New UL-1 Water Jacket

[Kfoss1]

It apears that the 3 piece water jacket on the UL-1 is going to be problematic. The motor measures 1.430 so your upgrade SV jacket which is 1.412 won`t fit. Is it possible to add a glass or aluminum sleeve this size to your catalog? I`m sure it will be a popular item.

[Fluid]

Since the leak is so easy to fix, why replace the jacket? Oh well, it's your money. :zip-up:



.

[Kfoss1]

What`s your recomendation for a fix?

[Steven Vaccaro]

I will have a new jacket once we have some replacement motors to test them on.

[Jeff Wohlt]

Yes, what is the easy fix, Jay? Silicone it up? Use larger O rings or what? Not sure why a three piece was designed.

[detox]

Will the Pro Boat jacket fit? What is the can size of the ProBoat BlackJack motor?

[Grimracer]

Checking my notes..yada yada yada.. ho hum reading……….


Notes about the cooling system on the UL-1

Reading……..
The system blows the lines off at 60PSI..

Grimracer says… if you ever have a line come off either replace it with fresh line or drill a small .032" hole in the back of the rudder blade to relieve the pressure. Or.. use what ever system you like.. clamps.. you get the gig..

Reading….
Looks like the testing I did what at 30psi
Grimracer says.. If you like you can pressure test the system to 30PSI. Use dish soap and a acid brush to cruse any areas that might leak, brass plugs, nipples, O rings..

Reading……..The few that I found the brass plugs leaked. ………I could not tighten down the plugs and make them stop.. A small dab of SI fixed them..

Lets see……. Reading on…..

Looks like we have addressed this with the MFG but it looks like daddys going to have to make contact again.

Grimracer SAYS…….ROCK ON!

Grimracer

[Grimracer]

Dpost

[Kfoss1]

Mine leaked just by blowing on the exit tube with a finger on the rudder hole. We tried tightening the rings and repositioning the sleeve and it still had a cup of water after only 8 laps around a short course. The leak was from the threaded area which I found very loose feeling. Silicone or plumbers tape might work, I just didn`t try it. For now I`ll use the silicone SV sleeve till Steve is able to get some made up.

[Grimracer]

Tightening the rings could have made it worse.. You see..

The O rings become captured between the center barrel and the end caps. I have found that oiling up everything and wha-la.. you can feel the point where the orings start to compress. Over tighten and you can fail the system..

Without the o rings touching (or not in place as it would be) the end caps free spin on the barrel threads.

Grimracer..

[Fluid]

Yes, what is the easy fix, Jay?
Read and ye shall find.

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?t=5999



.

[detox]

I think I fixed the problem. Ace Hardware had a #56 O ring (smaller diameter and thinner) that fits perfect without bulging. I had to slide O rings on motor first, then install endcaps. I used a little dielectric silicone grease to seal treads.

ROCK ON!

[detox]

Do not overtighten end caps or they will SLIP ON THREADS (loose tolerances).

[detox]

While reassebling my water jacket onto motor (using my # 56 orings) I ended up using three "very small drops" of Blue Loctight placed evenly around threads on each end of housing. While Loctight was still wet, I then lightly installed the caps so they where just touching the Orings. I allowed the Loctight to dry for 45 minutes. I then twsted down the endcaps a little further for a good water tight seal. The endcaps are a little harder to twist down once Loctight has dried, but no slippage so far.

[highndry]

Tightening the rings could have made it worse.. You see..

The O rings become captured between the center barrel and the end caps. I have found that oiling up everything and wha-la.. you can feel the point where the orings start to compress. Over tighten and you can fail the system..

Without the o rings touching (or not in place as it would be) the end caps free spin on the barrel threads.

Grimracer..

Clearly, there is an issue, you see, perhaps an addendum to the instructions would be in order offering those words of wisdom. Additionally, tightening the caps seems to me like an obvious solution absent any instruction to the contrary. Given, it is billed as rtr and we as consumers, perhaps unreasonably, expect more from AQ.

[detox]

Even at cold temps the end caps should not slip off threads. I can literally pull end caps off housing using very little strength. Aquacraft screwed up...

[Fluid]

I can literally pull end caps off housing using very little strength. Aquacraft screwed up...

