Feeler thread- FE 1/10 scale unlimited hydro class in IMPBA

[don ferrette]

Ok so I gotta admit the 1/10th scale FE class running in NAMBA has me intrigued. Some things I like- they are based on 4S power which keeps it affordable so people could run "the pretty boats" without spending a couple grand to do so. There are already kits readily available (ML Boatworks has almost 30 different kits and can do more) and ABS cowls as well. Things I'm on the fence about- P limited power choices but I'm leaning more in favor of it as again it keeps costs down and obviously not a records eligible class if it catches on nationally. Things I don't like- running counterclockwise. Yeah I get it the real boats run that way but we don't run 1/8 that way and everything else goes clockwise. No curved turn fins, personally I like the idea of better handling boats.

So.........

I'd like some POSITIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE input from IMPBA folks who might want to try this out and NAMBA racers who already run it and what they like about it. Ideas and thoughts are welcome BUT if there are any "pissin' and moanin" posts I'll ask mods to remove them immediately. I think we could try this on a district/local level and I'd have no issues with writing a set of rules.

So let's hear some thoughts and feedback. :cool:

[RayR]

Don,

my thoughts mirror yours, would prefer clockwise and stable handling. As well, a 36”boat is a lot easier to transport.

[T.S.Davis]

We love this class up here Don. We adopted a version of the NAMBA rule set with some modifications. I can send it to ya. We went with motor size instead of the list form NAMBA. We limited guys to 1700kv but rely on the honer system. We can do that locally. Everyone runs the same danged motor anyway.

Turning left makes it even cooler. It's something different. Honestly, the tuning becomes much like the real boats. You can't just throw power at them. Especially the vintage. Those old shovel get weird when pushed. So it comes down to strut adjustments, CG, prop lift vs pitch vs thrust cone, ride pads, wings actually do something. It's just a different thought process. Different challenges.

I think the coolest bit is that all of the boats are similar in speed. Nobody runs away with the class. They look bad a$$ racing too.

I believe the guys in Seattle run a number of different versions. Like a stock modern, stock vintage, and an open modern. They have the numbers to pull it off though. The stock class runs a motor list. Open is just that......go crazy. Those sound like expensive crashes though.

[raptor347]

Spec power is PLENTY for these boats. They're faster than most designs can handle. On the 1500 kV motor, 19xx and 20xx series ABC props are common.

Turning direction used to be very limiting due to prop selection. Not a problem anymore with all the RH ABC props available.

The vintage boats with the small skid fin tend to get together in the corners a lot. there are design tweaks you can make to the hull to get them to turn pretty well.

I'd skip the strait driveline rule, makes tuning so much easier. The strait shaft rule really leans toward the serious prop guys.

The boats are cool. The ML kits run great and there are some very good composite boats available as well.

Just my take after 10 years of exposure.

[don ferrette]

Good stuff, keep it coming. Here's something that got put out to me in an email- if we truly want to help keep costs down make it wood only hulls, no composites or glass. Hmmm......... interesting as it does keep the high dollar carbon, etc types out of the equation and that would help keep weight fairly similar I would think. Gotta admit I can see a positive side to that, anyone please feel free to comment on that thought. :smile:

[T.S.Davis]

For what it's worth......we have wood ML kits and multiple composites in our club. The Bradshaw boats look incredible but that doesn't make them win. We also have a NAMBA nats wining Snowman boat. It's probably the fastest composite in our gang. It's no match for the wood ML kit I build for Ty. I totally get wanting to keep the cost down but don't get hung up on composite vs wood. Doesn't equate to wins. I think (I could yet be proven wrong) that it would be tough to buy wins in this class.

Honestly, wins are a bonus. The fun of the class is them being out there together looking like the real thing. Two shovels coming out out of 4 together is just cool to see. You can almost imagine the driver gritting his teeth to keep from biting his tongue off.

[leonard feeback]

Another thing to think about is not everyone can build a wood hull. Now they have to have it built and the cost is back to wood and building cost equals composite. I'm with Terry, you still have to have a good setup and handling boat and a little luck to win. This class ISN'T a over powered hulls to get a win. Fun and close racing at a fun speed.

[don ferrette]

Thanks Terry and Leonard, point well taken. Also so far with IMPBA folks I've chatted with about this the vast majority want clockwise running to keep it simple for both racers and those running it, I'm basically on board with that myself as well but still in the discussion phase. Again keep the feedback coming as it's greatly appreciated. :thumbup1:

[T.S.Davis]

I would avoid flipping the bird to existing NAMBA racers. If it ever did take off you want cross over racers. Think NAMBA 1/8 scale. Planning to run NAMBA 1/8 scale ever in yer life? That class is dead to IMPBA racers.

[don ferrette]

I would avoid flipping the bird to existing NAMBA racers. If it ever did take off you want cross over racers. Think NAMBA 1/8 scale. Planning to run NAMBA 1/8 scale ever in yer life? That class is dead to IMPBA racers.They killed off half of their own FE 1/8 guys with that move but don't get me started on that one ...... again. :tongue: Honestly I'm going to build mine (kit shipped today) with a backer behind both sponson heals so I can do a turn fin on either side. Even if we were to go clockwise a simple prop change, motor connection swap to change rotation and turn fin change and it'll go the other way. And I wonder how many NAMBA guys would actually cross not to mention NAMBA has flipped the bird to the IMPBA a few times (FE 1/8 scale, gas thunderboat, sport 40.....)

[T.S.Davis]

I get it but with FE we don't have a crap ton of racers to begin with. We need to not piss up each organizations legs if we can avoid it. Flipping the bird to NAMBA because NAMBA did is like two wrongs making a right. I honestly don't care about this organization/that organization. What ever gets guys to play toy boats and even better.....race em. Let's do that. Boats on the water.....racing.......yes please.

I think you would dig the lefties Don. It's something different and the boats that we're trying to emulate don't turn right anyway.

[don ferrette]

I get it but with FE we don't have a crap ton of racers to begin with. We need to not piss up each organizations legs if we can avoid it. Flipping the bird to NAMBA because NAMBA did is like two wrongs making a right. I honestly don't care about this organization/that organization. What ever gets guys to play toy boats and even better.....race em. Let's do that. Boats on the water.....racing.......yes please.

I think you would dig the lefties Don. It's something different and the boats that we're trying to emulate don't turn right anyway.Agreed, in the end it's about getting boats on the water.

[T.S.Davis]

Heats.....even better

[785boats]

If our AMPBA here in Australia ever wanted expressions of interest for 1/10 scale racing, I'd be the first to vote yes.
I love the whole idea of emulating the real thing. Looks like bags of fun to me.

[don ferrette]

Regardless of what direction we decide to run in the thing that I think is gonna really give this a kick in pants to get going is cost. I've already ordered the motor, mount and ESC, once the ML kit gets here early next week I'll figure battery space and order what I need. Bottom line is I'll have less than $250 in the entire drive train, I've spent far more than that just for the motor in my FE 1/8 scales. About $200 will cover an ML kit, ABS cowl from Hydroscale, ply sheeting and glue. Add in some hardware, paint (you can even use rattle cans 'cause it's FE) and graphics and you can be on the water for as little as $800. Affordable, smaller and more manageable size of the prettiest boats on the water, I think we might have a winner here. :smile:

[785boats]

Just out of interest Don, which kit did you order for the 1/10 scale?
And yes, they are certainly a lot cheaper to build & fit out than the 1/8 scale.

[racerr73]

Question for T.S.DAVIS

What motor, esc, battery mah capacity and prop do must of you guys run in your club for these 1/10th boats?

Thanks
Trev

[don ferrette]

Just out of interest Don, which kit did you order for the 1/10 scale?
And yes, they are certainly a lot cheaper to build & fit out than the 1/8 scale.

