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Speed810
12-22-2014, 01:01 PM
Well I had so much fun with my smaller UL-1 this past summer that I just had to look into a bigger boat that I could build into a fast electric for racing this next summer. Talked with Mike from ML Boatworks quite a bit and decided to go with the 1/8 scale 171 Extreme kit the Miss Elam boat.

Now I have been an airplane builder for quite some time....since I was 15 when my dad and I would spend hours in the basement working on models. No servos then...just escapements....LOL. But this is my first try at building boats, especially an Unlimited Hydroplane. I will also be posting this build in another forum and I'll try my best to keep up with both of them.

In any case I will be looking for a lot of ideas and information from anyone that would like to chime in. OH....and I take the negative criticism too....as long as your nice about it....LOL :laugh: I don't think of there ever being a dumb question, except for those we don't ask. So if some question sounds a little on the dumb side, bear with me. Remember I’m new to boats and want to learn more.

What I'm planning for power with this boat after talking with Mike at ML Boats is the NUE 1527 1Y on 8S. 10S if they will fit. But I'm thinking for a racing profile that 8S is going to be more than enough. Not sure on the ESC as yet, but thinking it’s going to have to be at least a 240amp. Was going to get more ideas from you folks on that. Also the running hardware from Accu-Tech seems to be the way most folks are going. Again any other ideas or suggestions out there are welcome. Ordered the cowl from RC Boats and the Wing set from Phil Thomas last week....so expecting them soon.

I have been reading up on the rules for these boats, but as we all know sometimes there are ones we might have missed. So if you know of ones that seem to keep coming back and biting guys please let me know. I think the biggest one that I have seen is that the drive dog cannot extend past the transom, so that means a thru hull drive shaft support. Appreciate your ideas of the size drive cable and stuffing tube to be used. Was thinking of the 1/4" reduced to 3/16.

Well I got started on this over this past weekend and pretty much have the center section done. Nice thing about this kit is that it builds pretty much in 3 separate sections. If you have a flat surface to work from, that’s about all you'll need to build a nice straight and square boat frame with this kit. Everything is perfectly laser cut, best I've ever seen. And everything fits perfect. The next thing to move onto will be the sponsons which should go fairly quick. When I ordered the kit I also ordered all the 1/4X1/4 and 3/16X3/16 square stock, plus all the sheeting for the boat from Mike.

I've attached some build photos from this past weekend. Pretty much started off by tacking everything together with thin CA and Med CA. The hull bottom sheet is all one piece. I thinned some 30 min epoxy and applied it to all the bulkheads and hull stringers and then positioned the hull bottom sheeting. Weight down and wait. At the same time I went over all the other joints with the thinned epoxy mix for a better bond with formers and stringers. I'll be coating them again later when I get ready to coat the inside of the boat.
Any suggestions are appreciated on what your using for sealing your boats....West System...etc.

Thanks All! Can't wait to get it on the water this spring. It’s all Ice right now...LOL

Mike S.

Speed810
12-22-2014, 01:05 PM
More Pictues with bottom sheeting installed

don ferrette
12-22-2014, 02:55 PM
You'll enjoy that hull, I've been running that same boat with great success. For motor choices a 1527 1Y will be best on 8S, for 10S go with a 1527 1.5Y (this combo provides excellent results). The ETTI 220 OPTI PRO ESC has been working great for the scales, a bit of a pain to program but once past that a rock solid ESC (USE THE CAP BANK THAT COMES WITH IT!!!). You want the 8mm shaft option in either motor you choose and use the 1/4" step to 3/16" cable for sure. :smile:

Doug Smock
12-22-2014, 06:23 PM
Different ML hull but with the 1.5Y motor on 10s, also using the ETTI 220 OPTI PRO ESC with cooling tube mod.
Playing with a 60 scale. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuk-d6chMyg
Just making some laps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y35uoH2t2RM

Looking forward to the rest of your build.

Keep up the good work!

D.

Fluid
12-22-2014, 06:52 PM
The 1527/1y is too much for an oval racer on 10s. I set sport hydro SAW records in the 80s with that motor on 8S with amp draws well under 200. You don't need 35,000-plus rpm to oval race a 1/10 hull.




.

Speed810
12-22-2014, 06:58 PM
Thanks for the information Doug....Seems that is the going setup for these boats. The Squire Shop sure seems to do well on that package and very, very stable; not to speak of a real pretty boat....Nice Job!!. It would be great to see some build pictures of motor location and batteries to see how it all fit in your boat if that possible. Thanks again Doug!!
Might be more questions down the line, hope you don't mind.

Mike

Doug Smock
12-22-2014, 07:05 PM
The 1527/1y is too much for an oval racer on 10s. I set sport hydro SAW records in the 80s with that motor on 8S with amp draws well under 200. You don't need 35,000-plus rpm to oval race a 1/10 hull.




.

You're right Jay. Don recommended 8s on the 1y.:wink:

Mike I can't take credit on the hull build and paint. I purchased the boat from Mike, had to have it when I saw it. I just rigged it.
I'd be happy to post some pics if you'd like.

Speed810
12-22-2014, 07:05 PM
I understand what your saying Fluid...I just want a good stable boat in race setup with speed to compete. Now this is an 1/8 scale...not a 1/10 and guys that have talked about the 1527 1.5Y on 10S are talking about 1/8 scale if that makes any difference. In any case I would think it's going to be plenty fast.

Mike

Speed810
12-22-2014, 07:08 PM
Evening Don,

Thanks very much for the information and boat choice.... Would be very interested in seeing any build pictures or links to your boat if possible. How is the race setup with 1527 1.5Y...Still a very stable boat?? The only reason I was looking at 8S was Mike indicated it may be very difficult to squeeze to 5S packs in the hull on top of maybe to much motor for that boat. But sure would like to hear your experience with that setup.

Appreciate anything you can share.

Mike

madmikepags
12-22-2014, 08:11 PM
1527/1.5Y on 10s is a tried and true 1/8 scale setup. I have 2 Nat titles with this setup, and plenty of other wins.

madmikepags
12-22-2014, 08:16 PM
3/16 cable is fine for pretty much any scale setup

Speed810
12-22-2014, 11:01 PM
That would be great Doug....

Just like to get an idea of battery and motor placement etc. So what ever you have would be outstanding. You can email it if you like.

Mike

Speed810
12-22-2014, 11:04 PM
Thanks Mad Mike....Any information on your motor, battery and hardware setup would be great...

Mike S

RayR
12-23-2014, 05:38 AM
most of Don's build is here:

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/album.php?albumid=643

don ferrette
12-23-2014, 10:57 PM
most of Don's build is here:

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/album.php?albumid=643
That is actually a different build. Here's a couple shots of the Elam.....

Chilli
12-24-2014, 01:36 AM
most of Don's build is here:

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/album.php?albumid=643

That's my boat now.... :smile:

john finch
12-24-2014, 08:13 AM
I am running the 1/8th scale O boy Oberto that Don set the SAW record with. It is now a heat racer with the 1527 1.5y on 10s 1p and finishes 8 laps with 32 percent still left in the batteries. I am now converting my 1969 miss Bardahl roundnose nitro boat to electric. i am going to try 8s 2p with the 1530 neu at 1100 kv because I have 4 of the 4s packs and can play with 1p vs 2p vs weight etc. If it is not as good as the o boy oberto I have a new neu 1527 1.5y ready to install and use the 10s 1p setup. I will find out this spring which setup is best for sure. Like Don said..........the 1527 1.5 on 10s 1p is a solid performer.

John
Fast becoming an electric addict!

Speed810
12-24-2014, 10:33 AM
Good Morning Don....

Thanks very much for the photo's. I also looked at the other build and actually got some good information there on the initial build.

I ordered the main SG118C Cowling, Turbine tray and the Lexan canopy so I have that on hand before sheeting starts.

Just some basic concepts that I'm working on to understand are:
One of the biggest is understanding the motor placement...doesn't seem to be much out there. Are you placing the motor on the centerline of the transom or centerline of the motor well, which then it actually is off-set slightly....Trying to figure out the pro's & con's and the why's (what does this do to the boat).....LOL
Cowling attachment and sealing from water.
Cowling intake and ideas of sealing that off from water into the hull.
Engine mock up ideas and what you used.
Was your Elam floor bottom in the motor to transom area reinforced with just the carbon fiber cloth or do you also add some ply sheet to that area for strength?
Did you use formed carbon fiber cloth for the center section leading edge, and/or sheeting or balsa block to shape the leading edge.?

Cooling water inlet / outlet systems. I see different designs in that. Just interested in what you prefer that keeps everything cool.

Anything you can lend Don would be appreciated. I know its a busy time, so no hurry.


Again thanks to everyone for your help and information.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL!!

Mike

Speed810
12-24-2014, 10:36 AM
Thanks John....

Definitely looking like the power package to go with. Seems to be proven over and over.

Have any pictures of your 10S setup as far as motor and battery placement?

Thanks

Mike

Scott M
12-24-2014, 01:14 PM
Nice job building. I'm looking forward to seeing it done

Speed810
12-24-2014, 01:54 PM
Thanks Scott! I'm pretty excited on this end.

Doug Smock
12-24-2014, 02:16 PM
That would be great Doug....

Just like to get an idea of battery and motor placement etc. So what ever you have would be outstanding. You can email it if you like.

Mike

Here's what I came up with Mike.
I have additional pics of the waterlines and transom hardware if you'd like. Don't want to clutter your thread too much.

Speed810
12-24-2014, 03:32 PM
Those are great Doug. Don't worry about cluttering this up. Just want to see the various installs and configurations. Looks like a 10S1P setup is that right?....with another battery for RX and servo operation. Notice your using all silicone waterlines for cooling. I see some builds where they recommend using brass lines and then going to silicone lines. Not sure if it really makes that much difference. Also do you use a dual pick up rudder with separate outlets, one to the motor and one for the ESC. I see that highly recommended by some, but would rather clarify it with you guys that are running the actual 1527 motor...etc. Is all your hardware Accu-Tech 1/8 scale hardware?

Thanks again for all the great pictures and information.

Mike

Doug Smock
12-24-2014, 04:06 PM
My pleasure.
Yes sir 10s 1P. The hardware is Speedmaster. As you'll see I ran aluminum tubing through the transom all the way up to the motor and ESC then went with silicone. I ran two lines because the rudder had two pickups. I am confident that this set up would be fine with a single pick up cooling the motor first if that's the direction you want to go. I've never has a problem getting adequate cooling on a FE boat with a single pick up.:wink:

Hope this helps.

Looking forward to the reminder of your build.

D.

PS Don't forget floatation. I put it in every place it would fit. Used 2"x whatever blue foam blocks.

Speed810
12-27-2014, 04:06 PM
Thanks Doug....Great pictures on your setup. Did you use the Speedmaster turn fin also?

See you have a few sponges in the rear also for water seeping in thru the strut. Guess they all must do this. Did you think about putting an auto bailer in at all?
Heard they can be more of a problem at times then not having one at all....LOL

Thanks again Doug!!

Mike

Doug Smock
12-27-2014, 04:42 PM
Hey Mike,

The sponge (and paper towels not in the pic lol) were just a bit of insurance for the maiden voyage. I hadn't float tested the boat. The boat stays dry.:thumbup1:

I haven't ever used auto "sinkers". Like you, I've heard enough stories from those that have.:wink:

I'm pretty sure Mike L. made the turn fin bracket, the fin is a Virginia Craftsman.


D.

john finch
12-27-2014, 08:22 PM
125971Here is the Oboy Oberto. Two 5s packs go in front of the motor. The speed controller is on top of the motor. Hope this helps.

John

Speed810
12-28-2014, 09:23 PM
Well finally found sometime last night and today to continue building. Pictures are attached below....if you see some areas needing attention, feel free to let me know....:biggrin:

Finished up the initial framing of both sponsons and got some pre-sanding done to shape the stringers with all the formers. Still need to add some 3/16 Sq. stock to the top and bottom of the formers and add the rear heel formers before sheeting starts.

Also thanks to everyone for all your input and pictures. It sure has helped me plan ahead and look at other reinforcement areas around the nose and motor well.

Speed810
12-28-2014, 09:26 PM
Left Sponson.

Speed810
12-28-2014, 09:28 PM
Pre-fit both sponsons.

Todd Fleury
12-30-2014, 09:37 AM
Cool looking boat! Where in MI are you located?

Speed810
12-30-2014, 09:52 AM
Well didn't get much done on the boat last night. Had to work late and basically passed out after dinner...LOL I did manage to get an order in to with Harry over at Speedmaster. Picked up the 1/4" cable/shaft cut down to 3/16, drive dogs, bushings, prop nuts etc. Picked up the dual pick rudder with an 1 5/8 ext., an extended strut so I can cut the back of the strut to lenght for the proper fit to meet NAMBA rules.

I'm kind of confused why the rule is different between NAMBA and IMPBA. NAMBA says "The propeller drive dog may extend one drive dog length beyond the transom". (basically about 1/4") out from the transom, where IMPBA says "The drive dog must not extend beyond the transom". Checked out MMEU (Mid-Michigan Electrics Unlimited) and they go by NAMBA rules. Thats where I am wanting to run so that will work out.

Still looking and tryin to make up my mind on a good 1/8 scale turn fin. I have seen the 1/8 scale from Accu-Tech and also one that Speedmaster puts out. Mike L. also put me in touch with Dick over at Virgina Craftsman, but with the wait, this boat may never see the water this summer. Anyone have any experience with either the Accu-Tech or Speedmaster turn fin?

