Stickered Popeye

[Insanity Plea]

I usually don't put many stickers on my stuff but this one came with the Monster layout. I figured I'd add to them and see if it all grew on me... what ya'll think?

152795152796152797

[Bp9145]

It looks nice to me.. . .simple and clean. ." no clutter look "

[Insanity Plea]

Thanks, I'm not a fan of the cluttered look either. I usually go for long and sleek.

[CraigP]

What prop you have on there? I was sooo close to getting a Popeye, but there was no stock. I wanted the carbon boat. I ended up with a DF Vortex 34. What are you going to run for batts and motor? I've got 8s 5300mAH, my little motor now, a Leopard 4074 1050kv on a SF150 Pro+ ESC turning an M445. Here's some pics...

[CraigP]

These boats are flyers, so did some sponson work and added a front canard wing.... so far, about 62mph. I have a bigger Leonard motor, a 4082 1200kv to try and get her in the 70's. no blow overs yet!! Keeping fingers crossed..

[Insanity Plea]

I just had the maiden voyage with it and I don't consider it successful, but it was more like an experiment anyway. I've read a good setup for this boat is a 4074 2200kv on 4s but... I had a used leaopard 3660 2050kv that I stuck in it to try because I wanted to use the raider 150 I already had.
Boat ran too wet with m440 & x642 around 40mph, the 45x55 was better but it took a wile for the hull to get out of the water and temps climbed quick, 43mph. I put a m545 on it and got 47mph but heated up too quick. Last one was a x440/3 and picked the strut nearly all the way up, it got out of the water like I wanted but plowed horrible when throttleing up and I didn't know if it was going to make it to plane.

I have several options at home to try including the 4074 2200kv for 4s and a 4075 1750kv I thought about running with 5s. I'm not sure if the raider 150 is up to the task of either of those options though.

152817

[CraigP]

I don't think the 3660 is enough motor. My 4074 is the smallest motor I have. Have you checked COG? I think the Popeye needs it to be around the front of the turn fin. Mine needs to be at the back of the turn fin, but the sponson work changed things. If you see my pics, I have my 4 batts across the width, just in front of the back of the sponsons. I also moved my motor way forward, to put the weight mass as close to CG as possible. I do need 1-1/2 degree positive angle on strut with the M445. With lifter props, it's set neutral to -1 degree. That's strange it's running so wet, Popeyes are known to be flightly as well... Maybe also check rudder and make sure it's not angled forward and even try to angle it back. Turn fin should be neutral, but angling it back can free up the boat too.

[CraigP]

Yeah, looking at the pics between your boat and mine and it looks like I should be the one running wet! Your setup looks like it should be light on the water... Something's dragging it down

[CraigP]

To help get on plane faster, a hard right rudder just as you hit the throttle seems to help. May have to jerk it back left too.. I had one last thought... Did you knock the shine off the bottom of the gel coat on the sponsons? Super slick surface will really suck the water to the sponsons...

[Insanity Plea]

I haven't worked the sponsons yet which will happen eventually. I think that little motor just doesn't have enough :censored: to get it out of the water. You think the 4075 1750kv on 5s will pull less amps than the 4074 2200kv on 4s? I know either will be pushing it with the raider 150 but I kind of want to see what it can take.

[Insanity Plea]

152818

[CraigP]

The current drops a lot with increasing voltage, as long as you don't over prop. That's why I think p sport limited is a joke. They spec 4s and people blow ESC's right and left! I have a 150a in my boat and I'm pulling 80-90a average and about 115a on hard accelerations. I'm on 8s. I didn't go to 8s to run 100mph, I did it to increase my runtime and reduce stress on my electrical components. Looks like your rigged for two batt packs, head to toe lengthwise. Getting to 5s is awkward on two packs. I would do two 5s packs and wire in parallel. 6s is better, two 3s in series and it will Eire nicely with your layout. There are a lot of 6s ESC's out there, but I never use an ESC at rated voltage. Maybe others can get in on this and let's find out how many folks do run rated voltage and if they experience problems. I'm an old EE and I just don't use anything at rating, I apply de-rates to everything electrical. Motors, wires, connectors, batteries, the whole show. 20-30%, depending on the device...

[CraigP]

Looking at your pic, your right about being under powered... It's a tail dragger, a good sign of not enough power. That poor little motor is probably saying WTF!

[Insanity Plea]

She was definitely screaming at me!

I'm going to set it up with the 4075 1750kv on 5s, I can only get one 4s in there now the way the tray is configured but I can get two 3s batts in there if I fit them in like an upside down T. The 6s will be nearly 39,000 rpms so it'll just be quick runs when hooked up to those.

[CraigP]

Agreed, you would have to change motors to run a balanced 6s system. So how do you plan on putting 5s in there? Putting a 3s in series with 2s can be trouble. The cells in series should be identical.

[Insanity Plea]

I have revotronix 5s packs.

Are you advising to not run the 1750kv on 6s?

[CraigP]

Not while working the hull out. That's 39,000 unloaded, probably 36,000 loaded up. It would be a good "hot" setup. If you got the 5s packs already, why not put them in parallel and get some good run time.

For comparison, I'm running 5300mah 2s packs, all in series. On my small motor, 4074 1050kv, the datalogger is showing 31,000rpm's. on the bigger motor, 4082 1200kv, I'm getting about 35,000rpm's. that range allows me to prop up without really picking up additional prop torque effects. I'll post more about prop torque in a bit, the boss is wanting something!

[Insanity Plea]

Oh yea, I definitely wouldn't run the 6s until I felt the 5s setup was running at its peak.

[Insanity Plea]

Bosses, always wanting you to do something... :noidea:

[CraigP]

I'm not sure what level of understanding you have with prop torque. Let me explain, if you know this, then I mean no disrespect. Prop torque is a counter force, produced by the resistance of the water being cut by the prop. A CCW rotating prop, our rc standad, wants to pick up the left side of the boat. This in opposition to motor torque, which wants to pick up the right side of the boat. Motor torque really only shows itself when the motor is accelerating, while prop torque is constant. It's the reason we pay a closer attention to it. Now, have you seen a figure skater on tv, that comes in for a spin. They start with the arms out, away from their body. As they spin, they move their arms in, their spin velocity accelerates, up to the max speed with their hands close to their chest. This is a gyroscopic force. I mention it, because you have your batteries in line with the motor. So as the sponsons start to walk (and all hydros have some degree of sponson walk) that weight setup in your boat will promote a very fast side to side sponson walk. I purposely late d my batts out sideways, to distribute this weight out over each sponson. In effect, my boat is in the "hands extended" position. This uses the gyroscopic forces to slow the sponson walk.

Again, I don't want to direct you towards any particular solution Scott. The fun of the sport is learning. I have a long background in Hydro racing, from smaller class boats all the way up to Unlimiteds, with the Pringles boat and my brother, also Scott, was driving. I also had my "tiny boat", 36" nitro hydro boat running. The crew used to kid me about the tiny boat, but it ripped. Anyway, sponson walk is a very bad thing and can produce a violent crash on the water.

Again, one man's opinion, just food for thought!

[CraigP]

Yeah, what's with bosses! Can't they understand I'd rather be running my tiny boat and if I can't run it, I'd rather be talking about it!

[Insanity Plea]

That was a great analogy to explain the torque and sponson walk! I think my 5s packs will be too tall to run horizontal of the keel. I wasn't setting this boat up to get but so fast, my idea was to use it to run with my daughters MG (faster of course), if I can get it to the low 50s with that 1750 motor I would be satisfied.
I have a new mean machine to build next, I bought a TP 4050 1570kv to run 5s in parallel, just looking for fun runs and maybe a 6s run here or there. When they are both up and running, I'll probably only keep one and concentrate on large scale gas again.

[Newboater]

I just finished building a mean machine, interior space is pretty tight where the batteries go. Also you have very limited room to mount the strut and rudder. Also water check the hull before building as mine had a pretty good leak at the seams in the rear. Easy fix but would have been easier if I had checked prior to finishing

[CraigP]

Looking good!

[Newboater]

Thanks,
as for the Popeye I heard the SSS 4074 2200kv 6 pole that OSE has was very good, I believe it was 785 that ran it and said he felt it performed better then the SSS 4082 2200kv. I have a carbon Fiber Popeye on order if it ever shows up.............

[CraigP]

I really wanted the CF Popeye too! Not sure if they are ever going to be available... I had to settle on a fiberglass DF Vortex 34. It's a bit longer than the Popeye and I'm glad I went that direction. But the carbon boat looks like the nines!

[Newboater]

I really wanted the CF Popeye too! Not sure if they are ever going to be available... I had to settle on a fiberglass DF Vortex 34. It's a bit longer than the Popeye and I'm glad I went that direction. But the carbon boat looks like the nines!

Kind of feeling that way too. Was suppose to be in stock 3 weeks ago. I have a deposit on one, but if it doesn't show up in another week or so just going to cancel the order. I thought about the DF Vortex also but being a lazy sh*t I don't want to tape the hatch all the time and the CF Popeye has a nice inlaid boarder support all the way around the hatch for a latch kit.

[CraigP]

I got my post wrong... the Popeye is slightly longer, but over 2" narrower that the vortex hydro. After looking at many posts before buying, I came to the conclusion that the width difference makes the Popeye less stable than the vortex. The Popeye is quite a bit lighter, but narrow and light means it will be limited to the degree of rough water it can take. So after considering this, I went with the vortex. I too, hate taping!!! So I came up with a solution. I'll post again with pics to let you see...

[CraigP]

With this, I don't need to tape. The red rubber is from a silicone slab, about an 1/8" thick. It's fairly soft, 40 Shore. I got them from my wife's work. They make rubber parts and these are lab test slabs. I cut and used RTV to attach the strips to the fiberglass rails. I got the cinch screws from Aeromarine Laminates, they are 6-32 thread and they come with the blind nuts. They had O-rings to seal the screw to the deck. I didn't think that would be reliable, so I found some bonded washers that have much more effective area. It takes less than two minutes, and no taping.

[CraigP]

Man, I'm glad you said something about taping! I just searched and found a silicone strip you can buy on the internet. It's 36" long, so no joints! And you can get with a pressure sensitive adhesive on one side. About $12 a strip. I'm going to get some, I don't trust the splices! Here's a link you can see: http://www.equalseal.com/product-p/redsilicone.htm

Here's where you get the bonded washers: fmw fasteners, p/n 2451001, $0.11 each

[Newboater]

That looks like a good way to go, I been using water proof foam tape that has been pretty good so far.

[CraigP]

Yes, that works too. Note that the foam rubber will break down over time, allowing leaks. Need to change that out from time to time...

[Insanity Plea]

I installed the 4075 1750kv and ran on 5s, I got 54 out of it but still needs some tunning. I had X445 or M545 on it for the fastest pass, the Y547 bogged it down but like I said, it's still running too wet. I believe the turn fin is keeping the bow planted (it's not stock) so I've ordered a .20 from ML Boatworks.

[Newboater]

Try adjusting the turn fin so it more parallel to the hull when they have too much angle back they pull the nose down. Also what make is the 4075 motor? 1750kv on 6s should swing the y547 no problem they were running that that prop on 4074 2200kv motor and 4s with good temps

[Insanity Plea]

This is the current angle

[Newboater]

This is the current angle
When looking at it try rotating it counter clockwise a few degrees and retest it. Hydro set ups can ne difficult with turn fin

[CraigP]

The strut depth is usually set at the same distance as the back of the sponsons. That's the starting point. Then if still running wet on the sponsons, move up very slightly, like 0.050" at a time. Make sure strut angle is neutral. I ended up with about 1 degree positive angle on strut. That's the back of the prop facing up. When you say running wet, do you mean too hard on the sponsons or dragging the tail?

[Insanity Plea]

I've made some adjustments, going to run it this afternoon and will get a pic or video.

[Insanity Plea]

Yea, boyz... she's dancing on the water now! I had dropped the strut a little bit this past week but I think what really made a difference was rotating that turn fin. Thanks for the advice guys, got 57 out of it according to gps, running a m545.

[Hydro-Wolf]

Hey Guy's,

I am new here in this forum. i have a question on your Set up's.
ok so the Power of a SSS4074 Motor is about 2.4 kW, if you run a 4S package there are available 15V, with a 150a ESC you only can use 2.25 kW. normally i think für spped-turns of 2 min the target must be 110% so for an 4074 the target must be 2.7kW, so you need an 180A ESC, right?

so why are you using only 90%?

anyway; i learned, the need of 4W / kg weight an Vmax (km/h). so if we use the SSS4074/2000kV we have 30.ooo 1/min with a m545 you can reach about 97.2 km/h - so for that speed (5kg for the boat), you need only 1.944W. so why do you use that set-ups?

please help me to understand.

I think the 3674 3200kV in use on 3S/4S with the same prop would be a good set up. for 110/150 km/h (68/93 mls/h)
and for larger PROP's i would like to use a 3684-2600kV motor.

so thx for your answeres

[CraigP]

Your math is correct. However, predicting the actual power draw of any given setup is a very difficult thing. So experience tells us how much power you need to push a given boat a given speed. Every motor has two power specifications, 1) Continuous Power - power you can run continuously, given adequate cooling and 2) Max Power - power that can be used on an intermittent basis.

I research a hull, find out what others have used. Once a motor is decided, I put in enough battery and ESC to run Max Power, using equations similar to your post. Here's my thinking: Continuous power is when the boat is hooked up good, no prop cavitation. Max power comes into play when the prop cavitates, rough water conditions, then hooks up again. Under these conditions, a large power spike is encountered. If the power spike is too high, I prop down a step. And obviously if Continuous power is too high, I either prop down or select a higher power motor, because I didn't estimate the required power correctly. I run hydros, so this response is geared mainly to that type of hull, but generally, it applies to all speed boats. On a hydro, I make no power conclusions until my hull is riding high and free, since this impacts the Continuous power greatly. So strut, rudder and turn fin need to be at their best settings.

[Insanity Plea]

I keep my calculations simple and test on the water vs running on paper.
Running rpm between 30k-35k
(5s)18.5v X 1750kv = 32,375rpm
Start off with a 40mm-42mm prop and check temps until I'm running around 115-120 degrees.
A raider 150 has been a pretty tough unit for me for props up to 45mm on a full battery cycle, it's taken some larger props for quick speed runs but I prefer to go in circles.

Don't get me wrong, calculations are great to get a rough idea but we all know what our options are to use. This is my opinion, if you want to run 40-45mph a 120 is sufficient on 4s, a 150 can handle 50-60mph on 5s, and a 180 should be plenty to get you to the limit of the hull on 6s. My conclusions are based on the 29"-32" hull, lower the kv when increasing prop size.

[Hydro-Wolf]

ok thank ypu for your Answer,

so for a boat running long turns for many minutes we only use 90%, in case of uning the 10% on bad weather etc. if we build up a hull for some second tunrs i use more than 100% power,
thats what i understand, sorry i am german, so my english is not well.

i had some experiences in some kinds of huls, but i like the hydro most. U-1, u-9, u-75

br

[CraigP]

Not sure what you mean by 90%.. Are you talking throttle? I run my hydros at 100% throttle, straights and turns. If I want less power draw and speed, I prop down. For comparison, I use a 150A on 8s in a 34" hydro. I "control" my amps by proper prop and hull tuning. I datalog everything, so I tune to a power spec. I'm running a motor that can run continuos power of 3.3kw, max power of 4.5kw, so I datalog to get a hooked up current of 3300/29.4=112A. All hydros will cavitate in rough water, so I check my max amps (amp spikes on the graph) and want to generally see 4500/29.4=153A, well within the capabilities of my Sword Fish 150a, which has a burst amp rating (1sec) of 180a. I think I use numbers more than most, and it seems you are a numbers guy. Just remember to verify your numbers thru data logging! But actual amp draws vs. props is done thru experience and verification.

[Boggy63]

How do you like your Popeye Hydro? I'm New to Rc Boats I'm "wet behind the ears"
I'm looking into buying a Popeye Hydro as soon as Offshore electrics get them back in stock. Since I've never had a Hydro buying a Popeye Hydro am I Biting off more than I can Chew? For my 1st Hydro I appreciate any Input & suggestions. Right now I've been this year out on the Lake with my Proboat Recoil 17 Thanks Boggy63

[Hydro-Wolf]

Hi, sorry i am German, and my English ist Not well.

Ok i like my popeye, i have replaced the 3660 Motor by a 3684 i think it is a 2300kv.
Then i replaced the esc by a hobbyking HV180 Marine.
Driving This boat with 4S LiPo. It will run over 100 km/h

Br

[CraigP]

A 3660 or 3684 is a pretty small motor for the Popeye. It can easily take a 4082... To address Boggy63, this is a fast boat! It will be a handful for you for for quite a few outings. I started my FE experience with a Vortex34, after contemplating a UL-1 for quite some time. I’m not sorry for my purchase, but I have since picked up a UL-1 and I can tell you, I should have started with this boat, which is a solid 50mph performer. I crashed my Vortex because it’s Speed was over my driving skills. Ultimately it’s up to you, but I really wished I would have parked my “lust for speed” and developed my driving skills before getting a high performance boat.