Help I Need More Cheap Speed

[AMG4ME]

Hey All,

First I would like to say that this site has been absolutly awsome for information. Members are great and everyone seems to love to share good info. I try to buy anything I can off OSE because of it.

Now comes the question: I need more cheap speed (More Speed without Replacing ESC/Motor)

What I have: Revolt 30
Grimm 4s 5000Mah Batteries All the way to the back
OSE Sharpened and Balanced/Thinned Octura x642
I have not put in but have the OSE bearing and shaft but I have it here.
Turn Fins up and angled forward
I have not touched anything else... ie trim tabs, strut
Ran 37.40 with Iphone GPS in the boat... lol (Compared to numbers I see around the site this seems really slow)

This is my first boat and I am a newbie for boats... I have a few Helicopters (Genius CP, MSR, Nine Eagles) but not a lot of that stuff transfers well.

Any recomendations? Pictures are help if they are handy to post.

[Fluid]

Two things will get you more "cheap" speed. Set the hull up to run loose, on the back part of the hull. This reduces drag and gives free speed - but will make the boat more liable to blow over. Second is another prop. While yours may work okay, club members have gotten into the mid 40s with an m445.

All the power in an FE boat is in the packs, and better packs mean more speed. Yours may be fine, or not. You can scuff the hull bottom in contact with the water to reduce drag a big more. Next it's $$$.


.

[Mike Caruso]

Hey All,

First I would like to say that this site has been absolutly awsome for information. Members are great and everyone seems to love to share good info. I try to buy anything I can off OSE because of it.

Now comes the question: I need more cheap speed (More Speed without Replacing ESC/Motor)

What I have: Revolt 30
Grimm 4s 5000Mah Batteries All the way to the back
OSE Sharpened and Balanced/Thinned Octura x642
I have not put in but have the OSE bearing and shaft but I have it here.
Turn Fins up and angled forward
I have not touched anything else... ie trim tabs, strut
Ran 37.40 with Iphone GPS in the boat... lol (Compared to numbers I see around the site this seems really slow)

This is my first boat and I am a newbie for boats... I have a few Helicopters (Genius CP, MSR, Nine Eagles) but not a lot of that stuff transfers well.

Any recomendations? Pictures are help if they are handy to post.

More Cheap Speed could it be as easy as an adjustment?

If using Tactic Radio you have to set it up like the instructions say or all you will see is 37.5 to 38.5 mph. Happened to me I had just run 48.7 mph the day before and the fastest it would go the next day was 38.5 mph same water, wind everything. I was going nuts.....went home read instructions again. The next day tossed it in the water 45 mph right away.
I just got back from running my Revolt today and tried a M-645 prop. Runs the fastest yet but everything was real-hot BUT!!!! I figured it out WHY .........I was adding LEFT rudder trim and it limits the water to the rudder pickup hole. I'll fix that. One other thing I tried was a 120 ESC with 11.5 timing close to the stock AQ 60 ESC for mph might have been the extra heat in the motor and esc.
Good luck.
Mike

[AMG4ME]

Hey Fluid thanks... can you recomend a good pack and I am not sure about how to set up the boat to run loose but maybe I will take another good look at the rest of the topics to get some hints.

Mike.... I have read a couple of your other posts that mentioned that and I am wondering if that is my biggest culprit right now. I am going to go through the manual again and try to see if that helps. Its funny too cause when I read that post a couple of weeks ago it really set something off in my mind but I went ahead and ignored it and now that you re emphasized it I think I am going to try that first.

I might get it out in the harbour tomorrow night and see if I can rebind and set up my txt again and try to play with the trim tabs to maybe get the bow up a bit more to have less boat in the water. I hope this is the correct idea. Again thanks for all the help I really want to beat my friends Impulse 31 but right now he has me good.

