Weigh in on motor comparision for 1:10 scale!

[Coug90]

I'm looking for some input here from some of the experienced racers out there. We have done some in-boat testing during the last year to find some comparable motor options to spec for our Div 2 class of racing in Classic Thunder. It was an incredibly nice surprise to find that the Scorpion HK 3226-1600 was across the board, and across different boats, a consistently identical performing motor to the NAMBA legal Himax 3630-1500 motor. The experiment showed competitive results under race conditions during the season too. I thought it would be a good, different option to propose adding to the inrunner options in NAMBA's 1:10 scale class officially and want to make that proposal. The HK3226-1600 looks to be the replacement for the 3026-1600 offered previously by Scorpion and then Hyperion. They all seem to be out there and have similar specs. However, our comparisons were simply done on the water, switching them between boats and comparing top speed on gps with the same hull, batteries etc. I'm hoping that some of you could help me fill in the blanks of what you would look for when comparing these motor specs on paper and report back with your opinions on how comparable you think they may or may not be. They look good so far to us in competition and are comparably priced too. It might also be a good idea to add a few more comparable motors to the list as motors are often discontinued by companies, but folks are still able to find them out there for a while even after they are and should be able to use them. The more comparable options, the better IMO. I'm sure there are others out there too.

Mitch Dillard
1:10 Scale Enthusiast
www.classicthunder.us
www.hydroscalecreations.com
email: hydroscale@gmail.com
2007 Boeing Dreamliner
1955 Gale V
1985 Squire Shop Brittania

[DPeterson]

:popcorn2:

[Coug90]

I guess no one is interested in this topic. After looking at the specs of the motors more closely, it appears that the only worry I have is the difference in rated watts for them. The outrunner is rated significantly higher, but I'm not sure how that will play out in 1:10 scale racing. I suspect that you could get more out of the outrunner with a larger prop or with a heavier boat without overheating it. However, given the speeds you can achieve with the currently legal motors, I don't know if a boat that size could handle that much more before becoming unstable. Maybe the 1400 KV version of that same outrunner motor would be a better fit?

[rayzerdesigns]

these debates will go on for days...kinda like the debate mr Peterson started..lol..im not sure you can compare outrunner to innrunneri have yet to try the himax..but the proboat 1500 and the aquacraft motors are really evenly matched..i guess it would come down to your clubs preference..until a rule change is made..i will be testing the himax this weekend to see how it compares..as for bigger props..i can turn a 50mm prop with no issues..don't know if I would want to go bigger than that

[Coug90]

Thanks for you input. Let me know what you think about the Himax in comparison with what you've been running. I think with the higher watt rating of the Scorpion, you could put more load on the motor without overheating it. I think more testing is in order with some larger props on the boats with both motors before we'll really know if we have a good fit.

[Darin Jordan]

Mitch,

In case you hadn't heard, PSFEMBC did vote to run the Scorpion motors for this next season in 1/10th.

By the way, I may be in the market for a 1/10th Modern if you know of one around. I tried to get a hold of Mark B., but haven't heard back yet... :)

[T.S.Davis]

:popcorn2:

Yeah, me too Doug. :popcorn2:

I'm building one of these and didn't really want to use the old 1500 I found in my box of crap. I think there might be an old blue AQ1700 in there too.

[rayzerdesigns]

Mitch,

In case you hadn't heard, PSFEMBC did vote to run the Scorpion motors for this next season in 1/10th.

By the way, I may be in the market for a 1/10th Modern if you know of one around. I tried to get a hold of Mark B., but haven't heard back yet... :)
come on darin..u live in Washington..craig builds some awesome moderns..come to winter warmups..sure you will be even more intriqued..lol..and there always seems to be a few for sale

[Coug90]

Mitch,

In case you hadn't heard, PSFEMBC did vote to run the Scorpion motors for this next season in 1/10th.

By the way, I may be in the market for a 1/10th Modern if you know of one around. I tried to get a hold of Mark B., but haven't heard back yet... :)

Good to hear from you Darin. Is it the HK3226 1600 that PSFEMBC is allowing or are there more. I talked to Jim Bickford recently about my proposal idea, but I didn't know the club was voting on any 1:10 motor proposals. I talked with another member of the club and he was wondering about the motors in 1:10 and what NAMBA legal motors were being phased out by ProBoat and are no longer available by Aquacraft etc. Do you have any info on that? I think that Craig at West Coast Custom Boats is you best bet too. I can tell you that he can lay up a boat for you to finish yourself if you like or any other stage of completion you want. FYI, he has three modern molds that I built the plugs for now and they all seem to work very well. One is the Tide hull that I sold. The others are the Boeing Dreamliner hull that can make so many other boats using different cowling kits that I make and the most recent is a 1980's Lucero hull that I made my 85 Brittania Squire Shop with. Mark B. has been out of town in Arizona off and on dealing with a family emergency, so it may take him a little while to get back to you.

Mitch

[rayzerdesigns]

so the scorpion motor is a outrunner??

[Coug90]

Yes, the Scorpion HK3226-1600 (http://www.scorpionsystem.com/catalog/motors/hk32/HK_3226_1600/) has shown good performance in line with what the other NAMBA legal motors in 1:10 scale have shown and I'm thinking about drawing up a proposal to have it and the older Scorpion HK3026-1600 and Hyperion HS3026-1600 to the list of legal motors. So far, they seem fairly comparable, but I was a little worried about watts. The outrunners have a considerably higher watt rating, but I'm not sure how much that means in comparison since the design is so different. So far, we have seen them be very evenly matched in competition and limited testing against the motors that are currently legal, especially the Himax 3630-1500 (http://www.maxxprod.com/pdf/HB3630-xx00.pdf).

[rightturnonly]

Mitch,

Good to see this is getting some input. I think it's safe to say the majority of the 1/10th scales are in the northwest. It would be interesting to see how the comparison of motors plays out over a full season of racing.

[Coug90]

We made the Himax and the Scorpion motors legal in our division 2 in Classic Thunder this season, so we got a full year of racing with them and had good results with both. They seem to match up really well. I intend on making the proposal if I can find time to write it up for NAMBA consideration. We have a district meeting coming up in February. We will also be including the Scorpion and Hyperion 1600 motors as part of the Triple Crown Series out west in 2015. Haven't made that announcement official yet though. It's been good racing all around, but considering you never know what motors ProBoat or Aquacraft will keep offering (or any company for that matter) it seems a good idea to be proactive in adding to the list of motor options if we want to stay ahead of the game.

[rayzerdesigns]

well testing over weekend went well..i would say the himax and proboat 1500, and the aquacraft are fairly close..withe the aquacraft not liking bigger 50mm props..seems to run best on 47 and 48mm..that being said I would be open to trying the scorpion..tried a 52mm prop on sunday..really seemed to upset boat in corners..and is probably on upper end of temp scale..is the scorpion motor a outrunner??

