Vortex34 Hyper Sport Hydro

[properchopper]

This was sent to me quite some time ago to do a RCBoat Mag build article but some of my other builds were in line first. I finally got a break in the customer build time slot so after some thinking (and with a yen to do a crazy hyperbuild) I scored the absolutely MONSTER TP Power 4070 2Y 2200KV motor and the also huge new Swordfish 240 Pro II and went to work. (As an aside I'll say that the TP Power 4060 2040KV motor with a Swordfish 220A would be wicked fast and very appropriate but a 100mm long motor with the right prop should be a bizarrely wild ride so WTF)

Rather than getting too specific with details, the pictures tell the story (mostly)

On the bench:
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Anything I build that's going to see heavy duty use gets the full Speedmaster 60/90 strut & rudder treatment. Lots of modding must be done to right-size these pieces but the end result is a bulletproof drive system. Rudder raised, shortened and servo arm flipped for "pull to turn right". (these can be ordered from R-S if need be)

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.250 strut stepped down for 3/16"
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To hold the turns at full chat chose I used a Insane Boats turnfin

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hatch should stay on but be removed quickly if need be
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more being loaded right now

[properchopper]

This motor is HEAVY so I wanted to keep it in place. Pulled some spares out, made some partial rails & fabbed some other pieces to keep the motor in place if :Sinking:

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Tight water line distribution

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Had some fun with the outlets

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This is one BIG HONKING ESC - configured the 2P harness for easy plug-in

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CG with batteries in sponsons should work nicely with low roll center from where the batts are parked

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[ray schrauwen]

Are batts hard to get in and out?

[properchopper]

The Swordfish 240II is opto so I used a rx pack I robbed from an old heli;)

To remind me to shut the Rx battery power off (I'm distracted easily when there's donuts in the pits) I used a flashing red LED. To get the effect, close one eye and blink the other on/off. You'll get the picture :biggrin:

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Thanks to Jeff W. (MonoJeff) for making a windshield off of my template - Nice Work Jeff :thumbup1:

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There's a TON of fiddly detail that went into this build but it was therapeutic and FUN (which in California makes it) :

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Tony
rcboatbuild@hotmail.com

[Brushless55]

Looking forward to seeing this one run Tony !
Love the red blinky.

[properchopper]

Are batts hard to get in and out?

There's just enough room to get them in/out without the need to recite any erotic poetry. I'll just wedge some flotation in over them but they're really stuck in place with a full suit of velcro.

[properchopper]

Looking forward to seeing this one run Tony !
Love the red blinky.


Will get wet soon.

LED video for your enjoyment :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1KcGn0da10&feature=yo

[photohoward1]

Let me know how it does I built on just before the end of last season. I'm just going to start figuring it out.

[Brushless55]

Will get wet soon.

LED video for your enjoyment :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1KcGn0da10&feature=yo

That's purdy ! :rofl:

[properchopper]

Let me know how it does I built on just before the end of last season. I'm just going to start figuring it out.


H, I'll report after the first wet. With that motor I'm fairly certain I'll need to stock up on some extra (clean) undershorts .............

[Mxkid261]

Looks awesome I like the aluminum tubing for the cooling lines. I just finished a vortex 24 and its easily my favorite boat I've ever driven

[Darin Jordan]

You finally did it, Tony! Sweet! Looking forward to a report. A couple of guys in our club just bought these as well.

[Doby]

Very nice...needs checkers tough.

[properchopper]

Very nice...needs checkers tough.


OK-Here you go :

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[Doby]

:olleyes:.....................

[785boats]

I've nearly clicked the BUY button a few times on one of these Tony.
You may have just tipped me over the edge.
Well done.

[Fluid]

Before you buy you may want to see how it runs. They look good but they do pack some air with those full length air traps. We have one V34 in our club running a similar/same motor which needs a full width front canard to stay on the water at over 55 mph. Now that could just be a poor setup, and I know that Tony can certainly build and set up a great boat. I'm anxious to see how it runs for him. :smile:



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[properchopper]

Looks awesome I like the aluminum tubing for the cooling lines. I just finished a vortex 24 and its easily my favorite boat I've ever driven

To give credit where credit is due, I first saw the hard lines on the KBB forum. I like how they keep the "spaghetti look" to a minimum. Actually I've seen stainless ones bent at angles to tighten up the water path. A little too tricky for me 'tho.

