New 540 Motor Mount

[ksm2001]

Just starting a build on my DF29 and wanted to post a pic on the new motor mount Peter Zicha built for me. I'll be using a 8xl, 4s1p, Speedmaster hardware and Highmodel 200amp esc. The top plate can hold the esc so it can be removed and as a unit.:rockon2: any sugestions on the build would be appreciated. Thanks
Ken

[Jeff Wohlt]

Damn...that is sick! I am jealous of talent like that.

[Ub Hauled]

I am jealous of tools that can make that!!!
:smile:

[calcagno45]

Nice piece of hardware there!! Should look great in the boat. Did you adding rails to mount it?

Simply beautiful.....

[ksm2001]

Thanks for the coments on the mount, Peter does some of the best machining I've seen. The Rails came with the hull uninstaled so now that I have the mount I can set them in, the motor mount is 4" wide. I'm just waiting for the 4 trim tabs to get here so I can get the transom hardware on, then can get my cg to place the motor and battery tray. Will send some more pics as the build continues.
Thanks
Ken :canada:

[lomdel]

That motor mount is awesome! I assume you incorporated a pressure bearing in the front mount... What size and what pressure bearing did you use? Any chance that this can be modified for a 4,5" stringer spacing?

[ksm2001]

OSE sells the bearings "Product ID: dh-53136 5mm Thrust Bearing". Modifying the motor mount would only mean adding a 1/4"spacer on each side between the rail and mount itself.
Ken

[j.m.]

I would have put my money towards a Neu and used a more traditional mount. I'll bet that custom work cost some $$$$$.

[ksm2001]

Right now our Canadian $ sucks:thumbdown: and I had a new 8xl still in the box. I'd love to put a Neu in it but at $300 Canadian I'll have to wait a while.

[Punisher 67]

Thanks for the Kind words guys...........:tiphat:

Actually J.M. me and Ken (Ksm2001) run boats together with a few other guys , that mount would cost the average Joe $50.00 since it takes 3.0+ from start to finish to machine it . like anything else you get what you pay for , this one costed Ken a 26oz bottle of Crown Royal . I designed that with putting the motor as low into the hull as possible and trying to make it look as good as possible , some guys will hodge podge a boat together without a care in the world and other pay great attention to detail , no right or wrong it just boils down to personal preference , hopefully without stepping on Stevens toes here is the same mount (narrow top) with a 1527/1Y and a custom machined water jacket .

[Fluid]

Beautiful work Peter! I have a general question though....what is the thought process of guys who design cooling jackets? The best flow pattern is water entering at the lowest point and exiting at the highest point. This ensures the fastest and most complete replacement of heated water out of the jacket.

I see that most jackets have the inlet and outlet only 90 degrees apart, and they are usually mounted with the inlet at least 45 degrees below the top. What this does is create an airlock that prevents water form getting to the top of the motor - arguably the hottest part. The UL-1 jacket as it comes on the boat is worse with both inlet and outlet side-by-side - with this configuration the top half of the motor doesn't even get water. At least mount the outlet as high as possible, meaning the top front of the motor.

Below is how I changed my UL-1 so that the outlet is on top to prevent an airlock. It would be more efficient if the inlet was low on the side or on the bottom.

http://i40.tinypic.com/4lt81y.jpg

[ozboater]

interesting stuff... very nice looking mount... reminds me of high end mtb machining...

[Punisher 67]

Jay Turner I have to start this by saying hello , I agree with your solution and really haven't fully thought it out with 100% efficiency and cooling in mind but In 20 years of cooling motors I have never blown one due to poor cooling either , the water inside that jacket because the boat is bouncing around will work some of the air pocket out ( in theory ) and does jostle around all over the place inside the jacket but I will say your setup definitely has the edge over mine , that for sure is something to consider with future jackets

My first watercooled boat used a cobalt 40 using modified muffler tubing back in the mid 80's , been kind of using this same design since without really thinking things through

........................................:iagree:

[Punisher 67]

most if not all waterjackers are of simular design to mine with the pickups 90 degrees apart and 45degrees from the top . I am most certainly going to this spring mount a sensor inside the casing at the top , try both ways and see what differance there is , I am most certainly curious now.........:confused1:

[Jeff Wohlt]

J.M. I might do the same with saving money but there are advantages to mounting wider....torque. Even through torque is torque it can make a boat run differently. I always mounted my hydro motors way up from so the torque is put on the front sponson and not in the tub midway.

