Anyone else think swordfish

[Engelkefarm]

Swordfish 200a swelling batts and running hot. Leopard4084 x445 2 3s packs. My seaking 180 never did this. Anyone having same issue. Boat is a genesis

[kfxguy]

what batteries are you using? I dont exactly care for sf esc's but there not a whole lot of affordable choices out there. seems lately they are hit and miss.

[kevinpratt823]

FYI, when your batteries puff, it is usually because you drained them down too far, and it doesn't typically puff until a few cycles later. The damage to the batteries likely happened well before they started showing it. I really doubt it's the ESC causing it, you most likely ran them a bit too long a few runs before, and this set of packs is probably past the point of no return. A pair of 3s/5000mah packs is working pretty hard to supply a 1600kv 4082, you prob wouldn't get much more than 3 min without running them too low. I have a couple SF ESC's, some I have had a few problems with, some have been great all along. When I did have problems, the owner of OSE was very helpful, but I have also sent them in directly so as not to bother him.
Considering that you just dragged up(spammed) 3 other threads in less than 10 min to post that SF ESC's "are crap" and complaining that the owner of OSE won't help you, then started this thread to say the same, when it is perfectly likely the ESC didn't cause the problem in the first place, I wouldn't blame anyone for not jumping to help you anyway. In the few years I've been doing this, and the several years of threads I have read through, I have not come across on incident where an ESC caused batteries to puff. Once in a great while it's a quality issue/bad cell, but prob 95% of the time it's because they were run too hard for too long.

[ray schrauwen]

I was able to get a 3rd place in Q-Sport Hydro running this esc in the 1st 2 heats. The second 2 heats I switched out to a SF240 that could take the heat better.

[Rocstar]

Before bashing Swordfish in every thread, maybe get to the bottom of your problem. It sounds like your having other issues.

A few fast boats with Swordfish controllers...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8V81KyhVkA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBUAye2BAr4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5awbTx6og7Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk9wFhv8sDw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpZI97iCDO0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSMTaXElV4o

[Engelkefarm]

Turnigy 2 3s 5000 mah 65- brand new out of the box. Also two brand new atomic 5000 35c those will swell a bit sometimes 8 mm bullets 3.3 lvc. Batteries will drain uneven also. Ran boat all last year no issues at all. The past two weeks smoked a 240a swordfish thats in china now and something is up with the 200A.

[Engelkefarm]

Im thinking its a resistance problem creating the heat. I have the data logger for it i dont know how to post a picture but can send it in a email if someone else wants to. Even with a x442 it will do the same. Motors cool. Esc says 70-80cel. Batteries are smoking. Timing is at 12*

[Rocstar]

A motor that is going bad will take out an ESC. Possible something is up with your Leopard.

[kevinpratt823]

Many say that Turnigy is crap. They are hit or miss, as in some work great out of the box but there is a high rate of failure/bad cells also. The a tomics are just plain rated too low. If you're running a 6s1p setup with that motor you really need higher c rayed packs if you expect them to last, 3-5can@5000man is only 175 amps, and you are likely pulling that. Considering most c ratings are bogus and overrated you're not really within the limits so I would expect those packs to fail. Batteries draining uneven has absolutely nothing to do with an esc, it is a problem with the packs, connections, or perhaps the motor as Rocstar said.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[Rocstar]

So you've smoked one controller and "something" is up with the other.... and your packs are swelling? Just the Atomic packs or the Turnigy ones as well? What's your motor KV BTW?

[Engelkefarm]

It seems like one batt will be 9.xx volt and another will be like 11. I pull it in when it hits lvc. Lvc set to highest 3.3v. Its a 1600 kv motor. Motor spins like always by hand stops pretty well at each pole

[Engelkefarm]

But my seaking 180 ran flawless. Guys last time i checked i live in america if i want to say some chinese trash is junk i will. Im helping other suckers avoid my problems. The only difference is i was using 5.5 bullets last year now using 8mm

[Engelkefarm]

No binding in drive. Greesed everytime.

[kevinpratt823]

Most experienced boaters would tell you not to run to LVC, and by experienced I mean those of us who have learned by ruining many batteries lol. You really need to time your runs, and stop before they get that low. The voltage comes back up when they rest for a bit, and the esc only knows the total voltage, so if one pack is dropping quicker, it goes well below the lvc/cell setting because the other is fooling the controller. Also, consider that the C rating really only applies IMO to fully charged packs, if you try to pull that kind of current from a pack that's getting close to 3.3, it is heavily stressed. If one of the 2 packs is compromised, the other will fail soon as well, because it's trying to pick up all the slack.

[Engelkefarm]

Turnigy packs are just fine i agree atomics are not the best

[Engelkefarm]

I agree but the seaking would drain equal everytime. Always used lvc i have to bring the swordfish in before lvc hits

[Engelkefarm]

Im not trying to start battles im trying to get my boat out and get some experience.

[Rocstar]

Turnigy packs are just fine i agree atomics are not the best
So are the Turnigy packs getting hot and swelling also?

[kevinpratt823]

But my seaking 180 ran flawless. Guys last time i checked i live in america if i want to say some chinese trash is junk i will. Im helping other suckers avoid my problems. The only difference is i was using 5.5 bullets last year now using 8mm
We've already told you, many people use these with good results, so you are also swaying people from using potentially successful setups based on a presumption that your experience is the end all be all, not to mention on a forum that was started and is run by somebody who sells these products. The way you went about it is less than tactful, especially when the problem is not likely the ESC at all. It is America, and this forum is a privilege, not a right. Speak your mind and share your experience, by all means, but you might want to be a little more tactful before you go ranting on 4 threads if you want to stay on here.

