Twin XLX Zonda what TP Motor and props ????

[Speedfreek]

As the title states, modifying two XLX's waterproofing, cooling mods from ideas on this site thanks guys :thumbup: .
I have been running the XLX in my rc car and know all the ins and outs of the software and i love it.
So the big question is what size TP Can 40?? should i get and what kV ?
Going to be 6S per ESC .
Looking for best of both worlds run time and speed 80mph :biggrin:
Turnigy Graphene batteries Specs:
Capacity:*!**5000mAh
Voltage:*!**6S1P / 6 Cell / 22.2V
Discharge:*!**65C Constant / 130C Burst
And what prop to use with it ?
Rx and servo will be powered by a 6.6V life battery even tho two XLX's have 20A bec each
And it's in a Zonda.

I have to stop looking at this forum, you guys keep giving me idea's and i keep spending more money :rofl:

[fweasel]

TP4050 1460kV, 1570kV, 1700kV variants on 6S will put you right around the 30K RPM range and is a good size motor for that hull.

[Speedfreek]

Nice nice what do you think of 4060 1700kv ?
Isn't the magic number these days 40k rpm range so i have been told or is the Zonda not capable of doing this?

[fweasel]

Your RPM depends on what you want out of the boat. I'm using 4060 2450kV motors on 5s in my 45" cat for SAW runs. I'm also going to run a 4060 1750kV on 6s in my 37" Genesis, again for SAW runs only. Both of those setups will be around 45K RPM, unloaded, and will have only enough battery for a handful of passes. Search for existing builds on that hull and research what people are running setup wise and what the resulting speeds and run times work out to be.

[Speedfreek]

Your RPM depends on what you want out of the boat. I'm using 4060 2450kV motors on 5s in my 45" cat for SAW runs. I'm also going to run a 4060 1750kV on 6s in my 37" Genesis, again for SAW runs only. Both of those setups will be around 45K RPM, unloaded, and will have only enough battery for a handful of passes. Search for existing builds on that hull and research what people are running setup wise and what the resulting speeds and run times work out to be.

Thanks for the reply, i have searched until my head :flashfire: lots and lots of info
Just want to lock it in now .
Ok 4060 locked in, now for kV 1750 or 1950 , my head hurts :bash:

[Speedfreek]

Thanks for the reply, i have searched until my head :flashfire: lots and lots of info
Just want to lock it in now .
Ok 4060 locked in, now for kV 1750 or 1950 , my head hurts :bash:

Can i get some help :unsure:

This is what i do know, the 1750kv is a 3Y 213A 29v

And the 1950kv is a 5D 248A 25.6V, which is where about a 6S Lipo is fully charged

What does that 5D, 3Y mean ?

What is better ?

[srislash]

Your RPM depends on what you want out of the boat. Search for existing builds on that hull and research what people are running setup wise and what the resulting speeds and run times work out to be.
Careful where you send him Ryan, lol.

[srislash]

Can i get some help :unsure:

This is what i do know, the 1750kv is a 3Y 213A 29v

And the 1950kv is a 5D 248A 25.6V, which is where about a 6S Lipo is fully charged

What does that 5D, 3Y mean ?

What is better ?

Ok, a 6s lipo under load will likely pull down to 23-24 volts so you can get the readings from that more realistically.
If you are not experienced yet too much go with the 1750 3y.
Y & D are in relation to how the winding in the motor are done. The numbers are how many winds of wire are in the motor.

[dmitry100]

I have a TP 4050 2050kv motor in great condition available in the for sale section, in case you are interested.
It would run good on 5s or 6s. I ran it on 6s and clocked 107mph with it

If you are looking to run it as a twin, I have a second motor that is exactly the same which I can also sell.

[Speedfreek]

Ok, a 6s lipo under load will likely pull down to 23-24 volts so you can get the readings from that more realistically.
If you are not experienced yet too much go with the 1750 3y.
Y & D are in relation to how the winding in the motor are done. The numbers are how many winds of wire are in the motor.