[Coug90]

Yes, the Scorpion HK3226-1600 (current offering), HK3026-1600 and the Hyperion HS3026-1600(replaced by the 3226, but can still be found for sale.) are all outrunners that are very popular helicopter motors. I think they are very comparable to the other motors already in the class and they seem to be a good fit. It's interesting that you saw the boat get unstable and upset in the corners when the props got really big. I figure that this may help even the playing field a bit if the outrunner with their higher watt rating. I wondered if this would allow them to throw a bigger prop than the inrunners without overheating. I think the inrunners are quicker on acceleration, but may have less grunt for bigger props. However we're at a point in performance where the boats will suffer in stability once you start running the larger props on them at high speeds. The outrunner might allow a guy with a heavier or wet running boat to get more out of the boat than the inrunners will allow, but I haven't proven that. I see no great differences in their compared performance in competition so far. I would be interested to see what you think after you try one of the outrunner motors. They are slightly more expensive, but you can find them on sale out there too.

I hope you'll share your results if you try one of them. In testing them against each other in three boats, each boat ran identical max speeds with the Himax and the Scorpion motor down to 1/10 mph. We didn't get into the really big props while testing, but the results were promising enough run the season with them included with the Himax. The inrunners and outrunners make the boat "feel" different when driving them at the same speeds. I can't explain it, but the outrunners make the boat feel more "floaty" and "smooth" when accelerating. The inrunners seem to feel more "quick" and "immediate" when accelerating. Maybe the outrunner creates a gyro effect with it's spinning mass. I don't know, but you may notice it too. Hope to hear what you think soon. Thanks for your interest.

[rayzerdesigns]

im gonna order one this week..what prop are u guys running??

[Darin Jordan]

Here is a pretty basic fact... There are enough 1/10th Scale guys that are NAMBA members to pretty much get anything passed for FE if they want it passed. Aren't enough voting members in the entire country from an FE perspective, especially those that will actually take the time to vote (WHY is our country in such a mess these days??? Hmmmmm....).

If they can get the proposal up for a vote (through their District directors, etc.), it'll pretty much pass on their votes alone, unless someone mounts a Nitro/Gas "counter-offensive"...

I'm going to enjoy watching this one... :popcorn2:

[rayzerdesigns]

lol darin..no popcorn..it seems the scale guys are on same page..and mitch..as for the hulls not being stable at much faster..i have had my 10th Budweiser bradshaw hull over 60mph with a 40x72 motor..no problems with stability..just have to run a lot of wing

[Coug90]

im gonna order one this week..what prop are u guys running??

I have been running the Himax in my division 2 boat and started out with the Octura X447R detongued and with a little cup in it. I haven't tried the cnc 48mm yet with that boat, but I have most recently run it with a cnc 3-blade 46mm and it's showing promise. I don't have much time on the boat yet, but look forward to getting more testing in. I would try the same props to start with that you were running already and go from there. I haven't tried anything much larger than that and it would likely make the ride suffer. Looking forward to hearing what you think when you've run both motors with different props etc on your boat.

[Coug90]

Here is a pretty basic fact... There are enough 1/10th Scale guys that are NAMBA members to pretty much get anything passed for FE if they want it passed. Aren't enough voting members in the entire country from an FE perspective, especially those that will actually take the time to vote (WHY is our country in such a mess these days??? Hmmmmm....).

If they can get the proposal up for a vote (through their District directors, etc.), it'll pretty much pass on their votes alone, unless someone mounts a Nitro/Gas "counter-offensive"...

I'm going to enjoy watching this one... :popcorn2:

Darin, what is the status of the current ProBoat and Aquacraft motors that are listed for 1:10 Scale use. You hear so many rumors about whether they still produce them or not or if they've gone in another direction completely for their RTR models and won't continue offering them etc. I figure if anyone would know, you would.

[rayzerdesigns]

I just picked up 2 proboat motors..so they are still avail for a bit I guess..I ordered them from my local hobby shop

[Darin Jordan]

Darin, what is the status of the current ProBoat and Aquacraft motors that are listed for 1:10 Scale use. You hear so many rumors about whether they still produce them or not or if they've gone in another direction completely for their RTR models and won't continue offering them etc. I figure if anyone would know, you would.

Can't speak for the AquaCraft motors.

Pro Boat has discontinued the 1500 and 1800KV motors. The 1800's are out of stock. There are still 1500's in stock. Get them while you can.

[TheShaughnessy]

I was looking at AQ motors the other day and it seems the original blue can, what I call the SV27 motor is still available.


Darin any idea on when the new 2000kv motor will be in stock? Fast serve isn't showing a date.

[Darin Jordan]

Darin any idea on when the new 2000kv motor will be in stock? Fast serve isn't showing a date.

I'm sorry, I really don't know. I'll inquire and see if I can find out.

[Coug90]

Thanks for the info Darin. This is exactly why the spec classes need to continue to look for comparable options that fall into the same performance range. I was looking around yesterday and see that Leopard offers a motor that looks to fit the bill for testing in 1:10 scale. Very affordable 3650 sized motor (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=leo-3650&cat=148) with 800 watts and 1650 kv. Anyone ever try this motor? It might be worth looking at in the future too. The numbers look fairly comparable.

[T.S.Davis]

Mitch, something to consider. Outside of the NW where scale is a staple, when guys that don't run scale watch them race there is a common comment. I hear it every time I see scale go......."why are they so slow?" At least twice I've hear "like watching paint dry".

My point is, it might be worth considering a bit more power for these in the future. Just a bit. Not like Neu power. If you guys are thinking about moving to something outside of the RTR selection that doesn't break the bank you might at as well make the performance better. It might trickle out into the rest of the country that way. ERCU used to run Astro motors if I remember correctly so I doubt anybody cares about the RTR market motors.

We tried an SS 3650 in limited just before the water froze. With the SS brand the 3650 didn't have enough rotor mass to turn props the boats want. Even in the cold water they couldn't give us what we wanted. We have a couple different options coming in to test but the water is a bit chunky here now. The Leopard may be different.

A good possibility might be the TP motor that Peterson is using in D4. That would likely be a bit tougher, a tic more power, and "should" be available for longer period.

Those outrunners have a higher heat tolerance. I'm surprised nobody has thrown more prop at them.

[rayzerdesigns]

I like that idea terry..I think classic thunder in their modern class which is division 3 is any motor..only their vintage and older hydrostatic run spec motors..I know name a rules and ercu run spec..but I don't think 50 mph or little faster is slow..If you talk to most of the guys it's more for scale realism..but I also like to go faster..I have had my modern at 60 with a 40x74 motor..but if u flip at that speed..pretty much assured a loss of hull..it is a fun class..I should have my scorpion motor here on monday..and I fully plan on throwing some prop at it..

