipo's, m645 octura 2 blade, 1/2in. air damn, and 15/16th deep strut setting with a tad of negative. The boat ran the best it has ever run. The setup worked beautiful. It is 62degrees here so I heated my lipos' to about 95 degrees. After about 3 minutes of running the boat stopped. I let off the throttle completely and then re-applied. The boat took off fine, so I brought it back to shore to check it. When I untaped it and began to lift the hatch I noticed a small puff of smoke. I grabbed my temp gun and began to check temps. They were as follows:motor 105, batteries 98, and ESC 97. With that being said does anyone have any idea where the smoke may have came from? Right now everything is working fine. I am worried because the last time this happeded was with a hydra 240 except my boat didn't stop, it just let out a puff after a run, everything was working fine, then the next time I ran it the esc fried.
Please advise,
Alvin

[detox]

My UL1 did the same thing using a detunged 645, but I did not notice smoke. I am thinking maybe the big prop is causing esc to shut down (pulling TOO many amps).

[detox]

Were you on and off throttle more than once during run? Stopping then starting

[alvinsmith75]

Never came to a complete stop. I would say more like 3/4 to full throttle.

[Eyekandyboats]

could be just your motor melting a bit of excessive plastic.

[MarkJnK]

Is the prop shaft well lubricated? Could be the stuffing tube getting hot and starting to cook. I had this happen on my Mono a couple times, then the flex shaft must have gotten so hot that it seized inside the stuffing tube and snapped, after melting a section of stuffing tube.

Just a thought.

[Ub Hauled]

Alvin, things heat up more then necessary when you run at something less then full throttle,
if the boat does not stay in the water at full throttle you need to change something.
What color was the smoke? Does it smell like burnt electronics? Sometimes a little lub
fries during the run and once you open the hatch, poof! If this is the case, don't worry,
it's just oil...
If it fries let the guys from hobby Services deal with it, they were great when my speedo burnt and messed the motor up as well... I had a new one in my hands a week after they got it from me.

[AndyKunz]

STEAM perhaps?

Andy

[D. Newland]

Ditto the smell question: What did the smoke smell like?

Could the cause of the boat stopping be the radio failsafe (assuming it has one)? How far out was it when it stopped?

I had a little bit of smoke in my P mono a few weeks ago. No odor to it, but I did run the motor longer than it's been run before. I'm chaulking it up to some type of water/oil in the motor that burned off. I don't think it came from the ESC. I've run it 4 times since then and no more smoke/steam/Lost ghost.

[Grimracer]

Are you or did you place some fuel tubing over the stuffing tube/shaft exit on the motor side? If you did and did not oil it, it can burn the tubing (smoke)..

Having said this I dont recommend a X-645mm prop.. others might but if you are 3 mins into a X-645mm prop, you are past the limit of what the ESC can handle in the first place, and, doing so for 3 min.. Toss a Eagle Tree capture devise in the boat and let us know.. I bet you are WELL over 70 amps on this prop. .. ask me how i know.... lol.. I LOVE TESTING........

Please back off on the prop! Thanks!

Grim

[raptor347]

I'm guilty of recomending the prop in the first place thinking more racing than extended sport running. I would call a 645 a race prop. That means your going to run a race distance/duration. Think 1 1/3 mile and under 2 minutes. If it didn't smell bad, it was likely steam but look at the end of the capacitor and see if it's bulged. You likely hit the voltage cut off.

Try an x640, 40x57/3, 42x55, 38x55 (my favorite for run time and all around playing).

[alvinsmith75]

Ok 1st answer
prop shaft/flex cable was cleanes and lubed before that run.
2nd- boat handled beautifully @ full throttle enabling me to slow down only for turns. Thanks to Brian for the air damn advise.
3rd Smoke was white
4th didn't smell like burnt electronics
5th Steam don't know
6th Tactic radio-about 50 ft away-Seriously doubt radio issue
7th no fuel tubing over stuffing tube
8th End of cap not perfectly flat-maybe slightly bulged
9th Batteries were @ 7.4v each when I put them on charger
New finding-A dark(almost oil colored) liquid @ cap. end of esc, on hull bottom, and on cover.
Thanks for the help guys. I'll post pics soon of liquid. BTW the boat ran 48 on GPS.
Alvin

[Ub Hauled]

oh oh...
that may be the liquid from inside the cap, if that's the case,
don't run the ESC!!!
Check the cap closely and see if it looks like there was a leak...

[alvinsmith75]

Liquid on cover
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo229/alvinsmith75/DSCN0202.jpg
on hull bottom
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo229/alvinsmith75/DSCN0203.jpg
on cap
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo229/alvinsmith75/DSCN0205.jpg
on finger LOL
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo229/alvinsmith75/DSCN0207.jpg

[detox]

My UL1 capacitor appears bulged also, but no liquid. I have never seen this happen using the SV27 ESC with large props.

Look at this new UL1 esc in picture...notice new capacitor end is flat with no bulging.

[Ub Hauled]

I think you have a blown cap my friend...