...or the user did. Both of my jackets have tight threads, I can tighten them so there is zero leakage - nice and tight. The tolerances are fine, that part is NOT a design flaw. It may be a QC issue, or user error if the end caps were ever over-torqued - which it seems the poster might have done since he warns against overtightening. The fine threads are just aluminum afterall. ;)

If someone makes an aftermarket cooling jacket I'm sure plenty of folks will buy it. Not me though....:spy:


.

[detox]

The best response is no response.

[Jeff Wohlt]

Detox, you are right...no way should you be able to pull that off. They must be sloppy threads that fit very lose.

What works for Jay Turner may not always work for everyone else. This does not mean you are lame. Every boat is different to a dregee...QC can't be perfect on mass production..never has and never will be. Always have to do some fixes but usually very minor. It is the best Box Art boat that has been produced in a hydro so it may take Grim a few calls to make sure things are getting set up correctly.

I would rather have a coil wrapped around than worry about water and frying stuff. There will be a new jacket for those before long and that issue will be gone.

Anytime you have a compression fitting like that you must be careful not to over compress or you just do more damage. Instead of oil I would use a little vasaline.

[Grimracer]

A few possible scenarios:

It is possible that the parts were manufactured poorly
It is possible that the parts were incorrectly assembled (cross threaded) at the factory
It is possible that the parts were over tightened during assembly
It is possible that the parts were not re-assembled properly after the user took them apart

A few notes:

From what I remember one user took the jacket apart to see what it looked like in there? This was done without testing the system or running the boat? Not sure how this falls on the shoulders of AquaCraft myself, Jay, Bob, Tim, Tina.. get it? Having said this we are responsible for the product its self.. And.. Im here to listen, take notes and act.

One thing I have learned over the years (Internet Forum style). Most of the time when somebody has a failure it’s a lack of understanding that causes the failure. The PC then becomes a hiding place for sharp words or opinions that can come from somebody else.

On a side note.. Jeff.. have you used the new jacket?

Take care racers and ROCK ON IN 09.. I hope to race with a few of you in the coming year.

Grim

[Jeff Wohlt]

Mike...no I do not own one of the UL boats. I have too many hydros already. I'm sure I could fix it, though. Sounds like sloppy threads on most and it is not compressing the O ring in an even manner....or overtightening is a problem.

So my question to you is what is the true benefit of a 3 piece jacket? New design does not always prevail. Tried and true always do.

The real issue is this>>>>The people that fill their boats with water and fry the radio and maybe $150 worth of packs will they be replaced by AQ?

I have built many,many boats so I am not the target as a buyer but noobies may find it a bit alarming.

I am not down on the boat or you in this issue..it just makes me wonder why such a little simple part can be such a pain in the Ass and can do very bad damage for nothing more than a $12 cooling coil.

Sorry if I have agitated you. AQ should be proud of their boat.

[Kfoss1]

Tower shows the UL-1 motors in stock so hopefully steven will get some soon to test and design a cooling jacket for those of us with leakers.:thumbup: All 3 UL`s in our club leak:cool:

[Grimracer]

Jeff..

Not aggravated dude.. not from this..

In the words of my buddy TK…
If you always do what you always did you always get what you always got.

I like to make attempts to push designs.. try new things and in this case a cooler that would not be limited as much by the dia of the can. I have some of the others and I don’t necessarily like them all that well. When adjusted right it works VERY WELL.

Heck.. maybe new designs will be my downfall.. maybe I should just conform.. NA.. BORING……..

I still can not believe Im explaining this to a guy that does not own one..

As for the batteries burring out? I don’t know man.. I have 100s of runs and have yet to have water destroy a batteries.. Now I suspect it can happen but I guess it just has not happen to me.. and.. whos to say the new guys is not going to tape up all that well or bust the boat in two and get the batteries wet…..

Good luck in 09

Grim

[egneg]

First I want to say that I think this boat is great! I agree that the water jacket could use some improvement although I do not think the 3 piece design is a bad one it just needs a bit of improvement. The center cylinder is a bit thin and flexes to easily. The o-ring is to soft and should be a bit higher on the Durometer-A scale. Also it should not have to conform to the threads but have a flat mating surface. I am not saying this to complain but to hopefully make a great boat better.

[Kfoss1]

This is just a minor glitch which is typical in any new product. I`m sure very shortly there will be upgrade choices to remedy any problems. I love my UL and for the money you can`t beat it.:thumbup:

[detox]

A few possible scenarios:

It is possible that the parts were manufactured poorly
It is possible that the parts were incorrectly assembled (cross threaded) at the factory

A few notes:

From what I remember one user took the jacket apart to see what it looked like in there? This was done without testing the system or running the boat? Not sure how this falls on the shoulders of AquaCraft myself, Jay, Bob, Tim, Tina.. get it? Having said this we are responsible for the product its self.. And.. Im here to listen, take notes and act.

One thing I have learned over the years (Internet Forum style). Most of the time when somebody has a failure it’s a lack of understanding that causes the failure. The PC then becomes a hiding place for sharp words or opinions that can come from somebody else.

Grim

The jacket was angled too far toward battery tray making it impossible to install batteries. So I went ahead and took the water jacket apart figuring that it would be easy to Oil, Reassemble, and Align properly...NOT! This water jacket is a BITCH to reinstall and work on as is from the factory. But I finally got it installed and sealed by using a smaller Orings and Loctite.

Rock On.....hopefully!

[Fluid]

I find it humorous that because I have not had problems with my two jackets I have become a target for some. Those in this thread who have problems are very vocal in their righteous indignation condemning the product - yet when I give my own opinion I get sideways/backhanded slander. So be it, good luck with your jackets guys....:tiphat:



.

[Jeff Wohlt]

The compression system is a good design. Seems to work for about 300 million homes that use it in the bathrooms and plumbing. I know what it is and how it works. A good comression ring built for this would be better...it is a wedge that actually puts force on it as it seals. O rings are really not designed to be a compression type structure.

Jay, my only issue is that you expect everyone to know this stuff and it is an easy fix but you forget that thousands that are sold and most do not go to boards to find this out....or they might after they have problems. Will they have a good experience?

Grim... not sure you answered the real question...will AQ replace a system that can possiblly fill a boat with water and destroy packs, radio, etc? I do not need to own an RTR, I build my own.

I think I prasied AQ for one of the best RTR hydros out there. I do not question Grims motive for a new design...I think it is wonderful. My exception is noobies that do not hang on these boards and then have issues. We build our own so this IS targeted to the noobies. With hundreds of runs I question why none of the others leaked when virtually all I have seen commented about do.

Just because I do not own does not make me a noobie or something... I build them, I design parts, I get it. You are explaining it to hundreds here...not just me.

Hey, if we can't discuss it then what good are these boards?

Jay, please don't take the attitude of screw it if you won't listen to me. I know your credentials but you also have to understand where I am coming from....all the noobies that never come here or to RRR or any other forum need some input. I do get e-mails from people that never come here and I want to help them as well.

Sorry if I stepped on any toes but that is why we have a board, thank you very much OSE.

Happy New Year to all.

[Grimracer]

I did not, nore will I.. what good will come of it?

Have fun and good racing in 09

Grimout

[Jeff Wohlt]

Cool. I got the answer I was looking for.

I intended no disrepect to Jay or Mike on this thread. I hope you both realize that. I am just a curious person and still think this is an outstanding boat for the money.

I'm sure the water jacket issue will be conveyed to the assembly team and should be resolved. It is a very little detail but, again, can cause havoc to new boaters that do not know any more than plug it in and throw it in the water. Just looking out for the little noobie guys.

I just may have to go get that new hydro now so I can really understand this small issue.

Hope there are no hard feeelings, Mike and Jay.

Everyone has a great new year.

[Kfoss1]

The jacket was angled too far toward battery tray making it impossible to install batteries. So I went ahead and took the water jacket apart figuring that it would be easy to Oil, Reassemble, and Align properly...NOT! This water jacket is a BITCH to reinstall and work on as is from the factory. But I finally got it installed and sealed by using a smaller Orings and Loctite.

Rock On.....hopefully!

Detox, any test runs yet to see if it works?

[detox]

Detox, any test runs yet to see if it works?

Not Yet, but end caps appear to be seated square against O rings now. I did pressure test using air and did not here any leaks.

[detox]

I just may have to go get that new hydro now so I can really understand this small issue.



This is no small issue. This is world wide

Look here...this dealer in Hawaii has a problem also:

What is the best fix for a leaking motor cooling ring?
I have two customers who have the leaking problem.....

[Jeff Wohlt]

I know it is a big issue. My point with my responses. Anyone here should simply follow Jay's advice and take it apart and try to re-seal it.

At least fill the system with water and blow on it hard to see if it leaks...many may not. That was my only point of this thread response.

[Kfoss1]

Steven expects some motors in about a week so hopefully he can come up with a nice jacket for us very soon!