Winston eagle Lobster-ML Boatworks Extreme 1/8 scale frame kit-my build

[Agitator]

I just took delivery last week of this new frame kit from Mike. I have to say, I have built a few of his kits over the last couple of years, but this one is special. Mike always seem to 'push the edge of the envelope' out just a bit more. These are just amazing kits. The original Lobster was built for Steve Woomer Racing by Jim Lucero and was nothing short of the strangest looking hydro built to date. The original, however, just did not perform as expected. The models of this boat, however, have been very successful and this next step with Mike's kit should prove to be a very good performer, and it just looks cool. The best example I can show right now, is this. I also have one Mike's T-6 Extreme kits and the shipping weight was 14 lbs. The shipping weight on the Lobster frame was 8 lbs. Gives an idea of what the finished weight may be. I'm going to use R/C Boat Company's cowl, wings, graphics from Mike McKnight and power will be a Scorpion 4035/800 on 10s. SCU to be determined. One challenge on this boat is the narrow tub-4 3/8" so I ordered a mount from Mini RC Meca that will work just right and keep the COG low. At this point, I have identified the parts (no instructions remember) and have started on the main wings/sponson supports and framed up the rear shoes. All the parts almost fall together, all toy-tabbed for proper alignment, just need to knock off the 'laser glaze' from the edges. Mike even includes the skins for the main wings.
I won't start the tub assembly until I get the cowl, but Mike has added a very neat feature to this tub,and hope he adds this to later kits. More on that later.

Michael

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[cybercrxt]

Big thumbs up for starting a build thread Michael! I will be adding to this as well. I have to start one for a friend in the next week, so I will be building right along with you! More soon, Mike

[Agitator]

Cool! Will be interesting to see how the same boat is built by 2 different guys at the same time. BTW, I sent you an email.

Michael

[cybercrxt]

Let me check and see if I can find it. I was on vacation last week, so I may have missed it! Mike

[Agitator]

Let me check and see if I can find it. I was on vacation last week, so I may have missed it! Mike

I resent it in case it didn't go through. You know how screwy my email is....lol

[Agitator]

Have gotten quite a bit done, now the weather is warming up, I can really get work on this. Everything is framed up, sponsons, wings, rear shoes. Just starting the tub, and I have to say, after building Mike's T-4, which has a very narrow tub, this one is a bit easier as it has a bit more room. I am using carbon fiber tubing for all the cross supports, much lighter than wood dowels, (and straighter too). Battery selection should not be too much of an issue-these are Hyperion 4s packs, plan on running 5s. Will have to do a bit of trimming to fit the motor mount. Probably one of the most precise frame kits Mike has produced. I am planning on active canard flaps, just have to see if I have enough space to do what I want to try. One thing about this beast, you will have to keep the back end as light as possible, but it has to be strong enough to bear the load of the strut and rudder. Not to mention the weight of the rear wings and turbine tube. The goal is to try to keep it around 12-14 lbs finished weight. Stay tuned.

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[785boats]

Looking good.
I love watching these builds come together.

[cybercrxt]

I am finally working on Todd's build. Here are some pics. Mike

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e324/spoonefcrx/WinstonLobsterExtreme/20150418_190251%20Large_zpshvo9ui3c.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e324/spoonefcrx/WinstonLobsterExtreme/20150418_190325%20Large_zpslj7laf5i.jpg

[785boats]

Hey Mike.
I see that you also build in the lounge room while watching TV.
Love it.

Paul.

[cybercrxt]

Yup, haha. I do as much as I can inside, then when the sanding starts...back outside!

[Agitator]

Worked on motor placement for a bit, see how much of the mount I will have to trim, and how much space I will have for batteries. Not too sure about the cross brace rods as to if I should cut them off inside the tub after everything is together or leave them whole. I know using the carbon tube I have, it would certainly be rigid, and the floor will be carboned, but could gain a bit more battery room by cutting the front one. Plenty of room for Hyperion 5s 500mah packs X2, but I don't think the Giant power 6000mah will fit. Will trim the mount ahead of the front cross tube, and have plenty of space for a good stuffing tube angle and miss the rear CF tube.

