Spec classes and boat weight?

[Coug90]

An interesting idea came up in a meeting I attended recently. Someone brought up the point that in unlimited racing they have a minimum boat weight for competition. Have any of you ever heard of an rc boat class that sets a minimum weight for a spec? What effect do you think a minimum weight spec would have on scale hydroplane racing or any racing for that matter. If it is set reasonably do you think it would make any difference in competition? Good, bad or indifferent?

[NativePaul]

Yes the Naviga Eco classes Eco standard, Eco Expert, along with the team versions of them have a 1kg minimum weight limit, and the Naviga Mini classes Mini Hydro, Mini Mono, Mini Eco standard and Mini Eco Expert have a 450g minimum weight. I do not like the minimum weights in these classes, I think they were put in either to toughen up hulls or to limit the advantages of composite hulls, but as a light hull with a lump of lead low down performs better than a heavy hull it didn't really work as I suspect was intended and almost everyone uses lightweight composite hulls anyway, the extra weight needed to meet the rules just slows the boats down reducing driver enjoyment. These are not the fastest classes that they are trying to slow down for safety's sake, there are no weight limits to Mono2 or Hydro2, they slow these down by increasing the runtimes every once in a while, when I started racing hydros ran for 3 minutes and next year they will run for 6 minutes.

The Naviga speed and steering classes are also split into -1kg and +1kg versions, and these classes are so open that I think the maximum weigh of -1kg and mimimum weight of +1kg are a good way to separate the classes without limiting technological innovation or hull creativity.

[rdcracer]

I have raced cars of different sizes and alot of the classes there have a min weight requirement and go through tech before each race and are weighed. It keeps the cars equal in weight. I am choosing a boat now and although I want to keep it light 350-450 for a carbon hull is not in the cards when I can build a wood kit myself. Racing against the carbon hull has got to be a disadvantage. If there was a min weight it would even it out.

[Darin Jordan]

Minimum weights take the "builder" right out if the equation.

[Fluid]

Just what problem would a "minimum weight" specification solve in NA sprint racing? Are CF hulls winning all the races now, have they made FG and wood hulls obsolete? Are racers leaving the hobby in droves due to the high cost of CF or composite hulls?

Sounds just like the silly "length limits" rule which was put in place to solve a non-existent problem and now acts as a limit to the boats racers can use. More rules complicate an already complex rule book and limit the fun. Let those who already have weight limits suffer from their use....



.

[RandyatBBY]

I agree with Jay Turner!

[monojeff]

On these scale boats sometimes weight is a good thing!

[RandyatBBY]

On these scale boats sometimes weight is a good thing!

Keeps them in the water and makes them go slower. Most of the time more stable.

[monojeff]

Consistency and finishing heats is what wins competitions.
Fast unpredictable boats can be hit and miss. I know this oh to well with my karelson hull that will be getting some updates this year.

Another thing I'll add is CF hull does not always mean light.


I'd love to race some of the water I have seen from videos of Arizona and Florida!
Glass smooth is not something we see out here in PNW!

[Coug90]

I think weight is only one part of building that would be taken out of the equation. There are many other things that a builder controls. Is controlling min weight a good or bad thing for spec as a way to tighten competition and make a spec class even more challenging? I don't know. Keep It coming guys. It's a intriguing idea.

[monojeff]

I think weight is only one part of building that would be taken out of the equation. There are many other things that a builder controls. Is controlling min weight a good or bad thing for spec as a way to tighten competition and make a spec class even more challenging? I don't know. Keep It coming guys. It's a intriguing idea.

I don't think it is necessary.
If you were to control the weight you may as well have everyone use the same prop.

No matter what you do to try to tighten the racing and make it more competitive.
There are always going to be gaps because of experience and driving ability.

I think the rules as they stand make for very competitive racing and no need to change things just get more exposure and the racing will continue to evolve and get better.
There will always be the "fast" "consistent" "slow" "dangerous" drives no matter what.
Racing is racing and in this class beauty of it is there are a variety of boats and setups that can compete an a close to even level.

[JimClark]

Sometimes clubs just think too much and end up passing silly rules that make it much harder to enjoy running and even harder to cross over and run in another club. I don't think it matters much. Last time I ran with PSFE (Puget Sound Fast Electrics) I pulled my very first boat I build out to run. It weighed at least 2.5 lbs heavier than the boats i was running against and had a turn fin on it that was probably only 1/2 the size others were using and I was still able to stay with Greg Sweers 1/10th scale we had a great deck to deck race. Would make way more sense that all clubs in the seattle area use the namba rules for boats then someone could run in any club with the same boat.

[monojeff]

Sometimes clubs just think too much and end up passing silly rules that make it much harder to enjoy running and even harder to cross over and run in another club. I don't think it matters much. Last time I ran with PSFE (Puget Sound Fast Electrics) I pulled my very first boat I build out to run. It weighed at least 2.5 lbs less than the boats i was running against and had a turn fin on it that was probably only 1/2 the size others were using and I was still able to stay with Greg Sweers 1/10th scale we had a great deck to deck race. Would make way more sense that all clubs in the seattle area use the namba rules for boats then someone could run in any club with the same boat.
I know ERCU started to accept the proboat 1500kv motor and because of that I was able to make a race with them and enjoy some great racing because of it. Before they only aloud the himax motor and guys like me who have outfitted my 1/10 scales with the proboat motors were not able to race before. I can't afford to get all new motors for my boats so I had to wait until they changed the rules to make more sense and allow for more racers to get involved.

[Ronbo]

Minimum boat weight would only hurt the heavy hulls, generally, as the lighter hulls could distribute weight wherever necessary thus possibly handle better. Also, a scale would need to be available all the time to check weight if its really a problem. And what min weight will make the heavy hull owners happy?

Building technique comes into play as well. There are some nice comparable wood hulls that are the same as composite in weight. The heavy boat owners not learn new techniques to be competitive? And is it really an issue? There is a penalty to be paid if a scale boat is too light.

(since I have a dog in this fight somewhat, just throwing it out there IMHO)

[ron1950]

more weight? man I cant even get two of my boats to run right now...don't need more rules

[madmikepags]

I have probably the lightest P-lim mono out there and while its really cool it's not necessarily the best boat out there, I have to run the batteries so far forward to keep the nose down that it wets down too much in the corner and draws a lot of current, remember weight is important but parasitic drag (how much boat is in the water) is much more critical.

[Coug90]

I have probably the lightest P-lim mono out there and while its really cool it's not necessarily the best boat out there, I have to run the batteries so far forward to keep the nose down that it wets down too much in the corner and draws a lot of current, remember weight is important but parasitic drag (how much boat is in the water) is much more critical.

I couldn't agree with you more. Thanks for the input.