[Mike Caruso]

If its a Tactic Radio you buddy's 31 is in trouble tomorrow. It made me really nuts after boating for many years to just loose 10 mph??????? Only prop my boat does not like is M-545 I thinned the blades sharp as can be. Ran its bigger brother M-645 and its a the fastest on my boat yet. I have install my Eagle Tree again and get the numbers. (wants to swap ends) The transom moves left to right bad at top speed I am sure a different prop depth would help. Running for fun and speed but I am finding out which props work good at the same depth setting. Next I have to shim the strut mount (change thrust angle) so the boat runs true and the rudder will be centered. Sick of right hand turns when it should be running straight. Good luck tomorrow.
Mike

[AMG4ME]

Ok it seems like i am binding my txt correctly but I may have the settings wrong... I have two questions:

1. Once you have binded the txt to the reciver do you turn the throttle trim up after or leave it at the same point?

2. Can anyone take a picture of thier txt of the trim and throttle and (N-R) settings as they are when they bind it so that I can set it up the same way. I know this is a pain but after your post Mike I really believe that my lack of speed is comming from the way I am setting up the txt. Although if I am wrong I am going to be frustrated ... lol.

[Cinnabun]

Whats this TX/RX setup stuff I'm reading about?

I'm not running the tactic, I'm running a Spektrum setup. Is this something I need to worry about? My revolt did 38mph with a single 4s pack and a 440/3, fins all the way up and haven't touched the trim tabs or strut. I saw 37.5-38.5 comment and was wondering if I may be falling into this issue because no matter what prop I use it does 38ish mph.

[Mike Caruso]

Ok it seems like i am binding my txt correctly but I may have the settings wrong... I have two questions:

1. Once you have binded the txt to the reciver do you turn the throttle trim up after or leave it at the same point?

2. Can anyone take a picture of thier txt of the trim and throttle and (N-R) settings as they are when they bind it so that I can set it up the same way. I know this is a pain but after your post Mike I really believe that my lack of speed is comming from the way I am setting up the txt. Although if I am wrong I am going to be frustrated ... lol.

Its easy Just as the directions say point the (throttle) trim at 2 o'clock and leave it alone....... I made that goof too.

[Mike Caruso]

Whats this TX/RX setup stuff I'm reading about?

I'm not running the tactic, I'm running a Spektrum setup. Is this something I need to worry about? My revolt did 38mph with a single 4s pack and a 440/3, fins all the way up and haven't touched the trim tabs or strut. I saw 37.5-38.5 comment and was wondering if I may be falling into this issue because no matter what prop I use it does 38ish mph.

No Tatic Radio's only. Just make sure you are at 100% throttle.

[AMG4ME]

Its easy Just as the directions say point the (throttle) trim at 2 o'clock and leave it alone....... I made that goof too.

My radio won't bind until its down to about 4-5 o'clock... I think that is why I am so confused. It won't beep at 2 o'clock then I turn it down to about 4-5 and it will beep. What does the (N-R) switch... does that effect anything? Does it need to be in one or the other? Doesn't say much about that in boat manual and it doesn't really go to much detail in the radio manual.

I feel like i must be doing something wrong because if you can hit 52 MPH with a similar set up and I can't seem to hit 40MPH that seems like a big difference. Thats close to a 38% difference in speed.

[fox88gt]

You will see nice gains in speed by adjusting the strut upwards. The Revolt is a V hull so its hard to go "too far" trimming up unless you are running into a strong headwind (yep, i blew mine over running too much trim into the wind). Just like a real boat, the drive needs to be trimmed up to carry the bow up and out of the water, reducing the wetted surface on the hull. Air offers much less resistance than water, so the less area of the hull dragging through the water, the faster the boat will go. Have fun! You're in the right place!

Jeff

[AMG4ME]

Thanks Fox I might try putting up the strut a hair and maybe adjusting the trim tabs up some more.

Mike I just did the speed calculator and apparently I am not that far off at 38... it calculated me at 40 mph with my prop. I am not sure what you did to achieve your speeds but I sure would like a small chunck more so I can run with my buddy's impulse 31. Stock he GPS's his at 47MPH.