Well should have some more done tonight....off the rest of the week for the holiday...:)

Happy New Year All!

Mike S.

Speed810
12-30-2014, 09:53 AM
Hey Todd,....

I am over in the Lansing area. You?

Todd Fleury
12-30-2014, 10:19 AM
IMPBA allows you to have an extended strut if the original boat has that strut. In NAMBA, it is depending on the Contest Director. My Peters & May has the extended strut. Will have a new 1/8 scale soon. I'm in Birmingham, but I am a member of MMEU.
126117

don ferrette
12-30-2014, 10:29 AM
Still looking and tryin to make up my mind on a good 1/8 scale turn fin. I have seen the 1/8 scale from Accu-Tech and also one that Speedmaster puts out. Mike L. also put me in touch with Dick over at Virgina Craftsman, but with the wait, this boat may never see the water this summer. Anyone have any experience with either the Accu-Tech or Speedmaster turn fin?I've run most of them out there, the turn fins from Mr. Tyndall are the best. What did Dick give you for a wait time?

Todd Fleury
12-30-2014, 02:19 PM
Don is really knowledgeable regarding these things. Might want to take notes.

Speed810
12-30-2014, 02:52 PM
Todd --- I'm thinkin your right....LOL When is their next meet at MMEU Todd? Would like to meet some of the folks and see about joining.

Don --- Haven't heard back from Dick yet, so not sure of the time span we're talking about. But Mike L. kind of filled me in on Dick's present situation and all. It didn't sound real promising though. I would love to wait, but then it will kind of halt the build with out the bracket template for drilling the heel and drilling and tapping the back plate. But we'll see what Dick says first and play it by ear.

Talking with a fella in the RCG forum, he said he used to use the Virgina Craftsman all the time and is now using the Accu-Tech 1/8 scale fin and having very good success with it. The adjustments on it allow for a wide varity of +-angle and up/down for +-drift.

Well we see what happens from here.

Mike S

T.S.Davis
12-30-2014, 03:24 PM
Todd --- I'm thinkin your right....LOL When is their next meet at MMEU Todd? Would like to meet some of the folks and see about joining.


Mike, send me an email. h2o-racing@comcast.net
I'll put you on our email list. We haven't scheduled our next meeting but it will be in February. Likely out at the Elks lodge where we host the Michigan Cup. Primary objective will be the 2015 schedule and show n' tell.

We don't run 1/8 scale regularly at our club races. There hasn't been enough of them around to race. I think you're build makes 4 of them locally that I'm aware of. Our club pond gets small in a hurry with 3 of these. That's not to say we wouldn't run them if the numbers are there. Scale is a little bit different animal in my experience. A certain amount of mutual respect that keeps them from ever getting up against each other. If we run them on the Shelby pond that respect will be required.

We do race them at the Michigan Cup though. Lots of water out there. I run a T Plus on 10s with a motor that is wrong. I need to go to a 1527/1.5y myself. It's the perfect motor really.

ray schrauwen
12-30-2014, 03:26 PM
Randy Rapedius will make a Titanium turn fin for you out of Canada but, it's going to be $$$. Very thin and very rigid, he does some nice work.

He is on facebook with the NLMBC.

Todd Fleury
12-30-2014, 04:08 PM
Don't forget about Northern Lights as well Terry. Yes, Terry runs on 10s, I will be running on 8s, but all very competitive. Our local pond is a little small, but it will have to come down to how we want to work it out. Terry, they are using the Messina Gravel Pit in Shelby. Have we looked over there?

T.S.Davis
12-30-2014, 05:10 PM
Don't forget about Northern Lights as well Terry.

I think that's the race they are calling the Can Am now. Not sure if they run FE scale but they do have the room for it. They might not have the time for it though.

I've not seen Messina.

Speed810
01-02-2015, 07:27 PM
Well received my Wing parts from Phil Thomas and just had to trial fit them and get an idea of how it would look. I'm liken it!!....

Also cut the front hull fairing blocks and got them fitted. Cut some 3/4 oz fiberglass cloth to wrap them in. But before I go any further, now I wonder if I goofed up on the blocks.

I followed the outline of the laser cut ply to get the shape correct and I'm really wondering if the block should have met the bottom of the hull the same as the top shape line did.....but it showed it coming down and butting up against the front bulkhead...... (See picture with red arrow)

Don maybe you could shed some light on that....I did take a look at one of your photo's and it was hard to see, but it appeared that yours are the same way.

Any input all?


Will start adding more stringer supports tomorrow and get it ready for bottom sheeting.

Mike S.

Todd Fleury
01-02-2015, 07:59 PM
Give me a call at 415-533-6782. I'll try to help as much as I can with setup

don ferrette
01-02-2015, 08:18 PM
Don maybe you could shed some light on that....I did take a look at one of your photo's and it was hard to see, but it appeared that yours are the same way.
Light has been shed to your e-mail inbox, no worries you didn't goof up. I got ya covered since I've built the exact kit you're working on. :smile:

Speed810
01-02-2015, 08:26 PM
Thanks Don!! ..............You the man!!!

Mike

Speed810
01-03-2015, 01:05 PM
Thanks Todd.... I did email Randy on the turn fin.. And he said he is only making them for the smaller scale boats...:confused1:

Appreciate any help on the setup for motor, batteries etc. Trying to keep an eye on weight placement so I'm coming out somewhere around 2" behind the heel on the CG. That's one reason I have not added any other support bulk heads up front until I know approx. where I want the batteries.

I'll be in touch!

Mike

don ferrette
01-03-2015, 03:50 PM
Thanks Todd.... I did email Randy on the turn fin.. And he said he is only making them for the smaller scale boats...:confused1:

Appreciate any help on the setup for motor, batteries etc. Trying to keep an eye on weight placement so I'm coming out somewhere around 2" behind the heel on the CG. That's one reason I have not added any other support bulk heads up front until I know approx. where I want the batteries.

I'll be in touch!

MikeYou want that CG 1" or less from sponson heal. More light shed to your inbox. :smile:

Speed810
01-03-2015, 04:17 PM
Thanks Don....Got it. Great idea!

Speed810
01-03-2015, 10:24 PM
Worked quite a bit today on the sponsons to get ready for the bottom sheeting. Didn't seem like I got that much done for the time spent, but the right sponson is about done. Added the rear sponson fairing block and all the tapered stock for gluing surfaces. Just need to add some more 3/16sq. stock tapered on upper two strakes and finish some final sanding.

Sure need to finalize a turn fin for this boat so I can get the bracket mounted. It looks like I'll be going with the Acuu-Tech 1/8 scale on this one.

Speed810
01-12-2015, 09:40 PM
Just wanted to make sure and add something else to the build and show that I am working on it...LOL

Actually been doing a lot of reading and research for parts and setup settings for this boat.

So I have started the sheeting process after a lot of discussion and help from fellow builders.....Thanks for everything Don and Paul!! So far I have figured out the process as far as getting the sheet outline traced, cut and installed. I'm sure the left sponson will go little quicker, but am pleased with the way they are turning out.

While some of these sheets were curing I sandwiched the front canard in a dense balsa and will begin shaping the airfoil. Plan on permanently attaching the rear canard wings by installing aluminum plate on the hinge line that will be bent to an up angle for down force on the nose of the boat. Those aluminum plates will be epoxied in place into each half of the canard wing and sanded to shape then covered in either glass cloth or a carbon fiber veil.

Received the hardware from Speedmaster last week and it is some beautiful stuff.
Also finally got ahold of Dick at Virginia Craftsman on the turn fin and Dick is going to get me a template or a bracket made up sometime in the next week or so, and that way I can continue completion of the right sposnon and heel section, then Dick will send out the turn fin when its completed. Also talked to Steve at OSE, and he is checking to see when he'll have the NEU 1527 back in stock and the ETTI 220A ESC. Lets hope its not to long....LOL Been working with Dave over at HRC on a motor mount for this boat and have it modified for the ESC mounting plate on top. Looks like we have something that will work out very well for this boat.....

So some issues that I'm trying to figure out, but having a heck of a time finding information on.... ::::::::
Strut depth Still haven't found a formula or rule of thumb used to place the depth of the strut for the starting point even though really you would want it to be close to its final position....Any input??
Stuffing Tube What are most of you using for sealing the stuffing tube at the motor? Teflon? Also are most of you installing an oiler tube to the stuffing tube? I know my UL-1 has the Teflon section in the head of the stuffing tube.
ETTI ESC cooling Mod Someone had mentioned that they had installed a cooling mod onto the ETTI ESC. Is there any information out there on this and is this really a necessary modification?

More to come!

Mike

Todd Fleury
01-13-2015, 08:38 AM
You don't want to permanently attach the rear wings in case of a blow over. You want to use nylon screws so it can break away and not damage the hull. Also, I might have a 1527 1.5y for you.

Speed810
01-13-2015, 09:00 AM
Hey Todd.....Maybe you misunderstood the area I was talking about.....:) I getcha on the rear wing assembly...definitly going to attach with nylon screws so it has a break away feature.
The area I was talking about was the (Canard up front) Was looking at securing the adjustable rear part of the canard with the aluminum plate. I have read that the front conard flaps on this size model really don't do much and most folks are permenantly securing them in place in the up postion for down force. What's your take on it?
Looking at Don Ferrette's 171 kit, I guess he started out to make the front conard adjustable, but then switched it out to a permanent system.

Might be interested in your 1527 1.5Y....:) Can you PM me and tell me more about it...time on the motor, condition, etc. (Price)...LOL

Thanks

Mike

Todd Fleury
01-13-2015, 09:24 AM
I prefer to have them adjustable so I can make slight changes during a race. I use just my tape to hold them in place. Works really well. The 1527 1.5y is new in box. No run time and never had bullets soldered. I have only had it for about two weeks. Going a different direction.

Speed810
01-13-2015, 10:56 AM
That might work too Todd....Have to give it some more thought. The suggestion just came down from other folks that have built this type of boat with the front canard system...Your the first that has indiacted that you adjust it at times for different conditions. So do you find that it really can make some ride differences with your boat?

On the 1527...is that an 8mm shaft and what do you want for it? PM me if you like.

Mike

Speed810
01-13-2015, 03:15 PM
BTW Todd...What is your new direction...:) ?????? LOL

Todd Fleury
01-13-2015, 03:22 PM
I am running a 1527 1y 1250kv in a Winston Eagle Lobster on 8s

Speed810
01-13-2015, 03:51 PM
That will be a mover....:w00t:

Didin't you say you were going to look at a an 1/8 scale build for this year?

Todd Fleury
01-13-2015, 03:59 PM
Yes. I already own a 1/8 scale Peters & May. Working on a Lobster

Doug Smock
01-13-2015, 10:03 PM
ETTI ESC cooling Mod Someone had mentioned that they had installed a cooling mod onto the ETTI ESC. Is there any information out there on this and is this really a necessary modification?


You'll see when you get the control (unless the design has changed)that they left us precious little room for tubing between the boards and the nipples. Don actually brought this to my attention before I purchased mine.
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=etti-E065

We removed the nipples, drilled through the plates and pressed in 5/32" (IIRC) brass tubes long enough to clear the boards. I used some Thermocoat compound during assembly. The control doesn't know it's in the boat.

T.S.Davis
01-13-2015, 10:40 PM
I already own a 1/8 scale Peters & May.

Oh you own it. You may never see it again but you own it. After all that effort to scrap that canopy from the depths of Shadow lake too.

Hey, what if we convinced someone that lives out there to go pick it up from them? Just a thought.

cybercrxt
01-14-2015, 06:33 AM
Great looking build Mike. Keep up the good work! Mike

Todd Fleury
01-14-2015, 08:35 AM
Might be a good idea Terry

Speed810
01-14-2015, 12:46 PM
Hey Mike...Thanks Its coming along slowly but surely. Just wish I had more time to be out in the shop during the week nights....LOL Been awful cold the past few days even with the heater going...hoping for better conditions tonight.

Mike

Speed810
01-14-2015, 12:54 PM
Thanks for the information Doug!

Actually I’m now thinking about going with the Swordfish 240A. They are a little more available out there and it appears they have been working really well.
Any input on that?...:)

Also one thing I am not seeing on a lot of the 1/8 scales are radio antennas or antenna tubes sticking up thru the deck. Are the most guys just installing them inside the hull or canopies? Just wondering?

Mike

Todd Fleury
01-14-2015, 01:54 PM
If you are using Futaba, I found that you do not need to have the antenna going through the hull. You can mount it higher up in the hull tub, and you will be fine.

Speed810
01-14-2015, 02:37 PM
Thanks Todd.....I have been usually running JR. All my aircraft are JR so was looking at usuing my Spectrum surface gear (trucks). But it does seem that the Futaba surface radios for marine use have really been super dependable. Might be time for a change back to some Futaba gear...LOL

785boats
01-14-2015, 02:47 PM
Hi Mike.
She's coming along well.
I don't run an antenna outside any of my boats & never have a problem.
I run the Swordfish 240A ESC with the 1527/1y in the U-95, & she's holding up well. Doesn't break a sweat.
But in the other two 1/8 hydros I'm running a Seaking HV 130A with no problems yet. But they are lower kv motors & should be pulling less amps. Thats all on 8s1p set ups.

Keep up the good work.
Paul.

