nissan GTR..... sucks?

[Eyekandyboats]

2 brand new Skyrines show up at a SE Wisc. drag strip with dealer plates and plastic still on the interior...

LOL these cars are from rossen Nissan. and arrived with dealer plates which then got taken off. i hope they dont sell these as new...
BTW these cars are meant so that a guy who has never done any racing can win, when its all electrically controlled.. all you have to do is floor it and go.
BTW the Nissan engines are hand built and the h/p is 480 but people have dyno-ed engines any where from 415-500 h/p because of the hand built variances

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w52/jdinmaui/dealerdrag-002.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w52/jdinmaui/dealerdrag-003.jpg
And the most embarrassing part of it all.................. holy crap son.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w52/jdinmaui/IMG_8725900.jpg

[Ub Hauled]

you mean Nissan Skylines...
they are good cars, but here in the us die to the emissions code, they don't have that much power...
actually, I have not seen one for sale around here.

[Eyekandyboats]

no i mean GTR...
emissions codes. no they pass with out any problems right from the factory.

and you have never seen one around because there are only 12 in north america at the moment and none of them have left the dealer ships

[Spot Me 2]

They have the same HP. I can't explain the time difference, but they have the same MPH.
The cars weigh the same, and it takes xxxHP to move a said weight 1320ft to that mph.

[Eyekandyboats]

They have the same HP.
same h/p written down on paper.
but realistic h/p NO they don't. its a fact there engines vary much in terms of h/p due to them being hand built.

[Fluid]

same h/p written down on paper. but realistic h/p NO they don't. its a fact there engines vary much in terms of h/p due to them being hand built.
That is actually a**-backwards Taylor. Handbuilt engines have LESS variability than do mass-produced engines - that's why they hand build them, the quality is much better and they are 'blueprinted' to be as identical as possible. Your 'dyno numbers' are probably taken at the wheels, so the actual flywheel hp is considerably more. (Or did they pull the engines out of the cars to test them? Not likely.) The different dyno numbers are surely due to the use of different dynos - for example Mustang dynos typically give lower numbers than do DynaJet dynos with the same vehicle. Some shops do a better job of keeping their dynos calibrated than other do too. And some shops simply cheat.....

It is very easy for an experienced drag racer to explain the time differences between the two cars - the driver in the right lane is better, had less wheel spin and hooked up harder, didn't miss a shift, etc. The virtually identical trap speeds are an indication of horsepower; ET is more about torque, traction and driver skill. The identical trap speeds tells the story - same hp in both cars.


.

[Eyekandyboats]

thanks Jay.
but machines do one job correctly. they do everything the exact same until something brakes down and then every thing stops.
there job is simple. preform one task with computer precise accuracy. its simple.
if i get my CNC machine to cut me 4 pieces of hardware for a boat.... every single piece of hardware will be exactly the same.
if i get a human to do the same 4 pieces on a "manual mill" each piece will be slightly different and wont be 100% identical.
Okay yes you doing it by hand might be more accurate. but not consistent like a machine.
If i say i will be making a engine putting out 480 h/p i expect that. and lets say the drive train has maybe a 19-22% loss in power due to its 4wd system. then i could see roughly 380-410 h/p at the wheels.
there is alot of information out there regarding the engine variances, and it is true that each engine puts out a different h/p
regardless if the numbers were taken at the wheel or not they should be some what consistent.
not all over the board from 415 h/p to over 500 at the wheels.
i highly doubt even two different manufactured dynos are off THAT much. if they are then i guess i should take my car to the one that ran the GTR up to 500 h/p


drag racing is also the beauty of this car. the car has launch control and full settings so even a totally newbie can drag this car, floor it and go, the launch control changes with the way the engine reacts with the temperate but still the cars are both in the same area.
even if say the driver had a reaction time problem, one second is a hell of alot of time.

