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rickwess
06-01-2014, 10:04 AM
Boat: Insane Mono 34
Motor: TP4060 2040kv (5D)
Battery: 4s2p (Thunder Power 5000mah 70C)
Prop: x447/3

ESC Settings: 116079

I've been having some NOOB issues dialing in the boat, but I think I have it right now. Just a little chine walk but I can now run the boat WOT now without fear.......kinda.

The ESC is running VERY HOT. So hot that the heat shrink on the motor wires is softening and can be moved around. All 3 wires. That in itself tells me its a current problem. The batteries and motor are fine temp wise. When I tried to pull the data log it failed and the Hifei program closed. I pulled off the heat shrink and all looks fine. I'm out of heat shrink at the cottage so I might just tape it up with electrical tape to see if I can run it for a minute and pull a log.

Important Note: This ESC was submerged when powered early in it's life. On one of the first runs, the boat had flip that peeled a strip of the hatch tape off. By the time I got to the boat it was bobbing vertical in the water. It sat burried in rice for a week and it seems to work OK except for the excessive heat.

Any thoughts and advice would be appreciated.

oscarel
06-01-2014, 11:20 AM
What does intake on rudder look like?
Should look like this http://manuals.hobbico.com/aqu/aqub24-25-tech.pdf to allow ample water flow.
Edit: never mind, looks like you have it right. Saw your thread in the boat building section.


I'm in the process of setting up same boat/motor combo but will use a different controller.

rickwess
06-01-2014, 12:22 PM
Yes, it's a Speedmaster with dual pickups. Lots of water flow.

I think it's excess current related. I'm going to prop down and hopefully be able to pull a log this time.

Jareth
06-01-2014, 12:27 PM
I think that's the problem too prop i down try an 2 blade prop the x445/2 or the x442/2

tlandauer
06-01-2014, 01:06 PM
How hot actually is the ESC itself? Judging the temp on the wires alone tells half the story: it can be a soldering problem, it can be that your connectors are not up to their task, what size do you use?
I have had hot motor wires but the ESC itself was not over heating, just saying...
BTW, I ran mine with X447/3 w/o issue, 4s2p , Castle-Neu 1515 1y 2200kv. Dinogy 5000mah 65c and 6500mah 65c , all 4s packs. ESC is CC Hydra Ice 240.

rickwess
06-01-2014, 01:23 PM
They are 6.5mm. The whole ESC is hot.........caps, body, wires.

Going out now to run it with a m445 and hopefully be able to pull data afterwards.

rickwess
06-01-2014, 02:22 PM
Ran it for 1 min on a m445 and brought it to check temps. It was cool. Ran it for another 2 minutes and it just stopped out in the middle of the lake. I suspect thermal shutdown, but I can't pull the data log.

I get the following error on a Windows 8.1 OS:

116102

Edit: I just found out that you can't install the HeFei SW in the default directory. I installed it to my RC folder and it works OK now.

rickwess
06-01-2014, 02:38 PM
Here's the logs from the last run. It's running hot (75C = 167F), but the current looks OK.

116106

116107


I can only conclude that a) I don't have enough water flow or b) it was damaged in some way when it was submerged.

When I blow compressed air into each of the water pick-ups it shoots whatever water is in the system out quite forcefully. When it's in the water, how hard should the water stream be?

Edit: There's something about the temperature curve that is bugging me. The temp drops 30C in about 10secs at one point. The throttle position was low, so I assume that was when I was bringing it in to check the temps.

116108

oscarel
06-01-2014, 03:36 PM
That's the reason I was asking about the intakes on the rudder. Make sure the slits go all the way to the end of the rudder. I have to tywrap my water lines on so they don't get blown off on a few boats.

rickwess
06-01-2014, 05:45 PM
I'm not sure I can improve on this though.

116115

They are low enough in the water and the leading edge is lined up with the leading edge of the drive dog.

Jareth
06-01-2014, 06:12 PM
Use one of the inlets for your esc and the other for the motor

rickwess
06-01-2014, 06:37 PM
Use one of the inlets for your esc and the other for the motor
Both are being used.

Fella1340
06-01-2014, 06:55 PM
I wonder if switching the lines around so the esc is being cooled from the other inlet might help, atleast it might rule out water flow to the esc. Just a thought

Jareth
06-01-2014, 06:56 PM
But use one of the inlet to cool the esc and the other inlet to cool the motor

Jareth
06-01-2014, 06:57 PM
Can you send a pic of the inside of the boat please

rickwess
06-01-2014, 06:59 PM
But use one of the inlet to cool the esc and the other inlet to cool the motor
I'm not sure there is another way to do it than that. The motor and the ESC cooling loops are separate.

