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properchopper
12-21-2008, 08:58 PM
[Jan promised that as soon as I start this thread, He'll upload the video] be patient. So here's the details. Note that I in no way am trying to duplicate Brian's SAW speed runs; I just want a boat to heat race with - LSH at WW V. O.K. First run with factory strut settings & AQ 40X57 3 blade; Elite 2S 25C 4800's in series.
Couldn't get up on plane. Brought 'er in & Jan adjusted the strut. Launched & she ripped. Not really fast; but steady in the straights & corners. Recharged & put a Bar cut X442 on & more speed. Batteries were kinda heavy in the nose & I just ordered some new Elite 2S 5000 35C packs; lighter & smaller to get the CG back some. Next week will start off with a X or M 445 at Brian's advice. Temps were nearly ambient so more agressive stuff will be tried. Vid should be forthcoming.

Spot Me 2
12-21-2008, 10:22 PM
Where are the vids?????????

Ub Hauled
12-22-2008, 12:40 AM
Here we go, just uploaded,
Tony's UL-1 in action...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_qthJJms8I

Heath M
12-22-2008, 05:26 AM
Looking good Tony :)

Heath

Flying Scotsman
12-22-2008, 12:31 PM
Cool Tony. Pretty impressive for a factory setup. How do you think it will handle mild chop and race water?

Douggie

Ub Hauled
12-22-2008, 12:44 PM
Cool Tony. Pretty impressive for a factory setup. How do you think it will handle mild chop and race water?

Douggie

I know this question is not directed at me but I was there shooting the vid so I'd like to express my point of view... I think she'll handle mild chop ok, specially if one uses a heavier set of cells like Tony did. Race water... I think it'll depend on the pond, if it is a smaller pond with concrete shore lines she may suffer, if it is a larger body of water she
will suffer less (could I have been more generic?). But seriously, hard to tell at this point
if she'll prevail in race water.

properchopper
12-22-2008, 01:50 PM
Douggie, I think she'll do just fine. When I ran Brian's UL-1 at the SAW's, the wind was up & there was some small chop & she trucked right along. As far as racewater is concerned, we'll see. Next weekend I'll throw her in while the gassers are tearin' it up to check that out. I think in an LSH race, because she's larger than the Vipers & similar boats she'll have a better survival rate, although the smaller boats will have an edge on speed.

Ub Hauled
12-29-2008, 05:40 AM
Tony, videos taken SUnday were ALL outta focus. Sorry man, I think there was something on the lens.
I manage to get the damage on focus, check it out.

properchopper
12-29-2008, 09:22 AM
Tony, videos taken SUnday were ALL outta focus. Sorry man, I think there was something on the lens.
I manage to get the damage on focus, check it out.

For those that didn't read the post on the RTR thread, here's what happened : tried the new Elite 2S 35C 5000 cells with an M445 and it was a totally different boat than last week. FAST, really on the edge ! " I need an airdam fast ", in fact.
Then she blew over at full speed & ripped the turn fin right out of the sponson. Bummer, but with some creative engineering it can be repaired. As I see it, this is an issue that can happen to anyone; the area where the fin is located is just as thin as the rest of the hull and the fin bracket reinforcing plate inside the hull has a very small footprint. With the lateral leverage imparted on the fin at high cornering speeds or an unfortunate blower like mine, this is likely to be an issue. I hope not for the rest of you !
My plan to fix this on mine is to fill the hole with epoxy or resin/microballons. Then attach the sheet aluminum reinforcing plate [see picture] outside the hull, probably with 3M 5200 slow cure {it's really strong and adhears better than anything I know of}. Then mount & either tack-weld or JB the fin bracket on the plate. The bracket also will still screw into the inside-the hull-plate which'll be epoxied in to fill the hole.We'll see.
I'm sorry if I'm raining on anyone's parade here, but until {and if} future production runs somehow reinforce this during manufacture, I'd advise anyone who'se going to push this boat hard make an outside-the-hull reinforcing plate like mine. OK, lay the heat on, I'm ready !