[supafastsupra2]

no i mean GTR...
emissions codes. no they pass with out any problems right from the factory.

and you have never seen one around because there are only 12 in north america at the moment and none of them have left the dealer ships

i don't know who told you that but i've seen a few around here and know one that's been modded to hell already :rockon2:

[Fluid]

Taylor you clearly do not understand how factory engines are built. Visit an engine assembly plant sometime and watch. All factory parts are built to tolerances, not all of them are identical; how can they be, they are sourced from all over the world. CNC? Right, lots of those parts in a Nissan. The fact is that 'handbuilt' engines - as Nissan means it - are superior to factory. Think about it Taylor - why would Nissan use that technique on their premium performance vehicle if it wasn't better? I have built over a dozen of my own V-8 and I4 racing engines - believe me, hand-built means blueprinting where all parts are measured to far tighter tolerences than on any factory engine. I'm certain that if you called NISMO or the factory racing team they'd tell you the same thing.... ;)

Since I have over 50 dyno runs on my personal vehicles at numerous shops, and you have only your own opinion and 'doubt' about how dynos work - you'd better quit while you're ahead. :sarcasm1:

Reaction time has nothing to do with ET - how many 1/4 mile passes have you actually made? Not even the sainted GTR is idiot proof. Come back to me in 10 years after you have more actual life experience if you want to talk car 'facts', instead of what you read someplace online. No, make that 30 years - that's how long since I made my first pass..... ;)


.

[Ub Hauled]

Come back to me in 10 years after you have more actual life experience if you want to talk car 'facts', instead of what you read someplace online. No, make that 30 years - that's how long since I made my first pass..... ;)


Touché.

[teach]

Finally I can talk about something on these forums I know about.

I'm a GTR tech in Colorado and have driven 4 of these. The dealership I work at has sold 2 this year (that's as many as our dealership is allowed to sell). The GTR has what is called launch control. For drag racers out there it's basicaly a line lock. Leave that car in drive with the trans in race mode and it will shift faster then you will. It's classified as an automatic but it should be looked at as a manual that shifts itself. No torque convertor for the motor heads here. The inside is built like a manual. Another thing about launch control. We (nissan employees) are never to tell people that it even exists:zip-up:. It's really hard in the trans.:flashfire:

Not sure what the ET diffence is coming from. One of the drivers, guessing the guy on the left, turned off the traction control and broke the wheels loose. With the TCS on I could NEVER get the car to launch bad. Another thing, looking at the rims, notice how one has a darker finish. The lighter finish has a more wintery tire. A little trivia question there. Winter package=lighter colored rims. That would also help the car on the right leave the line better.

Would you believe those two cars have a special paint finish? $3000 extra for the silver.

[domwilson]

That is actually a**-backwards Taylor. Handbuilt engines have LESS variability than do mass-produced engines - that's why they hand build them, the quality is much better and they are 'blueprinted' to be as identical as possible. Your 'dyno numbers' are probably taken at the wheels, so the actual flywheel hp is considerably more. (Or did they pull the engines out of the cars to test them? Not likely.) The different dyno numbers are surely due to the use of different dynos - for example Mustang dynos typically give lower numbers than do DynaJet dynos with the same vehicle. Some shops do a better job of keeping their dynos calibrated than other do too. And some shops simply cheat.....

It is very easy for an experienced drag racer to explain the time differences between the two cars - the driver in the right lane is better, had less wheel spin and hooked up harder, didn't miss a shift, etc. The virtually identical trap speeds are an indication of horsepower; ET is more about torque, traction and driver skill. The identical trap speeds tells the story - same hp in both cars.


.

Well explained. :iagree:Hand built can mean alot of things. Each is hand assembled from precision parts within defined tolerances or in the case of the older Roll Royces, the engine blocks and internal parts were hand cast and machined.

[Ub Hauled]

A little more info:
http://www.gtrnissan.com/

[domwilson]

Taylor you clearly do not understand how factory engines are built. Visit an engine assembly plant sometime and watch. All factory parts are built to tolerances, not all of them are identical; how can they be, they are sourced from all over the world. CNC? Right, lots of those parts in a Nissan. The fact is that 'handbuilt' engines - as Nissan means it - are superior to factory. Think about it Taylor - why would Nissan use that technique on their premium performance vehicle if it wasn't better? I have built over a dozen of my own V-8 and I4 racing engines - believe me, hand-built means blueprinting where all parts are measured to far tighter tolerences than on any factory engine. I'm certain that if you called NISMO or the factory racing team they'd tell you the same thing.... ;)

Since I have over 50 dyno runs on my personal vehicles at numerous shops, and you have only your own opinion and 'doubt' about how dynos work - you'd better quit while you're ahead. :sarcasm1:

Reaction time has nothing to do with ET - how many 1/4 mile passes have you actually made? Not even the sainted GTR is idiot proof. Come back to me in 10 years after you have more actual life experience if you want to talk car 'facts', instead of what you read someplace online. No, make that 30 years - that's how long since I made my first pass..... ;)


.

