leopard 4092 1480kv problem

[Boaterguy1000]

why does my leopard model boat motor 4092 1480kv run for a minute then shut down and starts again

[Luck as a Constant]

For staters, how about sharing more info. Boat, batteries, prop, esc... and so forth.

[Boaterguy1000]

Hi,

The boat is a Hobbyking osprey, running an octura m447 prop with seaking 180a esc set to 11.25 degrees, batteries are turnugy nano tech 5000mah 65 -130 with ec5 connectors, after a couple of minutes it cuts power as if the thermal cut off has cut in, it has seperate watercooling for esc and motor, thanks, the esc is brand new, we have also tried different batteries but still does the same

[Luck as a Constant]

To start with, try changing the timing. That's a d wind so 0-5 degrees timing.
Check your driveline for any binding. Try a smaller prop yet? What's the lvc set to?

[Boaterguy1000]

the lvc is set at 3.0v

[Luck as a Constant]

What cell count? Is your esc set to auto calculate?

[Boaterguy1000]

It is set to 6 cells, thanks, last week we used a hobbyking 120a esc and it still did the same, could the motor be shorting out inside, although the motor and esc are cool to the touch, thanks for the prompt replies, it is actually my brother kenneth's boat but he is no good on computer

[Luck as a Constant]

try turning lvc down or off. I've had trouble in the past with setting lvc on those esc to 3.0

[Boaterguy1000]

if i turn it off will it not over discharge the batteries , thanks

[Luck as a Constant]

Maybe someone else will think of something I have not. But, process of elimination

[Luck as a Constant]

if i turn it off will it not over discharge the batteries , thanks

If you turn it off, just watch runtimes. 3 minutes on a fe boat is pretty norm. Otherwise just try turning it down to 2.8 or whatever the next lower setting is and try that

[rol243]

if this problem is still happening with different esc,s then you need to firstly try a smaller prop, make sure the shaft is not binding and there is a gap between the drive dog and strut [ 3/16 inch gap ] run the boat for 1 minute hard and see how things go. also make sure the bolts that go into the motor for mounting are not too long as there could be a chance that your getting some arcing which will cause heating in the motor.

[MadProps]

I, this very minute am experiencing the same issue with a brand new leopard 4074 2000kv and a seaking 180
I just upgraded the motor and the flex shaft......leo was timed to Y
tried 2s in series, tried 4s in parallel, then 6s in series

the upgrade shaft is spinning smoother than the stock shaft with a liner so its not my installation causing friction

on 4 s I made a run and at top end which wasnt impressive & it cut out...then would run at say 1/2 speed or less
tried 6s with same results, turned off the low voltage in the seaking ESC same results

I swapped to a 120A turnigy same thing.....then I turned off the low voltage and now it runs fine but again not really impressed with the speed the stock SSS motor is faster...for the money this leo better last more then 30- 50 runs like the sss motor did if it is going to be a slower motor

Ill try some tuning but not impressed with this leo at all...oh and the offset rudder brkt mod is also a big disappointment.....untill you hit 30mph and get it running on the pad it drags in the water throwing a spray up 2ft in the air till it gets up on the pad at real speed

I was able to achive 58mph on 6s with a complete stock genesis I will install the gps to see how much slower this LEO motor is going again Ill try some tuning

dont know what to tell you? I suspect the motor

[Peter A]

it just could be your batteries. Have you tried different batts?

[rol243]

theres realy not much to a brushless motor other than its windings / magnets and bearings so if the motor feels ok to turn by hand it should be ok, the esc is the main commander that works the brushless motor not like the older type brushed motors that mainly relied on battery power to supply rpms, this is why you can,t connect the brushless direct to a battery for power as opposed to a brushed that you can connect battery power and go. i would be trying this motor out with no shaft connected and hold 50% power on for a couple of minutes and see if the mount end of motor gets warm / hot plus any cut outs. as mentioned if you have longer than suitable bolts going into the motor face housing this could be causing an arc of current which will give all sorts of issues. i had this issue with an aero brushless motor where the bolt mountings were too long and just touching the internal windings, the motor was getting warm to hot very quick plus it was cutting out for no reason other than what i just mentioned. check the bolts to be sure.

