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View Full Version : Dual Powerlab 8 vs Icharger 4010 Duo



kevinpratt823
09-08-2014, 05:35 PM
Trying to decide between the 2, any input.....?

http://www.buddyrc.com/dual-power-lab-8-2688w-battery-charger.html

http://www.buddyrc.com/icharger-4010-duo.html

Brushless55
09-08-2014, 05:41 PM
like to know what others think on this one as well

785boats
09-08-2014, 06:03 PM
They are pretty much equal. But if you can find out which one has the highest balancing voltage, I would lean towards that one. The higher the balancing voltage the better it deals with those stubborn cells that take forever to get up to 4.2 in the last part of the charge. But even with all the cells in good condition the overall charge is shorter.
I don't have either of them BTW.

Also with the new HV cells coming out, can either of them have the termination voltage increased to match them, if you are considering using those cells?

kevinpratt823
09-08-2014, 06:25 PM
They are pretty much equal. But if you can find out which one has the highest balancing voltage, I would lean towards that one. The higher the balancing voltage the better it deals with those stubborn cells that take forever to get up to 4.2 in the last part of the charge. But even with all the cells in good condition the overall charge is shorter.
I don't have either of them BTW.

Also with the new HV cells coming out, can either of them have the termination voltage increased to match them, if you are considering using those cells?
One plus of the Icharger is 1.2a balance current, vs. 1 amp on the pl8.........I hadn't even thought of the HV cells, definitely will take that into consideration.

There is also a couple benefits to running 2 seperate pl8's(the cases interlock).......
Overall, more power potential from the PL8, better balance current and discharge from the Icharger. The Dual PL8 takes 2 seperate power inputs 40amps each, up to 48v, but needs 39v to get the full 1344W, 2 single pl8's get max output with 26V, Icharger gets Max of 1400W/channel, but only 2000w total, but at 24v(max 50v)......I've read about more failures with the Icharger so far, none with PL8....Display is cool on Icharger, but PL8 seems pretty simple.
Oh, the Icharger actually has a built in servo tester!........

Here is a bit of discussion I foundhttp://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t763879p1/

I was about to pull the trigger on the Icharger, then I came across the dual PL8, I'll have to get into a bit more research tomorrow, on my way out....

Luck as a Constant
09-08-2014, 06:27 PM
i don't own a dual power, but i do have an icharger (not that model), but i will say its a good quality charger if that helps at all.

Luck as a Constant
09-08-2014, 06:30 PM
one disadvantage to the icharger, it looks, as if you need a really good power supply and not just a bunch of server supplied in series (which would be me lol) to run the needed power. but I'm sure for you, kevin, that aint gonna be an issue. i think i remember you were pretty handy with that sort of stuff

NativePaul
09-09-2014, 05:31 AM
A single (or separate pair of) PL8 can charge each cell individually via the balance leads at up to 3A, so has a 3A balance current at low charge rates. They call this node charging and if it is something you are interested in, note that the dual PL8 can't do it.

PL8 is made by the same company that is distributing the HV LiPos and as such are the recommended chargers for them. I am pretty sure the Icharger has an adjustable charge voltage too, but I don't know how high it goes, my fusion is adjustable but only goes as far as 4.25v/cell (the maximum charge voltage for normal LiPos)

kevinpratt823
09-09-2014, 05:54 AM
Thanks Paul. I knew only the pl8 did node charging, but it hadn't occurred to me that it could give a faster balance rate if wanted......not sure the extra cost of buying two separate pl8's would justify that feature for me though.

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jcald2000
09-09-2014, 07:45 AM
Don't get too hung up on the " High Voltage cells ". I did a series of tests when I first got my Power Lab a few years ago with my Eagletree system. I cycled New Dinogy batteries 5 times and made 5 moderate power runs for break in then charged to 4.15 per cell and logged 2 runs, then charged to 4.20 and made 2 runs with the batteries at 100 degrees F for all runs when I put them in the boat.
The results, after 150 feet the batteries were at the same voltage!
I have been charging at 4.18 ever since!

kevinpratt823
09-09-2014, 09:03 AM
It's likely most chargers will have software updates for hv cells anyway.

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kevinpratt823
09-09-2014, 04:19 PM
Just pulled the trigger on a Dual Powerlab 8. Sounds like it is a touch more bulletproof with a few more safety features. Who knows, maybe at some point I'll end up with a Icharger 4010duo also to see which I like better......I am up to 67 lipos and counting, and I don't charge at the pond. 1-1/2 at the pond and I have a milk crate full of about 30 packs to charge, may as well be invested in good equip to get the most out of what I do.

meangenesracing
09-09-2014, 04:37 PM
67 lipos, WOW how do you find time to charge, store charge, ect.?

785boats
09-09-2014, 05:14 PM
Sorry kevin.
In my first post, I did mean to say highest balancing "current", not voltage.
But I was referring to some of the chargers that only have a max of 200 or 300ma balancing current.
I'm sure you'll be glad you went with the Powerlab.
If Revolectrix bring out the 4.4 & 4.6V cells there will also be a firmware upgrade released unless they've already installed it up to those values in the newer chargers.

kevinpratt823
09-09-2014, 05:23 PM
785boats, I didn't even pick up on the mistake lol. I knew what you meant as it was one of the first things I looked at.....Here's a pic of prepping for a weekend, boats in the morning, cars in the afternoon:)

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kevinpratt823
09-09-2014, 06:22 PM
67 lipos, WOW how do you find time to charge, store charge, ect.?
I used to start charging as soon as I got back from the pond, and charge through the week etc so I could run a few after work, but my packs sat charged for too long at times. I find that after running my boat packs are usually at least 3.6v, which is a fine storage IMO. I really only store charge the boat packs for the winter, cars run indoors all winter). The whole idea of getting a high power charger was so I could parallel charge for example (2) sets of (4) packs at a time at 40 amps per set, to get 8 packs charged in hopefully 30 min or so, and be able to charge all or most of my packs during the morning prep work(I get up early).

Jdpb614
09-10-2014, 09:46 AM
The server supplies 2zo-rc can be used in series. If you check out this article you can see how many packs an I charger can do in on shot with correct power.

http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-power-supply.html

kevinpratt823
09-10-2014, 04:08 PM
The server supplies 2zo-rc can be used in series. If you check out this article you can see how many packs an I charger can do in on shot with correct power.

http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-power-supply.html
I have actually been running a pair of those in series for over a year to power my current Hyperion charger, I already ordered another pair to set up in series. Each pair will run one side of the PL8x2 at 24v/47amps/1150Watts, and if I went with the Icharger 4010duo I would have just put all 4 in series for 48v/47amp/2300Watts. I get them on Ebay, this last pair was $32 for both, can't beat it. There are a few other models that work well also, but I already know how to mod/configure these ones so I stuck with the same.

kevinpratt823
09-13-2014, 08:37 PM
Off and running. Just charged (8) 5s packs from 3.7v/cell up to 4.2 in under 24 minutes! I'll post up a more detailed thread when I have time, but this thing is badass! :) I just need to build up a safer charge area now.

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MarkF
09-22-2014, 10:45 PM
Kevin

You picked the right charger. If you talk to the company's who sell both chargers they will tell you the i chargers have a higher failure rate.

Mark

Brushless55
09-22-2014, 11:03 PM
Sorry kevin.
In my first post, I did mean to say highest balancing "current", not voltage.
But I was referring to some of the chargers that only have a max of 200 or 300ma balancing current.
I'm sure you'll be glad you went with the Powerlab.
If Revolectrix bring out the 4.4 & 4.6V cells there will also be a firmware upgrade released unless they've already installed it up to those values in the newer chargers.

Do we know when these new Revo packs are coming out??
I need to get me a new charger for these HV packs that are out today

785boats
09-22-2014, 11:31 PM
I'm not sure. You would have to ask John at Revolectrix. All I know is that he was working on them. Might be a year or so.

kevinpratt823
09-23-2014, 04:43 AM
Kevin

You picked the right charger. If you talk to the company's who sell both chargers they will tell you the i chargers have a higher failure rate.

Mark

I actually did just that, and that is exactly what I was told. Thanks Mark.

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dasboata
01-12-2017, 08:57 AM
Off and running. Just charged (8) 5s packs from 3.7v/cell up to 4.2 in under 24 minutes! I'll post up a more detailed thread when I have time, but this thing is badass! :) I just need to build up a safer charge area now.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Hi Kevin are you really charging 8 pack there how do you keep track of the balancing on them ? thanks Chris

kevinpratt823
01-12-2017, 09:19 AM
Hi Kevin are you really charging 8 pack there how do you keep track of the balancing on them ? thanks Chrisparallel balance harness on each set of 4.

T.S.Davis
01-12-2017, 09:29 AM
Hi Kevin are you really charging 8 pack there how do you keep track of the balancing on them ? thanks Chris

Yeah me too. How's that work? Not questioning. Wanting to learn something. Your not the only one I've seen doing this.

Note on the iCharger.
My duo will balance two packs obviously. One of the gillion options on this thing is "regenerative discharge". If one cell is slightly high it discharges it a bit. With regenerative discharge on it pumps voltage back to the source. Sort of saving juice if you follow. So if charging form a battery it pumps power back into your car battery. Pretty slick.

You're supposed to turn it off if you are using a power supply as the voltage feed back to the supply will climb. Unfortunately, even though it's turned off, it still back feeds to the power supply until your power supply overvolts and shuts off or self destructs. I lost 4 power supplies before I figured out what it was doing. It's a horrible design flaw. My bulldogs will just reset themselves but charging stops as the charger shuts off and reboots. The computer type power supplies that are popular lately that go 75 amps don't have overvolt protection. They just die.

roofintrash
01-12-2017, 09:32 AM
Hi Kevin are you really charging 8 pack there how do you keep track of the balancing on them ? thanks Chris

Thank you for asking the question that has made my bald spot bigger.

T.S.Davis
01-12-2017, 09:47 AM
parallel balance harness on each set of 4.

I'm still confused by this.

So the charger is monitoring voltage for 4 cells for each one cell that it thinks it's monitoring. You could have one cell low and one high cell in the paralleled set but voltage reads to the charger like everything is golden.

Does this make anyone else's head hurt?

roofintrash
01-12-2017, 10:03 AM
I'm still confused by this.

So the charger is monitoring voltage for 4 cells for each one cell that it thinks it's monitoring. You could have one cell low and one high cell in the paralleled set but voltage reads to the charger like everything is golden.

Does this make anyone else's head hurt?

That's exactly what I was thinking. How does it know which cell in which pack is low or high.

T.S.Davis
01-12-2017, 10:09 AM
That's exactly what I was thinking. How does it know which cell in which pack is low or high.

I want to know this too. I know others are using this approach to charging so if someone knows how this works please share. I'm ignorant and want to understand it.

kfxguy
01-12-2017, 11:15 AM
Yeah me too. How's that work? Not questioning. Wanting to learn something. Your not the only one I've seen doing this.

Note on the iCharger.
My duo will balance two packs obviously. One of the gillion options on this thing is "regenerative discharge". If one cell is slightly high it discharges it a bit. With regenerative discharge on it pumps voltage back to the source. Sort of saving juice if you follow. So if charging form a battery it pumps power back into your car battery. Pretty slick.

You're supposed to turn it off if you are using a power supply as the voltage feed back to the supply will climb. Unfortunately, even though it's turned off, it still back feeds to the power supply until your power supply overvolts and shuts off or self destructs. I lost 4 power supplies before I figured out what it was doing. It's a horrible design flaw. My bulldogs will just reset themselves but charging stops as the charger shuts off and reboots. The computer type power supplies that are popular lately that go 75 amps don't have overvolt protection. They just die.



Ahhhhh. This is why my power supplies were failing when using ichargers. When I switched to powerlab I didn't have any more issues.

T.S.Davis
01-12-2017, 11:21 AM
Only happens when you balance across packs. I Just charge everything as a single now and the problem goes away but holy crap was that an expensive learn.

kevinpratt823
01-12-2017, 11:30 AM
Either way, in parallel the voltage is the same across all 4 cells while connected. If the packs are in decent shape, all goes smoothly, if one cell is bad, that whole set of 4 will take a long time to get up to voltage if at all because that cell is holding all 4 back, and you know there is a problem. This is why I also charge all individually on occaisions so I can see what packs are still ok for me to charge in parallel. I do not discuss parallel charging much, because there is a lot of room for error and I don't want to see anybody else have issues, that being said I have been doing it for several years and with a little awareness and due diligence I have never had issue. I don't run boats anymore really, but I now charge (6) 4s/1500mah on each side all year for fpv racing, when something is out of whack, the balancing process takes a little longer. I identify the pack causing it and remove it from this type of service.

dasboata
01-12-2017, 11:54 AM
parallel balance harness on each set of 4.

And how does the charger recognize each pack or it doesn't and just maintains the correct voltage per cell ?

kevinpratt823
01-12-2017, 12:10 PM
It does not recognize them individually, it brings them all up together, hence some precaution and awareness need be taken. Its the same concept as connecting packs in paralell in a boat, if one pack fails it will take the other down too. Sorry guys , too much going on to get into this now.

MarkF
01-12-2017, 01:21 PM
It doesn't see the other cells and thats why parallel charging is dangerous. Most have been lucky up to now but a parallel board can't monitor all the cells it's plugged into. If you get a bad cell the other packs will hide it. Most guy's I see are using it for their 1s packs or 1300 quad packs but they can all fail, so parallel boards are not recommended. If you know all the packs are good and no cells are off then parallel boards work. But only then.

Mark

T.S.Davis
01-12-2017, 01:39 PM
I'm feeling better about my pile of chargers now. Thanks Mark.