Prather Commander / twin TFL P1 drives

[FlogginHarvey]

Long time RC'er and gas boater doing a electric buold for my daughter and I to put around with on the neighborhood pond.

Boat is a 46" Prather / Hyperformance Commander II with twin TFL P1 drives & OSE 150 Amp ESC's on 3S. It will be a slow build to keep my wife happy.

Finally got started with it on Friday night and Saturday. What a PITA cutting SQUARE holes. I am hoping the drives are too high from the running surface. I used some gas boat building rules and scaled it down for the 3/16 prop hub holes. We shall see...

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/FDEA3A8C-00C6-4934-BA48-E939D1C105B2.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/FDEA3A8C-00C6-4934-BA48-E939D1C105B2.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/49504375-28CD-4C31-A94E-4EB4D4B0705E.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/49504375-28CD-4C31-A94E-4EB4D4B0705E.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/882DA527-9C8B-4BE1-A074-8F1DD37D40A8.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/882DA527-9C8B-4BE1-A074-8F1DD37D40A8.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/94038A96-24D7-4F84-A8E7-3A6B200BF7BF.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/94038A96-24D7-4F84-A8E7-3A6B200BF7BF.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/9949D2DE-B9DF-4C4D-B185-97852A256BB8.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/9949D2DE-B9DF-4C4D-B185-97852A256BB8.jpg.html)

[Tamelesstgr]

Those scale drives looks great, good luck with the build.

[FlogginHarvey]

Thanks tamelesstgr!!!

[Brushless55]

Looking forward to this, looks great !

[FlogginHarvey]

Thanks Brushless55! It will be fun now that those darn SQUARE holes are finished. ;) those were a bit of a PITA but not bad with the hardware templates from another member here. HUGE help.

I just ordered up ESC mounts, trim tabs, and some more "builder stuff" from OSE.

[FlogginHarvey]

Well, I feel like I almost got something done tonight...tabs set and mounted. I found a pair of old and unused thru hull water pickups I've been looking for for a while. Did I mention I hate square holes?. Wish I still had more of these lying around. Can't get them anymore. Dig out some stearing servos and started assembled the servo mounts. Still have to assemble and locate the esc mounts, solder things up (yuck), assembling up the battery mounts, finding the CG, getting those installed and plumbing the water lines. Then graphics... That doesn't sound like much.

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/A00458A9-95C1-4C00-BD4A-E6F70D09F5BB.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/A00458A9-95C1-4C00-BD4A-E6F70D09F5BB.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/50965ED7-0A2F-4364-B915-40425C7FEF96.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/50965ED7-0A2F-4364-B915-40425C7FEF96.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/5C8157B8-5805-42BB-AE05-48FB8FDBFC8D.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/5C8157B8-5805-42BB-AE05-48FB8FDBFC8D.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/BE7D5AC6-944E-46F3-A14C-627E4F8CDF9A.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/BE7D5AC6-944E-46F3-A14C-627E4F8CDF9A.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/7F114EE5-557A-429A-9A37-C050818E29FC.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/7F114EE5-557A-429A-9A37-C050818E29FC.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/5C9F5246-520F-44F7-BC91-D76722B4D9A2.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/5C9F5246-520F-44F7-BC91-D76722B4D9A2.jpg.html)

[FlogginHarvey]

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/01EF9EAD-6E37-4577-95C4-031E3A77C4A6.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/01EF9EAD-6E37-4577-95C4-031E3A77C4A6.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/160A3605-2BE2-43C6-BF3D-619157E3FD72.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/160A3605-2BE2-43C6-BF3D-619157E3FD72.jpg.html)

[FlogginHarvey]

here in a link to the handy templates:

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?52551-TFL-Outdrive-Template-and-Gasket&highlight=

I have had some questions on measurements on the drive spacing and required transom area...I will try and get some pics with a tape measure so you guys can see what I have so far. I may have gotten the drives a little too high off of the running surface but won't know until i run it...might take some prop testing to dial in...tried to measure out as if I was running stinger-type drives with the stuffing tube running through the transom.

We shall see...I suppose that is just part of the hobby. Build and test. Build and test. build and test...