Speed810
01-14-2015, 03:06 PM
Hey Paul...Thanks

Yeah I'm thinking maybe I'll be better off staying with the 220A or 240A on the 10S1P setup. Just really hard to find those ETTI ESC's...almost as hard as finding a NEU 1527 1.5Y...LOL But it looks like Todd is going to part with his 1527 1.5Y, so I'm picking that up from him. Dave at HRC is building the mount and cooling can....so pretty close to being finished with the HIGH priced items except the ESC.

I'll be in the shop tonight!

Mike

don ferrette
01-14-2015, 05:53 PM
Looking at Don Ferrette's 171 kit, I guess he started out to make the front conard adjustable, but then switched it out to a permanent system.
Nope, my front canard flaps are adjustable, I tape them in place from the underside. :smile:

Speed810
01-14-2015, 06:17 PM
Oh ok....Thanks Don...

Thought you made them permanent.....my bad. Did you keep the brass tube for the hinge point?
Also what did you use to figure out the strut depth?

Thanks Mike

don ferrette
01-14-2015, 08:12 PM
Oh ok....Thanks Don...

Thought you made them permanent.....my bad. Did you keep the brass tube for the hinge point?
Also what did you use to figure out the strut depth?

Thanks MikeMore pics emailed to you. Run your strut 1/8" deeper than your front sponson depth, keep it flat.

Speed810
01-14-2015, 11:13 PM
Thanks Don....Got them.

So your just using the brass tubing as your hinge material and then using tape to keep it in place for the angle you want....?

Also I think I remember you said you used 1/8" ply on the sponson pad area...was that right? I know if you use the 1/16 ply it ends up with a step there between the front sheet and the pad. Using the 1/8" would make that an even surface from the front sheet right to the pad. At least your finished sponson picture you sent seems to show that.

Now if I am getting this right...I would want to set the boat up on a flat surface from under the center and make sure its level and sitting on the front sponson pads.........now measuring from the transom to the flat surface would give me my sponson depth and just add an 1/8". I'm up for any ideas that make it easier...LOL Just want to see if I'm looking at this right.

Thanks again

Mike

don ferrette
01-15-2015, 07:34 PM
Thanks Don....Got them.

So your just using the brass tubing as your hinge material and then using tape to keep it in place for the angle you want....?

Also I think I remember you said you used 1/8" ply on the sponson pad area...was that right? I know if you use the 1/16 ply it ends up with a step there between the front sheet and the pad. Using the 1/8" would make that an even surface from the front sheet right to the pad. At least your finished sponson picture you sent seems to show that.

Now if I am getting this right...I would want to set the boat up on a flat surface from under the center and make sure its level and sitting on the front sponson pads.........now measuring from the transom to the flat surface would give me my sponson depth and just add an 1/8". I'm up for any ideas that make it easier...LOL Just want to see if I'm looking at this right.

Thanks again

MikeIf your kit is the same as mine your strut depth should be approx. 1 1/8". I'll try to get mine down this weekend and check that for you. :smile:

Speed810
01-16-2015, 07:33 PM
Well finally completed the bottom sheeting on the Starboard sponson and everything sanded. Pretty pleased on the out come. :smile: Will need to fill slightly along the over laps and some corners. Will also have some carbon fiber sheeting or glass cloth sheeting epoxied on the inner hull for added strength.

Already traced the outlines for the sheeting from the heel to the tiplet and the outline for the hardwood shoes.

The port sponson is all framed out and all the glue strips are glued in. Will start the sheeting process later tonight.

Parts are starting to come in...should have the motor by next week (Thanks Todd)....the HRC mount is in process and should be shipped out next week. Steve at OSE did get the ETTI 220A ESC in stock, so that and some other hardware should be in next week, and Dick is in the process of getting a Virginia Craftsman turn fin and bracket completed. The carbon fiber sheeting and veil material came in today along with some West System 105/205 epoxy.

Found some 8000Mah 5S1P 30C packs, but not sure that they are going to fit yet. Need to wait for the canopy/cowling to see how that is going to fit first. May have to revert back to the 5000Mah.

One thing I have seen on other builds is that it appears that where the stuffing tube comes up thru the hull that some are using like an 11/32 brass tube section as maybe a strengthening section and then running the 5/16 stuffing tube thru that. But yet I see some that just run the 5/16 up through the hull. Can anybody shed some light on this or am I just seeing things in the photos....LOL :confused2:

Any way....more to come tomorrow.......:banana:


Mike

Speed810
01-16-2015, 07:35 PM
Port side Sponson framing and glue strips all completed....

Todd Fleury
01-16-2015, 07:47 PM
You will need to go with 2 5s 5000mah packs. Order from mojo racing products. You can't race with over 12000mah total.

Speed810
01-16-2015, 09:08 PM
You will need to go with 2 5s 5000mah packs. Order from mojo racing products. You can't race with over 12000mah total.

Hey Todd ...I read that...maybe I misinterpeted it. The total capacity would still be only 8,000Mah sense they are being hooked up in series. Now if I was looking at hooking them up in parelle then I would be in trouble.

Did I mis-read that...are they actually saying you can't have more than 12,000Mah on board no matter how they are hooked up?

Interesting???
Courious to the answer.....:)

Mike

T.S.Davis
01-16-2015, 09:44 PM
Mike, I think Todd's been drinking. Haha

(2) 5s/8000 in series is 10s/8000. We'll below the 12k limit. 8000's are likely huge though. Consider 5s/6000 from mojo. That's what I run.

If those 8000's are max amps I would not recommend them.

Todd Fleury
01-16-2015, 10:16 PM
Terry's right, my bad. I was paying more attention to my adult beverages.

don ferrette
01-16-2015, 10:30 PM
One thing I have seen on other builds is that it appears that where the stuffing tube comes up thru the hull that some are using like an 11/32 brass tube section as maybe a strengthening section and then running the 5/16 stuffing tube thru that. But yet I see some that just run the 5/16 up through the hull. Can anybody shed some light on this or am I just seeing things in the photos....LOL :confused2:Mike
Mike,
I always use a shaft log glassed and epoxied in to the hull, in this case an 11/32" for the 5/16" stuffing tube to slide thru. This allows both permanent alignment and easy replacement should the tube get damaged and that does happen (more pics on the way to you). In the attached pic the stuffing tube did get trimmed back slightly after final install. :smile:

don ferrette
01-16-2015, 10:40 PM
Mike, I think Todd's been drinking. Haha

(2) 5s/8000 in series is 10s/8000. We'll below the 12k limit. 8000's are likely huge though. Consider 5s/6000 from mojo. That's what I run.

If those 8000's are max amps I would not recommend them.
Terry is spot on here, I recently did a minor "mod" to fit a pair of GP 6000 5S packs in mine, I would recommend you go the same route-
http://giantpowerlipos.myshopify.com/collections/4s-14-8v-4-cell-maximum-performance-65c-130c-lipo-batteries/products/5s-18-5v-5-cell-6000-mah-65c-130c-maximum-performance-lipo-battery

don ferrette
01-16-2015, 10:50 PM
Terry's right, my bad. I was paying more attention to my adult beverages.Always post BEFORE the buzz sets in! :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

Speed810
01-16-2015, 11:17 PM
HAHAHA!!!! Gosh I thought maybe somebody spiked my water I was drinking in the shop....LOL

All good information guys....Those 8,000Mah would be quite a tight squeeze and I was also concerned on the extra weight too...Terry. If I can get done with a good 6-7 laps and have about 30% left that will work for me.

Don....glad I checked on the stuffing tube log...that makes great sense. When I get this ESC in I'll have too get with ya on the cooling mod you guys are doing. I know Doug kind of summarized, but its not going to make total sense until I get to look at it and see what needs to be done.

Thanks again guys....Have a good night!

Mike

Chilli
01-17-2015, 12:12 AM
As far as ESC's, I ran the Swordfish 240 w/cap bank last year on a 8S rigger with a 1527 1Y and it ran well all season. That being said, Jay has mentioned guys he runs with have had problems with the Swordfish,

Don recommended I try the Etti 220 HV for my scale. John Finch has been running one in his boat and it's been working great. Steve did get a couple in stock a few days ago. I just snagged one so only one is left in stock.:smile:

If you go with the Swordfish, get the LCD box for programming. The card is a turd IMHO and I don't mind programming manually.

T.S.Davis
01-17-2015, 07:50 AM
Jay has mentioned guys he runs with have had problems with the Swordfish

Had 2 of these in my box. Where they stayed after I gave up on ever getting them to work. I tried to get hobbywing to build a 200 amp HV and they're not interested. I might try the Etti too.

There are guys that run them trouble free too so who knows.

Speed810
01-17-2015, 10:21 AM
Morning guys...Glad I went with the ETTI 220 HV. Now it will be a matter of taking a look at the cooling setup. Don and Doug Smock both modifies the cooling system somehow to make sure it was cooling adequately. Doug kind of explained it, but need to see it first to make sense of it. I guess I wonder if they made any upgrades knowing the cooling system needed modified.???

Mike I also picked one up just a few days ago from Steve. Already been shipped....:)

Well back out to the shop and see what I can finish up today.

Mike

don ferrette
01-17-2015, 11:40 AM
The "mod" to the ETTI is to address the only weak point we have seen, the cooling nipples are so close together and very fragile. Take all four nipples off, CAREFULLY drill out the aluminum cooling logs and fit 5/32" brass thru the now drilled out logs, you can use some thermal epoxy if you want to further secure the tubes. Also USE THE CAP BANK that comes with the ESC, can't stress this enough. Once you get through the somewhat tedious programming blips and bleeps (estimated time of completion is 2 Mojitos) you'll find that the Etti ESC is pretty rock solid. :cool:

Doug Smock
01-17-2015, 12:57 PM
Once you get through the somewhat tedious programming blips and bleeps (estimated time of completion is 2 Mojitos)

I have found that .5mg of Xanax helps with the above process. If you don't have any on hand perhaps a good stiff margarita or a couple of shots of Fireball will assist you in not throwing the ESC or yourself out the window. "Be sure you're on the ground floor when attempting to program this control" should be in the instructions.:laugh:

It's really not quite that bad, I was spoiled by the Castle Link.:wink:


Doug

Speed810
01-17-2015, 01:37 PM
Hey guys.....yep heard that a pitcher of margaritas might be in the future when doing this.....LOL. Kind of surprising they haven't produced a programmer yet!! But there really doesn't appear to be that much to program...there a lot of Car/Truck stuff on there we don't use.

Don....Thanks for the information...You can possibly expect an email if I have a question but it appears that the Mod is not that difficult...just a bit time consuming. The project itself has been pretty time consuming, I'm pretty happy with the way things are turning out.

Going to start adding a bit of Bondo glazing filler to the sponson today or tomorrow. Just to fair and fill in the overlaps etc. Now my understanding is that you can put small corner fellets in but want to really keep everything as straight cornered as possible, especially around the ride pad.

Be laying the glass cloth up on the inside of the sponsons today.

Later guys

Back to work!!!!!


Mike

Speed810
01-18-2015, 09:05 PM
Well got the starboard sponson sheeting completed, except for the top of course. The port sponson is coming along nicely. Wasn't able to get out there to do much today...was feeling a bit under the weather. Did get some sanding done on the bondo filling compound that I used on the strake line and up around the nose section to fair in some areas. I have used this compound before on my aircraft and it sands very nice. It indicates that it is totally water proof so shouldn't have a problem with the boat, plus it all will be coated with an epoxy finish.

Would be interesting to hear some of the other finishing methods that you guys use for the boats. (fillers, epoxy resins, primers and the finishing paints.)

Did get the Virginia Craftsman turn fin from Dick yesterday and it looks beautiful....Just had to line it up on the sponson heel to see what its going to look like.....:rockon2:

Have a good one!

Mike

Speed810
01-24-2015, 09:45 PM
Well still not feeling completely up to par, but had to get out there and get some work done since all these parts started coming in.....:banana:

Finished the bottom sheeting on the port sponson....now to add the trailing sheeting.
Finished doing some preliminary filling on the starboard sponson and completed the reinforcement and sealing of the inside of the sponson. Used West System epoxy along with glass cloth on the ride pad area and used to carbon fiber veil material to help along the sponson sides. Working with these materials was actually very easy and seemed to really make that sposnon rock solid.

Cut and fit a 1/8" piece of aluminum plate for the transom. Measured and laid out the rudder, wing support plate and water inlets. Drilled and mounted the rudder assembly and water inlets.

Also cut the 1/4" aluminum back plate for the turn fin. Just waiting on some information on location for the turn fin. I think I have it figured out, but want to be sure before drilling holes...LOL

Hope to have more done tomorrow.

Mike

Speed810
01-24-2015, 09:51 PM
Pictures of some of the transom work.

don ferrette
01-24-2015, 10:10 PM
Also cut the 1/4" aluminum back plate for the turn fin. Just waiting on some information on location for the turn fin. I think I have it figured out, but want to be sure before drilling holes...LOL
Mike
More pics are now en route to your email inbox. :smile:

Speed810
01-27-2015, 08:42 AM
Thanks Don..... Gottem!


Was starting to look at weight and balance on this boat....WOW.! What is the avaerage weight that your 1/8 scales have been coming in at? (Batt, included) Right now I am possibly looking at right around 13.5 to 14 lbs. Seems like that is really heavy. Of course I'm used to picking up my little UL-1 all the time...LOL

Thanks

Mike

T.S.Davis
01-27-2015, 01:54 PM
That's pretty good actually. My T Plus is a leviathan.