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[Agitator]

Nice big box from RC Boat Company was waiting for me, so now the real fun can start. The cowl is a very close fit! Also installed the motor mount, shaft tube and mounted the strut. Will still be a lot of careful trimming to seat the cowl properly, will be held in place with magnets from Magcraft with a couple of guide pins. Hope to have the cowl close to fitting by the weekend.

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[Speed810]

Mike....

Nice looking build. Is this built on the same concept as Mike's extreme series? Seems like there's not a lot of alignment type things necessary.

What is the motor your using? Quite a heavy duty coupler too...Where did you get that?

Mike

[Agitator]

It is actually Mike's extreme version of this boat, goes together very quickly. I'm using a Scorpion 4035/800kv motor with a Mini RC Meca mount. coupler is one of Jeff Wohlt's 'big dog' couplers 8mm to 1/4". http://rcraceboat.com/StoreCoupler.html
uses 4 set screws on the motor, so both sides of the shaft need flats, and uses 8 set screws to retain the cable. very secure and trouble free, I use them on all my 1/8 scales.

[Agitator]

After a lot of sanding, prodding, stretching, and a little heat, the cowl is fit. Hold downs are 2-10.7lb pull disc magnets in front and 4 8.7lb pull in the back mounted under the cross brace/divider of the 2 decks. I added 3/16" basswood strips to each side running the full length of the cowl. Next step is to install and finish off the intake on the cowl, then a little epoxy/glass/cf tissue to eliminate the seam. I also finished off the rear shoes, adding CF tissue to the ride pads and will do the same on the sponsons as this area gets a lot of abuse pounding the water. Once the cowl work is finished off, then will complete the sponsons/wings and start assembly. Still trying to figure out how to make the front wings move as I have not found a 3ch pistol radio with a proportional 3rd channel. Any ideas?
MIchael

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[ray schrauwen]

Very nice build and it's great to see another 1/8th scale using an outrunner. Outrunners sound very cool in hydroplanes, almost turbine like...\

Do you know what timing and pwm settings you will use for the Scorpion motor? I have outrunners and ran them a few times but, never know if I'm using them right.

Scale boat builds are pretty intense. It would take me forever to do this so, Ill just enjoy your handy work.

[Agitator]

These are the specs from Scorpion, as these were designed for heli use, the set the timing at 5, but i run mine between 5 and 7.5, where ever it is 'happiest' depending on which boat. I usually run 8s, and this new boat will be 10s, so I'm not sure yet where I will find the sweet spot. I have 4 1/8 scales running Scorpion 4035/800s and 2 running Neu 1527 1.5y

Specifications

Stator Diameter 40 mm (1.56 in)
Stator Thickness 35 mm (1.024 in)
No. of Stator Arms 12
Magnet Poles 8
Motor Wind 6 Turn Delta
Motor Wire 27 - Strand 0.29mm
Motor Kv 800KV RPM / Volt
No-Load Current (IO) 2.5 Amps @ 8.4v
Motor Resistance (RM) 0.010 Ohms
Max Continuous Current 100 Amps
Max Continuous Power 4200 Watts
Weight 435 Grams (15.34 oz)
Outside Diameter 48.9 mm (1.9 in)
Shaft Diameter 7.98 mm (0.30 in)
Body Length 61.5 mm (2.38 in)
Overall Shaft Length 94.7 mm (3.73 in)
Max Lipo Cell 12s
Motor Timing 5deg
Drive Frequency 8kHz

[ray schrauwen]

Scorpion makes some nice boat versions too with water cooling. More expensive but, very nice motors. I really like the 3026-2300kv motor which would be killer in a 4S hydroplane.

[meangenesracing]

Agitator, I think you know I'm building one of these to and i see your putting your strut through the bottom not on the transom may i ask how you will make adjustments?

