Electric HHO Boat - Is it Electric?

[Meniscus]

Alright, I know that a lot of us here have probably seen the HHO craze. If you haven't, look it up (distilled water + electric power + electrolyzer = byproduct Hydrogen off of negative lead and Oxygen off of positive lead).

So here lies the question. If I was to pickup a BJ hull, insert some canisters for water, run off of batteries, and basically create jet fuel for the thrust...Is it technically an electric boat?

I'm leaning towards the BJ hull due to the cat design and stability on the water. I know that there are going to be those out there that will suggest that another hull might be good, but remember that I will need A LOT of the internal space for the HHO generator.

I'm thinking something along the size of 35mm film canisters to hold the water (probably 6 or 8 in total. Or I could use a square tupperware.

I plan on being able to adjust the production (throttle) by using a variable capacitor (mechanical from way back when that at one time were used in old radios) and using a servo to move. I've got several sitting around from old ham radio stuff.

Similar to this:
http://www.mtmscientific.com/cap3.jpg

Anyway, I wanted some input on the project and also, the collective determination whether or not this would be an electric boat.

[Eodman]

Say What?????

Why not filter the water you are running in? Less weight NO?

I admit I have no freakin clue!

Not knowing how tall the interior of the Bj is ... perhaps a Mean machine would be a good choice also - it's 11 inches wide!

[Meniscus]

Yeah, it would be nice to use the water that is coming in, but that implies that the water is going out and I don't want to lose the production of the Hydrogen and Oxygen. Does that make sense?

I'm not sure that I would need the extra width, unless you're giving up your hull! LOL

[Ub Hauled]

I think it would be technically an electric boat but probably not NAMBA/IMPBA approved due to the conversion... with that being said, two things:
what are the power specs for that puppy and
where can I get one!?:tongue_smilie:

[Darin Jordan]

I'm skeptical as to whether you'll be able to generate enough jet thrust to get the hull onto a plane and still have it be drivable.

However, I'm intriqued by the technology you've been talking about...

Perhaps if you could figure out a way to use the jet thrust to turn a turbine and spin a prop it might work better???

Then again, they do have airboats... so perhaps it would work...

Only one way to find out! Let us know how it works out! ;)

[Spot Me 2]

:iagree:
But I really have no idea.
I do know that if you get it working????:flashfire: , I want to see VIDS!!!!!!:tongue_smilie:

[Meniscus]

No power specs. The basic concept of creating a HHO generator is, you apply power + and - of two different conductors in close proximity. This breaks the H2O molecules into Hydrogen and Oxygen.

This mechanical variable capacitor has two different sections. Each section has a set of metal fins. The set on the bottom is stationary and the other one (appears at an angle) rotates to be flush with the other at the bottom. So, along those lines, if a servo is placed on this cylinder, you could essentially create a throttle for the production of the Hydrogen and Oxygen. The more surface area in close proximity, the more production.

I hope that was a good explanation and it made sense!

Warning Kids, Don't Try This At Home! It could blowup with any ignition source!
My recommendation? DO NOT STORE ANY OF THE GAS! Use only as on demand source.

[Meniscus]

As a side note, this article just came out related to chemical source instead of batteries. I'll leave that method to the MIT types!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/jul/31/energyefficiency.energy

[Meniscus]

hmmmmmm.....turbine

Now to reduce the number of moving parts and chance of improper ignition...

I have some other ideas, but nothing completely thought through for drive systems.

Keep the suggestions coming!

[eboat]

I have tried the splitting of the water into H and O
I used a car 12volt battery and stainlless steel plates (4 layers with spacers so they do not touch electricly) with everyother plate pos neg
I had it in a 2L pop bottle with baking soda in the water ( you need an electrolite in the water for it to work better) It worked
I hooked it up to our garden tractor ( put the hose from the pop bottle right into the carburator) and you could hear the motor speed up when you turned it on
I even turned the tractor gas off and it kept going for a short time but finally stopped ( if I had two set ups it might keep running)

Two observations I had

It takes alot of electric power to do this ( the battery was dead before too long)
When the gas was being formed it did not make alot of pressure

So if you were going to try this in a boat you will go alot farther using the power from the same battery to run an electric motor that spitting water

Unsure if you were thinking the gas would come out fast enough to push your boat ( it will not from what I have seen) or you were going to burn it in a nitro motor or turbine ( you still have to charge the battery)

Just my observations from a backyard mad scientist

[Ub Hauled]

I see... not quite there yet as far as RC goes... but
How do they do it? (http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/)

[eboat]

I see... not quite there yet as far as RC goes... but
How do they do it? (http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/)

Looks like in the fuel cell (from Honda)they said it combines H2 and O2 to get electricity
There must be a way to get electricity off this chemical reaction when it happens instead of heat ??? just a guess

[Meniscus]

Yeah, I've tried all types of materials, arrangements, etc. and I add baking soda as well as a little peroxide (for cleaning).

The issue related to battery drain is a direct result of the load that you are putting on it. For instance, if you use wire, you have more surface area for the equivalent amount of material , less resistance, etc. These small fins on the variable capacitor made of aluminum seem to have the best balance of corrosion, production, batt drain, etc. Of course, wire would be the way to go if you could keep separate, keep the current flowing through the wire (no coils touching), and density within the water. The problem with the wire is that it usually has to be replaced more often, you run the risk of the polarity touching due to vibration, and it is sooooooo time consuming feeding wire through a frame (speaking from experience). Plus I can do the servo for throttle with the variable capacitor. I know that someone out there is saying, this guy (me) doesn't get it, he should just.....

I've run off of various rc batteries and have had very little drain (10-12 mins or so to drop 20%)

So far as the thrust, I'm not counting on the pressure. In fact, I'd like to setup with a vacuum. But nonetheless, I plan on burning the HHO molecules.

I'll probably make sure that the hatch can blow off and like Spot said above, I'll definitely have the video camera running all the time!!! ;)

[Meniscus]

Thinking...

If I go with a Turbine, why not let it be a generator at the same time and feed back to the electrolyzer?

hmmmmmm.....

[eboat]

It will be interesting to see what you will come up with :)

[eboat]

Thinking...

If I go with a Turbine, why not let it be a generator at the same time and feed back to the electrolyzer?

hmmmmmm.....

but how much energy will it take to run the generator and still have something left to move the boat ????

[Meniscus]

I'm glad you still have all of your fingers after playing with HHO around your tractor!

:rofl:

[Meniscus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm thinking that if you create a electro magnet via coils around the turbine, then you would generate voltage. Basically the opposite of what we are used to thinking.

Sorry no picture depiction.

[Meniscus]

In case it is still unclear how the variable capacitor works or how much production is generated with this systems, check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36v355qu7QY

[eboat]

To vary the gas output would it not be easier and less moving parts just to vary the amount of volts that gets put into gas generator ?
Thinking about the rc stuff just use an esc to vary the voltage to the motor(or generator)

[Meniscus]

My main concern is to ensure that there is no excess production, because...you know :flashfire:

I believe that there would be a lot of lag time if you did it with regulating the power. I'm sure that there is going to be around a one second delay or so already.


Well, I guess I'm looking for a turbine. Anyone have any experience with this or can make a recommendation? The closest experience I have to a turbine is either a ducted fan or a turbo on a car. :help:

[Ub Hauled]

there are a lot of videos on youtube on hydros with turbines... there is one that is pretty fast...40's maybe... they are pretty big boats since the turbines that can generate enough power are a bit heftier.

[Meniscus]

I've viewed an few. Not being a plane guy, I don't have the experience with the turbines. Anyone care to chime in on a possible product or line that may serve my purposes?

Also, I completely understand that the boat wouldn't meet the guidelines to be raced. What does everyone think? Electric? Not? :confused2:

[eboat]

What does everyone think? Electric? Not? :confused2:[/QUOTE]

Not electric
You might be using electric to produce your fuel BUT you will still be burning it some how in a combustion engine :tongue_smilie:

[Meniscus]

Point noted.

Aw man, does that mean I have to take this thread elsewhere???

It is clean though, byproduct is H20 :thumbup1:

[Ub Hauled]

Several links here:
http://www.waoline.com/detente/hobby/Links/MicroTurbineLinks.htm

I like this one:
http://www.jetcatusa.com/

[Dr. Jet]

Fascinating idea, but there is a shortcoming. Energy you put into a system (your battery's charge) will always be more than energy out of that system (thrust) due to mechanical losses and heat. This is true for any system, since no one has ever built a 100% efficient machine.

So you take the battery's energy and create O2 and H2. Already you have some losses to heat and inefficiencies. Then you burn the O2 and H2 in a turbine (or a rocket motor). Again, you have some mechanical and heat losses. Then you have a gearbox for that 100,000 rpm turbine. More mechanical losses and heat.

I'm not saying it won't work; rather I am saying it will be a less efficient use of energy. You can never get more energy out of a system than you put in (unless you start splitting atoms, but that is another type of physics).

It seems that the most efficient use of stored electrical energy (your batteries) is to turn a brushless motor connected directly to a propeller. Some of those motors approach 95% efficiency.

Now if you want to mix some C-Stuff and T-Stuff (hydrogen peroxide and sodium permanganate) in a small reactor chamber using your electric motors to pump the two fluids, you may have something that goes really, REALLY, fast. Be careful though, it may be a bit more dangerous than your LiPos.:eek:
:flashfire:

[Meniscus]

Ub Hauled, thanks for the links. It will take some time to review!

[Meniscus]

Dr. Jet,

I completely understand the losses. It is just an idea I had, not saying its good, but I haven't seen anyone else try, so I might as well try!

Now on your idea...please be careful throwing ideas out like that, the kids might be reading and no one wants that liability!!! LOL!

Intriguing concept, I may have to try. However, I am the first one to realize when I'm over my head and pushing my lips up to the surface right before I go down. On second thought, I think I'll have to leave that concept to someone else...I like all ten of my fingers, not to mention my nose!

[Meniscus]

OK, I'm not saying that it won't work, but I've done some calculations and it doesn't look good immediately.

I guess this project will have to be on hold until someone is willing to give up an old turbine! Meanwhile, I'm going to keep looking for some injectors that may be more feasible.

Thanks for the input everyone! If anyone knows anyone else doing this, LET ME KNOW! I'll share my experiences and maybe through collaboration, it can become a reality.