That's how long it's been for me as well. I have built alot of engines myself both professionally and personally. Ah...the good ol' days. Man, machine and no computers. :confused2: I agree with you wholeheartedly on the facts.

[Norcal2500HD]

this was at sacramento raceway a few weeks back....
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k138/cmdphotography/Sac%20Raceway/9-13-2008/c59b583c.jpg
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k138/cmdphotography/Sac%20Raceway/9-13-2008/4910be37.jpg

[Steven Vaccaro]

It is very easy for an experienced drag racer to explain the time differences between the two cars - the driver in the right lane is better, had less wheel spin and hooked up harder, didn't miss a shift, etc. The virtually identical trap speeds are an indication of horsepower; ET is more about torque, traction and driver skill. The identical trap speeds tells the story - same hp in both cars.



I used to race the 1/4 with some friends on the open night at the local drag strip. Jays correct. MPH at the trap is an indication that each car has "about" the same HP. There is a formula used to figure out hp by using trap mph.

[duncanjerry]

I was on a waiting list for a gtr for over a year. Once they came in the dealer stuck a $20,000 premium on top of the $74,000. I'll give it a few years.

[Steven Vaccaro]

I was on a waiting list for a gtr for over a year. Once they came in the dealer stuck a $20,000 premium on top of the $74,000. I'll give it a few years.


LOL, tell them to keep it! And get a real car. Get the 505hp 2009 Corvette. $77k and with the way GM and the economy is headed you can probably get $5-$15k off that car. :buttrock:

[teach]

I was on a waiting list for a gtr for over a year. Once they came in the dealer stuck a $20,000 premium on top of the $74,000. I'll give it a few years.

Duncan sorry to say that is common with the GTRs. We sold our first one at list, second one 5k over. The buyer of the first turned around and sold his within a week at 15k over his price. The second one sits in my stall. Been there over 3 weeks now, even after the buyer paid for it :cursing: . You are better to wait anyways. I really don't see the mark up ever going away anytime soon. We have both of our sold for next year at 7k over. Both out of state. To boot we have a rumored SpecV GTR coming out. I was told (again rumors, but from a very good source) they have a 900 horse being tested in Japan. Of course that will NEVER be produced but the fact that it's possible says a little.

Mr. Vaccaro with all due respect the Corvettes have been a joke of thier former glory for to many years. I would wait to see what the folks at motor trend or the other hot rodders oput there say.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Mr. Vaccaro with all due respect the Corvettes have been a joke of thier former glory for to many years. I would wait to see what the folks at motor trend or the other hot rodders oput there say.

I have to disagree there.

In the streets around here(Massachusetts) there is no slalom racing going on. But plenty of 0-60 or 1/4 mile stuff(not that I condone either!!!). According to Motor Trend the GTR ran 0-60 in 3.7 sec, the Corvette ran the same. Quarter mile they are about equal as well in time. The vette is about 1/10 faster but 6mph faster through the traps. Which probably means the vette had a rough take off or tire spin during the gear change.

I would keep the $20k that the Nissan dealer wants over sticker and have a big party :thumbup1:

Not to mention no rice burner would ever be left to sleep in my stable! :tongue_smilie: I have three cars in my driveway. All proudy adorn an American badge. :usa: :usa:

[Norcal2500HD]

Get the 505hp 2009 Corvette. $77k and with the way GM and the economy is headed you can probably get $5-$15k off that car. :buttrock:

2009 ZR-1 for the win!!!
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/Kriznips/ZR1/DSC_3330.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/Kriznips/ZR1/DSC_3223.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/Kriznips/ZR1/DSC_3293.jpg

[Steven Vaccaro]

What a car. But its another "limited" production run that the Dealers are holding people up for. My Chevy dealer near me is the Number 1 selling vette dealer in Massachusetts's. He was not alloted one of those.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Norcal 2500hd is that your car? Well even if it isnt and you get to drive in it, I still :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown: bow down to you. As a Chevy fan to the death you have me drooling on my keyboard :bounce:.