JimClark
12-29-2008, 01:34 PM
why not modify the turn fin so it kicks up when striking something?

Jim

properchopper
12-29-2008, 01:55 PM
Jim, I'll likely do that. 'Thing is, I don't beleive I struck anything. The fin has no scars at all, & was bent out sideways hanging off the sponson. The boat just did a fairly slow blowover & that was it. :confused2:

LuckyDuc
12-29-2008, 05:24 PM
For those that didn't read the post on the RTR thread, here's what happened : tried the new Elite 2S 35C 5000 cells with an M445 and it was a totally different boat than last week. FAST, really on the edge ! " I need an airdam fast ", in fact.
Then she blew over at full speed & ripped the turn fin right out of the sponson. Bummer, but with some creative engineering it can be repaired. As I see it, this is an issue that can happen to anyone; the area where the fin is located is just as thin as the rest of the hull and the fin bracket reinforcing plate inside the hull has a very small footprint. With the lateral leverage imparted on the fin at high cornering speeds or an unfortunate blower like mine, this is likely to be an issue. I hope not for the rest of you !
My plan to fix this on mine is to fill the hole with epoxy or resin/microballons. Then attach the sheet aluminum reinforcing plate [see picture] outside the hull, probably with 3M 5200 slow cure {it's really strong and adhears better than anything I know of}. Then mount & either tack-weld or JB the fin bracket on the plate. The bracket also will still screw into the inside-the hull-plate which'll be epoxied in to fill the hole.We'll see.
I'm sorry if I'm raining on anyone's parade here, but until {and if} future production runs somehow reinforce this during manufacture, I'd advise anyone who'se going to push this boat hard make an outside-the-hull reinforcing plate like mine. OK, lay the heat on, I'm ready !
Couple of Q’s…. How fast were you "pushing" the hull when the boat flipped? Were you in a turn or straight away when it occurred. Is it possible it let go first, causing the flip?

It might be advantageous to make this an intentional break point by using nylon bolts instead of steel?

properchopper
12-29-2008, 06:22 PM
Couple of Q’s…. How fast were you "pushing" the hull when the boat flipped? Were you in a turn or straight away when it occurred. Is it possible it let go first, causing the flip?

It might be advantageous to make this an intentional break point by using nylon bolts instead of steel?

My guess is it was very close if not at 50 mph. Hard to say. It was really ripping, I'll say that. Happened on the straight. A breakaway fin may be the right way to go, given how thin the hull is at the mounting point. I'm at a loss to explain what caused it, other than the rather violent touchdown. The fin has no nicks whatsoever ; if I hit something at that speed there should be some "forensics" :spy:

Grimracer
12-30-2008, 09:15 AM
Im looking into this.. bare with me.......

Grim

properchopper
12-30-2008, 09:24 AM
Im looking into this.. bare with me.......

Grim

Cool. Thanks for the response. I'm still in LOVE withis boat. Absolutely unbeatable for the money and more fun than one can imagine. Can't wait to race her !

Ub Hauled
12-30-2008, 12:07 PM
wow Tony, very nice work, how did you attach the aluminum to the hull, "JB" ?

Fluid
12-30-2008, 12:35 PM
My guess is it was very close if not at 50 mph....
Probably a good guess. Brian made a pass with an m445 at the SAWs and had a time of 45 mph...but he was flipping through the lights so the true speed was almost certainly higher.


.

Flying Scotsman
12-30-2008, 02:03 PM
I'm sorry if I'm raining on anyone's parade here, but until {and if} future production runs somehow reinforce this during manufacture, I'd advise anyone who'se going to push this boat hard make an outside-the-hull reinforcing plate like mine. OK, lay the heat on, I'm ready !


Tony, superb advise for those who are going to push the hull beyond the RTR specifications and thank you for sharing this info. No Rain!! just a fellow member advising of his perceptions and resolution.

Douggie

properchopper
12-30-2008, 08:23 PM
wow Tony, very nice work, how did you attach the aluminum to the hull, "JB" ?