[kfxguy]

1) like stated, the seaking 180's have issues with the Lvc kicking in prematurely. If your worried about running the packs too low then the ose store sells a add on lipo cutoff.

2) for the life of me I cannot figure out why people waste money on leopard motors when a tp power motor is twice as good for the same price. Not trying to dog leopard but tp in my experience has faired much better for the same money. Just my .02

[MadProps]

1)
like stated, the seaking 180's have issues with the Lvc kicking in prematurely. If your worried about running the packs too low then the ose store sells a add on lipo cutoff.
not my batteries....Im using 6 sets of batteries to test
nothing gets hot whatsoever
I bought the seaking 180 as it too is one of those that the majority seem to be using and recommending when searching for upgrade info and I saw no mention of this issue of premature cutout or I would not have made the purchase
so I will continue as you suggest to run without the esc Low voltage cutoff and rely on my own low voltage alarms


2) for the life of me I cannot figure out why people waste money on leopard motors when a tp power motor is twice as good for the same price. Not trying to dog leopard but tp in my experience has faired much better for the same money. Just my .02

as a newbie reading everything on every site to upgrade new boats .....I can tell you that the majority of people are recommending these leopard motors...so us newbs feel everyone else already has experience and we rarely hear people make statements like you did....
same thing applies to the goofy offset rudder bracket that bleeds off speed and sprays water 2 ft in the air till the hull gets up on the pad....read far far too many posts that the offset rudder is better for turning...I didnt feel enough improvement personally to deal with the obvious negatives it produces so it is coming off today

....whats a tp motor...and whats the best esc's on the market...I dont care about the cost ...buying inferior products cost more in the long run...
edit: in all fairness most of my info for upgrades came from another site till I found this forum and I appreciate the knowledge and lack of attitude here :thumbup1:

[CraigP]

TP is another motor manufacturer. I run Leopad motors and haven't had issues. I provide the proper water cooling, and do not take the motor over its recommended volts and wattage. It will not handle "being pushed". There are other motors that can push the line much more than a Leopard. Racers like to push lines, that's what they do! Sport boating, not so much. You want a consistent, enjoyable experience. I think you are getting opinions here from both sides of the sport. If you want to race, then get a better motor than Leopard. If you sport boat and like your boat the way it is and have no issues, then you're good!

[CraigP]

One other thing about motors. You have to make sure your running the right voltage. OSE parts site is horrible at putting all the motor specs in the part description! TP makes motors from 16-45V, so putting too much volts on them is a critical mistake. You have to research the motor and get the FULL specs. TP has a site that can give you all the specs.

[MadProps]

I think you are getting opinions here from both sides of the sport. If you want to race, then get a better motor than Leopard. If you sport boat and like your boat the way it is and have no issues, then you're good!

that may very well be a valid point

[CraigP]

A good rule of thumb is the lower kv motors are generally higher voltage, and the higher kv ones are lower voltage. But you still have to check!

[MadProps]

A good rule of thumb is the lower kv motors are generally higher voltage, and the higher kv ones are lower voltage. But you still have to check!

you have been a great help...thanks

[Fluid]

theres realy not much to a brushless motor other than its windings / magnets and bearings so if the motor feels ok to turn by hand it should be ok, the esc is the main commander that works the brushless motor not like the older type brushed motors that mainly relied on battery power to supply rpms, this is why you can,t connect the brushless direct to a battery for power as opposed to a brushed that you can connect battery power and go. i would be trying this motor out with no shaft connected and hold 50% power on for a couple of minutes and see if the mount end of motor gets warm / hot plus any cut outs. as mentioned if you have longer than suitable bolts going into the motor face housing this could be causing an arc of current which will give all sorts of issues. i had this issue with an aero brushless motor where the bolt mountings were too long and just touching the internal windings, the motor was getting warm to hot very quick plus it was cutting out for no reason other than what i just mentioned. check the bolts to be sure.