[kevinpratt823]

Different ESC's LVC is calibrated differently, some are more accurate than others, regaurdless, not many successful boaters are running them down to cut off.

[kevinpratt823]

Are the individual voltages of each cell closely matched after a run? Do they take a long time to charge and balance?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[Engelkefarm]

Charge fine should drain the same. When i buy a product and say its defaulty and the owner says too bad thats a issue. Turnigys swell as well. Ill post the logger later. And im giving advice thats what the fourm is for buy a seaking 180. From experience

[Engelkefarm]

Individual voltages are not the same. Packs are not even close after a run.

[Engelkefarm]

So now what do i do buy another 180 and kiss the money i spent goodbye? Or is there a return policy on defective units

[Rumdog]

Batteries puffin has absolutely NOTHING to do with your esc. Tell me how the esc is defective. Sounds more like you setup is defective. And/ or your batteries are junk. This is like blaming paper because you keep breaking your pencil lead.


"I'm a professional"

[Doug Smock]

Charge fine should drain the same. When i buy a product and say its defaulty and the owner says too bad thats a issue. Turnigys swell as well. Ill post the logger later. And im giving advice thats what the fourm is for buy a seaking 180. From experience

Individual voltages are not the same. Packs are not even close after a run.

It's sounds like you are beating your batteries to death. You shouldn't use more that 80% of their capacity during a run. Every time you knock the bottom out of them the cells degrade. The IR rises and the capacity is reduced.


When i buy a product and say its defaulty and the owner says too bad thats a issue.


Batteries puffin has absolutely NOTHING to do with your esc. Tell me how the esc is defective. Sounds more like you setup is defective. And/ or your batteries are junk. This is like blaming paper because you keep breaking your pencil lead.

[Doby]

Batteries puffin has absolutely NOTHING to do with your esc. Tell me how the esc is defective. Sounds more like you setup is defective. And/ or your batteries are junk. This is like blaming paper because you keep breaking your pencil lead.


"I'm a professional"


Time to look at your set-up...not the ESC.

[kevinpratt823]

So now what do i do buy another 180 and kiss the money i spent goodbye? Or is there a return policy on defective units
I think you're missing the point. From everything you have described, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the ESC, it is not defective. Just because they charge fine at 5-20 amps, that by no means says they will drain the same at 180 amps. Your Atomics were just not up to the task. If your charger can read IR(internal resistance), you will likely find the Turnigy cells that are far off have IR #'s that are also off. Ideally they should be well below 5 for new packs, my Dinogy packs usually start off below 2. Quality packs have cells that are closely matched in IR, that is basically what dictates how fast they drain. Cheaper packs are not as closely matched, if they even make an effort to match them, on top of that, the IR changes slightly during the first few cycles as it "breaks in". Your ESC is not capable of draining individual cells more than others, and like I said, if llvc is set at 3.3v, and the cells aren't matched, that means some cells are going far below 3.3v. Once you compromise the packs, weather you brought them down too far, or they were just inferior cells with poor matching, they will continue to get worse. Once you puff a pack, even if the swelling goes down, it will likely continue to get worse. I ran a Genesis and a DF explorer, with the exact setup you describe with the 180, and I puffed a couple pairs of 3s, there just isn't enough there to run for more than a couple minutes. I got a Castle 240, and went to a 6s2p setup and it was far more reliable. What kind of current readings were you topping out with on the logging? How many Mah went back into the packs? The bottom line is that the ESC/motor is only a load to the combined cells, unless the data logging shows something abnormal then what those cells do while trying to feed the load has absolutely nothing to do with the ESC.

Trust me, I've had my problems with a couple Swordfish's, but I have come to accept a certain inconsistency with most of these Chinese products. Just like the Turnigy packs, some fail early on possibly from poor quality control, and some perform great for a long period, but nothing you're saying points to the ESC.

[Engelkefarm]

Please tell me how set up is defective. One esc runs fine one generates a bunch of heat please tell me how that is excusable? Setup is all new pretty much. I could rven run a x447 blade with the seaking. But wait...its not the swordfish right? Whats the point of having lvc if its not going to work. Lvc worked fine on seaking. Im stating facts you can say im wrong or your a expert but that will not change facts

[Chilli]

So what ever happened to your Seaking that you switched over to Swordfish??

[Engelkefarm]

Accidently hooked +~ up backwards oneday.

[kevinpratt823]

Your setup is defective because you are running inferior batteries with not enough capacity to supply the load and you are running them down too far. ESC temps are not over the top, and there's no way the ESC can generate heat in the batteries.
The rest of us have already come to terms with the fact that LVC in high draw boats is basically useless to protect batteries, ESPECIALLY if your cells aren't perfectly matched, it's just the way it is. But FWIW, because the max lvc on the SF is 3.3v, I set mine for a cell count of 1 higher than I have and adjust the lvc accordingly, for example my 10s boat is set at 11s/3.1v which is basically the same as 3.4v/cell, but if I run it down to lvc I expect a pack to be compromised, so I time the runs and stop before. You can set it to 7s/3v and it would cut out sooner. The thing with Seaking's is that the LVC is known to cut out prematurely, almost NONE of us use it, this is widely known but that was your saving grace with the old setup, now the LVC is cutting out where it is supposed to, which is way too low, and your packs are being damaged.

