America, what have you done?

[Dr. Jet]

An article by Melanie Philips (United Kingdom)

President Obama has had, by general consent, a torrid First Fortnight. To put it another way, it has taken precisely two weeks for the illusion that brought him to power to be exposed for the nonsense that it so obviously was. The transformational candidate who was going to sweep away pork-barrel politics, lobbyists and corruption has been up to his neck in sleaze, as eviscerated here by Charles Krauthammer. Despite the fact that he came to power promising to ‘ban all earmarks’, his ‘stimulus’ bill represents billions of dollars of special-interest tax breaks, giveaways and protections -- which have nothing to do with kick-starting the economy and everything to do with favouring pet Democrat causes.

He has been appointing one tax dodger, lobbyist and wheeler-dealer after another. After appointing one official,Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, who had unaccountably forgotten to pay his taxes, he then watched his designated Health Secretary Tom Daschle fall on his sword because he too had taken a tax holiday. Daschle was furthermore a prominent actor in the world of lobbying and influence-peddling. Leon Panetta, Obama’s nominee for Director of the CIA has also, according to the Wall Street Journal, consulted for prominent companies and sat on the board of a public affairs firm that lobbies Congress. The Weekly Standard reports that Secretary of Labour nominee Hilda Solis was not only involved with a private organization lobbying her fellow legislators on a bill that she helped sponsor, but she apparently kept her involvement secret and failed to reveal a clear conflict of interest.

In foreign policy, Obama has started by trashing his own country through grossly misrepresenting its history and grovelling to America’s enemies such as Iran, which has flicked him aside with undiluted contempt. He has gratuitously upset America’s ally India by suggesting that America should muscle in and resolve the Kashmir question.

His right hand doesn’t seem to know what his left hand is doing. He reportedly asked retired Marine General Anthony Zinni to be US ambassador to Iraq, but then abruptly withdrew the appointment without explanation after it had been confirmed by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. And the precise role he is offering Dennis Ross – special envoy to Iran? Special adviser to Hillary? Special adviser to other special advisers? – remains mired in confusion.

I have argued before however that, given Obama’s radical roots in the neo-Marxist, nihilist politics of Saul Alinsky, it is the undermining of America’s fundamental values that is likely to be this President’s most strategically important goal. I have also suggested that, since this agenda is promoted through stealth politics which gull the credulous middle-classes while destroying the ground upon which they are standing, his second-tier appointments should be closely scrutinised.

And here’s a humdinger. Obama has picked a man called David Ogden to be deputy Attorney-General. Ogden has made his legal career from representing *!***!***!***!**ographers, trying to defeat child protection legislation and undermining family values. As FoxNews reported this week, he once represented a group of library directors arguing against the Children's Internet Protection Act, which ordered libraries and schools receiving funding for the Internet to restrict access to obscene sites. And on behalf of several media groups, he successfully argued against a child *!***!***!***!**ography law that required publishers to verify and document the age of their models, which would have ensured these models were at least 18.

The Family Research Council has more examples of his contribution to upholding American and western values. In one such case, he expressed the view that abortion was less damaging to a woman than having children:

In sum, it is grossly misleading to tell a woman that abortion imposes possible detrimental psychological effects when the risks are negligible in most cases, when the evidence shows that she is more likely to experience feelings of relief and happiness, and when child-birth and child-rearing or adoption may pose concomitant (if not greater) risks or adverse psychological effects ...

In another, co-authored brief, he argued that it was an unconstitutional burden on 14-year old girls seeking an abortion for their parents to be notified -- because there was no difference between adults and mid-teens in their ability to grasp all the implications of such a decision:

There is no question that the right to secure an abortion is fundamental. By any objective standard, therefore, the decision to abort is one that a reasonable person, including a reasonable adolescent, could make. Empirical studies have found few differences between minors aged 14-18 and adults in their understanding of information and their ability to think of options and consequences when asked to consider treatment-related decisions. These unvarying and highly significant findings indicate that with respect to the capacity to understand and reason logically, there is no qualitative or quantitative difference between minors in mid-adolescence, i.e., about 14-15 years of age, and adults.

And how did the 44th President react to the growing public dismay over the mess he was making? He threw his toys out of the pram -- or perhaps that should read, he got into the pram. For he fled the scene of the disaster and sought the company of seven year-olds instead. As the Telegraph reported:

‘We were just tired of being in the White House,’ he told a group of excited seven-year-olds before discussing Batman and reading them a book.

Tired of being President – after two weeks!

Tax cheats, pork-barrel politics, ancillary child abuse, incompetence, chaos, treachery and infantilism. America – what have you done?!

[Dr. Jet]

Intersting.... The site will not allow the first part of the word p-o-r-n-o-g-r-a-p-h-y. Insert that word where you see a bunch of **/***/***/*** in the above.

[Rex R]

that is because various 'spam-bots' look for instances of the word, specifically the 1st 4 letters, thus the use of pron.
I voted fer the other guy.

[AndyKunz]

Bill,

It would be more clear if you would edit and insert bracket I bracket to italicize the quotes.

Like I said before, the nation is about to get a taste of Illinois politics at the federal level.

Andy

[Dr. Jet]

Bill,

It would be more clear if you would edit and insert bracket I bracket to italicize the quotes.

Like I said before, the nation is about to get a taste of Illinois politics at the federal level.

Andy

Andy,

The entire text above is an article from Melanie Phillips. I added nothing.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Buckle Up, Its going to be an interesting ride!!!

[Punisher 67]

Interesting topic and article.........................:popcorn2:

[Bill-SOCAL]

No news here. Melanie Phillips is the British Ann Coulter so this article is just more of the same from her.

[Dr. Jet]

No news here. Melanie Phillips is the British Ann Coulter so this article is just more of the same from her.

So let me see if I have this right.... Melanie has a "Right" point of view, so her opinions are of no value whatsoever, and are meaningless.

I'm not sensing any "tolerance of diversity" from the Left. Where is the tolerance of opposing opinions? Where is the embracing of political diversity?

You may have a mind, but disordered is disordered. How's that Kool-Aide tasting?

[Bill-SOCAL]

No, she is known for having extreme views that are considered as being at the far polar end of the spectrum. Tolerance of diversity does not mean that the lunatic fringe is now to be considered as mainstream.

[ghostofpf1]

No, she is known for having extreme views that are considered as being at the far polar end of the spectrum. Tolerance of diversity does not mean that the lunatic fringe is now to be considered as mainstream.
I don't know why you bother responding Bill...
Next they'll start believing their savior and favorite talking head rushed limpballs would make a good president :lol:

Steve :tiphat:

[Steven Vaccaro]

I don't know why you bother responding Bill...
Next they'll start believing their savior and favorite talking head rushed limpballs would make a good president :lol:

Steve :tiphat:

He wouldn't? :smile:

[Dr. Jet]

I don't know why you bother responding Bill...
Next they'll start believing their savior and favorite talking head rushed limpballs would make a good president :lol:

Steve :tiphat:

He would probably do better than the old Glue Horse I voted for.......

[Darin Jordan]

I have a lot of faith that Michael Steele (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_S._Steele ) will bring the common sense back to the Right and get this ship steering straight again... His first act, to dump the entire GOP party head-men and start over there, was a good start.

If this pork-spending, errrr.... I mean "pork-u-lous" plan was really going to be as great as Obama says it will be, then he wouldn't be working SOOOO freaking hard to get the GOP, any of them, to go along with it. He could CRUSH the GOP by simply passing the bill with no GOP support, then having it work like a charm...

