** New Zelos 48 Brushless Large Scale Cat From Pro Boat**

[Rafael_Lopez]

Hello Everyone,

I wanted to share with you our latest offering. Promo video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HJNncLGYcs

Product Page http://www.horizonhobby.com/zelos-48-inch-catamaran-bl--rtr-prb08017

Key Features:

Powerful 56mm × 87mm 1000Kv, 6 Pole water-cooled high-torque motor
Formidable water-cooled 160A ESC capable of handling up to 8S LiPo power
Authoritative 1/5-scale high-torque servo
Precision hull constructed from triple layered fiberglass
Twist-lock canopy
Aluminum running hardware and metal propeller
Spektrum™ DSMR DX2e transmitter included
High impact graphics help the Zelos stand out
Waterproof electronics
Boat stand included
Needed To Complete

2× 3–4S LiPo Batteries W/EC5™ Connector
Li-Po Battery Charger
4× AA Batteries

SPECS:

Scale: 48-inch
Completion Level: Ready-To-Run
Length: 48 in (1245mm)
Beam: 17.3 in (440mm)
Hull Height: 9.5 in (241mm)
Weight: 12.5 lb (7.5kg)
Motor Size: 6-pole 1000Kv 56×87mm
Speed: 55+ mph with 8S Li-Po
Radio: Spektrum DX2E
Speed Control: Dynamite 160A HV 2S-8S
Hull Material: Fiberglass
Trimscheme Colors: Orange, Gray, White
Propeller Size: 1.4×1.90 and 1.4×2.0
Hull Type: Catamaran
Recommended Battery: 2 × Dynamite Reaction 11.1V (3S) or 14.8V (4S) 5000mAh 50C Li-Po with hardcase and EC5 connector
Drive System: Flex shaft
Steering: In-line rudder with break away
Approximate Assembly Time: No assembly required

I have a bash video that is loading now. I will post it as soon as it's loaded to Youtube.
http://www.proboatmodels.com/Content/ProductStatic/PRB08017/images/gallery/02.jpg
http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/horizonhobby/PRB08017_a1

[paulfromtulsa]

very nice any idea on an eta

[shua]

very nice any idea on an eta
Website says November.

[Rafael_Lopez]

It's on the water today. Shipping boat usually takes 5 weeks, 4 if the water currents are in our favor.

[Rafael_Lopez]

https://youtu.be/TaF10LDTTWs

[Doby]

I'll give you PB guys credit....T Cat, Q Mono...nice line of P boats.... Aquacraft is falling behind.

[Doby]

I asked on the other thread...is there any difference between the Rockstar hull and this one (other than paint)?

[Rafael_Lopez]

Sorry, I missed your answer.

The hull is the same, the canopy is different.

[jonesjj]

I wanted to ask here as I seen you said in another forum a good set up would be running 6S or 8S in parallel, what mA size packs would you recommend for this boat?

[arrover]

Rafael, do you have any pictures of your battery setup and a picture of the bottom?

[bigcam406]

got the email today on this....all i can say is wow:rockon2:

[Rafael_Lopez]

Minimum size packs are 5000mAH@50c. The boat has so much room that you can configure them how you like, for no more than 8s, total voltage. Hope that makes sense.

Here is the bottom.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e21/jAndrew/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps7y2e0wk6.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/jAndrew/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps7y2e0wk6.jpg.html)

I'll post a picture of different battery configurations tomorrow.

[paulfromtulsa]

Rafael do you feel like the 160 amp is sufficient on 8s? Any temp readings from your runs

[Rafael_Lopez]

Yes, it it more than enough. The system runs between 125-135*, on 8s, with the larger of the 2 props it comes with; 1.4x2.0(x452). The system pulls between 120-130 amps, continuous and I've seen speeds up to 57 MPH. It's even more efficient with the smaller 1.4x1.90(x448) with speeds just over 50.

Almost a year ago I got 10 of these ESC to test. I tested all 10, but I am still running the original one I started testing with. We rate our ESCs at 80% of their total amperage, so 160 is the max recommended continuous amperage. I do not recommend running the ESC at more that 160amps.

The ESC has over volt and over amp protection. It will shut down if it sensed more than 8s or over 160 continuous amps. The max KV is 1200 on 8s.

[rw442]

Awesome boat going to be saving up for this one.

[704Authentic]

Great!
:wink:

[gfmarlin88]

I'm interested in future purchase of this craft. I'm concerned with how available parts will be though. I'm currently waiting over a month for a canopy for my voracity (went submarine and folded it in half first run out). I was told they'd be available by mid-end September and now we're here and still no eta.

[Rafael_Lopez]

I'm interested in future purchase of this craft. I'm concerned with how available parts will be though. I'm currently waiting over a month for a canopy for my voracity (went submarine and folded it in half first run out). I was told they'd be available by mid-end September and now we're here and still no eta.
Whatever the excuse is for not having them yet, it doesn't make your situation better. Do you still have your damaged canopy? If so, I can send you a canopy from one of my sample boats that will allow you to end the Boat season. At least this way you can continue running.

It has no lock or pins. You'd have to make sure you tape very well, or you can pull the pins and lock off your old one. PM me if you're interested in having me send this to you.

[rw442]

Rafael that is the best customer service i have ever heard just wanted to let you know that.

[Rafael_Lopez]

Rw442, Thank you. Good products sell themselves. Good customer support creates life long customers.

We have several Core Values. My favorite is: "Respect.-We are humble and treat others the way we should like to be treated."

I do no more than what I'd expect any company do for me.:biggrin:

[pistol18]

[QUOTE=Rafael_Lopez;643454] If so, I can send you a canopy from one of my sample boats that will allow you to end the Boat season. At least this way you can continue running.


That is an awesome gesture! Zelos looks great, I've got some large gas cats and monos but have always wanted a big FE cat!!

[ray schrauwen]

Why didn't they put the strut on the transom?

[Rafael_Lopez]

Long winded answer. Grab some popcorn, lol.

The first boat did have the strut on the transom. We all know the strut is an extension of the hull. It can either hurt or help the attitude, if the boat carries enough weight to reap the benefits. The original hull, which Darin now has, had a sized up version of the 29" cat hardware. Beautiful hardware. The boat bounced horribly, and grabbing more than 1/2 throttle was impossible without it flipping backwards. The unwritten rules say that it you need more than 4* of negative to keep the nose down, you have a set up problem. Well what I had was a boat that needed at least 3 more pounds of weight to keep the nose down, with that gear. This presented a problem with the cost of the hull. Yes, it would have been bulletproof, but far too heavy. requiring more than a 160a ESC.

Placing the strut in the same location as the Rockstar 48 lifts the transom, allowing the boat's attitude to be more predictable to CG changes. It no longer blew over backwards over 1/2 throttle. I've had it as high as 62 mph on 8s. With this strut there is no real positive angle adjustment, because the boat doesn't need it. It does however react well to the, up to, 2 degrees to negative angle the strut allows. It weights around 16 pounds with no batteries. It's the same thickness hull as the Rockstar 48, but is much lighter because of the difference in the power train.

Hope that helps explain why.

If it were a narrower hull all this wouldn't have presented such a problem during development, but then again, it wouldn't handle as well as it does. Just like the 29" hull, full throttle turns around the buoy are no problem. Our hulls tend to "drift" around corners at WOT, rather than hook, and roll. I mention this because a wide tunnel hull will have more lift, by design, which is what I was fighting during development with the strut on the back.

If the boat does well and it eventually needs to revamp, I will experiment with square bottom struts which provide more lift and act kind of like a trim tab. Worst case, I'll square off the bottom of this strut, as a running change, and call it good.

[Brushless55]

Great job Rafael !

[Doby]

Our hulls tend to "drift" around corners at WOT, rather than hook, and roll. .

I was running a FE Rockstar 48 conversion today and it certainly "drifts" around the corners...takes some getting used to at first.

[paulfromtulsa]

Rafael i have a friend with the rockstar boat that wants to trade me hulls when the zelos comes in. Will the electric and gas stuff swap Pretty easily?

[ray schrauwen]

Interesting, thank you for the answer Rafael!

[arrover]

Rafael, what size flex is in the Zelos? What size prop shaft?

[Rafael_Lopez]

1/4 flex with prop shaft machined down to 3/16; strut is 1/4" prop shaft stub is 3/16". I decided to go this route because most 1/4" props are way too much for this boat. The motor would have been 1/2 the KV powered by 12s/+. This opened up options to a unlimited assortment of propellers and lowed me to keep voltage at 8s.

[Xtreme Thunder]

Awesome! The Catamaran looks great! I am loving these larger offerings recently! Great work!

This hobby is seriously beginning to cut into my 'hot rod' restoration allocated funds! Haha!

So, Rafael,... any comment on a 48" Deep V based on the Voracity?! I am extremely impressed with the 36" hull, but a 48" offering would be able to handle some pretty serious chop! Seems as though, for me anyway, the R/C boat season is pretty much over, and I am itching to get the Voracity back on the water!

[Rafael_Lopez]

Thanks, it means a lot that I'm able to bring some progress to the brand.

As far as a larger V, well as of now I hadn't been asked to develope anything, yet. The issue I see with it is that it would need to be lower KV and higher voltage, which presents an issue for the "average" consumer. But, you never know. I say this because it's typical that Vs draw more current with an equal system from a cat being that they're cutting through water displacing it, over a cat riding over it. Could you imagine the Voracity 36 internals in a 36" cat? Would easily do close to 60.

[shua]

So do you have a BlackJack/Miss Geico 36 in the works?? :rockon2:

[Rafael_Lopez]

Unfortunately, no.

[Cottageboater]

Two new very nice cats, two new very nice Vs, any chance a hydro is next? It has been a while. Keep up the great work.

[Rafael_Lopez]

What I can tell you is that I have free reign to develope or look for viable new products that will suit the Pro Boat line, and will be successful. This means possibly sourcing products from vendors that hold high standards and can deliver what they promise. But, sometimes the limiting factor is bringing out new products that will impact existing ones.

Trust me, I'd love to bring all the requests that I get to market ASAP. But sometimes, it doesn't make since to saturate the market with every product possible, at one time. There is a lot of inner structure within Horizon that limits products and their release.

In little words, patience. I'm working on many good products to come. I'm listening to what you and the market, as a whole, is asking for. ;)

[Xtreme Thunder]

Thanks, it means a lot that I'm able to bring some progress to the brand.

As far as a larger V, well as of now I hadn't been asked to develope anything, yet. The issue I see with it is that it would need to be lower KV and higher voltage, which presents an issue for the "average" consumer. But, you never know. I say this because it's typical that Vs draw more current with an equal system from a cat being that they're cutting through water displacing it, over a cat riding over it. Could you imagine the Voracity 36 internals in a 36" cat? Would easily do close to 60.

Thank you for the reply good Sir! Indeed, with all things equal, the Deep V's do require higher voltage for the increased resistance inherent with the Deep V design.


So do you have a BlackJack/Miss Geico 36 in the works?? :rockon2:

Oh man, you took the words right out of my mouth for my next inquiry! This is what I was thinking was going to be the next release. Seriously though, a 36" Catamaran would be awesome.

42" Deep Vee...okay, I'll stop!..., however, again, the Voracity 36" is an excellent size to handle some not perfect waters and I can't tell you enough how much of a blast that thing is to run with a little chop!

[4343]

will you make a 36 inch cat??

[Rafael_Lopez]

Not plans of as of now.

[paulfromtulsa]

Rafael Is it the motor or esc that limits the boat to that small of a prop? Thanks

[Rafael_Lopez]

Rafael Is it the motor or esc that limits the boat to that small of a prop? Thanks
Quite a few actually.

I didn't include a larger prop or one with more pitch because I wanted this boat to be just fun enough, but not blow up after a few runs; out of the box. I don't like to run any ESC with no buffer. I could have brought the boat to market with a label that said 60+ on the box but that would have been nearing the ESC's 160A continuous limit. Not something I was willing to do. I rather leave 30-40 amps on the ESC for people to play with props. I think I've said this before, no manufacturer label's their ESCs at their maximum rating. We rate them at 80% of maximum, leaving room for the ESC to thermal before blowing up. So if a customer wanted to push the ESC to 160a continuous, they could, at their own risk, knowing it's running at 80% of its total amperage and risking burning it up. The ESC temps at 102* and the motor at 101*. It's not a hot system by any means.

The limiting factor that I found was batteries, honestly. I ran a X453/3 blade prop the other day to see if I could finally blow up the ESC. The ESC never went in to thermal protection mode but my LiPo temps did go up by 20-30* and the ESC and motor got up to 135*.Of course, I wouldn't recommend anyone doing this without knowing you are pushing the system beyond what we intended.

The motor we know is good to 10S. The ESC is too, but we limited it to 8s. It wont arm with anything over 8s.

That may not be the exact answer you were looking for, but I feel I have given you enough information for you to decide what might be the limiting factor if it were your boat.

[Brushless55]

Good to know you put headroom into this system for better life and for us to play with :rockon2:

[Rafael_Lopez]

We are definitely listening to our customers and learning from our previous experiences, coupled with the fact that our electronics are being proven to be far superior than anything we have used in the past.