[kevinpratt823]

Accidently hooked +~ up backwards oneday.
HOW? Are your bullets not opposite? You don't have a male pos/female neg on it?

[Engelkefarm]

Hooked up +~ up backwards oneday

[ray schrauwen]

The difference between controllers is that the SF200 Pro MIGHT be more up for racing than the T180 is. They program differently, they don't use the same timing numbers, many differences. What I'm saying is that the T180 may have a design that makes it a little more goof proof if a setup is too hot, where the SF may be for those that don't do long runs on 1P setups.


The only difference is i was using 5.5 bullets last year now using 8mm

Change back maybe your problem will go away? Maybe a bad solder connection? What 8mm connectors? I tried the Hobby King 8mm connectors and I threw them out they were crap. I use 5.5mm on my batts but, I run 2P setups on hot or "open" classes of racing. All an 8mm connector will do more than a decent 5.5mm is dissipate heat quicker. BTW, I only use Hobby King 5.5mm connectors, part# AM-1005 and XT-150 for motor connections.

The T180 might have programming that is more forgiving with 1P setups than the SF200, maybe but, I'd say there are problems with your cells.

You said you are running at 12 degrees timing, back it off to 10 degrees. Even though it's a Y wind, a 1600kv setup on 6S1P can be hard on the controller.

Just because we haven't gotten to the bottom of your problem doesn't mean you haven't missed something.

At the Nat's I ran my last run on Q-sport hydro (with a SF240 BTW) I did not notice even after re-greasing that I had severly crushed my stuffing tube causing a TON of binding in the driveline and I might have hurt the motor slightly. When I go back out, this time with my SF200 back in with extra cooling, I'll let you know how it goes. I got it as hot or hotter than 175F on one run and it still is ticking away on the bench. I'll let you know how it goes on my next test run and if it's all good it goes to the NLMBC PAN AM in 2 weeks. I was told by TP Power that my motor prefers 10* timing being a Y wind like yours. Maybe send Leopard an email them and ask what they say is the best timing for your motor?

Lastly, join the 2P club just for a try, you'll not look back. You can run 1P if you like but, at some point you may start having problems with cells that may not be up to par.

[flraptor07]

Hooked up +~ up backwards oneday
Now we know the rest of the story......

[kevinpratt823]

Like Ray said, I was thinking something similar. Has it occurred to you that the 180 was limiting the power that the motor could draw, and the more robust controller is allowing more power to the motor, hence a heavier load on the packs?

[keithbradley]

But my seaking 180 ran flawless.

So why did you replace it?

Have you tried swapping them to opposite sides?

[ray schrauwen]

BTW, I blew up a set of 35-70C cells, all 6S2P in my Q-mono on the first race it saw, why? Cells were not up to par and LVC was set too low. I was running a HK240 aka SF240 and it did survive the blast but, next season I run in another race but, with Dinogy cells, then the ESC gave up the smoke in Michigan last year.... nasty. I severely hurt the esc but, never knew until I put decent cells on it after the bad cells did the esc part way.

I've been doing this for a while and even I make mistakes, first poor cells, nano-tech none the less... Then a partly toasted esc and an untested setup... not even a hot setup, 1200kv on 6S2P... Oh well. There is a new SF240 (bought used on OSE) in there and it runs my mono & Q-sport just great, wish Steve had more in stock...

[ray schrauwen]

.......:wink:




Like Ray said, I was thinking something similar. Has it occurred to you that the 180 was limiting the power that the motor could draw, and the more robust controller is allowing more power to the motor, hence a heavier load on the packs?

[Rumdog]

Individual voltages are not the same. Packs are not even close after a run.


If that is true, Chances are that they aren't before a run or under load either. A crap cell, dips way down in voltage under load... then it puffs. Also, with a 1600kv motor, if you want to run 1p, with a decent sized prop, you'd better have a good lipo pack.

[ray schrauwen]

I've done that too.... Just a couple weeks ago. Those packs will never get run again. It seems this happens more often when hooking up setups in series that are only 1P as my cells were meant for a spec setup. If you run 1P run one pack. If it's not enough Mah, run a pair in Parallel.


Hooked up +~ up backwards oneday

[Engelkefarm]

Setup is not untested i ran it a good 70 times with the seaking props from x442 up to a x450 no issues at all with heat. I had brand new batts 2 sets with a brand new swordfish i have ran it 5 times and it ruined 2 batterys because they are discharging unevenly. Seaking discharged evenly everytime and lvc worked. I expected same with swordfish. Its kind of like selling a car with no gas guage in my opinion... Not what i wanted i enjoyed my seaking and wish i bought anotherone what is there to argue about. Even the water cooling lines in swordfish look cheap theres not much heat transfer there

[Rumdog]

You are NOT getting it, are you? The ESC is not what is drawing the current from your packs.

[ray schrauwen]

No he is not getting it. He is a sport runner with high KV setup on 1P and the T180 is goof proofed.

[ray schrauwen]

So the shrink is off! I may agree the cooling could be better but, you aren't getting it.


