2019 IMPBA FE Nats Atl.Ga. feeler thread

[Doug Smock]

"FEELER THREAD" Just asking if there is any SERIOUS interest in this venue?

Because of site restrictions this would have to be a open water at noon until dusk Friday, two days of hard core, if you're back to back, bring both boats to the pits, when the retrieve boat hits the dock, "You're on the clock" , no waiting for component replacement, Rock and roll, turn your hat around Nationals. Anyone that has raced in Atlanta knows how we roll. (Yes we're reasonable, but you get the point):wink:

I'll discuss the possibility with the District at our annual meeting in Nov. if there is enough (again serious) interest.

If not, we get it, the pace isn't for everyone. :wink:

Thanks,

[Ken Haines]

"FEELER THREAD" Just asking if there is any SERIOUS interest in this venue?

Because of site restrictions this would have to be a open water at noon until dusk Friday, two days of hard core, if you're back to back, bring both boats to the pits, when the retrieve boat hits the dock, "You're on the clock" , no waiting for component replacement, Rock and roll, turn your hat around Nationals. Anyone that has raced in Atlanta knows how we roll. (Yes we're reasonable, but you get the point):wink:

I'll discuss the possibility with the District at our annual meeting in Nov. if there is enough (again serious) interest.

If not, we get it, the pace isn't for everyone. :wink:

Thanks,

Fede and I am definitely interested

[Chilli]

:wink:

[don ferrette]

Because of site restrictions this would have to be a open water at noon until dusk Friday

Hey Doug, I thought the Friday restrictions were because of the noise of the IC boats? FE would be a lot quieter.......... :lol:

[Doug Smock]

Hey Doug, I thought the Friday restrictions were because of the noise of the IC boats? FE would be a lot quieter.......... :lol:

Hey Don, No sir. All of our races open water starts at noon for FE. IC after 5. The pond owner wouldn't budge because of the PITA across the pond. Seems they are everywhere these days.��

[TRUCKPULL]

What Month or date are you thinking of??

Larry

[Doug Smock]

Ultimately the Club Presidents would make that decision. Possibly May or June although we wouldn't want to stomp on the Michigan Cup.

Thoughts?

[longballlumber]

I think it would be great to see this happen. Let me know how I can help!

[don ferrette]

Hey Don, No sir. All of our races open water starts at noon for FE. IC after 5. The pond owner wouldn't budge because of the PITA across the pond. Seems they are everywhere these days.��

Ahhh, got it. If this comes to be I will seriously consider it (mid May would be nice), lookin' at doing up a new FE scale over the winter. :cool:

[Ken Haines]

Ultimately the Club Presidents would make that decision. Possibly May or June although we wouldn't want to stomp on the Michigan Cup.

Thoughts?

Late April I would assume is the Spring Nat's,
Late June would also assume is the Michigan Cup.
Late May would be the holiday weekend that could allow
an extra day, if not possible to allow an extra race day then
at least an extra travel day. Otherwise wondering if
the summer months are out of bounds or would they
be a good option too ?

[T.S.Davis]

Racing? Of course I'm interested.

[Ty Davis]

Ultimately the Club Presidents would make that decision. Possibly May or June although we wouldn't want to stomp on the Michigan Cup.

Thoughts?

May is the better date. June is the MI, Cup.

[Doug Smock]

I'm openly telling any mod to remove any thread that deal with spec class rules.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No P Limited, Spec, this, that, or the other, on this thread or your post will be GONE as soon as we see it. Time to drive on.

Our races are around the same dates every year, see below. I'll get the proposed dates for 2019 shortly..

May might work, and I'll discuss it with the District if that's what you want.


SOWEGA Grand Prix, Feb 24th & 25th.
AMB Spring Nationals, April 22nd & 23rd.
Southern Tunnel Championship, May 18th – 20th. (SOWEGA)
CMB Grand Prix, June 9th & 10th.
AMB Grand Prix, July 21st & 22nd.
GP Race Sept........................
CMB Fall Nationals October 12th, 13th, & 14th.
SOWEGA Grand Prix November 3rd & 4th.

[Doug Smock]

I think it would be great to see this happen. Let me know how I can help!

Thanks Mike!

[T.S.Davis]

Well Doug you can count on MMEU to support the event regardless of the date.