[jonesjj]

Great explanation Rafael, I think you said it pretty clear and we can now play at our own risk with some example of what you have done already.

[Tunda]

Can you guys make another jetski please!

[Rafael_Lopez]

Boats landed yesterday. Checked them this morning, back orders will ship out ASAP.

[paulfromtulsa]

Mine will be here Tuesday!

[Rafael_Lopez]

Mine will be here Tuesday!

Awesome!:banana: Please let us know what you think.

[paulfromtulsa]

Just got the boat and the you can fit a person inside the box. The box is huge!

[arrover]

We need more info than that Paul!!! Congrats!

[paulfromtulsa]

We need more info than that Paul!!! Congrats!

Haha I didn't even get a chance to open the box yet. But I can tell you that i already have a leopard 56110 950kv motor and mgm 250amp esc for it!

[arrover]

Geesh! You're really going to get after it! Can't wait to watch your progress.

[paulfromtulsa]

Geesh! You're really going to get after it! Can't wait to watch your progress.

I'm going to run it stock this weekend and GPS it. I won't install new motor and esc until I get my new props in I ordered an abc2115 for it.

[paulfromtulsa]

Ran the zelos today with the 1.4 x 2.0 prop through 2 battery packs. The highest speed i got was 53 mph motor temp was 72 and esc was 90. With those temps it looks like I can definitely prop up. Should i stay with 1.4 pitch props?

[paulfromtulsa]

Ran the boat with a prepped abc 1915 and got 51mph. I got a 2215 that i will test on sunday

[paulfromtulsa]

Ran the zelos today with a abc2215 and got 60mph!

[kfxguy]

Ran the zelos today with a abc2215 and got 60mph!

That's a pretty big jump! Good stuff, I wouldn't expect the 1915 to do well on that hull anyways. Don't hurt to try it tho!

[arrover]

Nice! Take some pictures!

[IRON-PAWW]

Definitely another vote for a 45in+ hydro hull. Been looking for ages for an option that won't break the bank. As the larger mono and cat hulls are better for standard lake chop - so is this the case for hydros. So many days are just no good for my 30in hydro but the larger petrol guys have a blast.

[Banzee]

Can't wait to see some video !!

[Rafael_Lopez]

Ran the zelos today with a abc2215 and got 60mph!

That's great to hear! Is this still with the stock electronics?

[paulfromtulsa]

That's great to hear! Is this still with the stock electronics?

Yes Rafael still stock electronics. Esc was 108 and motor was 80 degrees after a battery pack. I'm not sure how much more speed the zelos can take at 60mph the wind wants to get under the hull and flip it. I couldn't go full throttle for more than a couple of seconds. When the water is warmer I will be more daring. Just don't feel like getting into 50 degree water to fetch my boat lol

[Rafael_Lopez]

I'm really glad to see that you're giving the stock electronics a chance, allowing them to prove themselves.

As far as speed, I've had that hull over 65 mph, in early testing. I don't know where you're placing your batteries but that's why I made the trays go so far in to the hull; to allow for the weight it be shifted forward as the nose gets lighter with higher speeds. Of course, 8s, 2P helps settle the boat at speeds over 60 too.

Glad to see you're having fun, but I hope you never swim to retrieve your boat.

[paulfromtulsa]

I'm really glad to see that you're giving the stock electronics a chance, allowing them to prove themselves.

As far as speed, I've had that hull over 65 mph, in early testing. I don't know where you're placing your batteries but that's why I made the trays go so far in to the hull; to allow for the weight it be shifted forward as the nose gets lighter with higher speeds. Of course, 8s, 2P helps settle the boat at speeds over 60 too.

Glad to see you're having fun, but I hope you never swim to retrieve your boat.

I have my batteries almost as far up front as they can go. What is 2p?

[hobby_man]

I have my batteries almost as far up front as they can go. What is 2p?
(2p) 2 parallel

[montymike]

:tiphat:Enjoy the proboats I have, was hoping for a 36 inch cat not going to be made by the looks of it nice job but won't buy this boat...

[Rafael_Lopez]

:tiphat:Enjoy the proboats I have, was hoping for a 36 inch cat not going to be made by the looks of it nice job but won't buy this boat...

Please share this inside information about a 36 inch cat never going to be made.........

[kfxguy]

Please share this inside information about a 36 inch cat never going to be made.........

This must be a hint........ ;)

[Rafael_Lopez]

:spy: Lol. Make what you want of my comment, but unless you hear it from me, never is not an option. ;)

[montymike]

Please share this inside information about a 36 inch cat never going to be made.........
Ok maybe I was a little quick with my thoughts. Makes sense that a F.E. boat being made from a previous hull good business, boat is beautiful just to big for my needs.

[Rafael_Lopez]

Ok maybe I was a little quick with my thoughts. Makes sense that a F.E. boat being made from a previous hull good business, boat is beautiful just to big for my needs.

Hope the next one isn't too fast, if that's even a thing.:rockon2:


Already said too much.....

[DRMead]

Rafael,Are there any plans to offer the Zelos hull in any other colors??

[montymike]

Hope the next one isn't too fast, if that's even a thing.:rockon2:


Already said too much.....
Nope, just the 48" would take to big of turns for the pond I use.

[Rafael_Lopez]

Mike, I'm just giving you a hard time, in good fun.

DRMead, not at this time.

[montymike]

:biggrin:

[rilo64]

I know this set up can ran 8cell but what can the motor take Can it take like 12cell

[kfxguy]

I know this set up can ran 8cell but what can the motor take Can it take like 12cell

I don't think it would be a good idea to try it. These big can motors like this are usually reliable to about 30k rpm which on 8s is about that rpm. You could push it to 10s if you wanted to chance it as I'd imagine it may hold up for a few passes. I think you'd be better off putting a heftier esc in it and more prop if you desire more speed. 9s may not be too bad on it but Raphael likes to push things and if it's setup to run 8s, that's probably it's reliable limit.

[Rafael_Lopez]

We never tested anything over 8s on the motor. Like Travis mentioned, I wouldn't recommend it.

[rilo64]

You said you had one @ 65 Can you tell me what you did & part numbers

[Rafael_Lopez]

Rilo64, I did get a boat that fast during the "push it to burn it" testing of the ESC and motor. I think I ran a 56 or 58mm x4 series prop with the stock electronics to get there. Not something I would recommend though, as there are far more efficient ways of getting there. I never burned and ESC but I did manage to get it in to thermal cut off plenty times and the LiPos also got extremely warm. What I'd recommend if you want to run a large prop for more speed is working it, or having it worked. Back cutting, detounging, and sometimes both, works well for getting the benefit without over amping the system.

[DRMead]

Mike, I'm just giving you a hard time, in good fun.

DRMead, not at this time.

Rafael,Thank you sir.

[rilo64]

What is the best prop for this boat on 8cell for the best mph, I new to boats so I need part number Thanks

[Brushless55]

would this boat run a 6 lap heat race on 8s1p 5000mah ?
and how much left in the packs if so ?
thanks

[rilo64]

What would make this boat go side to side @ top mph. I had 2- 4cells all the way to the front with the 1.4x2.0 prop on it.

[Rafael_Lopez]

You are describing what sounds like prop walk ,which usually is a sign of too much torque from the prop. The larger prop was never really intended to be run on 8s, though the ESC can handle it quite easily. It's intended for 6s. If you are looking for more speed while using the smaller prop and prevent prop walk, you can always raise the timing, as long as your LiPos can handle the extra load, and you feel comfortable doing so. The timing on that ESC is set at 7.5, which you can change to 11.5, but no more than 15*.

If the larger prop is not balanced, it could also be causing problems via too much vibration. If you have the means to, detounguing it of relief cutting it, sometimes both, will do away with what you are experiencing.

It's really quite a light hull for its size, so it doesn't take much to upset the balance. If your set on running larger props to get more speed out of it, I suggest adding some weight to it to help keep it planted so that the torque from the prop doesn't effect it so easily.

[98Corvette]

Can someone do me a favor and give me the Zelos 48 box dimensions and possibly the weight of the box with boat please? I may be purchasing one slightly used and need this info to calculate the shipping cost. Thanks in advance

[Rafael_Lopez]

Weight of boat and box is about 20-22 pounds, depending if they are using both the shipping box and the inner carton. Box is 57"x23"x15"

[Brushless55]

would this boat run a 6 lap heat race on 8s1p 5000mah ?
and how much left in the packs if so ?
thanks

would like to know if 5000mah would last a 6 lap NAMBA race
thanks

[98Corvette]

Will this boat/esc work on a 7S setup? The chart in the manual for the esc doesn't show a 7S configuration but does show auto detect. I know 7S is not common, but since I already a pair of 3S 5000mah 65c I was thinking of buying a pair of 4s 5000 65c and run a 3s+4s in series on one side and another pair on the other side then run them in parallel to the esc for 10000mah 7s. Will this work? Will it detect 7s?

[Rafael_Lopez]

The specifications for the ESC say 2-6s. Anything over 6s will throw the ESC in to safe mode; it will not arm. Auto detect refers to the cells the ESC is rated for, which is why 7s is not on the list.


*Edit*
When I answered the question I did not realize this was in regards to the Zelos 48. I got the notification via email, blindly clicked the link, and answered the question thinking this was a question regarding the Zelos 36. My apologies.

[paulfromtulsa]

The specifications for the ESC say 2-6s. Anything over 6s will throw the ESC in to safe mode; it will not arm. Auto detect refers to the cells the ESC is rated for, which is why 7s is not on the list.

The esc will work on 8s Rafael. This is the zelos 48 thread not 36

[Rafael_Lopez]

Oh, my bad! I get my Zelos mixed up, sorry.:unsure:

Yes, the Zelos 48 ESC will work on 7s with auto detect. It will detect 4-8s.

[98Corvette]

OSE8 connector with red housing or Castle 6.5 polarized green connectors are what I'm considering...

[Rafael_Lopez]

Anything larger than the stock 5mm bullets will work just fine. Looks like you are on the right track, though I've never used either connectors. But I'm sure they will both be up to the duty.

[Rafael_Lopez]

Some round and round practice with the Zelos 36 on a NAMBA course. I was able to hold full throttle through the turns, only letting off enter in the turn to let the boat settle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7RNM8sjKtk

[IRON-PAWW]

I just picked this boat (Zelos 48) up locally. Extremely Nice!

At the Moment I have some 6S 5500mah Revolectrix silver label Lipo's to put in it. So - If I put on the larger of the props that came with it, that will be better for 6S running?

I take it the boat will perform much better at 8S with a prop to suit?

What 6S props could I try? Seeing as I only have 6S batts at the moment. I have a bag of props on my shelf and Just wondering what I could shoot for. I'll see if anything I have might fit the bill. Got a load of Octura stuff (m445, M545) etc etc and then a load of CNC stuff.

EDIT:
Props I found I had.

Octura X646/3
Octura M447
Octura M445
Octura M545

CNC 4814 - seems to be the closest match to the bigger prop that comes in the box

[Rafael_Lopez]

The larger prop is for 6s. This is noted in the manual. If you want to look at the manual on line, it is available on the product site under resources, or manuals and support.

The boat comes with a 48 and a 52mm prop, both are 1.4 pitch. The boat comes stock with the smaller prop because most people will run 8s on it. With lower voltage, the amperage decreases, which means you can prop it higher. The props you listed are too small, considering the props the boat comes with. The 646/s may be a good choice for 8s, though I haven't tried it though. I've tried a detongued 450/3 and its too much prop on 8s. The boat prop walks horribly.

If you end up propping too high, the boat will let you know. It will start to prop walk horribly, whipping the back end side to side as it's running.

Hope that helps! :)

[IRON-PAWW]

Thanks Rafael. That sure does help. I did actually find the info on the props in the manual when I sat down to read every section properly. Is there instructions on programming the ESC with a transmitter? Looked through what I have and can't see it.

My 52mm prop came a little rough, with some lumps and bumps on it. Luck of the draw I guess but working on props has always been decidedly hit and miss for me. Will try working on it and see where I end up. Might just see if I can get a CNC prop for it too just in the beginning.

Just so I know what path will be better to go down for me getting extra gear for this boat. Does it ultimately perform better on 8S? Or - with correct prop choice, there's not much difference between 8S and 6S?

I'll need a few extra LiPo's to go with what I've got either way.

So if I'm looking at 6S initially - can I go any more aggressive than that 52mm 1.4 pitch? Or not recommended? Just thought if I'm ordering props anyway....

Cheers muchly for your help.

[IRON-PAWW]

All right! So Rafael won't be drawn on how you should run the boat beyond the included 48mm prop on 8S and the included 52mm prop on 6S. Fair enough. Beyond that you make your own decisions on how to prop the boat, and then Rc boating community discusses what they find right here. :spy:

So I bought this boat because it is frequently too windy where I live to get a decent run with my smaller electrics. The 36in Ariane I run does well but beyond that it can be tough going for my small 30-ish inch hulls. Plus - my local RC boating club is filled with much larger gas powered boats which fairly tear up the water and can power through the windy conditions. So - the truth is that electrics are generally sneered at in my neck of the woods. Most people here regard them as small, unpowerful boats that gotta get out of the way when the gassers arrive.