Another application :

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[properchopper]

I've nearly clicked the BUY button a few times on one of these Tony.
You may have just tipped me over the edge.
Well done.

Thanks! I think that these 34" hulls will be handy for P-Sport (for the most part currently 30" PT's, Whips, & FE's) in choppy conditions

[properchopper]

Before you buy you may want to see how it runs. They look good but they do pack some air with those full length air traps. We have one V34 in our club running a similar/same motor which needs a full width front canard to stay on the water at over 55 mph. Now that could just be a poor setup, and I know that Tony can certainly build and set up a great boat. I'm anxious to see how it runs for him. :smile:



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Jay, The whole time I've been looking at this hull sitting on the shelf the most frequent words that came to mind were :

Boeing 747, Huge Armpits, Air Traps ??, Takeoff Roll:ohmy: With this XXL powerplant maybe the weight will keep it down.

If this works out during testing (and considering that we DON'T run P-Sport in D19,) this could be just the ticket for Texas Monsoon conditions :wink:

[Tamelesstgr]

Tight water line distribution

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Tony, I absolutely love your attention to detail in the layout. Love the hard plumbing lines and the wire keepers inside the wooden rail. :thumbup1: Ken

[properchopper]

Tony, I absolutely love your attention to detail in the layout. Love the hard plumbing lines and the wire keepers inside the wooden rail. :thumbup1: Ken

Thanks Ken. Took lots of :frusty:hours to make it look easy.

[785boats]

Before you buy you may want to see how it runs. They look good but they do pack some air with those full length air traps. We have one V34 in our club running a similar/same motor which needs a full width front canard to stay on the water at over 55 mph. Now that could just be a poor setup, and I know that Tony can certainly build and set up a great boat. I'm anxious to see how it runs for him. :smile:



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I can certainly vouch for the air packing effects of full length air traps.
I built a 1/10 scale (36") Miss Renault hull to run in our EA (4s) Sports Hydro class. It is a very wide hull with full length air traps. It lifted off very easily.
When I repainted it as the Miss Penrite, I cut some relief vents in the front part of the traps. Made a big difference.

Tony.
Most of our racing is in windy & rough conditions too, & the bigger hull does certainly help. Most of the boats are 30" & 33" Whips, ML GP335, 34" Aussie Hydros, Stealth Sport 20, a few Popeye hulls, & a few others I can't remember. The Miss Penrite does very well against them in choppy conditions.

Here's a couple of pics of the vents & a top view to show how wide she is in the hips.

[properchopper]

I can certainly vouch for the air packing effects of full length air traps.
I built a 1/10 scale (36") Miss Renault hull to run in our EA (4s) Sports Hydro class. It is a very wide hull with full length air traps. It lifted off very easily.
When I repainted it as the Miss Penrite, I cut some relief vents in the front part of the traps. Made a big difference.

Tony.
Most of our racing is in windy & rough conditions too, & the bigger hull does certainly help. Most of the boats are 30" & 33" Whips, ML GP335, 34" Aussie Hydros, Stealth Sport 20, a few Popeye hulls, & a few others I can't remember. The Miss Penrite does very well against them in choppy conditions.

Here's a couple of pics of the vents & a top view to show how wide she is in the hips.


I hear you on venting the traps. Back in 2009 when the UL-1 started getting sped up it developed the "death dance" at speed. I reduced the AoA on mine and vented the traps with some "diverter" strakes. Improved the ride substantially eliminating the "dance":laugh:

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[Mxkid261]

To give credit where credit is due, I first saw the hard lines on the KBB forum. I like how they keep the "spaghetti look" to a minimum. Actually I've seen stainless ones bent at angles to tighten up the water path. A little too tricky for me 'tho.

Another application :

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Very cool, what are you using to hold the hard lines to the hull? Just make something up?

[properchopper]

Very cool, what are you using to hold the hard lines to the hull? Just make something up?


Top Secret Close-Up Spy Photo :wink:: (CF scrap, grommet) :thumbup1:

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[785boats]

I hear you on venting the traps. Back in 2009 when the UL-1 started getting sped up it developed the "death dance" at speed. I reduced the AoA on mine and vented the traps with some "diverter" strakes. Improved the ride substantially eliminating the "dance":laugh:

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Nice idea with the diverter strakes. Certainly food for thought.