In fact, Tyler and I would be willing to come down early to provide straight up point and shoot labor if that would help. Tom's a horse too but I don't want volunteer his services too. Haha

All that said, don't you guys have crazy hot weather June to September?

[Ty Davis]

Late April I would assume is the Spring Nat's,
Late June would also assume is the Michigan Cup.
Late May would be the holiday weekend that could allow
an extra day, if not possible to allow an extra race day then
at least an extra travel day. Otherwise wondering if
the summer months are out of bounds or would they
be a good option too ?

I like the idea of Memorial day weekend. That gives us an extra day of racing.

[rightturnonly]

I am in..might even see if I can drag the old man down for it..

[Doug Smock]

Thanks Terry, Yes June - Sept can be brutal.

[Todd Fleury]

I'm in

[HTVboats]

I like the Memorial weekend option. Would that add Monday as an additional race day? Or just a bonus travel day?
Mic

[Doug Smock]

I like the Memorial weekend option. Would that add Monday as an additional race day? Or just a bonus travel day?
Mic

It WOULD be nice to have Monday if weather puts us behind. Hopefully our issue across the pond is closed that day.:olleyes: We would have to find out.

Glad you posted Mic. Do you think the Tunnel guys that race FE would make both the SE Tunnel Champs and FE Nats. the same month? Gabe said he'd gladly CD the race but would want to run a couple of classes. I imagine P limited and Q O/B Tunnel. Can we field FE Tunnel classes at both races? You have a much better handle on that than we do..

[T.S.Davis]

My wife urged us to consider the possibility that guys that are race traveling morons might struggle to sell their families the notion that they'll not only going to yet another race but it it will be on a holiday weekend. Not every wife is as patient as mine.

[T.S.Davis]

It would be entertaining to me to see some heats of Q tunnel. I don't think I've ever seen one. Let alone a heat of them. That would be cool.

Hey Doug, back in 2005 when we did that big stupid race we ran a pole with every possible class. N1, P, Q, S, everything. Stuff we invented. 1/8 scale. 1/16th scale with brushed motors. LSH, LSO, even the old crackerbox class on 6 Nimh. Did it way in advance with an on-line deal. The pole question was basically "what would get you here to the race folks?" We urged guys not to just pipe dream but to actually think about getting here. What would inspire ya to race and not just blab on line about it. By the time we opened registration we knew exactly what would get guys here. We ended up with 522 entries. It was epic. More fun than I can possibly describe. Not saying you have to do this but it might give you a gauge for direction. Heck we might find nobody cares. haha

Getting people to participate is the key. It's the guys that show up to race that define a national champion. The respect you have for the guy you beat is what makes being a champion of any value. The respect the guy that beats you has for you makes his win of value to him. Sounds pretty corny (gosh darn it) but that's how I try to think about it.

[madmikepags]

I a National IDIOT!!! Ask anyone!! hey I'm in but why not just make the spring Nats the NATS!!!

[HTVboats]

Doug,
For myself having two premier events close together might be an issue having to drive 400-600 miles each. There are a lot more FE tunnels north of the Fla-Ga line so I think you will draw well in Spec and possibly Q.
Another issue is how much open water do you need for FE boats. With Nitro traveling to different elevations having some needle time is an issue. With my FE boats I pretty much know they will perform straight out of the trailer. Rather see that Friday afternoon time for heats and have a little more relaxed Sat & Sun. Running back to back with FE is not a problem. Setting up and safely re charging between heats is my issue.
Mic

[don ferrette]

THANK YOU Doug for bringing this thread back. Mid to late May is very appealing to me as well and Memorial weekend isn't a big deal but I do understand what some of the guys are saying about the holiday weekend and family. :smile:

[T.S.Davis]

Hey I traveled to another country to race on my wife's birthday. Just say'n, not all wives would be cool with any of this.

I would be game for April if that's what it takes. The only issue I see with it is that anyone north of say Nashville might not be bringing their A game. We only have about a month of soft water before hand. No heats under our belt. It shows even when we come down for the spring nats.

On the open water thing. You could just have open water on Thursday evening. 5 to maybe 9? 4 hours is enough. If you didn't figure the boats out in a year prior, 10 hours of open water isn't the time to do it IMO. Then race Friday, Saturday, Sunday. They've already conceded to FE on Friday. PA might be an issue. We could do it the old fashioned way. Un-amplified. Thinking out loud.