[Phoebe]

Suggest you guys give the stock Impulse Prop on your Revolts. I get 7 or 8 minutes run time, flat out, at 46 mph.

[Mike Caruso]

TURN ON YOUR TRANSMITTER.
Set the Throttle Trim to negative (clockwise if you have a dial)
25%.
If your radio has end point adjustments, check to see that your
(EPA) is set to 100% both forward and reverse throttle trigger.
Then plug the batteries into the motor controller. At this time you
will hear one beep letting you know battery power is working to
the controller. To arm the system, squeeze the throttle trigger
fully and hold until you hear one more beep. Release the throttle
trigger and you will hear three more beeps. Your boat is now
ready to operate.
Note: You will have to go through this simple arming procedure
each time to run your boat.
If your boat does not beep after plugging in the batteries, adjust
your throttle trim lower “a lesser percentage” until you hear the
boat beep. Then continue the arming process.
������������
Plug in the packs
Squeeze the throttle trigger and hold
Release the trigger
«Beep»
«Beep»
«Beep-Beep-Beep»
Your boat is now ready to operate!
NOTE: Before or after the above, IF your boat’s power system emits
consecutive beeps, your throttle trim will likely need to be reversed.

Right off AQ web page.
Mike

[AMG4ME]

Tryed the boat in the harbour last night... its not the txt... the boat is slow.... bummer. Could have sworn I would have been able to get a bit more than what I did. Gonna try raising the strut a hair and the tabs and see what happens.

[Mike Caruso]

Sorry to hear that.

[chrispycontrol]

I raised my strut maybe 1-2mm and I noticed a nice jump in speed.
And I have everything sharpened to kitchen knife status
gps last night 43.6 with stock prop.
gens ace 2s 5000mah 40c x2

[Mike Caruso]

I raised my strut maybe 1-2mm and I noticed a nice jump in speed.
And I have everything sharpened to kitchen knife status
gps last night 43.6 with stock prop.
gens ace 2s 5000mah 40c x2

Good for you!

[AMG4ME]

Wow really... i am getting really frustrated now... I think I must have the slowest boat out there...

[Bduncan]

Try ose 47 mm carbon prop trimmed all the way up. Run dual watercooling and try ahort runs

[skeeler]

Stupid newbie question: When adjusting the strut, it seems like you have to bend the stuffing tube. Is that correct? Is there a risk of fatiguing the tube and having it fail on you?

Thanks.

[skeeler]

Stupid newbie question: When adjusting the strut, it seems like you have to bend the stuffing tube. Is that correct? Is there a risk of fatiguing the tube and having it fail on you?

Thanks.

[Bduncan]

I have never had a problem with stuffing tube when adjusting
The strut. Water test in bath tub. Use loctite on coupler on this boat. Famous
For coming loose shaft falling out and ruining your day

[Bduncan]

For speed run adjust turn fins up alot ( away from the water ). Boat still turns well

[Mike Caruso]

Stupid newbie question: When adjusting the strut, it seems like you have to bend the stuffing tube. Is that correct? Is there a risk of fatiguing the tube and having it fail on you?

Thanks.

Just make it parallel with the hull bottom and run it there. I will measure mine tonight. (8.21.2013 hull on flat surface measured up to the center of strut hole .400") Look at Revolt Redone it has a great shot of strut height.

[Mike Caruso]

(8.21.2013 Place hull on flat surface remove prop and shaft. Now measured from the flat surface up to the center of strut hole mine is @ .400")

[AustinWolv]

No Tatic Radio's only. Just make sure you are at 100% throttle.

Can you please elaborate here?

I'm running the same starting setup as many in this thread it appears.