[Duncan_W]

Looks good, What is the weight.
I just finished mine and with a 4074 and 2ea 2s batts it comes in close to 7.5#.
it's not very quick yet as the warmest it been anywhere after 6 laps is under 100F.
I plan on turning up the timing and using bigger props but one variable at a time and it should get there.

[photohoward1]

Well my conclusion on mine is that the sponsons are all wrong. Way to much angle of attack. Over 50 she waddles like or duck. Very unstable. I am in the process of changing the bottom sponsons. Will update how it she runs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[properchopper]

Looks good, What is the weight.
I just finished mine and with a 4074 and 2ea 2s batts it comes in close to 7.5#.
it's not very quick yet as the warmest it been anywhere after 6 laps is under 100F.
I plan on turning up the timing and using bigger props but one variable at a time and it should get there.


Duncan,

Your setup is sensible for P-Sport Hydro sprints. (Mill + 6 + penalty). I'm sure speed is adequate. I built mine to be sprint-capable plus to have some giggles by dropping in a way overboard power setup - I just HAD to see how the TP Power 4070 2200KV motor worked. Needed to step up to the Swordy 240 VII. Added another .65 lbs from the more appropriate 4060/220A setup. Minus batteries (@another 2.4 lbs for 2X 4S 5000's) the boat weighed in at a jaw-dropping 9.5 lbs. I actually did a bathtub test just to see if it would float.

[Fluid]

My old Aeromarine Sport 21 hull weighed 10.5 lbs ready to go - with 4S2P/5000. It was a winner in rough water.

Still a couple weeks out on my Vortex 34...


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[properchopper]

Well my conclusion on mine is that the sponsons are all wrong. Way to much angle of attack. Over 50 she waddles like or duck. Very unstable. I am in the process of changing the bottom sponsons. Will update how it she runs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed. Like the rtr UL-1, too much AoA. Same when I did a FE conversion to a Miss Vegas V1 which was a nitro rtr with a .21. When the Vegas Deuce replaced it with a .18 (or .19?) Proboat increased the AoA to keep speeds up with less power. Those that duplicated my FE MV with the Deuce encountered the instability situation created by too much AoA and couldn't figure out why mine was stable at warp speed and theirs weren't.

I had a feeling that the Vortex34 would have the same issues (enhanced by the full length air traps). It's AoA is NOT optimum for available P-Sport Hydro lap speeds (nor is the lift potential created by the big armpits & air traps). And H, like we talked about on the phone, mine commenced to do the "Chuck Berry" after 50mph or so. I've re-adjusted strut depth and moved the CG forward as much as allowable given the layout & will re-test as time allows. Then I'll give some thought to surgery but not yet. (Been talkin' to Jay and He's in the Vortex loop also prepping one for the Straightlines this fall. )

[Fluid]

Uh, not for the SAWs Tony, sorry if I wasn't clear. It will be a heat racing boat for rough Texas racing. One in the club already does okay, oddly with no sponson dance. It will blow over though.

To hit 100 mph in P Sport the Vortex 34 would need the traps cut off, etc. Easier to cut 3" off the transom of my Q Sport SAW hydro and make it a P...


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[properchopper]

Uh, not for the SAWs Tony, sorry if I wasn't clear. It will be a heat racing boat for rough Texas racing. One in the club already does okay, oddly with no sponson dance. It will blow over though.

To hit 100 mph in P Sport the Vortex 34 would need the traps cut off, etc. Easier to cut 3" off the transom of my Q Sport SAW hydro and make it a P...


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OOps, Sorry Sir ... darn dain bramage got me cornfused again:confused2:........

[photohoward1]

Surgery has commenced. Opened up the arm pits and redirected the air flow like Tony's UL1. Now working on this sponsons to adding some ride pass to lower that angle of attack. If I can fix it or will be awesome. BTW. O KNOW MINEOS 10 plus pounds. I'm running a lehner 2250 can. 2350 rpm/v. 10k 4s. Way to much power.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[properchopper]

Finally found some time. At the next to the last visit to the lake with the tap-dance still occurring I had two well-known IC guys observe. One said the outside sponson lifted when throttled, and the other commented (verbatum:olleyes:) " You FE guys ALWAYS run your struts TOO FAR UP"

So here's what was changed:

#1: Added ballast in the LF sponson tip

#2: Lowered the strut WAY down & a tad negative to lift the rear (effectively reducing the AoA up front)

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#3: Changed from a 452/2 to a 450/3 for less torque roll

#4: Added an el-bigggie air dam made of dense rubber

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During a midday break at the last SAW I ran it.