You can certainly make an easy mount to go across to rails with noting more than 1/8" alum just like the UL-1 design is. Makes the boat stronger as well.

Even though I use the old mounts I never did like putting that much stress and torque on such a small footprint in the hull.

I also can't use a mount that nice that looks better than the rest of my build :)

I agree with Jay....you should have the inlet at the lower end and the exit up top so the can fills. Sloshing around may work but constant water and pressure will make sure the can is always full.

[Flying Scotsman]

Peter,:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown: Top notch work as usual

Douggie

[Punisher 67]

Thanks Douggie......................:tiphat:

Jeff all my boats are for sport running and never pushed to the point where absolute cooling would be an issue , I agree 100% with Jay also and if compitition running is ever in the works setup would would be slightly different , I almost enjoy building the boats more than running them so I admit to being a little anal with the machining and every little detail........:o

[ReddyWatts]

The best flow pattern is water entering at the lowest point and exiting at the highest point. This ensures the fastest and most complete replacement of heated water out of the jacket.


That is a GREAT point Fluid. Is there ever going to be an end to learning the basic details of FE?

After looking at the my existing jacket designs, the water exit should be at the highest point on the motor, as the hull or motor mount clearance allows. I have some work to do.

[Flying Scotsman]

That is a GREAT point Fluid. Is there ever going to be an end to learning the basic details of FE?

After looking at the my existing jacket designs, the water exit should be at the highest point on the motor, as the hull or motor mount clearance allows. I have some work to do.

Jay (Fluid)a very good point. Reddy, I had all my water cooling lines the reverse of what Jay details and the reason I did this was an easy way to remove the water in the lnes and jacket after a run. I guess it is time for me reverse my lines.
Thanks Jay

Douggie

[ReddyWatts]

Wish I could still update this thread "Ideas on Building a reliable BL System. I would like to add this info about the mounting position of a water jacket exit line.

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=271

[ksm2001]

K so what I'm reading here is every one has there own way of placing their hoses where they think is best, it's always been said "experimenting is half the fun":thumbup:.

I guess from what I see it depends on your setup and if you can place the outlet on the highest point, but from what you said Douggie, your set up worked too. So does it really matter as long as you have good flow?

[ReddyWatts]

Why take a chance of getting air trapped in the water jacket? Place the water exit at the top and force the air out as it fills with water.

[Punisher 67]

Wish I could still update this thread "Ideas on Building a reliable BL System. I would like to add this info about the mounting position of a water jacket exit line.

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=271

Reddy I doubt a reliability issue is warrented here , hell 3/4 of the waterjacket manufacturers do theres virtually the same way and I have yet to run into anyone unhappy with the water pickup placement or having severe cooling issues because of it , If you take a garden hose at any angle and spray it on a round object you will notice that it spreads out like a water ripple so trust me the top is still getting cooled , this will certainly be something I am going to test in the spring with a heat sensor on the top inside of the motor to see what temp differance there is the way I have mine and Jays setup . no its not a 100% efficient like Jays but I will certainly live with the 90% it supplies , if you look closly at the mount also you will see the they both have 8 mount holes so Jays cooling setup could be duplicate in less than 5 minutes just by rotating the motor , in fact to make things interesting I am going to rotate the motor with the pickup in the worst possible position and the best then record the differance and go from there , I like to try things myself just to see if the said way holds any water .

This I am not disputing , yes Jays pickup placement is 100% efficient , I just want to see differance there will be between the two , 100 degree's , 50 degree's maybe 5 degree's.................??

