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covedweller
06-12-2016, 01:42 PM
It's no secret that Puget Sound Fast Electric Model Boat Racing Club is hosting the 2016 NAMBA FE Nationals this year. I am a proud member of said club, and I can assure you, we are pulling out all the stops for this event. I heard a rumor, and this is strictly a rumor, that this might be the last dedicated FE National event. I point no fingers nor lay any blame. It is what it is. I do want to appeal to any racers that might be on the fence about attending. If you have any questions or special needs, please contact us either on via the event website, or through social media, and we will do everything possible to accommodate.

http://namba2016fenats.com/

rayzerdesigns
06-15-2016, 10:26 AM
This is not a rumor.. Gas and fe will be combined next year in las vegas

T.S.Davis
06-15-2016, 10:35 AM
Is it a 45 day event? Yikes.

Darin Jordan
06-15-2016, 10:40 AM
This is not a rumor.. Gas and fe will be combined next year in las vegas


Is it a 45 day event? Yikes.

I've heard this too.

A National event is not REQUIRED to offer EVERY class listed in the NAMBA rules. My guess, and frankly, my recommendation, is that there will be selected classes offered, perhaps based on popularity or some other factor.

There are some obvious classes to include. There are also some fairly obvious ones that can be excluded.

T.S.Davis
06-15-2016, 10:56 AM
Yep. Agreed.

I've been advocating NOT offering classes that there is no demand for since 2005. I've never seen a heat of ECO at any nats anywhere. I've even NOT offered classes at the 2 of the nats we hosted. That 05 nats ran almost everything. 522 entries. We had numbers for everything that year. In 09 and 14 we just didn't put them on the schedule. Saved a ton of time.

The idea being that if a class isn't offered, those racers will migrate to something more contested.

I don't mind mixed events anymore. We're all just model boaters. We've all grown up a bit. They don't hate us as bad. The friction has faded. Lots of guys run multiple fuels now anyway.

I would still be concerned about the time it would take to get both sources done though.

Fluid
06-15-2016, 11:55 AM
We have had combined-power events in Texas for twelve years - FE, nitro and gas. Now that everyone uses the same course and clock/timer it is easy to put on. The only issue has been waiting on the tidal waves created by gas monos to die down before launching N-2 boats.

I enjoy meeting and visiting with the fuel guys, and have even learned a few things. I don't want a fuel boat - but I am not afraid of them either. Rather, I would encourage both NAMBA and IMPBA to run combined events as often as possible. Fear mongering does no one any good, we all play with toy boats.


.

T.S.Davis
06-15-2016, 12:51 PM
we all play with toy boats..

Would you believe some guys get annoyed when I say this? "THEY'RE NOT TOYS!"

.............um...............yes................. they are.

Peter A
06-15-2016, 03:39 PM
Would you believe some guys get annoyed when I say this? "THEY'RE NOT TOYS!"

.............um...............yes................. they are.

HAha some get upset when you say they are just toy boats! Well those people are usually already upset about something. I have been amazed at some of that!
Here in NZ the regattas are always combined. Gassers are the majority, nitro is barely surviving, and FE has begun to gain some respect and interest. Funny though how newcomers want to start with a 80 mph gas hydro!

Flying Scotsman
06-15-2016, 03:50 PM
"Funny though how newcomers want to start with a 80 mph gas hydro!"

Ah, the speed, cool looking boats, noise, rooster tails, what is not to like...just one of the hardest boats to build, setup and control for a newbie:smile:

Douggie

Peter A
06-15-2016, 03:54 PM
Funny though how newcomers want to start with a 80 mph gas hydro!

Ah, the speed, cool looking boats, noise, rooster tails, what is not to like...just one of the hardest boats to build, setup and control for a newbie:smile:

Douggie

Exactly! But suggesting a slower mono to start with doesn't do it for them. Neither does it bring lasting members when they smash their boat up and or someone elses. Sorry going off topic a little.