Thanks i might go for the D wind, even tho i am not that experienced, i don't want to be purchasing lots of motors to get to 80 ish mph.
So 1950 kv seems like the one to get no !

[Speedfreek]

I have a TP 4050 2050kv motor in great condition available in the for sale section, in case you are interested.
It would run good on 5s or 6s. I ran it on 6s and clocked 107mph with it

If you are looking to run it as a twin, I have a second motor that is exactly the same which I can also sell.

Wow how good is that, yes it is a twin and from what i read on the forum here the 4060 is good at holding rpm (torque) but thanks for the offer :beerchug:

[Old School]

From what I have read a D wind will run cooler with more torque and a Y wind will spin faster with more heat. A "D" wind should be "timed" between 0 - 3.5 and a "Y" wind timing is usually factory set on the ESC at 15, but I prefer 11.25.

[Speedfreek]

From what I have read a D wind will run cooler with more torque and a Y wind will spin faster with more heat. A "D" wind should be "timed" between 0 - 3.5 and a "Y" wind timing is usually factory set on the ESC at 15, but I prefer 11.25.

Thanks for the extra brake down i appreciate it :thumbup1:
What part of Australia are you ?

[Old School]

I am in Sydney.

[Speedfreek]

:thumbup:

[Speedfreek]

So it looks like a 4060 1950kV for about a handfull of runs
What do you think, good to go ?

[Old School]

Have a temperature gun handy and maybe a couple of slices of bread to toast on the motor.

[Speedfreek]

Have a temperature gun handy and maybe a couple of slices of bread to toast on the motor.

Really?
Not that i am doubting you but other forum member is running 2050 ish kv doing 107 mph

[rol243]

Those kv,s on 6s are ok for saw but not oval stuff.

[Old School]

Really?
Not that i am doubting you but other forum member is running 2050 ish kv doing 107 mph

How many times did the operator achieve his 107 mph mark? Perhaps once only. The same boat can achieve a top speed one day only to fail miserably on the next run. Outright speed is not just the number of kv's a motor has. As mentioned earlier caution should be adhered to. Hull tuning, water conditions, prop size, battery capacity all need to be taken into account. Even attaining 80 mph will be a milestone, let alone exceeding the ton.

The hull will need considerable modification before trying SAW runs, look to the hull mods "fweasel" is doing to a Genesis hull for SAW running in the boat building forum section. Speed is not just a powerful high revving motor. A blowover at speed may well destroy the hull with little left to float.

Outright speed is one of my son's ambitions so I understand your thinking, however, take small steps, gradually increasing prop size to ensure the hull settings and electronics are right.

[Speedfreek]

How many times did the operator achieve his 107 mph mark? Perhaps once only. The same boat can achieve a top speed one day only to fail miserably on the next run. Outright speed is not just the number of kv's a motor has. As mentioned earlier caution should be adhered to. Hull tuning, water conditions, prop size, battery capacity all need to be taken into account. Even attaining 80 mph will be a milestone, let alone exceeding the ton.

The hull will need considerable modification before trying SAW runs, look to the hull mods "fweasel" is doing to a Genesis hull for SAW running in the boat building forum section. Speed is not just a powerful high revving motor. A blowover at speed may well destroy the hull with little left to float.

Outright speed is one of my son's ambitions so I understand your thinking, however, take small steps, gradually increasing prop size to ensure the hull settings and electronics are right.

O Yea for sure, so do you really think the D wind 4060 1950kV is no good ?
What would you recommend for 80 ish mph ?

[Old School]

I am not criticising your choice of motor as I am very fond of TP Power motors, having them in two self righting hulls (4050 and a 4060) plus two 4070 TP's set aside for a 1300 mm cat project. For high speed SAW runs it is most likely a very good choice. All I am saying is tread with caution rather than jumping into the deep end. High speed running can be an expensive past time.