Setup is not untested i ran it a good 70 times with the seaking props from x442 up to a x450 no issues at all with heat. I had brand new batts 2 sets with a brand new swordfish i have ran it 5 times and it ruined 2 batterys because they are discharging unevenly. Seaking discharged evenly everytime and lvc worked. I expected same with swordfish. Its kind of like selling a car with no gas guage in my opinion... Not what i wanted i enjoyed my seaking and wish i bought anotherone what is there to argue about. Even the water cooling lines in swordfish look cheap theres not much heat transfer there

[Alexgar]

could we get a wattage rating off the logger so we could better know what amps your trying to pull from these packs? May help settle a few unknows

[Engelkefarm]

I can send it to a email to some one if they want to upload it. So you guys are saying the 180 governed the power?

[iridebikes247]

Sf escs are awesome. Ive pulled 15000 watts through a sf300 have owned a lot of them. The smaller ones are awesome too. Owned a sf240 sold to members on here sounds like theyre working for them too.

[Engelkefarm]

Should batts be draining equal?

[Engelkefarm]

With equal charge. And if 180 is governed why is it not faster now?

[srislash]

If one battery is fine and the other over drained perhaps a bad solder joint in the parallel connectors. Just a suggestion BTW as to why there are problems with one ESC and not anther.

[Engelkefarm]

All joints are good ill take some photos later and post them

[Engelkefarm]

117977All joints are good ill take some photos later and post them

[ezhitz]

I was just wondering the graph shows min voltage of 16.4 would that not cause a problem with the packs resulting in puffing.

[Alexgar]

Am I reading the run time right 298 seconds?

[Engelkefarm]

Yes but i think it keeps loging when i take it out of water till batt is dusconnected

[Engelkefarm]

117978117978

[Engelkefarm]

117979

[keithbradley]

So why did you replace it?

Have you tried swapping them to opposite sides?
^^^These seem like fair questions. Did I miss the answers?^^^

[jcald2000]

The last 15 to 30 seconds of your data graph voltage gives your answer, the voltage falls off a cliff killing the cheap cells.
Listen to what people with MANY years of experience are telling you or continue to suffer because they will mark you as a lost cause.

[Engelkefarm]

I see that. So i should just accept the fact lvc will not work on a swordfish and i have to stand there with a stopwatch? Never did that with my old esc. People with many years are telling me swordfish is putting out more power which is false. I asked should bolth batts drain equal i get no answer. The worst part is i cant state the facts a 180 is better than a swordfish 200a in my opinion

[Engelkefarm]

Your setup is defective because you are running inferior batteries with not enough capacity to supply the load and you are running them down too far. ESC temps are not over the top, and there's no way the ESC can generate heat in the batteries.
The rest of us have already come to terms with the fact that LVC in high draw boats is basically useless to protect batteries, ESPECIALLY if your cells aren't perfectly matched, it's just the way it is. But FWIW, because the max lvc on the SF is 3.3v, I set mine for a cell count of 1 higher than I have and adjust the lvc accordingly, for example my 10s boat is set at 11s/3.1v which is basically the same as 3.4v/cell, but if I run it down to lvc I expect a pack to be compromised, so I time the runs and stop before. You can set it to 7s/3v and it would cut out sooner. The thing with Seaking's is that the LVC is known to cut out prematurely, almost NONE of us use it, this is widely known but that was your saving grace with the old setup, now the LVC is cutting out where it is supposed to, which is way too low, and your packs are being damaged.


Best answer so far. Just gets me mad i have damaged packs because i relied on a lvc and who pays for new ones? Me.

[Doby]

So, solve your problems by doing the following.....
1) buy better packs
2) get a Seaking ESC that you like
3) time your runs

Done!

LVC is for people that are to lazy to time their runs. You can always expect your lipos to not last as long if you use LVC. I think in a previous post you said it ran fine about 70 times!!! Running to LVC 70 times is not going to keep your LiPos happy!!!! Also, remaining battery capacity is more important than the voltage after a run.

Get one of these

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=emp-eossentry2

[rickwess]

Yes but i think it keeps loging when i take it out of water till batt is dusconnected
No it doesn't. My graphs are proof of that. Not sure what the trigger is but it's not logging when I bring it in to check for temps.

[Engelkefarm]

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/downloads/hifei/Hifei-soft-V4.02/Swordfish%20ESC%20manuals.pdf

Page 3 section d about lvc. The 180 i used the lvc on 6 cell. The swordfish instructions say put on 3 cell lvc im guessing this may be my problem?

[T.S.Davis]

Individual voltages are not the same. Packs are not even close after a run.

There's the problem. Speedo can't do that. There's no way for it to do that.

The packs should drain the same.......but only if they are of the same quality. If even one cell in either packs is weak it screws up the whole thing. This is the risk with less expensive packs. Usually it's fine if a cell is delivering lower voltage in say a Revolt running 65 amps or so. You might not notice a weak cell. The boat will likely be slow.........er. When you start drawing 175+ amps that weak cell can make a mess. It gets hot. Increasing it's internal resistance. Which makes the whole system worse. At the end of the run your cells will be hot as hell trying to in effect balance voltages between the cells during the run. It's like trying to run a foot race only someone stuck a knife in one of your legs. Weak leg makes the other leg do all the work. The good leg can't do it alone. Feel'n the burn?

Another risk with the budget packs is internal resistance. If internal resistance is super high on again, just one cell. Screws up the whole works. The other cells have to make up the difference. Back to the foot race. One leg has a cramp. Not only is it useless but your good leg is on fire from the extra work.

The LVC might have bought you time but the heat would still have destroyed the entire system eventually.