116116

oscarel
06-01-2014, 07:03 PM
Mine look like this. Not saying it's going to solve your issue but it will give a more cooling.

116117

rickwess
06-01-2014, 07:06 PM
I wonder if switching the lines around so the esc is being cooled from the other inlet might help, at least it might rule out water flow to the esc. Just a thought
Yep.

There has to be something basic that I'm missing. It makes no sense that the motor stays cool as ice yet the ESC is reaching 160F. I need to invent one of those ear-muff attachments (what I use to run my RFL otuboard out of the water) for the rudder to do a test of water flow.

oscarel
06-01-2014, 07:20 PM
Yep.

There has to be something basic that I'm missing. It makes no sense that the motor stays cool as ice yet the ESC is reaching 160F. I need to invent one of those ear-muff attachments (what I use to run my RFL otuboard out of the water) for the rudder to do a test of water flow.

Get something like this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/RS-360SH-DC-9V-Mini-Micro-Water-Priming-Pump-Spray-Motor-Pisciculture-Aquarium-/141303630501?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item20e65a4aa5) or a dubro fuel pump.

Is the esc hooked up to the bottom pickup?

rickwess
06-01-2014, 07:44 PM
Get something like this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/RS-360SH-DC-9V-Mini-Micro-Water-Priming-Pump-Spray-Motor-Pisciculture-Aquarium-/141303630501?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item20e65a4aa5) or a dubro fuel pump.

Is the esc hooked up to the bottom pickup?
I want to run the water into the rudder pick-ups, not the water line.

Yes the ESC is on the bottom pick-up.

oscarel
06-01-2014, 07:54 PM
I want to run the water into the rudder pick-ups, not the water line.

Yes the ESC is on the bottom pick-up.

Run it the opposite direction, you'll be able to see what's coming out and that would be about what's going in. I also do this to make sure the seals around the motor are working and there's no leaks in the lines.

TristanJones
06-02-2014, 04:50 AM
If you have 2200kv 4s m445 prop that looks like a normal log to me.

This one pictured here is TP4050 2200kv m445 in my FE30 hydro.

116128

TristanJones
06-02-2014, 04:54 AM
Above pic was a small lake though always on the turn fin so current draw was high.

rickwess
06-02-2014, 08:31 AM
If you have 2200kv 4s m445 prop that looks like a normal log to me.

This one pictured here is TP4050 2200kv m445 in my FE30 hydro.

116128

Thanks. It's good to have a direct comparison. You're running even hotter. Isn't 88C too hot?

TristanJones
06-02-2014, 08:54 AM
That's peak temp. If you take a look, it's risen to that over time. My boats run 2mins max. As you can see I try to stay on the throttle lol

TristanJones
06-02-2014, 09:00 AM
Also look at the average current draw between your log and mine.
Make sure your water lines are all free flowing. Check motor jacket for flow sometimes there can be an issue there. It's hot but it's a race set up. It will be by the end of a run

rickwess
06-02-2014, 09:03 AM
That's peak temp. If you take a look, it's risen to that over time. My boats run 2mins max. As you can see I try to stay on the throttle lol
Your FE30 temp curve looks identical to my FE30 temp curve. My Mono curve on the other hand just looks strange.

If I was reading 88C with my temp gun I would be worried, but as noted in the other thread, there was a big difference between what I was measuring and what the data log was saying. I'm just learning how to interpret the data logs so I'm learning the difference is to be expected.

T.S.Davis
06-02-2014, 09:05 AM
In case we missed it. What's your timing set to?

rickwess
06-02-2014, 09:16 AM
0* on the D winding (mono) and 10* on the Y winding (hydro). This thread is really about the heat with the mono. Tristan posted his hydro logs here in what I think was a response to my hydro logs in a different thread.

The weekend is over so I've lost access to water for 2 weeks now due to work.......damn.

On a little bit of a tangent, since I pulled the heat shrink off the Swordfish to check for issues, can I assume the existing caps are parallel? It looks like I could easily add 2 extra caps before I put it back together.

TristanJones
06-02-2014, 09:20 AM
His timing is at zero. Which I thought odd. Hope it's not a Y wind.
Rickwess, If u have a Y wind motor u want 8-14 deg of timing.