[Darin Jordan]

Racing is racing, whether the boats are capable of 40 or 50 or 60. Plus, speed just makes more damage, and scale is hard enough to do without the additional damage.

[rayzerdesigns]

I agree..The racing seems to be close..and believe me..When u crash and destroy a 900$ hull..it hurts..

[T.S.Davis]

I understand Darin but if the speeds don't attract people..................next thing you know you have N1 participation. 10th scale doesn't run much outside of a couple pockets.

[rayzerdesigns]

I really don't think speeds are bad terry..they are close to lsh..just don't look that fast because of the size..and I think mainly west coast because of the builders are on this coast..not to mention..u r looking at 600 to 1000 for a hull..

[longballlumber]

I like that idea terry..I think classic thunder in their modern class which is division 3 is any motor..only their vintage and older hydrostatic run spec motors..I know name a rules and ercu run spec..but I don't think 50 mph or little faster is slow..If you talk to most of the guys it's more for scale realism..but I also like to go faster..I have had my modern at 60 with a 40x74 motor..but if u flip at that speed..pretty much assured a loss of hull..it is a fun class..I should have my scorpion motor here on monday..and I fully plan on throwing some prop at it..


Racing is racing, whether the boats are capable of 40 or 50 or 60. Plus, speed just makes more damage, and scale is hard enough to do without the additional damage.


I find these statements interesting... If there is THAT much deconstruction because of simply flipping; I would be building a little tougher hull.

Later,
Ball

[Fluid]

......if there is THAT much deconstruction because of simply flipping; I would be building a little tougher hull....With the current restriction of limited motor power, performance would suffer even more. And the alternative of light with strength costs even more......


Worrying about attracting people to a work-intensive, costly, liocal lmited interest class should be secondary. We do not need to grow every class....we have too many as it is. The guys who actually run the class consistently should make the motor/speed decision, not a bunch of bystanders.




.

[T.S.Davis]

The guys who actually run the class consistently should make the motor/speed decision, not a bunch of bystanders.

....and those that aren't but would like to BE "the guys that actually consistently run the class" should what? Keep their opinion to themselves? Got it. Mitch asked for us to weigh in. Did that. He didn't say "If your not in the northwest please keep your opinion to yourself".

I think Mikes point was that all this scale damage can't possibly be the result of blow overs. They're more likely impacts with something. Other boats, land, something. You can't get lighter than my Whip and it doesn't disintegrate if it blows off the water. If a blow over equates to total destruction of your ride your building it wrong.

If we're going to let 10th be just a northwest thing then go back to 700 motors. Racing is racing. Parity is king. But...........speed kills. Okay then run em on N1 power. Nice and slow and safe with no repairs ever.

[Greg Schweers]

I have one of Brian's 8255, I told him I wanted it 2 lbs. and the boat weighs exactly 2 lbs. I believe in putting weight where it's needed. I have 6 oz. of lead in the right sponson. I also run two 2S 6000 because I want the extra weight. The old ProBoat motor ran ok, the HiMax runs way better than the old ProBoat. The new ProBoat is a little better than the HiMax. The Scorpion runs really good, but until I get it on a full course to see how it pulls the corners, I won't know if it's better than the new ProBoat. I also have an Airdam, run a stock 447 de-tongued, and I'm going to order a TP motor (1500) to see how this motor compares with the others. I actually think that the speed these boats are running is perfect. Half the time I can't run wide-open anyway. You have to remember these boats are 34+inches, and they're not cheap to build. I'd never put this boat in a 6-boat heat (I wouldn't take the chance).

[rayzerdesigns]

the only weak part in the blow overs is the rear wing uprights..i have added fiberglass to the mounts and made the rear horizontal wing easier to break away..seems to be working well..erry you should get one..they are fun..and I have no problem with 6 boats in a heat..if you come out to winer warmups terry..i will let you take mine for a couple laps..btw my scorpion will be here Monday..will get in in and test this week

[rayzerdesigns]

Well mitch..u guys have a motor that is stout..tested yesterday with new skorpion..Holy crap..not changing anything setup wise I was a little over 1mph faster..tried a prop with more pitch as motor temps were below 100 degrees..After a little strut adjustment let's just say if namba approves this motor..it's will be my choice..gps speed was 54mph..insane!!! I also feel it out accelerates my probation and himax..boat wants to jump out of water..really impressed..

[Darin Jordan]

.After a little strut adjustment let's just say if namba approves this motor..it's will be my choice..gps speed was 54mph..insane!!! I also feel it out accelerates my probation and himax..boat wants to jump out of water..really impressed..

And so begins the demise of the P-LTD classes...

[rayzerdesigns]

Lol darrin..no demise..they allow this in their division 2 boats..I stick to rules for club racing here in scottsdale..but I do like to travrl..so nice to know what motors work and how they perform..that motor is stout though..going to be trying a few more things with props on the new proboat motor..As I feel it is a better motor than the himax..I like the p limited classes..they are my favorite

[T.S.Davis]

This confirms my suspicion. The outrunner will push more prop/more pitch without getting too whiny.

That Scorpion motor is available from other sources too. I believe Hyperian sells one and I think there is a Turnigy version too.

[Fluid]

That Scorpion motor is available from other sources too. I believe Hyperian sells one and I think there is a Turnigy version too.Great, so instead of one new motor we will have three? It is a given that NAMBA will have to update the Limited motor list, but whatever happened to KISS? :wink:




.

[Doby]

Something wrong with having a choice??

[T.S.Davis]

Great, so instead of one new motor we will have three? It is a given that NAMBA will have to update the Limited motor list, but whatever happened to KISS? :wink:.

I have no idea. Didn't we just try to do this dance with P limited?

You may be right Jay. Pick ONE good one and run with it till ya can't get em. They ran for years on Astro40's I think.

[T.S.Davis]

For the record......we're talking about scale motors and not P limited motors.

[Darin Jordan]

For the record......we're talking about scale motors and not P limited motors.

Based on what we were told at our PSFEMBC meeting, I don't think that's the case. The P-LTD Motor list is on the radar...

[Darin Jordan]

Something wrong with having a choice??

Is it really a "choice", if it's "clearly 1mph faster", and you can prop it up 1 or 2 prop sizes?

Oh, there I go again, thinking like a RACER...

[Fluid]

There can be plenty wrong with having choices. I know that younger folks are currently raised on the idea that choices are somehow automatically good - but that is largely a marketing concept. How many smart phone choices do we really need? That isn't about need, it's about selling. More choices lead to building marketing advantages.