[Norcal2500HD]

No that was actually the test car Gm gave to the tv show Top Gear. They just filmed a tv show here on the west coast. The cars they tested were the 09 zr1, the 09 cadillac cts-v and a 09 challenger.

the cars were shipped to san francisco, flogged around the city, driven to reno for some safety equipment and then driven to boneville.

So this is what I "hear" about the cars :zip-up:

The vette is a powerhouse, no doubt. Pulls from 100 to 160 like a freight train. sounds incredible, stops excellent. Will haze the tires from 1st to 4th w/o any hesitation....only problem is keeping the car in line and not having the rear end wander all over the place.

the challenger...well it was boring.

CTS-V.....550hp supercharged 4dr family car......talk about a wolf in sheeps clothing. handles great, pulls hard, looks great.....think thats going to be added to the fleet next.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/Kriznips/ZR1/DSC_3225.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/Kriznips/ZR1/DSC_3273.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/Kriznips/ZR1/DSC_3305.jpg

[Steven Vaccaro]

I would love to see the 4 door as a convertible!

[teach]

I have to disagree there.

In the streets around here(Massachusetts) there is no slalom racing going on. But plenty of 0-60 or 1/4 mile stuff(not that I condone either!!!). According to Motor Trend the GTR ran 0-60 in 3.7 sec, the Corvette ran the same. Quarter mile they are about equal as well in time. The vette is about 1/10 faster but 6mph faster through the traps. Which probably means the vette had a rough take off or tire spin during the gear change.

I would keep the $20k that the Nissan dealer wants over sticker and have a big party :thumbup1:

Not to mention no rice burner would ever be left to sleep in my stable! :tongue_smilie: I have three cars in my driveway. All proudy adorn an American badge. :usa: :usa:

For the life of me I can not find a review of the Vette. All I seem to find are 2008. I'm finding speculations of a $100,00 ZR-1. Looks promising though. I too was a huge Chevy fan. Every drag car I owned was chevy powered.

As to the American badges, where were they actually made? :sarcasm1:

[Steven Vaccaro]

As to the American badges, where were they actually made? :sarcasm1:


HAHA you got me there!

[teach]

HAHA you got me there!

I'm glad that came out right. I didn't want to sound like an elitist jerk.

[ace028]

First of all Nissan GTR and sucks sould not be used in the same sentence. (title to thread)

I use to work at a nissan dealer, it was a great car line to work for, dispite my dealer being cheap, well I went to factory school, and heard about the GTR, I was excited, I knew how awsome the skyline is, and a skyline for america would be awsome, well after being called up from a mercedes dealer, wanting me to go work there, I couldn't resist, the pay is better and benifits are better, needless to say my fellow workers at nissan were also excited about the GTR, so after I left to go work for mercedes, I found out from one of my friends at nissan that they didn't want to sell it there because they didn't want to invest in tools, and lift. How dumb is that, where I lived before in Redding, Ca there is a lot of rich people, some own half the city. This car would surely have been sold before it got to the dealer, if I was rich enough I would buy it.

Now being a proud american, I would love to support our economy and buy american, but I don't think that our cars are even made here in america, or at least most of the parts aren't. From looking at past corvette models, I dont think that they are even close to japaneese quality. Every gm car I have been in, felt so cheap. When I get in my 88 honda prelude with 250k on it, I can still feel the quality, though things getting old on it. Now I would but a chevy truck, but I don't think that the quality is up to par with toyota. (nissan titan don't count engine-trans=good, rest = cheap) Why are the japanesse cars so much better in quality? Hope I don't offend anyone, its just my opinion, from what I noticed working on cars.

teach, when I was at nissan school, they were saying that the training for the GTR that you would have to go to japan for 6 weeks. That is what a instructor told me, it sounded far fetched to me, what dealer is going to pay for that? I work on 100k plus mercedes and we don't get to go to germany for 6 weeks. If you did, can I come work with you so I can go to japan, and drive the GTR! :bounce:

[teach]

teach, when I was at nissan school, they were saying that the training for the GTR that you would have to go to japan for 6 weeks. That is what a instructor told me, it sounded far fetched to me, what dealer is going to pay for that? I work on 100k plus mercedes and we don't get to go to germany for 6 weeks. If you did, can I come work with you so I can go to japan, and drive the GTR! :bounce:

Nah the owners threw a giant fit so we didn't get to go. Did you go to the school in Pleasanton? The total cost to sell the GT-R was a few hundred bucks under $57k for us.

