F1h2o

[Returntohome]

My F1 project is taking shape, although it's a big model it's still tight in the fuselage, so I've printed a tower so everything fits in the rear end.

[Returntohome]

Progress is slow but sure :crying:

[RandyatBBY]

wow that is a neat looking Out Board motor. do you have a link to it?

[Returntohome]

Thanks, I designed and built it from scratch using a small lathe and 3d printer. I now have 3 prop outboards and 2 jet drive outboards also designed by me. Let me find a you tube link.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=PiVPsz7CdBI&feature=share7

[NativePaul]

Nice, could you make one with a shorter leg? For best results the botom of the prop should be level with or slightly above the bottom of the sponsons. you couls always raise up the one you have, but it looks like that would put the cowling well above the top of the cabin and look a bit funny.

[Returntohome]

I do have ways of raising the engine, but so far I've found my props suck air in and loose traction if too near the surface. Which is why I added the hydrofoil cum anti ventilation plate. However I could produce a special short shaft version of my outboard just for this model, the mid section being 20 to 25mm shorter. Instead of filling with oil I would pack it with high quality grease, sealed for life, this would help me make it shorter. I think testing on the water will show which is the best way. I might make a battery bay cover just for testing with a gps window and a watt meter.
What will be the effect of it being too low, is it just loss of speed, or will it try and take off, ie poor handling?

[RandyatBBY]

Well it looks like you are having fun and that is what it is all about.

[Returntohome]

F1h2o


Boat club yesterday morning, then try to sort printer it's thrown a massive wobbly. After much head scratching I think it was in need of a new nozzle, which seems to have done the trick. Then I finished the wrap, with teatime upon me I started masking off the windows. I had to be called down for dinner, whoops.
I didn't want to leave the tapes on overnight so went back to finish it, only a short drying time and peeled off the tapes, wow it brought it to life, pleased that went well.

[Returntohome]

Pleased that went well, getting all these on without messing any up is quite a challenge. Wing mirrors next.

[Returntohome]

F1h2o Italian job


It's been a difficult day, notice the red wing mirror is now white. The red didn't dry, so spent an hour rubbing them down , repainting, white probably looks better anyway. In between that I have been trying to fix the printer, at one time it just kept switching off . Anyway I've ordered a new hot end from aliexpress so will have to do without for a while, hope that sorts it.

[Returntohome]

F1h2o Italian job!
Photo 1, a short length of 1.6mm wire, no bends needed, gives steering servo an easy job.
Photo 2, Seems very close without a wire extension, maybe I could make those brass tube adapters in the photo an inch longer and solder the esc wires directly to them. Covered in heatshrink of course.
Printer....I watched a utube video of how to clean out the hot end on my anycubic vyper, excellent, so will try it, it's been used for over a year so guess it's overdue for a service. I can recommend this printer, which I did to club mate Philip, he loves it too.

[Returntohome]

177700177701

[Bande1]

That is a beauty! I fell in love with my old tunnel hull someone at my club gave me. I de-converted it from electric to nitro and man it has opened my eyes to how fun petrol is. You should look into a used K&B for that bad boy!

177707

[Returntohome]

177714Our club doesn't allow combustion engines due to pollution and noise. Also I can design and build my own electric outboards which to me is more satisfying than the actual running. If they did allow them I love those arrow shark 1/4 scale with actual petrol engines, they look and sound like the real thing

[NativePaul]

I do have ways of raising the engine, but so far I've found my props suck air in and loose traction if too near the surface. Which is why I added the hydrofoil cum anti ventilation plate. However I could produce a special short shaft version of my outboard just for this model, the mid section being 20 to 25mm shorter. Instead of filling with oil I would pack it with high quality grease, sealed for life, this would help me make it shorter. I think testing on the water will show which is the best way. I might make a battery bay cover just for testing with a gps window and a watt meter.
What will be the effect of it being too low, is it just loss of speed, or will it try and take off, ie poor handling?