Example of testing the common belief
One thing that didn,t make any sence to me was that I had to have a thrust bearing on the motor and the strut , if I used a square end ferrule and square end flex at the strut with only a thrust bearing there it wouldn,t work the motor had to take some of the thrust , what did I discover..........It worked just as good with just the strut taking the thrust and the flex floating in the strut , been using this setup for two years now without a single handling issue in fact all my setups are converted to this so sometimes it pays to try things yourself just to verify it


Ok I will step of my soap box now hopefully without my shoe in my mouth..........................:tiphat:

[ReddyWatts]

Thanks for your opinion Peter. I just really liked what Jay suggested, it makes sense and seems more efficient in cooling the motor. Never thought about the possibilty of getting air trapped in the water jacket. Air rises in water, so placing the outlet at the top will allow any air in the jacket to escape easily.

[Punisher 67]

Reddy I hope I didn't come of like a jackass but I am curious at what point the pickup start being a cooling issue

[ReddyWatts]

No, you did not, that is what is cool about this forum. We come here to share, discus and learn, so keep it coming. It would be boring if we all agreed about everything. ha

I really like your motor mount.

[Punisher 67]

Thought you guys might enjoy a little video on what goes into making one of these mounts.............:popcorn2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRscUpsFGgc

[Flying Scotsman]

Peter, did you ever do an evaluation on the water input/exit temperature discussion.

Cheers,

Douggie

[Punisher 67]

Not yet Douggie but I think I will this weekend . I have built a test stand fully watercooled with a ubec powered pump and reservoir to test my lipo's with various loads . The motor can be set with the cooling tubes upright , at 45* and at 90* . I will post a video of all 3 runs with the camera glued to my laptop in live mode . I will start each run with the ambient temp at the same level .

[bigpapa]

incrediable is all i can say !!!!!!!!

[Punisher 67]

I have to get one more temp sensor before I do this ( this weekend ) I already have one inline for the fluid temp but need to test case temp at the end to see how much heat is still in the system to how much was drawn out by the fluid . only one sensor would be useless

[egneg]

I think the flow rate should be considered as well. A slow flow rate will not force the air out as it will trickle out the exit as soon as it gets to it. On the other hand a high flow rate probably will force the air out as it will fill the space and then exit the jacket.

[CornelP]

Could I suggest just one thing to test? Try to also do a run shaking and moving the rig. The theory about water trapped is entirely correct, but at LOW flow rates and LAMINAR flow. Once you add a bit of a swirl, the rules are different. You already induce a lot of it by entering perpendicular, not tangent and with the position of the piping BEFORE the inlet in the jacket. If you add this to the normal vibrations of the boat, I think the quantity of air trapped is minimal. Plus, thinking about it, the normal clearance between such a jacket and the motor is probably around 1mm, which will limit the air pockets anyway.
I do not have the time do do any maths or testing now, but maybe the best test would be to use a transparent cooling jacket mock up and see for the trapped air...

[CornelP]

BTW, in you fantastic setup, the air will probably go in the outlet loop. Try to use a longer piece of tubing and bring it down as in rel life use before going to the tank.
Do not be offended but what I am saying, I am a newbie with boats, but I know a thing or two about fluid flow... ;)

[Punisher 67]

Thanks for the input Cornel

anyways I did the test , the water flow was probably equivalent to a boat moving 30 mph or more so the pressure was good . The amp draw was a little over 35.0 amp on the test bench . when my Medusa 3680/1600 comes in I would like to double the amps and try again . I expected to have more of a difference but to be honest the results were almost identical . 1st test the tubes were upright , the second test the tubes were at a 90* . here are the eagle tree 2D charts]

I also want to mention I took a infrared reading on both tests of motor case after 60 seconds and got just about the same reading , I do believe without good water pressure the results would be different

In no way am I bucking Jays origional advice on pickup placement and still agree 100% the best place for them is to the top

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hi Peter,

Man, you have got some mad skills. No doubt I'll be contacting you when I need some mounts, absolutely beautiful work.:bowdown:

Paul.

[mikesf]

Great piece of work Peter!!!

[Punisher 67]

Thanks for the nice comments guys

Thanks for the kudos Paul , It would be my honour to one day have a mount in your boat