Stock Revolt motor, ESC
(2) 2S 5000mAh Turnigy NanoTechs - set for 30% COG
X642 S&B
Turn fins all the way up and angled forward (still turns on a dime, doesn't slip)
Left outboard trim tab angled down just a touch in attempt to offset the right pull the boat has (had to still trim rudder quite a bit left to keep it straight)
No adjustment to strut.
Rudder sharpened.
Using Spektrum MR200 and DX3C.
Garmin Forerunner 101

My GPS said 45mph one day using the stock prop. Never seen that again.
Another day it said 30mph.
Today it read 35mph on one run, a little less than that on another run.
On yet another day, it was low 30s on one run and then re-armed the ESC on the next pack as expected and it hit 40mph.

No major differences in water surface/chop. Pretty darn smooth to very light wind ripple.

When I plug in my packs with radio throttle trim set middle, it beeps about every 1 second. I unplug, adjust throttle trim down one click at a time, then plug back in. Keep doing that until the stock ESC does the single beep thing, then I pull full throttle until it beeps again, then let it out to neutral, where the ESC completes the arming sequence beeping.

To me, either those Turnigy batteries kind of suck (individual cell voltages don't support this, but I'm no expert) or the ESC isn't setting up right. I have 4 packs of the 2S Turnigy Nanos and 1 pair of Hyperion 2S 5000mAh. I have yet to try the Hyperion due to time but will be hopefully later this week.


(8.21.2013 Place hull on flat surface remove prop and shaft. Now measured from the flat surface up to the center of strut hole mine is @ .400")
Checked this a week ago or so and pretty sure mine is the same. I'll double-check again.

What am I missing?

[rickwess]

The variations in top speed are most likely due to the throttle calibration you need to do every time you power on.

I'm using the DX3S with an MR200 in my Revolt (it's for sale in the swap shop!!) and never had to mess with the throttle trim to get the stock ESC to calibrate. I changed out to a SK 120A early on, for a few reasons, so I don't have a whole lot of experience with the stock ESC though.

[AustinWolv]

Hi Rick, saw your Revolt on the swap, nice-looking package!

Just don't trust the stock ESC with that re-arm thing.

So you had your throttle trim set to middle and it would arm?
If so, I'm going to start over and rebind the MR200 to the radio and try setting it all up again.
As it stands now, the throttle trim has to be set about -5 to get it to arm.

I have a Seaking 180A that I got randomly for a good price that I'm thinking about swapping into the boat just for the hell of it, as the re-arming thing on every pack change for the stock ESC kind of sucks, not to mention that I can set the LVC on the Seaking to what I want. I time my runs anyway to drop to about 3.6-3.7v on each cell, but having the backup feel-good LVC on the Seaking doesn't hurt.

I'll mess with it tonight and see.

[Bduncan]

Try callibtating throttle. hook up the motor, receiver and esc.
turn on the radio and the receiver (if you are using a seperate receiver battery. (you should be)) (if not, just continue to the next line with the transmitter turned on.)
pull the trigger to full throttle and while holding it there connect your lipo battery up to the ESC.
you should hear APROX. 3 beeps, then IMEDIATELY release the trigger and you should hear a confirmation beep.
unplug the lipos from your ESC and you are done calibrating the throttle.

[AustinWolv]

Bduncan, that sounds like the Seaking ESC calibration, not the stock Aquacraft ESC arming/calibration.

http://www.hobbywing.com/uploadfiles/sx/file/manual/HW-15.pdf

versus

http://manuals.hobbico.com/aqu/aqub24-25-manual.pdf

Please verify.

[rickwess]

So you had your throttle trim set to middle and it would arm?
I never had to mess with the trim on the Radio.

[Bduncan]

My bad

[AustinWolv]

I never had to mess with the trim on the Radio.

Good piece of info, thanks. I'll mess with it tonight.

I wonder if this comes into play from the manual:
NOTE: Before or after the above, IF your boat’s power system emits
consecutive beeps, your throttle trim will likely need to be reversed.

Mine does the constant 1sec beep pattern at middle/0 trim, so after rebind, I'll try setting radio to middle, seeing what happens, and if it beeps like that again, I'll try reversing the throttle trim to see what happens.

[rickwess]

Let me know how it works out.