[Agitator]

Agitator, I think you know I'm building one of these to and i see your putting your strut through the bottom not on the transom may i ask how you will make adjustments?

Not sure I understand. The struts on 1/8 scales always exit the bottom as the rear of the strut should be under the transom, not behind it. Some like to mount the bracket to the transom, but the strut still goes through the bottom of the boat. I like to spread the stress a little, and as this particular hull has such a narrow transom, I feel just the stress of the rudder is all I want, and the strut load is spread through the floor. The transom on mine is 7/16" thick as I added a piece inside cut out of 3/16" ply and the floor where the strut mounts is 1/4" thick, again adding a piece of 3/16" ply. I am going to swap out the mounting brackets though and use Accutech brackets as they will allow me to drop the strut a little deeper than the Speedmaster strut bracket.

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[Brushless55]

These are the specs from Scorpion, as these were designed for heli use, the set the timing at 5, but i run mine between 5 and 7.5, where ever it is 'happiest' depending on which boat. I usually run 8s, and this new boat will be 10s, so I'm not sure yet where I will find the sweet spot. I have 4 1/8 scales running Scorpion 4035/800s and 2 running Neu 1527 1.5y


what do you think of the Scorpion motors ?


Scorpion makes some nice boat versions too with water cooling. More expensive but, very nice motors. I really like the 3026-2300kv motor which would be killer in a 4S hydroplane.

I was on the MHZ website last night and almost picked one up to try in a PHydro :biggrin:

[meangenesracing]

Not sure I understand. The struts on 1/8 scales always exit the bottom as the rear of the strut should be under the transom, not behind it. Some like to mount the bracket to the transom, but the strut still goes through the bottom of the boat. I like to spread the stress a little, and as this particular hull has such a narrow transom, I feel just the stress of the rudder is all I want, and the strut load is spread through the floor. The transom on mine is 7/16" thick as I added a piece inside cut out of 3/16" ply and the floor where the strut mounts is 1/4" thick, again adding a piece of 3/16" ply. I am going to swap out the mounting brackets though and use Accutech brackets as they will allow me to drop the strut a little deeper than the Speedmaster strut bracket.

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This is my first 1/8 scale build so I've never installed a strut through the bottom. My questions is Wil it be watertight and be adjustable up and down thanks, geno

[Agitator]

Geno, I make the slot just large enough for the strut to fit and it will slide up and down and be able to set a positive or negative angle if needed. A little dab of silicone around where it exits the hull (inside) keeps the water out.

[785boats]

I smear a little fillet around the outside too.
Just check your rules a little more closely. Yours might be different, but ours say that the drive dog must be completely forward of the transom under the boat. That will dictate where you cut your slot & mount the bracket. Don't forget to allow for the gap between the strut & drive dog too.
But I think you also have a rule where the strut can extend past the transom if the original boat had one like that. The scale struts are available from Accu Tech.

http://www.accu-techrchardware.com/ASSA-100.html

You will have to do some research to see what strut the original had. There's a couple of glimpses here But I can't tell if the strut extends past the transom or not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmPx6pAzQKk

[meangenesracing]

I smear a little fillet around the outside too.
Just check your rules a little more closely. Yours might be different, but ours say that the drive dog must be completely forward of the transom under the boat. That will dictate where you cut your slot & mount the bracket. Don't forget to allow for the gap between the strut & drive dog too.
But I think you also have a rule where the strut can extend past the transom if the original boat had one like that. The scale struts are available from Accu Tech.

http://www.accu-techrchardware.com/ASSA-100.html

You will have to do some research to see what strut the original had. There's a couple of glimpses here But I can't tell if the strut extends past the transom or not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmPx6pAzQKk

WOW that's some great info there because I would have mounted on the transom so thanks to the both of you

[Agitator]

There was a discussion on this in another thread here, IMPBA rules state that NO part of the drive dog may extend past the transom, NAMBA rules state it can extend no more than 1 drive dog length beyond the transom. You still have to have about 1/4" gap between the dog and the strut so the cable has room to shrink under load. That said, this is the only pic I have of the business end, choice is up to you.