Problem with that plan is that they KNOW it won't work, so they want to spread the blame on spreading the wealth...

You on the left... enjoy your day... I know you haven't had one since around 1978, so you are do... I'm sure that Carter and Obama will have lots to reminise about after 2012...

[Flying Scotsman]

Who cares about the left or the right political position. Both parties messed up. Now just drop the gloves and go back in each of your corners with the D hat on and come out, shake hands and with other world leaders to FIX THE PROBLEMS and screw the politics or else we are in deep Sh.t

Douggie

[Darin Jordan]

Who cares about the left or the right political position.

"Politics" are just another way to describe differences in "philosophies", and you can't fix anything if those are based on bad ideas... There are some HORRENDOUS ideas being put forth... so I'm sorry if some of us just can't "push that aside"... If you want things fixed, then you have to start with ideas that stand a shot at actually fixing them...

[calcagno45]

We'll never get rid of the segregation and difference between the Left and Right. However, soon we'll all see what kind of mistake 66 million America's voted on...

I mean Miss Pelosi was saying we are losing 50 million jobs a week... Hell at that rate, everyone will be jobless in 6 weeks. Pure brilliance, she should be a blonde instead of Speaker of the House....

As far as the "pork-u-lous" bill goes, as "favorite rushed limpballs" brilliantly suggested, why not cut the corporate tax rate in half. Not only would this stimulate corporations, but it would pump money into the people. Less taxes, more profit. More profits, more income to me.

[egneg]

The federal government has become a big (crooked) business ... and the sad thing is you can't quit and find a new employer without leaving the country.

[Dr. Jet]

I mean Miss Pelosi was saying we are losing 50 million jobs a week... Hell at that rate, everyone will be jobless in 6 weeks. Pure brilliance, she should be a blonde instead of Speaker of the House....

Actually, the very brilliant Ms. Pelosi said we are losing 500 Million jobs per month. At that rate, this country will have 100% unemployment in less than a month. And she (and her cronies) wrote the "Pork-U-lus" bill. Hmmm.... I wonder if there are any mistakes in there???

[Dr. Jet]

The federal government has become a big (crooked) business ... and the sad thing is you can't quit and find a new employer without leaving the country.

You could alway do a hostile takeover if you don't like the company that employs you. I think it was Thomas Jefferson that said there should be a revolt ever 20 years or so. I think we are overdue.

To arms! To arms! It's time to throw that tea into the harbor!!

[Flying Scotsman]

You could alway do a hostile takeover if you don't like the company that employs you. I think it was Thomas Jefferson that said there should be a revolt ever 20 years or so. I think we are overdue.

To arms! To arms! It's time to throw that tea into the harbor!!

Dr. Jet
It would be another coast and throw the coffee into the harbour :smile:

Douggie

[ghostofpf1]

He wouldn't? :smile:

:lol:
Steve

[calcagno45]

Dr. Jet
It would be another coast and throw the coffee into the harbour :smile:

Douggie


LOL Especially all that darn Starbucks coffee!

I'm up for it. Got a AR-15, plenty shotguns, and plenty scoped rifles in the house! Should I start the revolt in the Port of New Orleans? :buttrock:

[RCprince]

You could alway do a hostile takeover if you don't like the company that employs you. I think it was Thomas Jefferson that said there should be a revolt ever 20 years or so. I think we are overdue.

To arms! To arms! It's time to throw that tea into the harbor!!

http://cache.eb.com/new-multimedia/bigimages/unstam124.jpg

British troops fire into a crowd of people in colonial Boston. Crispus Attucks, a black sailor and former slave, was shot first and died along with four others in what became known as the Boston Massacre. The famous event of 1770 is depicted in a colored engraving by Howard Pyle.

[RCprince]

http://cache.eb.com/new-multimedia/bigimages/amrevo023.jpg

Washington Crossing the Delaware is an oil on canvas by Emanuel Leutze from 1851. It is in the Metropolitan Museum of Art, in New York City.

"The time has come, for us to removed those who have betrayed our trust: Congress, The Senate, The House, The Judicial and The Executive offices, For they have conspired together with one mind, with malice intent, to rob the people of their livelihood. Through the creation of superfluous laws and governmental codes, Ponzi Scheme banking practices without any accountability." RcPrince

"All of the perplexities, confusion, and distress in America arises, not from the defects of the Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation." -- John Adams, Founding Father

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance." - President James Madison

"You are a den of vipers and thieves and I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out. If Congress has the right to issue paper money, it was given them to be used by themselves, and not to be delegated to individuals or corporations.." -- Andrew Jackson's address to Congress 1829

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies." - Thomas Jefferson.

"I have two great enemies, the southern army in front of me and the financial institutions, in the rear. Of the two, the one in the rear is the greatest enemy..... I see in the future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of the war." - Abraham Lincoln

"I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our constitution - taking from the federal government their power of borrowing." Thomas Jefferson, 1798


"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation then by deflation, the banks and the corporations will grow up around them, will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." -Thomas Jefferson


"When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes... Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain." -- Napoleon Bonaparte, 1815


"Money plays the largest part in determining the course of history" - Karl Marx (Communist Manifesto)

"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws." - Mayer Amschel Rothschild, 1790

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of it laborers, the genius of its scientists and the hopes of its children" — President Dwight D. Eisenhower

.

[RCprince]

"I have never seen more senators express discontent with their jobs. ... I think the major cause is that, deep down in our hearts, we have been accomplices to doing something terrible and unforgivable to this wonderful country. Deep down in our hearts, we know that we have bankrupted America and that we have given our children a legacy of bankruptcy. .. We have defrauded our country to get ourselves elected." -John Danforth, Republican senator from Missouri, reported in the Arizona Republic of April 21, 1992

"Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders... The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and... manipulates the credit of the United States." -Sen. Barry Goldwater (R-AZ)

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be." -- Thomas Jefferson

[RCprince]

History repeats it's self, when we become so easily distracted by the mediocrities of apathy in this global community, We forget the pendulum swings in both directions. Today for you, tomorrow for me!

[Dr. Jet]

After reading what RC Prince has posted (a brilliant quote, by the way), I am evem more convinced that we live in a nation of ignorant, mind-numbed consumers of propaganda. How could we have elected this clown? Why did the loyal opposition to this clown run a worn-out old glue horse?

Where are the men and women that actually give a rat's a$$ about this country, and not just padding their own pockets (or worse yet, seeking nothing but power over "the masses")?

Go back and find what I wrote before the election: We're screwed.

[Punisher 67]

History repeats it's self!

If you follow your history at all most great empires have a rise and fall not lasting much past 200 years , greed and corruption at the highest levels is what brings it to its knee's and its eventual destruction , my mother once told me the USA is running a scary parallel to the roman empire

I am in no way saying we are better off , I see both our nations walking down the same path of financial destruction

Here in Canada we have our embarrassments also , East hates the West , the West hates the East , the rest of Canada hates Quebec , Quebec always wanting to separate , like what a flippen clown show.................:confused1:

[ghostofpf1]

After reading what RC Prince has posted (a brilliant quote, by the way), I am evem more convinced that we live in a nation of ignorant, mind-numbed consumers of propaganda. How could we have elected this clown? Why did the loyal opposition to this clown run a worn-out old glue horse?

Where are the men and women that actually give a rat's a$$ about this country, and not just padding their own pockets (or worse yet, seeking nothing but power over "the masses")?