I aim to change all that.

I've looked at larger hulls for some time. But the honest truth is that most require pretty serious work before they even get near the water - unless you have the hull built for you at reasonable expense. The skill and time required to build such boats is something I just do not have. Maybe when I retire it'll be different, but until then.....

So when news of the Zelos hit I was pretty interested. When I pulled this boat out of the box, all I had to do was attach the rudder. Done. Well...... mostly, there were a few things. The boat could have been run there and then - with the right battery pack connectors. But ain't it always the case that your connectors never fit the boat you just bought. So I also spent time soldering 5.5mm bullets onto the ESC. In fact I made a wiring harness that will allow me to run 2 packs in parallel. You buy a boat like this - the soldering iron comes out -we all know it.

That done I immediately went out and ordered CNC replacement props for the ones included in the with the boat. I'll be looking into 6S first as I have some Revolectrix 70c 5500mah 6S packs that I currently don't use. Seemed a shame. So I've gotten a 5214 (straight replacement) and a 5314 (bit bigger) to test with initially. Will report back after this weekend.

Now - second thing. The cooling loop on my boat was hooked up backwards. That is - the motor line went to the top of the motor first, then exited from the lower fitting. Big no no as we all know. So watch for that if you get this boat. Even then - as you will see in the 2nd pic below - the fittings aren't aligned for maximum cooling benefit. The higher fitting on the jacket should be at the highest possible point - but it isn't. So yeah - watch that.

My loopback hose on the ESC was badly kinked. So I had to swap it out with some spare I had.

The Zelos has one water pickup through the rudder - and one under-hull pickup. Admit I am skeptical of the under-hull pickup but time will soon tell.

Overwhelmingly though - I am struck by the build quality out of the box with this boat. How many times have you bought an off the shelf ARTR boat and grimaced at some shoddy glassing job, or something out of alignment, or something that broke in transit, or a hatch that doesn't quite fit...... You all know the list. This is a different story. It's the first out of the box hull that I truly feel can go straight on the water. No mods necessary. No strengthening necessary. No cheapa$$ part swapout necessary. One look reveals the hull is rock solid and factory strengthened. Rap your knuckles against it. Solid thud. Is good.

The hardware is good quality. Many off the shelf boats have hardware that rattles like a poorly-made turn of the century horseless carriage that went across the Sahara six times. Read - a rudder that either isn't true or just rattles big time on it's hinges. Not here. The hardware on the Zelos looks several grades above that. The steering servo even just appears up to the job, also clearly several grades above the stuff I have used before. Proof will be in the pudding though.

Fit and finish is really next level - at least for me it is. You can just see that the hull has been well made. The right amount of glue where there is glue. Hardware that sits in proper alignment and is good quality gear. Good solid and clean glasswork. Properly fitting hatch. You really get a sense that the boat has been designed properly - and then that tight controls have been put in place through the manufacturing process.

The only part of the design that gives me pause is the hatch fastening system. Why couldn't we have screws at the front as well as the rear? One decent flip that hits the hatch just right and it'll be off, or so it appears to me. As it is I'll be taping the hatch - especially at the front.

Will run the boat on 6S for a while and see what I can get out of it.

Rant over :thumbup1: :thumbup1:


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Zelos_1_zpsb8uioslg.jpg


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Zelos_2_zpsf9qel0gc.jpg


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Zelos_3_zpshvculccf.jpg

[Rafael_Lopez]

Thanks Rafael. That sure does help. I did actually find the info on the props in the manual when I sat down to read every section properly. Is there instructions on programming the ESC with a transmitter? Looked through what I have and can't see it.

My 52mm prop came a little rough, with some lumps and bumps on it. Luck of the draw I guess but working on props has always been decidedly hit and miss for me. Will try working on it and see where I end up. Might just see if I can get a CNC prop for it too just in the beginning.

Just so I know what path will be better to go down for me getting extra gear for this boat. Does it ultimately perform better on 8S? Or - with correct prop choice, there's not much difference between 8S and 6S?

I'll need a few extra LiPo's to go with what I've got either way.

So if I'm looking at 6S initially - can I go any more aggressive than that 52mm 1.4 pitch? Or not recommended? Just thought if I'm ordering props anyway....

Cheers muchly for your help.

Iron Paw, forgive me for not answering this sooner. I probably got an email alert regrading your post and must have lost track of it. I wasn't purposely ignoring your post.

Does it perform better on 8s, well its faster, which I'm sure you can imagine. I saw speeds between 45-48mph with the large prop on 6s, and between 50-58mph with the small prop on 8s; props all stock unbalanced and un sharpened. If I remember right amp draw at 8s is around 115-125 amps with the small prop. Amp draw with the large prop on 6s was about 100 amps. Being that it comes with a 160amp ESC you can see how 6s allows you more room to play with props of different diameter and pitch. The drawback on 6s, that that the packs get warmer. I found that the boat ran best on 6s with with either 2, 6s packs on either side in parallel or 4, 3s packs total. 2, 3s packs in the boat, at least the ones I was testing with, seemed to get warmer than I like though they didn't puff; nearing 130*.

You will find that stock, on either voltage, the electronics run very cool for a boat that size. It is a rather efficient system and the boat is very light. There is about 5mm of adjustment in the strut which will allow you to adjust some negative angle if the nose rides too light and the bounce bothers you, on flat water. The boat really shines and runs very smooth in rough water. I usually just leave the strut level and run my packs as far forward as I can get them.

You also have the option of 3 blade props. 50mm and smaller should fit the boat well. I find that 3 blade props on a cat tend to give them the lift they sometimes lack and makes them ride very smooth over calm water. a 450/3 is too much for 8s, but works well with 6s. Remember that you can also raise the timing on the ESC if you want an inexpensive way to get a bit more RPM. The default setting is 7.5*. You can go as high as 15*, as long as your packs can handle it. M series props will help with some prop walk if the prop is too large and relief cutting should help as well.

I don't find your last post as a rant. Its actually a very well written observation, from a customers perspective.

If you need anything else in specific, its sometimes better to PM me. I make myself very available on the net, via forums and Facebook, and I get a lot of customer contact. Sometimes things get by me and I forget to reply; I don't ignore people on purpose. Hope you understand.

[gfmarlin88]

I'm in the process of deciding which new summer toy I'll be purchasing; zelos 48 or zelos 36. A few things that steer me away from 48 that I'd appreciate some feedback on would be the small front pin to hold on the giant canopy vs 2 lock screws like being used on the 36's canopy. I'm curious as to why every video I watch the 48 is bouncing during wide open operation vs straight, smooth travel across the water as the 36 zelos and my 36 voracity perform.

[Rafael_Lopez]

Sorry, double post.

[Rafael_Lopez]

I'm in the process of deciding which new summer toy I'll be purchasing; zelos 48 or zelos 36. A few things that steer me away from 48 that I'd appreciate some feedback on would be the small front pin to hold on the giant canopy vs 2 lock screws like being used on the 36's canopy. I'm curious as to why every video I watch the 48 is bouncing during wide open operation vs straight, smooth travel across the water as the 36 zelos and my 36 voracity perform.
As to the pin and locks, regardless of the canopy retention system in any of our boats, we always reccomend you use tape to help keep the hatch in place, especially during a crash. We are one of very few RTR companies to offer locks on a fiberglass boat. Most others rely only on tape. The latch system adds extra security, but even I don't rely just on the locks, with no tape, on any of our boats. Tape is part of the completion guide found on the Pro Boat website for every one of our FG boats. Our tape is equivalent to electrical tape because it provides great grip and doesn't tend to damage the finish. Always tape your hatch.

On the twin, regardless of having 4 locks, we still reccomd using tape around the hatch opening. Crashes can be brutal over 60.

Why does one run flatter than the other? The Zelos Twin's power to weight ratio is more balanced, especially with 4 packs in it. The 48, for its size, is very light, even with 4 packs. The hull is larger and wider and can pack more air in the tunnel. This combination causes it to bounce, under certain conditions. From my testing, I've found that it tends to bounce more on calm water where the air under the tunnel can't escape. Choppy water allows the air to escape out the side and release some of the air that causes the lift. Adding some negative angle to the strut can help, as well a battery placement. Mine only bounces when I run across my own wake on calm water. But thI bounce is kinds of a trade off for how the boat corners. A narrower hull would run smoother, but we all know they can't turn on power, the way our boats can. I've found that the bounce is something most people overlook, or don't even pay attention to, once they drive the boat and see how well it handles in the turns. Look at 1:1 offshore racing videos. Even real race boats have a little bounce. ;)

The twin can bounce too, if the CG is too far back. This is how you know to move your packs forward, or add 1-1.5mm of negative angle in to the struts to lift the transom. The bouncing is all tuning, IMO. If your Pro Boat cat is bouncing, it's telling you the CG is off or it needs more negative strut angle.

A prop can all help with bounce. 3 blade props tend to have more lift which smoothes out the boats ride attitude.

Why doesn't the Voracity bounce? Because of the lack of the tunnel. A badly set up V will porpoise instead, when something is off.

Hope that helps.

[gfmarlin88]

Thanks for the quick response! In your opinion, with me already having the deep v 36, which boat would be a better contrast and more enjoyable for pond/river running. Already have 4 3s packs for the voracity. Seems like id have to buy 4 more for a few runs in the 36 twin or buy a couple 4s and have 2 sets of 3s to run in the 48.

[Rafael_Lopez]

If you already have 3s packs, I'd suggest to get the 36 twin. This way you can use all your batteries between the 2 and not have to buy 4 cell packs for the 48.

[Xtremespeed]

I would really like to have the Zelos 36. All the info you have provided looks awesome. I already have a BJ29 and a HK Flowmaster so I hated to buy something so similar. It was between the Voracity and the Zelos 48 to add some variety. My new Zelos 48 will be here tomorrow. Can't wait.

[IRON-PAWW]

Ok - well I never ended up running 6S. Was damn hot here 40C (104 Farenheit) on the day I planned that run so the club meet was canned. In the meantime I got a few extra 4S batts allowing me to run 8S.

Boat ran pretty well and I got a Max of 80.2 Km/h (49.8 Mph). I got a fair bit of bounce though which I think slowed me a bit. That was with 2 x 4S 5000mah batts each side. Batts on each side hooked up in series then each bank hooked in parallel to make 8S overall. Batts pushed as far forward on the battery trays as I could get them. Water was pretty glassy for that run - this pic is in a different location.

Not all that happy with the water throughput on the under-hull pickup. Although temps were good (no temp gun sorry) I think I'd like to get a little better flow before I start pushing the boat more.

Ran it with a Cnc 4814 prop.


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Zelos_6_Orig_zpsndqcoua2.jpg

[Rafael_Lopez]

Something is off if you only got 48 on 8s. Drop your strut as low as it will go and try and add some negative angle to lift the transom and calm the bounce. I've never seen speeds that low on 8s. The slowest I've got on 8s was 53 with some very weak packs.

[IRON-PAWW]

Thanks Rafael. Trust me to be the slowest on the planet.

I'll do some adjustments and see where I end up. Wish I had a video, but it did seem unsettled with any real speed. Mainly the bounce issue though. No real heat in any of the components or wiring so I'm pretty happy with that for now. I might just teardrop the under-hull pickup some - just to see if I can get a little more water flow there as well.

It is my first boat of this size and first cat hull boat to speak of. Zonda 41inch just never ran well - noob issues I'm sure. So I will check some vids of the boat running and get myself tuned in to how they run and appear in the water etc etc. If I can settle it and push a bit more of a straight line run I should do better.

got that Octura 646/3 and another Cnc 46mm 3 blade prop that I could try too.

Will look at the strut adjustment as well.

[Rafael_Lopez]

In regards to the under hull pick up, you can get a bit more water through the line if you take a hobby knife and clean the paint off the water inlet. Tear drop the leading edge so the water channels up the inlet easier.

[IRON-PAWW]

Ok well I was able to drop the strut down around 5mm. Seemed it was all the way up. Will test and report back.

But something I noticed. Look at pic 3 - you will see the driveline actually sits lower than the strut itself. Will that have any effect?

And then - what angle should that strut be? Horizontal with the hull I assume? Pic is a bit deceiving, but I got it pretty much horizontal again.

Water pickup: I did clean a little paint out of there - but there wasn't a heck of a lot to clean out. Roger that on the tear drop channel - will do that next.


Before
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Strut_Before_zpsdbtozh5x.jpg


After
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Strut_After_zpsvilp886v.jpg

Driveline
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Strut%203_zpsds9gfqgu.jpg

Under Hull Pickup
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Pickup_zpsfvuft9wc.jpg

[IRON-PAWW]

So - with the above changes and a sharpened rudder I got 86.1km/h (53.5 mph)........ At least I reached Rafael's 'weak lipo' mark. lol.