[FlogginHarvey]

So, a gas guy needs a little FE help...down to esc and battery layout/CG. I have seen a couple of gas builds/videos with the CG set at 30% on this hull and it was absolutely perfect. Didn't even require tabs.


Is there a rule of thumb regarding the distance between the motors and the ESC? I'm guessing as short as possible but I'm a little worried about how far forward the battering will need to be with all the hardware hanging on the transom. Those drives and ESC's are heavy!!! And going with a 7955 servo servo for each drive...the weight aft is starting to add up quick!

Thanks for everything!!!

[Tamelesstgr]

Wow, that is looking great! Can you possibly mount the batteries in the middle of the hull so they are really low, then mount the ESC's infront of the drives, kind of up the hull a little?
Ken

[Tamelesstgr]

Wow, that is looking great! Can you possibly mount the batteries in the middle of the hull so they are really low, then mount the ESC's infront of the drives, kind of up the hull a little?
Ken

[Checkmateguy01]

That's awesome!!! A twin set up will be in my future!! Dumb question, how do you set up two servos to work together? Can't wait to see how this boat turns out and runs!!

[cmoo]

That's awesome!!! A twin set up will be in my future!! Dumb question, how do you set up two servos to work together? Can't wait to see how this boat turns out and runs!!

as long as the BEC has enough power to move 2 servos, then you can just splice them together or use a "Y" adapter.super simple :-)

[FlogginHarvey]

Thanks for the compliments, guys!!! cmoo, that is what I'm hoping to do - y-harness them together. It works fine at 6v on my MHZ Apache with twin S6 drives. I'm hoping for something similar here. We shall see.

Here a couple of pics of the Apache. It's a BIG 60" hull...

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Treys%20MHZ%2060%20Apache%20Blata%20Twin%20S6/photo_5.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Treys%20MHZ%2060%20Apache%20Blata%20Twin%20S6/photo_5.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Treys%20MHZ%2060%20Apache%20Blata%20Twin%20S6/photo_3.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Treys%20MHZ%2060%20Apache%20Blata%20Twin%20S6/photo_3.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Treys%20MHZ%2060%20Apache%20Blata%20Twin%20S6/photo_1.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Treys%20MHZ%2060%20Apache%20Blata%20Twin%20S6/photo_1.jpg.html)

[FlogginHarvey]

And some updates on a little progress tonight. Drives have the holes all reemed out and M3 screws through, tabs the same. Played around with a little layout and CG...trying to keep things spot on at 30% as per some input from some gas guys that had really nice running Prather Commanders. I hope they are similar. Yes, I was testing CG with 2S packs...just trying to get an idea on layout and if I would hve enough space to keep things near the keel and on the centerline to keep the vertical CG as low as possible. As tamelesstgr pointed out.

Anyone see any potential issues with the below placement??? To far, to close, etc...?

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/4F4FEFC7-7637-4FF3-95AF-0C449C266793.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/4F4FEFC7-7637-4FF3-95AF-0C449C266793.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/09644D23-C5AF-4C20-9762-07D7BA519C67.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/09644D23-C5AF-4C20-9762-07D7BA519C67.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/3F94914E-9F21-415F-A11F-BE5DC1E24E30.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/3F94914E-9F21-415F-A11F-BE5DC1E24E30.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/54A9460E-370D-4132-BCE4-56BD4C4E96C5.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/54A9460E-370D-4132-BCE4-56BD4C4E96C5.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/7FC0209B-7C04-45F6-800C-0054FA677492.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/7FC0209B-7C04-45F6-800C-0054FA677492.jpg.html)

[cmoo]

Super clean. I'm currently building a 46 Prather commander II. surface drive though143602
A pic from yesterday

[Tails Up]

I have a couple questions about your Apache. Is that gear driven where the drive shaft splits into two? And what are the two tanks in the pic? The small one at the upper left and the large aluminum one on the right. Sorry if they seem like dumb questions,I am new to the electric scene. You have some sweet boats,BTW. Joe

[FlogginHarvey]

cmoo - that is awesome!!! Start a build thread on it!!! Love to trade notes! Where are you planning CG?