[Doug Smock]

I'm in but why not just make the spring Nats the NATS!!!

I thought of that but may get beat up for mentioning it. :hide:
I'll tell them you suggested it. They're scared of you!:laugh:

[topfuel443]

Im ready! Got my Q Tunnel and P-*&^% tunnel too. Anybody up for 110 heats in one day? Im your guy.... lets do this.

~ James Clegg

[Doug Smock]

Anybody up for 110 heats in one day? Im your guy.... lets do this.

~ James Clegg. No doubt about that! Thanks for stepping up....AGAIN!

[T.S.Davis]

Im ready! Got my Q Tunnel and P-*&^% tunnel too. Anybody up for 110 heats in one day? Im your guy.... lets do this.

~ James Clegg

We can keep up with that but I gotta be honest....I hated it. Went to the hotel baked. I didn't even care if we raced on day two.

[Doug Smock]

It ain't for everyone. But, we can limit entries and heat numbers and fix that. How much or little do guys want to race? (work)

[topfuel443]

I was worn out myself, and all i did was talk on the mic all day! 75 heats a day is perfect....

[T.S.Davis]

75 FE heats will likely kill guys. Doug and I talked about this a little bit. I think he asked "think we could pull this off in 2 days?". The AMB could absolutely do it but FE at large probably couldn't. You guys pulled off 110 and it never really seemed like we were going that fast. Both the crew and the racers seemed to handle it flawlessly. The fatigue really only hit me personally later on.

This is where an all FE race gets weird though. With a mixed race if you race say 5 classes you get a heat of electric, then a heat of fuel, then back to FE. So there is about a 5 minute window before you have to get back to the water. It's freakn' perfect in truth. At an all FE race you could run 5 classes in a row. Even if you aren't in 5 consecutive classes the guy standing next to you is probably in the classes that you aren't and needs a pit. It's like being back to back to back for every heat. That time you were going to use to unload the batteries and get them on charge vanishes. Maybe grease a shaft. Or holy crap if you break something. You're racing or up on the stand for every heat. Things get missed easy. Next round comes and you're way behind or have to scratch.

[topfuel443]

Good points Terry, i've never actually been to an FE only race, but I can see understand your concerns. I was just saying, in terms of hours in the day based on time it takes to actually run heats, 75 is more than enough for a day, not taking into account the challenges of an all electric race. Im sure we could work it out to where it was manageable.

I have been to a bunch of all outboard/tunnel hull races, and there are some of the similar challenges (pit help, back to back to back), but we make it happen.

How many realistic entries would a race like this bring in?

[Doug Smock]

75 FE heats will likely kill guys. Doug and I talked about this a little bit. I think he asked "think we could pull this off in 2 days?". The AMB could absolutely do it but FE at large probably couldn't.

Yep, remember the conversation well. That's why the first post reads like it does. I'm all but certain a three day race is a no go. We hate to have any conversation with the site owner, we are a fly at their picnic, less is more kind of thing.
We can turn down the PA, stick a sock in the horn for the clock, but honestly I don't think the noise is his problem. His employees all but line the bank on the far side of the pond. The windows are full of faces.:glare:

I wonder if any crop dusters fly from the NE to Sycamore Ga.??:laugh:

[T.S.Davis]

Who knows. Kinda why Doug was asking I think. Who would come for real? If he approaches his gang with the idea and then we get 75 entries that would suck.

I know some of the guys that say they'll come actually will. You can count the usual suspects up but yer never sure with guys you haven't already traveled with. The reugular race junkies will be good for 75 to 100 I would think. Some times the trip sounds great and then wives get wind of it. hahaha Then of those that will drive or fly......how many boats are they willing to run. My kid was just telling me "Dad, I think 5 classes is plenty". He's of course utterly and completely full of crap. It will be 13 before these guys have can even confirm they want to do it.

In my tiny brain, I'm thinking the location would work to their advantage. It's kind of in the middle. PAGS might be the worst drive and it's still not insane. We could start working on the OSE boys (nudge nudge). Maybe the guys from Indiana. Owen is going to be better than the old man.

We gotta find a way to express how much stupid fun these things are. I'm still afraid the law will find out and descend upon us.