But I digress. Perhaps I am just out of touch but based on the history of motor-specified racing, too many choices simply leads to the dominance of one or two motors and the added expense of boaters finding out which ones are the ringers. We can look at the original LSH class and the 700 motors - not pretty. How many today race successfully in P-LSH with any motor other than the UL-1? How many newbies bought one of the several listed specified motors only to be outclassed on the race course by the ringers? Terry is right, single-motor classes have been run with success. No one lost any sleep over it, they just bought the specified motor and raced. As long as the specified motors are widely available, there is no problem with a limited number of choices.


.

[Doby]

Is it really a "choice", if it's "clearly 1mph faster", and you can prop it up 1 or 2 prop sizes?

Oh, there I go again, thinking like a RACER...

Stop that!

[Doby]

Alright...I give...one motor for all and all for one motor. Nothing like a motor manufacturer having us all by our short and you know whats:w00t:

Time to go run with the cheese heads:blink:.

I'd love to build a 1/10th but from what I saw at the Nats this year, driving in the opposite direction around the course seems to be a major challange!

[rayzerdesigns]

Lol doby..of course there are some that don't drive well..As for right there are basically 3 motors on the namba list..The himax 1500..The aquacraft sv27..and the proboat 1500..With the proboat going out of production..that still leaves 2 options..Our club follows namba rules..so that's what I run..but being that I fly for free and really enjoy this class..I like to travel to races..so if there is a motor that is better..well then I want to run it because I like to be competitive..I will venture to say that there will be a big showing at nuts this year in the modern and vintage class..If any of you guys have the chance to make it to winter warmup this year..There should be a good showing also..I for one love the realistic looks of these boats..and now with more people running them..it's even better..but back on topic..The scorpion is Def a faster motor..but I also have no problem with the namba rules..

[T.S.Davis]

Nothing like a motor manufacturer having us all by our short and you know whats:w00t:


Isn't that what just happened with limited? To a degree? A hiccup in the food chain.

I don't have the answer but the 2030 supply was coming from an RTR boat manufacturer and not from a motor manufacturer. AQ was directly effected by the decision making process of "others". Same thing happened with PB. They're supplier dumped their line based on numbers. If we're buying from some motor supplier (pick one, Scorpion, TP, Leopard, whatever) it's direct. They exist to sell motors. Might be different.

The cheese heads just made a set of RTR classes and a set of "one motor" classes. You can run the box art motors in both (oh look! choice!) but you will lose against the TP. This is what Jay was saying. You can run these Pinto motors or we have this option over here that's the same size but lasts longer, cost about the same, and delivers more power. ummmmm......choice? Happened to us with the SS1 motors. You had choices with the 700 motors............unless you wanted to win. Then there was one "choice".

I was hoping this was just about scale. The limited motors will be a tougher nut to crack. You can't buy a 1:10 scale off the shelf. Every boat is a custom one off so worrying about what motor is all encompassing and easy for a the new guy is maybe less necessary. IDK

That Scorpion motor is relatively inexpensive if I remember correctly. Even if you pinned it down to three identical outrunners from three manufacturers there is still the risk that one of them has slightly better this/that/the other like happened with 700 motors.

Just thoughts guys.

[T.S.Davis]

Ray, I didn't think you could buy the old SV27 (blue) 1700kv motor anymore. So that leaves the Himax only doesn't it?

[rayzerdesigns]

Yes Terry they are still available. .aquacraft #7000..tower even has them on sale right now for 49.99

[Doby]

Isn't that what just happened with limited? To a degree? A hiccup in the food chain.

.

Exactly.....so if a hiccup (either real or imagined) occurs at least there is a choice of approved options. Yes, choice is good:hornets_nest:

[DPeterson]

Terry

The cheese heads just made a set of RTR classes and a set of "one motor" classes. You can run the box art motors in both (oh look! choice!) but you will lose against the TP.

Kind of curious on how you came to this conclusion. Our "on water" testing (albeit limited) indicated that this TP motor was very close in performance to the UL1. UL1 showed more straight line speed and the TP showed more torque in the turns. You will never get a perfect match, but you can get close. The only varience I have found to this point is that when the motors are pushed beyond their limits, one will slow and one will burn!

[rayzerdesigns]

Ok..let's not get on the tp conversation. .This is about scale class..and a club trying the scorpion motor. .lol..been enough drama with the "other" class..so much so that I hear certain people aren't coming to winter warmups:(

[ray schrauwen]

There are some very nice outrunners in this size and KV range the go from $20- $120.00. AN outrunner would sound cool in a Turbine 1/10th scale boat.

[ray schrauwen]

Turnigy sells the Suppo design that is very close to a Scorpion in quality at 1/6th the price.


This confirms my suspicion. The outrunner will push more prop/more pitch without getting too whiny.

That Scorpion motor is available from other sources too. I believe Hyperian sells one and I think there is a Turnigy version too.

[Greg Schweers]

Ray, are you sure your 10 scale was running 54 mph with the Scorpion motor? 80% of the LSHs that are out there probably don't run 54 mph. If so, you have basically nuked the Scorpion motor from being approved. This motor will never be approved if it's 6-7 mph faster than the other motors. I'll be doing more testing with my Scorpion. Most gps aren't accurate anyway.

[Fluid]

Turnigy sells the Suppo design that is very close to a Scorpion in quality at 1/6th the price.and you know the quality is because you have comparison tested several samples of each? Hmmmmmm. So you don't get what you pay for? And Scorpion is screwing us by a factor of six? Sorry, I don't buy it, based on Turnigy's quality history.



.

[Fluid]

...Most gps aren't accurate anyway.I cannot speak for "most" but almost a decade of comparing GPS speeds with SAW timing lights has shown me that the three GPSs I used were very close to the lights.



.

[DPeterson]

Ray - Sorry to hear you are experiencing some sort of drama in your club/district.

FYI - Going forward I will continue to make defensive posts when unsubstantiated statements are made concerning what we do in IMPBA D4.

Good luck with your motor dilemmas and Happy Holidays. Doug

[ray schrauwen]

Now, now, I said close... not the same that's for sure. Remember is not really a Turnigy, it's a Suppo. That's all I'm pointing out. The Scorpion is a step up but, not a huge one. I've have both Scopion and Suppo but different winds. kv...
A pair of the lesser 3650 hobbymate $22 motors can push a rivercat to 64mph with little effort. The Suppo is even better quality. Then can be abused a fair bit.

I'd say the Suppo is about equal in quality to any PB or AQ motor in my less than empirical testing, too bad I can't get the 2200kv ones anymore.


and you know the quality is because you have comparison tested several samples of each? Hmmmmmm. So you don't get what you pay for? And Scorpion is screwing us by a factor of six? Sorry, I don't buy it, based on Turnigy's quality history.



.

[T.S.Davis]

Terry


Kind of curious on how you came to this conclusion.

Fair enough. I don't have real world testing. I know I read at least one claim of more speed in a Popeye boat. Einstein I believe.