I don't think I've hit an LVC since Nimh days. Maybe I just have a mental timer that makes me stop in time. Although, I'm hearing that the premature LVC on my SW120 may have been causing problems for my son in LSH. Not done messing with that.

Guys, there's nothing wrong with buying cheaper packs. Turnigy, Zippy, etc. You just have to accept the risk that comes with them. There IS a failure potential. It isn't a given though. Some of them are awesome. IMHO the cheaper packs require the knowledge to recognize when and more importantly why something isn't working. Unfortunately, the cheaper packs are purchased by guys that can't justify the good ones. "I'm just a back yard basher, I don't want to race" guy is who ends up with them. They don't have knowledge or the equipment to figure the danged things out. That's not a criticism by the way.

Example. Doby had some fresh packs for the Nats. They were of the less expensive variety. Voltage was equal when I checked them two weeks earlier. By race day he had a cell drop out of a pack. Voltage was low on just one cell if I remember correctly. He knows what the potential impact is sssso......he didn't race them. Knowledge wins again. woohoo

The key to this example is that John knew he needed to check them before he threw a gozillion amps at them.

Dang, wrote a novel. Sorry guys. I type fast.

[Livewire121]

LVC is a known problem when dealing with FE in general, so the only way to truly protect your batteries is to use the stopwatch method. I also had lvc problems when i first started running FE, but since i started using the stopwatch method i haven't had a problem. My T-120 esc's lvc would prematurely kick in because of voltage sag. When I brought the boat in and checked the batteries, there would still be about 60% left in the packs.

[T.S.Davis]

My T-120 esc's lvc would prematurely kick in because of voltage sag. When I brought the boat in and checked the batteries, there would still be about 60% left in the packs.

This sounds like what we ran into. I'm going to turn the LVC off. We've run the setup a bunch of times. It's not like we run it until the batts dump. 7 laps and done.

[Livewire121]

This sounds like what we ran into. I'm going to turn the LVC off. We've run the setup a bunch of times. It's not like we run it until the batts dump. 7 laps and done.

Hey Terry it worked like a charm after turning and like you said above, you're only running 7 lap heats.

[kevinpratt823]

If one battery is fine and the other over drained perhaps a bad solder joint in the parallel connectors. Just a suggestion BTW as to why there are problems with one ESC and not anther.

He doesn't have parallel connectors it is 2 packs in series.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[kevinpratt823]

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/downloads/hifei/Hifei-soft-V4.02/Swordfish%20ESC%20manuals.pdf

Page 3 section d about lvc. The 180 i used the lvc on 6 cell. The swordfish instructions say put on 3 cell lvc im guessing this may be my problem?

Wait, are you saying the lvc was set on 3 cell?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[kevinpratt823]

Again, your sk180 likely only lasted because the lvc was cutting out early and your runs were far shorter. From your graph you are obviously running way too long, and you better double check your settings.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[Engelkefarm]

It was set on 3 cell but it should be on 6 cell as i just tried it and no more high temps. Max temp 60* c. The instructions do say to put it on 3 cell for some reason. Packs are draining equal again set on 6 cell also. I do like using lvc i just want it to work the way it should

[rickwess]

It was set on 3 cell but it should be on 6 cell as i just tried it and no more high temps. Max temp 60* c. The instructions do say to put it on 3 cell for some reason. Packs are draining equal again set on 6 cell also. I do like using lvc i just want it to work the way it should

The instructions DO NOT say to set it as 3s. Extrapolating the statement......6S (2 lipo in series) should be set to 6s.

117986

[kevinpratt823]

So maybe now you should go back to the other 3 threads you ranted in and explain that you yourself caused the problem not the controller, and while you're at it you may want to send the owner of ose an apology too.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[Engelkefarm]

Well who wrote up the instructions? Am i not correct instructios say to set at 3 cell

[rickwess]

Well who wrote up the instructions? Am i not correct instructios say to set at 3 cell
No you're not. Please explain how they told you to set the LVC at 3s.

[ron1950]

why complain just don't buy anymore of there product....if its junk they wont be around long anyway...

[Engelkefarm]

Hopefully it helps the next guy. Thats All im trying to do. I do prefer the seaking 180

[T.S.Davis]

8 laps if I blow it. A nice thing and the bad thing about the GP cells. They'll deliver 3v/cell right down to 0% remaining. So I'll finish but with the LVC off the cells may self destruct. I brought in my P offshore boat after 4 minutes and the EOS said I had -3%. How the heck is that possible? Still were over 3v/cell but that was with no load.

This LVC thing puzzles me a bit. It seems to me that the SF esc are actually programmed such that if you set it at 3v/cell it triggers sooner than 3v/cell. Like maybe when set to 3v it cuts at 3.5v. IDK. That's even more idiot proof than the Seaking. They've programmed in their own safety factor. Not necessary for racers that know their setups before they let it all hang out but for a sport guy it should (should) prevent them from over discharging and wrecking their gear.

Now if you set it for a different cell count then you're running all bets are off. That LVC isn't doing jack. A 6s boat set for 3s will discharge down to 9volts. That's shutting down at 1.5v per cell. In theory. That is likely 0% remaining in the packs. Once you over discharge there's no telling what the deal is on the cells. Some cells in the pack may be stone empty and others have some left. Then your charger balances as best it can but the damage is done. The cells wont likely discharge at the same rate anymore. Back to the foot race I described. More heat, more damage every time the boat goes out. If it's run until it shuts down each of those times the cells wont last a dozen runs.

