Will castle return to marine esc's?

[R2315]

Hi all,

I read some chat a while back about castle possibly coming back into the marine esc market... any news?

[Doug Smock]

I asked Joe a few weeks ago. He said nothing yet.:sad:

[R2315]

That's to bad, I was kinda hoping something was in the works. You would think they would do well, even if they started back up with the same ones they were selling before.

[Doug Smock]

Yes sir. I have some Hydra 240s that have been raced for nearly 10 years!

[T.S.Davis]

All they need to do is a comformal coat a mamba and drop it in the 250 case. Done.

[photohoward1]

They lost too much money on boats. Too many abused controllers people thought should be warrantied.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[R2315]

With the logging capabiltes castle has there should be a separate log that is not accessible to the consumer that would give a history of the controller when returned for a warranty claim. If you over amped or abused your esc and burnt it out then no warranty, although its probably not recoverable if it goes up in smoke but maybe worth a shot.

[Doug Smock]

As Travis mentioned, we will be working on some new boat ESCs. Over the past year of trade shows and customer interactions, we've received so many requests to make them again. We figure it's time to make some next generation ones with all the modern updates (waterproofing, datalogging, water cooling, etc). It will take some time (6+ mos) for these to come to fruition so your patience is appreciated. We will be taking all the recommendations we've received over the years from customers and our own personal knowledge and wrapping them into packages that hopefully everyone can appreciate and utilize.

This was just about a year ago. Hopefully they are still working on it.

[dmitry100]

still kind of surprised by how tiny of a package the castle ice/edge 200 lite comes in.

not sure what the big deal is with waiting around for them to a boat version ... I don't imagine this controller would be any different than having 2 small tubes epoxied to the lite's aluminum plate or to the bus bars

[kfxguy]

I dunno what the hold up is. I talked to him a few months back, he was going to send me one to test when a prototype was ready. Maybe I should send them a prototype lol.

[NativePaul]

I believe they are potting their car ESCs and makeing them actually water resistant now, instead of using the crappy conformal coating that they used to use and calling them water resistant. Hopefully this change will carry over to their new boat ESCs if they ever come out, their sensitivity to water was the main thing to let them down before.

Hopefully they are working on a potable case that is not hugely heavy with heat sink fins like the car ones or the last boat one.

[kfxguy]

What I don’t understand is they had waterproof car escs but not waterproof escs that go in.....water.

[NativePaul]

At the time their car ESCs were only conformaly coated too, again advertised as water resistant but just as sensitive to water as the Hydras, I lost a MMM driving through damp grass.
I think the potted car ones came out after the last Hydras came out.

[Speedfreek]

I dunno what the hold up is. I talked to him a few months back, he was going to send me one to test when a prototype was ready. Maybe I should send them a prototype lol.

:laugh:

i will buy two of your cooling cases for the XLX !! Please

[kfxguy]

:laugh:

i will buy two of your cooling cases for the XLX !! Please

I replied to you pm. Sorry for the delay. I really think it’s cost prohibitive for me to make these things. It’s a heck of a lot of work, in my next version I’d just mill the whole thing out of a block of aluminum and have it screw together with carbon fiber end caps. it would be expensive but fine looking and reusable

[Speedfreek]

I replied to you pm. Sorry for the delay. I really think it’s cost prohibitive for me to make these things. It’s a heck of a lot of work, in my next version I’d just mill the whole thing out of a block of aluminum and have it screw together with carbon fiber end caps. it would be expensive but fine looking and reusable

Thanks anyway

[RaceMechaniX]

How many of you would buy a Castle boat ESC if there was no warranty? Just curious.

[R2315]

No Warranty..... prob not, I would at least want peace of mind for 3 moths or so just to insure no factory defects

[Speedfreek]

No Warranty..... prob not, I would at least want peace of mind for 3 moths or so just to insure no factory defects

Same ^^^^^^

[jaike5]

No, 1 year warranty from factory defects, I'd buy them all day long if they were made like a 40/160. and spend 2 hun more for the quality and programing, plug play, over heat protection, loads of head room, 4S - 12S.

[kfxguy]

How many of you would buy a Castle boat ESC if there was no warranty? Just curious.

I buy all my escs with the notion that there won’t be a warranty. Most situations the esc is not going to be covered so I don’t bother. Now if it’s doa, then I’d expect a warranty and castle can pull the logs and see it was never run. I tried to warranty that mgm I had because it was over $400 and that stung a good bit, but if it happened now, I wouldn’t worry with it because I know how things go with boat escs.