Yuppers. First I JB'd the broken piece in & let it cure overnight . Then I laid play-dough on the back of the plate, pushed in place to make an impression of the fin bracket bolt holes & drilled them out. Then scuffed up the boat & the reinforcing bracket & JB'd it in place with clamps. Let it dry overnight & then faired the bracket to the sponson surface with various abrasives. Then bolted on the fin bracket with small "spot welds" of JB to the plate to keep it strong but allow removal if needed for other fins. Ready to rock again. BTW in the middle of all this I discovered that the rudder pin had one loose and one missing setscrew. Rudder could wag a bunch while underway. Shame on me for missing this during blueprinting ; this may have caused some instability in the straights :doh:
Tomorrow I'll re-configure the strut to accept a replaceable strut bushing & replace the stock shaft with an Octura, which is ever-so-slightly larger in diameter to eliminate the propshaft wobble. Also tomorrow comes my new magnetic prop balancer & Ive decided to get the prop caliper Mark Grim showed us & try some prop magic.;)

Grimracer
12-30-2008, 08:55 PM
The boat has a replaceable strut bushing...

Grim

properchopper
12-30-2008, 09:22 PM
The boat has a replaceable strut bushing...

Grim

My apologies, Brother. I looked closer & there it was. :doh: I have way too much dain bramage from all those years in the saddle:ohmy:

alvinsmith75
12-31-2008, 03:09 PM
What strut bushing fits? I looked on tower and it looks like you have to buy the whole strut assembly just to get the bushing?

properchopper
01-01-2009, 07:07 PM
Call me crazy but the water was Fast today ! Ran the UL-1; 2S Elite 35C 5000's & an M445. It was violently fast. [ Same for my VS-1 & DF-33 BTW]. I adjusted the strut for a little downforce [ one or two throttle pulls got 'er up]; added a small airdam & it was simply ripping up the water. Temps were minimal after 2-3 minute runs. No water leaks [ a couple of spray-drops maybe]. I put a paper towel in at Jay's advice but it was bone dry. This boat kicks some serious a** ! :thumbup1:

egneg
01-01-2009, 07:42 PM
Call me crazy but the water was Fast today ! Ran the UL-1; 2S Elite 35C 5000's & an M445. It was violently fast. [ Same for my VS-1 & DF-33 BTW]. I adjusted the strut for a little downforce [ one or two throttle pulls got 'er up]; added a small airdam & it was simply ripping up the water. Temps were minimal after 2-3 minute runs. No water leaks [ a couple of spray-drops maybe]. I put a paper towel in at Jay's advice but it was bone dry. This boat kicks some serious a** ! :thumbup1:

Did this make a difference? My first run with a M445 seemed a bit loose ,,, but then I found that the strut was 1" down and at 3 degrees +. I haven't had a chance to run it since I made the changes.

properchopper
01-01-2009, 09:57 PM
Did this make a difference? My first run with a M445 seemed a bit loose ,,, but then I found that the strut was 1" down and at 3 degrees +. I haven't had a chance to run it since I made the changes.

My strut is 1 1/16 " from the bottom of the hull to the bottom of the strut & is angled down at the back @ 5 deg. The M445 with the 35C Elites is a wild ride; I'll prpbably prop down for fun running.

skibo2
01-04-2009, 03:30 PM
Hi Guys
Just to let everyone know that properchoppers turn fin problem happened to my boat and it was not even out of the shipping box yet. The bottom of the transom below the turn fin mount plate was cracked all the way across. I made the same repair as he did with the aluminum plate and it worked fine. Grim there is a major problem with the hull in that area. It needs to be strenghtened and a larger backing plate installed before assembly.

yudruln8
01-04-2009, 04:13 PM
i also flip my ul-1 today and rip out my turn fin i filled the hole with sticky putty but did not put back the turn fin

properchopper
01-04-2009, 06:36 PM
Guys, I'm truly sorry this has happened to you, although at least I know that I'm not alone or somehow responsible for what I thought was a freak accident. I know that Grim put a lot of heart into this project and will take matters in hand.

yudruln8
01-04-2009, 06:49 PM
do you think the warranty cover this problem

properchopper
01-04-2009, 06:58 PM
It's not for me to say.

skibo2
01-05-2009, 12:50 PM
I am sure that warranty would have covered my boat because it came out of the box broken but after I inspected the damage, I decided that even if I got a new hull the same problem could easily occur so I decided to apply properchoppers plate technique. After installing the plate, I am confident that it would take a major inpact to do any damage.

Jeff Wohlt
01-05-2009, 05:07 PM
From the pics it looks as if the gelcoat is shot in then the alum piece and then glassed. They should gel, glass then put the plate in. Just looks like it is coming apart from the gelocoat. If a person could get to the inside they could drill it on thru and put the plate on the inner side but doubt you can get in there.

I have not seen Mike on here for a few days. He did say to "bare with him" he was looking in to this. I would think warranty would cover it...or it should.

properchopper
01-05-2009, 06:01 PM
I intend to reinforce the inside of the area where the plate is by drilling a hole inside the radio box opposite the sponson & pouring in some epoxy resin.

properchopper
01-06-2009, 06:44 PM
I finally got the courage to drill a hole in the inside of the sponson. Mixed up some 30 min. epoxy thinned with alcohol & poured it in. Held the boat at various angles to let the epoxy flow all around & let it set. Small abs patch will be next.

properchopper
01-11-2009, 06:49 PM
Just to be on the conservative side I put the stock 3-blader on , a little negative strut adjustment & no air dam. Had a ball. Boat was fast but not "on the edge". I'm happy running in this realm & may sneak a little more propping up, but I totally enjoyed the boat set up this way. BTW, absolutely NO water leaked out of the jacket after a very little tightening of the end rings.

Fluid
01-11-2009, 07:09 PM
We had three new UL-1s out running in pretty rough water at yesterday's club meet. We ran on a narrow oval and all three models handled well. Two of us were running K-45 props with good speed, and in spite of 10-15 mph winds only one hydro flipped out of a lot of laps. Racing with older LSH hulls with AquaCraft power and metal props showed the UL-1 to be slightly faster, but then the LSH boats were not really set up yet for their new power. The K-45 gives a much better hole shot and all the speed we need.

BTW, we had one leaky jacket but it was disconnected and the model ran without water cooling. No problem on a 50 degree day, nothing got hot. Too, no one tore out a turn fin in spite of the rough water and the racing. Not to say it won't happen next time out, but clearly not all these boats are as vulnerable as others.



.

egneg
01-11-2009, 07:17 PM
From the pics it looks as if the gelcoat is shot in then the alum piece and then glassed. They should gel, glass then put the plate in. Just looks like it is coming apart from the gelocoat. If a person could get to the inside they could drill it on thru and put the plate on the inner side but doubt you can get in there.

I have not seen Mike on here for a few days. He did say to "bare with him" he was looking in to this. I would think warranty would cover it...or it should.

If this is the case then I would think that drilling a hole and adding epoxy to the inside would be futile. The plate put on the outside to better distribute the load is the only solution at this point. I think I may do this before the turn fin is sacrificed to the pond monster.

Fluid
01-11-2009, 08:43 PM
From the pics it looks as if the gelcoat is shot in then the alum piece and then glassed. They should gel, glass then put the plate in...

Strange observation, that is not at all what I see...but then I have a UL-1. Looking at this photo, you see the aluminum plate, the glass fibers, then presumably the gel coat. The plate is on the inside of the broken off piece. It is assembled just the way the poster suggests.....

The fiberglass seen through the hole in the boat is the inside surface of the interior hull - the hull has two pieces like the Phil Thomas etc. hulls. Squirting in epoxy will clearly help the problem. Gluing an aluminum plate to the outside will rely on how well the gel coat sticks to the fiberglass underneath. I'd prefer to rely on the strength of the actual glass fibers, but that's just me.