Result : No more Macarena, no blowover or sponson lift in spite of the mid-day wind on the course. Yay ; didn't really want to molest the sponsons:wink: One tiny mistake was that, in violation of a most important pit rule I connected only one battery by accident while a local chatted me up so the run was made on 1P Roaringtop 4S 70C 5000 instead of both batteries. Boat might have gone a tad faster with both batteries and could possibly get dance-y but I doubt it. I was very satisfied with how it did while cranking some WOT ovals.

My first intention was to do this build for the Mag article, then put it up for sale since we don't race P-Sport here. I just wanted to get the kinks ironed out first, but the boat is so impressive on the water that I'll likely hang on to it for now :biggrin:

Added rear fins to aid in lateral stability at speeds over 200mph:thumbup1:

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[Fluid]

Tony, you should have asked. I've been running my strut C/L almost 1-1/2" below the hull bottom, and a 1/2" airdam across the front of the tunnel. Put 4 oz of lead in the left sponson tip. With an ABC 2015/17* it rips and is planted. But next I'll have to try the rear fins......



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[LarrysDrifter]

I just bought one of these hulls.
Tony or Jay....where exactly does the turn fin get mounted? At the edge of the flat sponson or farther out? I noticed there's a flat and there's an angled part of the sponson next to the flat part. Also, my hull has an angled line scribed on the sponson transom where the fin mounts. I wouldn't think a fin would get mounted at an angle like that....
Any advice?
I'm using an FE30 fin and bracket.

[properchopper]

Tony, you should have asked. I've been running my strut C/L almost 1-1/2" below the hull bottom, and a 1/2" airdam across the front of the tunnel. Put 4 oz of lead in the left sponson tip. With an ABC 2015/17* it rips and is planted. But next I'll have to try the rear fins......



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Yup !

I'm pretty much on the same page. Didn't have time to try other props. Will soon. If you listen carefully the rear fins actually go Zoom-Zoom as you approach Mach I :wink: (The shock wave while punching through might loosen the sticky tape 'tho:unsure:)

[properchopper]

I just bought one of these hulls.
Tony or Jay....where exactly does the turn fin get mounted? At the edge of the flat sponson or farther out? I noticed there's a flat and there's an angled part of the sponson next to the flat part. Also, my hull has an angled line scribed on the sponson transom where the fin mounts. I wouldn't think a fin would get mounted at an angle like that....
Any advice?
I'm using an FE30 fin and bracket.

Hi Larry,

This may help. I just did what seemed reasonable on the V34 using a rather large Insane Gas/Nitro bracket (and had to grind the bracket smaller to get it to fit). Figured the heavy weight of the boat RtR would need some substantial holding power at WOT in the turn.

Here's an FE30 bracket on an FE30

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Here's the Insane Nitro/Gas bracket on the V34 :

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[Brushless55]

Great job Tony!
tell us again your power setup if you don't mind

[Fluid]

Larry, my fin is in line with the sponson bottom chine like Tony did. I shimmed mine so it is parallel to the hull centerline and bedded it with JB Weld. This is a pretty big boat, the FE30 fin may be on the small side as Tomy points out.


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[properchopper]

Great job Tony!
tell us again your power setup if you don't mind

Todd,

I just HAD to try out the TP Power 2200KV 4070 - 40mm x 100mm !!! The Swordfish 240 seemed like the right ESC to mate it to. Both are HUGE !!!

[LarrysDrifter]

Thank you both for the pointers.

[Brushless55]

Todd,

I just HAD to try out the TP Power 2200KV 4070 - 40mm x 100mm !!! The Swordfish 240 seemed like the right ESC to mate it to. Both are HUGE !!!

Thanks Tony,
Sounds like a real powerhouse!