As to driving it, ya it's a thrill. I never try to look at customer cars as toys but......cmon, I couldn't help but let loose once. I live in Colorado so they didn't run as well as the others I drove but WOW. We have a 20 mile highway that is always empty with decent pavement. The take off wasn't as brutal as my old drag cars but after the initial 10-15 feet hold the (insert curse word) on. It just keeps pulling.

[Eyekandyboats]

2009 CTS V is totaly awesome.
its fabulous however my 2005 STS-V is just as fun.
i plan on getting the 2010 DT7-V with 670 h/p once they release it
the DT7 is a mix of the STS and the DTS

i had a 08 CTS V for a week and a half when my other one got hit ( second hit)..
it was very fun but the STS V is better from a boat stand point.
then i got my DTS which is even better.
i love them all and super fun car... even the 300 h/p N* cars are very suprising.

[ace028]

Nah the owners threw a giant fit so we didn't get to go. Did you go to the school in Pleasanton? The total cost to sell the GT-R was a few hundred bucks under $57k for us.

As to driving it, ya it's a thrill. I never try to look at customer cars as toys but......cmon, I couldn't help but let loose once. I live in Colorado so they didn't run as well as the others I drove but WOW. We have a 20 mile highway that is always empty with decent pavement. The take off wasn't as brutal as my old drag cars but after the initial 10-15 feet hold the (insert curse word) on. It just keeps pulling.

Yeah, I went to the one in pleasonton, did you ever have to go to that one? Once when I went we had people from a different state. I haven't went to mercedes training yet, but the pleasonton nissan training shop is really nice! So then its true that you have to go to japan for the training. The instructor said what would probably would happen is that the instructors would go, then they would teach it in the states. Well I never think of customer cars as toys but giving half throttle or so you can tell the power is there. I wonder if it feels like a AMG SLK 55, or AMG C63? ITs cool to meet nissan guys! I'm a datsun 510 guy at heart, even though I don't have one, but will in the future, I may be lame, but its my favorate car of all time! :thumbup1:
Test Edit

[Norcal2500HD]

those little 510s are awesome.....had a guy keeping up with us on one of the local roads while were were on the supermoto's....at the end of the road we all pulled over and started talking.......i want to say it was a 70' but it had a 13b rotary in it with a nice little turbo....

[ace028]

those little 510s are awesome.....had a guy keeping up with us on one of the local roads while were were on the supermoto's....at the end of the road we all pulled over and started talking.......i want to say it was a 70' but it had a 13b rotary in it with a nice little turbo....


Was it burgandy/red? I went to a datsun car show, this guy had a really nice burgandy/red one, he was from california, cant remember if it was san jose or So cal, nice guy! Personaly I plan to swap a sr20det blacktop motor with 6 speed manual trans.

[Norcal2500HD]

It was actually primered. Guess he had just did the swap a few months prior. the road we were on we know like the back of our hand and were riding at a pretty fast clip and this guy was on our tail the whole time.......caught us off guard.

[obrien]

here is a nice bit of info on the quality GTR. With this I can say that the GTR and sucks can go in the same sentence.

http://need2speed.com/vb_forums/showthread.php?t=52383

I realize the guy may have abused his new car, but it should hold up better than it did. Then there is the $20k he is going to have to pay to buy a new trans.

Even better is that the new owners of the GTRs have to sign a 3 page waiver saying they won't turn off the VDC.

[Eyekandyboats]

no kidding. why include something that can not be used

[teach]

I wonder how many times Earnhardt took his car to a Chevy dealership when he blew a tranny? :sarcasm1:

I think most people know if you abuse something, it's gonna break.

[ace028]

Hmmm, that is interesting, but I still wouldn't say that the GTR sucks. If nissan is smart they will take care of this problem. That is stupid though, I can understand not warrentying abuse, but to not warrenty a advertised feature is lame, if I had one, I would want to use that feature, but at the expense of voiding the warrenty, that is enough reason for me to not buy it.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Hmmm, that is interesting, but I still wouldn't say that the GTR sucks. If nissan is smart they will take care of this problem. That is stupid though, I can understand not warrentying abuse, but to not warrenty a advertised feature is lame, if I had one, I would want to use that feature, but at the expense of voiding the warrenty, that is enough reason for me to not buy it.


I believe abuse of a sports car runs a fine line. If I buy a sports car with 400-500hp, I'm going to stomp on it here and there. Thats not abuse, thats using the car for what it was made to do. Abuse of a sports car to me is dumping the clutch from a dead stop or side stepping the clutch for short shifts. I read some of the articles in the link. Nissan sells a car that they brag, runs 3.7sec 0-60 but can only do it with if you click a switch that voids the warranty. Anyone else besides me see a problem with this? :ThumbsDown01:

Welcome to the age of big brother. We are being tracked more than we know.

[ace028]

My opinion is that nissan probably looks at it like this, when you drag race, stuff breaks, espicially at launch, so they figure if you turn on LC, then your racing, and they arn't responsible. Which kinda makes since, but is lame too, there is going to be a lot of unhappy customers with broken trannys. This car is ment to be raced, if not then why include attezza feature and launch control, why have 400+ HP and 3.7 sec times. I hope nissan steps up to the plate and takes care of this problem, I can't afford one of these cars, but I have had my hopes up when I heard about it, and to see such a promising car, have a huge weak link really sucks. I don't think there is any other car that can compare for the price, but with 20k trannys maybe I will rethink that.

[teach]

I believe abuse of a sports car runs a fine line. If I buy a sports car with 400-500hp, I'm going to stomp on it here and there. Thats not abuse, thats using the car for what it was made to do. Abuse of a sports car to me is dumping the clutch from a dead stop or side stepping the clutch for short shifts.

Welcome to the age of big brother. We are being tracked more than we know.

Bingo, launch control is the exact same thing as dumping the clutch. Do that over 20 times in the first week you have it? Should it have broke? Personally I think so. Nothing....NOTHING, is fool proof. As a tech I see some of the silly stuff folks do to cars. 30k oil changes, removing air filters, jumping....the worse one I remember is a guy wanting his bed replaced because dropped about 3 tons of lumber (that was his number) from 10 foot high conveyer :doh: There is always 2 sides of a story.

Mr. Vaccaro the big brother comment is dead one. That car records every damn thing you do. Right down to when you changed the air filters. A little scary really. If you change the wing, it knows and is stored. That's how sensitive it is.

[j.m.]

Don't really know if this would be the right place to put this, but I've always wanted one of these:
http://www.factoryfive.com/rdsterhome.html

This chart says it all:
http://www.factoryfive.com/roadster/performance/chart.html

And for a little more, the MK3 could beat all of those others.

[ace028]

Don't really know if this would be the right place to put this, but I've always wanted one of these:
http://www.factoryfive.com/rdsterhome.html

This chart says it all:
http://www.factoryfive.com/roadster/performance/chart.html

And for a little more, the MK3 could beat all of those others.

If you want to talk about kit cars, this one is awsome, and includes every nut and bolt to make the car, minus the motor (your choice of power) This car is awsome, but is a little expensive, well a lot expensive, but to have the satisfaction of building your own car is priceless.

http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/

This link is awsome, but its not a kit car, I wish I had just half of his talent!

http://jalopnik.com/5065896/hand+made-lamborghini-built-in-basement-finally-sees-light-of-day

[j.m.]

The factory five is available in an all-inclusive kit w/ everything minus motor and trans for $19000.

Check out some of factory five's other cars:
http://www.factoryfive.com/

They just cam out with the '33 hot rod. Check out the front shock setup!

[teach]

I know it'll never happen but a '66 Nova is my dream car.

[ace028]

I have lots of dream cars, but right now the one on top is one I don't have to work on lol, (my poor little honda's getting old):tongue_smilie: