IMPBA D4 P-Limited Guidelines for 2015

[DPeterson]

It's official. 2015 P-limited Guidelines.

Two basic points; Seperating rtr from purpose built boats and added the TP 3630 1950 to our approved motor list.

IMPBA DISTRICT FOUR
ELECTRIC CLASSES GUIDELINES

P-LIMITED STOCK
P-Limited Stock is a Ready to Run class for beginners or other racers wishing to get water time while providing the beginners some racing action. These are box stock boats. Modifications allowed, are the use of another transmitter/receiver, an aftermarket prop and any repairs to the boat due to damage or manufacture defect. Battery must be 4S or below. Approved, suggested boats and classes;

MONO – Aquacraft Supervee, Aquacraft Revolt, Proboat Impulse, Traxxas Spartan

SPORT HYDRO – Aquacraft UL1, Proboat Elam

CATAMARAN – Aquacraft Motley Crue, Aquacraft Lucas Oil, Proboat Miss Geico

P-LIMITED SUPER STOCK
P-Limited Super Stock is a step up from the Stock class. These are generally purpose built boats utilizing the basic motor specifications that come in the Ready to Run boats. The motor can dimensions must not exceed 36mm diameter by 65mm long. The manufacturers KV rating must not exceed 2030. Batteries in this class must be 4S or below. Any electronic speed control is acceptable. Hull must not exceed 34” in length. All motors in the class must be approved by the IMPBA D4 Tech Committee. Current approved motors are the AQ 1800, AQ 2030, Proboat 1800, and the TP 3630 1950. Classes and suggested boats;

MONO – HOR/TFL Pursuit, Delta Force Cyberstorm, Aeromarine Challenger

SPORT HYDRO – Blazer Whiplash, Thomas Stealth, M&L Sport 20, Insane 30

OPC TUNNEL – Woodstuff 28 or 30, M&L PS295 or PS300, AQ Topspeed 3 or Villian

MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION
In the case of not having enough Stock-rtr boats to make a 3 boat minimum, the Mono’s, Sport Hydro’s and Catamarans may be put in the same heats. Attempts will be made to run all the Stock-rtr together. There may be cases where we run Stock-rtr boats with Super Stock Boats to make the 3 boat requirement. Stock-rtr boats are welcome to run with the Super Stocks – just not recommended.

Not all Clubs in District 4 will be offering all 6 of these classes. Check with the Race Club you plan to race with, on which classes are offered.

IMPBA DISTRICT FOUR FE DIRECTOR – Doug Peterson, 608-393-7960, dairymasters@tds.net

[jakal]

Doug, that is good news for District 4.

Can you tell me if the Insane FE 30 is legal in the P-Limited Super stock class?

thanks

jacko'

[DPeterson]

Yes Jacko it is. I guess I could have and should have also listed the Insane 30 on our suggested hull list. Just do not see them in our area. I'll edit the list.

Doug

[jakal]

thank you

jacko'

[properchopper]

Proud of you, Sir :tiphat:

[TheShaughnessy]

A spartan measures 36" not sure if you have a length limit for stock.

[DPeterson]

No length limits for Stock. Just two requirements - Box stock and 4S or less.

Our "Guidelines" are developed for increasing participation, racer development and racing fun. No one we associate with gives a hoot about records or national bragging rites therefore making the NAMBA P-Limited rules ineffective for us.

[TheShaughnessy]

Should work. a super vee vs a spartan, that would be a sight to see, could be either boats race to win depending on conditions.

[RandyatBBY]

Great work Doug! I like it.

[DPeterson]

Got a nitro that guy that just bought a Spartan. IMO Traxxas got the length correct. The 3S versus a 4S will be interesting. I don't currently own a box Stock. Looking at the Spartan myself.

[Darin Jordan]

Nice, Doug.

Is there a reason you've left off the new Dynamite/Pro Boat 2000KV 6-Pole (BJ29 V3 motor)??

[DPeterson]

Darin
Any motor added to our list will have to go through a day of testing/data logging by our D4 Tech Committee in order to be included. We are going to keep our motors matched up by on water testing and not by manufactures listed specifications. If the need arrises we are not opposed to reviewing the Proboat.

Doug

[Doug Smock]

Good stuff Doug.

[DPeterson]

Thanks for the words of support. The written "Guidelines" was the easy part. We now have to put the rubber on the pavement and create some traction. We'll first try to get some of the past rtr guy's to come back. Their first experience racing their rtr's against us was not all that pleasant.


I guess I will pass on the Traxxas. 1400 KV. What the H does one do with that?

Doug

[Darin Jordan]

1400 KV. What the H does one do with that?

Doug

I know at the 2012 Nationals with 1500KV, I didn't do anything with it other than run away in P-Ltd Cat and P-Ltd Offshore, turning a X450/3 prop... Right up until it would either blow off or torque-roll around lap 3... :sinking-guy:

[DPeterson]

I spent a couple seasons experimenting with the 1800 in a mono, a tunnel and a cat. I just couldn't find a prop that the 1800 liked. Played with 447's up to 452's even. 2 blades and 3. It did seem that when I was finding a nice match speed wise the hull didn't like the prop size. Most all of my testing was during race days and I eventually got tired of beating myself so I gave up. Never thought to try the 1500.