TristanJones
06-02-2014, 09:29 AM
Sorry, I'm on my phone. It's real slow.
Mono will always pull more amps than a hydro. In a straight line anyway. Therefore running hotter.
No comment on the extra caps, I'm not sure the right answer.
Are the temp and throttle curves relative?

T.S.Davis
06-02-2014, 09:35 AM
Well it's not that. I asked about timing because if it's high it can make for heat.

I was going to suggest the 447/3 was a bit too much. Hard to tell with it dropping out him on the 445. Scratching my head on this one too. We had one yesterday that de-soldered for no apparent reason.

It's a nice build. Very tidy. How is the drive line? Is it smooth?

Is there a gap at the drive dog?

I apologize for the seemingly basic questions but sometimes I miss the littlest things and it bites me on the behind.

rickwess
06-02-2014, 09:42 AM
How is the drive line? Is it smooth?

Is there a gap at the drive dog?

I apologize for the seemingly basic questions but sometimes I miss the littlest things and it bites me on the behind.
At this point, nothing is a basic question. The drive-line is smooth............and short. There is a gap at the drive dog, but only about 1/2 a cable width since the flex part of the cable is only 4"-5" long. I do run a teflon washer between the drive dog and stinger so I can tell if there is binding going on.

srislash
06-02-2014, 09:57 AM
If you have the shrink off Rick, be sure to check the thermal compound between the cooling and FETs or even redo it. I have seen a little separation on some ESC's there. Just something to check.

It just dawned on me, these are soldered cooling blocks aren't they?

oscarel
06-02-2014, 10:14 AM
Might be a little work, but what about swapping controllers between your hydro and mono?

rickwess
06-02-2014, 10:15 AM
If you have the shrink off Rick, be sure to check the thermal compound between the cooling and FETs or even redo it. I have seen a little separation on some ESC's there. Just something to check.

It just dawned on me, these are soldered cooling blocks aren't they?
I was going to say that there is no thermal compound. The FETs are soldered directly to the cooling tubes. I wrapped it in electrical tape yesterday so I could run it some more, but I'll post some pics of the innards when I go to put it back together for real. Of note, the electrical tape does a better job of binding the wires and caps tight to the ESC than heat shrink does. When I put it back together for good, I'll probably use electrical tape for the first layer, then put a layer of heat shrink over that.

rickwess
06-02-2014, 10:28 AM
Might be a little work, but what about swapping controllers between your hydro and mono?
The hydro's battery wires are too short and the mono is 4s2p. It would be and in the end I wouldn't have an ESC for the hydro. Once I've ruled out the obvious, the Ockham's razor principle will kick in and I'll just get another ESC.

kfxguy
06-02-2014, 10:49 AM
Is the boat running wet? As in nose down? That will cause extra drag and heat. Also looks like your trim tabs are flush with the bottom of the hull...they shouldn't be. They look a little angled down (causing to run wet) but it could just be the pic. Just some ideas.

rickwess
06-02-2014, 10:54 AM
The boat doesn't look to be running wet. The pic you saw was an older one before adjustments were made to stop porpoising. The way it sits now looks to be the happy medium between porpoising and chine walk.

The stinger is neutral

116136

Jareth
06-02-2014, 11:53 AM
Rais the trimtaps they are causing alot of drag

427srule
06-02-2014, 08:35 PM
Thanks. It's good to have a direct comparison. You're running even hotter. Isn't 88C too hot?

The Specs for all Swordfish controllers say they are thermal protected to 100 degrees Centigrade, 212 degrees Fahrenheit

I hope so, because some of mine are pretty close.

rayzerdesigns
06-02-2014, 09:24 PM
I would suggest taking speedo off top of motor also..even though both water cooled..heat off of motor rises to speedo..

IRON-PAWW
06-02-2014, 10:13 PM
I bought a Swordfish 240 just recently that had badly mis-aligned cooling tubes. That is, each tube is made of two, set out end to end. If I look up the tubes you can clearly see the obstruction the misalignment makes. I'd say one of them is blocked by half at least. Would *really* restrict water flow in mine. Not sure if the 220 is built the same. Check it anyhow.