[Speedfreek]

I am not criticising your choice of motor as I am very fond of TP Power motors, having them in two self righting hulls (4050 and a 4060) plus two 4070 TP's set aside for a 1300 mm cat project. For high speed SAW runs it is most likely a very good choice. All I am saying is tread with caution rather than jumping into the deep end. High speed running can be an expensive past time.

Fair enough, i did a run today with the SSS 3675 i think, 1650kV 45 1.6 cnc prop with the seaking 180A esc and it's ok but not fast enough for me thats all, my rc car does 144 mph i am just use to going fast :roflol: i tried to gps the speed with my Garmin forerunner 301 but no good on the inside of the lid. :sad:

[NativePaul]

Looking for best of both worlds run time and speed 80mph :biggrin:

Speed and runtime are a compromise, if you want a 42" cat to do 80mph the runtime isn't going to be long at all, you will be looking at well under 2minutes max, and you equipment would thank you if you kept it to just a few seconds

[Speedfreek]

How many times did the operator achieve his 107 mph mark? Perhaps once only. The same boat can achieve a top speed one day only to fail miserably on the next run. Outright speed is not just the number of kv's a motor has. As mentioned earlier caution should be adhered to. Hull tuning, water conditions, prop size, battery capacity all need to be taken into account. Even attaining 80 mph will be a milestone, let alone exceeding the ton.

The hull will need considerable modification before trying SAW runs, look to the hull mods "fweasel" is doing to a Genesis hull for SAW running in the boat building forum section. Speed is not just a powerful high revving motor. A blowover at speed may well destroy the hull with little left to float.

Outright speed is one of my son's ambitions so I understand your thinking, however, take small steps, gradually increasing prop size to ensure the hull settings and electronics are right.

I want more then 2 min :sad: 5 to 8 would be good .
I hear what your saying on the last part, of course i would start with the smallest prop and tune stingers accordingly i understand :thumbup1:
Here is my run today fpv https://youtu.be/JcfDWQYG9bg.

[NativePaul]

Physics:rules:

[NativePaul]

Sorry but 80mph with a 42" cat for 5-8 minutes on 6s is just not realistic, unless your definition of 5-8 minutes is 1x 80mph pass, then 5-8 minutes of tooling around at 30-40mph. You need to readjust either your speed or runtime expectations.

80mph is possible, but you wont get anything like 5-8 minutes runtime at high throttle levels.

5-8 minutes is possible, but not at anything like 80mph, 50-55 would be more realistic, and then only if you meant 6s1p 5000mAh per side for 10000mAh total, if your total capacity is 5000mAh I think you would be doing very well to crack 40mph for 5 minutes.

[urbs00007]

I want more then 2 min :sad: 5 to 8 would be good .
I hear what your saying on the last part, of course i would start with the smallest prop and tune stingers accordingly i understand :thumbup1:
Here is my run today fpv https://youtu.be/JcfDWQYG9bg.

nice video. ever think of turning camera around and driving with fpv goggles? by the way, what camera are you using?

[Speedfreek]

nice video. ever think of turning camera around and driving with fpv goggles? by the way, what camera are you using?

Lol, just a cheaper alternative to the overpriced go pro, ThiEYE Edge

[Speedfreek]

Sorry but 80mph with a 42" cat for 5-8 minutes on 6s is just not realistic, unless your definition of 5-8 minutes is 1x 80mph pass, then 5-8 minutes of tooling around at 30-40mph. You need to readjust either your speed or runtime expectations.

80mph is possible, but you wont get anything like 5-8 minutes runtime at high throttle levels.

5-8 minutes is possible, but not at anything like 80mph, 50-55 would be more realistic, and then only if you meant 6s1p 5000mAh per side for 10000mAh total, if your total capacity is 5000mAh I think you would be doing very well to crack 40mph for 5 minutes.

Yea, a bit of wishful thinking :biggrin: it wont be just flat out it will be like you said in the first paragraph :thumbup1:
O well it is what it is.