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9064&d=1230647039



.

properchopper
01-11-2009, 09:26 PM
The fiberglass seen through the hole in the boat is the inside surface of the interior hull

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9064&d=1230647039



.

Actually what you see through the hole is a loose chunk of "flotation" foam. From the inside of the hull to the outside is : 1] the plate , 2] the fiberglass hull ,3] the gelcoat, 4] the turnfin bracket. That's all. The plate I made for the outside isn't the entire solution. I must say I'm embarassed to admit that after the outside reinforcing plate was installed, and JB'd and cured , the next time out I ran the boat aground :doh: and the hull cracked just behind the plate . [ hydro's "coast" more than mono's I've found out :doh:, and as I stepped up to catch the boat I slipped and fell on my #ss :cursing: ]
I then drilled a hole, filled with thinned epoxy & rolled around to penetrate & seek the weak points & then sealed it up with a small piece of ABS.

Ub Hauled
01-11-2009, 11:13 PM
I saw the so called "slip"... the man dove after the UL to avoid land collision...
Legg is kicking a$$ and taking numbers, the week before it was Henry Velasco's turn, he fell off
the stern of the rescue boat while the thing was beached... I am afraid that next time it'll be me!!!!

Jeff Wohlt
01-11-2009, 11:23 PM
Yes, I can see the FG. Looks like a very small area to be supporting the turnfin. Most have the support that covers the entire sponson wall. Or maybe I should say that most kits have a full support on that hull area.

That areas takes a lot of stress...throwing a 5# hull at 40 mph into a hard corner makes some serious stress on that part.

We can probably agree on that.

This was an isolated issue from one person so I doubt there will be any trouble with others.

Fluid
01-12-2009, 12:01 AM
Yep, the material seen through the hole is not the inner hull - the interior hull does not come that far out to the sponsons. But the plate is positioned behind all the hull glass.

Apparently at least two hulls have broken out the fin, hopefully most will not. I was surprised at the small size of the backing plate - I'd bet the original drawings showed a larger piece of metal there. Some Asian makers have demonstrated that they will shave a penny off a product to gain a little margin...not the way it's usually done in the West.


..

properchopper
01-12-2009, 12:48 AM
[QUOTE=Fluid;68943]Yep, the material seen through the hole is not the inner hull - the interior hull does not come that far out to the sponsons. But the plate is positioned behind all the hull glass.

FWIW, if you pop out the drain plug & hold the boat up to a strong light source & put your eye up to the plug hole, you'll get a pretty good view of what's inside. 'Not sure what this means, but I thought I'd mention it

Jeff Wohlt
01-12-2009, 10:02 AM
Seems Mike or R&D dep. could easily send a larger size pattern to the maker and tell them a larger alum plate it needed. Same everyting else, bolt pattern, etc just larger to cover more area. That would take care of it quickly.

Easy fix if done at the manufact level. Yes, they are good about cutting corners if not stood on hard.

Heck, the real pattern that went from Mike and R&D may just have been larger and we are just now finding out what they are using!

I would say it is worth beefing up BEFORE it fails. Seems you get epoxy in the screw hole and then remount and stand the hull and the tail to let it set on that area. If not there I would come in from the bottom of the sponson with a hole to keep it clean and then touch up the bottom after fixing.

Fluid
01-12-2009, 10:07 PM
FWIW, if you pop out the drain plug & hold the boat up to a strong light source & put your eye up to the plug hole, you'll get a pretty good view of what's inside....

I already tired that Tony, but even with a strong LED flashlight I can't see anything forward of the drain hole but air. Maybe mine got the "short piece" of foam!



,

properchopper
01-12-2009, 10:24 PM
After all's been said & done so far, I'm really happy with mine. It's my first hydro & there's a fair deal of new stuff to learn about setup and driving. That's what makes it so compelling for me. Just running the course by myself is a ball. OK, there's been some mass production ills ; I don't mind sitting at the workbench overcoming them anyway. We'll see how she does in racewater at WW V :olleyes:

Fluid
01-12-2009, 11:01 PM
I agree with Tony, it isn't perfect but close. I really like mine too! I raced mine Saturday in two heats at the HOTMBC event, won both heats against UL-1s and re-powered LSH boats. But I didn't race with Tom Taggart's TomCat, which is clearly faster. And the LSH boats were not fully dialed in.

I'm running 4S1P/5000mAh TP-V2s, a K-45 prop and the bottom of the strut is set 1" below the hull and about 1 degree down at the prop. I didn't run an air dam but in the 10-15 mph winds I should have....had to back off too often. :laugh:


.

properchopper
01-12-2009, 11:38 PM
I'm running 4S1P/5000mAh TP-V2s,:
.

Jay, I have a question {don't I always ?}

Are you running 2 X 4S 1P 5000 V2's ? 10,000 mah & 980g. up front ? Where's your CG ?. [I think I just learned something about my setup !} I've been running 2 2S Elites; total weight 528g. Hmmmm....

Fluid
01-13-2009, 07:32 AM
Nope, two, 2S1P/5000mAh packs in series. The CG is about 2.6" behind the sponsons. My 4S1P/3300mAh TPs will fit crosswise, so I could move the CG forward quite a bit with a 4S2P setup. I just haven't tried it.


.

properchopper
01-13-2009, 09:02 AM
I'm running 4S1P/5000mAh TP-V2s,

.

Was that a typo ? You had my overworked remnant of a brain wondering if I'm using batteries[ 2S 5000 Elites] that were too light & causing issues.

Fluid
01-13-2009, 06:48 PM
Was that a typo ?

No. 4S1P/5000. Two 2S1P/5000mAh packs in series.

The CG on the boat is pretty far forward IMO, but it does work well within the design speed envelope. I may put in one of my 4S1P/3300s crosswise in the front, that would move the CG forward about 1/4" and cut off 7 ounces of weight. A bit less power though. Hmmm.


.

Flying Scotsman
01-13-2009, 07:54 PM
Two of my favourite members.. Properchopper and Fluid.
I have purposely not purchased the UL1 due to perceived teething launch problems. Steven, you will have an order within 3 weeks ( Not Tower Hobbies, as I try to support the FE guys)and thanks to all the Beta testers. As I now know what to do with the minor problems.

Douggie

properchopper
01-13-2009, 10:05 PM
No. 4S1P/5000. Two 2S1P/5000mAh packs in series.

"White"].[/COLOR]

Got it !! :doh:

properchopper
01-13-2009, 10:35 PM
[QUOTE=Flying Scotsman;69201]Two of my favourite members.. Properchopper and Fluid. ] Thanks for the vote of confodence Douggie : I'm just doin' the FE dance and enjoying every minute of it. As far as Jay's concerened, He's been a Hero of mine since my first ever [SAW] race when he stood at my shoulder and coached me into the 2006 LSO record.

[I have purposely not purchased the UL1 due to perceived teething launch problems. Steven, you will have an order within 3 weeks ( Not Tower Hobbies, as I try to support the FE guys)and thanks to all the Beta testers. As I now know what to do with the minor problems.]

Let me know when your boat is on it's way and I'll PM you with what I consider a "blueprinting" list. A few simple things, then Fun Fun !

Flying Scotsman
01-15-2009, 02:19 PM
Tony, the order was placed today Via Visa ...not PayPal. Their loss not mine.
If you would be so kind Tony to PM your "blueprinting list" it would be most appreciated.
I was also thinking of running an X440/3 and an X640 to start with. Any input on these props with this hull?

Douggie

properchopper
01-15-2009, 02:33 PM
Douggie, My pleasure. I'm runnin' out the door to perform one of my 2 part-time
"pay the hobby addiction" bills. I'll shout at 'cha later. :smile:

killjoy781
01-28-2009, 06:33 PM
have they solved this problem yet? if not, when will be the best time to place my order?