Fella1340
06-02-2014, 11:33 PM
Hi Rick, I have nothing to add but I would appreciate seeing the inside of the esc if your still planning on posting pictures. I have two of them and a heads up on anything to look for would be much appreciated.
Thanks

rickwess
06-03-2014, 03:54 PM
Pics of the inside:

116174 116175 116176 116177 116178

The aluminum plate covers the FETs was insulated with the thinnest piece of silicon sheet I have ever seen. I could see that the silicone already had some perforations from the FETs. When I put it back together, I plan on using 1/8" automotive gasket from a sheet I had laying around (why do I have this stuff??). It's a cork/rubber mixture so should insulate and handle heat well.

srislash
06-03-2014, 09:19 PM
I really don't get the aluminum plate. I guess they think it will help disapate some heat from the electronics. Perhaps a cooling plate put there would help.:confused2: My new Flier Twin 300 has a cooling plate sandwiched in between the two halves in this fashion. I guess they figure it will help keep the board cooler as well.
So I ran my Bling Sunday Rick and sure noticed my ESC warm too. Mind you it was on 5s. Posted the vid in my thread if you want to see how the speed compares.

rickwess
06-03-2014, 09:50 PM
That thin silicon pad must be thermally conductive. Neither it or the aluminum plate touch the cooling tubes, just the FET bodies. If anything it just equalizes the temps of the FETs.

I'll take a look at the video you posted.

David Kingston
06-03-2014, 10:23 PM
Just a suggestion...
Did you calibrate the throttle.
Ive had some issues with throttle not getting 100% green with SF esc's and spektrum radio.
I set the end points on transmitter to 125% or higher and it seams to work.

At 100% end point it was like i was getting 70% throttle.
If your not getting full throttle it will heat up.

Regards
Dave

rickwess
06-03-2014, 11:45 PM
The latest firmware update solved that problem with the Spektrum radios.

rickwess
06-04-2014, 01:04 AM
I just ordered this (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2Pcs-100-100-2mm-Heatsink-Conductive-Pad-CPU-GPU-BGA-VGA-Silicone-Compound-Pad-/321419076262) to replace the thin pad that came with the ESC. At 2mm thick it's much more substantial than what came with the ESC.

While I'm at it, I'll use 1/8" thick piece if aluminum in place of the ~1mm thick piece that came with it.


Edit: I was thinking about this some more last night and with cutting my own thermal pad, I can make it wide enough so that it touches each of the cooling tubes. This should drain some more heat from the FETs. I'm not encouraging anyone to start ripping there SF ESCs apart, but if you do..............Now to wait for the stuff to arrive from Hong Kong.

rickwess
06-04-2014, 09:28 AM
So I ran my Bling Sunday Rick and sure noticed my ESC warm too. Mind you it was on 5s. Posted the vid in my thread if you want to see how the speed compares.
Nice. My speed with the m445 seems similar to yours on 4s with the m447.

I still would like to run a 3 blade, but the x447/3 is the smallest I have. My investment in props is about to go up. This is another dirty little secret about this hobby. If they only new the amount of money tied up in that prop box.

Fella1340
06-04-2014, 10:33 AM
Thanks for posting the pictures. It surprises me that esc cooling always appears so inadequate. I wonder if allowing the fets to run at a higher temperature is part of the design. It would be easy to envelope the esc's is cooling, yet it's not done. There must be a balance of some kind they are trying to reach. Something else to look into in my spare time!

rickwess
06-04-2014, 01:44 PM
More FYI. The 4 caps on the ESCs are arranged as follows:

(-)---[560uf]---[560uf]---(+)
(-)---[560uf]---[560uf]---(+)

They are 35v ZLH.

I think I'm going to go back to my original idea of using an external cap bank even though it's only 4s. I'll configure it like below but need to think about how to neatly tie it into the existing wiring.

(-)---[470uf]---[470uf]---(+)
(-)---[470uf]---[470uf]---(+)
(-)---[470uf]---[470uf]---(+).
(-)---[470uf]---[470uf]---(+)

srislash
06-04-2014, 03:02 PM
Did you read Doc's Cap thread Rick? Put the caps direct to the wires.

TristanJones
06-04-2014, 05:53 PM
Thanks for posting the pictures. It surprises me that esc cooling always appears so inadequate. I wonder if allowing the fets to run at a higher temperature is part of the design. It would be easy to envelope the esc's is cooling, yet it's not done. There must be a balance of some kind they are trying to reach. Something else to look into in my spare time!

I was thinking the exact same thing.
Thanks heaps for the pictures!

oscarel
06-04-2014, 06:59 PM
I just ordered this (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2Pcs-100-100-2mm-Heatsink-Conductive-Pad-CPU-GPU-BGA-VGA-Silicone-Compound-Pad-/321419076262) to replace the thin pad that came with the ESC. At 2mm thick it's much more substantial than what came with the ESC.