Ordered 2X TP 4060 1950Kv cans for a really good price for the XLX to punish :laugh:
Thanks again guys for your knowledge on the subject :beerchug:

[MarkF]

Wow where do you guys get your numbers from. I run a TP 4070 1520 KV motor in a 6s rigger and a 2215 prop and the boat does 80 mph for 2 to 3 minutes. And pulls close to 300 amps. What do you think your high KV motors are going to pull on 6s. In a boat this size I wouldn't run anything smaller than the 4070 and keep the kv from 1350 to 1520 and you will get good speed and runtime. 700 to 2000 for 6s is a no no for sport running. Those are Kvs for saw running. Listen to native Paul here.

Mark

[Speedfreek]

Wow where do you guys get your numbers from. I run a TP 4070 1520 KV motor in a 6s rigger and a 2215 prop and the boat does 80 mph for 2 to 3 minutes. And pulls close to 300 amps. What do you think you high KV motors are going to pull on 6s. In a boat this size I wouldn't run anything smaller than the 4070 and keep the kv from 1350 or 1520 and you will get good speed and runtime. !700 to to 2000 for 6s is a non no for sport running. Those are Kvs for saw running. Listen to native Paul here.

Mark

That's exactly what the TP Guy said to me " Verry popular in Thailand " he said :thumbup:

[Speedfreek]

Wow where do you guys get your numbers from. I run a TP 4070 1520 KV motor in a 6s rigger and a 2215 prop and the boat does 80 mph for 2 to 3 minutes. And pulls close to 300 amps. What do you think your high KV motors are going to pull on 6s. In a boat this size I wouldn't run anything smaller than the 4070 and keep the kv from 1350 to 1520 and you will get good speed and runtime. 700 to 2000 for 6s is a no no for sport running. Those are Kvs for saw running. Listen to native Paul here.

Mark

I changed my order to what you have, makes sense, thank you very much for coming in just in time to change my order i really appreciate it :beerchug:

[Old School]

I feel that there is a big difference between a rigger and a 41" relatively heavy catamaran. What works for one does not necessarily translate to the other. The OP wanted a SAW running hull but with sport running runtime. The two are diametrically opposed. SAW running by definition has everything operating to the extreme while sport running is at a relatively detuned level of maximum operating limits. It is not just kv that determines outright speed. A high kv motor will require a relatively smaller sized propellor to keep amperage draw within limits and conversely a lower kv motor will allow a larger propellor to be used, the size depending on planned amperage draw. Buying just one motor to do multiple tasks is merely a stop gap measure as outright speed will require a lot of research comparing kv with prop size with amperage draw.

A high kv motor running for a few seconds is possible to achieve a specific aim, however, one must have a thick wallet if this is the ultimate aim as something is going to fail. It is not only the motor that may fail but highly likely the ESC as well as the batteries, not discounting actual mechanical failure such as a prop throwing a blade or a shaft disintegrating. An analogy for me is the difference between drag racing a 1/4 mile strip or a 500 mile endurance race. The vehicle must be designed for the intended purpose.

Those that have achieved the magical high speeds have been in the hobby for a long time building up their experiences over many years to achieve these figures. I highly doubt an operator with minimal experience will accidentally achieve a high figure. It is not just the boat that attains the speed but the person with the transmitter reading the conditions and keeping his nerve. My comments are general and not aimed at specific individuals.

[rol243]

I have found over my 40 years of r/c experience that in the earlier days many guys that set up there boats for straight line speed [ saw ] spent hours and hours getting there model to perform and stay on the water before it was ready for a crack of saw. anyone can have a quick boat these days if they spend the dollars on the good gear including the hull but and i say but, it still takes alot of test and tune to get that speed record . I was lucky to obtain an Australian saw record some 20 years back but this record only lasted about a week as another member of the ampba knocked mine off the list . Its great fun to do fast straight line runs if you have the water for this , so anyone wanting to set up there hulls with big motors etc etc should have a go i say. we are now seeing near stock hulls hitting 80 mph compared to yesteryear where we were lucky to see 40 mph with modified set ups.

[Speedfreek]

Thanks for everyone's input, i appreciate it and MarkF comment just confirmed what i was told by the TP dealer, this is a large ish boat and will serve well with the extra weight of the 4070, that being said i am a fast learner and i have learned a lot from this forum and past experiences with Nitro boats.
i will keep updates of the set up, at the moment i am running 64.6 mph too slow for me :laugh:

https://youtu.be/JcfDWQYG9bg

[MarkF]

Good to hear you changed your order.A 4070 has more torque allowing to run different props and get the best of both worlds. If you were running a single motor I would have suggested a 1250kv but with twins, you can add more kv since the motors help each other. So what kv did you get. If you got the 1520 like I have, you can make that boat a 60mph boat with great runtime or a 90 mph boat for 3 or 4 passes. It's all in the props. I would suggest counter rotating 447s for long runtime and ABC 2216s for sheer speed. But whatever props you get, get counter rotating. And don't forget to get CR flex shafts to. Welcome to the world of twins.

Mark

[Speedfreek]

Good to hear you changed your order.A 4070 has more torque allowing to run different props and get the best of both worlds. If you were running a single motor I would have suggested a 1250kv but with twins, you can add more kv since the motors help each other. So what kv did you get. If you got the 1520 like I have, you can make that boat a 60mph boat with great runtime or a 90 mph boat for 3 or 4 passes. It's all in the props. I would suggest counter rotating 447s for long runtime and ABC 2216s for sheer speed. But whatever props you get, get counter rotating. And don't forget to get CR flex shafts to. Welcome to the world of twins.

Mark

Thanks Mark , 4070 can 1520kV, cheers, that is exactly what i wanted best of both worlds with the change of the props perfect
All ready have the shafts ready to go :thumbup: , excellent advice .
Ps i will pm you if i get stuck on something :thumbup1:

[Speedfreek]

Updated on what's going on
First the silicone conformal coating of the XLX 3X layers this stuff is carcinogenic so use a respirator.
I was going to change the capacitors but it will be ok for 6S if it was 8S then i would have changed them out.
158833
158834
And the heat sink, working progress, no cnc here (old school) grinder to get the most of the cooling fins then hand file :biggrin: .
The three point's of contact i think on each side will be ample amount of cooling.
158835
The thermal paste will take up any low or high spots for the 10x10 aluminum water cooling block (Idea from a member here :tiphat:).

[Speedfreek]

Ok here is another question, i have two cables for the ESC.
One is the RX which goes to throttle, chanel 2 on the reciver.
Then i have the AUX wire which goes to a spear channel, in my case it's channel 3.
Here is the question because i am running two XLX's can i plug two of the AUX wire to a Y connector to my channel 3 on the RX ?
I am getting a Opto board form a member here :tiphat: to hook up the two ESC's into one for the RX, but not sure on the AUX side ?
I assume this is for the data loging side of things.

158838

[MarkF]

I don't know anybody that uses the aux wire. I would check with castle and see what it's for. You use a simple Y to connect both esc into one channel. If the esc has a bec then disconnect one of the red wires. You don't need both becs connected into one.

Mark

[CraigP]

The Aux wire is to control a motor parameter dynamically, thru another rec channel. The manual declares, in multiple spots, this it needs to be connected to a rec channel in order for the ESC to fully enable itself. I don’t use this Esc, so I’m not certain if those statements in the manual are indeed accurate.

[Speedfreek]

I don't know anybody that uses the aux wire. I would check with castle and see what it's for. You use a simple Y to connect both esc into one channel. If the esc has a bec then disconnect one of the red wires. You don't need both becs connected into one.

Mark

Thanks Mark

[Speedfreek]

The Aux wire is to control a motor parameter dynamically, thru another rec channel. The manual declares, in multiple spots, this it needs to be connected to a rec channel in order for the ESC to fully enable itself. I don’t use this Esc, so I’m not certain if those statements in the manual are indeed accurate.

