The TFL Scale Build has begun....

[virnoche]

I will post more as I go but I started with a Traxxas Spartan hull.....more on that later.

This should get your minds racing. I picked up two of these and first impression is these units are BUILT WELL! So far the only drawback will be parts. I hope the MFG comes through for us and offers parts available through the dealers....so far nothing. I have researched and found a much better bellows for the water seal so far, more later.

Here is a pic of the unit sitting in its home.

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[Tamelesstgr]

DAM, that is SEXY :thumbup1:

[virnoche]

ok...so as it turns out the mounting holes and location for the Traxxas drive aligns PERFECT for the bottom of the TFP DRIVE! Made this installation an absolute BREEZE! The parts I made myself can made with common hand tools that anyone on HERE should have! :) More to come......

[virnoche]

and some more! :)

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[Tamelesstgr]

WHOA, awesome!

[flraptor07]

Isn't this suppose to be a submerged drive like a full scale IO? The way you have it mounted it's gonna be a surface drive.

[virnoche]

Isn't this suppose to be a submerged drive like a full scale IO? The way you have it mounted it's gonna be a surface drive.

NOPE! The Mercury drive this is scaled after is a surface drive. Its intended to be right where it is! :)

[virnoche]

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Ready to rock hopefully tonight.....all the electronics are in, I took the whole drive apart and made sure it was greased and all fasteners locktitied.....so tonight is the night. Build #2 starts this weekend. I will have dualling TFL boats so the kids can either play together or Dad can play too! with 16000 mah I am planning to run about 45 minutes to an hour without needing to charge. If my calcs are correct it should run in the high teens to low 20's for speed. Should be a GREAT scale experience.

[axel]

No progress?:confused2:

[virnoche]

No progress?:confused2:

Stay tuned to about 9PM SCT today.... I will post results of the testing and some video and photo. Overall great success with a few things that will need improvement.

[virnoche]

out of respect for this company and forum I am going to defer until I have had some correspondence with Steve. I will keep you updated.

[axel]

he thats the same as you would say its sh..

[virnoche]

he thats the same as you would say its sh..

When you see a glass as half empty all the time, this would be your thought. When I have talked with Steve I will update the thread. As you can see above, I am very pleased with the results of the running.

[axel]

ok i am looking forward you sharing your pleased results with us

[virnoche]

As you can see the boat itself went together very easy and actually looks quite nice! I'de say its a near perfect scale 30' Fountain with a Mercury NXT drive hanging off the back! No paint yet as of yet and my son is going to end up finishing this one. I'm guessing it will be colorful!

Lets go over the details of the P1 drive first and cover the first impressions from un-packaging. This drive is built very nice. The machining and the finish work on the parts is outstanding! After measuring this and comparing it to the real thing It is real close to 1/10 scale.
The engineering on how it is built is also quite notable. I have had the Graupner Z-Drive and quite frankly those aren't even in the same category as these TFL's. The way it mounts to the hull, and the easy ability to disassemble in the field is a big PLUS for this drive. In a matter of minutes you can have the drive apart with the mounts still in place. All of the important grub screws for the dog bone couplers are easily accessible for tightening should they loosen up.

Out of the box the unit was greased and probably ready to run, but I am stickler for blue Loctite on all threads on things that move. I took the entire drive apart and loctited with 242 all the grubs and the bolts that hold it all together. This was literally just a 5 minute job.

After this process I noted a few things that I had concerns about.
1) Gasket between the upper and lower halves is THIN
2) The seal between the drive and motor is not the proper length for this drive.
3) The screws that mount the drive to the gimbal ring are awful short
4) The Bolt to tighten the drive angle isn't possible to get a socket on the nut unless you adjust the drive all the way up

Ok...so on to the water! The firs time out I had real problems with the grub screws not staying put. After 4 trips home/water I ended up stopping at the local hardware store and picking up some new ones. I don't know if the factory aren't cut right or what, but the new grub screws seemed to hold ok....more on that after water part two. Over all the first time other than the grub screws was awesome! I GPS's it right at 25-26 m/p/h. this was a little faster than my target but that can be adjusted in the controller.
The next day was the durability test day. I had three sets of batteries charged and ready. I am using 3S 6400 mah in parallel for run #1, then 3S 5000 mah for run #2, then 2S 5400 mah for run #3. My target was to get an hour for #1, 45 minutes for #2 and 3. As it turned out I was about 45 minutes for #1, then 35 minutes for #2 and 40 minutes for #3. This is a LONG time to run any RC craft! I was actually getting bored! LOL!
After 10-15 minutes I was stopping and checking temperatures of the electronics and pumping a little grease into the very convenient ports for lubrication. After almost two hours of pretty much non-stop running the boat was put away until the following night when I planned on taking it apart to check things over.