785boats
01-27-2015, 02:24 PM
Mike.
My U-95 is just a smidge under 15lb, & my U-36 Lauterbach is 13.75lb. Both on 8s1p ready to run.

Speed810
01-27-2015, 03:22 PM
Thanks Terry and Paul....Guess I'm not sitting to bad then on 10S1P and the bigger 6000Mah. Guess we'll see where it falls whne everything is painted and hardware attahced.

Terry any word on the Feb. meeting for MMEU?

Mike

Speed810
01-31-2015, 01:07 PM
Making progress....earlier this week finished the port sponson work. The trailing sheeting and the re-enforcement glassing on the inside are complete. Completed the initial work on the front canard system with 5/32 brass tubing and 5/32 rod as the hinge points on both sides of the center section and each sponson. Just some finish sanding and I'll be close to assembling the sponsons to the center section.

Once the motor mount arrives I'll start getting the center section laid out for the mount, stuffing tube and battery lay out. Then be bale to lay out the additional bulkheads and compartments for the center section.

If anybody sees anything that I may have missed before assembling the sponsons to the center section please feel free to let me know......

The finish on this boat will be in the Da-Glo Orange, but having a difficult time finding the right color. Anyone know of a good auto paint shop that can mix for this color? Been hunting all over the place and no luck yet.....

Also not sure if I am balancing this boat right, but I have been using a 3/8 steel rod directly under the back of the sponsons and adding/deleting weight as needed to get the proper CG. Has anyone got any other systems they use to balance their boats?

Appreciate the information

Mike

don ferrette
01-31-2015, 02:58 PM
The paint code for the day-glo orange is House of Kolors NE-103. :smile:

Speed810
01-31-2015, 03:02 PM
Thanks Don.....Did you just have that laying around or what???....LOL


(Actually was just looking it up and I see a NE-503, but no 103. Think its probably the same one?)

Speed810
02-08-2015, 07:37 PM
Finally able to get back out to the shop and get some more work done.

Most of Friday night and Sat. spent on the sponson shoes. Decided to get the lightest hard wood possible (Poplar) and cut and shaped the shoes, then epoxied them in place to the sponson. Actually I think they came out looking pretty good after the final sanding.

127823127824


Most of today was spent on some center section hardware installations. Mounted the servo tray and servo for the rudder and completed all the linkage connections. Will still need to install a push rod support toward the rear to eliminate most of the push rod flex. Also routed and installed some aluminum water coolant lines for the motor and ESC. The motor mount is about complete and should have that next week so I can start on the motor installation and driveline.

127825127826127827


I'm at the point of permanently epoxying the sponsons to the main center section....So hopefully that gets done tomorrow. Then add the flotation to the center section.

For some of you guys that have completed an 1/8 scale....when it comes to the top sheeting. It was suggested that I sheet the top in 2 separate sheets to meet in the middle of the boat. Now I can see where that would probably be easier and it would certainly make things stronger by tying in the center section and sponson side.
This also seems to have some draw backs when trying to cut straight lines for the various compartments and hatches. Anyone have a preference or different ways they do this. I know looking at Don's boat that the sponsons tops were done first and then the center section was finished off, making it look like it made things a bit easier to make the hatches and hatch wells.

Appreciate any ideas you guys may have.

Mike

Speed810
02-08-2015, 07:41 PM
Also completed the ETTI ESC modification today. That was real interesting....LOL The nipples were removed and then came the task of drilling out the heat sinks to accept the 5/32 brass tubes. Well I didn't think that I could free hand drill the heat sinks out so thought lets use the drill press.....WRONG!!!! :bash: Don't even try this....I don't know what I was thinking. Anyway the first hole I was drilling I accidently got the heat sink off center by a tad and it started popping through the top of the heat sink. Immediately stop and went with the hand drill. Much better control and finished everything with the hand drill...as long as you take your time and keep it centered its really not that bad. Even with the small poke through, I don't think its much of a problem and it will still function quite well. I used some thermal silver epoxy to install the brass tubes and their done. You'll have to use a small round file to work the heat sink holes so the brass slides in a bit easier. Make sure to rough up the brass and clean it well before epoxying in place.

You'll see me Oopps below that I put a small bit of epoxy over that area that broke through..... :doh:

127832127833

785boats
02-08-2015, 11:06 PM
Mike.
With the servo rod, I have in the past epoxied a length of carbon fiber tube over it from just befor the servo horn along to the bellows. They don't flex then.

I like to cut the hatches out of the deck before I glue it on. I cut them so that the edge of the deck covers 3/4 of the stringer & the hatch then sits on the ply frame of the tub.
Here's one I've just cut out ready for install. The center section on the one in the photo has to be separate, as there is a small step between the sponson & the tub.
But in your case you could cut the sponson skin wide enough to reach the stringer leaving the lip for the hatch to sit on. Then small pieces could be added across the tub at the front & at the transom for the ends of the hatches to be taped to. A small lip of ply or a 1/4" sq stock is usually glued underneath for the end of the hatch to rest on.

don ferrette
02-09-2015, 06:19 AM
I know looking at Don's boat that the sponsons tops were done first and then the center section was finished off, making it look like it made things a bit easier to make the hatches and hatch wells.
Actually the center sections were done first before the sponsons went on. Then both sponson tops were fitted, trimmed to shape then epoxied in place, 4 pieces made the job much easier.

785boats
02-09-2015, 10:06 AM
The 4 pieces certainly look easier for that particular hull Don.

Speed810
02-09-2015, 11:14 AM
Good Morning Paul and Don.....

I certainly appreciate the information. I'm thinking the sheeting for this particular boat is the way you did it Don. I know Mike (ML Boats) was saying to just sheet it in 2 separate halfs which made sense for some hull integerity where the sponson's meet the center section. But Don, you have not seen any problem with that part of the boat.....so I'm thinking the epoxy bond that is made between the sponsons and the center section must be plenty for this boat. It certianly will be easier in that area of the center section where the sheeting meets up with the formed airfoil blocks up front.

Paul...I can see that sheeting process working out well on a Sport 20 or 40 boat. I have my eye on that new GSX380 that Mike is putting out....LOL

So Don, You don't see there being any problem with that ETTI ESC where I blew through the top of the heat sink do ya? Thought for sure I'd get something back on that goof up....LOL (Even a "Way to go" :zip-up:....LOL) One other question Don, Did you make a hatch plate for the very front nose section to keep things water tight or did you just tape that section of the cockpit cowling between the cowling and the ply framework????

Put in my order for all the primer, paint and clearcoat material. Went through Coast Airbrush in CA. Seemed to be the best place to go for smaller quanties of HOK paints. They have been real helpful also on painting sequence , coverages and taping methods. There is one thing though....THIS STUFF IS NOT CHEAP!!!!.........LOL :laugh: But it should look really great when its done. It will definilty be testing my painting skills.

Well thanks again guys....Back to work.

Mike

cybercrxt
02-09-2015, 01:32 PM
I like the way Don did it. Didnt realize the center section was that far back. Sorry for the confusion! Eyeing up the GSX380 huh? Lol, its a bad, bad boat!!!


https://db.tt/76pmrLY1

don ferrette
02-10-2015, 10:48 PM
One other question Don, Did you make a hatch plate for the very front nose section to keep things water tight or did you just tape that section of the cockpit cowling between the cowling and the ply framework????

Not sure what you mean? My "electronics box" is watertight without the cowl being on it.

ron1950
02-11-2015, 06:26 PM
don how many 8th scales does this make?

T.S.Davis
02-11-2015, 09:04 PM
1507 haha

Sorry Don, a giggle at your expense.

Speed810
02-11-2015, 09:25 PM
Not sure what you mean? My "electronics box" is watertight without the cowl being on it.

Don, I was looking at the very front section (Cockpit area up by the canard) It appeared that small section did not have a hatch on it. I see the hatch that would be taped down for the main electronics and motor/batt compartment. And it appeared the rear hatch with the engine mounted on it must also be taped down to keep water out. Am I looking at those correctly?

Thanks

Mike

don ferrette
02-11-2015, 09:34 PM
Don, I was looking at the very front section (Cockpit area up by the canard) It appeared that small section did not have a hatch on it. I see the hatch that would be taped down for the main electronics and motor/batt compartment. And it appeared the rear hatch with the engine mounted on it must also be taped down to keep water out. Am I looking at those correctly?

Thanks

MikeThat "small section" at the very front got filled with high density foam and the rear area doesn't matter as it's behind the sealed electronics compartment.

Speed810
02-12-2015, 08:11 AM
Thanks Don,

That certainly clears that up....:rockon2: See all this time I'm thinking that the whole boat would be sealed including the very back and very front compartment....LOL Was a lot of head scratching going on here...

Thanks again Don.

Speed810
02-14-2015, 08:32 PM
128066128065128067128068128069Got some work done Friday night and today....

Finished cutting all the foam floatation for the center section. Next for that area will be sheeting the center section and wrap the front airfoil blocks and get that all sanded. Also routed and installed the water outlet and lines.

Also received the motor mount and cooling can from Dave at HRC. He did a great job on both pieces and they all fit perfectly. Started laying out the motor position last night to get the proper angle and placement.

Later today finished mounting the motor....used 1/8 ply as the base and glued in mounting blocks to the ply. Used 6-32 brass inserts in the blocks and 6-32 cap screws to secure the mount at the bottom of the ply mount. Also completed mounting the stuffing tube strut. Will have pictures of that tomorrow.

Have some work to be done on the strut in order to get the right depth. Want to start out with 1" 1/8 depth to start with. [By the way.....Is that measurement always taken from the bottom of the strut?]

Looks like I'll have to cut down the inside of the strut mount slightly so I can fit the hatch properly. It sticks above the hull deck right now...LOL Thought I had got the short mount, but I guess not.

Anyway...more tomorrow...

Mike

Speed810
02-16-2015, 11:52 PM
Got some more work done on the motor and drive system.

First pictures are the motor mount plate. Wanted to beef up the hull bottom a bit in that area so cut a piece of 1/8 ply for the base and then epoxied hardwood blocks to the ply. Inserted 6-32 brass inserts into the blocks and bolted with 6-32 cap screws. The whole assembly was then epoxied to the hull. Will be adding flat washers and lock washers after the full mount is epoxied with glass cloth.

Prepared the strut block and cut the slot for the strut in the bottom of the hull. Next was the part that I really had not ever done before so was taking some extra time on the drive line. Got the point where the stuffing tube would exit the hull drilled the starter hole and worked the hole out until the angle was correct with the motor collet. Used 11/32" brass as the log for the 5/16" brass stuffing tube.
Next was bending the stuffing tube. I inserted the flex shaft into the 5/16" brass and thought I would try out the tubing bender that I picked up. It bent the tubing alright, but left little bumps in the brass where I was moving the bender down the tube.

This morning I kept thinking about those little bumps / ripples and I just didn't like it. So I bent another piece of 5/16" brass tube, except this time just used my hands to shape the tube. Much easier and the tube came out perfect. I guess you sometimes just need to keep it simple....LOL

Had to cut the strut off at the back to be flush with the transom, then cut the stuffing tube to length at the strut. From there this is where I pulled another Oooppsss! I must have measured 7 or 8 times the length that the flex shaft needed to be. Every time it was the same measurement....
It was very easy to cut the shaft with a cut off wheel and then put it on the sanding disk to taper and round the end. Came out perfect.........except I was about 1/4" short. I know what your thinking....I forgot about the 1/4" between the drive dog and the strut, but I was including that too.....But maybe I thought I did and some how over looked it. Time to order another flex shaft....LOL

I did however get it all centered up and them mixed up some epoxy with micro fillers and glued the shaft log in place.

I would like to know if most of you are filing a flat spot on the motor drive shaft for securing the collet and doing the same on the drive shaft for securing the drive dog?

Started laying out the front cockpit area for an additional bulkhead and the battery tray. Looks like everything will fit great!

Well more to come later...

Mike




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T.S.Davis
02-17-2015, 09:38 AM
Well that's encouraging Mike. You didn't leave our meeting and think.....awe the heck with it. Sweet!

I use a dremel to buzz a flat on the motor shaft for the coupler. It absolutely will not hold without it. Doesn't take much. Same thing on the drive dog. If you really want to go crazy you can put the drive dog in place with Loctite 603. Not required though. After you get the dog in place, be sure to file the grub screw down flush with the surface of the drive dog. It's a little thing but add up a bunch of littles........

Todd Fleury
02-17-2015, 10:04 AM
Terry,
Five scales in the district. Time to find a bigger pond?

T.S.Davis
02-17-2015, 11:21 AM
on that....

Don't want to muddy up Mike's build thread.

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?50516-Feb-2-15-15-meeting&p=614529#post614529

Speed810
02-24-2015, 11:17 PM
Evening Guys.....

Been a little bit since checking in, but I have been working on the boat project.

Had to break away and spend some time with my wife for her birthday...LOL

Well all the hardware for the tub sections was fitted and mounted then disassembled. The front and rear sections were reinforced with triangle stock and then epoxied with carbon fiber matt cloth and the electronics section was epoxied with fiberglass cloth. I also had added the front bulkhead and sealed the rear compartment. The front compartment was extended slightly to accommodate the 6000 Mah batteries.

Since I got into the batteries.....are you guys just using a separate 1200 Mah 4.8V or 6V pack to power the RX or do you use a BEC wired into the existing packs?
I have quite a few A123 2300 Mah batteries that I could use, but that might be overkill. Plus fitting it up front would be tight.

I'm thinking one more light coat of epoxy in those sections should finish it up. [Battery tray ideas??? I see trays with 2 large slotted holes on either side of the tray, are you then threading Velcro strapping material through those holes somehow? Was going to use the same type of tray, permanently epoxy the straps to the under side and thread them up through the slots then epoxy the tray into the hull.]

Last night I cut and installed the 2 center section top sheets. Sanded them down tonight and they turned out looking pretty good.....I also added some 3/8 Sq. stock that was cut and sanded to 1/4 round to fair in under the front airfoil and the bottom of the boat.

Next (Hopefully Tomorrow Night) will be to cut some carbon fiber veil and epoxy cover/seal the airfoil sections and the front canard system. From there I should be finally ready to epoxy both sponsons to the center hull section and finally have this looking like a Hydro....LOL

Then onto the fun part of cutting and fitting the center section hatch work.

Had a few other questions that I'm sure you guys will lend some input on. As far as floatation in the sponsons, do most of you use a spray in expandable foam for this? I see a lot of guys using it...looks like the same stuff you would use for sealing around rough window openings.

Also in regards to sealing the outside of the hull.....are you usually using a thinned epoxy for this? My thought was to slightly thin some West System epoxy with Lacquer thinner and use a small 1 1/2" foam type roller to apply it. Just wanting to make sure it all lays out smooth to cut down on sanding. Was planning on 2 coats of epoxy followed by 2 to 3 coats of primer and then on to the painting.

Well more to follow.....Can't wait for this nasty cold weather to subside....LOL

Mike

tnt76
02-25-2015, 11:43 PM
Hi Mike, I'm fairly new here and have only been lurking. I have however, just yesterday read about thinning the West system epoxy. They recommend heating the mix slightly to thin it foremost, then if more thinning is required, to use Lacquer thinners. They do however stress the point of heating too much or adding too much thinners, leads to a reduction in the structural properties of the cured epoxy. All this info is available on their site at http://www.westsystem.com/ss/thinning-west-system-epoxy/ if you haven't seen already. Hope this helps

Speed810
02-27-2015, 09:43 PM
Evening TNT....

Your right....I have read their user manual from West Systems and they do state that. With the usual working time of this epoxy it can start thickening with in 15 to 20mins. Not a whole lot of time when your rolling this on. Want to make sure it rolls on real thin and flows out. Not real concerned about its structural properties for this part of the build....It is mainly applied as a sealer to the outside of the boat structure.

But thanks for the input.....I can always use more....LOL

Mike

Speed810
02-27-2015, 09:44 PM
Finally found some time to get some more work done tonight.
Covered the center airfoil sections in a carbon fiber veil. Sure like how the carbon fiber lays down and forms to curves and edges.

Also finished putting a thin second coat of epoxy to all the tub sections in the center hull. I think that will complete that work.

Started sanding the fiberglass canopy seams. Found that there were a lot of bubble holes and nicks, so I filled them with a bondo glaze. Also faired in the seams with the glaze instead of sanding down through the fiberglass to take the seam line out.

Should be ready to assemble the sponsons to the center section tomorrow.

Mike






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Speed810
03-01-2015, 07:55 PM
Well its finally looking like a Hydro.....LOL

Saturday completed the final assembly of the sponsons to the center hull section. Everything mated up perfectly. Glad I invested in some good number of clamps because I used every one of them.......:)

After everything cured over night I installed the battery tray. Will be adding some triangle stock and coat it in epoxy.

I'm still waiting on the dummy engine, but decided to complete the rear hatch. My thought is any modifications to the hatch to mount the dummy engine should not be anything that will effect the hatch mounting. The hatch fairing is RC Boat Companies fiberglass rear hatch. I cut the top part of the hatch out from the ends and sides of the mold and then added ply to each side and a piece of 1/8" ply up front to maintain the integrity of the molded fiberglass. Added 3/16" sq. stock to the inside of the rear center section to support the hatch. Used some small button screws to secure the hatch to the rail supports. Really pleased the way it turned out. Looks like I'll have to shave down the top of the strut extension and bracket supports a little to accommodate the hatch, but I don't think that's to big a deal.

So now on to the center compartment hatch work and canopy work. Still need to mount the turn fin, and cover the front canard.

Getting closer to paint everyday....LOL

Any comments on epoxying the outside of this boat.....I have an idea on how I'm going to do it, just looking for different ways and techniques that others have used.

Thanks..............

Mike

Agitator
03-01-2015, 11:16 PM
Are you going to use RC Boat Companies dummy turbine? I almost finished my rear deck before I got, and am glad I waited. But it does look the part :)

Michael


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Speed810
03-02-2015, 06:39 PM
Hi Agitator....

Yes... I will be using the dummy turbine engine from RC Boat Company. The rear hatch plate is also their fiberglass rear engine tray.

SO what kind of problems are you foreseeing in installing the dummy turbine with the rear hatch already installed??? I guess I'm not seeing a problem seeing that the hatch comes right out for any install process and can be modified fairly easy.

Am I missing something??

Agitator
03-02-2015, 10:02 PM
I actually mounted mine to the cowl. You will probably ending up cutting quite a bit of the can down to fit. My rear tray is separate, closer to how Don built his. My tray doesn't go all the way to the radio box, I left some space
for the rear magnet plate and was able to leave some of the entire can intact to install the blanket. Watching your build close to see how you do your's. Have not seen too many boats built with this turbine yet.


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don ferrette
03-03-2015, 09:38 PM
My dummy turbine is attached to the rear tray.

Speed810
03-03-2015, 10:47 PM
Thanks Don...I thought that is how you had secured yours and that 1st picture clarifies it.

Any input on completing the epoxy sealing of the outside of the hull? In post #119 I described what my plan was.
Just wondering if I'm on the right track.

Thanks

Mike

Speed810
03-11-2015, 06:49 AM
Update from the past weekend thru yesterday.....

Filler and one more coat of epoxy on the front airfoil sections and canard. Then finish sanding.

Mounted the turn fin with 1/4" aluminum back plate.

Mounted 1/4" sq. stock around the inside of the tub area and cut the top section to fit. I still need to cut out the center for the hatch and build the top extension to accommodate the motor and ESC. SO far so good.

After some hints from a fellow boat builder, cut and sanded the canopy to fit. Nice snug fit. Still work to be done. Will be cutting out an 1/8" center section form to fit the front inside part of the canopy to maintain the hull form. Some tricky areas that will be important will be getting the correct former cut for the nose section pieces so they mate up correctly when mounting the rear portion of the canopy. Also will be finishing the cuts for the air inlet, windshield and rear motor exit.

More to come....

Speed810
03-11-2015, 06:34 PM
Thought I'd add a few more.....

Finished up the heel sections and formers on the sponsons. Took a little time to get them cut and sanded to fit appropriately, but I think they turned out pretty nice.

Also added a photo of the center tub sheeting from the last post.

Well on my way back out to the shop to continue work on the canopy and see if I can get the nose section completed and line/tape out for the windshield.

Mike

Speed810
03-15-2015, 11:48 PM
Started getting the canopy fitted this weekend. In addition to the pictures I was able to fit and secure the nose of the canopy. Also cut the openings for the engine and the air inlet.

Built up the tub enclosure along with the extension box to house the motor and ESC. Actually had to redesign the enclosure twice in order to allow enough room to slide the batteries in and out. Dang there bigger than I thought....:)

Also started to mount the vertical wing sections. Slotted the verticals and the hull section. Guess I'm wondering if I could glue in the braces now and then slot the skins to slide over them or if it would be easier to just glue the top skins on, slot them in that location and then glue in the wing braces. I'm kind of concerned that I get a good bond on the brace in the hull. Any words of wisdom???

This is the first time that I have seen an ESC with all dual leads coming off of it.
Are most of you guys just soldering both leads together to run through the Cap pack then into one 8mm plug or are you soldering both leads through the Cap pack and into one plug?

Thanks for any help you can lend.

Mike

Speed810
03-26-2015, 03:17 PM
Well the boat is coming together pretty nicely.

The overall weight has had be pretty concerned, but some of my fellow boaters are indicating that the weight is not that bad.

In order to balance the boat with a CG at about 1 1/4" behind the heel of the sponson I am looking at close to 10oz in each sponson tip. Went and started to evaluate where I could drop weight in the back of the boat. Well the first was to drill out the back of the shoes since they are solid hardwood. My other thought is that I keep thinking they are a bit on the big size (as far as the depth of the shoes)
I never really received any feedback on the size...or got any information on the depth of these shoes. Basically are they supposed to extend down no more than approx. 1/2" below the back of the hull?? But they just look a little large and maybe I can shave those down to cut down on more weight in the rear of the boat.

Right now with the lead added I'm at 19lbs on the nose. That's with the shoes drilled/hollowed out. Feel free to add your opinions and thoughts/theories......LOL

In any case the tub section, hatch work is all complete. The canopy is about done with windshield fitted, and canopy framework completed. Finished off the nose block with the fiberglass canopy nose section. Top sheets are rough cut and ready for installation. Rear wing has been completed....Used 1/8" aluminum for braces....(drilled out lighting holes). Threaded the aluminum plate for 6-32 nylon screws. The horizontal wing was drilled out for 4-40 threaded brass inserts and epoxied into the ends of the horizontal wing, then 4-40 nylon screws used to attach the wing assembly together.

I'm waiting for the dummy turbine and wing strut assembly to perform the final balancing. Hoping to get the CG no farther than 1 1/2" behind the heel without adding more weight to the sponson tips. Once that is done the top sheets will go down and final epoxy work will be completed. Should have all the graphics and paint material in next week.

Back to the shop....LOL

Mike

Doby
03-26-2015, 03:29 PM
Don't add any extra weight to get the COG right...see if you can do it by moving batt/esc etc first.

Speed810
03-26-2015, 04:13 PM
Can't do that Doby.....Batteries, tray etc were designed to go as far forward as possible. The motor/ESC is the same....They are up as far forward as they will go. So now I'm left with lightning up things in the rear and adding to the front. When talking to Don Ferittii he indicated that he needed to add 8oz to each sponson tip. Just a thing with these boats I guess. Believe me if I could just move batteries forward etc....I'd be on it....LOL

Mike

T.S.Davis
03-26-2015, 05:24 PM
Think you'll have er done for the Cup Mike? Honestly, I enjoy watching the big scales more than running them. If you squint they're like the real thing. With electric motors they even sound kind of turbine like.

Speed810
03-26-2015, 06:10 PM
Hey Terry.....

I am hoping to have it ready.... I actually wanted to have it ready by at least May 1st so I can get it out there on the water with you guys, and get some great input and ideas on things I could change or do different. Hopefully changes I can make before the Cup. Also it would be nice to just get some run time with this boat with the more experienced drivers...etc. The way Todd was talking these can be a bit different beast to drive, so it would be nice to have some good coaching from the side lines and get comfortable with it before taking it into the cup. But that is the plan!!

Was almost thinking it would be fun to have at the 4/26 race and Todd and I can duke it out...LOL

Mike

Speed810
03-26-2015, 08:13 PM
Doby....

Like your ponds over there...very nice location.

Maybe have to set up a time to visit Canada and run with you folks....:)

Todd Fleury
03-27-2015, 10:50 AM
If i have a boat ready, I for sure will run it with you on 4/26!

T.S.Davis
03-27-2015, 11:47 AM
If you guys want I'll try to get another out for 4/26. 3 scales could run together if they were kind to each other.

Speed810
03-27-2015, 12:35 PM
Hey Guys....

Now that would be fun having 3 boats out there. At this point it all depends on if these darn parts come in so I can finsih getting the top deck on, balance, seal and paint.

Was out in the shop last night getting the electonics ready. Here are a few questions for ya::::

There is another small connecting cable that came with the ETTI ESC. Standard RX plug end and a smaller plug that appears it would hook up to 2 small prongs on the ESC. I am assuming that those must be to connect in an external BEC. Can you guys clarify that??? Would I be better to just run a separate RX battery or use an external BEC offf those 6000mah batterieis. Concerns..........Still trying to hold down the weight, but want to also make sure there is plenty of power to power the motor, ESC and RX/Servo if I use the BEC.

I was also going to use an spark aresstor type plug in the circuit. Anyone used these before? Was just thinking of mounting it inside the sealed tub area, still trying to keep it as close to the batteries as possible. If I'm not mistakened I believe that it is also put into the circuit after the CAP bank...??? Had an electric aircraft on 12S that I had mounted one of these on the outside of the fuse....Worked really well and saved the CAP banks a lot of stress.

Last thing for now....LOL I have all Speedmaster hardware on the boat except the turn fin (Virginia Craftsman). Was reading in another forum that other boaters are sharpening and plolishing all this hardware....ie: Leading edge of the rudder and leading edge of the turn fin. Is this somehting you fellas do to your boat hardware. This stuff from harry at speedmasters seems to be really nice stuff, but guys are sharpening and plolishing these items to a mirror finsih. Any Info on this??

Appreciate any advise you can lend here....

Mike

T.S.Davis
03-27-2015, 01:08 PM
Mike, I have zero experience with the Etti. Hopefully someone else will know.

I don't use a spark arrestor but I really should. Plugging these pigs in is like connecting a bolt of lightening. If you were playing with 12s you know exactly what I'm talking about. Hard on even 8mm connectors. KA'BLAPPPP! haha

You want the leading edge on your hardware sharp enough to take down a bison.

Polishing is much like the rough or smooth debate on ride pads. I've done it both ways. I really don't think that on a 10s beast your going to feel any different if your hardware is satin or polished.

Sometimes on turn fins I'll polish the outside of the curve and leave the inside of the curve satin. Does it matter? I have no clue.

T.S.Davis
03-27-2015, 01:11 PM
The rudder on my T Plus is not polished. Sharp but no shine. I didn't build this one. I'm inclined to trust the guy that built it though because he's forgotten more than I know about scale.

Speed810
03-27-2015, 01:44 PM
Your killing me Terry!!!.............LOL

So what your saying is do a little trail and error type thing and see is if it really makes a difference.....LOL
Might sharpen up the rudder though...although Harry puts a pretty nice edge on them.

I'm inclined to lean to your way of thinking that "Is it really making that much difference for the time you put into it"??? I'm kind of thinking ...NOT!!!
But that's not saying someone else might not change my mind....:)

T.S.Davis
03-27-2015, 02:25 PM
Yeah but it is a scale too. I can count on one hand the scale boats that were less than works of art. If you think it should be shiny then polish er up. On boats that I think of as high end I do what ever strikes my fancy. It's not always about that extra 1/10th mile per hour. Unless you're one of them SAW monkeys. Then every crumb counts.

Ever dead short 10s? Seen it at least a half dozen times no. Yikes.

longballlumber
03-27-2015, 03:10 PM
If you guys want I'll try to get another out for 4/26. 3 scales could run together if they were kind to each other.

At the Shelby Pond... You guys have bigger coconuts than I do. Nothing more than a dual staged game of chicken; #1 with the shore and #2 with the other boats. Although, I have never been the blossoming flower of optimism that others can be. :laugh:

Nice build Mike, thanks for sharing! I only wish my ADD would allow me to work on the boats I have let alone build an 1/8 scale! I have the drawings for a proven 69' Karelson round nose...

Later,
Ball

T.S.Davis
03-27-2015, 03:36 PM
I'm going to start slipping things in you drink Nancy.

Agitator
03-27-2015, 06:36 PM
I would drop a note to Don F as he is currently running an Etti in one of his boats. By the description on OSE, they do not have BEC, so you will have to have a separate battery. As for the extra cable, it could be a programming link or data logging, but again, I don't know, but Don would. Right now I'm still using my Castle and I have a couple of Swordfish 240's. As for my hardware, sharpening comes before polishing, but sometimes things a bit of a 'high' polish for shows and such.

don ferrette
03-27-2015, 06:47 PM
Actually Doug Smock and John Finch are running the Etti's but I set Finch's up for him and may try one in my next build. You will need to run a separate battery to power the RX and low voltage side of the Etti. :smile:

Speed810
03-27-2015, 09:06 PM
Actually Doug Smock and John Finch are running the Etti's but I set Finch's up for him and may try one in my next build. You will need to run a separate battery to power the RX and low voltage side of the Etti. :smile:

Thanks Don....was thinking the extra cable was for running to an external BEC. Appeared to be just a +- power sorce, but I would have to put a test on it to be sure. Was thinking I could loose about another 3.5oz going to the BEC. So you would run an external RX battery anyway even if it was an external BEC lead??
Thanks guys for all the sharpening and polishing notes. Should look pretty when I get them done....:)

Mike

Speed810
03-27-2015, 09:17 PM
Agitator....you were right on that extra lead and port on the ETTI ESC.....
Did some more research and found its actually an RPM data log port.

So as Don is saying....(Hal to the expert), I'll have to run an external RX battery.
Thanks again Don!!!....:)

Mike

Agitator
03-27-2015, 09:42 PM
i USUALLY RUN THESE rx PACKS-http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=emp-hp-fg305-0850-2s Looks like OSE is temp. OOS. Small and lightweight.

Speed810
04-11-2015, 11:01 AM
Good Morning All!!

Well just wanted to let folks know that I'm still working on this boat, but most of it has been little things...wiring, making cooling lines and some light finish sanding on the cowl. Other than that no major progression as I am still waiting on 2 major parts from RC Boat Co. The dummy turbine motor and the rear vertical wing braces kit. The dummy turbine seems to be the problem as these are all hand made. As soon as these are in I can mount these parts, get the final balance done, top sheets glued in place and start the finishing process, but for now I'm at a stand still.

I did decide to use the time building a make shift paint booth. Used some 1" PVC for a 6X10 booth with a door, installed a 20" fan and ducting to vent to the outside, installed filters for the return air, used metal clothes hangers to use as parts hangers and just used plastic sheet to cover the whole unit. Actually worked out pretty nice. Nice thing is it will come apart in 3 sections that I can store in the crawl space under the house....LOL It certainly takes up some room in the garage/shop.

I'll keep things up to date as things start to progress again.

Thanks

Mike

don ferrette
04-11-2015, 01:13 PM
Mike I have an extra dummy turbine that I no longer need, interested?

Speed810
04-12-2015, 04:40 PM
Don,

Sent ya an email..

Mike

785boats
04-13-2015, 04:19 AM
Mike.
The dismantable paint booth sounds great. I trust the patents are pending.:biggrin:

I hate all those fiddly bits of the build that take a lot of time & don't seem to show much progress on the build. All absolutely necessary though.

It's all looking good though.

Cheers.
Paul.

Speed810
04-13-2015, 09:29 AM
Morning Paul...

Good to hear from ya.... At least we know your still kicking over there... :rockon2:
The paint booth turned out pretty good. Cheap too!....:) Got the fan and filters in yesterday and everything works really well. I'll post a few pictures later this evening. All I need is something to paint....HAHAHA :olleyes:

Looks like Don has come thru again.....I gave Steve at RC Boat Co. one last chance to call his buddy to see if he was close to being done on my dummy turbine. If not I'm going to pick the used one from Don. F. Its in excellent shape and not to much cutting done on it. So it would work out fine. Just need to cover it ina different color fabric....LOL.

Well take care....

Mike

Speed810
04-22-2015, 09:54 PM
Finally received the parts I was waiting on last Friday.

The Wing strut assemble from RC Boat Co. is installed. Pretty easy install...cut the strut rod to length, drill and tap the end for the 4-40 threaded rod. Drilled the steel strap out to 4-40 and installed with a 4-40 nylon machine screw.

I was waiting on the dummy motor from RC Boat Co., but Don Ferette made me a deal I couldn't pass up. The motor looks great Don and with a little extra cutting it will fit perfectly. The picture shows it with the red blanket, but I stop over at Hobby Lobby today and assembled a blanket in blue. Drying as we speak....LOL

I may cut the front of the motor can back some more in order to give a little easier access to tape seal the electronics hatch.

So with those parts installed it on with final balancing, top sheeting installed and on to final exterior epoxy sealing.

More to come soon!!


Mike

Agitator
04-22-2015, 10:55 PM
That is looking good! One thing I did on my turbine, since I left quite a bit of the 'can', was found some Krylon X-Metal paint, and gave the can forward of the blanket a little color. I have a black blanket, but got blue polyester ribbon for the straps.

131129

Speed810
04-23-2015, 09:55 AM
Looks nice Agitator.....Like the color....that should match almost perfect with the new blanket I made up last night....:)

I was almost thinking of using some Krylon engine brown kind of metallic that I had used on some scale dummy tubro-prop exhasut stacks on one of my aircraft. Not sure yet though...LOL Choices, Choices!!.....

Later man!

Speed810
05-09-2015, 07:49 AM
Finally on the final leg of this build.

Sponson weight was added and epoxied in place. Used some No#12 lead shoot that allowed the shot to go completely to the nose of the sponson. Filled the rest of the sponson nose with foam.

Finished installing the top sheets last night. Took the pick after the first sheet was completed, but the other side is drying right now....LOL Will have some finish fill work and sanding today. Hoping to have the epoxy coating start tonight and final sanding and prep work tomorrow. Then its on to the painting process.

I'll keep the process updated with photo's as I progress.

Mike

785boats
05-09-2015, 04:17 PM
She's getting there .

Speed810
05-25-2015, 10:40 PM
Well finally finished the epoxy sealing process and sanding. After some final prep work this weekend in between the gardening work.....:doh:....LOL I finally got to the painting stage today. The primer took a bit longer than expected with some flaws that appear real good with the first primer coat. They were mainly small pit holes in the fiberglass. So I had to re-fill those along with some small areas on the hull. Sanded those out and put a second coat on everything.

Not sure why, but I kept getting a rough kind of sand paper effect in some areas, so I had to re-sand the whole hull and wing/canopy pieces. Not sure if that is caused by to much air pressure or not enough fluid flow.?? Any ideas from the painters would be helpful...:) Running an HVLP detail gun with a 1.0mm tip on 40PSI at the gun.

In any case after sanding the finish looks great and I'll be ready for the white color coats and then a coat of interim clear. After scuffing the clear I can then tape for the orange and also apply the graphics to the wing sections. After the orange is complete the hull and canopy get another interim clear coat and then the rest of the graphics added. Everything then will get 2-3 coats of high gloss clear.

Quite the process, but worth it in the end. I'm still shooting to race it at the Michigan Cup after some testing runs.....:)

So any of you painting experts that have any advise, I'm ready to hear your tip and ideas.

Mike132497132498132499132500132501

Agitator
05-25-2015, 11:03 PM
You are using HOK primer aren't you? I think too small a tip-should be 1.5-1.7 and about 20-25 psi. Sounds like you're bridging the scratches rather than filling in. I use a 2.0 for primer-but I use PPG / Deltron epoxy primer and about 20 psi. Are you using any reducer or just the primer and catalyst?

primer = 2.0
color = 1.5
clear = 1.7

Speed810
05-25-2015, 11:35 PM
Hey Agitator....Yep using HOK primer. Used it as a sealer mix 4-1-1. Don was suggesting just sticking with the detail gun and 1.0 tip so that's what I did. The gun data indicated that the gun should be set at 40PSI so that's what I did....Ummmm Maybe I should be dialing that down??

What do you mean by bridging the scratches?

Agitator
05-26-2015, 12:12 AM
If the primer is going on on the dry side(too much PSI) it won't flow to fill in sand scratches and such. 40PSI is what I use on my standard spray gun, HVLP uses much less pressure and higher volume of materials being applied, so the nozzle should be larger to allow more volume with less pressure. Too much pressure + small tip means the primer is partially dry when it hits the boat. the 1.0 tip would be ok for color, but should still use less psi. Primer is a much heavier medium than color so requires a larger tip to apply. So when you sprayed your first coat, it did not completely fill the scratches and it probably raised them more on the re- coat. Looks like it came out real good though.

nichismo
05-26-2015, 02:39 AM
woah that looks so awesome.

man im super jealous

Speed810
05-26-2015, 09:17 AM
Thanks for the advice Agitator.....

I'm thinking you are right....small tip, to high of air pressure and not enough paint. Although it went on and covered pretty well, it just caused some extra sanding that I was not counting on. I think the main thing that caught me off guard was the amount of pin holes in the fiberglass parts. But used some more glazing putty and all is well.

I guess I am also wondering when the gun manufacture calls for 40 to 50 PSI, if that is the pressure to be used to the gun....then scale it back with the regulator at the gun to 10 to 20 PSI.???? I know the data for all the colors and clear coats from HOK is to have the pressure set between 10 to 15 PSI at the gun. The Primer data however did not have any pressure data so went with the data with the gun.....My BAD!!!!

When you spray your colors and clears do you keep the flow knob turned all the way out and just control the flow with the amount of trigger pull? It appears a lot of folks do this. Was wondering if it would be best to limit the trigger pull to say 50% to 75% so not to get to much paint coming out at once.??? Like I was saying my biggest problem during my limited spraying of projects is that I can start to get runs from to much paint being applied. So I'm thinking very light coats, but then I don't want to get that sandy finish either...just a nice flow out. ANY SUGGESTIONS??

Nic.....Thanks man!! I'm sure trying....this painting thing will make or break the project....LOL So far so good, we'll see how the colors spray tonight.

Mike

Agitator
05-26-2015, 06:24 PM
Paint control to me, is based on how well it covers. Some colors, including some whites are more transparent than others, so require more coats to cover. I think for the first couple of color coats, I'd run at 80% volume and see how it covers. Once the second coat has flashed off, you could probably crank the volume up to get nice even coverage. Same with the clear. Are you going to put a layer of clear on and then the graphics and then reclear? That's just the way I do it as I clear over the color and wet sand when dry with 1500 grit paper, apply the graphics and reclear. Not sure what the re-coat time is on HOK, but that is why I sand with super fine paper so the paint will gas off quicker. Always spray a test panel first to see what will happen and help adjust the settings.

Luck as a Constant
05-26-2015, 06:34 PM
Stick with what the gun calls for. They don't print it for fun.
maybe you're reducer is too fast.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Luck as a Constant
05-26-2015, 06:36 PM
Fwiw, hok shouldn't be suggesting any psi. Psi is determined by what the gun manufacturer calls for.
But yeah... 1.0 way too small for primer



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Speed810
05-26-2015, 07:01 PM
Agitator.....I'm thinking your right...start at the 75% to 80% flow and test it out at about 15 to 20 PSI. HOK suggests shooting their color at 10 PSI, but I think that's a bit low for the detail gun I'm using. The clear that I'm shooting they call an interim clear that will be scuffed with a 3M grey pad after about an hour dry time. Then taping will take place for the molly orange and another coat of interim clear over the orange, scuffed again and graphics applied. The final clear coat is a 3 part clear called their kosmic show clear. It will get about 2 to 3 coats of that over everything.