[HTVboats]

I would rather be limited to an entry limit per driver where I would pick the boats I felt were my best rather than just running everything I own. That way the level of competition will be concentrated in heats. FE boaters tend to have a lot of boats. Maybe cause they all run. We bring 12 nitro boats to a race and end up running 6 in the last round.
Again consider a lot of unattended charging of batteries. Not everyone has 3 sets of cells per boat. I must be getting old worrying about safety.
Mic

[longballlumber]

We gotta figure out a way to spread the love sorta speak. If we keep fishing in the same pond we are keep catching the same fish. Logistically speaking the ATL pond is SUPER convenient with the airport VERY close. We actually my be able to attract some guys from Texas, Arizona, Washington, and California. The MI pond in Leonard isn't as convenient on that front.

With regards to number of heats and number of days. If the host club can only manage a 2 day event then the racers are responsible for signing up the appropriate number of classes they can manage for a 2 day event. You will be hard pressed to convince me those guys that enter a bazillion classes couldn't stand leaving 2 or 3 boats at home! The host club cannot be held responsible for racers that enter more classes than they can handle; all the while knowing the event requires a reasonable pace to finish in their available time frame.

flame suite on! :flashfire:

[longballlumber]

More thinking out loud....

With the ATL site specifically there are some challenges with racing during the week due to the local business. It looks like running FE boats starting at noon on Friday's is acceptable... Why can't we start heat racing at noon on Friday? Open water is a gift, not a requirement. That would be an extra 6-8 hours of heats that can be completed.

[Ty Davis]

More thinking out loud....

With the ATL site specifically there are some challenges with racing during the week due to the local business. It looks like running FE boats starting at noon on Friday's is acceptable... Why can't we start heat racing at noon on Friday? Open water is a gift, not a requirement. That would be an extra 6-8 hours of heats that can be completed.

Open water thursday from 5 to 9?

[T.S.Davis]

No flame suit required Mike. It's so easy to get carried away signing up for everything everything everything. I've done it too. What we "should" be doing is signing up for classes we're actually good at. It's a nats. We had boats at our race that were really fast that guys had no heat laps into.

Spencer park doesnt have open water. Attendance hasn't really suffered.

[don ferrette]

Open water thursday from 5 to 9?

Hmmmmmm................. :cool:

[RaceMechaniX]

I would try to make it particularly if we can run some Q or T classes.

"open" is not allowed at a Nats?

[trigger]

. Maybe the guys from Indiana. Owen is going to be better than the old man.

Well yeah he is........but don't tell him.

We are interested for sure, it's a long way out, we struggle planning tomorrow never mind that far in advance. We have two main issues, time off work and wives. But assuming that the later are not issues, for sure we would come play boats. Its always a good time hanging with you guys.

[madmikepags]

Lets look at #'s of heats, and assume we do the shootout format. lets say there's 7 classes a day, and you pick what would be the 14 most popular classes. You are only really running 3 rounds because the final round will only be 7 heats. You limit the # of entries per class. Obviously spec mono, sport hyd, & offshore are the most popular so you give them 24 entries, but classes like Phydro P cat Q mono Q sport Q hydro you cap at 12, P mono p sport inbetween at 18, and so on. Then there will be classes that you give 12 entries but you will really only get 1 heat. Realistically you will have 17-18 heats per round. Even if it's 20 heats thats 67 heats in a day. Doable or not doable? I have never run a big race so I don't know, but we did run 106 heats in one day at the spring nats one year. Surely us FE guys could do 65 in a day? No?

[T.S.Davis]

No, yer thinking right Mike. We've shuffled that mix 8 ways to Sunday over the years. If they do it we can help them with the shuffle. Getting the right combo of classes on the right days makes it much more doable.

The only hiccup is trying to figure out what will draw based on region. Up here, tunnel has almost no hope of making a heat. Down there it sounds like they could pull multiple flights. So there is a degree of guessing.

65 is super doable. Even for us FE turds........er racers. Hugs.

[longballlumber]

This creates a question for me... Why are the numbers so different? Using Mike's numbers above; 106 for a combine event but we act like 65 for an all FE event is a stretch? That is roughly a 40% difference.

Another question; How many racers are using the same hull for multiple classes? Does that even exist these days?

[dethow]

Another question; How many racers are using the same hull for multiple classes? Does that even exist these days?