[R2315]

People have no problem buying them privately off eBay with no warranty, it’s no secret how good they are so I think most would be willing to forgo some warranty protection to get them back. As long as it not doa I’m in!

[TRUCKPULL]

I have got 8 - 240 Hydra's night now.
I did have 10 about 5 years ago, I have lost two in 5 years.

Larry

[dethow]

How many of you would buy a Castle boat ESC if there was no warranty? Just curious.

I'm in with others. As long as not DOA, I'd forgo the warranty.

Just a thought... maybe they should consider a tested/guaranteed working ESC with no warranty but then offer a service plan/contract. Maybe $250 for the original ESC and then an additional $100 for a 12 month service contract. Provide the option to re-up the service contract each year with each year of age on the ESC adding some cost.

Personally I wouldn't use it but it may give some piece of mind. Well... maybe I'd consider buying it (service plan) for the first year just to make sure. Especially when they first come out. But I couldn't see going to a second year and keep investing into a service plan when I could just spend that money buying a new one.

[dethow]

OR... maybe if not giving a warranty, offer some sort of trade-in discount and then if repairable... re-sell as manufacture refurbished.

Maybe original ESC costs $300.
If it stops working offer a $100 trade-in on a new ESC. Maybe between $50 to $100 depending on condition of trade-in.
$0 trade-in value if fire damaged, user modified or over 3 years old. (Age limits due to technology and discontinued models.)
If it can be repaired could resell as refurbished for $200 with a reduced $50 trade-in value.
Put serial numbers on them so they can be tracked.

:noidea: I don't know... they should do something to get creative. Protect themselves from abuse while providing options to buyers/users.

[NativePaul]

I am curently poor and back on the Suppo ESCs, so am not currently in the market, but I have had a bunch of castles in the past, most have had no warranty and it didnt put me off. As long as they still have the reduced price out of warranty repair/replacement it wouldn't put me off when I get some more money in the future.

I have had one that smoked on first plug in, and one that froze during programming and wouldnt wake up, on top of the ones that I have killed though, so I don't think that I would risk buying one if I would have to pay full price for replacement.

[R2315]

If for some reason they must offer a warranty. What if they were to implement a permanent log file for their use only with the serial number, the maximum values reached in amps, voltage and temperature. If you want a warranty replacement withen the first year, you first send in your log file which they can only interpret and if it meets the requirements you get approved to send it in to be looked at. Another thing, maybe a small indicator to show if it was exposed to water, waterproof or not you sink it, it should not be their problem. Not sure how much of this is feasible, maybe it's just not a big enough market for them, although it seams like it.

[Fluid]

I don’t think that forum members understand the economics here. There are only a tiny number of boaters to buy their ESCs. (To give a rough comparison of the markets: combined NAMBA/IMPBA memberships = 2500. ROAR = 5000. AMA = 200,000. FAA (drones) = 800,000+). Castle can only afford to make marine controllers because they sell so many for aircraft use. They modify them slightly for boats, but designing a marine controller from the ground up would drive the price way up. Even Schulze sold more 40-160s to flyers than to boaters.

In the past Castle lost money on their marine controllers due to ‘warranty abuse’. They are in business to make money and finally discontinued the marine versions. They would be foolish to do the exact same thing again and expect a different result.

I hope they do reintroduse an improved marine version. I’d purchase them without a full warranty, as long as there was a provision for initial product defects. Remember, full waterproof conformal coating would probably make them unsalvageable as a rebuildable unit, so repair/trade-in may not be possible. But that’s all my take, I can’t/don’t speak for Castle.


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[T.S.Davis]

There is a difference between initial setup failure and failure due to abuse. I usually know when I've asked too much of an ESC. Usually. Not every time of course. I don't ask for warranty on stuff like that. Not sure how many like this I've wrecked but in all honesty......it's a bunch. Then sometimes the warranty isn't worth the hassle. "But it's 5 years!" So what. If you mail one to the opposite side of earth for many dollars and a lengthy turn around. Only to get it back in the same condition that you sent it.....gets old quick. If you send it a second time for the same repair for many dollars again............no. I ain't do'n it. Into the box with the rest of the dead things.