[WaterWalker]

Are you or did you place some fuel tubing over the stuffing tube/shaft exit on the motor side? If you did and did not oil it, it can burn the tubing (smoke)..

Having said this I dont recommend a X-645mm prop.. others might but if you are 3 mins into a X-645mm prop, you are past the limit of what the ESC can handle in the first place, and, doing so for 3 min.. Toss a Eagle Tree capture devise in the boat and let us know.. I bet you are WELL over 70 amps on this prop. .. ask me how i know.... lol.. I LOVE TESTING........

Please back off on the prop! Thanks!

Grim
Grim...

Props... Brand new UL-1... took your advice and got a Grim L38X55, also picked up a Graupner K-45, Oct X642, and Oct m445 to test with as well... As I have never balanced / sharpened a prop... Yet... But, sure have been reading about it and got the AquaCraft prop balancer...

Further prop advice... ??? ??? I do Not want to burn anything up ;'''''''(

Luke
Sumter, SC

[WaterWalker]

Alvin...

Sure hope it's a minor hicup, maybe grease off the coupler or shaft... ??? Gravity didn't get it on the hatch... (???)

Also... "Air Dam Advice" ??? ??? is/was ??? Much interest...

Thanks,

Luke

[sailr]

Two of the guys in my group are running Oct M642 and Oct M645 props. They're both having problems! I'm staying away from those props. They seem to be too big for the ESC! I'm running the stock strut setting with the smaller Grim 3 blade and getting just about the same speed as them and everything is cool and happy in the boat.

[alvinsmith75]

OK next question. I have run the sv27 motor before on the hydra 120 with NO LUCK. The motor would get very hot on the hydra but run fine on the sv esc. The big question is "Will the ul1 motor work on the castle esc?" I will buy a hydra 240 and put in there so I can keep my m645 prop. I know I would be fine with the 120 but for what I pay for the 240 it just isn't worth it.
Thanks,
Alvin

[sailr]

Most like the 'timing' is set wrong on the hydra for the SV27 motor! That's why it's over heating. I don't know what the the correct timing and PWM settings are for the Aquacraft motors. Maybe you could call Castle?

[Ub Hauled]

Alvin, what version of the software/firmware were you using with your SV motor? There was a big problem with version 1.03 firmware, when set to "normal" timing the timing was actually "Extreme" (16+ degrees)... that is really a lot of timing, that's why everything was getting hot. with the new version of the firmware (1.04) that problem was solved. You should update your firmware/software and re-calibrate your Tx to your Rx... once that is done, set your timing to 4 degrees and tweak as necessary.

[alvinsmith75]

Thanks guys. I did have 1.03 in that set up.

[alvinsmith75]

How about this? UL1 motor, m645 prop, 2-4s Thunder Power 25c 3850mah lipos (in parallel of course) and an Etti 150 ESC from Steven. Would this be a solid setup for sport running? Also would the Esc, prop and battery setup work with a Neu 1515 1y? This would be my first Etti ESC and I would like to make sure it would be capable of handling the Neu motor because it could end up in the UL1 one day.

[LuckyDuc]

It might be good insurance to run an external BEC like a Dimension Engineering Park BEC or Castle Creations BEC too. That will remove the burden of stepping down the voltage from the ESC, and keep it running cooler as well. I do this with all of my 4S + power setups on my EDF jets.

[sailr]

We have found the M645 prop is too much for the UL-1 motor. Don't use any more than a 640-642. Not sure about the Neu. We are not running that big a prop on our P monos (4S) with the Neu 15151Y. Best prop is the X447/3 , relieved and de-eared! The Etti will handle the Neu OK, it's the prop load you have to worry about. No matter the capability of the ESC and motor, over-amped is over-amped!

You are also pretty limited with the 3850mAh batteries. Our group stays with the 5000's.

As for the UL-1, why not stick with the stock setup? We're getting speeds over 50mph with the grimracer 3 blade props! More mAh does give you more power also.


How about this? UL1 motor, m645 prop, 2-4s Thunder Power 25c 3850mah lipos (in parallel of course) and an Etti 150 ESC from Steven. Would this be a solid setup for sport running? Also would the Esc, prop and battery setup work with a Neu 1515 1y? This would be my first Etti ESC and I would like to make sure it would be capable of handling the Neu motor because it could end up in the UL1 one day.

[Capt. Crash]

As for the UL-1, why not stick with the stock setup? We're getting speeds over 50mph with the grimracer 3 blade props!

Good idea...it runs great on the grim props but what I want to know is:

Who?
How fast?
With what setup?

I've not seen anyone post anything at or above 50mph yet in race trim with the turn fin attached. I got 49.4 one time and 49.0 several others but haven't gotten mine to 50mph.

[Brushless55]

As for the UL-1, why not stick with the stock setup? We're getting speeds over 50mph with the grimracer 3 blade props! More mAh does give you more power also.

Sailr, what Grim prop gets you over 50mph?

[MarkJnK]

More mAh does give you more power also.