When you get frustrated, see if you can get a SK 120A cheap. The SK 180A is overkill and you'll have trouble finding a good spot for it that doesn't interfere with battery placement.

[AustinWolv]

Reversing throttle setting didn't work.

Set it up again.........acts the same way. Fully charged packs. Have to set throttle trim 3 notches down from middle/zero. Obviously haven't tested it on the water yet.

[rickwess]

I'm not sure what to say or how to help. If I can break away from work tomorrow I can plug the stock ESC (it for sale too) into my Revolt and go through the set-up. We're both using Spectrum so it would be a good sanity check.

[AustinWolv]

Thanks rick. I'm hoping to hit the water after work tomorrow so hopefully another data point.

[Bduncan]

I found the stock receivers on the revolt to be less than desirable

[AustinWolv]

The stock Tactic Rx is on Ebay. ;)
I've only been using a MR200 in mine, as I didn't want a bunch of radios for different boats.....just the Spektrum for all of them.

[Mike Caruso]

Reversing throttle setting didn't work.

Set it up again.........acts the same way. Fully charged packs. Have to set throttle trim 3 notches down from middle/zero. Obviously haven't tested it on the water yet.

I have two Tatic radio's and both need the Throttle Trim set at 2 o'clock for 100% throttle.

[AustinWolv]

Thanks Mike, I'm using Spektrum DX3C with Spektrum MR200. Going to double-check the arming and then set trim to middle (100%) after arming, hopefully on the water after work and see what happens.

[rickwess]

I'm not sure how much this will be. I just tried my AQ ESC with my Spektrum DX3S and MR200. Using a pack at storage level, I was able to get it to arm properly regardless of my throttle trim setting. I tried 0, B50 and a few in between.

To reiterate the manual:

- Plug in the packs «Beep»
- Squeeze the throttle trigger and hold «Beep»
- Release the trigger «Beep-Beep-Beep»
- Your boat is now ready to operate!

Since you are having issue with top speed, try this:

- set your throttel travel at neutral
- use what ever throttle trim setting to get the ESC to arm
- set your throttle travel to 120%

[AustinWolv]

Rick, I appreciate you taking the time to post and compare.

Ok, hit a lake on the way home. Heavier chop than usual so the Revolt was really bouncing around. Wind was sustained 10mph, gusting 20-some.

Had to set trim -3 to arm. Exact setup as rick outlined.

Then moved trim up to 0 and then +18 (118%) to just below where the prop was spinning.

Runs were back to back, no changes to boat except to change out the packs.

Nanotechs - 36.x mph
Hyperions - 40.1mph

Nanotech temps were in the 110-115degF range, motor and ESC no more than 90 as I recall.
Hyperion temps were considerably lower.....in the 90s, motor and ESC were high 80s.

Boat was definitely not running wet. Only rear of the hull was in the water when heading downwind. Was about 50-75% throttle upwind, as it was too rough for full out.

Chop was slowing things up for sure at times as boat was clearing the water sometimes. Heading upwind, she actually submarined a couple times and caught air, but I got lucky and didn't flip her. Near the end of the 2nd run, the servo mount broke loose so have to epoxy that guy back in place and will run again in a couple days hopefully in calmer water.

Starting to suspect I got one of the lower-performance 1800kv motors........

Anyway, interesting that there was 4mph between the packs.

[rickwess]

40mph isn't bad in large chop.

It you have access to a m445 or m545, I would try those before you do anything else.

[AustinWolv]

40mph isn't bad in large chop.

It you have access to a m445 or m545, I would try those before you do anything else.

Chop -> that was my thought too, so I want to get it on calm water again before making any moves.

M prop -> I do have a S&B M445, so will run that comparison the next time out also.

[rickwess]

Then moved trim up to 0 and then +18 (118%) to just below where the prop was spinning.
Next time, don't adjust the throttle trim after you arm it. Change your throttle travel to 120%. It's in one of the sub menus.

[AustinWolv]

Ah, I follow now. Misread your earlier post . Thanks

[AustinWolv]

This might well be a battery issue.

I say that because I ran my BJ29 today with 5S (Nano 2S + Nano 3S), and it was eh. I then put in two 2S Hyperions for 4S.......wow. The boat was flying and I actually had a blowover. The BJ29 was the kind of performance I expected out of FEs......it has a 1900kv with M445, and it was moving.....couldn't GPS it because the batteries on my GPS died, but plan to tomorrow morning. Once I brought it in, I put in two 2S Nanos and the speed was horrible -> WOT and no worry about any sort of blowover or worries about handling because the boat was slow as hell.

I've got some 4S' now that I need to switch connectors out on and then I'll test the Revolt again, as well as run the Hyperions again in it, but it appears the 2S Nanos I was using in it are crap.

[AustinWolv]

Follow-up on this, got 4 good runs in today.

Throttle travel at 100%. Light chop. Strut centerline is 0.43" up from very bottom of hull best I can measure. Turn fins all the way back and all the way up. Trim tabs are neutral or maybe up just a touch. Battery is pretty far back, not touching the motor, but maybe 1/2" short of it. Light radius on rudder and sharpened.

M445 S&B with Dinogy 4S - 42.9mph (motor temp 90deg, ESC caps 105, battery 115)
X642 S&B with Dinogy 4S - 41.7mph (motor temp88, ESC caps 90, battery 110)
X642 S&B with Nanotech 4S - 40.0mph (motor 90, ESC caps 90, battery 105)
M445 S&B with Nanotech 4S - 40.4mph (motor 90, ESC 85-90, battery 115)

X642 was a bit more planted and very smooth. The M445 made the boat feel a little more loose and experienced a touch of chine walking.

Those other Nano 2Ss in series I mentioned earlier in the thread weren't putting out correctly.

Now to play with setup a little more and try to squeeze out a bit more speed.


http://youtu.be/qq_pUwxcawI

[AustinWolv]

Changed the setup slightly on the Revolt.
-Shimmed the strut mount on the right side to get some deviation so thrust would move the bow left in order to run the rudder more straight instead of kicked over with left trim.
-Moved the strut back down and about 0.4" off the very bottom of the hull
-Move the battery back to just short of touching the motor
-Trim tabs neutral

Using M445 S&B this morning on smooth water, hit 48.1mph on stock motor, ESC, and 4S 4000mAh Dinogy. I'll take it. :thumbup1:

Boat was a bit squirrely as it was riding on the very end the hull, so any wake or small waves would make it start chine walking, but otherwise, it actually rode very well on smooth water.

It was nice to not have so much left trim on the radio, and boat was running very straight at full speed.
Turn fins are still all the way up and angled back fully.

Also ran a X642 S&B again immediately on the next run and the boat runs noticeably wetter and slower.......low 40s, so it handles much easier of course. But the battery temp was much higher after the X642 run compared to the M445 run.

The boat definitely likes the 45mm prop better.

Next to do:
-Adjust inner trim tabs down just a touch to settle the hull down just a bit
-Scuff hull
-Probably will buy M645 S&B and see how the hull responds
-Keep on testing!

[rickwess]

I'm glad it's working better now. The m645 is probably too much prop. My Revolt's sweet spot was with the m545.

[AustinWolv]

Hi Rick, did you thin your 545 out also as others have mentioned or just S&B?

Thanks for helping out!

[skeeler]

My Revolt's sweet spot was with the m545.

Was that on stock ESC and motor and 4S battery?

[rickwess]

I did thin it out quite a bit.

It's was with the stock motor. The 2030kv motor was running a little hot with the m545 so I just ran with the m445 most of the time.

[skeeler]

Thanks. I've been running the x642, but I may try out the m445 or m545 now. I have the stock electronics, and I use 5450-mAh batts.

[GixerGuy1978]

Any quicker with the 2030/M445 setup, compared to the 1800/M545 ????

[Mike Caruso]

Great job!!!! Proves to me Grim 4s Battery for $150.00 was worth it for me.