Other than the 1500 I did due diligence on the 1800 and the 2030 before jumping ship. I can rest easy.

[Darin Jordan]

Just keep in mind that, when trying to find a "match" for the AQ2030, you are really looking for a match for an 1865... Unless you found a magic batch that were somehow actually over 1900KV... I've never, ever, tested one that was more than 1865... though, I seem to recall that, when we FIRST started using these, I tested a couple and they were 1930KV or so...

The actual KV explains why people are able to run an x447 on a "2030KV" motor...

[ray schrauwen]

If the 2030 was actuall 1865 then, what was the 1800??... 1800?


Just keep in mind that, when trying to find a "match" for the AQ2030, you are really looking for a match for an 1865... Unless you found a magic batch that were somehow actually over 1900KV... I've never, ever, tested one that was more than 1865... though, I seem to recall that, when we FIRST started using these, I tested a couple and they were 1930KV or so...

The actual KV explains why people are able to run an x447 on a "2030KV" motor...

[Darin Jordan]

I THOUGHT we had some "higher KV" UL-1s at some point... Turns out I did test some...

1943 for the originals
1921 for a new one from around 2010

For the 1800... it was 1769KV....

Here are some test results I did back in 2010 when the AQ1800 was first being offered showing this data.

I have no idea what they are these days, other than the three AQ2030s I have now are all in the 1865KV range... Maybe I'll take the time to go back and retest, just to verify again. Or, maybe I don't care... Indifference is way more relaxing... :wink:

125412

[Doby]

This thread is starting to "drift" towards Dougie's favorite topic.....:hornets_nest:

[Darin Jordan]

This thread is starting to "drift" towards Dougie's favorite topic.....:hornets_nest:

Naw... Just wanted to help provide whatever data might be helpful in selecting a group of compatible motors. You gotta know what you have before you can know what you want.

[RandyatBBY]

I THOUGHT we had some "higher KV" UL-1s at some point... Turns out I did test some...

1943 for the originals
1921 for a new one from around 2010

For the 1800... it was 1769KV....

Here are some test results I did back in 2010 when the AQ1800 was first being offered showing this data.

I have no idea what they are these days, other than the three AQ2030s I have now are all in the 1865KV range... Maybe I'll take the time to go back and retest, just to verify again. Or, maybe I don't care... Indifference is way more relaxing... :wink:

125412

JFMI What did you do the testing with to get those numbers? What tool or electronic device?

[DPeterson]

Exactly why you can not use manufacture listed information on motors to develop an approved list. Even after knowing about the varience it happend anyway. :doh: The root cause of the spec classes becoming a one motor problem.

LOL Doby - spec motor issues are in my rear view mirror.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Looks like some well intended moves in a good direction.

what happens when guys start competing with tp3630 motors. First off, it will most likely move everyone from the aquacraft and proboat motors. No big deal.

Next Im interested in what happens when guys start pushing the tp harder than intended. Probably failed esc's. So then the esc's will be pointed at as the blame in the system.

[rayzerdesigns]

it doesn't matter what motor you test..you can test 2 to 500 of the same motor..they will all be different..its just how they are..some will be way better than others..some way worse..

[Darin Jordan]

Looks like some well intended moves in a good direction.

what happens when guys start competing with tp3630 motors. First off, it will most likely move everyone from the aquacraft and proboat motors. No big deal.

Next Im interested in what happens when guys start pushing the tp harder than intended. Probably failed esc's. So then the esc's will be pointed at as the blame in the system.

At some point... people will finally get that this is RACING, and all of this is the natural cycle of things. If they'd get it sooner, the bitching would likely be WAY less frequent...

Then again... maybe not... :frusty:

[DPeterson]

Hi Steve

Already tried to push the TP beyond it's limits. Threw on some big props and ran it longer than I should have. Every time I did so the boat slowed significantly. Tell tale sign the set up was wrong. Motor came back 160 deg. Smelled warm. No melt down. Acted as a governer and not a fuse. Turnigy 120 was fine. I am sure testing and pushing experiences will vary.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Hi Steve

Already tried to push the TP beyond it's limits. Threw on some big props and ran it longer than I should have. Every time I did so the boat slowed significantly. Tell tale sign the set up was wrong. Motor came back 160 deg. Smelled warm. No melt down. Acted as a governer and not a fuse. Turnigy 120 was fine. I am sure testing and pushing experiences will vary.

sounds promising.

[ray schrauwen]

I'll take one of these motors if you do another round Doug. It's nice to try other options.

[DPeterson]

Hey Ray
I will probably put in one more volume order after the first of the year. Then that will be it for me. Don't wish to be in the motor business.

Got some surrounding clubs and districts interested in following along. I'll have an inventory of motors for them.

Doug

[ray schrauwen]

I don;t blame you Doug, thx!