What did I miss here? I thought that voltage=power, while the mAH=size of fuel tank? How does mAH provide more power?

p.s. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I'm honestly curious and want to learn.

[sailr]

40/52/3 and 40/57/3. Rounded rudder. Small tweek to the strut angle and fairly well forward CG.



Sailr, what Grim prop gets you over 50mph?

[MarkJnK]

Rounded rudder

Can you explain this a bit more? So the flat bottom of the rudder (which provides some lift I've read) is hindering the speed? Do you have a pic of the rounded rudder?

[sailr]

You are basically correct. NOT a smart a$$ question...really!

It had to be proven to me through actually comparison of larger mAh batteries to lower mAh batteries. I can't give you the exacto mundo scientific explanation nor am I interested in it. All I know (by proving it) that more amps SHOVE the volts through more quickly, forcefully, and efficiently...or allow more amps to be delivered to the ESC/Motor, thus more power because VOLTS X AMPS = WATTS/

Trust me. (yeah, I know...about the bridge in brooklyn, etc.) Prove it to yourself. It really does work!


What did I miss here? I thought that voltage=power, while the mAH=size of fuel tank? How does mAH provide more power?

p.s. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I'm honestly curious and want to learn.

[Brushless55]

Thanks sailr..
I got a good deal on tower, not as good as you ! ah

Hey what do you think about the Carbon Graupner 3 blade props?
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=grp-2299.39
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=grp-2299.42

[sailr]

The carbon props don't seem to hold up. Too much power. I've seen posts of people throwing blades on them.


Thanks sailr..
I got a good deal on tower, not as good as you ! ah

Hey what do you think about the Carbon Graupner 3 blade props?
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=grp-2299.39
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=grp-2299.42

[Brushless55]

The carbon props don't seem to hold up. Too much power. I've seen posts of people throwing blades on them.

Nuts!
they look cool and cheaper..

[sailr]

Sorry, don't have any pics. I'll try to get some this weekend. I have read in many different places, including at least on UL-1 thread in one of the forums that the rudder bottom and leading edge should be rounded. I think it is to kill the lift that the flat bottom can create but don't quote me on that.


Can you explain this a bit more? So the flat bottom of the rudder (which provides some lift I've read) is hindering the speed? Do you have a pic of the rounded rudder?

[sailr]

Yeah, that's why AQ boats come with plastic props. They KNOW you'll be back to buy the expensive metal ones! :zip-up:


Nuts!
they look cool and cheaper..

[Doby]

Nuts!
they look cool and cheaper..

Don't be so quick to discount the graupner K series. I use them quite a bit and have never thrown a blade. Use them to find the size that works best and then get a metal one if you want. They have held up well on everything from my SV to my DF 33 on 4s and 5s setups.

[Brushless55]

Don't be so quick to discount the graupner K series. I use them quite a bit and have never thrown a blade. Use them to find the size that works best and then get a metal one if you want. They have held up well on everything from my SV to my DF 33 on 4s and 5s setups.

I still want to try them bro.:thumbup1:

I like the looks of the 3 blade versions, just not sure what will work great.

[AndyKunz]

What did I miss here? I thought that voltage=power, while the mAH=size of fuel tank? How does mAH provide more power?

p.s. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I'm honestly curious and want to learn.

The lower resistance in the larger cells allows more voltage to get to the motor.

mAH = milli Amp Hour - it's a rating of battery capacity (fuel tank size). It means that the battery can supply X milli Amps for one hour, or 1 milli Amp for X hours (roughly).

A milliAmp is 1/1000th of an amp. A 4000mAH cell can provide 4 amps for one hour.

Andy

[sailr]

Good to know! The trick is finding the ones that will fit directly on a 3/16" shaft with drive dog and not screw-ons. Which ones have you used that worked good for you? I run a DF33 on 4S also in addition to the UL-1.

Thanks for the tip!


Don't be so quick to discount the graupner K series. I use them quite a bit and have never thrown a blade. Use them to find the size that works best and then get a metal one if you want. They have held up well on everything from my SV to my DF 33 on 4s and 5s setups.

[sailr]

Thanks Andy! Now I can sound more intelligent next time somebody asks! :rockon2:
The lower resistance in the larger cells allows more voltage to get to the motor.

mAH = milli Amp Hour - it's a rating of battery capacity (fuel tank size). It means that the battery can supply X milli Amps for one hour, or 1 milli Amp for X hours (roughly).

A milliAmp is 1/1000th of an amp. A 4000mAH cell can provide 4 amps for one hour.

Andy

[Doby]

Good to know! The trick is finding the ones that will fit directly on a 3/16" shaft with drive dog and not screw-ons. Which ones have you used that worked good for you? I run a DF33 on 4S also in addition to the UL-1.

Thanks for the tip!

Its not that tricky to find;

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=58

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=59

I am currently running a K54mm on my DF and a K48mm on my SV. Ran the DF yesterday in about 3 inches of chop and the prop was in and out of the water quite a bit. No problems with the blades when going from fully unloaded (air borne) to fully loaded (in the water).