Luck....I understand what your saying, but it is in every product data sheet that HOK puts out. It just doesn't make sense that you would shoot every product at one particular PSI and CFM flow. That's why I am thinking that the PSI setting that comes with the gun is the PSI setting from the source, not what it is regulate to in reference to what product your shooting which can all be different based on the gun you are using. Otherwise why would HOK be printing suggested PSI setting reference their different products?

Mike

Luck as a Constant
05-26-2015, 07:23 PM
I'm only a standox and ppg certified painter, and spray automobiles for a living... Go figure.
Good luck on your paint project bro!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Speed810
05-26-2015, 07:34 PM
Well just talked to Coast Airbrush where I purchased the product....they indicated that the initial pressure setting at 40 PSI for the primer was what was giving me the sandy texture. It was just going on to dry. So tuning that down to 30 to 35 PSI would have allowed more product flow and a smoother finish. As for the color coats, the color is going to be a bit thinner and to test it out with a 25 to 30 PSI setting and adjusting the fan pattern to about 6" and drawing the flow control down to about 50% at the trigger to start testing with just lacquer thinner. So as for the 10 PSI that's in the data sheet they couldn't tell me why that is in there because that is way to low....LOL But in the same token the gun recommendation is way to high....So I'll find that happy medium in there during testing before I start shoot this paint. Going to do that tonight and start painting color tomorrow.

So Agitator I would say your ideas are right in line with the information I got....Thanks again!

Luck...wasn't saying anything that your were wrong....It was more of a question if anything...LOL So the info that I got, does that sound like the way to go?
Appreciate any and all info....Would be interesting to hear what your set up would be in shooting this color....:)

Thanks Much

Mike

don ferrette
05-27-2015, 08:26 PM
Fwiw, hok shouldn't be suggesting any psi. Psi is determined by what the gun manufacturer calls for.
But yeah... 1.0 way too small for primer



Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkNot trying to start any tiffs but gotta disagree here. I've shot both PPG DZ3 primer/surfacer and PPG DP48LF epoxy primer thru HVLP detail guns with 1.0 or 1.2 tips with no problems, been doing so for years. All of my (detail) guns have a small SATA regulator right at the inlet, on primers I set the reg @ 30psi and 20psi for paints (which yield about 10-12psi at the tip for colors and clears). Line pressure to the gun regulator is set at 50psi. The gun I use for primers was about $80 (forget the brand) and my two guns for colors and clears are SATA MiniJet 4s both with 1.0 tips. As for not following paint manufacturers psi recommendations.... ya got me scratching my head on that one. I have ALWAYS followed the mfg. recommended pressures on Dupont, HOK and PPG and gotten great results, the paint manufactures make those recommendations for a reason.

nichismo
05-27-2015, 08:46 PM
Don Ferrette....

THE LIGHT SHEDDER.....






























come soon to a theatre near you.

Speed810
05-27-2015, 10:35 PM
Hey Don.....Thanks for clarifying that for me. Did some test spraying this evening and found 20 to 25 PSI worked quite well just shooting thinner. The pattern was a little heavy on one end so tore down the gun again and found that the needle and tip were was still a little dirty from the primer that I sprayed. Tested again and it was much better, but still a tad thin on one end of the pattern. I think its good to go. As far as the PSI recommendation from HOK...it did seem a little low to set the gun pressure reg. to 10 PSI...but maybe their talking more at the tip. That would make sense from what your saying...20-25PSI at the reg. and get about 10-12 PSI at the cap.

Anyway very happy with the finish achieved with the primer coat after sanding...so should be ready for the colors to go on. One question for you...was there a trick to getting into the tighter spots on the boat....e.g. around the inside of the sponson area etc. without a bunch of overspray on other parts of the boat? Or maybe I shouldn't really worry about it if it all flows out anyway.

Thanks for the information.

Mike

Doug Smock
05-27-2015, 10:57 PM
The boat is looking great Mike. Hope to see both of you at the Cup.

Good luck with the paint!

don ferrette
05-27-2015, 11:17 PM
One question for you...was there a trick to getting into the tighter spots on the boat....e.g. around the inside of the sponson area etc. without a bunch of overspray on other parts of the boat?

I always shoot the tight areas and edges/corners first. :smile:

Speed810
05-28-2015, 08:12 AM
Doug....Would be great to meet ya at the Cup Race. Hopefully this boat is complete soon so I can get some testing done.

Don, Thanks for the tip....Thats a great point that I'm sure will help keep me from over spraying other areas that are already coated.

Big Help!!

Thanks again!

Mike

Speed810
05-31-2015, 06:30 PM
Well the paint work is complete with a coat of interim clear so I can install the graphics. Have a little touch up work to do on the edges where it got pretty thin. Not sure if I can just touch up with a brush or if I'll have to re-shoot the edge again.
But it tuned out quite well. Thanks so much for all the tips. I got one on clear coating the taped edges before paint and that 132763132765132764132762worked out like a charm. Not one bleed through at all and very sharp edges.

So far all the graphics went on great except for one with a lot of letters and small on one of the vertical fins. So I'll have to order another one before I can move to the final clear coats.

I think the thing I'm most disappointed in is the difference between the orange paint and the dull kind of orange tone that the graphics are on the verticals. I was really thinking that the graphics were going to be much more brilliant. Opinions?

My thought was to check with Mike at Thunderboat grphics and see if they can be printed up with a color orange that will match the paint color a lot closer. I'm figuring that the graphics already on the fins should come off with a little mild heat. Then start again.

Other than that real happy the way it has turned out so far. Hope that I can get a real nice clear finish all smoothed out when I get to that point.

Appreciate your opinions and ideas.

Mike

Luck as a Constant
05-31-2015, 06:35 PM
Looks awesome dude


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

785boats
06-01-2015, 12:32 PM
Beautiful.

HRC
06-08-2015, 08:23 PM
Awesome Mike, she turned out beautiful.
Dave

Speed810
06-09-2015, 08:50 AM
Morning Dave!!!

Thanks for the compliment!! It gets the final clear coats when I get back from vacation.
Should really have those colors poping out.

Hoping its as fast as it looks...LOL

Mike

T.S.Davis
06-09-2015, 02:27 PM
It's absolutely mind boggling how much work these are. I'm cussing the paint on our little 10th scale.

nichismo
06-09-2015, 05:47 PM
just curious, which do you consider more work, if you intend to run a brushless setup:

ML Boatworks kit and associated parts (epoxy cowling/cockpit, and wing sets)

or

a fully epoxy glass hull with no gelcoat, made for nitro? (fix pinholes, seal off electronics, accomodating lipos)

i mean i know how so many reslky enjoy or perhaps even moreso gaining enjoyment in the build process than the actual driving itself, but personal satisfaction aside, purely from a labor intensive perspective.

even though I havnt built a wooden kit yet and should probably start on something simpler, I just love this hull/kit and watching it being built with all this documentation by others just makes it 5x more tempting!

don ferrette
06-09-2015, 07:03 PM
Looking good Mike! :thumbup1:

T.S.Davis
06-09-2015, 10:14 PM
Wood kit is way more satisfying. Cutting the wood yourself from raw sheet is super satisfying too. Especially if you design something yourself. Its a lot scarier though.

I meant a scale. A scale requires more attention. More work. The canopy for instance isn't an exact science. You have to figure out how to mate it to the boat. Then have to engineer a way to keep it in place. The tail feathers have to look right but they also have to get attached to the boat, stay put, be functional, and also be able to come off in a crash without destroying the boat. Mike from ML doesn't spell all that out for us.

Add all these tid bits together and some won't get through it. I've been working on a 10th scale for months. I don't think I'll ever be happy with it.

nichismo
06-10-2015, 12:19 PM
well yes I already know the whole satisfaction aspect of it, but I know you have built both and im curious as to which you believe requires more labor all together

T.S.Davis
06-10-2015, 01:08 PM
Wood is still more work I think. You still have to seal the wood and make it worthy of paint like a glass boat. It all looks like flat surfaces but if you look at Mikes thread you can see where he filled little valleys here and there he didn't think were quite straight enough. Then any place two piece of wood come together usually gets visited multiple times after it sucks up all the epoxy and leaves a gap. Those seam to pop up when you prime. Annoying.

I was just flipping through this thread again. Mike, the right side transom where the fin mounts is fantastic. There's no instructions on how to do that.

I suppose it depends on what your building though. If you build a Thomas T5 at least the canopy and the hull are designed to fit to each other. Sure you have to fill pin holes and such but that's just paintwork. Same thing with the West Coast Customs 10th scale boats. It's all intended to fit together. Phil and Craig already solved some parts of the riddle for us. Less invention required so to speak.

T.S.Davis
06-10-2015, 01:14 PM
Mike, shoot me an email if you want. We need to get this on a course for you before the cup. Just to sort it out a bit. I'll figure out a place and time for you to get some laps. Maybe at the Elks. I don't know.

h2o-racing@comcast.net

Maybe I can get Ken Joye to come out and take a look for you. He's my go to guy for all things 1/8 scale.

nichismo
06-11-2015, 12:09 AM
ya, I'm struggling quite a bit just fabricating my sub hatch cover, ive literally made up 3 different pieces and 5 different extension boxes just trying to find a workable middle ground. the way I see some guys craft their work with such precision, once it's all painted it's amazing to me how well the CF parts perhaps blend with ply or even balsa.

not being able to install hardware with the hull top-deck-less is a nice thing that wood hulls possess too, in my opinion at least. I am still really foreign to woodwork in general lol. really want to order a kit from Mike but incredibly indecisive as to which.

Twood
06-13-2015, 06:54 PM
Does anyone have any pictures of the shoes on the sides of the transom

Speed810
07-12-2015, 09:31 PM
Evening All!!!

Apologize to everyone for not being on here for awhile, but was at a stand still until the replacement tail feather graphics arrived. Was really looking forward to running the boat in the Michigan Cup race this year...but I guess there is always next year.

Terry...actually just saw your post, wish I had seen it earlier so I could let ya know that the boat was not going to be ready......:sad: Never did get a notification that any of the last 4 or 5 posts were even made. Usually I'll only get back on the forums if I get a notification. Guess I'll have to keep checking in once in awhile. It sure would be nice to get Ken Joye to meet us say on a Saturday or Sunday to go thru the boat and see if he sees any problems. I was planning on giving it a float test and possible run test this Saturday morning out at the lake were on around 7am before all the boat traffic starts....Maybe I should wait and drive over to have Ken go thru it first.

But I finally got the replacement tail feather graphics a week ago Friday. Mike did a great job in matching up the color with the paint color. Its much closer. I really appreciate Mike going the extra mile for me to get a closer color match. So the graphics went on Monday and finished the prep work for the clear coating. Had a buddy at a local auto body shop lend me the use of the paint booth and give me a hand in applying the clear coat. WOW....what a nice set up. I did a thin mist coat to initially seal the paint and graphics. This also prevents any fish eyes from developing. We mixed up another batch of clear with a slower reducer which was the ticket to get a nice flow out. The reducer I was using was to fast for the temps. Probably should have used a much slower reducer when applying the colors also....would have allowed for a much better flow out before flashing. Live and learn....,,:smile:
Well the last 2 coats of clear went on beautifully and flowed out to a great finish. We then baked it at about 130 degrees for 30 min. Bingo...nice hard clear shell. I think the only thing I'll do differently next time is use a graphics clear sealer around all the edges before putting on the final clear coats. Some of the very tips of some letters and sharp graphic points are sticking up slightly. Again live and learn. But overall I am super pleased how it all turned out, especially for a first boat build project.

Spent most of the weekend out at my RC club flying field and lake re-assembling all the hardware, plumbing, mounting the tail feathers and some electronics. This week I'll be finishing up installing/gluing in the canopy windshield, installing some foam floatation in the canopy. Also need to grind down flat spots on the motor shaft and prop shaft before installing the collet and prop drive dog. Other than that it should be ready for its maiden by this weekend. Hopefully it performs as good as it looks...LOL.......:lol:

I'll have someone taking plenty of video and get it posted as soon as I can.

Thanks to everyone on here that helped make this project a success. Your advice and encouragement was terrific and I learned a ton.
I had such a great time building this boat that I know I'll be starting another soon. Possibly a P-Sport or Q-Sport boat.....:laugh:

Mike134382134383134384134385134386

Luck as a Constant
07-12-2015, 09:42 PM
Looks good.
Pretty sure I told you your reducer on the basecoat was too fast.
Next time.
Oh well ... Nice job!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Speed810
07-12-2015, 10:15 PM
You were right Lucky!! Was just following the data sheet with the paint for the temps I was shooting at.
But for sure next time I'll be shooting at no more than a medium or slow reducer. I know it will make a lot of difference.

For sure there is nothing better than experience to guide ya.

Thanks again

Mike

Luck as a Constant
07-12-2015, 10:43 PM
Well thankfully you have solid colors. The wrong reducer on metallic basecoats really look messed up. That dry roughness in a metallic look a disaster. Solid colors don't matter.
But in the end the boat looks ridiculously awesome.
Now, I want to see it on the water lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Speed810
07-12-2015, 10:59 PM
ME TOO!!!! LOL I'm concerned on the weight...but most of the other guys are saying don't worry about it...even at 20lbs it should run well.

Hope so!

Speed810
07-18-2015, 11:56 AM
Well guys....finally got out early this morning and got the Miss Elam in the water for the first time.