I have used the same hull for Mono and Offshore. Just change my batteries for more mAh.

[T.S.Davis]

This creates a question for me... Why are the numbers so different? Using Mike's numbers above; 106 for a combine event but we act like 65 for an all FE event is a stretch?

It's that gap I described. For me at least. That little space in between while the fuel guys run is huge if you run a lot of classes. For the average normal guy, maybe it's actually not an issue. If you run say 4 classes in a day those little gaps might not matter at all.

Used to be that guys could run P mono - P offshore - P limited mono and P offshore with the same boat. You can still do it but the P speeds and water don't really allow you to be competitive that way. My spec mono are not set up like my P mono. You can cross over to offshore though. Just a prop change for most. Sport hydros same thing. You can run P with a specky but you'll get murdered.

Here's a question......is anyone else running FE offshore on the regular? Totally ignorant question. We dig it up here and we've raced it elsewhere but I always felt like we were bringing the class with us when we traveled. The CanAm dropped it this year. It was the only offshore class they had and is a pain in butt for them. Is it popular elsewhere? Those offshore classes are time gobbling pigs. Take longer and always require a ton of retrieve. Don't get me wrong. I love it but if it meant the race could happen in 2 days with no time issues.......

[Doug Smock]

I would try to make it particularly if we can run some Q or T classes.

"open" is not allowed at a Nats?

I'm pretty sure Open Offshore would fly.:wink:
We wouldn't have to run the whole course necessarily. Something we can talk about.

[Ty Davis]

I'm pretty sure Open Offshore would fly.:wink:
We wouldn't have to run the whole course necessarily. Something we can talk about.

Just move the offshore pins closer to the oval. None of the FE guys are going to go wide enough off of bouy 3 to hit those offshore pins.

[topfuel443]

Ill have a beast ready for "Open Tunnel" if there is an option....

[Doug Smock]

Ok guys! We have been banging our heads trying to find a way to offer this race without stepping on any toes including our own. We considered offering it in place of the Spring Nats but just can't. 45 years of history there!

September is the only time we could offer this in 2019 if the BOD approves. The weather is typically cooler by then, but of course you never know. The exact date is still open at this point, we have to poll the club.
If you really want it, we could have open water on Thurs. from noon till dusk. (This would be on me! Sooo, if you say you want it you'd better BE THERE!!:wink:) Racing would start at noon on Fri.

Lamar is an expert on nailing down time & heat counts, he's been doing it for years. The AMB can get the race in if the weather cooperates and the racers are on point. Absolutely no question about that.

Whatdayathink? Should we pursue this? Or is Sept. a deal breaker?

Thanks!!

[Doug Smock]

Just move the offshore pins closer to the oval. None of the FE guys are going to go wide enough off of bouy 3 to hit those offshore pins.

Never say never. lol We'll come up with something if there is interest.:wink:

[T.S.Davis]

Love it Doug. As I mentioned, you can count on at least part of the MMEU morons (what..... it's a term of endearment) to come down and play toy boats for bowling trophies with you guys. It being that late we might even be able to pull off both races. Who knows.

[madmikepags]

I love the idea the only issue is the dwindling daylight in sept? may june july you have sun till 8;30-9pm sept you'tre lookin at 6:30-7 but I think it'll work

[don ferrette]

Man September is tough. If I might ask without meaning any trouble whatsoever, what were the sticking points for mid May?

[Ty Davis]

Man September is tough. If I might ask without meaning any trouble whatsoever, what were the sticking points for mid May?

One of the stick points is that its, Too close to the spring nats.

[madmikepags]

and too close to the Mi Cup also, there are a good bunch of us that go to all 3 of those races, and 3 travel races in 3 months that would wreak HAVOC on my marriage!!! and not enough time to recouperate rebuild and retool and retard!!!!

[Doug Smock]

One of the stick points is that its, Too close to the spring nats.

Yep Michigan Cup, Southeastern Tunnel Championships, and club members with conflicts.


I love the idea the only issue is the dwindling daylight in sept? may june july you have sun till 8;30-9pm sept you'tre lookin at 6:30-7 but I think it'll work

It looks like daylight will only be a problem if ya wanna run 100+ heats/day.:wink: Sunrise about 7:00 am sunset @ 8:30 pm according to what I could find online.:thumbup1:

[don ferrette]

Well the other issue is Huntsville is hosting the 2019 Internats (long format) targeting the second week in September but still working out details.