Breeze was a tad stiff - and I did the speed runs *with* the wind. But not completely ideal conditions. Nonetheless - the boat wasn't bothered by the chop seemingly at all.

I did feel that with an extra 25-30m of run space I might have tagged a better speed - but I was heading for the rocks as it was.

The bounce the boat had in the first run was gone with the strut adjustments. It was a *Lot* more settled on the water at speed, making me feel better about pushing the speed runs as much as I could.

This is with a cnc 4814 prop and Newish lipos still being run in. All temps just warm after about 5 minutes. So there's headroom yet.

Might try the stock prop next or the 646/3.

[Rafael_Lopez]

Iron Paw, is that how your stuffing tube came out of the box? That's a real nasty bend. The tube is supposed to have a gradual bend in it. I've never seen one like that before. That's not how the vendor bends the tubes.

[IRON-PAWW]

Yes Rafael. That's how it came out of the box. I haven't touched it at all. Can you show me how it's meant to be?

Do you think that is fixable - or needs replacing?

[Rafael_Lopez]

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e21/jAndrew/Mobile%20Uploads/1BE155E3-EE4E-42FE-8630-B0F370BD1750_zpsa5tezyvg.jpg (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/jAndrew/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1BE155E3-EE4E-42FE-8630-B0F370BD1750_zpsa5tezyvg.jpg.html)

[Rafael_Lopez]

Let me reach out to the vendor and show them your stuffing tube and see what happened there. I can't imagine how that's possible, but I'll do some digging.

[IRON-PAWW]

Yeesh...... Ok I see what you mean. I think we found the 'something off'.

Let me know if you need some more pictures - am happy to post them up or email to you if needed.

Really appreciate your help. Thanks man.

[Rafael_Lopez]

Yes, I knew something didn't sound right with your boat. That bend will definitely kill performance. Did you buy from local hobby shop? If so, head back or reach out to them and tell them your boat has a defect. Show them my picture to prove how it should be. Unfortunately because you are out of the country there is little I can do from my end, but I know the distributor and they are very helpful. Please keep me posted via private message.

[Xtremespeed]

Rafael. Something's not quite right with mine also. I've only ran it twice. The first time I ran it, when I opened the hatch there was what seemed like a little steam inside the hull. There were some drops of water so I figured that's where the steam came from. Ran it the second time and there was a lot of steam this time. Turns out it wasn't steam at all. The teflon liner disintegrated and the flex cable was grimding the edge of the stuffing tube and discolored the sealant around the tube some. Obviously it got real hot. I'm not sure what could have caused this. My only guess is the motor wasn't aligned properly, but with the teflon liner sticking out of the stuffing tube slightly it seems like it would be difficult to tell. It was easy to see after because the liner wasn't there to keep the flex cable centered in the stuffing tube. I greased the flex cable both times and my stuffing tube doesn't look to be bent wrong like IRON-PAWW's. Do I replace the teflon liner, make sure the motor is centered properly and try again, or is there something else at play here I should be looking for? Will the ground edge of the stuffing tube cause further problems? Your help would be greatly appreciated.

[IRON-PAWW]

It might be you have a bad collet. Connect the flex into it and tighten some. Slowly spin the prop with your hand. As you spin, watch the flex very closely right where it exits the collet. There should be *zero* wobble - or sideways movement there. If you do have wobble there then it's a problem. Sometimes bad collets can cause it.

Or if you're getting slippage at the collet when you run then the flex will heat red hot quicksmart and could melt the teflon. Collet has to be nice & tight.

Just ideas to check for.

[Xtremespeed]

Thanks for the suggestions. I will look at the collet better this evening. I'm positive it wasn't slipping but maybe there is some wobble I missed. I don't think so, but it's definitely worth another look.

[Rafael_Lopez]

The best I can advise is to check the motor alignment. If the Teflon is worn now and there is no longer friction where there used to be, the issue is definitely alignment.

Because it sounds like your boat came this way, call our Product Support line and have them send you anther flex shaft with liner. Unfortunately they come in a pair, but I'm sure you wont mind having an extra flex shaft.

Once you install the new liner, make sure to align the motor properly. Please let me know if the misalignment is in the stuffing tube, which would prevent you from possibly aligning the drive line via the motor mount. Pictures help, so if you find this to be the case, post some pictures of the issue.

[Xtremespeed]

Thank you very much for the reply. I wish I would have taken pictures when it happened, but at least it does sound like I'm on the right track. There was no longer any liner showing and the flex shaft was against the tube. I first aligned the motor to see if the shaft would center in the tube which it did. Then I removed the shaft to find only small pieces of liner, some which seemed to be melted to the shaft. The tube is now hogged out slightly from the shaft rubbing against it at the motor end. It bothers me a little that there were no signs of a problem and the boat seemed to be running great. I'd hate to damage it by running it too long with an issue like this. Thankfully I shut it down at about 3.85v a cell. Had I ran it much longer I'm afraid to guess how bad the damage may have been. There was a lot of smoke and the sealant around the stuffing tube is golden brown from the heat. I will call the product support line today and see what they can do. Thanks again.

[Rafael_Lopez]

The best I can advise is to check the motor alignment. If the Teflon is worn now and there is no longer friction where there used to be, the issue is definitely alignment.

Because it sounds like your boat came this way, call our Product Support line and have them send you anther flex shaft with liner. Unfortunately they come in a pair, but I'm sure you wont mind having an extra flex shaft.

Once you install the new liner, make sure to align the motor properly. Please let me know if the misalignment is in the stuffing tube, which would prevent you from possibly aligning the drive line via the motor mount. Pictures help, so if you find this to be the case, post some pictures of the issue.

[Xtremespeed]

Small update. I talked to Bill in product support and he is sending me a new flex shaft and liner. He was a pleasure to deal with. Excellent support. Hopefully this will get me going. I'm going to have to figure out a way to clean the inside of the tube to remove any remnants of the melted liner.

[98Corvette]

Problems running 7s
I was wondering if anyone here can help me out. I have decided to run a 7s setup in my Zelos 48". As the manual states, there is an auto-detect for the amount of cells and it states that it should have 7 short beeps followed by a longer beep. I did a test with a 3s and got 3 beeps, 4s and got 4 beeps, 6s and got 6, 8s and got 8 beeps, BUT,,, when I did 7s I am getting 8 beeps.
If there is anyone on here with a Zelos 48 and if you have the capabilities of hooking up a 7s setup (4s+3s in series) or (5s+2s in series) laying around, would you mind hooking it up to see if you get 7 short quick beeps then the longer beep and green light.... Thanks in advance.

[Xtremespeed]

Just tried it on mine. It is the same. I get 8 short beeps followed by one long beep just like I do when running 8s.

[Rafael_Lopez]

Hey guys, sorry for the delay on this info regarding the ESC on 7s.

The manufacture specs say the ESC will work between 4-8s, but they don't consider 7s a common option so they did not include it in the ESCs programming.

We need to update the information for this ESC, but unfortunately it won't work with 7s.

[Xtremespeed]

Thanks for info Rafael.

[IRON-PAWW]

So the Australian Proboat Importer has issued me with a replacement hull. They agree that the incorrectly bent stuffing tube is a clear defect that warrants a replacement. It is currently sitting with my local hobby store. With work it'll be the weekend before I get my hands on it. Exactly what they've sent remains to be seen. What hardware did I get with it? Hatch? Electronics? I assume though that it will pretty much be a bare hull. Watch this space. It's good though that they came through in full agreeance on this. I admit I didn't know what their response would be.

So I think if your stuffing tube is bent this way out of the box - you should be able to get your hull replaced as well. Though it appears so far that I'm the single lucky person who's had this defect.

You can see the stuffing tube has no curve whatsoever. Rather - just a single nasty bend half way along. You can even see in the third pic the way the tube has begun to crimp underneath.

Once the new hull is up and running - I'll post some speed results to see what sort of difference this makes.



http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Strut_3_zpskerf7jpi.jpg


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Strut_1_zpsqmyftfrt.jpg


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Strut_2_zpsts3ddorr.jpg

[Xtremespeed]

Glad to see they are replacing it for you. I'm still waiting on a flex shaft and liner to fix mine but so far the support has been great.

[Rafael_Lopez]

They are replacing the bare hull, which includes only what is glued down to it. The only aluminum parts included are the antenna tube an the thumb screw bases. You are not getting a canopy because that is sold separately.

You will have to disassemble everything screwed down to your hull and transfer it to the new one.

The bare hull is pictured here, so you can reference what is included.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/hull-and-decal%3A-zelos-48-p-prb281030

[IRON-PAWW]

OK thanks Rafael. That's what I thought would happen. Hobby store was a little light on the details. So basically just the bare hull with stuffing tube in place? Can't see underneath in the link - But I assume I will need to pull the strut off the old hull too? Just so I know and can get busy with stripping the old hull before picking up the new.

[Rafael_Lopez]

Yes, nothing else bolted on other than the antenna tube and thumb screw bases are included. The inside tray unscrews, so you can remove the entire thing without a need to remove the motor, servo, and ESC. The battery trays and electronics tray rails come glued in place.

[Xtremespeed]

Got my new flex shaft and liner yesterday. The new one is a little longer than the original, so when I cut it, how much space should I leave between the strut and the drive dog with the shaft fully seated in the collet? 3-4mm?

[Rafael_Lopez]

Leave enough space for the teflon washers plus an additional 2.5-3mm to allow for shrinking under load. I don't have one here to measure the thickness of the teflon washers. If you choose not to run the washers then at least 3mm.

I'll find out why these are coming longer than specified.

[Xtremespeed]

Sounds good. Yeah I'm not real excited about cutting it but I assume it's not a big deal with a Dremel.

[IRON-PAWW]

All Right. I think these results speak for themselves.

I received my replacement hull. I swapped over the running gear and set things up as close as I could to what I had before. Instant 10Km/h (6.21 mph) difference.

I got a top speed of 91.9km/h (57.1mph) this time.

No differences or changes except for a replacement hull with a properly curved stuffing tube. CnC 4814 prop.

Now - ESC and its caps got a little hot. That didn't happen last time. No temp gun sorry. But on the limit of how hot I'm comfortable with electronics getting. Motor was fine. Wiring had no heat, and my batteries were warm. No heat in the collet or driveline.

Question: Just so I'm sure. The ESC has over volt protetction right? Does it also have thermal cutout?

Spent ages checking the motor alignment was good in the swapover - so I'm happy there.


Details of swapover coming up next - I found a few things out which I think people might be interested in. Plus I added a cap bank to see if that might help with the capacitor heat I got.


Garmin Foretrex Reading
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Garmin_Speed_post_Hullchange_zpskoycravo.jpg

Lake Conditions
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Glen_Brook_Conditions_zpsnz6a7yv5.jpg

[Xtremespeed]

Glad you got it going again. Looks like that stuffing tube was really causing some issues according to that new speed. I put mine back together but haven't had a chance to get it on the water yet. Had to cut about 4mm off the replacement flex shaft but didn't have any issues.

[Brushless55]

All Right. I think these results speak for themselves.

I received my replacement hull. I swapped over the running gear and set things up as close as I could to what I had before. Instant 10Km/h (6.21 mph) difference.

I got a top speed of 91.9km/h (57.1mph) this time.

No differences or changes except for a replacement hull with a properly curved stuffing tube. CnC 4814 prop.

Now - ESC and its caps got a little hot. That didn't happen last time. No temp gun sorry. But on the limit of how hot I'm comfortable with electronics getting. Motor was fine. Wiring had no heat, and my batteries were warm. No heat in the collet or driveline.

Question: Just so I'm sure. The ESC has over volt protetction right? Does it also have thermal cutout?

Spent ages checking the motor alignment was good in the swapover - so I'm happy there.


Details of swapover coming up next - I found a few things out which I think people might be interested in. Plus I added a cap bank to see if that might help with the capacitor heat I got.

with out a temp gun, there is no way to truly tell if the esc was to hot or not ?
how long was your run ?
how low were your lipos after the run ?

[IRON-PAWW]

Too True. I hear you. Temp gun is next on the list. Just trying to find something decent in Aus that isn't too expensive.

Run was around the 5 minute mark, certainly no more. Lipo's are fairly new as well - only about 4 runs on them. But the same I used previously. Cell voltage was 3.7v per cell when I tested about 10min after the run.

Ran it 8S with 4 x 4S 5000mah batts. 2 x 4S in series each side - and each side paralleled.


Xtremespeed: Thanks man! My replacement flex was a shade long too. Dremel cutting disc soon sorted that out. Will be interesting to see how yours goes for a comparison.

[IRON-PAWW]

Details of the hull swapout.

Big post sorry all. Keep scrollin' if you aren't interested and I won't take it personally.


To recap. My original hull had a defect in the way its stuffing tube was bent. Scroll up to see those pics. That hull was replaced under warranty. The new hull's stuffing tube has a much gentler bend in it as you can see in the pic below. Now *that* is the way it's supposed to be.

New Stuffing Tube
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/New_Tube_Best_zpsajkp5nhb.jpg




In my case - I was allowed to keep the old hull - so I've ended up with 2. Thoughts about what to do with the old hull & whether I'll build it up are beginning to gel. For now though - into storage it goes.... seeing as I have 2 massive boxes to put it in.