Go back and find what I wrote before the election: We're screwed.


Funny...you could have quoted the same set of phrases from my posts 8 and 4 years ago :thumbup:
Steve :lol:

[Dr. Jet]

You poor demented consumer of left-wing extremist media propaganda (NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NPR, AP, Reuters, BBC, New York Times, LA Times, San Diego Union-Tribune, just to name a few Left-wing extremist, Neo-Marxist "news" organizations). I truly feel sorry for you. How can you read the words of our Founding Fathers and still maintain your socialist position? You confirm my signature tag line.

[RCprince]

If you follow your history at all most great empires have a rise and fall not lasting much past 200 years , greed and corruption at the highest levels is what brings it to its knee's and its eventual destruction , my mother once told me the USA is running a scary parallel to the roman empire

I am in no way saying we are better off , I see both our nations walking down the same path of financial destruction

Here in Canada we have our embarrassments also , East hates the West , the West hates the East , the rest of Canada hates Quebec , Quebec always wanting to separate , like what a flippen clown show.................:confused1:

"the sun never sets on the British Empire." Hmmm. everything has a living cycle, and the ones who find the most difficulty understanding this are those who choose not to read. Man lives and dies and so shall everything he creates, be governed by those rules.

[RCprince]

You poor demented consumer of left-wing extremist media propaganda (NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NPR, AP, Reuters, BBC, New York Times, LA Times, San Diego Union-Tribune, just to name a few Left-wing extremist, Neo-Marxist "news" organizations). I truly feel sorry for you. How can you read the words of our Founding Fathers and still maintain your socialist position? You confirm my signature tag line.

Don't forget Foxnews, There is no News network that feeds the people the truth, they are all in cahoots, allowing you to believe there is a middle ground, while they are encircling the wagons for their own personal lust for money and ratings, they'll sell you Jesus is in the Mohave, if they could capture sweep week( look at the code words people).


"Liberalism is a mental disorder " Actually without liberalism there is no conservatism and so forth. What did the English church think of our founding father non conforming ways. Freedom at its very essence is liberalism, But freedom without conservatism is anarchy. Maybe we should bring back, burning at the stake or hanging. likewise was it not capitalism that got us to the Great Depression via the Banking System pillaging this country, and during, while the Rich bankers bought up all the foreclosed farms. However, were it not for the Socialistic policies FDR implement, the unfortunate would have been at an impasse. Likewise Capitalism without a Symbiosis relationship with Socialism will only benefit one segment of the population, The Capitalist( those who capitalize on the misfortune or ignorance of others:ie banks).

Maybe we should take a second look at Hitler's thinking when it comes to selective birth, that way there would be no more handicaps or less desirable being born, where we would have to foot their bills. I can understands the thinking of those who call themselves capitalist, But they have a tendency of throwing the baby out with the bath water.
There is no absolutism in human behavior, that is a mental disorder my friend and unnatural. Those who think they are free are those who cease to fight any longer, and in their complacency they so willingly acquiesce to the same powers that seek to imprison them.

"Money is a new form of slavery, and distinguishable from the old simply by the fact that it is impersonal -- that there is no human relation between master and slave." - Leo Tolstoy

[Darin Jordan]

Guys... it doesn't really matter at this point... The Spedulous bill has bee passed by the Senate... it's only a matter of time before it gets passed by the House.

I said at the time that the rebate checks that Bush sent us awhile back were the dumbest things ever... NOTHING will compare to what is about to be enacted.

This will go down in history as one of the single worst things EVER to come out of Washington.

God help our Kids....

[Dr. Jet]

Don't forget foxnews, There is no News network that feeds the people the truth, they are all in cahoots, allowing you to believe there is a middle ground, while they are encircle the wagons for their own personal lust for money and ratings, they'll sell you Jesus is in the Mohave, if they could capture sweep week( look at the code words people).

I wouldn't call FoxNews Left-Wing extremist. Left-Wing is sufficient.

[Darin Jordan]

Left-Wing is sufficient.

They do lean left, but the mechanisms that measure such things rate them at about 40% Left to 40% Right on most of their coverage and news they deliver.

[Dr. Jet]

Guys... it doesn't really matter at this point... The Spedulous bill has bee passed by the Senate... it's only a matter of time before it gets passed by the House.

I said at the time that the rebate checks that Bush sent us awhile back were the dumbest things ever... NOTHING will compare to what is about to be enacted.

This will go down in history as one of the single worst things EVER to come out of Washington.

God help our Kids....

Nobody is talking about the Socialized Medicine part of this pork bill. That is one of the worst parts about this bill.


Were screwed, my kids are screwed, and my grandkids are screwed.



Below is the text of an article and commentary by Betsy McCaughey that sheds some ligh on the healthcare provisions of the pork bill:



Feb. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Republican Senators are questioning whether President Barack Obama’s stimulus bill contains the right mix of tax breaks and cash infusions to jump-start the economy.

Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the Health and Human Services Department.

Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH, pdf version).

The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”

Keeping doctors informed of the newest medical findings is important, but enforcing uniformity goes too far.

New Penalties

Hospitals and doctors that are not “meaningful users” of the new system will face penalties. “Meaningful user” isn’t defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose “more stringent measures of meaningful use over time” (511, 518, 540-541)

What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make the “tough” decisions elected politicians won’t make.

The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal, Daschle’s book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He praises Europeans for being more willing to accept “hopeless diagnoses” and “forgo experimental treatments,” and he chastises Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.

Elderly Hardest Hit

Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council (464).

The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in Daschle’s book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the elderly, such as osteoporosis.

In 2006, a U.K. health board decreed that elderly patients with macular degeneration had to wait until they went blind in one eye before they could get a costly new drug to save the other eye. It took almost three years of public protests before the board reversed its decision.

Hidden Provisions

If the Obama administration’s economic stimulus bill passes the Senate in its current form, seniors in the U.S. will face similar rationing. Defenders of the system say that individuals benefit in younger years and sacrifice later.

The stimulus bill will affect every part of health care, from medical and nursing education, to how patients are treated and how much hospitals get paid. The bill allocates more funding for this bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force combined (90-92, 174-177, 181).

Hiding health legislation in a stimulus bill is intentional. Daschle supported the Clinton administration’s health-care overhaul in 1994, and attributed its failure to debate and delay. A year ago, Daschle wrote that the next president should act quickly before critics mount an opposition. “If that means attaching a health-care plan to the federal budget, so be it,” he said. “The issue is too important to be stalled by Senate protocol.”

More Scrutiny Needed

On Friday, President Obama called it “inexcusable and irresponsible” for senators to delay passing the stimulus bill. In truth, this bill needs more scrutiny.

The health-care industry is the largest employer in the U.S. It produces almost 17 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product. Yet the bill treats health care the way European governments do: as a cost problem instead of a growth industry. Imagine limiting growth and innovation in the electronics or auto industry during this downturn. This stimulus is dangerous to your health and the economy.

(Betsy McCaughey is former lieutenant governor of New York and is an adjunct senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. The opinions expressed are her own.)

To contact the writer of this column: Betsy McCaughey at Betsymross@aol.com

[Darin Jordan]

Were screwed, my kids are screwed, and my grandkids are screwed.

Not just yours and mine, Doc... All the righties are going to be crying in their soup as soon as the impact of this hits them and they actually realize what they have done...

Remember... they are the first to curse the military for going into a country... then the first to scream when we don't... They don't really know what they want, and I don't think they have much of a clue about what they are going to now be getting.