[don ferrette]

Any further chatter on this recently?

[longballlumber]

Any further chatter on this recently?

It was just recently communicated to me the Atlanta Model Boat Club will not be able to facilitate hosting the a 2019 FE National event.

[don ferrette]

It was just recently communicated to me the Atlanta Model Boat Club will not be able to facilitate hosting the a 2019 FE National event.

Bummer. :sad:

[Doug Smock]

Sorry fellas. Perhaps down the road.

[T.S.Davis]

Any talk of an alternative site?

[longballlumber]

Any talk of an alternative site?

Back to the "numbers" discussion again... Other than AMBC and MMEU who even has the capacity to accept the challenge?

[T.S.Davis]

How the heck does nitro pull it off? By the numbers puts them about as pathetic as we are. haha They raced 226 boats for the 2018 nats. Some of those classes had as little as two boats that actually raced. Sport 40 was the best at 25 entries. Think we were around there for spec sport. The average entry count for the nitro nats was 12 boats per class over 18 classes. Looked it up.

I'd have to get with Tom to see what the real totals were after people entered and then bailed but at one point we had 278 boats registered. I'll bet it's around the same as nitro. Maybe less. 200 or so? Yet there's still a nitro nats. Just bums me out that there might not be one because of "numbers" when other fuel sources are able to get around the numbers.

MMEU just can't do another nats. We're baked. Well....at least I am. I'd be willing to support one but hosting....not so much. I'd rather heckle and be a nuisance to someone else.

[longballlumber]

How the heck does nitro pull it off? By the numbers puts them about as pathetic as we are. haha They raced 226 boats for the 2018 nats. Some of those classes had as little as two boats that actually raced. Sport 40 was the best at 25 entries. Think we were around there for spec sport. The average entry count for the nitro nats was 12 boats per class over 18 classes. Looked it up.

I'd have to get with Tom to see what the real totals were after people entered and then bailed but at one point we had 278 boats registered. I'll bet it's around the same as nitro. Maybe less. 200 or so? Yet there's still a nitro nats. Just bums me out that there might not be one because of "numbers" when other fuel sources are able to get around the numbers.

MMEU just can't do another nats. We're baked. Well....at least I am. I'd be willing to support one but hosting....not so much. I'd rather heckle and be a nuisance to someone else.

Its hard to directly answer you question how they pull it off... More racers that are committed to making an event of that caliber happen; I guess.

Based what I just read in the August Rooster tail:

2018 FE Nats had 35 racers and 240 boats (ultimately both were slightly less from what I recall after the drops). I seem to recall the number of racers ended up below 30. However, I am going off memory from a conversation with Tom. Again I am going off of memory, but 40% of the 2018 FE Nats racers were MMEU Club members of some sort?

2018 Nitro Nats claims 300 boats and they stated that 88 racers showed up to the Banquet. I can only assume that not all boaters went to the banquet. I have a feeler out for the exact number of racers/boats. As a matter of fact it wasn't a specific club that put on the 2018. It was a couple of guys that took on the initial responsibility, they were well organized, asked for help in places they needed it, and had many racers volunteer to fill the voids where necessary.

At the end of the day they may be boats, but it's not the same when comparing Nitro events to FE events. There are more nitro racers, there are more nitro clubs.

Just curious, will MMEU be hosting the MI Cup in 2019? The reason I ask is because of your last statement. Was hosting the 2018 IMPBA FE Nats/MMEU MI Cup significantly different than hosing a normal MI Cup race?

[T.S.Davis]

The 226 number I quoted was from the results on racemaster. I didn't count boats that never made a start. I think yer about right on the number of guys that bailed on us. 30 sounds more real.

FE racing is such an anomaly. If you take the 226 boats that actually raced at the nitro nats and divide by the number of racers you get about 2.5 boats average per racer. We average 6.6 if we went 200 boats and 30 racers. I don't have a feel for why that is. Maybe because that's what it takes to make an event go?

I'd have to think on the Cup vs nats thing. Work load is the same but the stress is higher. Can't explain that either. It certainly was many of the usual suspects.

[longballlumber]

I'd have to think on the Cup vs nats thing. Work load is the same but the stress is higher. Can't explain that either. It certainly was many of the usual suspects.

Again, going off of memory; it seems to me there were more racers at the 2017 MI Cup then the 2018 FE Nats/MI Cup. My point in stating that is the number of racers didn't dramatically go up because it was "The Nats". It actually went down.

IMO there are VERY few FE racers that are dedicated enough to the FE segment to take on the responsibility. How many other FE ONLY clubs are there in the IMPBA AND capable of pulling off a multi-day national race? None that I know of. There are several clubs that have mixed power sources, however the FE guys are still the minority. You will be hard pressed to find a group of IC guys agree to put on a race where that isn't their primary interest.

Just my $.02

[T.S.Davis]

How many other FE ONLY clubs are there in the ...............United States? MMEU may well be the only one outside of ERCU. I'm ignorant on that one too Mike. I'd love to know of the other clubs are out there but I just don't. Could be there is a club out there that could totally handle it but they just don't know that they could totally handle it. Fear of the unknown etc. Or maybe they just don't wanna do it.

I didn't think about checking a Cup vs a nats numbers wise. It is so strange the way the numbers fluctuate with these events. We try every year to estimate attendance. Phone calls to racers. Emails. Texts all over "Hey, are you interested?" kind of inquiries. Then we get guys we didn't expect and lose guys that committed. I never have a feel for it exactly who is really coming to race.

Didn't nitro struggle with participation when gas become all the rage? How did they come out the other side? Or is participation still lower than it once was? Again, showing my ignorance. Trying to learn something we can use to expand our ranks moving forward.

[Doug Smock]

Gas is the only fuel source that doesn't seem to struggle with a Nats. In 2013 & 2014 there wasn't a Nitro Nats IIRC.

There was some talk (BOD) a few years ago about only holding the Nitro Nats every other year, every three or five years.
Chris re wrote the procedures giving clubs options on format opened the door to clubs that couldn't or wouldn't spend a week at the pond. The US1 format was killing it IMO. Yes it's cool but...

[don ferrette]

Gas is the only fuel source that doesn't seem to struggle with a Nats. In 2013 & 2014 there wasn't a Nitro Nats IIRC.

There was some talk (BOD) a few years ago about only holding the Nitro Nats every other year, every three or five years.
Chris re wrote the procedures giving clubs options on format opened the door to clubs that couldn't or wouldn't spend a week at the pond. The US1 format was killing it IMO. Yes it's cool but...

Actually Chris did not re-write the procedure, the 3 Nitro Nats format options (old US-1, new US-1 and heat race only) were around before him. I remember we talked about having the US-1 format like every 5 years, that kinda got tabled. And I agree while it's a neat format when you run the "newer" version where you heat race 1st and the top 5 or 10% (whichever is greater) go on to ovals and SAW rounds it is a good bit of extra work and cost (triple the amount of trophies). And then there are a few stuck in the stone age who keep wanting to run the "old" US-1 format where EVERYONE runs time trials first then heat racing. Nah, had enough of that format in days gone by plus since the emphasis is placed on heat racing with final heat racing points getting doubled it's a huge time waster in my opinion. I didn't go last year because it was old format, went this year as it was heat racing only and not going next year as again the dinosaurs want to run the old format (there are other reasons too but that's the main one). That's why I was really excited at the thought of Atlanta doing the FE Nats, was gonna go there instead. While it's disappointing for sure I thank the AMB club for even considering it.

[RaceMechaniX]

It looks like on average guys who race FE try and cram as many classes as they can for an event and the events are generally shorter compared to the larger nitro and gas races. Some of these classes use the same hull for both like P-cat and P-offshore, but that does not diminish the amount of work. In my humble opinion it takes the most work in between rounds to run FE compared to Nitro and Gas. Gas is usually just a matter of filling the tank and greasing a shaft every now and then. Other than the post race bickering over who jumped it's not too stressful. There also tend to be more heats for each class so back to back running is reduced. Nitro is not too different than gas you fill the tank, check the plug and bench race with your competitors over how fat your needle was and you could have squeezed her down two clicks to have a 100mph heat race boat. In FE we have to untape, pull the batteries, let them cool, charge them, install them and retape. Add back to back classes and more pit duties for your buddies and it's a pain. I also see there are generally more volunteers for Nitro and gas races who just manage the event without racing whereas most FE organizers still want to participate. It's not a ding on them, who wouldn't want to race at your own race.

I would rather skip a year or two if necessary to allow recovery between major FE races then force one every year.
I really liked the idea of the last NAMBA nats of running a super nationals with all power types. The top popular classes from each power division run. It does make for a long event, but the mix is nice.
Will this ever happen in IMPBA? I doubt it, but I would certainly be willing to assist nitro/gas organizers to make it happen.

[Doug Smock]

Actually Chris did not re-write the procedure, the 3 Nitro Nats format options (old US-1, new US-1 and heat race only) were around before him.

Right you are Don, I remember those conversations too.lol
Chris re-wrote the procedure to include all power sources. It went out to membership vote Dec.2017. FE had this format that you'd read and say WHAT!?!?!?!? :doh: Now all fuel sources have the same options available.:thumbup1:

https://nebula.wsimg.com/b31f8dfe716011fa821c1bc4c8838c81?AccessKeyId=ACA73 81D2BFC72351748&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

[don ferrette]

Right you are Don, I remember those conversations too.lol
Chris re-wrote the procedure to include all power sources. It went out to membership vote Dec.2017. FE had this format that you'd read and say WHAT!?!?!?!? :doh: Now all fuel sources have the same options available.:thumbup1:

https://nebula.wsimg.com/b31f8dfe716011fa821c1bc4c8838c81?AccessKeyId=ACA73 81D2BFC72351748&disposition=0&alloworigin=1LOL! Tell the AMB gang I said thanks for at least considering hosting the FE Nats. :cool:

[T.S.Davis]

I also see there are generally more volunteers for Nitro and gas races who just manage the event without racing whereas most FE organizers still want to participate. It's not a ding on them, who wouldn't want to race at your own race.

This is accurate. How many FE events are there to even attend? If they just volunteer and barely race they get to race at exactly zero FE only events. It's tough.

Tyler is right about the pace too. It's different. I guess it does come down to frequency. If ya know you'll only get a handful of opportunities to race FE you go completely insane when you get to. "17 classes!?!? HECK YEAH!!! Put me down for all of them!" Wears out everyone around you when you fall into this trap.

[rayzerdesigns]

It looks like on average guys who race FE try and cram as many classes as they can for an event and the events are generally shorter compared to the larger nitro and gas races. Some of these classes use the same hull for both like P-cat and P-offshore, but that does not diminish the amount of work. In my humble opinion it takes the most work in between rounds to run FE compared to Nitro and Gas. Gas is usually just a matter of filling the tank and greasing a shaft every now and then. Other than the post race bickering over who jumped it's not too stressful. There also tend to be more heats for each class so back to back running is reduced. Nitro is not too different than gas you fill the tank, check the plug and bench race with your competitors over how fat your needle was and you could have squeezed her down two clicks to have a 100mph heat race boat. In FE we have to untape, pull the batteries, let them cool, charge them, install them and retape. Add back to back classes and more pit duties for your buddies and it's a pain. I also see there are generally more volunteers for Nitro and gas races who just manage the event without racing whereas most FE organizers still want to participate. It's not a ding on them, who wouldn't want to race at your own race.

I would rather skip a year or two if necessary to allow recovery between major FE races then force one every year.
I really liked the idea of the last NAMBA nats of running a super nationals with all power types. The top popular classes from each power division run. It does make for a long event, but the mix is nice.
Will this ever happen in IMPBA? I doubt it, but I would certainly be willing to assist nitro/gas organizers to make it happen.

The last 2 nats now combined have been long.. but def fun.. 2019 in Utah should be a blast..yes miss out on a few classes.. but I run gas and fe.. and really can’t do two separate races..

[T.S.Davis]

Wouldn't this make a nice nats location? Turn one might be tough on props.

[TRUCKPULL]

Wouldn't this make a nice nats location? Turn one might be tough on props.

Lilly pads - I say what Lilly Pads. (sharpen your props)

Larry

[T.S.Davis]

Turn one is ice right now Larry.

[TRUCKPULL]

Turn one is ice right now Larry.

Sorry Terry - hard to tell in the picture - looks like real flat water - should of had snow on the lawn.

And YES that would be very hard on Props and Rudders.

Larry