I have seen the TP construction. I can make an educated prediction. It's a better motor. Much like a scorpion is a better motor than a the old PB 1500. I didn't have to test that to predict what would happen either. Ken was running those years ago. The construction is great.

The TP has 20% more mass than the AQ. They didn't fill the can with fudge. More magnet, heavier wire, something.

We didn't find the sweet spot on a 2030 in a just a handful of runs. If you ran the exact same prop on both motors they should have been nearly exact. You could run the same props on the TP as the 2030's turn but eventually......somebody won't.

[Doby]

Yup...

[rayzerdesigns]

Ray, are you sure your 10 scale was running 54 mph with the Scorpion motor? 80% of the LSHs that are out there probably don't run 54 mph. If so, you have basically nuked the Scorpion motor from being approved. This motor will never be approved if it's 6-7 mph faster than the other motors. I'll be doing more testing with my Scorpion. Most gps aren't accurate anyway.

yes greg..its 5mph faster than any of my namba legal motor for scale..

[rayzerdesigns]

n
Ray - Sorry to hear you are experiencing some sort of drama in your club/district.

FYI - Going forward I will continue to make defensive posts when unsubstantiated statements are made concerning what we do in IMPBA D4.

Good luck with your motor dilemmas and Happy Holidays. Doug
no dilemma doug..mitch,s club is testing them..not for namba approval but for club..i plan on attending some of his races so I bought a motor to test..

[monojeff]

Funny how hard it is to get everyone all on the same page.
Lets just make a choice and get to some racing!!

My experience with these motors:
I have been running the PB motors in my boats now for over 1 yr and they have never given me issues or problem.
They will spin a 450/3 blade that has been cut down some no problem.
The old SV27 blue I burned up in 1 season with a 447/2 blade slightly cupped on my vintage boat which was very fast but obviously pushed this motor to much.
I know that the PB motor and the Himax motor real world testing are basically identical in speed and performance.

At the moment I have I think 5 PB motors and if they were to change the rules and I would have to buy new motors then I most likely would not be able to rave anymore.

Here is how I see things for out boats in percentages:
25% Motor (Speed, Performance)
25% Prop (Speed, Performance)
25% Driver (Reactions, Driving Style)
25% Hull Design (Each Boat is different and has it's own issues and flaws that have to be taken account for not all boats run great in like conditions.

We will never ever be able to compare apples to apples but we can all get similar motors to keep things closer competitively.
We have had people come run with our clubs with other motors and never has it been an issue with competition.
We all blow over at times, we all get bad starts. Drive more consistent and be on the clock = fast boats!
I have seen the slowest boat in the club become one of the fastest in the right drivers hands!

[rayzerdesigns]

Ray - Sorry to hear you are experiencing some sort of drama in your club/district.

FYI - Going forward I will continue to make defensive posts when unsubstantiated statements are made concerning what we do in IMPBA D4.

Good luck with your motor dilemmas and Happy Holidays. Doug
there is no dilemma in our club in Scottsdale..it sucks you aren't coming to race with us in feb..had fun last year meeting you..and racing with you..and yes our club follows namba rules..yes rules state cd can make a judgment call,,which he did..we put it to a vote at our first race in November..it was a unamimous stay with motors that are in namba rule book..happy holidays to you also..on that not merry Christmas to all

[rayzerdesigns]

Funny how hard it is to get everyone all on the same page.
Lets just make a choice and get to some racing!!

My experience with these motors:
I have been running the PB motors in my boats now for over 1 yr and they have never given me issues or problem.
They will spin a 450/3 blade that has been cut down some no problem.
The old SV27 blue I burned up in 1 season with a 447/2 blade slightly cupped on my vintage boat which was very fast but obviously pushed this motor to much.
I know that the PB motor and the Himax motor real world testing are basically identical in speed and performance.

At the moment I have I think 5 PB motors and if they were to change the rules and I would have to buy new motors then I most likely would not be able to rave anymore.

Here is how I see things for out boats in percentages:
25% Motor (Speed, Performance)
25% Prop (Speed, Performance)
25% Driver (Reactions, Driving Style)
25% Hull Design (Each Boat is different and has it's own issues and flaws that have to be taken account for not all boats run great in like conditions.

We will never ever be able to compare apples to apples but we can all get similar motors to keep things closer competitively.
We have had people come run with our clubs with other motors and never has it been an issue with competition.
We all blow over at times, we all get bad starts. Drive more consistent and be on the clock = fast boats!
I have seen the slowest boat in the club become one of the fastest in the right drivers hands!
amen!!!

[Coug90]

Wow, a lot has happened since I lost track of the thread temporarily. Thanks for everyone weighing in. I too believe the best we can do is to try and find motors that are close to include in this class. Outrunners and their qualities vs inrunners is still a bit of a new thing in boats. More testing is ahead, but right now it it looks like my concerns were warranted and I've learned a lot with your help. It appears that maybe an outrunner with a much higher wattage rating and similar kv rating and size is too much of a difference in performance. I would need to test this, but I suspect that the Scorpion HK3226 1400 kv version would be a better fit when compared to the available NAMBA legal motors today. I've also got my eye on the very affordable Leopard 3650 (1650 kv version) as something to consider in the future. The industry is just so unpredictable with the RTR offerings. I don't see the harm in doing our homework and seeing if we can stay a little ahead of the game if we can. 1:10 scale is steadily growing with clubs and individuals running them all over the world. Sure, you'll get the lion's share out west and in the Detroit area and where the real boats have been popular, but I get emails from all over. It surprised me. These kind of discussions really help, even if we ruffle a few feathers here and there. I'm always interested in different opinion and this has been huge for info gathering. Thanks guys. I'm hoping that in the future it will be easier to identify motor options using some of the manufacturer's specs as a place to start. Knowing how to look at the numbers at the same time you look at inrunners vs outrunners of comparable size is challenging, but I think it's well worth it. I'd hate to leave them out as options.

[siberianhusky]

Nothing... damn internet won't let me delete this, I have nothing to add to this conversation, sorry! Don't race these boats so my opinion doesn't count for squat!

[rayzerdesigns]

Mitch you should try and make winter warmups in Feb

[DPeterson]

Ray

we put it to a vote at our first race in November..it was a unamimous stay with motors that are in namba rule book

Lets see how this shook out. WW has 4 less participants. Each would be participant saved $1,500 in travel costs. We both lost the oppurtunity to run 4 TP guy's against 12-15 AQ 2030 guy's. Could have really put this entire debate to rest in one fun filled weekend. This race was never about records or notority from winning. Now its about a rule book?

As President of our Badger Model Boaters Club and IMPBA D4 FE Director I can assure you or anyone else that our club will keep the door open for anyone to run any boat. We'll find a class to run it in. It's a Hobby!