I'll be making the 2017 Miss Rock which is basically the Pico (Leland) hull. :cool:

[HOTWATER]

Interested as are a few of the D.12 FE gang...could be just the thing that D.12 needs to break the slump...?

[HOTWATER]

I would build an ML 1/10 scale kit (83'- 84' Miss Renault) but can somebody tell me where to buy carbon/ fg / abs 10th scale hulls?

[T.S.Davis]

http://www.hydroscalecreations.us/

[T.S.Davis]

Question for T.S.DAVIS

What motor, esc, battery mah capacity and prop do must of you guys run in your club for these 1/10th boats?

Thanks
Trev

We've been running the Proboat 1500. Some guys are getting away with as little as 5000mah but my kids boat carries 6500. Seems to balance his just right. We've tried a number of different props. A good all around starting point is a CNC 4814-R Reversed Magnalium 7075 propeller. Steve sells them on OSE here. Some boats can take more prop obviously but to get started sorting out the boat that's a good place to start.

[racerr73]

Thanks for your reply Terry, also what amperage esc's do you use for this set up.

Thanks
Trev

[T.S.Davis]

You can get away with a 120. I like Raider 150 though. Cheap and easy.

[Mike W]

Good stuff, keep it coming. Here's something that got put out to me in an email- if we truly want to help keep costs down make it wood only hulls, no composites or glass. Hmmm......... interesting as it does keep the high dollar carbon, etc types out of the equation and that would help keep weight fairly similar I would think.
Minimum weight?

[T.S.Davis]

Yikes. No weight requirement please.

Skinned our 8255 with 1/32 to keep the weight down. It's very nearly too light and border line too fragile. Broke the trans off that bugger twice. Kick up rudder advised. DOH!

[785boats]

I'll be making the 2017 Miss Rock which is basically the Pico (Leland) hull. :cool:

Thanks Don. Looks cool.

[785boats]

I would build an ML 1/10 scale kit (83'- 84' Miss Renault) but can somebody tell me where to buy carbon/ fg / abs 10th scale hulls?

You won't be dissappointed with that hull. A great looking boat.
I built one, but used a cowling on it as I wanted it to race in our 4s Sports Hydro class. It races well against Whiplashes & ML Boatworks kits.
Here she is.

[Mike W]

Yikes. No weight requirement please.

Skinned our 8255 with 1/32 to keep the weight down. It's very nearly too light and border line too fragile. Broke the trans off that bugger twice. Kick up rudder advised. DOH!

:buttrock:

[HOTWATER]

You won't be dissappointed with that hull. A great looking boat.
I built one, but used a cowling on it as I wanted it to race in our 4s Sports Hydro class. It races well against Whiplashes & ML Boatworks kits.
Here she is.

Awesome! Thanks for posting the pic!

[HOTWATER]

Well, I've been doing some research on buying boat kit, parts, decals etc...trying to find out how much the cowl, driver, dummy engine and wing are from hydroscalecreations.us...Sent an email to Mitch a couple days ago but have yet to get a reply...anybody buy stuff from him? I'm guessing he's a one man operation...

[HOTWATER]

Update:
Just heard back from Mitch @ hydroscalecreations...all good! Good info from him and offered a couple different variations of the scale model to choose from.

[klloyd67]

Update:
Just heard back from Mitch @ hydroscalecreations...all good! Good info from him and offered a couple different variations of the scale model to choose from.


I'm in the middle of building a 2009 U-3 Master Tire, I will be posting some pics soon. It's one of Mike's kits and some parts from Mitch as well. First attempt at FE after running nitro in WA. Lean numbers in AZ but there are a few guys. I can't wait to see the Turbinator on the water.

[don ferrette]

Already into the build of mine, got maybe 4 hours so far. The ML kits make this easy, I think this is gonna be a seriously fun class the get going here on the east coast.

[T.S.Davis]

Could be a good class for Atlanta. I'm already working our guys over to commit to traveling there.

[HOTWATER]

You guys using AC UL-1 system for 1/10 scalers?

[tjcast]

You guys using AC UL-1 system for 1/10 scalers?

We've found the best motor for 10th scale is the Dynamite 1500Kv, and your choice of esc

[tjcast]

I'll be making the 2017 Miss Rock which is basically the Pico (Leland) hull. :cool:

My Miss Rock
160929
and the real thing
160935

[tjcast]

I would build an ML 1/10 scale kit (83'- 84' Miss Renault) but can somebody tell me where to buy carbon/ fg / abs 10th scale hulls?

My Miss Renault
160930

[HOTWATER]

We've found the best motor for 10th scale is the Dynamite 1500Kv, and your choice of esc

Gotcha...Thanks and thanks for posting pics of your boats...very nice!

[HOTWATER]

My Miss Renault
160930

The Renault decals: is the "Miss Renalt" decal one peice with white background...or is the white under the "Miss Renault" paint?

[don ferrette]

My Miss Rock
160929

SWEET! How wide (front to back) did you make your front canard wing?

[tjcast]

One piece decal

[don ferrette]

One pieceHow wide?

[tjcast]

SWEET! How wide (front to back) did you make your front canard wing?
Non-adjustable front part 2", adjustable back 1.25" picture only shows the fixed canard

[don ferrette]

Non-adjustable front part 2", adjustable back 1.25"

3.25" total width, thanks!

[HOTWATER]

One piece decal

Sweet! TY!

[HOTWATER]

Ok, as far as the Pro Boat motors go...I have looked at two different 3630 1500kv motors. One motor I looked at has a gray colored can and blue endbell covers with short wires...the other has a blue can and blue endbell covers with longer wires. What is the difference between the two?

[don ferrette]

Rolling along and making good progress, still only have about 3 evenings worth of time, the ML kits make this simple. I will say that so far in terms of feedback from IMPBA members both in and outside my district who are interested in this, virtually all prefer clockwise running. If you look at this pic you'll see each sponson has a turn fin backer already drilled and tapped so I can try it both ways. :cool2:

[raptor347]

One advantage to running clockwise is no need for separated open water.

[T.S.Davis]

Please please please don't ignore a segment of existing racers. Did we learn nothing from the NAMBA scale proposal?

[T.C.]

Ya haven't even run the boat and already want to change the rules ?
I don't get it ?
T.C.

[don ferrette]

One advantage to running clockwise is no need for separated open water.That is a point that was brought up to me by two different people

[don ferrette]

Please please please don't ignore a segment of existing racers. Did we learn nothing from the NAMBA scale proposal?I'm not ignoring it Terry as I said I'm setting my boat up to try it both ways, you should know me well enough that I always put the racers first. That being said when I draft up set of rules for us to run locally to get this off the ground and see if it's viable I will do what suits the majority and what they want to do. And yeah I've learned plenty from NAMBA over the years in that they don't give two cents about the IMPBA nor the ability to cross over. This has been proven out time and time again in the past and most recently with the FE scale fiasco. And to quote a former high ranking NAMBA official whose name I will not mention- "fxxx the IMPBA, we don't give a shxt about them" Yeah I've learned alright...........

[don ferrette]

Ya haven't even run the boat and already want to change the rules ?
I don't get it ?
T.C.Ummm... we don't have any rules for this class in IMPBA yet. As I mentioned I plan to try both ways but in the end will do what fits the needs of those who will actually build and run them and if they want to run clockwise so be it. I will say that with as small as these boats are I don't think it's going to be an issue to set them up to run in either direction as a left mounted turn fin, reverse wound flex shaft and prop and a motor rotation change has one going counterclockwise.

[klloyd67]

Don, is your turn fin backer 1/4"?

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[T.C.]

Yea , except for the offset boats ? Mike makes kits either way, what do ya buy?
T.C.

[don ferrette]

Don, is your turn fin backer 1/4"?

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

Nah 1/8" is all you'll need

[klloyd67]

Tapped 8-32?

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[don ferrette]

Yea , except for the offset boats ? Mike makes kits either way, what do ya buy?
T.C.Well honestly for years guys have been building wood late model 1/8th scales with the offset to the left (like the full size boats) and they perform just fine running clockwise. There are current 'glass hulls also that way from Moceri, RC Boat Company and others that again work fine so I don't think it's going to be an issue. :smile:

http://www.rcboatcompany.com/SG118H.html

[don ferrette]

Tapped 8-32?

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

6-32"

[klloyd67]

Thanks Don

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[don ferrette]

This thing is going together fast, got maybe 8 hours total time in it. The laser cut ML Boatworks kit is making this super easy, have not had to sand or trim a single kit piece. Can't imagine what a royal PIA it would be to hand cut stuff this small. :blink:

http://woodrcboatkits.com/index.php/scale-kits.html?cat=5

[HOTWATER]

Nice!! Have a small stack of questions for you but I'll save them for the Capitol race when I see ya

[T.S.Davis]

I don't care what NAMBA is up to either Don. I do care about the racers though. It would be nice if guys chose to travel to race like for instance..........an FE nats in Atlanta ............the host club didn't have to chose one or the other. I get that local clubs can do what ever they want but it's better for all if they think a little bigger.

[don ferrette]

I don't care what NAMBA is up to either Don. I do care about the racers though. It would be nice if guys chose to travel to race like for instance..........an FE nats in Atlanta ............the host club didn't have to chose one or the other. I get that local clubs can do what ever they want but it's better for all if they think a little bigger.All good man. I'm gonna be at a district race next weekend and again in September and will bring my 1/10th, let people check it out up close and get some solid feedback. The other reason I'm setting mine up with turn fin backers on each side is I'll be ready to run Atlanta regardless of the direction they run in. :thumbup1:

[HOTWATER]

You guys are awesome for posting here (Pics and thoughts)...please remember that this is a "feeler thread" to gather rc boaters interests in this class. Nothing has been written in stone on what the rules will be. I have a few questions myself for Don but will ask him off of this thread as I do not want things to get stirred up here. Remember, this would (hopefully) be a new class for our District and we really could use a positive outcome! Thanks fellas!! ; )

[ray schrauwen]

I'd run a 1/10th if I could find a modern version rtr at a good price. Or hull and hardware. I used to be good at detail work but seem to have lost patience for it. I hate painting too, lol...

[don ferrette]

Ok so we just completed a district race and I brought my framed up 1/10th to show and discuss what those interested would want as far as coming up with a set of district rules since this is not an IMPBA class as of yet. I did mention the NAMBA rules for this class. Had a lot of good feedback from both potential racers showing serious interest as well as those who CD various district races and so far this is what we have-

1- there is zero interest in running counterclockwise, all want to run the same as we do now in all other classes. A couple key points given to me were-
a) no need for separate open water.
b) no need for extra corner entrance buoys
c) in a panic situation (avoiding a wreck, etc) one will tend to "react right"
d) no special props, fins etc. (guys had stuff already from 4S limited classes they want to use)

2- keep it simple and easy to build as in no straight shafts, allow curved fins so they handle better, etc
3- let them all run together like we do in 1/8th scale, no separate vintage/modern classes.

Nobody objected to the motor limits and actually were excited about keeping costs down. A couple racers involved in the conversations have stuff sitting around that will work in this class. We even had a new member there who already has a legit 1/10th built and another over 1/2 way done and was thrilled at the idea of a class specifically for them (see attached pic) and they are set up for right hand turning so us running these in D12 in the normal clockwise direction is pretty much looking like the direction we will take. We will get together again at the next district race in 3 weeks and I hope to have mine built up a good bit further to show again.

[T.S.Davis]

Well at least you can be assured your guys wont have to race anyone outside your district.

[don ferrette]

Well at least you can be assured your guys wont have to race anyone outside your district.

You said and I quote "I do care about the racers" well so do I and if this is the way the majority wants it so be it. The points brought up this weekend are quite valid. How many clubs are gonna want to hold separate open water for a single class? Or add extra entrance buoys? This feedback came unsolicited even after I showed them my boat was being built to go either rotation. What are you gonna do if this class catches on running clockwise elsewhere in the IMPBA? You need to think outside the FE box my friend, the vast majority of clubs out there are mixed and smart money says they'll want to keep things simple. :wink:

[T.S.Davis]

I'm in a box? The beauty of going the way the real boats go is that it's "out of the box". You have to learn something new. I guess you can do the same old thing. Might as well just run sport IMO.

If you do it different than the existing racers the likelyhood of them racing with you is nil. A rule set that divides them is good because?............

I guess I just think bigger than a district because I travel. If I go to an event it would be cool if we were all running the same thing. If it takes off going the wrong way I guess we'll continue to only run it in MI and not race them on the road so to speak.

[don ferrette]

I'm in a box? The beauty of going the way the real boats go is that it's "out of the box". You have to learn something new. I guess you can do the same old thing. Might as well just run sport IMO.

If you do it different than the existing racers the likelyhood of them racing with you is nil. A rule set that divides them is good because?............

I guess I just think bigger than a district because I travel. If I go to an event it would be cool if we were all running the same thing. If it takes off going the wrong way I guess we'll continue to only run it in MI and not race them on the road so to speak.So......... let me ask you this- how many already exist that are current IMPBA members that would actually travel to other IMPBA districts to race are we talking about? 4? 6? 10?

And if the racers and clubs holding races ultimately decide that clockwise rotation is preferred then it's certainly not "the wrong way" to them. I mean you no disrespect whatsoever but I'm looking at the big picture Terry - what will generate the most activity, participation and boats on the water for the entire organization as a whole, not just say a few guys out of Michigan.

[T.S.Davis]

No disrespect detected Don. We're just blabb'n.

Both organizations ability to ignore each other and in some cases defy each other shocks me repeatedly. 8th scale from NAMBA and now 10th scale from IMPBA. You're district is even ignoring other IMPBA members running it and the guys that ran it at the nationals. Plus, I really thought guys would be interested in a challenge. Something different. Something harder.

All our heats turn the wrong way Don. The only one's going the right way were 10th scales. How do we call it "scale" at all? The boats aren't even sorta scale when we ignore the boats we are emulating.

If there were a nationals in say Atalanta for instance and they decided to offer "10th scale" I guess we'll continue to have the debate and some wont be racing. Or much more likely there will be 4 guys from your district and 4 guys from my district in Atlanta. Net result is of course no heats.

[Doug Smock]

Just my .02 fwiw guys as I don't see this class flying in D13 anytime in the near future but.. This class has run at the last three or four Spring Nationals and all the boats came from the MMEU IIRC. Maybe one from Fla. We made no changes to the race course and I don't recall open water being an issue at all.

[Doug Smock]

Forgot to mention they are cool to watch and seem like a lot of fun. I'd have one if I'd race it more than twice a year..��

[T.S.Davis]

I'm fine with letting clubs or districts do their own thing. It's the way of both organizations really. If it puts butts on the drivers stand do it. I get it. Paralleling what other districts do might be of value though. We already ran into this with another power scheme. District A was doing it different than that district B. We didn't have a clear definition of the class so when the racers wanted to get together the host had to pick a way that would make heats. In this case there is no common water. The two can't coexist.......ever. We're not talking about a silly drive dog rule.

Guess I'm over thinking it. It's definitely not for everyone.

[T.C.]

I think the organization needs to decide the "intent" of the class.
Is it to simulate the real boats in respect to the way they look and run, in 1/10th scale, or just another hydro class.
As for open water these boats don't corner like other hydro's, they tend to skate. So holding a lane along side a sport scale hydro in a corner is asking for disaster .
The way they drive is what makes them cool though, especially the vintage boats.
JMHO T.C.

[T.S.Davis]

These guys wont experience any of that. They're using hooked fins. That slide n' glide wont happen.

[don ferrette]

I think the organization needs to decide the "intent" of the class.
Is it to simulate the real boats in respect to the way they look and run, in 1/10th scale, or just another hydro class.
As for open water these boats don't corner like other hydro's, they tend to skate. So holding a lane along side a sport scale hydro in a corner is asking for disaster .
The way they drive is what makes them cool though, especially the vintage boats.
JMHO T.C.I hear you but with all due respect you let members decide. If this gains stream and the majority want right hand turns then that is how it shall be. You should not cater to one small group or club's wishes over the good and/or desires of the majority in an organization, that is how you wind up with stuff happening like the NAMBA 1/8 FE scale fiasco. I have been clear from the start that I will roll either way and my current build is going together to allow both. All I am doing at this point is sharing feedback that has come my way so far from those showing a genuine interest in this. And you missed the point completely about open water, if they run opposite of other classes you can't have them out there when other are running the other way hence the need for separate open water. And if the "intent" was to simulate the real ones then why are we running 1/8th FE and nitro for that matter in a clockwise direction??

[T.C.]

And if the "intent" was to simulate the real ones then why are we running 1/8th FE and nitro for that matter in a clockwise direction??

Good question: Not really sure, maybe back in the day some rocket scientist figured the torque of the motor and prop rotation would help in getting around a RH corner, and the FE guys just copy what the nitro people do.

You would have to ask someone that was there, could be as simple as not many motors ran well in the opposite direction back then?
I would like to know the answer .
T.C.

[T.S.Davis]

You should not cater to one small group or club's wishes over the good and/or desires of the majority in an organization,

Which is exactly what you're doing. You quizzed guys that have never run them to see how they wanted to do it and ignored the guys that were already doing it. Wait.....this sounds super familiar...........where have we heard this before? Oh I remember..................NAMBA's 8s scale proposal. Quiz the guys racing them? Nope, they knew better.

1/8 scale turning right dates back to the motors and propellers available. I guess............I'm ignorant in this regard. Why do nitro scales turn right? Props or motors that turned that way? I don't really know. Always seemed silly to me to call them "scale". There are guys that are crazy into the detail. The right paint. The right graphic. The right pickle depth. Driver with his life vest. Then build them completely backwards and call them "scale"? ummmmkayyyy.

1/8 FE turns right because the only boats available were those that already turned right. They were nitro hulls. Velasko, Thomas, Muck, etc. Nobody was building from wood then. Plus, some of the guys that scribbled the original IMPBA scale rules were delusional. Their plan was to run with the nitro boys. That's just never going to work. Apples and cake are both delicious but they make a crappy salad.

[tjcast]

Prop rotation strongly effects turning. Back in the day there weren't many right handed props. Trying to turn a boat left with a left handed rotating prop, especially at 8th scale speeds, was/is next to impossible. 10th scales, at slower speeds and a little throttle control, are able to make the left hand turn even with a left handed rotating prop. With the availability of more and more right handed props and brushless motors being able to turn either way, it made turning counter clockwise easier.

In my opinion the ability to emulate the real Unlimiteds in turning is one of the great things about this class. If you're going to run this class clockwise you should call it "Semi-Scale".

[T.S.Davis]

How about "Sorta Scale"?

[don ferrette]

Which is exactly what you're doing. You quizzed guys that have never run them to see how they wanted to do it and ignored the guys that were already doing it. Wait.....this sounds super familiar...........where have we heard this before? Oh I remember..................NAMBA's 8s scale proposal. Quiz the guys racing them? Nope, they knew better.

Wrong. Terry please....... stop.......... take a breath..... and let this sink in..... All I have been doing is sharing FEEDBACK received so far. AGAIN when the smoke clears and the dust settles we will do what the MAJORITY wants, if it's left we go left and if it's right we go right. And that certainly is NOT what NAMBA did in regards to FE 1/8th, that was what one group rammed down everyone else's throats under false pretense. And AGAIN how many IMPBA members are you talking about that are "already doing it"? And more importantly how many of them will venture outside their own sandbox?

1/8 scale turning right dates back to the motors and propellers available. I guess............I'm ignorant in this regard. Why do nitro scales turn right? Props or motors that turned that way? I don't really know. Always seemed silly to me to call them "scale". There are guys that are crazy into the detail. The right paint. The right graphic. The right pickle depth. Driver with his life vest. Then build them completely backwards and call them "scale"? ummmmkayyyy.

Funny how this was never an issue until this new 10th scale class came around. So everyone else is wrong even though it's been this way for YEARS? To quote you- ummmmkayyyy. :roflol:

1/8 FE turns right because the only boats available were those that already turned right. They were nitro hulls. Velasko, Thomas, Muck, etc. Nobody was building from wood then. Plus, some of the guys that scribbled the original IMPBA scale rules were delusional. Their plan was to run with the nitro boys. That's just never going to work. Apples and cake are both delicious but they make a crappy salad

Incorrect. Even though they were hand made from plans wood scale hulls were around long before glass hulls. And I guessed you missed it earlier when I posted how there have been (and still are) glass hulls molded just like the real boats (Fritz, R/C Boat Co, Moceri, etc) and they actually work just fine going right. And the IMPBA FE scale rules most certainly were not penned to "run with the nitro boys". I know because I looked into running an FE 1/8th scale back when nickel metal cells were being used, lipos weren't around yet and had conversations with those "in the know" at that time. The turn off for me was the cost of top line cells and imported motors.

And I'll say it again- bottom line if this actually gets going enough to look at a set of national rules down the road we will do what the majority of racers want to do.

[T.S.Davis]

Wasting my breath....er....fingers. Don, I've been doing this rot since before Nimh. Damned matched cells were killinggggg me. I was there for the first FE 1/8 scale heats in the US. I was CD and Waters was calling the heats.

The original NAMBA rules were written by three dudes in a hotel room in Jersey in 2006. They were basically what was already being raced.

The IMPBA set was an adaptation of the great lakes gentlemens agreement. That's where the motor list came from. That set was hashed out on Pete Steinky's forum. Pete was a scale guy too. Three of those "gentlemen" were trying to run with the nitro guys in D2.

At that point neither organization ignored the existing boats/racers that were out there. Just in case there was ever a chance they could race together. Like a nats or a Michigan Cup.

The scale boats turning right isn't an issue exactly. I just don't know why they go the wrong way. I'm completely ignorant. Just doesn't seem like the choice a true scale junky would make.

Same thing with the hooked fins in both orgs. Mark Webber came by with Gold Cup for a race a few seasons ago. Photo op....p"ching! Hung out. Watched us race. Asked "why the heck do you run hooked fins." They were sport boats he was asking about but we all know they work on scales too. It does take away from the scale.....ness a bit. An issue? Not really but the boats are completely and utterly different animals with a hook. The slide n' glide mentioned earlier goes away. To some that's part of the allure. Its a different driving style.

Having two districts or more running it different will guarantee the BOD wouldn't give it the seal of approval anyway. So overthinking it.........again. hahaha. Kinda my thing.

[don ferrette]

Terry ya know I think the world of ya man. In the end all I wanna do is get boats on the water be it left, right or figure 8s. Hmmm, figure 8s... now THAT would be a hoot, like the old demolition derby days. :roflol::roflol::roflol:

[dethow]

How does IMPBA decide what the majority wants?
As far as I see the BODs decide which rules they are willing to put out there for vote and then those rules may or may not pass based on membership (majority) vote.

So Terry... I see your concern. Don showed his cards with this statement "and they are set up for right hand turning so us running these in D12 in the normal clockwise direction is pretty much looking like the direction we will take."

But be careful Terry and Tom. Create too much controversy on the issue and IMPBA will never put rules in the book. They'll just allow the classes to run at National Events and let the host club dictate the rules. And those rules may be different from year to year. Just a can of worms that's now been opened and you'll all have to live with.

Bottom line is that if IMPBA seriously wants to consider adding 10th scale to the rule book then there should be serious consideration given to the already existing NAMBA rules for 10th scale so that cross over can occur. And I’d have to think that since 10th scale has been in the NAMBA rules and clubs have built boats and run those rules… it’d be an easy calculation to say that’s what MAJORITY of racers want. They want to use their boats that are already built and not have them made obsolete due to a turn fin being on the wrong side to meet IMPBA lap directions.

Terry and Tom, Is MMEU ready to go back to NAMBA yet???
1.) They have fixed their issue on oversight for rule proposals.
2.) They have added conduct accountability at events and talk of expanding to outside events.
3.) They have P-Limited rules in the book and are WILLING to modify them to fit modern needs.
4.) They have offshore rules in the book and MAY be willing to discuss modifications.
5.) They have 10th Scale in the book already. Proper left hand turning. No hooked fins on Vintage.

Just seems to me that IMPBA is showing over and over again that they want to do what they want to do regarding FE with no regard to NAMBA or what the real majority want. And then beyond that they’ve drawn a line in the sand on some classes they just don’t want in the book (despite the majority wanting them) and will move forward by allowing host clubs to dictate rules at National Events. This means there could be different rules from year to year based on what the host club and current BODs want with no regard for what full membership wants or consistency.

Just something to think about guys…

[mpschofield]

Ok David... I have read enough of your non sense to finally bite. Probably shouldnt but I'll bite and respond to you continued slander towards IMPBA.

First one. How does the board decide what members want? Well David it takes a group of boaters to propose a rule change. This gets approved, denied or tabled during a board meeting by those that attend. If its approved it goes for a one year trial and then the membership gets to decide yay or nay to add class/rule what have you to the rule book. So thats how members decide.

Me personally all I want to know if its good for the membership and good for the hobby. Do we need to put a class in the rule book everytime 5-6 guys build the same boat thats not a class.... probably not. You grow the hobby at the local level not in the rule book. I think its great that the Michigan guys run 1/10 scale different than Don and the virginia guys will. Chances of them getting together to run a race. Slim. Chances of each club gaining more boats to the club by doing what works for them. Probable. You talk as if IMPBA has started to draft rules to work against others. That is NOT TRUE
All that is taking place is a discussion. Holy cow..

If you want something changed then write an actual proposal and submit it the way you are supposed to and how everyone else has in the past. You state that the BOD turn down classes even though that majority of members want them. Well im dying to know what classes the BOD have completley turned down to not allow membership to vote on them. (Possibly the P- Spec Class?)

Instead of wasting all of your energy to write these posts why dont you propose some rules.... I have raced and chatted with many of your comrades. Nice passionate bunch of boaters. Thats what got me hooked on this hobby was the people not the classes in the rule book.

Im all done and going to go sniff some gas fumes.... Peace.

Can we please get back to the kit that Don stole right from under me on IW ;)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[dethow]

Matt,
Congrats on your upcoming presidency and I really hope some positive changes may come.

To answer your questions quick:
1.) The board doesn’t decide what members WANT…But they do decide what members GET. If a proposal is made that the BODs don’t like they can and will terminate the proposal and it never goes to membership vote.
2.) Option # 3 does not come into effect if the proposal was terminated by the BODs.
3.) No, IMPBA shouldn’t put a class in the book that 5-6 guys have a boat for. But a class that is the most popular in all of FE should be considered for the rule book. I can’t say the classes or the moderators here will delete the post. But I’m not talking about 10th Scale.
4.) I do state that the BODs turn down classes even though the majority of members want them. And that’s why it’s no use making proposals because the BODs have made it clear privately and publically that there is a VERY popular class in FE that they just will not consider to be allowed in the rule books. Again… not talking about 10th Scale.

Matt I really do hope you can stand back and take a look at the current course for FE in IMPBA and the way classes have been allowed to run at the last FE Nationals and be awarded National Champion status. If the classes are not in the rule book they should not be getting those designations.

Sorry you see things I say as slander, but I do argue that something has to be false to be slander and I’ve said nothing that’s not true. The reason I’m pissing off so many in IMPBA is that there are no answers for these truths. The most recent responses are that I’m the only one who cares that rules are being broken so I should just shut up.

Again… I hope you and the future of IMPBA may change that. Good luck to you.

But with all this and that said... I'm not getting drug back into a forum debate for people to demonize me for wanting rules followed and wanting the BODs to do what majority of members want. As I said, I hope you will step back and look at the situation. I'm more then willing to have a private phone conversation with you to discuss if you'd like. I'm not the A-Hole some have demonized me to be. Just PM and we can exchange some contact info if you'd like. If not... best of luck to you. But please don't accuse my of slander again unless you can site a false statement I made.

And please back too 10th scale discussion please.... sorry to point out a continued lack of potential consistency in rules. All I guess I'm saying is that you'd get more turn out at National Events if more guys ran the same rules. Keep promoting that each district do their own thing and you'll have 15 districts racing within district only let alone allowing for close over with NAMBA racers.

Because that's something an organization should bring. A level of consistency in rules so different districts can race together.
Not as you put it "Chances of them getting together to run a race. Slim."
Might as well call it a shared insurance program, not a National Racing Organization.

[Coug90]

This is absolutely one of the most interesting threads I've come across in a very long time. It's always fun to see what folks are building and talking about in 1:10 scale. I don't have much patience when it comes to politics, but I love racing 1:10 scale. I've done it exclusively for over 25 years now and I still love it. Out here in WA, where scale racing started, it's so much about the history of the real unlimiteds. I love the idea of more racers getting into 1:10 scale in other parts of the country and world. IMO, they are just about a perfect fit in size and affordability. I can tell you that turning left was as important to me as the fact that the FE boats don't have to be toss started while running. I grew up having seen real hydroplanes run and I was hooked when I saw a 36" hydro get on plane from a standstill. Once I got on the water with my first boat and got enough confidence and skill to go deck to deck with other scale boat and sliding through corners on the small skid fin, I couldn't imagine doing it any other way. It's not surprising to me that people who have experienced only turning right in other classes would tend to want to continue that when faced with something new. Yes, I will always want to see scale hydroplanes turning left. Yes, I always wondered why 1:8th scale racers haven't started turning left now that they are not so limited in prop selection. IMO scale racing takes a commitment to something other than the people that race. It's a commitment to the history of the real boats. That's hard to do when you're just starting out and it may not be popular. Is turning left a deal-breaker for some, maybe. Maybe you build a few boats first, try turning left in a few experimental or exhibitions. Maybe it won't be as big of a deal as anticipated. I know we have a different connection to history and maybe some have never seen event a video of a real unlimited race from the 50's or 60's but why not try it if it's easy to change over if you don't like it? At least then you know that you have a chance that there could be some crossover with other hobbyists if the majority are turning left in 1:10 scale. It doesn't sound like you'd be risking much by starting out that way and seeing how it goes before locking in on making it a formal class and solidifying a rules package. Anyway, it's nice to see 1:10 scale being talked about. I've never dealt with IMPBA, so I won't speak to it's bad relationship history with NAMBA. Let's see some more boats! Let me know if there is anything I can do to help with a build. I'm working on some parts for the 83 Renault and a 92 Coors dry build right now for some guys on this thread.

[don ferrette]

I was wondering when Captain Butthurt was gonna show and turn this into another anti IMPBA rant....

Apparently Davey boy's comprehension skills are severely lacking when it has been repeatedly stated that ultimately IF this gets going on a national level we will do what the MAJORITY of actual racers want. For now since right turn 10th scales already exist in my district (which I did not know about until this past weekend) we will play that way in my district.

Hmm..... Nah that's not it at all after this crap-

3.) No, IMPBA shouldn’t put a class in the book that 5-6 guys have a boat for. But a class that is the most popular in all of FE should be considered for the rule book. I can’t say the classes or the moderators here will delete the post. But I’m not talking about 10th Scale.
4.) I do state that the BODs turn down classes even though the majority of members want them. And that’s why it’s no use making proposals because the BODs have made it clear privately and publically that there is a VERY popular class in FE that they just will not consider to be allowed in the rule books. Again… not talking about 10th Scale.

Nope. Captain Butthurt is using my 1/10th scale discussion thread as a soapbox so he can wizz and moan about P limited and have his little temper tantrum about the evils of the IMPBA. Again.

Congratulations David you lived up to my expectations and are the very reason this was in the first post when I started this thread-

I'd like some POSITIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE input from IMPBA folks who might want to try this out and NAMBA racers who already run it and what they like about it. Ideas and thoughts are welcome BUT if there are any "pissin' and moanin" posts I'll ask mods to remove them immediately.

So unless you can contribute something SPECIFICALLY about this class take that crybaby crap somewhere else and stay off this thread

[Diegoboy]

Reminder:


David, this about sums it up.

"ive brought this up to individuals within IMPBA and the previous FE National host club, but no one wants to hear it. "

If no one wants to hear it, consider dropping it and joining what's being done. I'm so done with this subject. I'm openly telling any mod to remove any thread that deal with spec class rules. Enough. We look like a bunch of childish fools.

[T.S.Davis]

Do we need to put a class in the rule book every time 5-6 guys build the same boat that's not a class.... probably not.

DING DING DING Guilty Matt! Looking right in the mirror. I'm guilty. This is where we (FE) has screwed up the works. I can tell you how it happened though.

In the early years of FE the only way you could get enough racers of any particular class to make a heat of anything was by gathering guys from multiple clubs and in some cases multiple districts. NAMBA had a nats every year and the belief then was that it had to be in the rule book or we were uninsured. Nonsense of course but that was the directive. So every time the tech changed or something new came along that put a handful of boats on the water in a district it got proposed. There was never enough demand for 1/8 scale for instance IMPBA had approximately 5 boats nation wide when the rule was added. In fairness, there could have been some I didn't know about. If I'm off by 200% that makes 15. The FE thinking then was "make the rule and they will come". Doesn't work that way as you mentioned.

Now that every form of every boat we ever thought of is in the book we will have them forever. Nothing ever comes back out of either book. ECO is still in the NAMBA book. Couldn't field a heat at the largest FE event ever. N stock hydro is still in the IMPBA rule book. For what? There are maybe 2 guys that run it at a time trial once per year. Worthy of inclusion? There are plenty of unattended classes like this in both books. Just clutter for anyone looking to get into racing. I'm as guilty as anyone for this being so. Ignorance was bliss.

FE is a super small specialized segment or racing spread over too many classes. Net result being that it's hard to form heats. This is how so many FE guys end up running so many classes. Trying to make heats. Why be good at 3 or 4 classes when you can suck at a 11 of them? haha

With Don's group, I'm simply asking (more like hoping, still aint mad at ya Don) that if they're going to start fiddling with scales that they try to follow along with other guys from our tiny little itty bitty segment of the hobby. The format exists. Guys are digging it. It's actually our most attended class up here now. Go figure. Some of the ERCU club races go 50 boats. Why try to forge a new path? Two different versions of the same thing? Let's say there is interest worthy of being added to major events in the future. If some venue wants to attract some 10th scale guys in some distant future they need to pick which format to run. ugh. The guys that already built boats to turn this way or that way will have to make a decision........do they toss their boats and start over or just not race at venue x,y,z? The whole point is for us morons to get together at the pond and have a few laughs.

[T.S.Davis]

Hmmm, figure 8s... now THAT would be a hoot, like the old demolition derby days. :roflol::roflol::roflol:

We've been talking about this for years. We should make it happen at an event in the future. We need to stop goofing and do it. I think it would be a riot. Just some turds from our fleets that we don't care about anymore. Like a Viking funeral or something. HA! Last boat running is gutted, lit on fire, and pushed out to die.

[dethow]

Don,
I was responding to direct questions asked by Matt when I had to say "But I’m not talking about 10th Scale."

My first post was completely in regards to 10th scale and the potentials of it being an unlimited hydro class in IMPBA.

I'm not the only one who sees what's going to happen here. If your district runs right and others run left, the IMPBA BODs will NOT give its seal of approval for a rules proposal and thus will never make it in the rule book. So like some other classes... host clubs will dictate the rules and some racers who are in clubs that go the other way will be unable to enter their boats in the National Event. Year to year there will be different rules and no consistency. And that's my positive and constructive input. Like Terry, I don't want to see a class like this run different ways and thus guys from across the country can't race together and there will only be cross over from NAMBA racers when an event is being hosted by a club who runs left turning.

The fact that there is a long history of 10th scale being run left and there are a bunch of boats in district 2 being run left says that it may be the smarter avenue NOT to accommodate the minority (1 or 2 boats) at this point and start running right in a particular district.

And I do expect the administrator do do something about your abusive name calling.

[don ferrette]

Abusive name calling?? LMAO!!! Here's a better idea- since you can't offer anything productive on this topic why don't you just go to your safe space and stay off my thread.

[Doug Smock]

Please keep it on the surface fellas. David it seems that your input isn't wanted in this thread. Please find something else to do with your time. Thank you sir.:tiphat:

[raptor347]

Having driven lots of boats that turn right and quite a few that turn left, here's my input for what it's worth.

Actually driving the boats is easy, it takes a few laps to get the accustomed to the direction, after that it just driving a boat. These boats are fun to drive and they look great on the water without breaking the bank.

The hardcore scale guys love the left turning thing, it scratches that itch. I don't know that it's worth changing the direction for an established class with pretty good equipment support.

The only time there is any issue with the lefties is in open water, they need their own open water sessions. It's not a big deal, the organizer just needs to plan for it.

Just my .02

[Doug Smock]

The only time there is any issue with the lefties is in open water, they need their own open water sessions. It's not a big deal, the organizer just needs to plan for it.

Just my .02

Yep. That's what we do at the Spring Nats. "Guys we'll close the pond and let the 10ths run at --:00, be ready". I don't recall them ever asking for more than one shot at it. Guys that have never seen them run stop what they're doing to watch. I know I did...

[dethow]

Abusive name calling?? LMAO!!! Here's a better idea- since you can't offer anything productive on this topic why don't you just go to your safe space and stay off my thread.

Don,
You really make me laugh. :roflol:
Do you not understand that by you demanding that anyone with an opposing voice take it elsewhere you ARE the one whom is demanding this thread be YOUR safe space.

Go ahead Don... go and encourage folks in your district to build right running boats because 1 or 2 already exist. Then you'll have maybe 6 to 8 right running boats while the rest of both organizations are running left. Then if the BOD ever decides to put 10th Scale in the books they will go with the MAJORITY and run left. Mean while your right runners will run alone and not be allowed at National Events.

That is unless its really your goal to expect everyone else to change because your district as a couple boats currently running right. Because if that's not your ultimate goal then it'd just seem to make sense for you to advice your district to conform and build to what's already out there in much larger numbers. Otherwise you are just setting them up to build boats which may not be able to run outside your district. Besides the fact that they will be worth less to sell if they ever want to as people will want the left turning boats.

Just doesn't make much sense... but that's right, I'm the bad guy. :blah:

And Doug... I've done nothing wrong. Why don't you spend your time talking to the single member whom is attempting to bully another member out of a thread with name calling. Effectively I'd said nothing different then multiple others in this thread regarding Don's thoughts on running right turning 10th Scales. There's multiple people who disagree and it appears that he stands alone on this issue.

[dethow]

And Mitch... thought you might appreciate these.

[don ferrette]

Davey boy you really don't get it do you? Your opinions mean nothing because you are nothing more than a shxt stirrer pounding on his keyboard. I have no respect for someone who does not race and spends his time causing problems as you do both here and elsewhere (yeah I know about all the crap you stirred up with the IMPBA officials) . You used this thread to once again bash the IMPBA just like I knew you would when I made the first post. While the guys in my district are wanting to "go right" I am encouraging them to build as I am with a turn fin backer on both sponsons so IF this class catches on nationally and the majority want to go left it's an easy switch with a turn fin, cable and prop change. If it doesn't then we will continue to have fun locally, either way we have more boats on the water. Nobody who has been involved in this thread has been asked to step away because of differing opinions, only you are not welcome because you are nothing more than a whiny little crybaby who still hasn't gotten over the whole P limited thing and proved it with posts you made here. So little man take your wadded up panties elsewhere so we can get back to talking about the pros and cons of this class.

[Fluid]

David, you’ve already been warned by another moderator to stay off this thread. Like it or not, this is not your forum, it’s Steven’s. Disruptive behavior - by anyone on the forum - isn’t tolerated well. Consider this another warning.....


.

[dethow]

While the guys in my district are wanting to "go right" I am encouraging them to build as I am with a turn fin backer on both sponsons so IF this class catches on nationally and the majority want to go left it's an easy switch with a turn fin, cable and prop change.

Well at least you're giving some good advice there. :thumbup1:
Probably not a bad idea for any scale boat, either 8th or 10th scales.

I with that I'll :zip-up: I've said my peace on the matter.
Just hope Matt wants to and can clean up the mess that is FE in IMPBA.

[Doug Smock]

David, you’ve already been warned by another moderator to stay off this thread. Like it or not, this is not your forum, it’s Steven’s. Disruptive behavior - by anyone on the forum - isn’t tolerated well. Consider this another warning.....


.




I with that I'll :zip-up: I've said my peace on the matter.


We'll take you at your word....

Thank you sir and have a great evening.:beerchug:

[Coug90]

That there is the essence of scale racing!! That is too cool. 1:10 scale and full scale replicas together. I talked with the guys that did the replica boat when I was building mine. I even took some hints from their decking of the boat when I laid down my mahogany decks. They were helpful in trying to match the color of the original boat as best we could. Who would have thought my old Gale V would make it out to be with theirs. I'm gonna save those pics if you don't mind. I might even post one on my web site if that's ok too. Thanks for making my day. I'm just a scale hydro geek at heart

[Coug90]

Having driven lots of boats that turn right and quite a few that turn left, here's my input for what it's worth.

Actually driving the boats is easy, it takes a few laps to get the accustomed to the direction, after that it just driving a boat. These boats are fun to drive and they look great on the water without breaking the bank.

The hardcore scale guys love the left turning thing, it scratches that itch. I don't know that it's worth changing the direction for an established class with pretty good equipment support.

The only time there is any issue with the lefties is in open water, they need their own open water sessions. It's not a big deal, the organizer just needs to plan for it.

Just my .02

I think the Snowman is right there. A little wheel time turning the other way and it doesn't really make a big difference. Driving is driving. It seems worth it if it doesn't eliminate the possibility of crossover. It would be a shame not to even try it when you're talking about decisions being made for the very beginnings of 1:10 scale racing in your area. It's a different experience, but I think it would be well worth it in the long run if you don't make it that much harder to easily allow sharing of the class. I could see it a bigger issue if you'd already established the class years ago and there were many people invested in it. We have a few different clubs out west that run this class. A couple run it exclusively. Sure, we have small differences between club motor specs and variances in little rule things here and there, but even the clubs who run several other classes that turn right, decided that they would turn left when they adopted 1:10 scale as a class. It comes down to the priorities of the racers in your area. If they are not at all interested in ever racing outside of your area, then I suppose it doesn't matter, but if they knew that others have done it and that challenges brought up have been overcome easily by others, would they make the same decision. You have to weigh the pros and cons, but I hope you share with them what you've learned from others who have been through this already and can share what they've learned. It's not surprising that people would shy away from something that seems new and scary. It's why we tend to do things the way we've always done them and turn a blind (or at least inexperienced) eye to things. It's the easier path in the short term. You have to ask yourselves where you want this class to be able to do for your members over the next ten years, not ten months and plan ahead. It would be hard to grow the class outside of your area, if that's one of your members' long term ambitions, if you don't turn the same way that most everyone else does in that class. It's probably the same reason that die hard 1:8 scale racers don't turn left when they know that the only thing keeping them from doing so now is that it would go against what is already established and has been since the 70's. IMO, they won't be really scale until they turn left, but I can understand why they don't. I could only imagine how unpopular and isolated the group that drives a proposal to change 1:8 scale to left hand turning would be. I'm sure it's been talked about, but I don't see a scenario where that happens. Heck, even when they started running FE 1:8 scales, they decided to turn right! Maybe when the electrics in that class run separately, someone will decide to mandate that they turn left. I'm not sure the nitro guys will ever follow suit. I got off track there a bit, but hopefully you see what I'm saying and that it gives some perspective to your decision making process.

[dethow]

Who would have thought my old Gale V would make it out to be with theirs. I'm gonna save those pics if you don't mind. I might even post one on my web site if that's ok too. Thanks for making my day. I'm just a scale hydro geek at heart

That's 100% fine with me Mitch.
I have been collecting a lot of old memorabilia with my pride and joy being an original Seattle newspaper from when she won the 1955 Gold Cup. My plan is to put together a display area which will tell the history of the boat along with fun memorabilia (such as photos, pins and match books) and an area to mount/hang the 1:10 Gale V. I'll have the ability to remove her from the display for racing. It was so awesome to go meet Bill and talk about the boats. Thanks you for passing this wonderful boat along to me. You can trust that I also get and appreciate the essence of scale racing and I love the Detroit history of this boat. Glad that helped make your day. Have a good one, Mitch.

[rat350r]

I have been watching this thread sense I got home from the D-12 race this past weekend. I met Mr. Ferrette this past Friday at the race in Centerville Va. He was displaying his 1/10 scale hydro that he was building and that really caught my attention. It caught my attention so much that on Saturday I brought out my 1/10 scale Miss Thriftway that I built back in 2016. This boat and its sister boat the Miss Wahoo were the first boats I have built sense the late 70s.

I soon discovered after finishing these two boats that the 1/10 scale boats were very popular on the west coast and not as popular on the east coast, at least not in IMPBA D-12. I ended up racing my Miss Wahoo boat in Q Sport Hydro in 2017 because it was too long to run in P-hydro. Sense then I have built three LSG boats and have been racing them along with the Q Sport Hydro the past couple of years here in D-12.

I was very glad to hear that Mr. Ferrette is exploring the potential of 1/10 scale FE here in D-12. Sense this past weekend reading all the posts and reading the NAMBA 1/10 scale FE rules for both vintage and modern hydroplane, I see where both sides of the discussion have valid positions. When I was asked if I preferred to run 1/10 scale FE turning left or right I said I prefer to turn right. This is because this is how I have always run boats. Now after the discussion here I am defiantly open to giving both directions a try.

I started a modern 1/10 scale kit from ML boat works to build the 96 Pico American Dream boat. I am about half way through the build and do not have the deck covered. My intention is to do as Mr. Ferrette putting reinforcement in both sponsons to allow for turn fins for left and right turns. I also am going to setup my Miss Thriftway boat with a vintage turn fin on the left sponson for left turns.

I propose that between the two of us and maybe one or two others in D-12 we may have enough interest to do some exhibition heats either at test and tunes or at some of the D-12 races next year turning left and right. It is quite possable that the left turn could catch on, only trying it and seeing what driver opinion is will tell.

I know one thing, the fact that there is interest in 1/10 scale FE here in D-12 has reignited my interest in what I also think is one of the neatest looking boats on the water in real life and RC.

[T.S.Davis]

I have to admit, turning left sounded stupid to me when these guys started it way back when. It's just different. Makes it even more of an eye catcher. People stop what they're doing to watch them go. I hate having to CD those heats because I lose my head and forget what I'm doing.

For us, limiting the turn fin keeps the hulls kinda sorta running like their full sized counterparts. My opinion. All the quirks of the full sized boats exist in the scale renditions. You can make up for some sins with a curved fin. It's rare for a boat to be gobs faster than anyone else too. You can't really engineer yourself into a ton of extra speed. Some sure but power is limited, the hulls design is the hulls design, and your fin can't hold the turn any better than anybody else. There are still tweaks but not major stuff like with a sport where somebody finds a bunch of speed and the lapping ensues.

We're racing of course....they're race boats..........but....there's something more to it. It's that realism I think. Not sure I can express what I'm getting at. Something about that class is cool. It's not uncommon to see two or three boats coming up the front straight together. You guys are gonna dig it no matter which way you turn.

[rat350r]

Well I just ordered some reverse props and reverse flex shafts and a vintage turn fin from OSE. Looks like I am going to give turning left a try. I may have things set up on my Miss Thriftway for the open water on 09/14 at Fort Richie Md.

[ray schrauwen]

Does Mike at ML cut a atlas VL kit for 1/10th scale? I prefer modern but I also prefer less work building.

I'll check his site. It's most likely one of the prettiest non-modern hydros to me.

If I dive into this, I'll need some mentoring.... ....Terry?
\
Here it is.. $100,not bad! http://woodrcboatkits.com/index.php/scale-kits/scale-hydroplane-kits/1-10-scale/1-10th-scale-newton-123-mhr-7701.html

Maybe if I can talk to my import buddy... ...supposedly the Canadian government is going to lift the duties and taxes on consumer purchases however hell could freeze over first, lol...

[don ferrette]

Does Mike at ML cut a atlas VL kit for 1/10th scale? I prefer modern but I also prefer less work building.

I'll check his site. It's most likely one of the prettiest non-modern hydros to me.

If I dive into this, I'll need some mentoring.... ....Terry?
\
Here it is.. $100,not bad! http://woodrcboatkits.com/index.php/scale-kits/scale-hydroplane-kits/1-10-scale/1-10th-scale-newton-123-mhr-7701.html

Maybe if I can talk to my import buddy... ...supposedly the Canadian government is going to lift the duties and taxes on consumer purchases however hell could freeze over first, lol...Ray gotta tell ya Mike's kits rock, hardest thing about them is waiting for glue to dry so you can keep going. I'll tell you the same thing I'm recommending to folks in and around my area, since this is just getting going and we haven't locked down left or right turning put a turn fin backer on both sides. :cool:

[ray schrauwen]

Ray gotta tell ya Mike's kits rock, hardest thing about them is waiting for glue to dry so you can keep going. I'll tell you the same thing I'm recommending to folks in and around my area, since this is just getting going and we haven't locked down left or right turning put a turn fin backer on both sides. :cool:

Thanks Don.

I misunderstood the scale section at ML. the kits are just frames right? He has the option to add skins and timbers.

Just lost interest in P Sport and Spec Sport. I'll have to sell a few boats to get this project going. Actually, since I've been out of racing, these classes have gotten so fast that I think I'd have a hard time coming close to keeping up. Scale is more gentleman like and the older I get, the more I like that sort of thing.

Still need to rig up the GP265 and the RSX310 rigger I built... Too many Irons... I'll get them done for 2019 season.

[HOTWATER]

This is absolutely one of the most interesting threads I've come across in a very long time. It's always fun to see what folks are building and talking about in 1:10 scale. I don't have much patience when it comes to politics, but I love racing 1:10 scale. I've done it exclusively for over 25 years now and I still love it. Out here in WA, where scale racing started, it's so much about the history of the real unlimiteds. I love the idea of more racers getting into 1:10 scale in other parts of the country and world. IMO, they are just about a perfect fit in size and affordability. I can tell you that turning left was as important to me as the fact that the FE boats don't have to be toss started while running. I grew up having seen real hydroplanes run and I was hooked when I saw a 36" hydro get on plane from a standstill. Once I got on the water with my first boat and got enough confidence and skill to go deck to deck with other scale boat and sliding through corners on the small skid fin, I couldn't imagine doing it any other way. It's not surprising to me that people who have experienced only turning right in other classes would tend to want to continue that when faced with something new. Yes, I will always want to see scale hydroplanes turning left. Yes, I always wondered why 1:8th scale racers haven't started turning left now that they are not so limited in prop selection. IMO scale racing takes a commitment to something other than the people that race. It's a commitment to the history of the real boats. That's hard to do when you're just starting out and it may not be popular. Is turning left a deal-breaker for some, maybe. Maybe you build a few boats first, try turning left in a few experimental or exhibitions. Maybe it won't be as big of a deal as anticipated. I know we have a different connection to history and maybe some have never seen event a video of a real unlimited race from the 50's or 60's but why not try it if it's easy to change over if you don't like it? At least then you know that you have a chance that there could be some crossover with other hobbyists if the majority are turning left in 1:10 scale. It doesn't sound like you'd be risking much by starting out that way and seeing how it goes before locking in on making it a formal class and solidifying a rules package. Anyway, it's nice to see 1:10 scale being talked about. I've never dealt with IMPBA, so I won't speak to it's bad relationship history with NAMBA. Let's see some more boats! Let me know if there is anything I can do to help with a build. I'm working on some parts for the 83 Renault and a 92 Coors dry build right now for some guys on this thread.

Mitch, got the scale parts today for the 83 Renault build...they look great! Nice job on the plug...cowl looks great!!! Thanks for spending some time on that!! Allison engine parts are really nice as well!!

Thank you!
-Kent

[rat350r]

Looking for some suggestions regarding motor and prop choices for 1/10 scale. I have tried an Aquacraft 36-56 1800Kv motor with a CNC 3814-R prop in my Miss Thriftway and it didn't go well. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Bruce Price
hope to be 1/10 scale boat racer.


https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=161130&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1535328284

[T.S.Davis]

Thats not enough prop even for the 1800.

Try the 1500kv proboat motor and a CNC 4714R. Once you get the boat freed up you can likely prop up from there.

[rat350r]

I have been working on my 1/10 scale modern. I am attempting to build the 1997 Pico American Dream boat. This is my first attempt at making my own fiberglass cowlings. I am also initially setting the boat up to turn left but as Don is doing I am putting an aluminum plate on the right sponson just in case.

[rat350r]

Here are a coupe more shots of the running gear.

[rat350r]

Here are a coupe more shots of the running gear.