I bought some 3S packs tonight & WOW what a difference in weight to the 2S packs I tested. Batts are easily 1 1/2 - 2" forward of yesterday at right on 30%!!!

Tails Up - yes it is. That Apache is a REALLY FUN rough water boat!!! MHZ "splitter gear box" to go from a single input to a COUNTER ROTATING twin output. It is overdriven as well as the MHZ drives. The overdrive increases rpm's but causes some torque loss along with all the drive train. It was kind of a pain to find props and I am really close. In very rough water it hauls the mail. In calm it putts around. I need to go slightly smaller or do a Barr Cut to them and I think I'll be there.

The tanks: the small one aft is for the gear box. It gets pretty warm when running any length of time and liquid expands... The front round one is the fuel tank. I'm a gas guy primarily...my wife tells me ten boats is too many. It's probably two boats too many.;). One of the Dumas Scarab KV's needs to go for sure...and I stumbled into an SV43 last winter that needs rigged so I should probably sell the Apache.

[FlogginHarvey]

Here is an FE dumb question: how does everyone setup on/off switch? Can a single one be run well for the two esc setup???

[FlogginHarvey]

Had a little "tinker time" in the garage tonight and was able to make some headway. Confirmed placement on everything for a 30% CG with the 3S batteries and epoxied all but the steering servos. Located and drilled the holes for the steering rods and epoxied in some 3/8" k&s tubing. I hope it works out okay clearance-wise. I've used this ona couple of gas boats and it works great. From what I played around with it looks like it will be fine and the bellows will not be an issue hanging up on the motor mounts. I need to get some threaded rod to mock it up tomorrow. Here are some pics:

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/A1188D9D-FCFC-4CB4-9C51-7F038670252B.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/A1188D9D-FCFC-4CB4-9C51-7F038670252B.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/5D55CD52-4AB0-4BEA-B5B3-B7F399E1F6A9.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/5D55CD52-4AB0-4BEA-B5B3-B7F399E1F6A9.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/BB3FF049-4CED-4F8C-81EE-20680BED51EE.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/BB3FF049-4CED-4F8C-81EE-20680BED51EE.jpg.html)

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/pricetrey/Prather%20Commander%20FE/660EEC91-43BC-4B6B-8EC8-B0D2EB6E1568.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/pricetrey/media/Prather%20Commander%20FE/660EEC91-43BC-4B6B-8EC8-B0D2EB6E1568.jpg.html)

[daveives]

It is dangerous to have each drive move independently because if the servos get wet they can move the drives props together, which chops both up. Please do not ask me how I know! Perhaps a sliding connection between the out drives to preclude mashing together is called for.

[FlogginHarvey]

I hear ya and thanks for the reminder. If you look closely at the Apache I am planning to do a tie rod similar just not 100% sure how I want to do it yet. I stumbled on a Youtube video of a bench test with a pair of the same drives on a 30"ish mono and a couple a pretty impressive running videos. He had a tie bar and I thing he mounted them on the top hole of the gear cover. I just need to confirm the size of that button head screw so I can buy some longer ones and get it test fit...the list grows!;)

[cmoo]

cmoo - that is awesome!!! Start a build thread on it!!! Love to trade notes! Where are you planning CG?

I bought some 3S packs tonight & WOW what a difference in weight to the 2S packs I tested. Batts are easily 1 1/2 - 2" forward of yesterday at right on 30%!!!

Tails Up - yes it is. That Apache is a REALLY FUN rough water boat!!! MHZ "splitter gear box" to go from a single input to a COUNTER ROTATING twin output. It is overdriven as well as the MHZ drives. The overdrive increases rpm's but causes some torque loss along with all the drive train. It was kind of a pain to find props and I am really close. In very rough water it hauls the mail. In calm it putts around. I need to go slightly smaller or do a Barr Cut to them and I think I'll be there.

The tanks: the small one aft is for the gear box. It gets pretty warm when running any length of time and liquid expands... The front round one is the fuel tank. I'm a gas guy primarily...my wife tells me ten boats is too many. It's probably two boats too many.;). One of the Dumas Scarab KV's needs to go for sure...and I stumbled into an SV43 last winter that needs rigged so I should probably sell the Apache.
I do have a build thread on it. Check it out under my profile. Have tons of pics.