I am sorry, but there is too much bad information in this post to let it go. I would not want newer boaters to destroy equipment following bad advice.

- there is a lot more to a brushless motor than wire, magnets and bearings. Quality is a huge factor, cheap wire can short out, cheap magnets can demagnetized, cheap bearings can come apart. You cannot tell motor quality or condition by simply turning the shaft.

- running an electric motor without a load for "a couple minutes" will heat up any motor, good or bad. Without load all the electrical energy turns into heat. It tells you nothing and risks motor damage, don't do it.

- the comment about long mounting bolts causing damage is absolutely true, and this happens more often than many believe. Newer boaters may not think about this, with a ruined motor the result.

- the battery voltage still 'supplies the rpms' just as it did for brushed motors. The BL controller just turns that voltage on and off enough to control those rpm. Both the motor and the ESC are a team, if out is out of wack then the team fails.

New boaters come here for advice, as the OP did. We all have to be careful about what we read and the source it comes from. Most posters here are trying to be helpful, but sometimes the information is wrong. No different here than it is anywhere else on the Internet.


To the OP: in spite of its popularity, many T-180s/SK-180s had problems with the LVC. It was easy to fix, just disable the LVC and time your runs. Your evidence points to this as a the most probable cause.


.

[CraigP]

There isn't a lot of difference, in terms of winding, magnetic and bearing quality between high end brushed and brushless. The commutator on the brushed motor provided the electrical sequence switching, where the ESC provides it electronically. But there are power limitations that you can run on a commutator, thus the reason BLDC motors are superior in power capability. I remember some early high performance brushed motors. All sorts of tricks, stronger magnets and tricky slots cut in the rotor to reduce eddy currents, a source of power/heat loss. We've come a long way baby! Fluid your right, we need to keep info factual...

[rol243]

i really dont feel i gave any bad info about these motors atall. lets say the running of a motor at 50 percent not full 100 percent or at very low rpms is rather safe , this is why i did make the mention of run testing at 50 percent. another mention of turning the motor shaft was for testing any binding of internal componants such as a seized bearing or a collapsed / dropped magnet. this is all correct info and certainly would not mislead any new or old r/c modeler.

[MadProps]

i really dont feel i gave any bad info about these motors atall. lets say the running of a motor at 50 percent not full 100 percent or at very low rpms is rather safe , this is why i did make the mention of run testing at 50 percent. another mention of turning the motor shaft was for testing any binding of internal componants such as a seized bearing or a collapsed / dropped magnet. this is all correct info and certainly would not mislead any new or old r/c modeler.
I do not read it as he was speaking directly about you, your advice was good, I am a step by step tester aswell,
thanks

[MadProps]

update to boater guy, the OP's issue
yesterday I turned off the ESC low voltage cutoff and still had the same issue....

today I set the seaking 180A ESC low voltage to 2.8 and it runs on 4s no cut outs as we were both experiencing.....I dont know if my esc isnt turning off, or if I failed to save the change I made...but all is now well with esc voltage cutout set to 2.8volts....

I always run those cheapo $4 low voltage alarms one on each battery because the beeping is audible and I set the alarm to 3.6volts because the alarms really go off at 3.7 volts....so I recall....neither of the alarms ever have gone off when the motor cuts out like we are experiencing and the ESC safety cut out was set to 3.2volts....
so clearly the seaking voltage is far more sensitive as reported above great call man! cheers :beerchug:

set your esc cutoff to 2.8v or off as instructed above you may also see the issue go away

edit: tomorrow I will run the batteries down till the esc actually cuts out and take a voltage reading to confirm how far off the sensitivity really is

[MadProps]

ran the boat today on 4S till the LV alarms went off and kept going till the ESC LVC shut me down
voltage was set to shut down at 2.8v but actually shut down at 3.4v

so I now see that when I had the esc set to 3.2v lvc it actually was shutting down around 3.8-3.9v on saw runs

[CraigP]

Yes! I've had it hit off on me too. My data logger is showing that there is significant volt drop under hard acceleration. I'm doing the same thing. I'm going to bring the boat in if lvc goes off under acceleration. Going to use 2.8V too. A timer is good if you have a handle on your average running amps... I'm going to start to use both. If the timer goes off first, I bring it in. If lvc, I bring it in.

[MadProps]

I am using a timer and lv alarms,
I can also tell you this ....the leopard draws more amps, I didnt experience this till the top end of a 6s saw run prior with the genesis stock sss motor
this issue began when I installed the Leopard motor

[CraigP]

I believe that! Leopard isn't top shelf, so a different motor maybe for comp runs?

[CraigP]

I wish I knew what my true battery terminal voltage runs at. With the datalogger, it sees the volts after the power feed cables and connectors. They aren't running hot, but I know there is a drop occurring.. it's even lower at the ESC, so I think this is a good practice.

[MadProps]

I believe that! Leopard isn't top shelf, so a different motor maybe for comp runs?

Im not impressed, seems more like a replacement motor than an upgrade motor

[CraigP]

I'll have to try an SS motor. I wouldn't be in the sport if all motors were the price of Neu and others.. $300-500 per motor is a lot of money, for me anyway... So I'll just have to ghetto it with Leopard lol!

[srislash]

I would say based on the above statements that what the ESC's are seeing is voltage sag. You can help this with shorter wire, better connectors, better batteries, and lastly a cap bank. 5mm connectors are not really up to snuff for a 4092 Leopard. I run Castle 6.5's
In my experiences the move from 4082 to 4092 definitely results in amp draw increases.

The Seaking ESC must be sensitive as stated to see 2.8(or whatever voltage it reads at that setting), it may be reading it for a millisecond. Reading the battery when the boat is in likely is not what the ESC was reading. The battery would recover from the sag quite quick.

Shawn

[MadProps]

I would say based on the above statements that what the ESC's are seeing is voltage sag. You can help this with shorter wire, better connectors, better batteries, and lastly a cap bank. 5mm connectors are not really up to snuff for a 4092 Leopard. I run Castle 6.5's
In my experiences the move from 4082 to 4092 definitely results in amp draw increases.

The Seaking ESC must be sensitive as stated to see 2.8(or whatever voltage it reads at that setting), it may be reading it for a millisecond. Reading the battery when the boat is in likely is not what the ESC was reading. The battery would recover from the sag quite quick.

Shawn

another possible good call....when reading the temps immediately after I experienced a momentary shutdown to see what I could find..... was the motor to ESC connectors were the hottest parts in the boat, only 124F but still the hottest I will upgrade to 6.5
cheers

[MadProps]

update on wonky seaking 180a ESC

well after lowering the LVC to 2.8 it finally started working well .......it worked well for 10 more runs and totally quit for good on a 4s run, given they have a rep for incorrect LVC I just couldnt blow that much money on another seaking 180a....I ordered a swordfish 220a with data logger

[rol243]

i had this same issue with my hobbyking 180 esc, it was mentioned i should try and not use the built in bec and run a seperate receiver battery as others have had this issue and the fix was the use of a seperate external power source.

[MadProps]

I took advice to buy the seaking esc from several members posting advice on forums as to what esc to buy for up to 6s useage
so I didnt read the reviews from amazon where I bought it .....but I am contacting the seller about a warranty mine is dead after 30 days
and all the reviews of this product suck...caveat emptor
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PR9USFQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

edit: I sent in an rma request to hobbywing telling them I believe the esc is now stuck in LVC mode and wont power the motor ....and they too said the esc didnt sound like it was behaving well and set me up with an rma repair replace form
we shall see......