Found out I have plenty of weight in the nose of the sponson's...LOL She actually sits in the water lower in the front than the back....and here I thought it would definitely be heavy in the back with the wing and all...

Also found that it really didn't have enough of the prop in the water even with the strut set at 1" below the hull. Plus it kept wanting to submarine on me which indicated that I needed to pitch the strut up slightly so I could get it our of the water.

So brought it back on the bench to do some tweaking.
Moved the RX battery from the front and moved it back to the bulkhead where the RX is mounted. That actually opened up some space in back of the power cells so moved them back about 3/4". Then loosened up the strut and moved the strut down about 1/16" and put in about 2 to 3 degrees up.

Well....put her back into the water, one power burst to create a wake wave and hit it again as soon as the nose came up and off she went. It looked beautiful going across the water...very stable and not a notch of trim required.

Now I know its not one of the fastest boats out there, but it will certainly be one of the most race stable boats. Still the Octura X450 seemed to perform pretty well and moved the boat along really well and that was with me being careful on the throttle, 3/4 tops and slowing down slightly in the turns until I see how it reacts in the turns. Even when trying to power up when coming into turns in 2 and 4 it seemed to pick up speed pretty quickly. When I get more confident in it I'll keep trying more power through the turns and see how it reacts. There also didn't appear to be and tendency for a blow over. The sponsons actually may have been still a bit wet, but not trying for an all out speed record....but race stable boat......
Well attached a video... https://youtu.be/vkcAkmsqppc not the best, but with an IPhone I guess it came out ok. Thanks go to my wife for a great job video taping this.

Appreciate any and all comments and ideas...prop selection, weight distribution or strut location changes....etc. Trying to learn as much as I can.

Thanks again for all the help guys!!!....:)

Mike

134584134585134586

785boats
07-18-2015, 05:44 PM
That's a gorgeous hydro. Well done.
But you won't know what prop or adjustments it will really need, until you run it at full noise. Or if it will have a tendency to blow over. I applaud your ability to hold back on the throttle & work your way up to it. I've never been able to do that.
You will get many answers on what props to use from many different people. On my 1/8 scales I run a Prather s240 & sometimes an x450/3 blade. I'm not saying they would be perfect for your boat, but the Prather might be something to consider trying.
Again, congratulations on a pristine build.

Doug Smock
07-18-2015, 06:36 PM
Congratulations Mike! Well done sir.:thumbup1:

Speed810
07-18-2015, 07:04 PM
Evening Paul.....
Thanks for all the complements. I am definitely proud of this project.
Thanks for the information too....I know your right......I really need to open her up and see how she performs, especially like to see how it turns when carrying more power through out the turn. Right now it really reacts like its on rails, but I'm thinking its running a bit to wet (to deep). I'm sure most of that is due to the weight.....That's a lot of weight to get out of the water. Its running the X450 right now, but definitely will be trying different props.

Planning on getting with some of our club guys and getting some information on different adjustments and see what we can get out of it. Should be interesting.....:)

Actually had such a great time building this boat, I'm ready to start my next project either a P-Sport or Q-sport boat so I can run in some other classes.
Going to be talking with Mike next week and see what he's got going....

You have any new projects going?

Mike

Speed810
07-18-2015, 07:12 PM
Congratulations Mike! Well done sir.:thumbup1:

Thanks Doug....

Sorry I missed ya at the Michigan Cup race. This boat just wasn't going to be ready and really didn't want to be there with only my UL-1.....LOL
Next year for sure. Hopefully have at least 3 boats to race.

Hope your summer is going well and the racing going well..

Mike

nichismo
07-23-2015, 04:28 PM
my god that is one magnificent piece of work!

amazing to see something like this come to fruition, compared to the first few pictures from the threads first page. well done!

Speed810
07-23-2015, 05:12 PM
Thanks Nick.....I'm like a new proud dad....LOL

It will be in its first race this Sunday....Well its really like an exhibition...HAHAHA!! Should be fun...3 boats entered!

So you getting closer to painting yours? I think you should finish it and take it out on the water man!!


Mike

nichismo
07-23-2015, 08:32 PM
Lol gosh I know I'm dying to get it out there! ! It's been over 4 months since the hull arrived on my door step! time sure does fly...that and I keep tearing down and building back up.

I'm sealing all the wood right now, I have a heat gun while I'm doing it to try and spread the epoxy out as much as possible, really want the absolute minimum amount needed to save weight.

really should be able to get the first and most important layer of Klass Kote on tonight. wish me luck!

nichismo
07-23-2015, 08:36 PM
also, I just had a minor suggestion for your hull that I thought would look a bit better:

perhaps add some sort of black lip or frame around the cockpit windshield? like Dons

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130142&d=1427669662

Speed810
07-23-2015, 10:42 PM
Hey Nick....

Good luck on the Klass Kote primer and all....It is some really nice stuff....just have to make sure and thin it down good or it won't spray well. I have done a couple of aircraft with it and learned real fast that it needed to be thinned really well.

I have seen a couple of boats with the black trim around the windshield. Looks really nice. I have also seen where some guys have pinned in little silver screws around the trim area for windshield screws. I'll probably have to do that....LOL

Let me know on your thread when you finish up with the Klass Kote primer....

Mike

T.S.Davis
07-24-2015, 08:37 AM
I always wanted to do the black edge and then use pin heads to simulate the screws.

Looking forward to seeing this turn some laps this Sunday.

Mine isn't as pretty. Battle scars and all. Runs pretty well now though.

134866

Todd is bringing out the Peters and May too. That boat is beautiful. New setup completely untested.

These sure will look cool on the water together. We need to get some video of us trying to stay off the shore on our tiny pond.

Speed810
07-24-2015, 09:04 AM
Hey Terry!!! Should be a fun time!!!
That boat is looking great Terry!

Yea...only have the one prop for the boat right now...an X450 (3) blade. It's sharpened and balanced, but sure would like to tweak on it a bit...de-tounge etc. Just not sure what it would do to the performance. Not wanting to change anything before Sunday and then can't run at all because I screwed up the prop...LOL

Like to try an X452 cut down etc.
I'll be trying some other tests tomorrow at the lake and see what kind of other strut changes do.

See ya Sunday

Mike

nichismo
07-24-2015, 05:35 PM
hey guys, for the klass kote , what ratio should I go with for the reducer? also, for cleaning the hull before hand, could I wipe down with a micro fiber cloth and rubbing alcohol? or should I dab the cloth in the reducer?I also have some tack cloths I havnt opened yet

Speed810
07-24-2015, 11:29 PM
Hey Nick...

I just used Isoprole Alcohol to wipe down the hull and then a quick wipe with a tack cloth. I did that with every step from priming to color coats. The only one I didn't use it on was the final clear coats. I used a cleaning solution from HOK to clean down the whole hull before clearing. I would not use reduced to clean the hull especially during your color coats.

On thinning down the Klass Kote primer it all depends on the fill your trying to achieve. I would start out with what they recommend and then thin down with lacquer thinner if you want thinner coats or your sprayer is not spraying it properly. I was usually thinning it to get it spraying a thinner and better pattern.

Mike

nichismo
07-25-2015, 12:20 AM
gotcha. I still got a fair amount of rough spots and imperfections so I'm counting on the first coat by hand to fill in the remaining miscues. Hopefully it still sands without any reducer and some talcum powder added as easily as it would from an airbrush.

my equipment (or lack thereof) consists of a little badger basic spray gun kit and a disposable can of compressed air.... but ive heard that PreVal can work great with KK so I figured this should be sufficient.

my epoxy on all the internal wood is drying, then I'll scuff the hull after that and I'll be finally ready!

nichismo
07-25-2015, 04:38 AM
whoops double post

Speed810
07-30-2015, 11:09 PM
Ran the boat last Sunday at our club races. The pond is just a tad small for 1/8 scales, but we got some good runs in. First run we determined that I must have hit something under the water....coming out of turn 2 I lost steering and she ran right up on shore. Luckily that side is all grown up with tall grass so it was a soft landing....LOL The brass rudder shear pin was sheared right off. Made some additional adjustments to he strut and put an X452 prop on. Definitely made a difference....it shot out of the hole and the top end was much faster. Now I may have to look at doing some work on getting the boat to turn better. Might try some turn fin adjustments and maybe upgrade to a better servo. I have a Hitec 5645 MG digital on there right now at 168oz of torque. Thought that would be plenty....thinking of a Savox 1256 or 1258 TG.

I have had suggestions on moving the turn fin forward on the bracket in order to tighten the boat up coming out of the turns. Anyone have any input on that? Or any other ideas that I may want to try?

Video is attached.....you can see how wide the boat is skidding coming out of the turns.
https://youtu.be/kmMStFz8vnQ

Thanks

Mike

Agitator
07-30-2015, 11:24 PM
Nick, if you pull the strut, you will get primer and paint in the slot and bolt holes, then they won't leave an edge to peel later.

Mike, what is the backset length on your rudder? And you do have the steel rod covered with a carbon tube for strength?

Speed810
07-31-2015, 11:08 AM
Morning Agitator....

The rudder is set back 1 3/4" from the transom to the leading edge of the rudder.
I don't have any carbon fiber tube on the steel rod. Figuered after tests I did with the size of rod and flexing it under pressure that it is quite strong. Hardly any flex at all. So not sure that is a problem...I'll check it again though.

Mike

T.S.Davis
07-31-2015, 11:54 AM
Mike, going out tomorrow for more testing. Fixed the wings, swapped the motor, reprogrammed the ESC. We'll see.

Speed810
07-31-2015, 01:09 PM
Sounds good Terry! What motor are you going to run?
Weren't you guys supposed to leave today??...:)

Hope she performs well!! Have fun over there.

Mike

T.S.Davis
07-31-2015, 02:29 PM
Next Friday. We may not get to run scale at this point. There are only two of us now. I've asked about running the nitro and FE together. They have the same problem. A lot of the local scale guys will be in Burton, MI that same weekend. They have a sweet race up there the same weekend.

Motor is a 2217/1.5y.......at the moment. Still not sure it will be the one. It's not as hot as what I had in there. I suspect that was gobbling some massive amps. Should be able to swing a ginormous prop with this fatter motor. I have serious doubts about this ESC. Hopefully getting rid of the soft start and reducing the amperage is all she needs.

Agitator
07-31-2015, 06:59 PM
Morning Agitator....

The rudder is set back 1 3/4" from the transom to the leading edge of the rudder.
I don't have any carbon fiber tube on the steel rod. Figuered after tests I did with the size of rod and flexing it under pressure that it is quite strong. Hardly any flex at all. So not sure that is a problem...I'll check it again though.

Mike

If I remember correctly, the farther back the rudder is from the transom, the wider the turns will be, at least on a hydro. I use 1 1/8 setbacks on mine. Since you are 'pushing' the rudder to turn, I would bet you have more flex than you realize, I am guessing you are using 4-40 rod? A piece of carbon rod over the steel will virtually eliminate any flex.

nichismo
08-02-2015, 03:55 AM
Yeah, I really appreciate the setup you sent my way Michael, its amazing. I had no idea carbon fiber was so strong until I had that tube (not rod, could only imagine a solid rods strength) in my hands, the force needed to really bend it was very surprising. Extremely rigid, I imagine numerous people out there probably bought expensive servos for their boats when in reality, a nice carbon fiber push rod would have been sufficient for them after trying it!

but then again, what does a newbie like me know? (srs)

Speed810
08-04-2015, 08:38 PM
If I remember correctly, the farther back the rudder is from the transom, the wider the turns will be, at least on a hydro. I use 1 1/8 setbacks on mine. Since you are 'pushing' the rudder to turn, I would bet you have more flex than you realize, I am guessing you are using 4-40 rod? A piece of carbon rod over the steel will virtually eliminate any flex.

Mike.....Well you might be right.. Had the boat out testing on the lake over the weekend.....
It was quite the test run actually...Second lap on the back straight the canopy caught some water and completely flipped off. Floated though...LOL
When I got the boat home was checking things over and the support brace epoxied in in the back bay for the steering rod snapped right of the side wall of the bay. So I would guess that's telling me that there must have been quite a bit of torque there on the rod bending inside the bay. Will be looking at a carbon fiber sleeve as you suggested. Now you would run that just on the interior section of the rod from the servo and end it before it exits the hull right?

Let me know

Thanks again

Mike

Agitator
08-04-2015, 09:06 PM
I run mine from the boot as far to the end as possible. I get mine from Tower, part #5722-Midwest carbon tube, .188"OD X .116" ID-tack it in place with some medium set super glue, and you'll be race ready. If you are using a speedmaster rudder, you can get just the pivot block in 1 1/8" backset to bring the rudder closer to the transom-to help tighten the turn radius. If you can't find the correct size carbon tube, let me know and I'll cut you a piece and send it to you.

135175

nichismo
08-05-2015, 01:55 AM
Hey speed, if you are still looking for the CF tube:

https://outlawhobbyproducts.com/carbon-fiber_pushrod-tubes.html

EDIT: silly me, source already posted! sorry

Speed810
08-06-2015, 08:27 PM
Thanks for the information guys....I'm sure that will do the trick.

Mike....I'm talking to Harry over at Speedmaster and will be looking at getting the 1 1/8" set back. Currently it has the 1 5/8" setback.
Thanks again for information.



Mike

cybercrxt
08-28-2015, 11:06 AM
Mike,

The build turned out really nice! Congrats! Mike

hazegry
08-30-2015, 09:58 AM
This is going to be my first scale boat after the GSX380 I cant wait.