Yes correct, not game to not use it not connected on the XLX, everything is expensive to bring over here to Australia . 158891 [ATTACH=CONFIG]158892

[Speedfreek]

Got the Aluminum cooling blocks cut and centre punched ready for the water cooling tube nipples :laugh:,
Waiting for them to arrive so i can centre drill them and tap the thread
158896

And my new motors have arrived :banana:

158897
Drilled and tapped
159052
Just waiting for my other XLX to arrive to get the same treatment as this one .
Plugged it into the laptop and adjusted the parameters ready to go, might need to adjust rotation of motor only if needed.

[Tbauer]

You got that right, I had a Fighter Cat Fantasm that I had 1 good blow over, split the hull at the seams, sank instantly. I had to scuba dive for it......... there isn't enough flotation to keep a boat afloat with a split seam....ugh

[Speedfreek]

You got that right, I had a Fighter Cat Fantasm that I had 1 good blow over, split the hull at the seams, sank instantly. I had to scuba dive for it......... there isn't enough flotation to keep a boat afloat with a split seam....ugh

Wholly crap, looking at getting a Mystic ARTR 1140mm 44"hull from Germany

[Tbauer]

Wholly crap, looking at getting a Mystic ARTR 1140mm 44"hull from Germany

Well that's where I got this one from, thru KBB. He did the inlay, I went with the honey comb, the motor mounts, drive install, and rudder install. Then had it painted and I ordered the sticker kit from Korea.. Originally had Leopards 1600 with 180 esc's, then went to TP.... ran that until one of my esc's finally let go, then got these really nice ones and then got into drones and FPV. I was kicking around with the idea of selling mine. It's got some nice stuff on it and its well made as you know. Just not sure I can part with it unless the price is right. Not expensive, I am well aware of toys and hobbies right....lol If your interested in picking one up sooner that later I maybe the guy.....lol

[Speedfreek]

Well that's where I got this one from, thru KBB. He did the inlay, I went with the honey comb, the motor mounts, drive install, and rudder install. Then had it painted and I ordered the sticker kit from Korea.. Originally had Leopards 1600 with 180 esc's, then went to TP.... ran that until one of my esc's finally let go, then got these really nice ones and then got into drones and FPV. I was kicking around with the idea of selling mine. It's got some nice stuff on it and its well made as you know. Just not sure I can part with it unless the price is right. Not expensive, I am well aware of toys and hobbies right....lol If your interested in picking one up sooner that later I maybe the guy.....lol

Any picks?

[Tbauer]

Any picks?

https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?59274-Buyer-interest-in-MHZ-Mystic-114

[Speedfreek]

https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?59274-Buyer-interest-in-MHZ-Mystic-114

Aaa yes lol
What price are you looking at ?

[Tbauer]

Aaa yes lol
What price are you looking at ?

Not sure, and I didn't get much help from the forum....lol

What were you looking to spend? Where are you located?

[Tbauer]

Aaa yes lol
What price are you looking at ?

If your a serious buyer perhaps we can work something out. I can show you what was spent etc and we can do the whole back and fourth thing......lol I really don't want to sale it in parts, the drives alone we're like 400.00, but they are worth it when your looking for critical adjustments for SAW speed

[Speedfreek]

If your a serious buyer perhaps we can work something out. I can show you what was spent etc and we can do the whole back and fourth thing......lol I really don't want to sale it in parts, the drives alone we're like 400.00, but they are worth it when your looking for critical adjustments for SAW speed

I just got the total from MHZ in Germany.
Pm me with what you are willing to part with it for .
I am in Australia

[Tbauer]

Sent

[Speedfreek]

Sent

Nothing received

[Tbauer]

just email me then and I will reply....not sure what went wrong

tbauerc4343@gmail.com

[Speedfreek]

just email me then and I will reply....not sure what went wrong

tbauerc4343@gmail.com

Email sent

[jameskenn98]

These are some of the great electronics modifications. I get amazing ideas after reading this thread.