Old and New
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/OldampNew_Hulls_zpse0ufsofu.jpg




The same build quality is clearly evident in the new hull, which makes shelving the old one all the more a shame. So you get all the glued-in components - the stuffing tube of course, and it's teflon liner, and the battery trays. You get the antenna mount with it's small length of clear tube fitted - but not the black antenna tube itself. I also got a rubber control-arm boot for the steering, and, I also got the main black mounting tray that screws down onto the hull with the motor mount etc etc attached - so not a completely bare hull at all in my case. I also got a new flexshaft and liner with the hull. So really - more than reasonable as far as I'm concerned - and I certainly feel looked after because of it.

New Hull
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/New_hull_Empty_zpsspzw5tjf.jpg




New hull with the mounting tray removed. So, look - this is what I mean by plenty of glue used where it's needed (post on previous page). Those rails are what the mounting tray screws into - and plenty of glue has been used to attach them to the hull. They aren't coming loose anytime soon. The stuffing tube has been given similar treatment.

New Hull - Tray Removed
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/New_Hull_Tray_Mount_zpskvbzevzs.jpg




So here's the old hull with the mounting tray just removed & put aside. Very clever, and solid design. All you need to do is unscrew the mounting tray and screw it back into the new hull. BUT - then you *need* to go through the process of aligning the motor so that the flex cable feeds into the collet nice and smoothly. You don't want any misalignment between the motor and flex at all. So long as the flex feeds down into the stuffing tube dead-centre then you're good. Don't forget vertical angles as well. The mounting tray itself has sideways adjustment.

Old Hull - Removing Mounting Tray
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Old_Hull_Tray_Rem_2_zpsn18mc8js.jpg




The front motor mount gives your up and down adjustment. So - don't just think you can pull the mounting tray from one boat, then stick it in another and Boom you're done. I'd have probably killed my boat if I did that - The mounting adjustments were quite different from one hull to the next. I actually took this photo to show the bearing that needs oiling with a decent bearing oil with each few runs. You'll need a bottle with a nice pointed tip to get at it.

Front Motor Mount Showing Bearing
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Motor_Bearing_Closeup_zpsb6rbzxbp.jpg

[IRON-PAWW]

While I'm on the motor - I took these photos to show the screws on the motor that go rusty - pretty quicksmart it seems. First few runs I think I had water come through the stuffing tube and get sprayed around inside the hull a little. Small length of silicone tube over the end of the stuffing tube has stopped that happening. Short as you can get it because it *does* cause friction of course. So - like with any boat - not all your hardware is stainless steel. These screws on the motor, and I also found a grub screw on the rudder pin, that are not stainless steel will rust. I put a good dose of WD40 on here as you can see. I also filled the hex-head caps in the first pic with a stiff grease - we'll see how long that stays there.

Screws that rust
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Motor_Endcap_rust_zpssrc9vrhv.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Motor_Screw_Rust_1_zpsfts56x6y.jpg



Now - while I'm on the water damage thing, I also had some - corrosion I guess - on these three ESC connectors the motor plugs into. Bit wily these days, so with a little water splashed around I checked all my electric connectors. Lucky I did because I had this whitish buildup in these beginning to form. Cool - some WD40 and clean rag cleaned them no prob. But - the gold coating on the connectors also came off. Kid you not - that gold coating is micron thin - and susceptible to WD40 it appears. You can see in the 2nd pic it also wiped straight off the bullet connector as well. So I have silver connectors now on both the ESC and bullets instead of gold. Hmmmmmmmnnnnnnn. Watch also the pins for connecting the program box to the ESC. These go a nice bright green when they corrode, as do the pins on the receiver, and also the balance plugs on your lipos. WD40 the lot to stop this.
Motor - ESC Connectors
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/ESC_Connector_Closeup_2_zpsxlnhr302.jpg

Motor - ESC Bullet
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Silver_connector_zpsfc3tbos9.jpg




Might as well continue with other things I found in this process. If you ever need to pull out your SR310 receiver - careful - mine was glued in place. The antenna wire was glued into the antenna fitting and the box itself was glued down to the mounting tray. So don't go yanking on things too much until you have all that sorted. I used a small jewellers screwdriver and hammer to tap down through the antenna fitting to dislodge the glue.

I think I found why the reciever box was glued down - because the retaining bracket screws had been overtightened to the point where they had broken through the plastic. Some washers were needed to fix this little issue. No biggie - but something to be aware of.

SR310 Receiver Mounting
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/SR310_Glued_zpsj4ueevg6.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/SR310_Holder_zpsmdz6tkwd.jpg

[IRON-PAWW]

Swapping the hardware was a non issue. No need to really explain it. Except to say that I couldn't see any waterproofing measures in place - like a silicone etc etc to seal around the screws etc etc. Possible the removal of the screws killed it though. On the mounting faces of the strut and rudder assembly, I smeared a thin layer of silicone. I then smeared silicone around the undersides of the screw cap heads, the idea being that when all is in place, I should get a complete seal. Make sure you get the rudder mounted as square as possible - you don't want to fasten that down on an angle. I found I had a fair bit of angle movement when I re-mounted mine. Plenty of room to work as you can see with this pic of the strut mounting screws from inside the hull.

Strut Mount Screws
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Strut_Mount_zpsycbsc5sf.jpg




Next thing of note is the under-hull water pickup. With both hulls this was fairly constricted with paint, so using a dremel tool I bored the paint from the inlet and also carefully ground out a teardrop shape. This had quite a marked effect on the amount of water flow I got between this hull and the old one. Definitely worth doing - it makes a big difference. Still not as good as a rudder pickup but certainly serviceable.

Under Hull Pickup
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Tear_Drop_Pickup_zpsf8txrdqk.jpg




AAAnd last pic. With today's run I got some heat in the ESC and its capacitors. So I added this cap bank I had spare. Whether it's really needed or not I'll let others decide. As Brushless55 said, I really need a temp gun reading on the ESC before I can judge properly how 'overhot' it might or might not be getting. So be your own judge on that. Will look at temp guns now and see what I can do, and whether there's really an issue with heat or not.

Added Cap Bank
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Cap_Bank_zpsxuzkznsv.jpg





Lastly - big thanks must go to Rafael Lopez for picking up the defect in the first place, and then advising me through the warranty process. Like I said - I feel Like I was taken care of by Proboat / Horizon Hobby and then the Australian Proboat importer. Almost 92Km/h (57.16mph). That's what I'm talking about.

[slr30ate]

Good to see you got it all sorted out, where is that lake

[Rafael_Lopez]

When we replace a part, we usually never ask for the old one in return. Doesn't make sense to spend money and time on something we'd just throw away anyways.

As far as the temps on the caps, caps don't do anything than store power and release when necessary. Their temp is directly affected by loading and unloading of the prop. Depending on how you are running and water conditions, they may be hotter some runs/days than others.

I've put that ESC through a lot. Trust me when I tell you it will shut down before it burns up, unless you go high on timing; over 17*. But with the stock 6 pole D wind motor, you should be going down on timing if you decide to load it up more than stock.

[Xtremespeed]

Had a chance to get the Zelos in the water today. No smoke in the hull this time.:thumbup1: I did get a little water, but I'm not sure exactly where it came from. Might try some silicone tubing over the teflon liner to see if that helps. Anyways, the boat seemed to run much smoother and I'm confident that it was just a motor alignment issue. Snapped a few pics while I was there.
142274142275142276

[racerr73]

Quick question for IRON PAWW, can you weigh the first hull with the wrong stuffing tube in it and let me know what the weight is please.

Thanks
Trev

[IRON-PAWW]

Trev: Will do, if I can find a way to weigh it properly. Rafael may know the weight of a bare hull too though

Rafael: Will procure a temp gun and I'll get some solid measurements into the conversation. But I feel a little better knowing the cutout works decently.

Have not changed the timing as yet. Did I hear that the seaking program cards work on these Esc's? Will do a few more runs stock to make sure things are right before I go more aggressive.

[buckman]

Howdy Rafael and gang I be Buckman from the Gulf islands, been following the Zelos forum for ever lol,so bought one and damn if the 48" be sitting or should say docked in a box at the LHS on another island so off to get her in the morn and give her a new home. I have ordered the Reaction 50c but not here yet so can I use my multi rotor TBS 4S 30C gently till the 50c get here.
Tons of video when she hits the chuck.
Thankx
Buckman

[Rafael_Lopez]

Hey Buckman. Your're on the right path with the reaction packs. Use your packs with caution until you get a feel for how they will put up to the boats amperage demand. I'd say stop to check after 1-2 minutes for the first few runs. If they are at an acceptable temp, not starting to expand, don't feel squishy, they more than likely will hold up just fine.

[buckman]

Thankx brother aka Capt. will play with 8s2p and keep her easy and slow,
You Rock
Buckman
Will send pics when I get back with the box o joy

[Keagan-Z06]

Do I really need a Zelos 48'?? :confused2: No you don't! You have a Twin 36". Yeah but the 48" looks awesome too. :olleyes:

[Xtremespeed]

Lol. I have the same problem with the 36. Already have the 48 but the 36 looks awesome too.

[Keagan-Z06]

Lol. I have the same problem with the 36. Already have the 48 but the 36 looks awesome too.

36 is a beast! Im not sure If I can justify the 48, I think the 36 got everything 48 customers wanted, or most of it!

[Xtremespeed]

I love the 48 but sometimes it's just not as convenient as a 36 due to the size and weight. I will probably eventually end up with both but I want a V also, and maybe a hydro. Lol! It never ends.

[Keagan-Z06]

I thought the same thing but for right now the Voracity and Zelos Twin do just fine! If I had to buy a third boat I don't know what I would get. I'm really hoping Rafael doesn't release another boat anytime soon. lol

[buckman]

Damn that's a big boat and the craftsmanship and that esc, servo,motor and hardware are fricken outstanding!!! Well done Rafael and the Proboat team. I managed to bring her home fully unpacked still in shipping box via local transit system (bus) took up 5 seats at the back of the bus. Cost was $2.50 cents over taxi $70 bucks. I turned those savings into beer of-course. Bottom line until you hold one in your hands you really cant appreciate the true beauty of the Zelos 48". With that said I just ordered the 36" twin.
Buckman

[IRON-PAWW]

I had some weird cutouts with the last two runs. The boat would just stop dead. But - if I let the trigger out on the TX then back in straight away - the boat would take off again. First run though - I picked up a stray piece of foam pool noodle in the lake that wrapped around the rudder and I guess would have been causing drag. Frikkin pain. Second run - I noticed the water hose I placed over the end of the stuffing tube at the motor/coupler end had split apart and I'm not convinced it wasn't fouling the flex somehow.

So Question: Could the cutouts be overamping due to the gumpf fouling the rudder in the first run and the tubing fouling the flex in the second? Just shooting for possible causes - haven't had the these coutouts before.

Batts are fairly new but..... Low voltage cutout?

Like I said. Boat would suddenly stop - but a quick let go of the Tx trigger and back in again and away I'd go. Might get another lap of the lake in before it'd happen again - and never on a speed section - it always seemed to be on a slower part of the run.

Ran 4 x 4S 60C 5000mah batts in 8S configuration. Stock 48mm prop.

Hottest temps I measured on the ESC ( finally got a temp gun) were 114F (45.5C) on the heatsink and 118F (47.7) on the caps. That is less than a minute after coming back to shore. No real heat in any other components.

Could the coutouts be RX related?? Some sort of brown out?? In my experience - that generally means a longer delay though before the link establishes again.


Still getting bounce at speed. So will try some negative strut angle and maybe the 3 blade prop (48mm x 1.4 pitch) - if you guys think those ESC temps are ok.

Any chance of a side on pic of a strut on a nicely running boat so I can get a look at it?

[arrover]

When you described your problem I was thinking RX issue but I'm not an expert. Has there been any moisture in your boat that could have gotten in the receiver? Or could the antenna wire have been cut or frayed? Just some thoughts....

[IRON-PAWW]

Yes.... it did get a few drops on it at one time when a water hose split. I did give it a corrosion x spray from new but I suppose moisture may still have gotten to it. Have a few MR200'S I might try in it (with my old Tx) if I have no joy. Antenna wire isn't cut or frayed & appears ok.

[kenrid]

Yes.... it did get a few drops on it at one time when a water hose split. I did give it a corrosion x spray from new but I suppose moisture may still have gotten to it. Have a few MR200'S I might try in it (with my old Tx) if I have no joy. Antenna wire isn't cut or frayed & appears ok.

Notwithstanding extensive testing done on these boats, it seems to me that having a naked rx makes it vulnerable to moisture ingress at some point. Placing the rx inside a balloon or sealed plastic box is logical. I have lost radio control a few times (eg FE30 and Popeye) when the rx got wet either through leaking deck seal or water seeping up thru the stuffing tube.

[gfmarlin88]

Ive submarined my voracity ripping the canopy off to where the boat was completely submerged with only the tip floating above water for 30-60 seconds before recovery and all my electronics continue to function normally, props to horizon electronics.

[Keagan-Z06]

I have not had that much of luck when it comes to the receiver. I'm on my second one, I decided since I don't live in the US I can't be buying receivers all willy nilly so I built a little plastic box for it with glue gun. Never got a drop of water in that sucker again. The balloon idea might be done for the Zelos Twin although water doesn't flood that boat like it did with my voracity. I will eventually put silicone in all those screw holes on d transom.

[Rafael_Lopez]

Iron Paw, your cut out issues sound like radio glitch or batteries dropping below voltage. But i've never experienced anything like what you described with this ESC and none of the testers reported anything like it.

The push button switch on the ESC is a momentary switch. I changed our ESCs to this type of switch for one reason. The ESC must see power from the LiPo to operate. This translates to taking the guess out of cut out due to loss of power. If your ESC loses connection with the LiPo your boat is dead in the water until you press the button again. Now, this doesn't mean that your ESC may not be having BEC issues, which I have never seen before with any of our ESCs. The BEC issue can be tested be removing the red wire in to the receiver and running and external RX battery/BEC, if you have one. The other thing you can try is to use another radio or receiver, or both, to see if anything changes. You can also lower or remove the LiPo cutoff to see if that is what is happening., being cautions not to run too long or you will damage your LiPos.

[IRON-PAWW]

Thanks Rafael.

It turned out to be Low Voltage Cutout. Hmmmmm - I didn't have that happening to begin with but nevertheless it's certainly happening now. Have lost some speed somewhere along the line too so something's changed - although lake *was* glassy today..... In any case - I redid the wiring harness today as some of the soldering joints I wasn't entirely happy with. I reset the motor alignment as I noted the vertical angle could be a little better. Noted too that the strut had shifted from where I set it to and I was getting more bounce back in my runs - so I redid all that and clamped it down a little tighter. We'll see how it goes next time. Might be that the Batts I bought aren't as good as reported...... stop the press.....

I can confirm that the Hobbywing program card works for this ESC. I set my LVC from 3.2v back to 3.0v per cell without issue & will now time my runs. No more cutouts after I made that change. Only thing is that this ESC has a 5th setting that the hobbywing (seaking's) do not. Any Idea what that 5th setting is?

Next question: The front of the right-hand sponson often seems like it wants to dig into the water in a sort of twisting motion. Only at speed though when I'm getting the bounce. Does that ring any setup bells for anyone?

Caps reading 127F at the end of a full run. That's getting hottish right?

[Rafael_Lopez]

It honestly sounds like your batteries are dumping under load, meaning they cant keep up with the boat's amperage demand. The voltage drops low under load, triggering the LVC. Sure, lowering the LVC works but the issue remains, your LiPos are struggling.

5th setting is for CW/CCW motor rotation. It's not on the card, but is in the manual.:wink:

The twisting sounds like prop walk. What prop are you running? If it's the stock prop, did you balance and sharpen it?

As far as the caps, I think I've mentioned this before, don't measure cap temps to judge the electronics efficiency. The caps just hold power and release it under load. It's a place to store power. The caps take in and release power every time the prop loads and unloads, be it because the boat is jumping in and out of the water due to rough conditions or you are on and off throttle. Has nothing to with with the actual running temps which should be taken off the board, near the motor connectors, and on the motor near the wires.

Checking the temperature of the caps is like checking temperatures on the shocks of an off-road vehicle. Run it in smooth terrain and the shocks see less friction; low temps. Run in rough terrain and the shock will have higher temps; high friction. All great info, but it doesn't tell you how the engine is doing.

[IRON-PAWW]

Yep. As much as I hate to admit it - I think those batteries are sailing too close to the wind, and their voltage is dropping under load. Can't really see what other explanations there might be at this point. Everything else is eliminated. Can only guess that with those successful runs earlier I only just got away with it. They don't get hot at all though - and I've always thought that over stressed lipo's showed their displeasure through heat. Still - I get one lap maybe before the first cut-out so no heat builds up by then. I suppose the ESC *could* be glitchy but hard to prove without a second one to test. At $230 for a spare and 4 or so Swordfish 300's sitting unused in boxes on my shelf - it'll be a test I won't be doing. I really think Rafael is right though with the subpar batts. *sigh*

Lipo's are *hard* to get in Aus right now without paying an absolute fortune. I notice HK Australia has some 65C graphene's in stock though...

I thought that running 4 of the 4S 5000mah 60C (or so they say) batts in a parallel 8S config should have done the trick.

Prop was the same 4814 cnc prop I've been using up until now. Guess it could have bent out of shape...... my runs *have* been off since that one good run I did. Might try my 48mm 3 blade cnc's as they're the only replacements I have right now.

What effect would a slightly off-vertical rudder have? Mine *looks* straight, but at certain angles looks very slightly off-vertical. Spirit levels etc etc suggest it's good but...

I've had caps go boom before in other projects - so that's why I'm looking at them carefully now. It's always been said that when that happens - you've pushed the ESC too much. But - I hear what you're saying.

[Rafael_Lopez]

If you lowered the LVC and that solved some of the issues you were having or changes the issue, then there should be no doubt that the LiPos are dropping off under load. LiPos dont always heat up or show signs of going bad when voltage womnt hold. Dont know if you ever used NiMh cells, but it's the same thing. They take in voltage but as soon as they load up they go to 0v.

Ive never used the graphite LiPos but I've seen some peopel raving about them on Facebook in the past. Might be worth a try.

As for the caps, they are in line of incoming voltage, but no voltage actually flows through them. If you have blown caps in the past it's been because the bust rating of the ESC was surpassed. I'm not saying the caps cant blow on this ESC, but no one has experienced this yet with this ESC under "normal" use. You can always add a cap bank if you want peace of mind. Adding at least 3 more caps should be enough to give you peace of mind.

[IRON-PAWW]

All right - the hits roll on.

Tell me there's someone having better luck with their boat than I am.

I suffered what I originally thought was a fairly benign slow-speed flip over & crash. It's always hard to really judge from shore - but I wasn't going all that fast when it flipped. I'd say maybe 60km/h (37mph) is about all it would have been. The front just popped up and the whole boat got air, before it was back to the water with a bit of splash. I wasn't really worried about it at all, having seen almost identical flip overs in the videos of this boat online - but that changed when I got back to shore. The front right-hand sponson has split a seam, add there's cracking damage though the resin in that area as well running up onto the top deck of the boat.

Now - before I say more, I think it's timely to point out there's many people with this boat who are having a blast with it - swapping out props and pushing for higher speeds and getting a lot out of it. Remember - forums attract people with problems - you hardly ever read a post where someone has said 'no issues here - boat going well'. I wasn't going to post this at all - as I'm starting to paint the boat in a negative light with all my problems.

But - this split - in my opinion - has revealed another manufacturing issue with this hull. And I want to save people from this happening to them if I can. I'm not doing this to rant or lay *any* blame to anyone, or gain any benefit for myself. I'm just telling you what I've found. The hull thickness along that split is painfully thin. Much, much thinner than the rest of the boat - or at least the hull thickness around the hatch area where you can get a good, decent look at it.

Look at the hull thickness in photo# 3. I need to point out that it only appears as thick as it does in some areas because of a line of glue/epoxy that has been run along the seam inside the boat. If I run my hand up in there I can clearly feel a bead of glue that has been placed there - which the opposite side does not have. So - it's clear that someone has seen that the hull was weak in that area and has tried adding extra glue. You can sort of see it in the inside hull pictures - difficult getting a camera up inside there.

The hull I had clearly needed reinforcing - and I'll be doing that should I get a replacement, no matter how the hull appears when it arrives.

I think if you have one of these hulls - just see if you have that bead of glue running along one of your seams. If you do - be suspicious.

As I say - negative press isn't what I want, I simply want to put this cautionary tale out there. You may need to reinforce after all.

Hope others are getting down & jiggy with it.


1
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Split_1_Web_zps71bc0pfc.jpg



2
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Split_2_web_zpsx30rlwkd.jpg



3
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Split_3_Web_zpsyomdeuz9.jpg



4
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Split_4_web_zps58zyuinz.jpg



5
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Split_5_web_zpsair9heox.jpg



6
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Split_6_web_zpsbxmrpg6d.jpg

[Yellow]

That's terrible. Have you contacted customer service?

[Xtremespeed]

Man. With the motor alignment that melted the Teflon liner in mine and now the water ingress I'm getting because of the wholered out stuffing tube, I haven't had enough time on the lake to enjoy it, let alone start pushing it harder. That may be a blessing in disguise if mine is as thin as yours in that same spot. I can't wait to get home and check it. Did you compare to the other hull to see if it's the same? I assume the thin spot is where they mate the 2 halves together. Hopefully they will take care of you again. This doesn't look good though. Thanks for sharing.

[IRON-PAWW]

Yes - I'm going back through the warranty process as we speak. I've been given some options to consider. Whether or not I can get another hull is still being worked through. There may be plans afoot to send this hull back to Proboat for them to look at. Incorrectly bent stuffing tube you can put down to production line blues. But this ..... this has apparently garnered a little more interest. Final outcome still being decided.

Actually - I haven't checked my other hull for this as yet, but that's a very good idea. Exactly *how* to check that part of the boat's hull for thickness I'm not sure. But will pull it from storage and check for a glue bead nonetheless. Hope you guys don't have the same problem.

What strikes me from the photos is that it looks like there is only a single layer of fibreglass matting along that seam. With the paint gone you get daylight showing that fact fairly well. Whether a powerful light shone through the hull might show that to others??

As the boat is a little light in any case I figure some reinforcement won't hurt.

[Xtremespeed]

I really hope my hull doesn't look thin there, but I'm definitely going to check when I get home this evening. I was thinking the same. Shine a flashlight along the seam while looking from the inside might allow you to see if it looks thin.

[buckman]

Hey guys I checked for this glue bead on both sponsons and nothing. I might add when using your hands to feel inside of seam area watch for sharp pieces of glass cause they sting as I found out. Also I will bring my cable camera for pipe inspections home to get a closer look.
Cheers
Buckman

[Keagan-Z06]

That sucks to see. A body shop will fix that no prob. While their at it have them put more Fiberglass to strengthen!

[Xtremespeed]

I looked at mine this evening and there is quite a bit of what looks like extra resin on the seam, but only toward the front of the sponsons. I can't really tell how thin it is though. Here are a couple pics of what it looks like.

142907

142908

[Jesse Flovin]

I too am dealing with hull issues, I've found 3 cracks so far in my bran new zelos 48"142942142943

[Jesse Flovin]

https://youtu.be/n8kebOo9vW4

[IRON-PAWW]

I feel your pain Jesse. Honestly - I do.

I have been *extremely* well looked after by the Australian Importer of these hulls and most certainly by my local hobby store who really have stuck with me throughout my trials. So I'm really hoping you have the same experience.

I've just arrived home with my third replacement hull - so take heart from that. But the fact that I'm even on my third hull in the first place well........ you decide. It was my choice to accept the third hull or go with other options. The Australian importer has asked for my previous hull back - in it's entirety - so it can be sent back to Proboat / Horizon. I've been given a *complete* new hull.

Just from a quick & very brief inspection of this 3rd hull though - It also appears far too thin up forward. And has glue beads / ridges internally along the seams on both sides up forward. Just pushing down on the top deck of the boat up forward reveals it doesn't have the hull thickness I think it ought to. But I admit - with my experience - it's not really a call I can make.

The call I *am* making though, is that I will be reinforcing this hull. To me - it just doesn't appear strong enough up forward to cope with crashes. I'll be stripping out the hardware and glassing up forward. Then also probably some carbon fiber tape down each side, and dropping some resin into the tips and leading tunnel edge - just as a beginning.

I'm not sure how reinforced this hull is supposed to be - but - what I'm looking at doesn't seem right. (Again - not truly qualified to make that statement though).

I do know the Australian importer is looking at whether there may be bad batch issues - but nothing is verified.


Again - not wanting to scare people away from this boat - and I'm trying to be fair about what I write up here. Many people on RC Groups forum etc etc having a blast with it. Forums collect people with issues.

[buckman]

So I checked mine out and 0- nada hull is sound no cracks or flaws to the naked eye.
Still in in dry dock shiny and new.

[buckman]

Batts are here. Will pick up Friday, Venom 5000 / 100c water cooled.

[Keagan-Z06]

Where did u source those from and how much if u don't mind me asking?

[Brushless55]

Batts are here. Will pick up Friday, Venom 5000 / 100c water cooled.

let us know what you think of those packs..

[buckman]

Hey guys, I use my local hobby shop BC Shaver hobby's out of Victoria BC and they deal with Horizon, Tower, ect.. anything I order is usually here within a week. The Venoms are from Horizon Hobby and are around $200 a pack, Good thing I am divorced cause no way the X would let me get 8 packs. $800 bucks for 5 min of bliss, and I would pay twice that anyhow. I am a GoPro freak as well so I promise lots of vids.

[Jesse Flovin]

Well I appreciate a little piece of mind from somebody who's been there. Thank you for that. However I am even more upset after looking it over the boat more thoroughly I've found that even the motor mounts have fractures almost all the way around and I'm beginning to wonder if there was a bad batch because there are far too many flaws for this to pass QC for Horizon Hobby. Like I said I'll be waiting to see exactly what happened but as of right now I'm waiting for them to decide whether or not it's being shipped back which I would assume undoubtably would be the case.

[Jesse Flovin]

I doo have to say, this thing scoots tho!142987142988
https://youtu.be/jFweqIQ8WJY

[IRON-PAWW]

So this is what I'm talking about. My hulls have these definite glue beads running along the seams inside the hull. If I run my hands along the inner walls of the hull they're plain to feel.

Not the prettiest looking job I admit. Done very late at night. But I have strengthened both sides of the hull with a fairly heavy weave carbon fibre tape and West Systems epoxy with slow cure hardener. Won't win any awards but should do the job. I also laid a sheet of 4 oz fibreglass matting across the inside of the upper deck and down onto the walls for extra strength in that area.

Put some epoxy in in the sponson tips and tunnel nose using KFX's water bucket method he describes in the Zelos 36 thread to prevent heat warping. Worked a treat.

Then I sourced some high density flotation foam to replace the PITA styrofoam flotation block. I shaped a piece to fit inside the tunnel nose as well for extra support and glued it there. Then I shaped these two main blocks to so they would fit snugly between the floor and the top deck and glued them in place, also for extra strengthening should the boat flip again. The boat feels a *lot* more solid now.

In the process now of reinstalling the motor tray and cooling lines.

Jesse: It sounds to me like your boat has suffered a rough transport leg somewhere along the line. That cracking in the paint & fibreglass , plus the cracking around the motor mount could very well be from getting thrown around on a loading dock someplace. Had a hull from Hobbyking once that was badly damaged on arrival. They blamed transport - and actually refused me warranty. Long story but I ended up fixing that hull. Cool Zelos jump by the way :-)





1
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Reinforce_1_zpse85dhi14.jpg


2
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Reinforce_2_zpsbf4vb3pz.jpg


3
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Reinforce_3_zpsmtrn0zxi.jpg


4
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t373/adamstr/Reinforce_4_zpsqlaz6nz4.jpg

[Jesse Flovin]

So after sending probably 45 pictures total they have agreed to replace the hull, sending me a replacement as we speak. Great job horizon! After a few buyer's remorse moments it should get squared away.

[Jesse Flovin]

What seems to be the best prop for acceleration & decent speed that will be good to my lipos, the stock 48 has a ton of cavitation but efficiently uses all the mah available , & the 52 seems to not allow full use age of the lipos but pulls a decent 60mph top speed.

[Chado2448]

Just got back into rc boats with a traxxas spartan and the bug bit me bad. So my 48 just came in and I'm stoked about the quality of this boat. My question is I have a bunch of traxxas 5000 25c 3 cell batteries, if I adapt them to the ec5 connector will this boat run on them? Also I can get some of the venom water cooled 5000 100c batteries for a good deal are they worth it. Thanks.

[Mxkid261]

Just got back into rc boats with a traxxas spartan and the bug bit me bad. So my 48 just came in and I'm stoked about the quality of this boat. My question is I have a bunch of traxxas 5000 25c 3 cell batteries, if I adapt them to the ec5 connector will this boat run on them? Also I can get some of the venom water cooled 5000 100c batteries for a good deal are they worth it. Thanks.

I would run atleast a 50c battery those traxxas batteries will probably puff pretty good in that big boat

[Xtremespeed]

I definitely wouldn't run the 25c batteries. My 50c batteries drop pretty good under power and I'm running 8s 2p with Dynamite reactions. Those 25c batteries don't stand a chance.

[kfxguy]

25c isn't enough for that boat. I'm not to fond of water cooled lipos. More water hose complication. Possible leaks. Then it takes longer to install and remove the batteries. Water goes everywhere in the boat when you disconnect them. I think it's more a gimmick for inexperienced people that know no better. If your setup is correct then your batteries don't need cooling.

[Darin Jordan]

I'm not to fond of water cooled lipos.

I'll second that. It's completely counter to how batteries work as well. Cold Batteries equals more voltage drop under load. That's why the car racers, etc., always tried to warm them up prior to use. You know, the same reason your car is harder to start in the winter. It's a REALLY BAD idea, that results in puffing packs, etc.

Better to just buy the right cells and setup the boat properly.

[Jesse Flovin]

Second hull just inspected and found numerous issues. I'm not sure if my standards are just too high or if this manufacturer is going downhill. Sloppy glass work, loose fibers, hardware mounting holes look to have damaged glass & not fully drilled, stress cracks on the edge right side by canopy, & the paint is covered in dust particles that dried on it. Oh how I love these rtr!

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[Jesse Flovin]

Even your factory glass looks better than either of the hulls I have. Iron paww

[kfxguy]

I wouldn't mine doing a custom build on one of these hulls. I think I could make one look top notch, be hella strong and haul ass.

[Darin Jordan]

48" of hull, and you found those seriously MINOR issues? I'd say that's pretty awesome!

The stress cracks around the hatch are likely do to someone picking the hull up by one hand by wrapping around that lip. Same thing happened to my Voracity when I lifted it that way.

As for the minor loose glass ends... If those are considered "issues"... then you are seriously LOOKING for something to complain about, in my opinion, because on a Polyester glass hull that isn't bagged, that's going to happen.

[kfxguy]

Pretty much every cat I've had my hands one has those hanging strands of fiberglass in some place or another. Nothing a pair of little scissors can't fix. No offense but I think your just being a tad too picky :)

[Brushless55]

If it floats I think your good. :biggrin:

[Mxkid261]

I wouldn't consider those "issues" definitely being a little picky...these boats are mass produced you can't expect it to be flawless

[Doby]

Ferrari tastes expected on a boat with a GM price tag...not going to happen.

[kfxguy]

Ferrari tastes expected on a boat with a GM price tag...not going to happen.

This is a good point and true.

[kfxguy]

I wouldn't consider those "issues" definitely being a little picky...these boats are mass produced you can't expect it to be flawless

Did you mean to say "would"?

[Mxkid261]

Did you mean to say "would"?


I dont think so lol..I meant like I personally wouldnt consider the things he was concerned about actual "issues" with the boat, just small imperfections I guess. Like doby stated, champagne taste on a beer budget lol

[Jesse Flovin]

I guess I could be a bit particular but the others I've seen are flawless & I guess I just expected more. I'm reaching out to a dealer buddy of mine east coast to see what he's got to say & feels about his in Stock models vs mine!

[Doby]

Heres what you want..

http://www.hpr-powerboats.com/

....prepare to dig deep in the wallet.

[bigcam406]

for the amount of money we fork out for these products,i think he has a right to be picky IMO.

[Mxkid261]

for the amount of money we fork out for these products,i think he has a right to be picky IMO.

True but it is a rtr boat Im sure imperfections are inevitable. If you wanted a custom made perfect boat you'd probably pay double what you'll pay for something rtr

[bigcam406]

True but it is a rtr boat Im sure imperfections are inevitable. If you wanted a custom made perfect boat you'd probably pay double what you'll pay for something rtr

for what i'd pay for the boat up here (Canadian funds),i'd expect the QC to be a tad better when the boat is shipped from the factory.i know RTR's are not perfect,but i would expect better.

[IRON-PAWW]

I think a few loose ends of fibreglass matting *are* par for the course with RTR hulls that have gone down a production line yes. I wouldn't get too concerned about those. Really - stuff like that is just cosmetic. Hard to tell from the pics, but it seems you've even had extra matting laid where I did not. Cut em off with a hobby knife and sand back a little and you'll be fine. I did have a few loose bits of matting with mine but it was all very minor. The basic underlying glasswork was actually pretty good - except for the thin hull thickness in the sponsons. Still not sure of the real story there.

The stress cracks: I'd say Darin is right. If you try wieilding this hull around by grabbing it like that then it's gonna happen. So it probably *is* what happened at the factory perhaps. If it's cracked to the point of being more accurately described as damage then..... warranty. it it's just a few minor stress cracks then - yeah - annoying but not uncommon. Reinforce with some light matting on the inside and get busy with it.

The paintwork - again - annoying but I do agree it's a minor issue. Odd though - never saw anything like that. But if it's *not* minor for you - then all you can do is ask the question.

But What I will say though - is that around here this boat retails for $1600. I think for that price tag you can begin to ask a little more than classic RTR standards. The hardware in this boat *is* a cut above classic RTR for sure. No Doubt. The hull *is* actually better laid up than a great many I've seen. The V1 Zonda Hull I've got was frikkin eye opening. However - as the pre-strengthened hull in the Zelos 48 is supposedly a predominant feature of the boat..... Well Mine didn't turn out that way.

I think there *are* some Quality control issues, and maybe on a hull this big they are less easily hidden. People have to make their own decisions on that I think when buying stuff like this. For people that aren't veterans of the hobby though - I do understand worry around issues like these.

But look, some CF tape, West systems epoxy and additional matting of your choice to strengthen where you'd like, some epoxy in the tips and tunnel nose.... and Boom... you've got a well set up boat that you've strengthened to boot. To even get our hands on an FE boat like this before now would be several K's worth. What's good with this boat is that we've gotten 48inch hull for much less than that. My boat is definitely a little heavier than it was but not drastically so. Ran well on it's shakedown cruise I gotta say, though I didn't push it on those sessions.

For me the thrill is in the drive, not on the shelf.

[Chado2448]

Thanks for the advice fellas. I definitely won't run my 25c in it. I think I'm going to get the venom 100c and not use the cooling lines. Thoughts, or should I pony up the cash for the reaction 50c?

[Mxkid261]

Thanks for the advice fellas. I definitely won't run my 25c in it. I think I'm going to get the venom 100c and not use the cooling lines. Thoughts, or should I pony up the cash for the reaction 50c?

I feel like those batteries are a little overpriced I use SPC and love them and now have a pair of SMC 2s packs to try out

[Doby]

......................

[Doby]

for what i'd pay for the boat up here (Canadian funds),i'd expect the QC to be a tad better when the boat is shipped from the factory.i know RTR's are not perfect,but i would expect better.

Then perhaps RTR's are not for you. Also, Proboat has no control over the exchange rate.

[Mxkid261]

Are they manufactured in the states or oversea's?

[Xtremespeed]

I have the reactions, and I'm not really impressed. I must admit they are holding up well so far but they show too much voltage sag when running in this boat imo. I think there are other packs that would do better. The problem is, most of them are even higher priced than the reactions.

[bigcam406]

Then perhaps RTR's are not for you. Also, Proboat has no control over the exchange rate.

i have bought lots of rtr's,some were real bad quality out of the box and some were mint.i bought 2 Fastech's that were night and day of each other in quality,both bought in the same year.my point is if the manufacturer is going to all the trouble to market the new next "big" thing,at least have it worthy of the price you have to pay for it,regardless of the exchange rate.its all about principle.im not bashing Proboat,as they have really stepped up their game.but flaws like those are unacceptable IMO.

[bigcam406]

Are they manufactured in the states or oversea's?

overseas

[kfxguy]

Why not get some of the hv hyperions? Look at the second battery on this page? I'd definitely spend the extra 6 bucks to get these.

[Xtremespeed]

I really wanted to try the Dinogy's but they are out of most everything and never seem to get new stock.

[kfxguy]

I really wanted to try the Dinogy's but they are out of most everything and never seem to get new stock.

I wouldn't. Try the hyperions. You won't be disappointed. As an alternative SPC is a very good lipo. So is revolectrix and pulse is decent too. Stay away from turnigy. Venom is good too but over priced. Max amps is a no no.

[Chado2448]

I ordered 4 SPC 6500 60c. Seem like good batteries for the money. Now I have to impatiently wait for them to come in so I can get this beast out. In the mean time I've been running my spartan and clipped a slightly submerged stick at wot and stuffed the bow hard. It went under for a few seconds before it came up. Dried it out, lubed it up, straightened the rudder and was back on the water a few minutes later. 143229

[Jesse Flovin]

My HRB 6000 50c are great & for under $60 each a steal! EBay! Come in cool wide open 8 Ish min.

[Jesse Flovin]

I'm curious to see what the best way to run the cooling lines are. I think the stock inlet & outlet ports can be used more effectively.

[IRON-PAWW]

Out of the box, all my hulls have had the motor plumbed backwards. I run from the under-hull pickup to the lower motor fitting, then from the high motor fitting to outside. The rudder pickup does the esc. Really, you need to twst the motor cooling jacket a little to properly align the fittings at the higest/lowest point - but my motor doesn't get all that hot so I haven't bothered. On every hull, grinding the paint out of the under-hull pickup and tear dropping it has significantly improved water flow as well.

[Rafael_Lopez]

The cooling lines are run in an effective manor, yes even with that loop on the ESC, I consider it efficient. Our cooling sleeves are designed to feed the water from either top or bottom. There is a ring inside, both ends of the sleeve, which backs the water up enough to make sure the water completey moves around the can and has enough time to soak up the heat from the motor; its not smooth inside.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e21/jAndrew/Mobile%20Uploads/F2838C8F-6D50-443F-9CED-CBC23353CEA1_zpshxbtvkpo.jpg

I never found the ESC or motor to run hotter than 90*. If there are heat issues, something is upsetting the electronics.

[kfxguy]

I have run the fittings facing down and didn't notice a difference in motor temp. The cooling jacket is going to completely fill up before water starts exiting. Then the heat will still be drawn out of the water that may sort of hang around in the jacket. It's constantly being replaced.

[IRON-PAWW]

Aha! I didn't know about the rings inside the motor cooling jacket! Very good info to know. I won't be so worried about that now. Makes perfect sense and adds up with the fact that neither of the motors I've had has gotten hot. So those cooling jacket rings *would* restrict water flow a little right? Just for those (like me) who might be wondering why one cooling line may have better flow than the other.

The "slower water pipes more heat away" argument is not one I agree with - but that's another discussion. :-)

[Bexum]

Great thread really find it it help with the setup of my new zelos 48. I have one question for everyone though. I'm having a hard time getting the proper CG when running in flat water conditions. I'm experiencing a lot of bouncing at full throttle. Here's what I've tried so far. 1) I'm running my batteries as far forward as I can. I'm only running 2 4s batteries in series right now. I have plans of running 4 4s batteries in series and parallel. But I do not have the other 2 LiPo batteries. 2)I've adjusted the strut 2mm down. 3.) I tried running a 4814 CNC Aluminum prop which I've sharpened and balanced. To try and get more transom lift. I have not de-tongued this prop. Would that help? It's basically a "X" prop. On a happier note I love the size of the model. Driving it has been a blast in small chop. I did have to return my first one to Horizon Hobby for replacement. Hull was damaged in the box. No problems there Horizon replaced with Np. I also messaged Rafael as well. He answered very quickly with what he thought and I going look into his suggestions. Sorry do being so long winded but any help or suggestion with flat water setup for this boat would be greatly appreciated.

[kfxguy]

Great thread really find it it help with the setup of my new zelos 48. I have one question for everyone though. I'm having a hard time getting the proper CG when running in flat water conditions. I'm experiencing a lot of bouncing at full throttle. Here's what I've tried so far. 1) I'm running my batteries as far forward as I can. I'm only running 2 4s batteries in series right now. I have plans of running 4 4s batteries in series and parallel. But I do not have the other 2 LiPo batteries. 2)I've adjusted the strut 2mm down. 3.) I tried running a 4814 CNC Aluminum prop which I've sharpened and balanced. To try and get more transom lift. I have not de-tongued this prop. Would that help? It's basically a "X" prop. On a happier note I love the size of the model. Driving it has been a blast in small chop. I did have to return my first one to Horizon Hobby for replacement. Hull was damaged in the box. No problems there Horizon replaced with Np. I also messaged Rafael as well. He answered very quickly with what he thought and I going look into his suggestions. Sorry do being so long winded but any help or suggestion with flat water setup for this boat would be greatly appreciated.



Try an abc prop. They seem to smooth things out on everything I run them on. Not sure what size to tell you to run. Maybe a 50mm? That would be a 2015-17-45 part number. The 20 is the diameter in inches minus a decimal, so 2.0" diameter. 15 is the pitch so 1.5 pitch.

[Xtremespeed]

Great thread really find it it help with the setup of my new zelos 48. I have one question for everyone though. I'm having a hard time getting the proper CG when running in flat water conditions. I'm experiencing a lot of bouncing at full throttle. Here's what I've tried so far. 1) I'm running my batteries as far forward as I can. I'm only running 2 4s batteries in series right now. I have plans of running 4 4s batteries in series and parallel. But I do not have the other 2 LiPo batteries. 2)I've adjusted the strut 2mm down. 3.) I tried running a 4814 CNC Aluminum prop which I've sharpened and balanced. To try and get more transom lift. I have not de-tongued this prop. Would that help? It's basically a "X" prop. On a happier note I love the size of the model. Driving it has been a blast in small chop. I did have to return my first one to Horizon Hobby for replacement. Hull was damaged in the box. No problems there Horizon replaced with Np. I also messaged Rafael as well. He answered very quickly with what he thought and I going look into his suggestions. Sorry do being so long winded but any help or suggestion with flat water setup for this boat would be greatly appreciated.

I find that running 4 batteries really helps keep the front planted. You probably need to try some negative angle on the strut to bring the nose down a little. Just try 1 degree down at a time. I have my strut all the way up in the factory location with 4 batteries and it works well.

[IRON-PAWW]

I too was thinking about ABC props as I think they might be the ticket. 50mm is about where I'd start. Earlier in the thread somebody mentioned a 2215 but that's around 55mm I think so you'd need to be careful.

If someone can sharpen & balance some ABC props for me I'd be interested. Not a skill I possess. Pm'd Dasboata but no reply as yet.

[Bexum]

I agree. I'm going to try a run with two extra 3s batteries for ballast until I get another set of 4s batteries. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll let you know what I get.

[Chado2448]

Guys I could use a little help here. Mine will only do 30 mph on stock prop and 36 on a 4814. Which is weird because it launches out of the water but never seems to pull. Even at those speeds it's bouncing the bow. I tried adjusting the strut but it didn't seem to help. It's is the same with 2 or 4 batteries. I'm running SMC 6500 60c

Sometimes when I first take off it will blip the throttle and cutout, the rudder still works and it beeps 8 times like when you first turn it on. Sometimes it does it twice but then goes just fine. Other times there is no issue at all. Here's a couple pics, tell me if you see anything. Thanks.
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[Keagan-Z06]

Maybe try reprogram your ESC? Just a try!

[Rafael_Lopez]

Guys I could use a little help here. Mine will only do 30 mph on stock prop and 36 on a 4814. Which is weird because it launches out of the water but never seems to pull. Even at those speeds it's bouncing the bow. I tried adjusting the strut but it didn't seem to help. It's is the same with 2 or 4 batteries. I'm running SMC 6500 60c

Sometimes when I first take off it will blip the throttle and cutout, the rudder still works and it beeps 8 times like when you first turn it on. Sometimes it does it twice but then goes just fine. Other times there is no issue at all. Here's a couple pics, tell me if you see anything. Thanks.
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More speed will lift the back end and calm the bouncing down. The bouncing is seen more in calm water than rough water due to width of the hull and the air trapped under it. We barely see this, if any at all under rough conditions.

Sounds like your ESC needs to be calibrated. The ESC has an auto calibrate feature, but if your TH trim knob is off center, it will not calibrate correctly.

[Jesse Flovin]

I've run consistent 60mph runs back to back on a slight ripple on the larger 52mm prop sharpened & balanced with 4 4s 6000mah 50c. 2 all the way up front of the lipo tray, 2 all the way back.

[Chado2448]

What's the process on recalibrating the esc? I centered all the trim knobs, and adjusted the strut all the way down. Got 47 out of it but now it seems it's lifting the stern way too much and the bounce is almost violent. Like it's lifting the stern out and landing on the right front sponson. I'm going to adjust the strut and try the 2 front and 2 back battery position.

[IRON-PAWW]

Jesse are your temps ok on that 52mm prop? Might give it a try. I'm also going a little slow at the moment and can't figure it out. Might check that throttle trim knob for next time the ESC auto calibrates. I assume there is no way manual calibrate the throttle range? My temps are barely warm so something isn't quite right somewhere.

[Jesse Flovin]

Temps are great, slightly warm to the touch no biggie. Here's a full speed pass on YouTube.

https://youtu.be/jFweqIQ8WJY

[Jesse Flovin]

The throttle trim knob will re calibrate when the esc is powered up, Regardless the position set. That's not going to get the speed ur looking for. The smaller of the two factory props is only good for just over 50mph or so, I found my electronics were hotter due to running higher throttle position on average. Plus the 48mm prop seems to have a ton of cavitation or slippage until higher speeds when the boat catches up with rpms.

[IRON-PAWW]

*Somethings* up with this new hull of mine. I've just gotten a mere 46mph setting the boat up the same as I had the previous hulls. I tried the same prop as before - the 48mm 1.4 pitch where I previously got 56mph (91km/h). Then today I tried a 48mm 1.6 pitch prop. That got me 1-2mph extra (to get the 46mph) but not much more. I should at least be able to get close to what I had before surely. Next I have OSE's own 48mm 3 blade CNC to try as well as some 52&53mm 2 bladers. But I figure if something's off I want to get that sorted first. Same batts as before.

Only thing I notice is that the boat's rear end does seem to really dig down and wallow in the turns, almost like it's dragging something, then the boat takes a bit to pick up speed again. Strut is fully extended (lowered down) at the limit of adjustment and with neutral angle. Seems I might need to lift the rear some more with this hull.

I got nowhere near as much oomph as you have Jesse. Nice lake there. Those cattle enjoyed the show!! :-)

[Chado2448]

I'm in the same boat as you PAWW ( pardon the pun ). I've adjusted the strut and battery position a million different ways and it is still bouncing terribly. Can some one share a pic or two of their strut placement? Here a video of mine, it does the same thing no matter what adjustments I make, glass or chop, don't make a difference.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=91JUEfyzOw0

[Rafael_Lopez]

I'm in the same boat as you PAWW ( pardon the pun ). I've adjusted the strut and battery position a million different ways and it is still bouncing terribly. Can some one share a pic or two of their strut placement? Here a video of mine, it does the same thing no matter what adjustments I make, glass or chop, don't make a difference.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=91JUEfyzOw0

This doesn't look like bounce to me. This looks like prop walk. What prop are you using? Is it perfectly balanced? The boat seems to be twisting to the left and then dropping, causing what seems like a bounce. I saw that when developing the boat with large props or unbalanced props; or both.

[Darin Jordan]

This doesn't look like bounce to me. This looks like prop walk. What prop are you using? Is it perfectly balanced? The boat seems to be twisting to the left and then dropping, causing what seems like a bounce. I saw that when developing the boat with large props or unbalanced props; or both.

Unsharpened props or dull leading edge props will do this as well...

[Rafael_Lopez]

Yup, thanks Darin. A dull prop will definitely do that as well.

[IRON-PAWW]

I've only ever had bounce like that at speed. In the 40's where I am now I only get a little bounce after long straight runs, but nothing too serious. Had it way back when I had my strut set too high as well. The prop walk I had looked sort of like a twisting motion - where one of the sponsons always seemed to dig in at the front and the whole hull just appeard to angle down on that spot and then jump back, exactly as Rafael also describes. Pretty much all my cnc props have needed some sharpening in the least. Some are actually quite dull along the leading edges of the blades. Close to the hub/centre in particular. But maybe just try a cnc prop if you have one to see if it makes a difference, generally they aren't too bad right out of the wrapping. Not perfect but good enough for a little testing.

[Rafael_Lopez]

Bouncing up and down is one thing, usually a CG issue or a prop with too much rake. Twisting like that, causing the bounce is prop walk.

[Tango Whiskey]

Hi, Rafael --
I'm new to FE boats (but not to RC, having played with many nitro planes, cars, and boats in the past), and just bought this Zelos 48. I'm not experienced enough to know how to tweak the boat for best performance, but it looks to be running very well as-is to me. After installing the rudder and antenna tube, greasing the drive cable, centering all the control trims on the Rx, and hooking up two 4S 5000mah 50C packs (positioning the packs as far forward as possible), I've done absolutely nothing to it. It's running the prop as-is right out of the box, with the strut position as it came out of the box. I haven't sharpened, polished or other wise modified the prop or rudder. I'm using the smaller prop that was already installed on it and haven't tried the larger prop. It seems to be gliding along the water at what I would consider the proper attitude and doesn't bounce. I have no idea what speed I'm getting and really don't care, as it's plenty fast for me, and impressed the heck out of bystanders at the lake. It corners very nicely, way better than I expected. If I had to guess by comparing it to the many videos I've seen of this and other boats, I'd say it's probably running around its advertised 55 mph speed. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it was exceeding that on full throttle straights. After 5-6 min run time, the esc and motor are both barely warm to touch, and the batt packs are warmer but not what I would consider hot. All components -- electronics, motor, batts, prop -- seem very well matched to the boat to me, but again, I'm new to the FE boat world, so I lack the experience of others here.

What I can say for certain is I am very pleased with the Zelos 48 and am really enjoying it so far! I realize no product is perfect and it's evident from this thread that some have shipped with problems. It appears from my untrained eye that mine was among the good ones, as I have looked it over carefully and construction and finish on mine appears to be flawless.

My only minor complaint is I wish the front edge of the cowl was secured by something more substantial than a small pin. I do use tape on the seam after installing the cowl, but I would still prefer the front edge of the cowl be secured by a ledge of some sort with more surface area of engagement. I'm afraid the small pin might eventually cause hull cracking around its mating hole due to repeated shock loads from bouncing along waves. I will probably glue some sort of lip that slides under the hatch opening to better secure that area.

Thanks for putting so much thought into this boat's development, sir!