Video of one of the runs....
https://youtu.be/XODREQu8BIA


The first thing I noticed is that somewhere along the line in the third run I lost the bottom mounting screw that holds the drive to the gimbal ring. I had already replaced the top screw with a longer one because after the first run I noticed that it was stripped due to being too short. I left the bottom one alone for this reason....to see if it would last. It didn't.
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Opening up the drive I noticed that the middle bevel gears were pretty shiny and the grub screw on the middle gear had loosened AGAIN! This gear being captive by its design allowed it to run because the grub stayed on the flat spot and the gear was able to just jump up and down.
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At this point I noticed that the gasket was very wet and fragile and no matter how careful I was It ripped.
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Accessing the bottom half of the lower unit turned out to be QUITE a challenge. The grub screw that holds the barrel in place that holds the final drive shaft was STUCK! and I mean STUCK! I thought I had it free when I started to try removing the barrel...as it turned out it wasn't free and I goobered up the flats.
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after a few hours of trying heat.....then acetone I finally got the grub screw out!!! what a pain in the arse! I don't know what held that in there so tight but the next issue might have something to do with it.

Here is what is left of the outer flanged bearing on the lower unit! The water was 75 degrees and very clear spring fed lake. I can't contribute the failure to dirty water or heat because I was checking that. I'm going to just say it was fluke bad bearing. The inside one was actually ok. I have these in stock from other RC projects so its replacement was easy and painless.

[virnoche]

What left of the bearings described in part two...
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Ok.....so continuing on with the build testing.
The Drive Dog had pretty severe wear even though the steering was setup and limited to only turn 35% of full lock. I believe this is happening because the take up for this adjustment isn't possible because the drive side is a fixed location because the coupler holds the top drive shaft in location. I would like to see the dogbone gone on this drive and a square drive coupler on the motor side with a flexible shaft and a fixed coupler on the drive side. This would allow the small amount of movement for steering and a much smoother and durable end product.
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Being that we are the subject of improvements.....Traxxas drive shaft seals ends cut and glued together makes a PERFECT seal for the drive motor housing.
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Blue painters tape makes a damn good gasket when you tear yours....
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My overall impression of this drive is that it is well built! Don't let the pictures and descriptions scare you! This drive is brand new on the market and although those of us whom take the plunge and do some of the R&D for TFL the end result for version 2 will be ROCK SOLID! They are SOOO CLOSE right now, it just needs some minor tweaks to make this a near perfect drive.

I've reassembled the drive and don't know how much longer the center gears will last.....all I can do is run them and hope for the best. I have spoke with Steve and am confident the MFG will take care of the us Beta Testers. I bought TWO of these right from the get go, so I am already working on this boats twin so my sons and I can make a bouy course and do some fair scale racing. Being they will be identical it will be up to the driver to make good turns and decisions to win a race. Should be fun.

[Tamelesstgr]

Excellent write up, thanks for sharing. What is your overall impression of a steerable drive versus a strut with rudder and turn fins?

[virnoche]

Excellent write up, thanks for sharing. What is your overall impression of a steerable drive versus a strut with rudder and turn fins?

well.....having only one other boat (Exeed Vyper) I would say that I can't compare what you asked. I am a stickler though for accuracy and being a boat owner I have to say that this RC drive is about as 'real' a fake experience as you can get! Right along with the maintenance! LOL! I turned the steering control to only 35% so not to wear the dogbone drive shaft. Even with this moderate amount of steering it turned pretty much on a dime and left some change.

[axel]

well if you want to race you have to stay conventionel
a z drive allways needs a lot of maintanance thats my experience with Graupner Z600 -Z800- Blackhawk and S6 from MHZ.
But i love the scale look.

[virnoche]

next project.......thermosiphon cooling system! :) no pickups or tubing on the back of the boat!

[virnoche]

Tow vehicle and twins!!!! The second tow vehicle will be a FJ Landcruiser....gunna be SWEEET!

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[Tamelesstgr]

Dang, I need more toys

[virnoche]

The props came in!!!!

Exact replicas off the Mercury racing props.....should be interesting to see how they perform.
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[axel]

Are those propshop?

[virnoche]

Are those propshop?

Well YES, YES they ARE Prop Shop! I hope the don't need balancing! OMG that would be a nightmare!!!!!

[axel]

well you can start your nightmare they need balancing and a good one has only about 2third to half the weight of a raw one

[lonewolf]

Im guessing an amp surge also??? hmmmm Ill be watching this.... I hope all goes well