Doug Smock
06-15-2016, 04:42 PM
Rather, I would encourage both NAMBA and IMPBA to run combined events as often as possible.


.


I agree. As far as I know it has worked anywhere it has been tried. And why wouldn't it?:smile:

I've taken a little heat for calling them toy boats too Terry. But at the end of the day...............:laugh:

covedweller
06-15-2016, 06:41 PM
Well I guess if P limited OPC tunnel and P limited Rigger are your thang, the combo deal works out just fine. I just love the variety of FE. Would be hard to include EVERYONE in a 2 day event. If I wasn't busy working ON the nats this year I would be running for sure if its the LAST one. Rest assured, PSFEMBR will do everything we can to make sure tha last one is a great one! Come on out y'all!

Fluid
06-15-2016, 07:52 PM
Well I guess if P limited OPC tunnel and P limited Rigger are your thang, the combo deal works out just fine!
This makes no sense. We have run P Mono, P Offshore, P Sport Hydro, Q Sport Hydro, T Mono, T Hydro, and plenty of others (up to six classes in a two day event) in mixed fuel events with great success. We've never run the Limited classes mentioned above.

Why would any sponsoring body limit an event to only two days if there were enough boats for five? Nitro Nats in the past would run six or more days and filled each day. The rules even dictate a six to eight day Nats event.


.

properchopper
06-15-2016, 10:45 PM
If it wasn’t for the gas/nitro events in NAMBA D19 offering FE classes there wouldn't (with the exception of the SMB in Phoenix) be FE Sprints . The D19 Gas/Nitro races that typically include FE are season points chases that rotate between Legg Lake, Lake Havasu Az., Needles, Ca., Tucson Az., Las Vegas Nv., and Tempe, Az. With the expense of travel and the 5-boat minimum to make a class, competing for a District season points championship in FE is tough (ask Ray) . In the last few years the Southern California Scale Thunderboat Association began offering (basically) any FE class with at least three sign ups. Then these events paired up with the recently emerged Nitro group and now FE has more opportunities to both make a class AND get a seasonal high points finish (since these events are in L.A. exclusively).
We’re even seeing more crossover from the IC ranks to populate the FE classes which is a good thing given the loss of five FE racers in the last year due to relocation/passing.
It’s really “one big family” at Legg Lake and these combined events are just plain good times. Jay’s right ‘tho in that after three rounds of gas Thunderboat the course gets rather moutaineously rough for a 29” P-Ltd Cat.

Jeff
06-15-2016, 11:06 PM
Well if the FE members of NAMBA are upset that the currant leadership has decided there will be no more FE nats, with out discussing this with the rank and file. You could allways join IMPBA, you would be welcome. Just saying.

Who shares the rumors and why are there any ways?

rayzerdesigns
06-16-2016, 04:03 AM
Guys and gals.. Nothing is set in stone yet..there will be lots of discussion between now and after this years fe nats in Washington..but it will be a combined nationals for 2017..no one has said it will only be 2 days..and yes it will be in Las Vegas.. There are tons of things to discuss on classes..and who knows what rules will be new and or classes..for now we should be focusing on this years fe nationals in Washington..I will be there racing and making lots of observations.. Hope to see all of you there.. If you haven't signed up yet please do asap..

T.S.Davis
06-16-2016, 08:33 AM
Curious. Is anyone surprised by this? Numbers are numbers. The last big FE nats was 2005 really. Since then I think the biggest race was maybe 39 racers or so. Something like that. Even calling it a nationals pissed some guys off. Any trying to win high points at a nationals pushed those same guys to the edge of sanity.

I do wonder how a mixed nats would be received. Will FE guys travel for it? What would the schedule look like? That kind of thing. Will it be a gas marathon and then do an FE marathon or a mix every day? If there are 2 FE classes a day for 8 days that might be a drag. Sure would make far an easy pace as a racer. If they did one fuel type then the other fuel type you wouldn't have to be there all 8 days. Cuts the cost of attending down a ton. I just don't have a point of reference in my head for it.

One thing is for certain. Clubs like MMEU that have never run a fuel race wont be hosting a mixed nats. We wouldn't even know where to start. So a NATS in D2 wont happen unless another club is formed. This being IMPBA country that has well established clubs makes that highly unlikely.

Darin Jordan
06-16-2016, 10:00 AM
This makes no sense. We have run P Mono, P Offshore, P Sport Hydro, Q Sport Hydro, T Mono, T Hydro, and plenty of others (up to six classes in a two day event) in mixed fuel events with great success. We've never run the Limited classes mentioned above.

Why would any sponsoring body limit an event to only two days if there were enough boats for five? Nitro Nats in the past would run six or more days and filled each day. The rules even dictate a six to eight day Nats event.


.

Jay, I think he's just referring to the local D8 events. Presently, they invited the FE guys to come out for two slots... P-LTD OPC Tunnel and P-LTD Hydro. Traditionally, Nitro/Gas race weekends are two-day events, though, this year, participation is so low that they've dropped them back down to just one.

This doesn't have anything to do with a combined NATs, just what they've done locally regarding being "combined" events. They also allow "Open" Hydros to mix it up.

Darin Jordan
06-16-2016, 10:08 AM
Well if the FE members of NAMBA are upset that the currant leadership has decided there will be no more FE nats, with out discussing this with the rank and file. You could allways join IMPBA, you would be welcome. Just saying.

Couldn't resist, could you? :olleyes:


Who shares the rumors and why are there any ways?

Sounds to me like this is more than just a rumor... rayzerdesigns post isn't the first time I've heard mention of this.

Of course, when you attend events where the actual NAMBA leadership is attending as well, you tend to hear discussions.

T.S.Davis
06-16-2016, 10:45 AM
Some of us talked about this possibility back in 2014. It comes down to the numbers as I mentioned. I don't know of any NAMBA members that are all up in arms about it.

Not sure why we would do the NAMBA vs IMPBA thing. IMPBA hasn't had an FE nats since I've been racing. Not sure if it was a no demand thing or if it was just that nobody wanted to do it. So guys should leave an organization to punish leadership in favor of an organization that's historically been less dedicated to their little niche? Silly. Anyways, both organizations have grown. It's a controversy that doesn't exist in 2016. There's little difference between the organizations when it comes right down to heats and racing. I know many racers that are members of both organizations too. It's the same people at both brands of events. The IMPBA President, VP and Records Chair have all been to our Cup races just to hang out with more race monkeys.

Folks can try to stir that pot but it's empty as far as I'm concerned.

Doby
06-16-2016, 11:17 AM
Folks can try to stir that pot but it's empty as far as I'm concerned.

Thats all some people can do...:olleyes:

sjslhill
06-16-2016, 12:31 PM
wow, guess I would hate going to the nationals with nitro and electric at the same event.....nothing worse than ear shattering nitro boats and that toxic smelling fuel. Gas is another thing completely different. :confused2:

Not trying to mess with the pot, I just would not enjoy it. A time trial is okay with just one running.

RandyatBBY
06-16-2016, 02:16 PM
It may be a good thing, A blessing in disguise. In my district we did not have big turnouts for Nitro, the six or seven gas classes did not have enough to run alone. FE was too small to make it in it own. With the classes mixed classes ( that is gas running with gas only) we started with about 60 to 75 boats running the different classes. at first and about 25 drivers, Gas made up 48% nitro 25% and FE 27%. Then in time we started to get more drivers we had 50 drivers and 130 boats with it being 33% each.

T.S.Davis
06-16-2016, 02:30 PM
Evolution. I'm with ya Randy. We all need to get over ourselves (and I think most have). Each fuel source has it's merit. We all have a common bond. Fools with toy boats.

rayzerdesigns
06-16-2016, 04:17 PM
Trust me when I say it's not a rumor.. I will be helping Russ put schedule together.. It won't be s mix each day.. Fe more than likely will be first couple of days.. Agsin trying to get numbers up.. Maybe those that race gas and it nitro that have fe boats will bring them out to race.. Again.. This is not s rumor.. See ya guys in Washington.. If you have questions or maybe suggestions feel free to pm me.. Or even post here.. This will be a first.. And we want to make it right..

rayzerdesigns
06-16-2016, 04:19 PM
Don't forget.. It's Vegas!!!

Todd Fleury
06-16-2016, 04:20 PM
Vegas each year? You won't see me complaining!

photohoward1
06-16-2016, 04:22 PM
I have been attending mixed races for 10 years. Where have you guys been? It's always a good thing to blend the 3 energy sources. More guys. More Competition. MORE FUN.

sjslhill
06-16-2016, 05:56 PM
Trust me when I say it's not a rumor.. I will be helping Russ put schedule together.. It won't be s mix each day.. Fe more than likely will be first couple of days.. Agsin trying to get numbers up.. Maybe those that race gas and it nitro that have fe boats will bring them out to race.. Again.. This is not s rumor.. See ya guys in Washington.. If you have questions or maybe suggestions feel free to pm me.. Or even post here.. This will be a first.. And we want to make it right..

Having electric on it's own days makes a big difference, or would to me. Good idea. :thumbup:

T.S.Davis
06-16-2016, 06:56 PM
The more I think on it the more I think it must be separate days. Has to be for it to work.

Drive'n think'n. Hour commute. Sorry. Isn't the gas Nat's 8 days? Let's say we get a low FE turnout and only get 3 days worth of boats. 8 + 3=8?

covedweller
06-16-2016, 06:58 PM
As I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, I'm not trying to start any argument. Our club knows first had just how much work and money goes into putting on a large event like nationals. Vegas seems like a great place for the venue, kinda middle of the country. It will be sad that they can not possibly offer every class, but that would take weeks for all fuel types. We are scheduling a full week on the lake just for FE classes, and we will run any class we get enough boats for. I am just saying that if this is the last FE exclusive National event, ya might want to participate. End of an era type thing. I hope that all fuel types continue to race for many years to come. We have some great sponsors that I would also like to see be successful.

rayzerdesigns
06-16-2016, 09:00 PM
The more I think on it the more I think it must be separate days. Has to be for it to work.

Drive'n think'n. Hour commute. Sorry. Isn't the gas Nat's 8 days? Let's say we get a low FE turnout and only get 3 days worth of boats. 8 + 3=8?

Its going to be a first.. Not sure on total days for gas.. But trying to figure it all out..

RandyatBBY
06-16-2016, 09:30 PM
The only thing that has to be done is not to exclude anything, spread the classes out and not separate days that Nitro Gas and FE run. you will have cross over if mixed. The Nitro and Gas need to respect FE time of quite to run, tune and setup FE. I and several others run all three.

RandyatBBY
06-16-2016, 09:55 PM
My favorite pit guys are Nitro and Gas guys. Finally I could go to a Nats and not be racing all by my self.

RandyatBBY
06-16-2016, 10:08 PM
Evolution. I'm with ya Randy. We all need to get over ourselves (and I think most have). Each fuel source has it's merit. We all have a common bond. Fools with toy boats.:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::ban ana:

TRUCKPULL
06-16-2016, 10:20 PM
Vegas seems like a great place for the venue, kind of middle of the country.

Maybe for the west coast.

Larry

rayzerdesigns
06-17-2016, 12:24 AM
The only thing that has to be done is not to exclude anything, spread the classes out and not separate days that Nitro Gas and FE run. you will have cross over if mixed. The Nitro and Gas need to respect FE time of quite to run, tune and setup FE. I and several others run all three.
The only bad thing with that is the pond gets really tough.. Some time constraints..

rayzerdesigns
06-17-2016, 12:25 AM
Maybe for the west coast.

Larry
No one on east coast stepped up

Darin Jordan
06-17-2016, 08:29 AM
No one on east coast stepped up

That's been the issue with the NATs in general the past 4 or 5 years... That's why they ended up back out here on the West Coast again. No other club wanted to step up, or so I was told.

I can understand why. Seems like a lot of work, and, let's face it, FE guys don't seem to travel.

I'll be interested to see what the leadership comes up with. I have zero issues running at a combined event. If I had the time and resources, I'd race FE, Gas, and Nitro, so it's all fun to me.

T.S.Davis
06-17-2016, 11:31 AM
If I had the time and resources

Well yeah. If I had that I'd race with every club in NA.:laugh: Of course then my marriage would go........:Sinking: She would finally get rid of me as I've suggested for years.

Getting clubs to host a NATS is harder than it sounds. If you do it right, the idea is to not generate a single penny on the gig. If we come out with +$1 that's good enough for us. You would think people would want it in their back yard. They do but it always falls on the shoulders of a very small circle once a club commits. Everyone is gung ho but only a few know what to do. Some guys are willling to do leg work or labor but again.....someone has to cypher the whole thing out. FE clubs are typically small and usually relatively young. There aren't years and years of hosting experience to tap. If you go to a mixed event you wont believe how well run they are. I notice the logistics at a race. I'm sure it's just me. I noticed the organization at the CanAm for instance. Those guys got it down. Right down to delegating retrieve duties on a schedule. Very sweet. Atlanta was pretty stellar too. Atlanta members not racing at all. Just there to worship their guests so to speak. Each of those venue had people dedicated to the race itself. You see that less with FE. I think that may be partly a result of there being so few FE races to attend on a regular basis. FE guys like those that run M Cup races want to race too. Pretty tough to CD all the heats each day, race a few boats (poorly), cook the scores, do registration in the morning, answer every question that comes up, have 10 minutes to talk to anyone, make snap calls to piss everyone off. So you're frustrated. Someone is whining or grumbling. Now have a problem with your boat. You're scratched out of any class that you have a boat issue. There's no time to swap out even an RX unless someone does it for you. This is especially so if that circle putting it together is small. It's exhausting.

Ray of sunshine. Sorry.

Ken and I talked about this the other day. What clubs east of the Mississippi river could handle hostind a NAMBA FE nationals? MMEU, Morris County (if we could talk them into it), Wave Blasters and that's about it. Last time Morris County hosted was 2006. Skeleton crew. I don't think they loved it. Only one guy from the west showed. He showed up mid day to boot. MMEU hosted 3 times in 10 years. Plus a half dozen Cup races. Plus we traveled to two nats in that span. 2700 rules debates. That's about all the stepping up I got in me.

.................think I need a nap.....

rayzerdesigns
06-17-2016, 11:37 AM
So we can count u in Darin for gas.. Fe.. And nitro?? Lol.. It's not an easy task terry for sure..and u can bet Scottsdale vlub will be in bidding for nats in 2018 if all goes well on revamping of pond..maybe in discussion we should do some sort of a combined cup.. Have to race at least 1 class of each. Nitro gas and fe.. Like I said up for suggestions.. This will be a big event.. Sure not everyone will be happy with what classes are offered in all 3..

T.S.Davis
06-17-2016, 12:21 PM
Give out a narbled look'n old wooden stick if you win one class of each fuel type. Call it the staff of diversity. hahaha

Darin Jordan
06-17-2016, 12:29 PM
So we can count u in Darin for gas.. Fe.. And nitro??

I WILL be entertaining GAS Cat, GAS Mono, and perhaps a .12 Hydro and Mono... Those are what most interest me.

RandyatBBY
06-17-2016, 12:59 PM
That's been the issue with the NATs in general the past 4 or 5 years... That's why they ended up back out here on the West Coast again. No other club wanted to step up, or so I was told.

I can understand why. Seems like a lot of work, and, let's face it, FE guys don't seem to travel.