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[nichismo]

Mike W here is well aware of the respective racing governing groups and is extremely knowledgable in relative performance and qualifying needs, he has been immeasurably helpful in my T5 build, his tips and quirks on building have saved me a TON of mistakes and frustration on top of leaving me the option to enter races. :) If I didnt know better, I would have assumed he works/worked for a real hydroplane crew at one point or another, hes that educated guys! :)

Love that picture ^^^, it seems hard to find much media on certain unique boats like this from the past, in yet im constantly suprised when surfing the web at how many hydroplanes have actually raced/drove in H1's history, its pretty cool!


On an off topic note, I really wish I could get a 1/8 scale rudder with the "tiller" style like that. Ive seen several brackets in the T shape that are pretty resembling of full scale rudders, but not very much of the actual rudder. The struts too, I understand we need them to be adjustable, but I really that strut in the picture. Ive seen some guys in Europe whom have the huge 1/6 scale CT hydroplanes and the hardware they usually have is very superb in depicting the full sized unlimiteds. Funny too because so many other small features of their boats commonly misrepresent their respective full size counterparts, being that they aren't concerned with our typical governing bodies rules.

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I smear a little fillet around the outside too.
Just check your rules a little more closely. Yours might be different, but ours say that the drive dog must be completely forward of the transom under the boat. That will dictate where you cut your slot & mount the bracket. Don't forget to allow for the gap between the strut & drive dog too.
But I think you also have a rule where the strut can extend past the transom if the original boat had one like that. The scale struts are available from Accu Tech.

http://www.accu-techrchardware.com/ASSA-100.html

You will have to do some research to see what strut the original had. There's a couple of glimpses here But I can't tell if the strut extends past the transom or not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmPx6pAzQKk

You guys add this silicone after you have the strut adjusted to the position you like, correct?

I bought Accu-techs 1/8 scale hydroplane package, and I went with the "authentic" scale strut. I wished I would have chosen the normal strut, as I was more fixated at the picture of the real hydroplane transom they have on the struts detail page, and the authentic strut just looks a little odd and old fashioned on my hull. I couldnt line up the strut so that the slope begins at the transom due to obvious reasons and it sort of defeats the purpose of having a more scale strut appearence.

[meangenesracing]

this minimeca motor mount your using will it work with a neu 1527 of 1530? I went to their web site and i don't understand the language thanks, geno
I just took delivery last week of this new frame kit from Mike. I have to say, I have built a few of his kits over the last couple of years, but this one is special. Mike always seem to 'push the edge of the envelope' out just a bit more. These are just amazing kits. The original Lobster was built for Steve Woomer Racing by Jim Lucero and was nothing short of the strangest looking hydro built to date. The original, however, just did not perform as expected. The models of this boat, however, have been very successful and this next step with Mike's kit should prove to be a very good performer, and it just looks cool. The best example I can show right now, is this. I also have one Mike's T-6 Extreme kits and the shipping weight was 14 lbs. The shipping weight on the Lobster frame was 8 lbs. Gives an idea of what the finished weight may be. I'm going to use R/C Boat Company's cowl, wings, graphics from Mike McKnight and power will be a Scorpion 4035/800 on 10s. SCU to be determined. One challenge on this boat is the narrow tub-4 3/8" so I ordered a mount from Mini RC Meca that will work just right and keep the COG low. At this point, I have identified the parts (no instructions remember) and have started on the main wings/sponson supports and framed up the rear shoes. All the parts almost fall together, all toy-tabbed for proper alignment, just need to knock off the 'laser glaze' from the edges. Mike even includes the skins for the main wings.
I won't start the tub assembly until I get the cowl, but Mike has added a very neat feature to this tub,and hope he adds this to later kits. More on that later.