Both, the main benefit of surface drive is reducing drag by getting most of your leg and prop hub out of the water, but a surface piercing prop will also have prop lift (high and low lift props are available but even a low lift will be lifting the rear and thus pushing the nose down to some extent) so you will likely needless trim angle. Performance aside surface drive gives you a rooster tail like the full size ones have.
Cavitation is the downside to surface drive, there is really no way around it, they will do it and you lose low speed acceleation because of it in order to gain high end speed, but the props are designed for it with an ethos more along the lines of grabbing cups of water and throwing them backwards to provide thrust, than the traditional submerged prop screwing it's way through the water.
You have a surface drive prop running submerged but close to the surface which is not the optimal combo, if you decide not to lift the prop up switching to a prop designed to run submerged like an eco or fsrv prop would increase your performance and reduce your cavitation.

[Returntohome]

177746F1h2o Italian job
Thanks Paul you explained it well. Made a carrier cum work station for the f1 all ready now for tomorrow's meeting. She is heavy and will sit low in the water, but should rise up when moving.
The rear battery has leap froged the front battery into a forward position, this brings the cg somewhere near. I could try the jet outboard on this boat to reduce weight at the back, and there is always the option to build a shorter/lighter prop outboard.
Getting all the wires and cowl in place is tricky , done by having the rear end loose at the same time.

[Returntohome]

It went well, she is easy to stear good turning circle and runs in straight line. Too much spray caused by engine too low down, so when parts for the printer come from China that will be the first job. Best speed of the day was 24mph. She is capable of more by bringing the prop higher I'm sure.
I slipped up by cutting slots to allow the rear end to fit, it let's water in. So I have reinstated the wood and cut the slots in the plastic rear end instead, see photos.177756177757

[Returntohome]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=5gcgP0QzrAA&si=9U0ItOM7A4u0zB7T

[Returntohome]

F1 h2o177762
I found the blue mount in my bits, it's 21mm higher than the white one. Then by pure luck putting the steering arm under its mount and the coupling below, it ended up perfectly inline. So good to go again, leak sorted and engine raised.177761

[Returntohome]

F1h2o Italian job


The photo shows the engine 20mm higher, I don't think it looks too bad. I have made some parts ready to lift it another 10mm , but first it has to pass test number 1, ie. 20mm, got a feeling I might be disappointed with the result, maybe my engine isn't designed to work this high up. Thinking back to its development it was all about removing ventilation, so this is going against the grain. We shall see this morning.

[Returntohome]

F1h2o Italian job
Wow it worked, 20mm higher made a huge difference, so as predicted a few seconds needed to get going, but then it flies off the mark , skimming across the surface. 32mph then 33.3 mph. But the peak amps were 222A and 230A respectively.....not sure how I got away with that. My esc is rated 150A but burst amps is 900A. I am guessing she only peaks in the few seconds needed to plane.
Dropping down prop diameter from 46mm to 42mm still produced 30mph with a peak of 168 amps.
Just to try I raised the engine up a further 10mm, too much, now she struggled to plane and the handling was spoilt, it did manage 29mph on 46mm prop at 132 amps.
So now I have lowered it 5mm , bringing it to 25mm up from the original position, in the hope of good speed and handling at lower amps.
I kept checking temperatures throughout and nothing got much over 30 degrees except the oil in the gearbox which hit 36 degrees. So the new cooling method of taking it from the outboard into the esc then out the back of the boat works really well.

[NativePaul]

I'm glad to hear that it worked out for you.

[Returntohome]

F1h2o Italian job
Thanks Paul. So I tried the 25mm up position, and managed to flip her over, now I know she floats upside-down. I think I will stick with the 20mm up position, which I changed back too at the lake. No water damage apparent except for the watt meter so good for another run without the watt meter in-line. Maybe that made a difference in current flow because a new record was achieved 36.3mph. (58.4kph)
I have ordered a 44mm 3blade ally tfl prop , thinking this might be my regular go to prop when not looking for breaking speed records.
I can alter the trim angle on the outboard, but the huge forces involved can easily alter my settings, maybe look at altering the design.

[NativePaul]

Yeah consistent trim angles are critical, I had a boat that was handling all wonky and after some head scratching it turned out that the single m5 bolt on the strut wasn't up to the taks of keeping it in place and it would allow the trim to set itself; while I think that a bigger strut and bracket for 2 bolts is the answer for the next boat, as a quick and easy fix I glued 2 sandpaper "washers" back to back and put that between the bracket and strut which improved the friction between them and prevented further unwanted movement.

[Returntohome]

After today's meeting I have a long list of alterations to work on, but isn't that the way.
It was always intended to be scale with enough speed to make it realistic. With hindsight I should have saved weight wherever possible.
There is a new video to watch.

[srislash]

After today's meeting I have a long list of alterations to work on, but isn't that the way.
It was always intended to be scale with enough speed to make it realistic. With hindsight I should have saved weight wherever possible.
There is a new video to watch. what kind of running weight are you at? I would think 6 to 7lbs would be a goal
But honestly I love the look and you’ve done stellar work on this.

Shawn

[Returntohome]

Thank you very kind....so I weighed it today. With 2 x 3s batteries it weighs 13lbs, or 5.9kg. I said it was heavy, but maybe that adds a realistic touch as to the way it runs, she can fair skip along. It's the fastest boat I have powered by my own design gear drive outboard . It's nice to know my outboards are so capable at reaching good speed. Without engine and batteries, bare boat weight, about 3.6kg. 8lbs

[Returntohome]

F1h2o Italian job177850
New record speed this morning. 37.7 mph. 60.67kph. I feel this could be the maximum, nice to break the 60kph mark.
The water was flat calm so great for record breaking. The trim was a degree down on last time which made the difference.
I had to get the rescue boat out at one point when the 200amp watt meter stopped working, another for the bin

[Returntohome]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=EGL0yppl_XU&si=ev2Ie7xZBIAddwZx

[Returntohome]

this must be the hardest site to get pictures and videos posted, all other forums I'm on its so easy,,,,,anyway it didn't work so here is the link.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=u3MUd8_X6JU&si=M9NF92FYq8b2nTr0

[NativePaul]

When you make a post there are 5 buttons on the top right of the post with pictures on the one with the painting of a tree in a frame uploads photos, and the one with a frame of film is for uploading from YouTube.

[srislash]

That is looking real good! One thing about it being a bit heavy is it won?t blow over so east in a cross wind. I?ve seen a few Stilleto?s and they seemed to blow over easy.

[srislash]

And the picture and video can be put on the screen by touching the tabs on the upper right of this picture177874

[Returntohome]

177896177897F1h2o Italian job
Otherwise known as a " Dumas hotshot 45" . Been investigating its background and even managed to find some photos and you tube videos. Looks like it was a well thought of hull by American company Dumas. No modern electrics in those days so they were all glow engine powered. You could even buy it as a fiber glass hull, but mine is the wooden kit version. There must be a few still around and now I've seen it painted as per photos its not really an ugly duckling maybe that was a bit unkind.

[Returntohome]

177911F1h2o engine

Success, must have been a glitch in the slicer, not had that before. So the gearbox half cleaned up really well , all the support came off cleanly, helped by being build plate only support, I'm learning. The finish is so good I went straight into painting. Then I made some parts on the lathe, the vertical support for the bearings and the shaft. I found the shaft needed a chamfer to allow the oil seal to slide on, as it will be the last part fitted after filling with oil.
Rain forecast so might get some more done today.

[Returntohome]

177913F1h2o engine


Got a lot done due to bad weather, and more rain this morning, I like rain, more gets done in the workshop.
That little 2 part jig I made for lining up the motor mounting plate got used again, it works a treat.
For the cowl I added the air scoop to the drawing and tried to combine it, it wouldn't have it no matter what I tried. So I saved it anyway as an stl, then on cura sliced it, no problem, it should print OK.
To produce this short version of my engine the motor mounting has been sunk 10mm into a shortened mid section, a total saving of 30mm.

[Returntohome]

F1h2o engine


Another day on the lathe, so now we have a horizontal shaft with thread for a 5mm nyloc nut. The dog drive was turned to suit some small errors in the shaft, then very carefully cut and file the dog tooth drive bit. Never built an engine this quickly before, there is a bit less to do with this design and I can see it being a little bit lighter which is great. I need to order a motor, msq 4082, from aliexpress I like the 6mm connection plugs on these, some well known brands only have 4mm, why when it's going to be handling high amps.177920177921

[Returntohome]

177981177982
F1h2o engine
Just had a short break in the Lake District. Cartmel the first day, where we bought some of the famous sticky toffee puddings for which it is famous, the recipe was invented back in the thirtys by a local chef. Then next day after a full English breakfast we drove up the east side of Coniston Lake past Brantwood the home of John Ruskin, and on to the Bluebird cafe. Named after Donald Campbells jet powered boat in which he lost his life on 4th of January 1967. He was trying to get the record of 300mph , having done a successful run north to South where he went well past 300mph through the measured kilometre he turned round and without refueling, less weight, he set off back on the fateful run, not even allowing his own wake to settle. He was not happy with the boat as heard over the radio then it seems the engine flamed out , shortly after it flipped over backwards and did cartwheels before sinking. His body was not recovered until many years later. Next year we may go up to watch the speed trials at the end of October and get to see some F1 boats!
Spent yesterday afternoon when we got back making bits for my F1 engine, see photos. I have realised that now the motor is lower water will collect inside, so may need a drainage hole somewhere.

[Returntohome]

177999178000

F1h2o engine
I have made the right angle copper connectors to be soldered to the esc. Because the engine is much shorter they too could be a lot shorter. I thought copper was going to be soft to drill, not so I broke 2 centering drills, you live and learn.
The cleaver type prop arrived from prop shop and fitted perfectly, interesting to see how it performs.
I added a 5mm drain hole in the side of the mid section, I didn't want the coupling running in water.
The msq motor motor arrived yesterday, not taken long at all, so nothing stopping me now.

[srislash]

Man that O/B is looking fabulous. You’ve got something there

[Returntohome]

178010178011178012178013
Thank you
F1h2o engine
All ready to test tomorrow weather permitting. All went well today although using black sealant on a white engine is maybe not a good idea. ��

[NativePaul]

It looks fantastic, good luck.

[Returntohome]

F1h2o Italian job
Disaster yesterday, I was charging round the lake when suddenly I lost most of the drive, and it didn't sound great. So I limped back in and had to wait till I got in the workshop to find the fault. Took the motor out to find the rubber cross in the coupling had completely disintegrated, but that wasn't the cause.
I split open the gearbox to find one gear had a loose grubscrew I have used the wrong loctite, silly mistake has cost me dear.
For the coupling I can elongate the holes in the motor mounting plate to allow it to line up better, its only a fraction.
I am upset because this gearbox was completely oil tight, I won't make this mistake again.
Our club chairman is taking my stand with 3 outboards on to Blackpool show this weekend, great cos I'm not going this year.
Ps. The good news is the water cooling works perfectly now that I have sawn 5mm off the pick up.

[srislash]

Well, rest assured that you are not the only one that has been bitten by the gremlins. It is a learning curve especially on experimental things. But it sounds like the fix is well in hand.

Shawn

[Returntohome]

F1h2o Italian job
https://youtu.be/TI8mAIbQlnw?si=2b8snVUZgw2OTX8k
Finally got the engine rebuilt and refitted to the F1. So if this bad storm subsides by tomorrow I can have a run.
Our club chairman took my engine stand to Blackpool show last weekend, it attracted lots of attention. People were asking what company makes these, when he said they are 3d printed by one of our members, there was disbelief.178051

[Returntohome]

178070178071
F1h2o Italian job
The gremlins struck again, this time the gear moved enough to disengage, then when stripping down i broke the casing. Well on the way now in making a new gearbox casing, with 1mm alteration to the lip that holds the vertical shaft, to make sure the gears are meshing. Then I machined the support tube to take a newly made cap, designed to stop any movement of the oilseal which in turn would let the bearings move and so disengage the gears, which is what I think happened. My other engines don't have this problem because of a removable top bearing holder, to allow oil filling and emptying. Because I used strong loctite last time I can't get the gear off, so that means I can't get the top bearing out for oil filling so thinking of packing it with grease before sealing the two halves together, will it work?

[srislash]

That’s a shame. Loctite always comes loose with heat. Perhaps a solder iron would localize the heat enough to release it. How strong of Loctite? Red, green?

[Returntohome]

F1h2o engine


Thanks Shawn i will try that next time, (I used red loctite) I left it and used horizons hobby marine grease, put plenty in around the gears. Then clamped the two halves together with Rtv sealant, so far seems OK. The gearboxes get quite warm to the touch when out on the lake even when the water is cold so I guess the grease will thin down when it's warm. Final coat of paint last night so will assemble it today ready to try tomorrow. The new coupling faired better than the last one due to being lined up better I guess.

[Returntohome]

F1h2o Italian job
It worked! Had a great morning running her up and down the lake. With some full throttle runs she looks the part , nose in the air, tons of spray flying off the back. I thought it might be noisy with grease instead of oil, but not at all sounds just the same. Time will tell if the top bearing in the vertical tube gets lubrication. Shame Paul didn't have his camera, maybe next time.
I found the cap head screws holding the battery bay a bit awkward, so I have used the thumb screws I bought originally, much better don't need a driver now either, see photo.
Even reduced water getting into the boat to an acceptable level, using sealant on the rear section.
The extra cooling provided by the air scoop on top of the cowl is working a treat, the wires and motor staying nice and cool.
I don't get long on a 5000mah battery, so been looking at something bigger , I guess 6000 wouldn't make much difference, but 10,000 might. Any ideas welcome.178077

[srislash]

Glad it went well. Always good feeling when it comes together. As far as batteries go, I always find ones in the 4000mah range have a good fit and are cost effective. HobbyKing graphene are good when in stock

[Returntohome]

https://youtu.be/2DGXUpoGJ2A?si=RnEpUkY7x-PH9Mu9

[srislash]

That is looking great, nice spot to run too

[Returntohome]

https://youtu.be/_1iupYqD9O4?si=Tm17O6gVNKfWhFd_
We walked round the lake to film with the sun behind us, then the swans thought we were there to feed them.

[Returntohome]

Record breaking F1h2o
With my best 2 3s batteries on board I had the lake to myself as it was very cold. I could tell she was motoring so thought I might have a record. Yes 40mph dead on , that was my target.
So now to fit my new 6s battery with its as150 plugs, 75c so would it be able to provide enough current, YES , couldn't believe it when I removed the battery bay cover the gps read 42.2 mph. So twice in one day I broke the record, just shows getting everything tight did the trick.
I now have my new Bluetooth watt meter to fit so I can get some readings, with those I may be able to go up a size on the prop, but if not I will be happy with running at 42mph.178442

[srislash]

Record breaking F1h2o
With my best 2 3s batteries on board I had the lake to myself as it was very cold. I could tell she was motoring so thought I might have a record. Yes 40mph dead on , that was my target.
So now to fit my new 6s battery with its as150 plugs, 75c so would it be able to provide enough current, YES , couldn't believe it when I removed the battery bay cover the gps read 42.2 mph. So twice in one day I broke the record, just shows getting everything tight did the trick.
I now have my new Bluetooth watt meter to fit so I can get some readings, with those I may be able to go up a size on the prop, but if not I will be happy with running at 42mph.178442
You are getting a right respectable clip going there. Congrats on the tuning success

[Returntohome]

I tried another engine on the F1 having noticed some cracks in the midsection, however read on. 178898178899The F1 being so fast soon shows up any weakness, this happened with the replacement engine. All the force is on the bearing behind the gear, it pushed the bearing out of its ally housing. I was able to get back at very low speed. So I split the gearbox, no oil, it had all leaked out. I turned a new housing for the bearing from solid bar , so bearing can't move. The gears still look new so I reassembled, heating the housing and using it to melt the plastic, quench in cold water, created the perfect fit. Plenty of grease added this time as a change from oil.
It's not going back on the F1, I've gone back to the original engine but made a new stronger mid section. I used a new coupling called Kande, looks much stronger and it's bigger , so I was able to add 7mm to the mid section. I will run the F1 like this for a while, then it will also get a modified gearbox.

[Returntohome]

https://youtu.be/ivUwpRj5nTk?si=g_OPd2Yr42D2oP_O
She still flies and has great presence on the water.

[srislash]

Such a nice spot to run there. She is looking good. Still a bit of spray off the drive?