I'll be interested to see what the leadership comes up with. I have zero issues running at a combined event. If I had the time and resources, I'd race FE, Gas, and Nitro, so it's all fun to me.

For 15 years I went to every Nats no matter where it was. Then when I had the Nats I could count the participants that showed up from the mid west and east coast on my fingers. So I understand the travel thing. Now as I am approaching 70tie it is hard to leave the district. So off to work on the "Rolling Ghetto".

T.S.Davis
06-17-2016, 02:01 PM
I feel yer pain Randy. Also appreciate your support over the years.

You took a hit because of who was your front man that year. It's hard to get guys to travel to begin with. If people don't actually want to hang out with you in the first place it makes it even harder to convince them to attend.

I would race with you any time Randy. We've had our disagreements but I have no beef with you at all.

Darin Jordan
06-17-2016, 03:13 PM
I would race with you any time Randy. We've had our disagreements but I have no beef with you at all.

JUST make sure there aren't any Midnight P-Hydro testing in his underwear, while standing shin-deep in the lake...... Some things can't be un-experienced. :hide:

T.S.Davis
06-17-2016, 11:02 PM
Haha. At my very first rave I saw Nayman swim for a boat in his tightly whities in May. May water in MI is.........brisk. Okak that might not quite be accurate. Cold as something. Its a PG forum.

covedweller
06-20-2016, 05:38 PM
Just a little update on the FE nats. There will be raffles every day of the event. First place in P Limited OPC wins a new TFL pursuit with their new all in one drive system. There is a RTR FE whip that is beautiful, and ARR pursuit, a bare Pursuit hull, Three separate all in one drive systems and much more. Our sponsors are really coming through!

Darin Jordan
06-21-2016, 09:49 AM
So... As I often do, I was consulting the rulebook for some information, and I came across the following:


Sect 18.B.3:

"There must be a minimum of three prepaid entries on compatible frequencies to make a class and/or race. There will be no more than eight boats in one heat."


Basically, per the rules... 3-boats makes a class, and that's a Nationals requirement.


Curious how that's going to affect the "5-boat minimum" listed on the entry??

T.S.Davis
06-21-2016, 10:37 AM
I've always wondered about that. What does pre-paid mean? Book doesn't define it. By when? Registration cut off? First heat? "They paid just now so that's pre-paid"

The "pre-paid" is almost always ignored. We all know why it's in there. With people forcing the use of Paypal it's getting better but the old way you could be going into the final days leading up to a race and still not know as the organizer what classes are running because only 2 of the 3 Q hydro guys actually paid. It's maddening. But you've invited people to your race. They've made a commitment to you so you try to be as accommodating as possible. "We just wont worry about that little rule"

Do your host a favor and make clear what your intentions are by paying your entry fees early. Don't pay when you get there if you can avoid it.

We wont run more than 6 boats anymore. Don't care what the max allowed is. On our club pond we rarely go over 5.

RandyatBBY
06-21-2016, 12:34 PM
I feel yer pain Randy. Also appreciate your support over the years.

You took a hit because of who was your front man that year. It's hard to get guys to travel to begin with. If people don't actually want to hang out with you in the first place it makes it even harder to convince them to attend.

I would race with you any time Randy. We've had our disagreements but I have no beef with you at all.

At present I have no front man, Dennis Whitt was the best ever and Dan Chase next. Bill is just a friend and customer and has not raced for me in several years just to be clear.

Peter A
06-22-2016, 04:25 PM
So... As I often do, I was consulting the rulebook for some information, and I came across the following:


Sect 18.B.3:

"There must be a minimum of three prepaid entries on compatible frequencies to make a class and/or race. There will be no more than eight boats in one heat."


Basically, per the rules... 3-boats makes a class, and that's a Nationals requirement.


Curious how that's going to affect the "5-boat minimum" listed on the entry??

Oh dear, is someone making up their own rules? Surely that doesn't happen there too!