[FlogginHarvey]

I found it - fun project!!! You're almost there!

[Brushless55]

Really looking forward to seeing how well this big boat runs with this setup ! :rockon2:

[cmoo]

143760
Just finished my Prather. Getting it out on the water today. I'll let you know how it runs, stoked to see this big hull go

[FlogginHarvey]

Thanks brushless55 - I am too!!! My daughter and I have high hopes!

Sweet cmoo! Can't wait to see how it turned out!!!

[axel]

how is the progress?

[FlogginHarvey]

Hey axel. Been slow this summer because of work travels. No updates yet

[axel]

Thanks for the info

place the lipo not side by side instead behind each other so you drop the gravitycenter a bit.

have you seen this thread?
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?55085-tfl-outdrive-on-CF-mono

so you see how it runs on 4S

[1Chaz]

[QUOTE=FlogginHarvey;664742]I hear ya and thanks for the reminder. If you look closely at the Apache I am planning to do a tie rod similar just not 100% sure how I want to do it yet. I stumbled on a Youtube video of a bench test with a pair of the same drives on a 30"ish mono and a couple a pretty impressive running videos. He had a tie bar and I thing he mounted them on the top hole of the gear cover. I just need to confirm the size of that button head screw so I can buy some longer ones and get it test fit...the list grows!;)[/

these drives are scale m6 just make a small tongue extension out of aluminum fit to cutout on case top use screw in top of gear case to attach to out drive. I used a 4-40 turnbuckle cut down till I can find nice clevis pins. should work like a champ.
Chaz

145936

[Beaux]

Man I love those outdrives looks good.
+

[Stillwet]

is there a build thread on the rest of your boat?
iam about to do a similar build but just the single P1 on a Kyosho Majesty 800S been looking at this outdrive for some time, i refuse to use they're double gear double motor, yet single drive set up. i like what you have done. i wasn't sure about scale looks even though on Steve V's store site says "25-35" and the 800S is 33" i was skeptical at first, and still need to have the boat in hand, i even ordered a handful of parts to convert it either way. when this popped up looking for more info on this Drive my Faith rose tremendously and that i'll give Thanx!

[Checkmateguy01]

is there a build thread on the rest of your boat?
iam about to do a similar build but just the single P1 on a Kyosho Majesty 800S been looking at this outdrive for some time, i refuse to use they're double gear double motor, yet single drive set up. i like what you have done. i wasn't sure about scale looks even though on Steve V's store site says "25-35" and the 800S is 33" i was skeptical at first, and still need to have the boat in hand, i even ordered a handful of parts to convert it either way. when this popped up looking for more info on this Drive my Faith rose tremendously and that i'll give Thanx!

I built a 30" Dumas mono with a single TFL P1 drive, the drive looks almost perfectly scale on the hull! So a 33" hull the drive will look just fine!! I run the boat on 3S, surprisingly quick, handling is so so.

160998 160999 161000 161001 161002

[Alfa Spirit]

Those TFL P1 drives are nice, I don' t understand the setup because this is a big and large hull.

Do you remember this Cigarette ?

http://www.offshore-rc.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2018_08/623919645_Imagetemp4839.thumb.jpg.af954f25ca0575f0 355d82c5eb2525ff.jpg

[Checkmateguy01]

If i remember right that's not a as big of a hull as it looks, i believe 33" or 34". I am in love with that particular boat, i wish that was a production hull that anyone could buy, i know i'd have one in a heart beat!! I say it all the time there just aren't enough scale hulls on the market, most v-bottoms tend to look too toy-ish to me, even if they are state of the art race hulls. I wonder is this boat has seen an water time yet, man i'd love to see how it runs!!!

[Stillwet]

Thank you Checkmateguy01.
i just know how Tamiya and Kyosho gears and transmissions are can you say "Melt Down"?
That Cig. boat picture is a most Handsome Craft. The red drives set that boat off nicely. the P1 i want to use will be Titanium Aluminum color.

[emspjay]

Awesome scale builds!!