Michael

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[Agitator]

No, that mount is designed for Scorpions only. He can make you a mount for a 1527 though, 1530 may be a bit too much but usable I'm sure. The Neu mount would be similar to this one. Here is the link to his thread here:

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?24001-motor-mount

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[meangenesracing]

Any More progress on your build? I'm watching you know lol

[don ferrette]

There was a discussion on this in another thread here, IMPBA rules state that NO part of the drive dog may extend past the transom, NAMBA rules state it can extend no more than 1 drive dog length beyond the transom. You still have to have about 1/4" gap between the dog and the strut so the cable has room to shrink under load. That said, this is the only pic I have of the business end, choice is up to you.

132023That is not entirely correct, IMPBA rule states as follows-
g. The drive dog must not extend beyond the transom unless the prototype boat did so.
As a general rule if it was piston powered the drive dog was behind the transom. Typical modern day turbine powered boats ran with some kind of slightly extended strut. :smile:

[hazegry]

Are there any updates? I want to build one of these and would love to see more.

[nichismo]

hes made some more progress, but waiting on a few specific decals to arrive for the cockpit area before he can proceed building :)

[Agitator]

I would say at this point, it will never be finished, probably will trash it and go back to paper airplanes. Mike makes a great kit, but once the cowl is fit, you will find out the radio box lid comes no where close to clearing the cowl. I've built 4 different tops at this point, and besides there being no way to tape them down as there is not enough material in the hull to tape too, the cowl no longer fits. Tired of fighting with it...

[nichismo]

Hey Mike, its obvious given your previous build resume that ive had the pleasure of viewing, that you could finish the hull to what all of us would label as gorgeous, but if thats indeed the case that you just dont feel like tinkering with it anymore, let me know if you are interested in selling it.

I was looking back through the emails and I remember specifically coming across the one in which you mentioned your method for attaching the air scoop extension and how you would perhaps recieve a little flak for it from the community. I didnt fully comprehend it at the time as I was clearly more interested in my own selfish exploits, but this 2nd time around, I soaked it in much more.....

Very clever! and I see what you mean when you say fairing it in after epoxying it would be a nightmare.... far too many indentations and curved surfaces in a generally cramped working area!

EDIT: it all makes alot more sense now.... Ive viewed Mikes 2010 thread for the first lobster build he did numerous times, I absolutely love it. It made me wonder why the extreme kit which apparently was much easier to build and more thoroughly designed, had suddenly halted progress in both threads.... I remember him telling me recently that his "heart just isnt in it anymore" when it comes to designing/building scale boats and after reading your post ^^^ , sure is a bummer for me to hear :-/ hope you guys stick around.....

[Todd Fleury]

Mike has been extremely busy, and had to delay the build for a little while. I do know that he will be back at it very soon.

[cybercrxt]

I am confused to why the hatch will not fit under the cowling? The standard version of the Lobster kit had far less room, and I made it work fine with 10s and a 1527...What is the issue with this one? Any pics? I will buy the kit and cowling back from you Mike if you want. It would speed up my process for Todds build tremendously. Thanks, Mike

[meangenesracing]

I would say at this point, it will never be finished, probably will trash it and go back to paper airplanes. Mike makes a great kit, but once the cowl is fit, you will find out the radio box lid comes no where close to clearing the cowl. I've built 4 different tops at this point, and besides there being no way to tape them down as there is not enough material in the hull to tape too, the cowl no longer fits. Tired of fighting with it...don't give up you can do it ,I137672137673 did

[Agitator]

Well, after a few months working on other projects, it was time to revisit this beast and see what my problem was. Literally took 5 minutes to figure out the cowl/lid fit issue, so we are off to the races again, so to speak. The boat is almost ready for final assembly prior to priming and paint. The canard flaps will be adjustable and most of the bits and pieces are complete. I won't deck the sponsons until after full assembly, but it will be finished soon and running.


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[nichismo]

OMG Mike that looks so friggin awesome!! You really deserve some exposure in regards to your work and experience, because with this, and then your T4, most people would be in absolute awe at a pair of boats such as those 2 in aesthetical quality to that of your own! I know I am!

Cant wait to see it finished :thumbup1: