Pre-preg carbon self righting Titan 29 build

[Bigbore]

I want to show you what I have made with my old Titan 29. I've made my own molds to replicate the hull with pre-preg carbon fiber polymerized in autoclave at 130 °C (266 °F) and 5 bar of pressure and while I was making the molds I've made some modifications.
First of all I want a self righting mono to run it in the choppy open sea where it capsizes often so I have added a flooding chamber, second it have to be very strong to bash the hell out of it.
Other upgrades are the possibility to have a monocoque hull if the flooding chamber is not needed and also the hull is ready for sub hatch just out of the mold.
I do not have autoclave at home but I’m so lucky to have a friend of mine involved in real motorbike carbon parts that has it.
This is a monocoque hull made from him to show it at the meetings they have some time. It’s carbon fiber sprayed with automotive transparent.

[Bigbore]

This is my hull just out of the molds for the future self righting feature. It's made with a layer of black gell coat over the carbon fiber at the bottom and only carbon fiber on the top.

[Bigbore]

Adding flooding chamber......

[Heaving Earth]

Oooo I'm following this one!

[Cooper]

Yes I'm liking this too, just built a delta force 41 with chamber to run in rough water. I'm now addicted to monos and flood chambers for fun running. Will be following this, looks good so far!!

[Bigbore]

Upper and lower part of the hull glued together. The boat is ready for the hardware.
I’m going to run this baby on 4S in rough water and on 5S at the lake on calm water.
The setup will be the following:
Motor: Leopard 4092 1600kv
ESC: Turnigy 180A
Shaft: 2mm (0.078”) wire drive with 3/16” prop shaft
Speedmaster stinger with custom made prop-saver, Speedmaster 21 rudder, custom carbon trim tabs and custom carbon turn fins
@ Cooper I have subscribed your Deltaforce with chamber thread and I'm reading it

103479103480103481103482

[larryrose11]

subscribed.
Later on I would like to talk to you about making molds and such.
Great work!

[Mike Caruso]

Nice job

[Bigbore]

@ larryrose11 your welcome to ask question about making molds
I will be using the water cooled motor mount with rear support for long motors and the motor will be installed in front of the batteries with a pair of carbon plates that are longer than the stock ones to hold the ESC too. This would be good to have a very low bend on the wire drive.
The first picture is just before the last upgrade, then at the rear motor support I have slotted the holes to have some degree of adjustment when aligning the motor coupler with wire drive.

[siberianhusky]

How would somebody go about aquiring one of these? They do look sweet!

[Steven Vaccaro]

How would somebody go about aquiring one of these? They do look sweet!

I dont see a problem with copying something for personal use. But not for resale.

[ray schrauwen]

The original hull maker will do a CF layup for a price. Mike Pags has one.


How would somebody go about aquiring one of these? They do look sweet!

[Steven Vaccaro]

I've seen Mikes. It was nice. Not to mention, the fastest boat on the course. But then again, most of Mikes boats are.

[blowNover]

I'm watching!!!

[Heaving Earth]

Do you have a plan for using a turn fin on the side with the flood chamber?

[Heaving Earth]

Here is my Titan to get you juiced up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYWeEdz-Keo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Brushless55]

The original hull maker will do a CF layup for a price. Mike Pags has one.

do we know how much lighter these are vs the original ones?

[Bigbore]

@ ray schrauwen and Steven Vaccaro: I’m not going to sell these hulls but I want to tell you that pre-preg carbon parts are the strongest parts that can be made with carbon fiber. Also if you look carefully to the coupling between the upper and lower part of the hull you can see that is not glued like the original, and with this system I can make the entire hull monocoque.


Do you have a plan for using a turn fin on the side with the flood chamber?
Sure! It will be made with carbon turn fins both sides.
Your Titan in the video is running very good, how much fast is it there?

[Bigbore]

Batteries plate, servo support and velcro support are ready.
The last 2 pics are for the batteries options. 4S3P with Haiyin 4000mAh and 5S2P with Gens Ace 5300mAh.

[Heaving Earth]

In the vid it's right at 50mph

[Rumdog]

This thing looks great!

[driftah]

yeah I would be interested in procuring one after Im done my cyberstorm build, very nice work.Im sure we would all love to know how to get one of these????

[chris]

Titan is quite wide boat with substantial freeboard, it will self righting only if your batteries are placed along wet channel.

Chris

[madmikepags]

You should be careful about copying someones design and trying to sell it that they have patented and sold for many many years, do what you want for yourself and your own personal use but i wouldn't sell these if I were you. Rermember there was this "little" company called Traxxas that tried to sell their "spartan" under the name "Titan" and had to change all their marketing and packaging they had probably spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on. And that was just a name, you are ripping off a complete design!!!!!! Please don't rip off guys that have spent their lives building and selling great boats. I can't believe ANYONE here would even consider egging this guy on!!! please think before you post.

I do have a CF Titan 40 Made by Aeromarine that was done in an autoclave, it is the lightest boat you could imagine, the bare hull weighs somewhere around 13oz, RTR in LSO trim it probably weighs what a fully laid up titan or DF hull alone weighs.

[Rumdog]

Dude.. Calm down and read. He's not selling them.

[madmikepags]

I am calm. People are asking him about buying them and thats whats not cool, and the fact he made a mold and outright copied a patented design and is bragging about is is also not very cool. I am calm, very calm, when I'm not calm you will know.

[ray schrauwen]

As best as I can tell Aeromarine has never made a hull with a flood chamber. Now if the Patent was still in Pending stage, he would get his butt sued really easy but, once a Patent is on file it's open to modification/ redesign and knock off. You only need to change so many things before it is no longer a "copy" so to say. That said I don't really encourage the practice myself...


I am calm. People are asking him about buying them and thats whats not cool, and the fact he made a mold and outright copied a patented design and is bragging about is is also not very cool. I am calm, very calm, when I'm not calm you will know.

[ray schrauwen]

See this? (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/380680039488?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648)

This is a copy of a DF explorer hull. Not the same hatch, not the same colours and not the same quality but, definitely a copy and no innovation.

[madmikepags]

whatever ray u guys all understand what i mean. I'm done I'm not even gonna look at this thread again. so if you do reply to me I won't see it.

[Rumdog]

Because people dig what he did, and want to buy it, doesn't mean that's what he's doing. In fact, he stated that he will not be making them to sell. Whats the problem here? You can make whatever you damn well please for your own personal use. It's not like he's branding it and looking to profit from it. What if I make a set of trim tabs that look exactly like Speedmaster.. then start a thread to show what I made, because I think its badass. Will people jump down my throat for that, too?

[Shoot to thrill]

It's a bad ass little boat. All my pre-preg experiance is with racing kayaks and much larger boats and I will say it is the balls.

[Wetter]

my wife is patent paralegal for a well known PAT attorney i will find out what is REAL. it is all terminology and design infractions national and international patents (China ring a bell) if you do not have a global specific patent and they flood the market well you go ahead and guess.
there are a lot of avenues people can get around in life but can you wake up in the A.M. and look at your self?
sounds like with the roll over feature and move some placements around (by no means am i encouraging anything) and it only needs to be subtle, LxHxW, material etc...
my uncle had a patent but not international(lost sales) my father in law a friend patented his idea first (screwed him over) i lost a patent to Sony (first to patent) my fault. like everything in life it's how you play the game.
simple, do unto.............................
ems

[Chrisg81983]

She is a real nice boat here I am glad you are showing what you did to her. As long as its for personal use and not for resale I dig it.

[Wetter]

well Bigbore is safe, as it seems it still can be complicated in reference to legality but to what end. cases on file on my wifes desk can take
years they deal with all sorts of special problems especially the medical profession (procedures, pharmacuticals, tools hell everthing).
my experience is patent and sell to the highest bidder. and let them have the headaches(not all the time) but it's less sterss.
the only reason it interest me is people get ugly.$
i am here to learn and have fun.
My hats off to engineers, tool & die men and woman and our brains to make it real:smile:
ps make some wakes and rock your boat.

[Bigbore]

If I'm safe it's better!!!
This week I'm in holiday so I don't stay in front of my computer too much and now I'm at the beach writing from iPhone.
I want to thank wetter for the info provided and I'm glad that more then one user of this forum is liking my boat.
Stay connected cause the following week I will show the progress of this build.

[Bigbore]

Ok, here we are with some progress of this build.
The first picture is my own pro engineer 3d model designed trim tabs. The tabs will be made with a “L” shape carbon 1mm thickness and the other part will be CNC machined with ergal 7075.
The other pic is my own made carbon turn fins. On the left of the pic there are the original (bought) fins that are not made entirely of carbon fiber, that fins are made with a layer of carbon on the outer faces and something different inside, perhaps fiber glass.

[Bigbore]

Here is the boat with the last parts mounted and ready for maiden.

[jkr]

The carbon work i very good!
Probably you need more holes in front.

Question.
What is the propose of the wire on the stringer?

[Steven Vaccaro]

to save the prop if the nut loosens? That may cause drag in that area. it would be interesting to see some esc logging data with and without it there.

[Bigbore]

to save the prop if the nut loosens? That may cause drag in that area. it would be interesting to see some esc logging data with and without it there.

It's the prop saver if wire drive breaks in the middle. I don't think that cause drag in that area because it do not touch the prop nut. Anyway I'm using it to decide which wire drive to be used (0,078" or 0,093") and don't want to loose the prop at any wire breakage. Than when I'll know how many runs a wire drive lasts I will remove the prop saver.

[jkr]

For wire hardened steel drive 2,5mm for over 2500w motor

[Heaving Earth]

Dude, I'm insanely jealous

[Bigbore]

For wire hardened steel drive 2,5mm for over 2500w motor

What stuffing tube inner diameter you suggest for 2,5mm wire drives if mounted without teflon line? And you think is better to use the teflon line or not?

I'm going to build a longer rudder bracket to have the front edge of the rudder aligned with drive dog. Is it better to have the front edge of the rudder aligned with drive dog?

[blowNover]

Talking about all the carbon fiber. It kind of seems fitting to make a cf rudder.

[jkr]

What stuffing tube inner diameter you suggest for 2,5mm wire drives if mounted without teflon line? And you think is better to use the teflon line or not?


Make a carbon tube with bushings.It is all you need.

Like ETTI drive hardware

[Cooper]

Make a carbon tube with bushings.It is all you need.

Like ETTI drive hardware
Unless it is a straight tube I don't think carbon fiber for a stuffing tube is a good idea. Carbon fiber has great strength and shear properties but is very bad for abrasion properties. Brass is still hard to beat, under circular abrasion it is more like self polishing going on in our stuffing tubes. I just don't see the advantages, but see lots of disadvantages of using cf with bushings. But it would look cool :)

[Wetter]

So Nice,
builds like yours helps me to construct mine with more enthusiasm,
Nice flippn' job:rockon2:

[Heaving Earth]

Just wrap a brass tube with carbon cloth if you want the look

[jkr]

Cooper you are right only if the tube has small inner diameter.

Bigbore the tube must be at least 6mm inner with brass bashing.
This way you can have the ability to trim your stringer.
For shaft saver me a gap on the shaft and carefully place a grab screw.

[Bigbore]

Cooper you are right only if the tube has small inner diameter.

Bigbore the tube must be at least 6mm inner with brass bashing.
This way you can have the ability to trim your stringer.
For shaft saver me a gap on the shaft and carefully place a grab screw.

The grab screw rotates with prop shaft or pass through the stinger? Do you have a pic of your saver?

[jkr]

Pass through the stinger.
Be sure if the grab screw is 2mm the gap must be 4-5mm.

[Bigbore]

I have made the first two video of this boat.

Self righting test with 4S:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEe1PpvlymI

Some minutes run at 50 mph on flat water at a pond near to my house:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZC8qEWmP0E

[driftah]

I really want one of these for a build

[ray schrauwen]

It's pretty off-the-hook thats 4-shure.

[Bigbore]

It's pretty off-the-hook thats 4-shure.

What does that mean? Wet?

[ray schrauwen]

It means it's a really great job, well done. Very fast boat and 5 seconds to flip back over. Never need a recovery boat unless something burns up inside. Fit and finish are beautiful also.

[driftah]

ya its made of unobtainium lol.

[Bigbore]

It means it's a really great job, well done. Very fast boat and 5 seconds to flip back over. Never need a recovery boat unless something burns up inside. Fit and finish are beautiful also.
Wow! Thank you very much!
I tought It was a little wet on that run and I will try to loose her (more dry) and see if is better.

[Bomber Z]

That is a awesome job. I would buy that hull for sure. The carbon fiber makes it.

[Mike Caruso]

Bigbore,
You did such a nice built on this boat. I can only speak for me an old guy that runs for sport by myself sometimes, to have a 50 mph boat that can right itself is worth it to me. I have been looking at the over seas builds just for that reason. I would push that one more than my Revolt and not have to worry about retrieving. Again great job.
Mike

[Bigbore]

Bigbore,
You did such a nice built on this boat. I can only speak for me an old guy that runs for sport by myself sometimes, to have a 50 mph boat that can right itself is worth it to me. I have been looking at the over seas builds just for that reason. I would push that one more than my Revolt and not have to worry about retrieving. Again great job.
Mike

It's the same here! I've built this boat to run it in open sea without worry. I will film this baby in open sea rough water in the following months.

[Heaving Earth]

Really nice work man!

[ray schrauwen]

It is hard to see how everything is laid out inside. It would be nice to know how you have it all balanced out.

[Bigbore]

It is hard to see how everything is laid out inside. It would be nice to know how you have it all balanced out.

Did you look at pics in post #09, #19, and #37?
The only difference is that to fit 4S3P I have changed the position of the batteries like in the picture below

[Bigbore]

To run this boat in rough water I have made these bigger turn fins.

[ray schrauwen]

O.k. I see now...

What size Mah are you using with 4S3P?

[Bigbore]

O.k. I see now...

What size Mah are you using with 4S3P?

These are Haiyin 4000mAh 40C then in 3P are 12Ah

[Bomber Z]

Here's a carbon hull w/self righting.
https://astecmodels.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_87&products_id=1431&osCsid=9a900bff3b833645657f149ea6775681

[Bigbore]

Last week I was in holiday in a very beautiful sea in the south of my country and the day before leaving I decided to try a possible painting scheme just sticking some white electrical tape on the hull and some stickers I have from my rc cars.
Then as soon as I have some time to upload some video I filmed over there I will post the link here in this thread.

[Mike Caruso]

Looks much different very nice and easy.

[Bigbore]

This is a video filmed in a wonderful sea in the south of Italy.



http://youtu.be/GcoLDRXz5Ac

[sboti74]

Wow, nice job and beautiful waters!

Sent from my Galaxy III S using Tapatalk 2

[Bigbore]

I have tried a little different painting scheme and got some action pics in the waves

[Bigbore]

Last Saturday on mirror water conditions I have measured a top speed of 86 Km/h (53 mph) and 2 weeks before the GPS top speed was 90 Km/h (56 mph)
My present setup is the following
Battery: 5S2P Gens Ace 5300 30C
Motor: Turnigy HK4082 1600kv
ESC: Turnigy 180A
Prop: X447/3
The question I can't understand is why the boat leans on the left side at that speed? Isn't it supposed to counter roll the prop on the right?
Could be the rudder?
I have tried to use trim tabs to solve this issue. The right trim tab is parallel to the keel and the left one is pushed down a bit.
It seems to me that with this setup the boat runs pretty well not too lose and not too wet with little kine walk and with the electronics sufficient cool. The ESC was at 43°C (109°F) and the motor was at 37°C (99°F)
Is there something else to try?

[Wetter]

love your action shots:cool:
it seems awhile ago some negative waves were coming, but now your launching over them.:thumbup:

[bikergreen]

I have tried a little different painting scheme and got some action pics in the waves

That last pic is SICK! I need a boat like this for wave bashing!!

[Mike Caruso]

Nice water is the bottom of your rudder flat?

[Bigbore]

Nice water is the bottom of your rudder flat?

Yes, it is.

[Mike Caruso]

You need to round the BOTTOM of the rudder off front to back. Take your time you will be rewarded with better performance. Let me know it should help but also make's the nose run lighter so drive easy the first time in the water. Make the back side (trailing edge) of rudder sharper than mine I thought it was sharp until I took this picture. Free speed just like back edge of propeller blade.

Water tube I added to bottom of rudder is from the AQ SV27 and it is hard brass and I used a .091" drill bit to open it up. It flows plenty of water for my boat. I wish I could sharpen the back side of the rudder like I used to sharpen my Ice Skate Blades called Hollow Ground. Bridge Port and a very small ball end mill bit. I think it would reduce drag using Eagle Tree I could prove it and I'll bet it would do the same on the prop.
106775106776

[Wetter]

how sharp should a rudder be?
cut paper?

[jkr]

how sharp should a rudder be?
cut paper?
As possible you can.
I can shave my arm with mine.

[Wetter]

didn't realize had to be so sharp.
thanx.
sorry Big not tryn' hijack your thread.
just tryn' not to start a new one.
soo many of these things and stuff to learn.
now where did i put that Autoclave:confused2:

[Mike Caruso]

My Autoclave is hiding on me too! HA

[lenny]

Is that a weed block of some kind,
Coming from the stinger and over the prop to the back of the bullet nut ?
I never seen that done before if so.

[lenny]

Ok sorry,:lol:

Just taking this great build in. :tiphat:
It is a prop saver,
Sounds like a winner to me.:thumbup1:

[Wetter]

Hey Big what about a larger self-righting rig?
damn you're good.:buttrock:

[Bigbore]

That's what I made at my rudder. First pic before and last pic after rounding.
Tomorrow I'll go to a lake attended by FE racers and will see what my boat can do.

@ lenny: That's a prop saver that is helping me to understand how to setup the wire drive. My current wire drive with a diameter of 2mm (0.078") has 7 hours of work on it and I've used it in salt water too without removing and greasing each time but only every 2 hours. At the beginning I had problems with alignment to the motor coupler and the wire lasted less than one hour.

@ Wetter: Are you talking about a bigger boat?

[Wetter]

@ Wetter: Are you talking about a bigger boat?

yea, yea.:thumbup1:

[Bigbore]

yea, yea.:thumbup1:

It's not on my plans for the moment. I'm super happy of this little fast and furious boat capable of bashing through the waves and fast running at the lake on mirror water.

At Mike Caruso you are the man! The rudder performed axactly as you predicted and the boat at the beginning was looser than last time I tried it.
Then I've adjusted the position of the stinger, the batteries placement and the trim tabs.
At the end of the day at the lake I was happy because I was able to adjust the boat trim as I wanted.

[millzee]

Great build, you've done very very well. I miss my titan but it needed to be self up righting like yours, it spent too much time upside down.
Awesome work!!

[Mike Caruso]

It's not on my plans for the moment. I'm super happy of this little fast and furious boat capable of bashing through the waves and fast running at the lake on mirror water.

At Mike Caruso you are the man! The rudder performed axactly as you predicted and the boat at the beginning was looser than last time I tried it.
Then I've adjusted the position of the stinger, the batteries placement and the trim tabs.
At the end of the day at the lake I was happy because I was able to adjust the boat trim as I wanted.

Nice job on the rudder and glad to help out.

[Bigbore]

The boat is now completed with a final paint and yesterday I have installed a longer rudder bracket.
In these months I've been bashing this baby in the sea and at the lake and she's awesome.
The next week end I'll try the longer longer rudder bracket.

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[larryrose11]

Sweet job there!! Looks great!
Did you have to do any post cure surface finishing on the CF?
How does the self righting part work?

[Chrisg81983]

Looks great how does it run any video

[Bigbore]

Sweet job there!! Looks great!
Did you have to do any post cure surface finishing on the CF?
How does the self righting part work?

No, the carbon fibre is moulded within autoclave at a temperature of 130°C and don't need anything once out of the moulds.
Here is the test video for the self righting feature:
http://youtu.be/fEe1PpvlymI

And these are some video in the sea and at the lake:
Black Boat 73 in rough water http://youtu.be/GcoLDRXz5Ac

Brushless Offshore Black Boat 73 on a race oval http://youtu.be/704SJyw0wNo

Black Boat 73 @ the beach http://youtu.be/cL0oiD_sJ_8

[Spartanator]

Looks nice! I want one! lol

[larryrose11]

That runs great!! Great work!!