[Shooter]

Top Secret Close-Up Spy Photo :wink:: (CF scrap, grommet) :thumbup1:

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Man, that is beautiful! The grommets really finish off the masterpiece. :bowdown:

[properchopper]

Man, that is beautiful! The grommets really finish off the masterpiece. :bowdown:

Aw shucks....:biggrin:

[Fluid]

Raced my DF Vortex 34 for the first time with its current setup last weekend, even won a heat. TP 4060/1950, ICE200 A/C ESC and an ABC 2015*17, with an air dam and a deep strut setting (1.5" below the hull bottom). It ran stably at 60 mph into a 10 mph headwind in 1" - 2" chop. Surprised me, although I did have to slow a bit going around the choppy downwind turn - but so did everyone else if they wanted to stay upright. Lots of fun! Now I need to decorate the blank yellow hull...



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[properchopper]

Raced my DF Vortex 34 for the first time with its current setup last weekend, even won a heat. TP 4060/1950, ICE200 A/C ESC and an ABC 2015*17, with an air dam and a deep strut setting (1.5" below the hull bottom). It ran stably at 60 mph into a 10 mph headwind in 1" - 2" chop. Surprised me, although I did have to slow a bit going around the choppy downwind turn - but so did everyone else if they wanted to stay upright. Lots of fun! Now I need to decorate the blank yellow hull...







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That's good to hear:thumbup1: Especially in HOTMBC territory where there seems to mostly be windy/choppy conditions I'd imagine that the 34" P-Sports might fare better than the standard supply of 30" P-Sports. Wave of the future (no pun intended - OK maybe).

Mine will get some more water time soon. Got Vids ?

[ray schrauwen]

Raced my DF Vortex 34 for the first time with its current setup last weekend, even won a heat. TP 4060/1950, ICE200 A/C ESC and an ABC 2015*17, with an air dam and a deep strut setting (1.5" below the hull bottom). It ran stably at 60 mph into a 10 mph headwind in 1" - 2" chop. Surprised me, although I did have to slow a bit going around the choppy downwind turn - but so did everyone else if they wanted to stay upright. Lots of fun! Now I need to decorate the blank yellow hull...



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Would a 1521 1.5D be on par with that TP 4060?

[properchopper]

Would a 1521 1.5D be on par with that TP 4060?

I replaced the 1521 1.5D in my Cheetah with the 4060. Extremely pleased with the results. Truth is the 4070 in my Vortex is probably overkill (but us girls just wanna have fun......:laugh:)

[Fluid]

Ray, the Neu 1521/1.5 D should be comparable. I have one in my Cheetah but haven't tried it in the Vortex. Frankly, the last two new Neus I bought were big disappointments. One just didn't run right and went back to Neu for repair - with about five minutes of run time on it - and cost me another $75. The other seemed to run okay in a SAW setup - for about 30 seconds before the ESC turned into a flaming pile of goo. I figured the setup was too hot so it dropped down in prop size and tried again. After 30 seconds, another pile of goo; the motor had a shorted winding and took out the ESCs. That was one EXPENSIVE motor! After a decade of promoting them, no more Neus for me.

Tony, no vids since everyone was running in the heats or CDing. Maybe next time.....

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[Brushless55]

I replaced the 1521 1.5D in my Cheetah with the 4060. Extremely pleased with the results. Truth is the 4070 in my Vortex is probably overkill (but us girls just wanna have fun......:laugh:)

That's good new, thanks for posting

[ray schrauwen]

I have one in a Cheetah too as well as one more for P mono. Both are more vintage and seem to keep going.

I'm Kinda off TP since that custom motor got nuclear hot and seems to be unusable after magnets got to 180F or worse. It still runs but, it shuts down any esc after a few laps. One motor does not speak for all. If you guys are happy thats great for you and TP. That 80*C rating doesn't leave much room for mistakes. It does make for a tighter wound motor which is a good trade off. Maybe things have improved since 2014 too.

[Fluid]

Initial TP motors were not like they are today. I had two from 3-4 years ago and was not very impressed, they were not much better than a comparable Leopard and ran hotter than my old Neus. A change in management in the past couple years has definately upped their game and I am impressed with my current motors. Too, the TPs have been used to set a number of SAW and two-lap records, so they can take some abuse


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[TheShaughnessy]

Mine will get some more water time soon. Got Vids ?


what are you doing this Saturday after the SCSTA meeting? I'd love to take of video of you running this beast .

[properchopper]

what are you doing this Saturday after the SCSTA meeting? I'd love to take of video of you running this beast .

Hmmmm....(we'll talk on that tel-o-phoneium gadget thingie) Will look into weather forecast.

:spy:BTW :wink: :

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