Cheers - Doug

[Doby]

As President of our Badger Model Boaters Club and IMPBA D4 FE Director

:blink: You iz an impotent guy :lol::blink:

[rayzerdesigns]

:blink: You iz an impotent guy :lol::blink:

lol

[DPeterson]

Thanks Doby. LOL

Just want to let you know specifically that I have the authority to even allow Canadians with their funny looking boats to run a few heats. :smile:

Doug

[Doby]

Then we will continue to get along...(more or less):hug1:

[leonard feeback]

The people just wanting speed probably aren't scale boaters anyway. Maybe they should try to get the proper set up to make the boat perform well instead of just using horsepower. Darin is correct racing is racing at any speed.

[T.S.Davis]

Maybe they should try to get the proper set up to make the boat perform well instead of just using horsepower.

That's the spirit. This is my favorite repeating theme.

We've heard this exact argument on 4 occasions now over the course of about 10 years.

The first time was when brushless motors hit the market. The brushed guys said "brushless motors are a substitute for skill". Whattttt everrrrr.

Then it popped up again when Lithium polymere hit the market. "If you worked on your setup you wouldn't need LiPo" Those guys also said we were all going to die in LiPo fires. Oh and that LiPo would spell the end of racing. A little over the top.

N1 guys have been using this for every tech change since I've been racing. "You don't like N1 because you can't do it". I don't do N1 because even watching them bores me to tears. Even at the nationals where guys are supposed to be top shelf. Snore.

The latest was the fluctuation in the limited motors. "You're having failures because you're not working your setups" Ah, the old stand by. Lack of ability and/or effort.

Yes, racing is racing at any speed. Unless...............that speed inspires too few to participate. Then nobody is racing.

[DPeterson]

Geez Terry

Some days you really tick me off. Then there are times I would like to plant a big kiss on that bald head of yours. Like right now after that last post. :wub:

Doug

[T.S.Davis]

Haha. Doug, all my friends go through that with me. Ask Fred about it some time. He's always on the edge of punching me in the head.

On the WW thing. You kinda did it backwards. If you had contacted them and said......"hey, let's put together a collection of motors and see if we can do anything smarter/different/better". Count the points, don't count the points, whatever, just to see if we're wasting our time. Throw in some SSS motors, maybe a Leopard or two, a Scorpion. Could even have done it one experimental class and called it "test of offshore lap systems" or "TOOLS" for short . That would have gone over I'll bet. Instead, you chose a motor, got relatively little test time on it, and wanted them to just accept it or your not playing.

See there ya go......now you can be pissed at me again. LOL

I do know that Tom is taking some SSS motors of various configurations with him to WW with hopes of just getting them in the water. Not to race in the classes. Just to turn some laps and see if there's any point in pursuing them further. The first motor we had hopes for, couldn't get it done. We were too conservative. The new batch should be closer.

[Darin Jordan]

Terry, you are getting too jaded...

Are you really trying to argue that setup isn't the reason why Brian runs away with P-LTD Hydro, for example? Really??

You think that I ran a 1:28.xx heat time in P-LTD OPC because of some other advantage? REALLY??

Do you REALLY believe that my Raptor Hydro, which isn't slow, can run a full heat race and not get over 110-degrees, turning an ABC 18-series prop, by some OTHER advantage other than setup? REALLY??

One thing I've learned in my limited travels is that people put WAY too much emphasis on "better batteries", or "more KV", etc... When if they'd learn to drive in lane one, make fewer driving errors, and actually spend some time tweaking, rather than throwing different props at it, they'd make much larger strides.

Not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand, but felt like typing a knee-jerk reaction... :) :beerchug: :hug1:

[DPeterson]

Oh Terry

Can I take back that kiss? LOL

On the WW thing you are way wrong on how it went. Kind of how most things go in NAMBA - decisions based on assumptions. But I am not going to elaborate here.

You all have a good set of Happy Holidays now!

Doug

[T.S.Davis]

Had to go back and read it to see if I said that. I didn't. You only keyed in on one of them. You're comment could be applied to all kinds of stuff.

"When if they'd learn to drive in lane one, make fewer driving errors, and actually spend some time tweaking, rather than throwing different props at it, they'd make much larger strides"

This one is the classic. Try that sentence and replace "different props" with the following:

Lithium Polymer
Brushless motors
Oh! I forgot "Nimh" That was the same argument then too.
Chameleons (for N1)
Brushless again (for N1)
throw HV cells in there too. That's the next one that will fit.
The SS1 fit in there
stepped hulls (in offshore)
self righting (that one is true IMO)

Absolutely, the tweaker gets faster. Setup is king. That hasn't changed ever. However, if a tweaker builds two identical boats or if he swaps out two motors that are supposed to be identical and one fries then maybe it's not the tweaker. For those that already have the "you're already too close to the edge" in the chamber, save it. We're always at the edge. It's racing. Now if the edge moves.............and you're over............... on a spec motor that equates to buying another motor. Well it did for some.

This is what Doug mentioned earlier. Step past the edge on his TP and the boat is slow. Step over on a 2030 and frishizzle. At least for a little bit that seemed to be the case. I do have some of the earlier motors and they were running very well up until the water became a solid. I've got my fingers crossed on the updated versions.

I think this is why some of us get so worked up about it. I received a PM from a former LSH National champion, not just me, not just some hack, asking me "Are they really saying that we're having problems because we don't know what we're doing?" The condescension pisses people off. It wouldn't shock me at all if that condescension was what pushed D4 forward with the TP motors.

[T.S.Davis]

On the WW thing you are way wrong on how it went. Kind of how most things go in NAMBA - decisions based on assumptions. But I am not going to elaborate here.


Fair enough sir. I was no fly on that wall. I hope we can find some excuse to get together this summer. I so enjoy hanging out and racing with you guys. What about the Can Am? We'll talk.

[Darin Jordan]

Step past the edge on his TP and the boat is slow. Step over on a 2030 and frishizzle. At least for a little bit that seemed to be the case.

Terry, and Doug, I suppose...

The TP is an electric motor... When you find the REAL "step over" point, it's going to "frishizzle" as well.

In the meantime, at least in the context of a "mulitple-Motor allowance" "Limited/Spec" class, you've just defined a new "class of the field", "gotta have one to win", power system. Once everyone realizes that, they'll all get them (look at all those just jumping on board already... as if a different motor is going to fix all their setup issues... :tt2:), then everyone will be pushing them beyond what they were designed for (just like we are doing now with the current motors), and then they will start having "reliability" issues, and then the "frishizzling" will begin again, as will the bitching about motor quality.

Then we can start this all over again...

Gotta love Racing 101...

Of course, if you are defining a 1-Motor class... it's all good. :tiphat:

[T.S.Davis]

Yes Darin. I understand. If we find that edge we wont step over it..................unless it moves.

[rayzerdesigns]

Terry, and Doug, I suppose...

The TP is an electric motor... When you find the REAL "step over" point, it's going to "frishizzle" as well.

In the meantime, at least in the context of a "mulitple-Motor allowance" "Limited/Spec" class, you've just defined a new "class of the field", "gotta have one to win", power system. Once everyone realizes that, they'll all get them (look at all those just jumping on board already... as if a different motor is going to fix all their setup issues... :tt2:), then everyone will be pushing them beyond what they were designed for (just like we are doing now with the current motors), and then they will start having "reliability" issues, and then the "frishizzling" will begin again, as will the bitching about motor quality.

Then we can start this all over again...

Gotta love Racing 101...

Of course, if you are defining a 1-Motor class... it's all good. :tiphat:

Darrin, this might be the best response ever..period!!

[rayzerdesigns]

btw..club race this weekend here in chilly az..I will try to get some video, I have really come to terms with the proboat(dynamite)1500..plus cant complain with a motor that is in the 40 to 70 dollar range..i have thrown numerous props and setups and timing..it keeps going..so much so that I bought 4 of them just in case

[Coug90]

Terry, and Doug, I suppose...

The TP is an electric motor... When you find the REAL "step over" point, it's going to "frishizzle" as well.

In the meantime, at least in the context of a "mulitple-Motor allowance" "Limited/Spec" class, you've just defined a new "class of the field", "gotta have one to win", power system. Once everyone realizes that, they'll all get them (look at all those just jumping on board already... as if a different motor is going to fix all their setup issues... :tt2:), then everyone will be pushing them beyond what they were designed for (just like we are doing now with the current motors), and then they will start having "reliability" issues, and then the "frishizzling" will begin again, as will the bitching about motor quality.

Then we can start this all over again...

Gotta love Racing 101...

Of course, if you are defining a 1-Motor class... it's all good. :tiphat:

You guys are really lighting it up on this thread. I suspect there is some history between some of you. It just proves that we love it enough to care I guess. My goal is not to to worry about how fast the boats go. For a good class like this, I think you have to be as careful as you can not to put a motor in there that has an inherent advantage over the others. If we can do our homework, I think we can do that and give more options for NAMBA rules racing. I can't think of any more fun racing than what I've experienced in 1:10 scale over the years, but it's obviously not for everyone. I'm with Darin and believe that setup and the small adjustments that come with learning your boat are what has been what's made the difference for me. I call it "finesse" racing vs "power" racing. It's more about philosophy than anything else and we all fall somewhere along the range between the two. I think that's part of the fun. We all know guys who constantly melt stuff down, regardless of what motor they run because it's never fast enough, especially in spec classes. I think it's a challenge against human nature maybe. You could argue about it forever.

To change tracks a little and get more info from you guys, could any of you tell me of an effective way to bench test motors under load and compare them? Have any of you ever done that. We did it before, but I don't know how it was all set up. Is there a fairly affordable way to do this. What would you measure when comparing motors on the bench. Maybe there's a thread or web page you can refer me to? So far, all that I've been able to do this time is test in the boats and compare speeds with the different setups and props and monitor temps. Have you guys done anything different to compare motors. I know on the bench we used airplane props as a load and a power supply to give a consistent power to the motors. What is the biggest telling factor to look for in comparing for similar motor performance under load? You guys have been great, so please keep sharing the knowledge, thanks.

[Coug90]

Yes, racing is racing at any speed. Unless...............that speed inspires too few to participate. Then nobody is racing.

I don't know where you race, but from what I can see here and from what I hear from folks around the country, 1:10 scale is a fast growing class. Guys out here could run anything they want, but they choose to run 1:10 scales in great numbers. This class in NAMBA has only been around a short time, but I see them running in several other states and growing in popularity. Is that not accurate? I wouldn't measure top shelf just by who shows up at nationals. I think a lot of really top notch racers can't always make the trip to nationals. It's not as though you have to earn your way in order to compete there each year. I think you get most of your great racing in the scale boats on the local level for sure, at least that has been my experience. I've never raced at nationals, but I can tell you that when it comes to 1:10 scale, we have some pretty stiff competition out west. Some day nationals will be up here again and you will see a huge 1:10 scale turnout for that one. I'd love to be a part of that again. :w00t:

[jimmejames]

For those unaware of the speed and excitement in 1/10 scale racing out here in Washington, check out this video of the 2014 Roger Newton Memorial.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhd0vGwD-uQ

These are running NAMBA legal motors, mostly the Himax 3630 1500kV.

[Doby]

they do look fun!

[monojeff]

For those unaware of the speed and excitement in 1/10 scale racing out here in Washington, check out this video of the 2014 Roger Newton Memorial.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhd0vGwD-uQ

These are running NAMBA legal motors, mostly the Himax 3630 1500kV.
Looks like some great weather to be racing in.
I must bring wind and rain or something when I go racing.
Great video look forward to next season hopefully making a few more races!!

[monojeff]

I don't know where you race, but from what I can see here and from what I hear from folks around the country, 1:10 scale is a fast growing class. Guys out here could run anything they want, but they choose to run 1:10 scales in great numbers. This class in NAMBA has only been around a short time, but I see them running in several other states and growing in popularity. Is that not accurate? I wouldn't measure top shelf just by who shows up at nationals. I think a lot of really top notch racers can't always make the trip to nationals. It's not as though you have to earn your way in order to compete there each year. I think you get most of your great racing in the scale boats on the local level for sure, at least that has been my experience. I've never raced at nationals, but I can tell you that when it comes to 1:10 scale, we have some pretty stiff competition out west. Some day nationals will be up here again and you will see a huge 1:10 scale turnout for that one. I'd love to be a part of that again. :w00t:

Count me and my soon to be 3rd boat in if that happens Mitch!
Maybe we should just work on setting up an "official" Namba Scale Nationals event up here or something in the next year or two!

[TheShaughnessy]

For those unaware of the speed and excitement in 1/10 scale racing out here in Washington, check out this video of the 2014 Roger Newton Memorial.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhd0vGwD-uQ

These are running NAMBA legal motors, mostly the Himax 3630 1500kV.

What size was that course? Seemed like a captivating speed, couple of boats looked pretty damn loose a couple times

[T.S.Davis]

I can not explain the sudden interest in scale here in MI. We've had guys saying they were going to do some scales for years. They never showed up. A few sure but never enough to make them go. We even had them on our club points list. Still a bust.

We'll see next season if we can turn some heats.

[T.S.Davis]

I wouldn't measure top shelf just by who shows up at nationals. I think a lot of really top notch racers can't always make the trip to nationals.

That's absolutely true. Traveling to any race can be dough intensive. Especially a 4 or 5 day gig. However, I can't discount the achievements of those that win national championships based on location. That's like saying "yeah, you won but you didn't race our guys so it doesn't count". That's not fair. Our club is typically pretty strong where LSH is concerned. An LSH championship on the east or west coast doesn't mean less because our guys weren't there.

I'll dig into my old files. I am curious how long our club (MMEU) has been toying with the scale idea and been unable to execute. haha I suppose we still haven't. It's all talk :blah::blah::blah: until the boats hit the water.

Sorry Mitch. We murdered your thread.

[ron1950]

one everyone sees those gorgeous 10th scales on the water they will want one...they are not the fastest but very competive...I know I love to see them slide around a corner and try to stay upright hopping and skipping over wakes...

[Todd Fleury]

It will be great to have a bunch of 1/10 scales hit the water in MI this year. Terry, I think the two motors that are available, should be fine for this season. If we wish to address this issue at a later date, that would be great. But let us just get the class going.

[T.S.Davis]

Your probably right. Plus that way when we get our butts to another nats we'll be prepared. Like if we host again.......in 2025 or so.

[rayzerdesigns]

well..trying to upload a short clip..but cant figure it out..just a start clip..but boat is running great

[Coug90]

That's absolutely true. Traveling to any race can be dough intensive. Especially a 4 or 5 day gig. However, I can't discount the achievements of those that win national championships based on location. That's like saying "yeah, you won but you didn't race our guys so it doesn't count". That's not fair. Our club is typically pretty strong where LSH is concerned. An LSH championship on the east or west coast doesn't mean less because our guys weren't there.

I'll dig into my old files. I am curious how long our club (MMEU) has been toying with the scale idea and been unable to execute. haha I suppose we still haven't. It's all talk :blah::blah::blah: until the boats hit the water.

Sorry Mitch. We murdered your thread.

The guys who win at nationals did it because they earned it, just like any winner of any race. I would never discount anybody's win either. That goes without saying and that's why I didn't say it originally. I'm not here to start trouble. No worries about the thread getting murdered. Before you guys all got into the chat, it was on life support. They get a little off track sometimes though and it's hard to bring them back. I guess you could start a new thread for a different subject you want to get into. No problem here though.

[rayzerdesigns]

http://youtu.be/6Y-ejfKPL9o

[ray schrauwen]

Is there more footage? I was distracted from watching a lot of races at the Nats and liked the shade better.

I ask for more because they look pretty quick. Not freaky fast like some LSH boats but, I like it.

When I was looking at Mike S. 1/8th scale build thread they are using some massive motors and esc's. I then look at 1/10th scale and the motors used and I scratch my head but, heck, I know so little about 1/10th scale and it's roots at this time. You guys put so much time, money and work into these boats that I question why such a minor motor?

I guess if the speed is too fast and you flip one it could destroy itself or more speed = more race carnage. I do like scale but, I'm so green with it. More reading....

If I build a 1/10 scale I'll ditch LSH as there is always P-Sport hydro.

[rayzerdesigns]

ray I will try and get someone to video next race on the 25th..or 18th..i have had my boat to 51mph..with spec motor..still working on it..its really sensitive to wing angle

[ray schrauwen]

Cool. That's another variable, moving wings.

[ron1950]

while we are talking 10th scales I love to run my vintage....2 vintage hydros with different props in this vid http://youtu.be/7BAfymCvji4 we probably have a ways to go to be up with the west coast guys but fun just the same

[ray schrauwen]

I might actually have a 1/10 scale round nose woody in the closet... I'll post pics. I think it's an Osbourne kit about 34" long.

[monojeff]

Most boats are in the 40-45mph range.
The faster boats are in the 45-50 range.
It took me a solid season of testing and tweaking to get in the 45-50 mph Zone with my vintage boat.
Still have some adjustments to make it more consistent but that's because I push it to the limits.
This is with spec motors on 4s

[Coug90]

I don't know how most guys measure speeds in their models, but some guys have told me that they get some strange readings from their data loggers sometimes during testing. How do most people measure the speeds? I have only used a gps device I put inside the boat and it seems pretty reasonable in measuring top speed. One guy told me that the data logger he has would show spikes of 70 mph and he doesn't know why. He thinks it might be the boat movement going into corners and giving a false reading somehow. Those things are beyond my intelligence right now, but they sound like you can get some pretty useful info from them if you know what you're looking for. I've always found that handling and getting in and out of the corners quickly in race water conditions is more important than top speed in testing, but it can be a guage as to how the boat reacts to changes you make. Besides, it's fun to compare with other people's findings and builds drama leading up to race day when you find out if all the hype equates to what you think will happen on race day.

[monojeff]

I'll be data logging with eagle tree during testing and heat racing this season.
Won't be looking at top speed but will be looking at amp draw and rpms.

I used gps multiple times in my boat and consistently got similar readings ranging within 1-2mph most times for max speed. I find that gps is not always accurate if the course is a bit short as it changes so quickly and unless had a perfect signal a lot of times gps could be off a bit.

[Ronbo]

I think looking at max amps, watts, can size and KV will determine what motors will be comparable and then testing them extensively. Also, a short course may have them equal, but what about bigger courses and a variety of props? Ive gone up in props with my Himax, and my luck with the proboat has it relegated to spare to the spare...

Im curious of real course testing with eagle tree or equivalent.

[rayzerdesigns]

I think looking at max amps, watts, can size and KV will determine what motors will be comparable and then testing them extensively. Also, a short course may have them equal, but what about bigger courses and a variety of props? Ive gone up in props with my Himax, and my luck with the proboat has it relegated to spare to the spare...

Im curious of real course testing with eagle tree or equivalent.

ron have you tried the new proboat/dynamite motor??

[Ronbo]

I have not, tho I wanted to when I bought the older grey can from hobby shop. Ive heard good things, maybe they have the same QC as Himax now. Also heard proboat/dynamite stopped making the new blue motor?

[ron1950]

I have run the new dynamite motor in my vintage with just a 45mm prop and had great results..there is a vid of my boat outrunning another same hull vintage running the pb1500 but he is only running a 42mm prop...http://youtu.be/7BAfymCvji4
really like the new motor will try bigger props in the spring as I am back in Arkansas now and it 15 degrees yuk..btw the motor is cool to the touch with 45mm prop going for 48 and 50 next

[Ronbo]

I have run the new dynamite motor in my vintage with just a 45mm prop and had great results..there is a vid of my boat outrunning another same hull vintage running the pb1500 but he is only running a 42mm prop...
really like the new motor

I wouldn't be able to get my miss Madison on plane with a small 42mm prop...and my boat is 6lbs RTR.

[monojeff]

I have new and old versions of PB 1500 motors and will post log info soon as I have it.
I will do back to back testing with no adjustments or changes.

[rayzerdesigns]

I will try and get some video this weekend testing..trying a couple new props

[rayzerdesigns]

Tucson this weekend..will get video if we have a couple to race..if not..will get some laps of just me

[ron1950]

Outstanding ray. Love to watch 10 th scales.