Oh yah... by the way... DOW is currently down -386 points on the news... Perfect... I suppose that's Bush's fault too???

[egneg]

You could alway do a hostile takeover if you don't like the company that employs you. I think it was Thomas Jefferson that said there should be a revolt ever 20 years or so. I think we are overdue.

To arms! To arms! It's time to throw that tea into the harbor!!

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of the era from 1968 - 1972. It has been 40 or so years but the young folks pretty much let the government know how they felt then. Now we are a bit older and closing in on retirement (what a joke) with very little left of our investments for retirement.

It is time for the formation of the "GREY PANTHERS"!!!

We must rally together and let Washington know that we are mad as hell and we are not going to take it any longer!

[Flying Scotsman]

The Gray Panthers...I love it Chuck :beerchug:

Douggie

[RCprince]

Oh yah... by the way... DOW is currently down -386 points on the news... Perfect... I suppose that's Bush's fault too???

your a boater, you should know better, WAKE: 1. The visible track of turbulence left by something moving through water.

2. A track, course, or condition left behind something that has passed

[Darin Jordan]

your a boater, you should know better, WAKE: 1. The visible track of turbulence left by something moving through water.

2. A track, course, or condition left behind something that has passed

That's funny... Wave energy is usually gone the next time I come around for a lap...

I still love the way that people are COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that it's the crash of the mortgage industry, and the cheats there, that really caused this mess... And the hands involved in making that happen are the ones at the reigns right now...

Ignorance is bliss, obviously...

[egneg]

Sorry Douggie I corrected the spelling.

[Flying Scotsman]

There was no need, as I thought it fitted the bill.
A great movement, I think. Oh Damn there go the bowels again!

Douggie

[RCprince]

That's funny... Wave energy is usually gone the next time I come around for a lap...

I still love the way that people are COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that it's the crash of the mortgage industry, and the cheats there, that really caused this mess... And the hands involved in making that happen are the ones at the reigns right now...

Ignorance is bliss, obviously...

No one is, But you keep putting Bush and Obama in this... , Who's Right, Who's Left, Who Democrat, Who's Republican, Who's Liberal, Who's Conservative, Who's Christian, Who's Non Christian. Non of that Crap matters, I've shown you guys this pre election discussion and you keep coming back to same crap, over and over and over again....like a car stuck in the mud, you try first gear, if that doesn't work, then your try second, if not then you run through that same gauntlet again instead of get out of the car and seeking help. Our Political system is shot, there are no longer check and balances, because the check and balances lie in the people who are overwhelmed with BS everyday by an information system(The Media) that is owned and operated By the same people who own and operate YOU ( Foreign Bankers) Presidential powers are nothing in comparison to these Capitalistic Banks, the Banking System is a Global Regime. Their Method of operation is loan sharking, For every 1 dollar they have on the books, they are allowed to loan 9. Wall Street needs to be seized for Creating, Harboring and Abetting Domestic Terrorist.

But you know what, it's all Futile , because we live in houses we can't afford, we drives cars we can't afford(which loose about 20 percent it's value the first day you take ownership what a great investment) we live off of other peoples money(credit) I hope the capitalist don't see that, they might call that a socialistic statement, living off of other peoples money. We live to please others, " Neighbor, my Son went to YALE and we ate Biscuits and drank water to get him there, But the funny thing is, after all that time and money spend he still can't get a job, But hey he's a Yale grad. We need the realize we are all in this together, when one fail we all fail.

[ghostofpf1]

You confirm my signature tag line.

Aye and you confirm my suspicions regarding your dubious mentality with every post :lol:

Steve :thumbup:

[egneg]

No one is, But you keep putting Bush and Obama in this... , Who's Right, Who's Left, Who Democrat, Who's Republican, Who's Liberal, Who's Conservative, Who's Christian, Who's Non Christian. Non of that Crap matters, I've shown you guys this pre election discussion and you keep coming back to same crap, over and over and over again....like a car stuck in the mud, you try first gear, if that doesn't work, then your try second, if not then you run through that same gauntlet again instead of get out of the car and seeking help. Our Political system is shot, there are no longer check and balances, because the check and balances lie in the people who are overwhelmed with BS everyday by an information system(The Media) that is owned and operated By the same people who own and operate YOU ( Foreign Bankers) Presidential powers are nothing in comparison to these Capitalistic Banks, the Banking System is a Global Regime. Their Method of operation is loan sharking, For every 1 dollar they have on the books, they are allowed to loan 9. Wall Street needs to be seized for Creating, Harboring and Abetting Domestic Terrorist.

But you know what, it's all Futile , because we live in houses we can't afford, we drives cars we can't afford(which loose about 20 percent it's value the first day you take ownership what a great investment) we live off of other peoples money(credit) I hope the capitalist don't see that, they might call that a socialistic statement, living off of other peoples money. We live to please others, " Neighbor, my Son went to YALE and we ate Biscuits and drank water to get him there, But the funny thing is, after all that time and money spend he still can't get a job, But hey he's a Yale grad. We need the realize we are all in this together, when one fail we all fail.


You are talking about the Melliniam generation. Instant gratification is all that matters. The older generation (baby boomers) have worked very hard for the money they earned just to see it wiped out because of these politically correct a-holes. I am fed up with all the crap that is being spewed by politicians regardless of what party affiliations they fall under. They all lie and say what ever is required to get elected. I feel the federal government should be abolished as I think we would all be better off with out it.

[RCprince]

And this is the writing that was inscribed: MENE, MENE, TEKEL, and PARSIN. This is the interpretation of the matter: MENE, God has numbered the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end; TEKEL, you have been weighed on the scales and found wanting; PERES, your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians

[RCprince]

http://perotcharts.com/images/challenges/challenges04.png

[Bill-SOCAL]

See all those years of Republican fiscal policy finally took hold and resulted in a surplus while Clinton was in office. Then his disastrous policies caused a huge loss and decline that we are still trying to dig out of today.

We'll be seeing the Bush uptick pretty soon, which Obama will ride out until he leaves office and things go to he!! when the next Republican comes into office and has to cope with the damage that Obama will do squandering away the Bush surplus.

See, it's a cyclic thing.

[Dr. Jet]

Interesting graph. Let's see. Congress controls the budget. Liberals controlled Congress for the past 50 years or so with one exception: the 104th and 105th Congress of 1994 through 2000. Where does that fit in that graph? What is the trend during those years? Hmmmm..........

Bill: What's wrong? You are proving my point that fiscal conservatism is good for the country. Are you feeling OK? Are you shaking off that mental disorder?
:just-kidding:

[AndyKunz]

your a boater, you should know better, WAKE: 1. The visible track of turbulence left by something moving through water.

2. A track, course, or condition left behind something that has passed

I suggest the falling DOW is more of a BOW WAVE. If you've ever near a REAL boat that is in displacement mode, you definitely now what THAT is!

Andy

[RCprince]

My Solution, Bring all the troops home from abroad, give Guantanamo back to Cuba, Lock down our boarders, kick all the non documented out and the documented and illegal criminals out( we have enough of our own citizen criminals), all the non working illegals out, fortify or Nukes and say F the world take care of your own sh**! Remove all politicians, ALL leave non standing... and start anew.

[Dr. Jet]

With a newer topic.

Seems the (Very Left-Wing) New York Times predicted the Fannie Mae fallout back in 1999. Seems like the Clinton Administration was pushing them to make subprime loans available to those who couldn't afford them.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A96F9582 60

"One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary."
—Ayn Rand, 1975

These words were written more than 30 years ago, but they apply exactly to today’s financial crisis. Today’s problems are the result of a government-controlled financial and housing system that rewarded irrational behavior and punished responsible behavior. Yet they are being blamed on “the free market”—with more controls offered as the solution.

[egneg]

When I was in college back in the late 70's my economics professor could not stress enough that there is "no free lunch". Everything comes at a cost ... the only variables are WHO pays and WHEN.

[Dr. Jet]

... the only variables are WHO pays and WHEN.

Well, it looks like WHO is going to be you and I; and WHEN is going to be now.

[egneg]

Dr. Jet it has always been you and I ... the silent majority. The politicians are immune, the corporations have lobbyists, the rich have tax shelters, and the welfare folks just sit back and collect. We the hard working middle class pay for all the malarkey that these folks initiate.

[Dr. Jet]

Dr. Jet it has always been you and I ... the silent majority. The politicians are immune, the corporations have lobbyists, the rich have tax shelters, and the welfare folks just sit back and collect. We the hard working middle class pay for all the malarkey that these folks initiate.

I'm tired of being silent! Let's dress up as Indians and start throwing that tea overboard.

[sjslhill]

When I went to Wales, all they talked about was racism in America, all the time the Scotts, Welsh and Britts were all talking trash behind each others back. It was funny to listen to.

Mexico is re-taking over America, that's the real news.

[RCprince]

When I went to Wales, all they talked about was racism in America, all the time the Scotts, Welsh and Britts were all talking trash behind each others back. It was funny to listen to.

Mexico is taking over America, that's the real news.

Mexicans taking over America? actually the Mexicans once had claim to America as Indians and then before them Eskimos then before them as Asians (actually Mongolian and Russian Asians, because India is also in Asia) before them all via the Bering Straits. Seems like it's coming full circle to me.

[sjslhill]

your exactly correct.....I corrected it above to state re-taking over America :iagree:


Mexicans taking over America? actually the Mexicans once had claim to America as Indians and then before them Eskimos then before them as Asians (actually Mongolian and Russian Asians, because India is also in Asia) before them all via the Bering Straits. Seems like it's coming full circle to me.

[AndyKunz]

Well, it looks like WHO is going to be you and I; and WHEN is going to be now.

I think it's more like "us, and our children and grandchildren" (and I would not be irresponsible to add "unto the 3rd and 4th generation").

Andy

[sjslhill]

Only God can get us out of this mess we created.......man cannot.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Only God can get us out of this mess we created.......man cannot.

Sorry, I am always curious about this. Why would God care enough to get us out of a mess if He did not care enough to stop us from getting into the mess in the first place??

Sort of like why does God save victims of an automobile or airliner crash rather than simply stopping the crash in the first place??

If the point was to allow some to perish, why put all those innocent people through such an ordeal?

Almost seems like God enjoys watching us have problems.

[sjslhill]

1. God did not get us into this mess, we did. It's all in the bible, try reading it.
2. Do not try to understand God's plan, just accept it
3. You cannot improve without facing some problems

Started on what? You have no faith in God?

[Doby]

God creats man,,,,man creats mess,,,,,,,,man attempts to fix mess,,,,,,,God shakes head thinking man was probably not the best idea in the first place........God goes on an extended vacation to ponder the next move.

[Bill-SOCAL]

You did not answer my question.

I asked why he let it happen. If only He can help us now why did He let it happen in the first place?

[sjslhill]

The next move was made 2009 years ago, many men chose to ignore that plan. God is not on vacation, when was the last time you spent 10 mins. trying to talk to God?




God creats man,,,,man creats mess,,,,,,,,man attempts to fix mess,,,,,,,God shakes head thinking man was probably not the best idea in the first place........God goes on an extended vacation to ponder the next move.

[sjslhill]

I don't know Bill....my suggestion is try to be ready at all times for the end. :thumbup:


You did not answer my question.

I asked why he let it happen. If only He can help us now why did He let it happen in the first place?

[sjslhill]

I'll pray for you Bill, I mean that! Glad we had this opportunity of discussion.

[sjslhill]

Recall Notice
The Maker of all human beings is recalling all units manufactured, regardless of make or year, due to a serious defect in the primary and central component of the heart. This is due to a malfunction in the original prototype units, code named Adam and Eve, resulting in the reproduction of the same defect in all subsequent units. This defect has been technically termed "Subsequential Internal Non-Morality," or more commonly known as S.I.N. , as it is primarily expressed.

Some other symptoms include:

1. Loss of direction
2. Foul vocal emissions
3. Amnesia of origin
4. Lack of peace and joy
5. Selfish or violent behavior
6. Depression or confusion in the mental component
7. Fearfulness
8. Idolatry
9. Rebellion

The Manufacturer, who is neither liable nor at fault for this defect, is providing factory-authorized repair and service free of charge to correct this SIN defect. The Repair Technician, Jesus, has most generously offered to bear the entire burden of the staggering cost of these repairs. There is no additional fee required.

The number to call for repair in all areas is: P-R-A-Y-E-R. Once connected, please upload your burden of SIN through the REPENTANCE procedure. Next, download ATONEMENT from the Repair Technician, Jesus, into the heart component. No matter how big or small the SIN defect is, Jesus will replace it with:

1. Love
2. Joy
3. Peace
4. Patience
5. Kindness
6. Goodness
7. Faithfulness
8. Gentleness
9. Self control

Please see the operating manual, the B.I.B.L.E (Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth) for further details on the use of these fixes.

WARNING: Continuing to operate the human being unit without correction voids any manufacturer warranties, exposing the unit to dangers and problems too numerous to list and will result in the human unit being permanently impounded.

DANGER: The human being units not responding to this recall action will have to be scrapped in the furnace. The SIN defect will not be permitted to enter Heaven so as to prevent contamination of that facility.


Thank you for your attention!
GOD

Please assist where possible by notifying others of this important recall notice, and you may contact the Father any time by "knee-mail.'

[AndyKunz]

Excellent posting, Steve. Thanks!

Now to Bill's questions:


Sorry, I am always curious about this. Why would God care enough to get us out of a mess if He did not care enough to stop us from getting into the mess in the first place??

For the same reason that we as parents allow our kids to learn bad things from experience. Sometimes people are hard-headed and only learn things the hard way. For instance, I got an e-mail from my sister today. They have been telling their young adult son not to drive so fast. Guess what, he got a ticket that could have cost him his license. It cost him $650 to get a lawyer and plead guilty to a lesser charge. Now he's driving slower.


Sort of like why does God save victims of an automobile or airliner crash rather than simply stopping the crash in the first place??

Every human has an appointment with death (Job 7:1, Hebrews 9:27, and many others). It's just that those folks have a different appointment than others. Why do bad things happen? The whole book of Job is written to explain that, but it boils down to a) it is God's will, b) God gets more glory, and c) it is all the result of sin.


If the point was to allow some to perish, why put all those innocent people through such an ordeal?

Because it gives God glory. Some will come thru the experience thankful for Divine Providence (where Rhode Island got the name for its capital), while others will at the Great White Throne Judgment give God the glory then.


Almost seems like God enjoys watching us have problems.

No more than you enjoy watching your children dowse themselves with gasoline and play with matches. Actually, far, far less because of His great love.

The problems we face are not God's doing - they are the natural results of disobedience. Sometimes our disobedience affects the innocents.

As for natural disasters, the entire universe is under a curse because of Adam's disobedience. The Bible tells us that all creation "groans" until the time when it is made anew (at least 1007 years in the future from when I'm typing this).

Andy

[sjslhill]

Thanks Andy! good stuff!

[sjslhill]

Now I have a question

"at least 1007 years in the future from when I'm typing this"

Please explain this one to me.

[ghostofpf1]

If gawd exists ( He doesn't AFAIC) he has a sick sense of humor :confused:
Steve :cool2:

[AndyKunz]

Now I have a question

"at least 1007 years in the future from when I'm typing this"

Please explain this one to me.

7 years of Great Tribulation + 1000 years of Millenial Reign of Christ.

Then there is a new heaven and new earth (Rev 21:1).

Andy

[sjslhill]

Ah yes, I agree....we are very near it now. Do you believe in the rapture?

[Doby]

Doesn't the calander run out in 2012???

Clock's ticking!

[Punisher 67]

Yes John this is about the 15th end of the world prediction , there will be plenty more after 2012 , can you say fanatics....................:rofl:

[Doby]

15 so far,,,wow,,,were any of them correct:rofl::rofl:

Food for thought,,,,,,

Suppose, ,,just suppose that someone many years ago decided to write a really cool book,,base it loosley on some facts from that time and some of the characters on some actual people,,,added some sci fi special effects content (whatever that could be at that time, "water parting" etc), added some carnal knowledge content,,,,,,some religion etc.... and decided on a neat name, oh lets say "The Bible" and it became a best seller over the ages.

Now suppose,,,(again just suppose) that it was written strictly for people's entertainment at the time and was blown WAY out of proportion in its interpretation by many......... and the truth was now suddenly found out about its true origins and intent....what would happen???

[Bill-SOCAL]

So God is looking a little down and Gabriel asks what's the matter.

God says he feels a like he needs a break.

So Gabriel suggests taking a vacation. Maybe a trip to Earth...

To which God responds.


"Are you kidding me??!! . Nothing but a bunch of busy bodies down there. Went there 2,000 years ago and had a fling with a cute little Jewish girl, and they are STILL talking about it"!!

[RCprince]

F.E.A.R ... False Events Appearing Real.

and the dish ran away with the spoon.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Ah yes, I agree....we are very near it now. Do you believe in the rapture?

I recall back in 1987 when the Moronic, oops, I mean the "Harmonic" Convergence, was supposed to happen in Sedona among other places. Nothing happened besides building another store to sell crystal pyramids to tourists. All the "believers" remained after the prescribed departure time. Somebody has to sell the trinkets after all.

Go figure. Maybe next time.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Only God can get us out of this mess we created.......man cannot.


I believe God can not literally come down and save us.

To many people have no care for what they do while they are alive because they have no fear of what happens after death. I was not brought up to have a strong belief in God, because my parents didn't take us to Church. But now as I see my children growing up and going to Church on a regular basis, I see that its working for them and now me.

[sjslhill]

Go ahead and scoff at it, maybe you can be left behind for tribulation, good luck with that one. It may not happen for 1,000 more years but the bible tells us to be ready at all time, in both books.

Yes I know, to most of you the bible is a collection of fiction. Yup, that's it, fiction. Don't bet on that.

Your going to one of two places, the lake of fire or to eternal life with God in heaven...I hope and pray the 2nd for all of us

[Bill-SOCAL]

To many people have no care for what they do while they are alive because they have no fear of what happens after death.

And this is precisely the problem for me. So the main tool that the All Loving God has to control your actions is Fear? This makes less than zero sense to me. But it does hit directly to the basis of most Christian faith, the idea that people are incapable of knowing what is right and wrong without fear of retribution from a higher being. This is the central theme to the story of Adam and Eve and the concept of Original Sin.

The main issue is that the concept that morality cannot exist independent of belief in a monotheistic Christian God figure. This is of course wrong. Look at how often we see extremely religious people who have no moral compass at all. The BTK killer was a minister for example.

Then take for instance Ghandi. Few would argue that he was not a moral man, and yet he developed his moral code outside of a religion that relies on fear to do so.

Then consider that there are slightly more than 6 billion people on the planet and about 2 billion are Christian. Most of those other people have beliefs that are not centered on fear of the afterlife as a means of controlling behavior in the here and now.

I understand the need and place for religion. It can give comfort, a sense of belonging, and a way of coping with the unknown. Where I have issue is when people try to use their religious beliefs to influence others who do not hold the same beliefs, as is so common with the Christian religion here in the US. There was a very good reason that the Founding Fathers developed a concept of separation of Church and State. They understood only too well the dangers of allowing the two to intermingle.

In the end for me it is immaterial if there is an afterlife and it does not control what I do. What matters are the choices you make in your daily life and doing the right thing is not by necessity contingent upon fearing what will happen when your Father gets home as it were.

[Doby]

Oh,,I'll probably regret saying this but,,,,wouldn't the world be a much more peaceful place if religion didn't exist......it is after all the basis for many of the wars fought over the ages.

Something tells me that the almighty probably wasn't intending that to happen...no matter what the faith.

[Punisher 67]

............No John you shouldn't

...................Well put BILL

There have been more deaths in the name of religion over the past 2000 years than all other things combined , wars , crusades , conversions , witch burnings , people boiled alive , tortures , etc . either you see it the religious way and believe or parish in the name of God , Allah , Buddha , whatever . Religion even controlled astronomy in its infancy , many feared documenting there findings for fear of severe reprisal or death from the church . How many north and south American native communities living in piece were wiped out in the name of the church hundreds of years ago , And I can go on and on and on .

How many faiths on TV just send $$$$$$$$$$$ and you to will be saved

I have high regards for anyone going to church supporting there faith bettering themselves morally and giving there children an early sense of religious direction , but when you start to shove it down my throat with this end if time $hit and burning in eternal hell now we have an issue . Why because I do not go to church I must obviously be a bad person warranting that fate , so my years of being a decent person , a good father/Grandfather , helping others every way that I can accounts for nothing . Is that the way it is , I do believe in a supreme being with all the beauty and complexity of this world , plants , insects , reptiles , animals , scenery how could this all of sprung from nothing , even the solar system and everything out there you have to wonder if there is some sort of intelligent design at work or greater , My extremist religious Friends tell me other than earth there is nothing else out there living . If thats the case that is an awful waste of space , In my opinion thats a pretty arrogant closed minded comment and I wonder where they got that idea from

Here is some food for thought , according to the certain religions beliefs man has existed on earth for 7000 some odd years give or take correct me if I am wrong , and when asked God has been here all eternity , now if eternity is this long 1000,000,000,000,000,000 what was God doing the last 999,999,999,999,993,000 years

Ok I'll step down off my soap box now........................:tiphat:

[sjslhill]

Shove it down your throat? Thanks for pointing that out, that's not my intention.

I am really understanding Fast Electric boating more now and what drives it's direction.

thanks to all,

God Bless You.

Steve

[Punisher 67]

Before we go any further I will take that one back I didn't mean to point it at you directly.......:sorry: , but there are those out there that do

Now what does Fast Electric Boating have to do with religion

[Steven Vaccaro]

I personally don't care what anyone else believes as long as you can be a moral human in our society. The problem with our current society is, less and less people have any morals. I'm not sure its because they don't believe in a religion, but I do know that its happened at the same time. Strange coincidence? I tend to think not......

[Bill-SOCAL]

Now what does Fast Electric Boating have to do with religion

Well, I usually pray to God that I don't fry something when I am pushing things a bit too hard!! Sometimes he listens, sometimes he must be busy elsewhere.