While I'm at it, I'll use 1/8" thick piece if aluminum in place of the ~1mm thick piece that came with it.


Edit: I was thinking about this some more last night and with cutting my own thermal pad, I can make it wide enough so that it touches each of the cooling tubes. This should drain some more heat from the FETs. I'm not encouraging anyone to start ripping there SF ESCs apart, but if you do..............Now to wait for the stuff to arrive from Hong Kong.

Wouldn't thinner be more ideal? The pad doesn't have great thermal transfer properties compared to direct contact using thermal paste.

rickwess
06-04-2014, 08:13 PM
Wouldn't thinner be more ideal? The pad doesn't have great thermal transfer properties compared to direct contact using thermal paste.
From the reading I've been doing, the thermal conductivity of this material is the same regardless of thickness (within reason). Of more importance is that the pad is thick enough to bridge the gap or conform to the surface its applied to. In this application it also has to electrically insulate.

I'll admit that I'm learning on the fly, but that's part of the fun here.

rickwess
06-04-2014, 08:19 PM
Did you read Doc's Cap thread Rick? Put the caps direct to the wires.
I read that thread a while ago and then corresponded with Wayne directly. I have some space limitations but the wires off the cap bank will be as short as possible, use 10awg wire and have no connectors.

Fella1340
06-05-2014, 11:43 AM
I bought from pre drilled circuit board from circuit city to make mounting the caps easy. I am using the same series parallel setup you are. The only stuff I could get had trace on one side, a quick trip on the belt sander eliminated that. With a little trimming they will be perfect to hold the caps to connect directly to the wire. Some heat shrink to finish it off. I can do a mock up and take a couple pictures if you like.

Fella1340
06-05-2014, 11:44 AM
That silicone padding you bought looks great. I will be ordering some to have around.

rickwess
06-05-2014, 12:27 PM
I bought from pre drilled circuit board from circuit city to make mounting the caps easy. I am using the same series parallel setup you are. The only stuff I could get had trace on one side, a quick trip on the belt sander eliminated that. With a little trimming they will be perfect to hold the caps to connect directly to the wire. Some heat shrink to finish it off. I can do a mock up and take a couple pictures if you like.

Sayal has the circuit board without traces.

I've built a few a these now. This time I put some 1/8" plywood at the base before I covered it in heat shrink. This should make it easier velco to the hull.

116280

116281

116282

116283

116284

M3Man03
06-05-2014, 01:01 PM
I use this stuff instead of any pad:

116285

http://www.amazon.com/Arctic-Alumina-Thermal-Adhesive-Tube/dp/B0009IQ1BU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401987638&sr=8-1&keywords=thermal+epoxy

Then you don't need to find any way of securing it. The thinner the better for heat transfer.

rickwess
06-05-2014, 01:23 PM
I use this stuff instead of any pad:

http://www.amazon.com/Arctic-Alumina-Thermal-Adhesive-Tube/dp/B0009IQ1BU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401987638&sr=8-1&keywords=thermal+epoxy

Then you don't need to find any way of securing it. The thinner the better for heat transfer.

That would be better for a CPU, but the application here is much different. Take a look at the pic of the ESC and tell me how the paste would work.

116286

M3Man03
06-06-2014, 09:53 AM
I actually just re-did mine and think I found a perfect solution.

I took 1/2" aluminum angle, cut 2 pieces to the length of the MOSFETs, applied thermal epoxy to them and the cooling brass tube so they were facing down. 1 side of the angle touched the MOSFETs and one side attached to the brass cooling tube.

Then I put the original aluminum plate across both of the sides, epoxied to it.

I should have taken some pictures during, but I didn't. Turns out to a REAL nice package and gives cooling to the other side of the MOSFETs as well rather than just the plate to equalize the temperature.

Here's 2 pics of the finished product. The black stuff is liquid electrical tape for waterproofing.

116313
116314

ray schrauwen
06-06-2014, 04:04 PM
Nice Job!


Sayal has the circuit board without traces.

I've built a few a these now. This time I put some 1/8" plywood at the base before I covered it in heat shrink. This should make it easier velco to the hull.

116280

116281

116282

116283

116284

rickwess
06-06-2014, 04:46 PM
Nice Job!

Thanks Ray.




I actually just re-did mine and think I found a perfect solution.

I took 1/2" aluminum angle, cut 2 pieces to the length of the MOSFETs, applied thermal epoxy to them and the cooling brass tube so they were facing down. 1 side of the angle touched the MOSFETs and one side attached to the brass cooling tube.

Then I put the original aluminum plate across both of the sides, epoxied to it.

I should have taken some pictures during, but I didn't. Turns out to a REAL nice package and gives cooling to the other side of the MOSFETs as well rather than just the plate to equalize the temperature.


I like it. I was wondering how to avoid the motor wire solders and the two pieces of angle do that. I already have the 1/2" x 1/2" x 1/16" thick aluminum angle and just ordered the thermal adhesive.

I'm sure my heat issue was prop related, but since I had the ESC open anyway, it might as well put it back together better than it was originally. I'll post pics of the steps, but for now it's off to Orlando for a conference.

srislash
06-07-2014, 12:08 PM
Thanks Ray.





I like it. I was wondering how to avoid the motor wire solders and the two pieces of angle do that. I already have the 1/2" x 1/2" x 1/16" thick aluminum angle and just ordered the thermal adhesive.

I'm sure my heat issue was prop related, but since I had the ESC open anyway, it might as well put it back together better than it was originally. I'll post picks of the steps, but for now it's off to Orlando for a conference.
Nothing wrong with overbuilding. You guys have me thinking.

ray schrauwen
06-07-2014, 02:00 PM
Where di you buy the thermal epoxy from? Canada or USA?



Thanks Ray.





I like it. I was wondering how to avoid the motor wire solders and the two pieces of angle do that. I already have the 1/2" x 1/2" x 1/16" thick aluminum angle and just ordered the thermal adhesive.

I'm sure my heat issue was prop related, but since I had the ESC open anyway, it might as well put it back together better than it was originally. I'll post pics of the steps, but for now it's off to Orlando for a conference.

ray schrauwen
06-07-2014, 02:10 PM
Did you keep the original cooling tubes too or did you remove them or not use them?
Hard to tell from pictures.


I actually just re-did mine and think I found a perfect solution.

I took 1/2" aluminum angle, cut 2 pieces to the length of the MOSFETs, applied thermal epoxy to them and the cooling brass tube so they were facing down. 1 side of the angle touched the MOSFETs and one side attached to the brass cooling tube.

Then I put the original aluminum plate across both of the sides, epoxied to it.

I should have taken some pictures during, but I didn't. Turns out to a REAL nice package and gives cooling to the other side of the MOSFETs as well rather than just the plate to equalize the temperature.

Here's 2 pics of the finished product. The black stuff is liquid electrical tape for waterproofing.

116313
116314

oscarel
06-07-2014, 02:53 PM
I actually just re-did mine and think I found a perfect solution.

I took 1/2" aluminum angle, cut 2 pieces to the length of the MOSFETs, applied thermal epoxy to them and the cooling brass tube so they were facing down. 1 side of the angle touched the MOSFETs and one side attached to the brass cooling tube.

Then I put the original aluminum plate across both of the sides, epoxied to it.

I should have taken some pictures during, but I didn't. Turns out to a REAL nice package and gives cooling to the other side of the MOSFETs as well rather than just the plate to equalize the temperature.

Here's 2 pics of the finished product. The black stuff is liquid electrical tape for waterproofing.

116313
116314

I have 2 castle air controllers I just did this with. One was done with aluminum and the other with copper. Good results with the aluminum and will test the copper this week. Per this chart (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html)copper has twice the thermal transfer ability. ONLINEMETALS has good prices and was local and thermal epoxy http://www.ebay.com/itm/221378467457?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

rickwess
06-07-2014, 03:46 PM
Where di you buy the thermal epoxy from? Canada or USA?
Canada
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100013&cm_re=arctic_alumina-_-35-100-013-_-Product

rickwess
06-07-2014, 04:19 PM
Did y0u keep the original cooling tubes too or did you remove them or not use them?
Hard to tell from pictures.

Hi Ray. I took some pics before I left for the conference. I don't have the adhesive yet, but this is how it will look.

I used Plasti-Dip to insulate the exposed battery and motor wire solder joints. Then I did a slight grind on the cooling tubes to get a flat spot. The tubes are shaped like a hex on the outside and a corner was where the angle would attached to.

116374


The angles go on first then the original plate on top of those.
116375

116376

ray schrauwen
06-07-2014, 05:03 PM
Awesome, thanks!

ray schrauwen
06-07-2014, 05:10 PM
I used to be able to get plasti-dip at Canadian Tire but, a search came up almost blank..? My old clear stuff is coagulating.

rickwess
06-07-2014, 06:38 PM
I used to be able to get plasti-dip at Canadian Tire but, a search came up almost blank..? My old clear stuff is coagulating.
You can buy Plasti-Dip at Home Hardware. Also, most paint stores carry Xylene which can be used to thin out the out stuff that is turning into gel.

M3Man03
06-09-2014, 10:19 AM
Did you keep the original cooling tubes too or did you remove them or not use them?
Hard to tell from pictures.

Kept the original. The alumn angle is thermal epoxied to the brass cooling tubes.

M3Man03
06-09-2014, 10:19 AM
Hi Ray. I took some pics before I left for the conference. I don't have the adhesive yet, but this is how it will look.

I used Plasti-Dip to insulate the exposed battery and motor wire solder joints. Then I did a slight grind on the cooling tubes to get a flat spot. The tubes are shaped like a hex on the outside and a corner was where the angle would attached to.

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The angles go on first then the original plate on top of those.
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Yep this is exactly what mine looked like.

I've since attached a heatsink along the top of it as well to provide extra cooling when the water isn't flowing.

M3Man03
06-09-2014, 10:20 AM
Where di you buy the thermal epoxy from? Canada or USA?

I posted a link to some on Amazon above.

Look for stuff that they use to secure CPU's that is epoxy, not just thermal paste.

rickwess
07-06-2014, 10:48 AM
Ran the hydro this morning. I flipped it in a corner at the 50sec mark, paddled out to flip it over a ran it a bit longer. It looks like the ESC cooling mod is working wonders. Temps look to be plateauing at just over 50C at the FETs.

That's 15C cooler than before the mod despite my erratic throttle. Being at the end of a bay, it gets crowded with swim rafts and trampolines during the summer months. Need to find a dock further down the lake.


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ray schrauwen
07-06-2014, 11:04 AM
Sounds good Rick! I ran the SF200 Pro 8S esc in my Whip 40 for 4 test runs until I almost melted it down. After that I switched to the 240 and got a 3rd place in Michigan.

I now have the esc apart and have all the goodies to modify it. Got the thermal epoxy, thanks for the link... I've got an abundance of water cooled heatsink material thank to Doby.

I cut a piece the right size, cut out a center section for the center motor wire and then I'll epoxy it down today and heat shrink.

Any idea of how long this epoxy needs to cure??

I'm surprised it survived the 4 runs and on the last run one motor lead desoldered, finished the heat though!!

I have to scrape DP270 off the top of the 8 FETs though so the epoxy has better contact area.

After it's done I'll brutalize it again but, in the 40" mono on 6S2P as it has dual cooling and the Whip 40 doesn't yet.

I actually thermalled the 200 8S after 4.5 laps on my first run with a 55mm prop... second run esc came back at at least 150Degrees F. so these ain't crappy esc's if I can beat the snot out of it that bad.

Next up to try in a smaller boat is the SF220 pro.... I think I'll modify it first....

Thanks for the cool thread, literally!!

rickwess
07-06-2014, 11:31 AM
Glad I could be of help. Being an Engineer I can't leave enough alone and since I had the ESC apart anyway to dry it out, I figured why not try to improve the cooling.

I'm also impressed with the robustness of these ESCs. I've submerged one while powered up and this one in the hydro has been wet many times. It's taken me a while to figure out how to tape up the IB FE30 to stop the water from coming in.

The thermal epoxy is very much like JB Quick. You get less than 5 mins of working time and it looks to fully cure after couple of hours. I'd wait overnight before you run it, but you can start prepping it after 30mins.

Before I used heat shrink, I wrapped the ESC tight with electrical tape. That way the wires are bound nicely. If you have the ESC side of your water lines connected at the capacitor end, you'll be able to tape all the up can get the receiver wire as well as the caps nice and tight. In my case, if I have to remove the ESC, I'll just disconnect them from the motor. Oh ya, my cooling lines run a little different than most. I found it allowed me to use less water line and make them easier to hide.

Rudder----ESC----Motor----ESC----Outlet

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rickwess
07-06-2014, 11:37 AM
If you thermaled it at 150F, then for sure the FETs were quite a bit hotter. When my data logger showed max temp at 65C (150F), my thermal gun was only reading about 120F a the ESC body and caps. Thermal shutdown on these ESCs are 100C so there is still lots of headroom.

ray schrauwen
07-06-2014, 01:11 PM
The thing is it thermalled like it was supposed to unlike a few other esc's I've run that just detonate.

The FE30 is odd, my buddy has two and both always end up wet inside. My boats run dry except my PTSS which recently developed a small 1 ounce leak per 7 laps of running. I know where it's coming from.

Glad the epoxy is fast cure... Thanks again buddy.

rickwess
07-06-2014, 02:35 PM
I've run my FE30 dry 3 times in a row now. I think I have the taping mastered. The water comes in at the front where the two inside radii of the hatch are. I find that if I first tape parallel to that inside radius and have the tape long enough that it wraps under the sponson, it stays dry.

While I was experimenting with tape, i found that if I stuff 2 shop towels (paper towel kind) just under the front of the hatch opening, they absorb the water before it has a chance to slosh around.

Back to the ESC, I'm glad more people are liking it. It means Steve will keep stocking them. When I find time to work on the 54" Scarab, I'll definitely get a SF.

rickwess
07-12-2014, 10:23 AM
Here's the run on IB Mono - much heavier than the FE30. I was running a conservative m445. You can see that I brought it in twice to check for temps. Looks to be peaking at 68C at the FETs. That's only 7C cooler than the runs before the cooling mod.

I'm still not comfortable with how fast the temp drops as I'm bringing it in to check for temps. It's like I'm getting better water flow when it's going slower. Can prop wash cause that at higher RPMs? The drive dog is lined up with the leading edge of the rudder.

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ray schrauwen
07-12-2014, 11:19 AM
Do you use a cap bank? I just received a couple so I'll add that. I was able to add a water cooled plate on top. I'll up load pics later. That Arctic silver is slick, loving it! Most of my heat from the last race in MI came from a crushed stuffing tube from previous race. Right now I can't even put the flex cable in there!! I almost wore through the brass! Lots of repairs today and maybe test tomorrow...

rickwess
07-12-2014, 12:10 PM
I use a cap bank on the mono but not the hydro. See post #61 for the one I made.

Engelkefarm
07-14-2014, 02:36 PM
Im having same issues i think the swordfish are just crap

rickwess
07-15-2014, 08:32 AM
Im having same issues i think the swordfish are just crap
That's not my conclusion at all. I'm a boat NOOB and think I've abused them pretty well. So far they have held up.

crashland
07-18-2014, 10:10 PM
my rigger was running hot on auto timing, super hot at zero, but ran great at meduim timing neu 1415 4100kv 3 cells

ray schrauwen
07-25-2014, 07:35 PM
Ran the Q-sport today on 6S2P and the SF200 8S esc. Timing set to 10 degrees, 3.2v cutoff and it almost stalled on the taxi lap and then after about 5-6 laps (hard to remember because some goof kept cackling in my ear that I was cutting buoys, no Sh!t sherlock I was at ground level and just testing) it shut down, I would say premature LVC since I waited a few seconds and then I could drive it in to shore. Temps were around 120 all around, new heatsink plus other rudder cooling mods helped a LOT.

So, I'm back home and reprogrammed it back to defaults except for timing set at 10*. Default factory cutoff is 5Vdc and or 3.0V/Cell so, I'll try that at the race tomorrow. As long as the timing is at 10* I can change what I want wwith the box out in the field.

I need a small laptop and possibly the XT-150's are not cutting the mustard. No connector issues this time though.

I did add an Etti cap bank and this is what the esc looks like now...

I think I'll use the SF240 instead and it's set to the same settings now as the 200.

rickwess
07-27-2014, 01:00 PM
Here's yesterday's run on the FE30 (TP4050 2220kv, 4S, m445). I think it's time to prop up just a little. Maybe a m447.

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rickwess
09-27-2014, 06:58 PM
Added a cap bank to the set-up now (4x (2x 470uf in series) in parallel) and am happy with the temps. Max was 52.8C. I was my typical terrible driver self and was on and off the throttle hard. You can see on the temp graph where I rolled it twice going over it's own wake.

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I'm not convinced I have the strut set-up 100%. To be honest I'm not sure what to look for. Today I could hear the pulsing sound of the prop slapping the water then it smoothed out when it hit top speed. Perhaps it's more of a CoG issue and I need to move it back a little. It does bite in hard when cornering to the point where it looks likes it going to flip over.

I suppose it's the downside of always running the boats by myself.........no one else to provide advice.