This is especially true on the budget cells. They can't handle abuse. None of the cells are impervious to a beating but the higher end cells are a little more forgiving. Still not recommended to dump them to nothing.

[T.S.Davis]

Thats All im trying to do. I do prefer the seaking 180

The Seaking are really nice. I can just plug it in and not have to figure anything out. Frustrating when I have to learn something new.:doh:

[kevinpratt823]

The instructions don't in any way, even remotely, imply that you should set it at 3s, I have no idea where you are getting that. They tell you about voltage per cell, and give a couple examples, you are running 6 cell.
The fact that you immediately came all over the forum ranting about it and blaming the product, and even the owner of OSE, is disheartening. You also kept saying you're entitled to voice your opinion, and when doing so multiple times you used the words "opinion" and "fact" in the same sentence, basically insisting your opinion was a fact, even though it was based on quick assumptions. You may want to reconsider your approach in that area of discussion.

But I do agree, the Seaking180 has been very simple and good for me as well, I wish they made some comparable higher amperage and higher voltage stuff with data logging that held up like they do.

[ray schrauwen]

edit, my bad, wrong... sorry. Atomik cells are not the greatest that's well known.

[kfxguy]

there's the problem. Speedo can't do that. There's no way for it to do that.

The packs should drain the same.......but only if they are of the same quality. If even one cell in either packs is weak it screws up the whole thing. This is the risk with less expensive packs. Usually it's fine if a cell is delivering lower voltage in say a revolt running 65 amps or so. You might not notice a weak cell. The boat will likely be slow.........er. When you start drawing 175+ amps that weak cell can make a mess. It gets hot. Increasing it's internal resistance. Which makes the whole system worse. At the end of the run your cells will be hot as hell trying to in effect balance voltages between the cells during the run. It's like trying to run a foot race only someone stuck a knife in one of your legs. Weak leg makes the other leg do all the work. The good leg can't do it alone. Feel'n the burn?

Another risk with the budget packs is internal resistance. If internal resistance is super high on again, just one cell. Screws up the whole works. The other cells have to make up the difference. Back to the foot race. One leg has a cramp. Not only is it useless but your good leg is on fire from the extra work.

The lvc might have bought you time but the heat would still have destroyed the entire system eventually.

I don't think i've hit an lvc since nimh days. Maybe i just have a mental timer that makes me stop in time. Although, i'm hearing that the premature lvc on my sw120 may have been causing problems for my son in lsh. Not done messing with that.

Guys, there's nothing wrong with buying cheaper packs. Turnigy, zippy, etc. You just have to accept the risk that comes with them. There is a failure potential. It isn't a given though. Some of them are awesome. Imho the cheaper packs require the knowledge to recognize when and more importantly why something isn't working. Unfortunately, the cheaper packs are purchased by guys that can't justify the good ones. "i'm just a back yard basher, i don't want to race" guy is who ends up with them. They don't have knowledge or the equipment to figure the danged things out. That's not a criticism by the way.

Example. Doby had some fresh packs for the nats. They were of the less expensive variety. Voltage was equal when i checked them two weeks earlier. By race day he had a cell drop out of a pack. Voltage was low on just one cell if i remember correctly. He knows what the potential impact is sssso......he didn't race them. Knowledge wins again. Woohoo

the key to this example is that john knew he needed to check them before he threw a gozillion amps at them.

Dang, wrote a novel. Sorry guys. I type fast.

^^^^^this

[kfxguy]

edit, my bad, wrong... sorry. Atomik cells are not the greatest that's well known.

atomik as in venom packs?

[Engelkefarm]

I actually dont think the problem is resolved. But ill figure it out on my own. Too many guys getting all worked up on here

[Rocstar]

The only one "worked up" is you, over the Swordfish ESC. Over 80 posts, all to help you understand what is going on with your boat. But it seems you would rather bash the controller and OSE then actually take advice. Good luck to you...

[kevinpratt823]

I actually dont think the problem is resolved. But ill figure it out on my own. Too many guys getting all worked up on here
You have to be kidding me.......Is your ego clouding things that much? The problem has been spelled out for you, but you refuse to accept or acknowlege that your actions alone have caused it.
It is pretty clear what the boat problems are. You failed to understand how to set an LVC, then you blindly ran it(repeatedly) to a cutoff that was way too low. On top of that, your packs are lower quality, and your 5000 mah setup is underpowered for what you're trying to do if you want to run for more than 2 min. But I think Rumdog said it best when he likened it to blaming the paper for breaking the pencil lead. There is a reason basically everybody on here who has been running boats other than rtr setups eventually realizes that you have to time your runs, and not bring your batteries down lower than 80%, that means when you charge those packs, you shouldn't be putting more than 4000 mah back in. If I ran any one of my boats down to LVC @ 3.3v/cell, nevermind the 1.65v/cell you had it set at, my packs would probably look like giant marshmallows, I know this because I learned the hard way. But by all means, keep puffing packs and insist it's the equipment's fault....but don't expect us to co-sign your BS.

[Livewire121]

My advice is to listen to those with a lot more experience then yourself. Read more then you post. I spend 95% of my time on this site reading, compared to the 5% of posting that I do. Learn as much as you can from the people that have been in this hobby a lot longer then you and I combined. And when you do ask a question truly respect the fact that they've taken the time to reply. There's no shame in admitting you don't know or understand something, but shame is full of people that act like they do. Just my 2 cents

[T.S.Davis]

then the ESC gave up the smoke in Michigan last year.... nasty.

Sorry Ray. Had to come back to this. I can still taste that speedo on my soft pallet.

[Rocstar]

Sorry Ray. Had to come back to this. I can still taste that speedo on my soft pallet.
Kind of like the smell of gasoline, you're not supposed to enjoy it...but for some reason I do. Something is wrong with me. :tongue_smilie:

[Rumdog]

I think a gas boat is more up your alley.


"I'm a professional"

[T.S.Davis]

I love the smell of a crispy critter. There is absolutely something wrong with me.

Great signature by the way "I'm a professional". Makes me giggle.

[Rumdog]

Mmmmmm 2 stroke smell :)


"I'm a professional"

[darryl whitman]

If I may, Engelkefarm , these guys have the time an EXP, in FE boats . when I ask for help, like you did here , step back
an take in what they are saying, the info they gave me , have made me a faster an saved me money,
yes I run GEN ace 2s hard packs, turnigy hard packs , zippy 4s soft packs , and out of 30 packs , 2 packs died on me.
1 thing is charging batts , I do 1c rate also I never run them down under 3.70 per cell. after reading MPs an posts
from these guys, al I'm saying is no 1 here wants you to fail. Darryl

[Engelkefarm]

You guys are the ones that dont get it. The boat ran fine for over a year those junk batts i got did there job the lvc kicked on everytime everything ran cool with the seaking. Now i know it was my fault i blew that up from hooking batts up backwards. So now i buy this swordfish from day one it was issues trying to load the program on to my computer was a headach i used three computers and think i got a virus on one from downloading drivers to open it. Swordfish has a lvc setting and is advertised but i should have known better that the lvc wont work. The example in the instructions is a little confusing. Btw it would always auto detect lvc6 cell anyway so that was not the problem. Can i not have a opinion? I dont like the swordfish i have and i wish i bought another 180. Everyones a expert on here but i have seen alot of bs answers.

[Engelkefarm]

kevinpratt823
Senior Member
Join Date
Aug 2012
Location
ma
Posts
848

Like Ray said, I was thinking something similar. Has it occurred to you that the 180 was limiting the power that the motor could draw, and the more robust controller is allowing more power to the motor, hence a heavier load on the packs?
My private off road rc track
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjkb...qMm6yJUtyaNZNA


??? So a boat with a swordfish will be faster then a boat with a 180? Theres a governor on a 180?

[Engelkefarm]

Rumdog anyone can use a stopwatch mf

[Engelkefarm]

Any experts ever look into how many Differnt factorys produce lipos?

[Engelkefarm]

The Seaking are really nice. I can just plug it in and not have to figure anything out. Frustrating when I have to learn something new.:doh:

Why should i have to learn something new? The only new thing is lvc wont work and experts dont use lvc. Heres a question why dont the build them with a built in timer instead?

[Doby]

SO BUY ANOTHER SEAKING 180 AND QUIT WHINING.

You probably had the Seaking set properly for the LVC cutoff and messed up the Swordfish setting...thats probably why it worked "perfectly" for all the 70 runs. Whatever the reason, your batteries are FUBAR'd right now.

We all know that all LiPos come out of one factory in China "LiPo's R Us" and just get different labels put on them before shipment.

[Doby]

Rumdog anyone can use a stopwatch mf

What's and "mf"????

If its what I think it is, then that's not very nice...

[revoltrunner]

I think this all boils down to any product can
be called junk if used improperly.

[Doby]

I think this all boils down to any product can
be called junk if used improperly.

Yup!

[Engelkefarm]

Improper use would be not timing my runs? Not too sure what your saying there.

[rickwess]

Your data log say it all. The lipos dropped to ~2.7V per cell, under load no less.

We all make mistakes. Just learn from them and move on. Blaming the ESC and the person who sold it to you serves no purpose when it's clear you didn't set it up properly.

[keithbradley]

Heres a question why dont the build them with a built in timer instead?

"They" do. Quit buying the cheapest possible components and then whining when you find out they're not idiot proof.

[Engelkefarm]

Theres only so much money i can justify putting into a toy. What esc are you refering to? The real problem is its hard to determine what is good whats not until after you buy it. You guys say whining but i try and just make myself clear to not only help myself but anyone else who might be having the same question/problems. No one knows it all and one will learn something new everyday. Telling me my stuff is crap all the time is kind of agreeing about the topic of the thread

[Engelkefarm]

Still my biggest issue with the swordfish is trying to install disc. Im using 4.11 verson that i was able to download thanks to alexgar. The disc that came with it is 4.12 but just get a bunch of errors. I try and dl from website and even more errors.

[rickwess]

Still my biggest issue with the swordfish is trying to install disc. Im using 4.11 verson that i was able to download thanks to alexgar. The disc that came with it is 4.12 but just get a bunch of errors. I try and dl from website and even more errors.
Get the program card if you are having trouble with the SW. The worst thing you could have done is run the ESC if you were not 100% sure it was set-up properly.

There is a thread here that posts everyone's blunders. The key is that we admit WE made the mistake.

[T.S.Davis]

They don't build in a timer because they can't know what we idiots are going to plug into them.

If I plug in a 6s/2000mah pack and draw 180 amps I have about 32 seconds of run time before my cells could be degrading or even ruined.
Take the same setup and plug 6s/10000mah and my run time is about 160 seconds before my cells will start to get pissed at me.

The speedo simply can't know what I've plugged into it. So run time would vary.

The LVC works TOO well on a Swordfish. If set to the correct number of cells it will actually shut you down earlier than you/we need it to. Racers turn it off because they know what the setup can and will do long before they shut the LVC off.

This is one of my frustrations with our hobby. Anybody can read anything on the internet and think they're ready to jump into a high performance setup. They may not even be able to do the math and understand it. With no one to look at their setups they can't figure out a trouble spot and blame the equipment. I'm not trying to yell at the original poster here necessarily. I KNOW this is how it works because I have been that guy. I've crispy critter'd a lot of equipment over the years. :flame42::doh:

Our club had 4 guys in the top 10 at the nationals and we still trouble shoot each others rides. Sometimes you can't see what you did wonky. So you ask for some expert advice. I do it all the time. If you don't have anyone to ask, bring it here and I guarantee someone will see what's causing you fits. But you have to take the advice and see if it applies. If you stop learning in this hobby your toast.

The problem with the setup inspiring this thread boils down to two things:
1. Not understanding what the LVC is for. It's a safety net. It's not intended to indicate the end of a run. Run till it quits is an old NiMh way of thinking. Even those cells would protest.
2. Compounded by the fact that the LVC was set to the wrong cell count.

Those two things combined to destroy the cells. It really is that simple.

[kevinpratt823]

Any experts ever look into how many Differnt factorys produce lipos?

I know the cells all come from only a few places. The difference is that budget packs are just cells assembled at random, quality packs the cells are tested and assembled with all cells that have very closely matching internal resistance, and the cells that don't meet thier tolerances are not used for thier higher rated packs. You will see it for yourself if you watch for the readings on a charger that is capable, especially after a few cycles.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[kevinpratt823]

kevinpratt823
Senior Member
Join Date
Aug 2012
Location
ma
Posts
848

Like Ray said, I was thinking something similar. Has it occurred to you that the 180 was limiting the power that the motor could draw, and the more robust controller is allowing more power to the motor, hence a heavier load on the packs?
My private off road rc track
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjkb...qMm6yJUtyaNZNA


??? So a boat with a swordfish will be faster then a boat with a 180? Theres a governor on a 180?

Perhaps you may notice that I said "I was thinking the same thing". I was brainstorming openly to try to get a resolution for your dilemma. But fwiw
This is the way it works with rc cars. A 1/8 esc allows a 1/10 car to run faster as the smaller 1/10 esc does limit the punch that is delivered.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[Engelkefarm]

Is there any advatage of latest updade?

[kevinpratt823]

117978117978
Are those motor bullet connections bare?

[tlandauer]

This has been one of the most difficult/confusing threads to follow, partly because I am out of the country and wi fi is bad, and partly because when a thread gets somewhat personal it has a tendency to spiral down quickly . So my comments are just my thoughts only.
I had to use a 220Pro+ 6s in my JAE 21 rigger. Initially I had a lot of worries since I had read that there are issues with Swordfish ESCs. I had a great deal of trouble getting the USB to work, but it was my ignorance. Many good people tried to help, including the OP. Steven was so supportive that I had to practically beg him to give up on me and he refused. Anyway, with the set up I had, I achieved 69.5 mph, slower than many experienced people, but a record for me. That is what I cared----with the advice and help that I was given, I made progress and at the end of the day, I had a big smile on my face.
I don`t think it is possible to know a product until enough people have invested in it and a meaningful data can then be established. In the course of this journey there would be many heart burns and headaches. I was prepared to write off the ESC in case it did not work for me, but as I followed all sensible advices and the ESC has proven itself, I will buy another one any time.

[Gary]

What's and "mf"????

If its what I think it is, then that's not very nice...

And again ....whats the MF????

[revoltrunner]

And again ....whats the MF????
his bio says farmer.
it must be Massey Ferguson.

[flraptor07]

And again ....whats the MF????
I'm pretty sure we all know what MF is and that should be the end of Mr. Engelkefarm on this form. but that's just my opinion and after seeing that he'll never get any help from me, besides I don't think he can be helped..

[Doug Smock]

Rumdog anyone can use a stopwatch mf

Your stay here will be short if this persists. Please respond to the PM.

Thanks in advance.:tiphat:

[Engelkefarm]

Revo runner understands

[Doug Smock]

Revo runner understands

Have it your way.:sinking-guy:

[Engelkefarm]

You guys dont want me using your site fine but i wont be spending any more money at ose

[Engelkefarm]

Bullets are not bare clear wrap

[Doug Smock]

You guys dont want me using your site fine but i wont be spending any more money at ose

Steven maintains the site for you to use, not abuse.

I'm sure OSE will survive. Perhaps HK will better meet your needs.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Id like to thank everyone for trying to help him out.

Here is his response to me by email yesterday.

"Sorry man my fault i had lvc set to three cell. Should have been 6. Seems to be running good now. The example in instructions had me thrown off. The 240a was on 3 cell also and probably the reason its toast

Thank you"

Seems like he's all set for now.

[Steven Vaccaro]

You guys dont want me using your site fine but i wont be spending any more money at ose


Sorry to hear that. But I have to say all the info I gave by email was trying to point you in the right direction, the guys on here were trying to point you in the right direction. If you think you can find better help somewhere else, I understand.