[Flying Scotsman]

............No John you shouldn't

...................Well put BILL

There have been more deaths in the name of religion over the past 2000 years than all other things combined , wars , crusades , conversions , witch burnings , people boiled alive , tortures , etc . either you see it the religious way and believe or parish in the name of God , Allah , Buddha , whatever . Religion even controlled astronomy in its infancy , many feared documenting there findings for fear of severe reprisal or death from the church . How many north and south American native communities living in piece were wiped out in the name of the church hundreds of years ago , And I can go on and on and on .

How many faiths on TV just send $$$$$$$$$$$ and you to will be saved

I have high regards for anyone going to church supporting there faith bettering themselves morally and giving there children an early sense of religious direction , but when you start to shove it down my throat with this end if time $hit and burning in eternal hell now we have an issue . Why because I do not go to church I must obviously be a bad person warranting that fate , so my years of being a decent person , a good father/Grandfather , helping others every way that I can accounts for nothing . Is that the way it is , I do believe in a supreme being with all the beauty and complexity of this world , plants , insects , reptiles , animals , scenery how could this all of sprung from nothing , even the solar system and everything out there you have to wonder if there is some sort of intelligent design at work or greater , My extremist religious Friends tell me other than earth there is nothing else out there living . If thats the case that is an awful waste of space , In my opinion thats a pretty arrogant closed minded comment and I wonder where they got that idea from

Here is some food for thought , according to the certain religions beliefs man has existed on earth for 7000 some odd years give or take correct me if I am wrong , and when asked God has been here all eternity , now if eternity is this long 1000,000,000,000,000,000 what was God doing the last 999,999,999,999,993,000 years

Ok I'll step down off my soap box now........................:tiphat:

No soap box needed. Pretty much on the button, Peter.

Douggie

[AndyKunz]

Now what does Fast Electric Boating have to do with religion

This is the off-topic forum, Peter.

But since you asked, let me tell you a little story.

In 2000, at the FE Nats, we had a great Saturday. At the end of the day everybody was cleaning up; the retrieve boat was loaded, the tables were getting cleaned off, and guys were heading home. I had brought along a boat that one of my friends (not present) was selling, and one of the racers wanted to see it run. I stuck a pack in, tossed it on the water, and we ran it. Unfortunately, something broke and it was stuck about 50 yards off shore.

Not wanting to pay for a $400 boat, I quickly took off my sneakers and shirt and swam out to it, picked it up, and started heading back for shore. Normally this wouldn't have been a problem, but I guess being tired (long! day), dehydrated, etc. my one leg cramped BADLY when I was about 1/2 way back.
Some of the guys on the shore saw I was having trouble, and asked if I needed help. (Try saying "help" with your mouth full of water sometime!)

Brian Vega stripped down and jumped in. When he got to me, at first I tried to help me bring me in. Then I remembered what my brother and sister (life guards) had taught me - don't help your rescuer! I relaxed, rolled onto my back, and held onto Brian's T-shirt. He pulled me to shore, but I was so cramped and now exhausted that I couldn't even stand up. Two guys picked me up and sat me on the shore where I rested for a while.

So what does that story have to do with "religion?" Well, first off, let's look at it as an allegory. I had willingly put myself in danger, and was in over my head (bother literally and figuratively) very much like the condition of every person who ever lived. I did not have the ability to save myself - I needed a savior. Fortunately for me, my savior was willing to put HIMSELF in danger in order to save me. When he reached me, it was imperative that I not try to save myself - I had to LET him do it. And I am thankful today, 8 1/2 years later, than Brian saved my life.

There are some very good parallels here. We can't save ourselves - good works won't do it, giving money won't do it, etc. We need to let the Savior do it ALL. He is willing to, able to, and wants to.

But Brian didn't jump in until I admitted I needed help (he probably would have if he had seen me go under any farther). Jesus Christ won't save you against your will.

Nobody is forcing Him on anybody, but He'll change your life. Some guys are scared of that. Are you?

Andy

[Punisher 67]

No I am not

I don't dis-believe in a higher power or an after life , I have all the faith in the world in God , I just have no faith in the church . sorry to many , crooks , liers , theives walk in and out of them doors . I know more descent peaple that don't go to church than do..............Here anyways

Very nice story Andy thank you for sharing that

[Flying Scotsman]

Andy, the BIG GUY scares most people in many religions. I, am of a belief if you wish a saviour ,he will not be found in modern religions. They propose to hate to all other religions. A Budhist thought may be interesting..Love, and I am not a Budhist

Dooggie

[egneg]

My cousin sent this to me ...

God's Busy

If you don't know GOD, don't make stupid remarks!!!!!!!
A United States Marine was attending some college courses between assignments. He had completed missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. One of the courses had a professor who was an avowed atheist and a member of the ACLU.

One day the professor shocked the class when he came in he looked to the ceiling and flatly stated, 'God, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you exactly 15 minutes.' The lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin drop.

Ten minutes went by and the professor proclaimed, 'Here I am God. I'm still waiting.' It got down to the last couple of minutes when the Marine got out of his chair, went up to the professor, and cold-cocked him, knocking him off the platform. The professor was out cold.

The Marine went back to his seat and sat there, silently. The other students were shocked, stunned, and sat there looking on in silence. The professor eventually came to, noticeably shaken, looked at the Marine and asked, 'What the heck is the matter with you? Why did you do that?' The Marine calmly replied, 'God was too busy today protecting American soldiers who are protecting your right to say stupid stuff and act like an idiot. So, He sent me.'

[Doby]

Shove it down your throat? Thanks for pointing that out, that's not my intention.

I am really understanding Fast Electric boating more now and what drives it's direction.

thanks to all,

God Bless You.

Steve




So God drives gas/nitro boats??????,,,not FE. That explains my blown controllers!

[Flying Scotsman]

In my family, many were medical missionaries. In fact, there is still a hospital in what was once Pallestine but now Israel named after my family. Their endeavours to help were fantastic but trying to change a persons religious viewpoint was not great in my opinion. That is the dillema that faces modern religions and we are the CORRECT religion
Douggie

[Dr. Jet]

....... in what was once Pallestine but now Israel......

Just a little correction here. There NEVER was a country of Palestine. It is a region, like the Mojave in California. The Mojave is not a state, or a nation, it is a geographical area. In 1947, the Palestinian occupants of Lebanon/Syria that wanted the opportunity to create a country to call their own, had that exact opportunity, at the SAME TIME that the Israelis (who had lived in the area currently known as Israel for hundreds, if not thousands of years) got the opportunity to form their own country.

As we all know, Israel was formed at that time, but the Palestinian people REFUSED the opportunity to form their own country, because their hatred for Jews was greater than their love of country.

The rest is history, so to speak.

[Flying Scotsman]

Ah Doctor well said. It was a result of the British who claimed it as a mandate. My Dad was one who was left after the second world war to look after this mess. The last name is WATT TORRANCE Mine is Douglas Alexander Watt Torrance and I am very proud of our family distinctions in the last century

Douggie

[RCprince]

I personally don't care what anyone else believes as long as you can be a moral human in our society.

You said it before I did with the exception of morality( It seems to be too closely associated with Religion) , I don't care if you worship rocks. Whatever you believe is your belief as long as your not proselytizing to me. Religion, been there done that. The key is are you contributing to the Human Family. Everyone is entitled to their form of medicine, but when your medicine medicates you to the point of Apathy our society starts to erode.

[Flying Scotsman]

Google Watt Torrrance

Douggie

[Steven Vaccaro]

Lets just blame everything on the internet. :doh:

[Bill-SOCAL]

No, I KEEP telling you guys.....

BLAME CANADA!!! (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/428397/south_park_blame_canada/)

[Doby]

Blame Canada for religion:confused2:

Its everyone's secret ambition to be Canadian:tiphat:

Come on up to the Great White North, The air's cleaner, the water fresher (remember, we flush twice so you guys can have water), and fewer people want to eliminate us from the face of the earth.:w00t:

[Bill-SOCAL]

Just out of curiosity, did you click on the link??

[Doby]

Nope, South Park is not my thing.....

[Bill-SOCAL]

Then you will not understand my reason for posting it.

[Dr. Jet]

B.O. has been tested and failed on all fronts

Barack Obama has now issued 17 Executive Orders. He ordered Gitmo closed. He ordered the military to go soft on terrorists in interrogations. He ordered that there be a white house office of urban affairs. In less than 6 weeks he has spent more taxpayer’s dollars than anyone else in history. In fact, he has spent more money than any other human being in history. He snubs Britian, our best ally, and wants to "talk" (surrender?) to the Taliban in Afghanistan. And yesterday he ordered Federally funded stem cell research. And what has come out of all these orders? Disorder. The stock markets are dropping lower every day. The Taliban is winning in Afghanistan. Iran is getting closer every day to making a nuclear bomb. Obama administration allies are given huge amounts of money by the Porkulus bill while Americans are being kicked out of their homes. North Korea is threatening the United States of America, and is on the verge of launching an inter-continental ballistic missle. Barack Obama has been tested and has failed on all fronts.

Strange stories are beginning to come out of the media about Obama. The media says that his hair is turning gray. He is rumored to be “overwhelmed” by the state of the economy, and hasn’t found time to hire for the top positions in the Treasury Department. This man is a college professor. He is clearly not Presidential material. George w. Bush created an environment in which so many people felt betrayed that most Americans were willing to vote for anyone who didn’t represent a continuation of his policies. But America didn’t vote for Karl Marx (well, yes they did, they just weren't informed as to who Barry Obama really was).

Even an effective Marxist would be better than this. Even though he ended up imposing a form of socialism on the U.S., FDR at least vigorously pursued the enemies of the nation. He fought against appeasers and isolationists who tried to keep us from helping the enemies of tyranny and eventually joining their side in the fight. At least FDR had executive experience as governor of New York. Obama has had no real experience outside of a classroom. And that inexperience is beginning to take its toll.

We're screwed.

[Steven Vaccaro]

I can think of words much harsher than "screwed"! :zip-up:

Did you look at the market today, we are up 264 points. Its a rally! 10k hear we come!! We are on the road to recovery. Bernanke says thing will be better by the end of the year. Citi has shown a profit for Jan and February! YA RIGHT! :sarcasm1:

[Dr. Jet]

I can think of words much harsher than "screwed"! :zip-up:


So can I, but were I to post it here, some moderator would severely chastize me.
:hide:

[Steven Vaccaro]

So can I, but were I to post it here, some moderator would severely chastize me.
:hide:


"chastize", na. Just a quick edit. With things the way they are going, I can understand people loosing their cool.

This is sad! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmeHiFZUWtE


This is how bias our media is, do a google search for "tent cities california"
You will find that none of the big US media sources come up in the top. We have to rely on the UK for info!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7297093.stm

[sjslhill]

Hey, I have changed my mind....I want the rich to feed the bears forever! Debt? Who cares, I'll be dead before that needs to be paid off. My kids? It's a tough world out there, they get in line as the bears do or make it rich and pay for the bear food.

Global warming? I hope it's true, it's be too cold here this winter. However, when they tax coal out of use, batteries will be used to store wind and solar power! We need some stimulas here to make and sell more battery packs!

[AndyKunz]

Strange stories are beginning to come out of the media about Obama. The media says that his hair is turning gray.

Yeah, but he's being credited with "proving" a "scientific theory" as a result (I saw that on a link off Fox I think).


He is rumored to be “overwhelmed” by the state of the economy

Maybe he should go read to 7 year olds again.

Andy

[Flying Scotsman]

Today, is my birthday and I can say anything I want!! That is what my Mum told me.

In the world today, we are all lost souls and I do not care what religion you subscribe to. We are killing, hating, and not living up to the ten commandments or any other religious philosophy

Douggie

[Dr. Jet]

Take a look here (http://michaelsavage.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=4684)

[ghostofpf1]

Take a look here (http://michaelsavage.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=4684)

Michael Savage ?? :doh::roflol:

[Darin Jordan]

I don't know why it still does, but it simply AMAZES me how the "progressives" focus so much on the person making the delivery, and simply IGNORE the substanative nature of what they are saying...

Progressives tought themselves as fighting for equal rights, tolerance, and acceptance... but they are, without a doubt, the most intollerant and unaccepting people on the planet!

I don't see how a party can keep saying they want to "bring people together", and then go hide in a room and ignore ANYTHING the other side has to say... I guess what they REALLY should be saying is they are tolerant and accepting of anyone who agrees with their point of view...

[Dr. Jet]

Michael Savage ?? :doh::roflol:

The truth is the truth, no matter who says it. What in there is not true?

[Darin Jordan]

The truth is the truth, no matter who says it. What in there is not true?


Exactly!

[ghostofpf1]

I rate MS right up there with that gibbering baboon Rush Limpballs..neither could recognize the "truth" if it shot them in the face...both patronize people who have the IQ's of aforementioned gibbering baboons..

good luck
Steve

[Dr. Jet]

I rate Nancy Pelosi right up there with those gibbering baboons Harry Reid and Barak Obama. Neither could recognize the "truth" if it shot them in the face...both patronize people who have the IQ's of aforementioned gibbering baboons..

And again I ask.... What in Michael Savage's editorial is not true?

[Steven Vaccaro]

Rush was unjustly a target of the dems. But I like his new tactic of challenging O to a debate. Imagine that debate? I wonder if they could type the answers on a teleprompter fast enough during a debate. The guys a puppet. Wonder who's really pulling the strings?

[Darin Jordan]

Hypocrits...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/03/11/carville-wanted-bush-fail/


And, just to show the "virtues" of electing people to office with NO practical or personal experience what-so-ever...


http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=220289&title=Brown-in-the-USA

[Dr. Jet]

Wonder who's really pulling the strings?

Isn't that fairly obvious? Who is the only multi-billionaire making money in these trying times?



George Soros

America-hating, Left-wing extremist, multi-billionaire.

Who by the way would have been nothing without the opportunity afforded by the United States of America.:patriot:

[Dr. Jet]

And again I ask.... What in Michael Savage's editorial is not true?

No answer? Hmmmm.... That speaks volumes doesn't it?

Attack the messenger, say nothing of the message.

[Dr. Jet]

More Truth:

http://michaelsavage.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=4711

Now go impugn the messenger.

[Steven Vaccaro]

I don't think the forefathers would have ever believed that the government would be so corrupt that the checks and balances would not be in effect at all. Until we remove campaign financing, we will always have politicians that will owe someone a favor.

[Dr. Jet]

The Founding Fathers also envisioned a Senate with members appointed by the States (the idea was to eliminate the need for campaigns and funding), but the 17th Ammendment ended that practice.

Now we have 535 "Representatives" with nothong more than re-election (and "How can we fool them today?") on their minds, and to he!! with the "Little People".