The trouble for the manufacturers is that the internet often recommends setups that are very likely going to bake. When experienced folks suggest something wont work the debate ensues. The frequency with which world record holders are dismissed on this very forum shocks me. After the subsequent fire, the end user contacts Castle with "Well, some guy on the internet told me that would run all day long". Then he ran it for 8 minutes until it stopped. It stopped because it's seared to a crispy golden brown of course. Where does that leave a manufacturer? Castle used to just bite the bullet but with marine the replacement was much much higher than on any other ESC. Hence, they stopped making them.

I hope that Castle get back into them but we'll see. Havne't heard from Joe lately on it.

[ray schrauwen]

I've seen one person cleanly remove the pcb's from encapsulated Hobbywing escs.



I don’t think that forum members understand the economics here. There are only a tiny number of boaters to buy their ESCs. (To give a rough comparison of the markets: combined NAMBA/IMPBA memberships = 2500. ROAR = 5000. AMA = 200,000. FAA (drones) = 800,000+). Castle can only afford to make marine controllers because they sell so many for aircraft use. They modify them slightly for boats, but designing a marine controller from the ground up would drive the price way up. Even Schulze sold more 40-160s to flyers than to boaters.

In the past Castle lost money on their marine controllers due to ‘warranty abuse’. They are in business to make money and finally discontinued the marine versions. They would be foolish to do the exact same thing again and expect a different result.

I hope they do reintroduse an improved marine version. I’d purchase them without a full warranty, as long as there was a provision for initial product defects. Remember, full waterproof conformal coating would probably make them unsalvageable as a rebuildable unit, so repair/trade-in may not be possible. But that’s all my take, I can’t/don’t speak for Castle.


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[RaceMechaniX]

I think most of us would be happy if there was a DOA warranty that protected against initial plug in defects and the occasional software lockup.
Beyond that it is very hard to protect especially with boaters in mind. A black box or flight recorder could help warranty claims although it's generally obvious with boaters there was too much load, improper settings or not enough cooling. Castle were offering "at cost" replacements for a while although I am sure there were habitual users who returned frequently, myself included.

After being part of an ESC development and launch for automotive use I know there are huge R&D costs to cover in the sales price. However I also know the bill of materials cost for something like the ICE 200 is under $35. I have visited Kontronik in Germany and got to see the SMD process and assembly first hand. Quite a bit more engineering goes into the Kontronik controllers and this is reflected in their piece price. YGE and MGM likely have similar production lines and hopefully I will visit them in the future as well.

YGE plans on releasing a new 200A HV navy controller in the near future after the beta testers provide feedback. The design is quite nice and features datalogging including current measurement. It will likely limit power to protect itself much like the MGM's and Castle's do today. Here is an image of the Heli version:
158717

Fingers crossed we get more options.

[dmitry100]

Yea but that new 200a ESC from YGE will most likely be like $500+ which is incredibly ridiculous pricing - maybe its great for Heli's but ...

And then it will be on Hobbyking for $199 within a month's time

[RaceMechaniX]

Yes it will, but so will any decent quality well engineered product where the company hopes to be in business for years to come.

HK may copy it like YEP did with the YGE 180, but the clone 180HV Navy costs $245. It's the third most expensive ESC in HK. They also copied several of the flaws too........

We all know and love the older T-180V2, but wish it had all the data logging features of the Castle's. That's software development and where a huge chunk of the R&D money goes to. Making ESC's work with cars, heli's, planes, boats, inrunners, outrunners, 2 pole to 14 pole is all lots of work.

[ray schrauwen]

Does the Castle XL2 have current limit or power limiting?

[dmitry100]

Ray: I just checked in demo mode for XL X and it does have current limiting and an option to disable it. I believe they added a way to disable it in their more recent firmware...

[kfxguy]

I think from a business standpoint, castle offering extended warranty, trade ins...etc....is just too much to keep track of. Likely a lot of the reason they stopped selling them. Why can’t they just do the same thing that swordfish does? They don’t offer all of that and they seem to be doing well. If you get a unit doa I’m sure they will take care of you (I’ve never experienced that) but if you burn it up then it’s on you. A 300 costs almost 300 bucks and they sell out all the time.


Castle. Just make controllers that are quality, hopefully an option around 300 Amps included, and definitely make it waterproof. Make the price point around the swordfish escs and you’ve got a winner. Offer a doa warranty and forget the rest. They will sell like frigging hot cakes.