So this is what hes going to do if he gets in

[Ocean Racer]

I just got on the web and this was the first thing i saw. sandiego.cox.net/cci/newsnational/national?_mode=view&_state=maximized&view=article&id=D91TP0JO1&_action=validatearticle

[Dr. Jet]

Barak Hussein Obama is upset about this bit of satire. Awww, poor Barry (he went by that name when he was a kid living with his "white" family). This is nothing compared to what the mainstream media has done to Richard Milhouse Nixon, Gerald Ford, Ronald Wilson Reagan, George Herbert Walker Bush and George Walker Bush, and just about every other Republican/Conservative in the public eye. Remember what thay did to Judge Bork and Clarence Thomas?

I like it when the Left gets a taste of their own medicine.

If you can't take this little bit of heat from the media Barry Hussein Obama, how will you deal with those who are intent on the destruction of the West when they dish out something REALLY nasty?

I am frightened that there are so many in this country that think he would make a good President. To those that do, I ask you two questions: What legislative achievements has he accomplished? Barry talks a lot about change. Hitler brought change to Germany in 1932. What exactly does Barack Hussein propose to change in America?

[Bill-SOCAL]

The satire/parody is aimed at the people who can think of no better way to attack him than with lies and innuendo.

I am more frightened by those that still think GW Bush was a good President.

And comparing him to Hitler? Low crap.

[Dr. Jet]

Bill, I am not comparing him to Hitler. Sorry if it came across that way. If anyone needs to be compared to Hitler, it would be that Nazi in a headscarf, Mahmoud Achmadinijad (sp.?). What I am saying is that change for change's sake is not necessarily a good thing. Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Payne, Adams and the like brought change and it was a good thing. Hitler brought change, but it was not a good thing. B.H.O. talks about change. What does B.H.O. propose to change and how? Will it be a good change?

By the way, I voted for G.W. twice and I am very disappointed. He has totally forsaken the three things that define a country: Borders, language and culture. The only bright thing I can point to in his Presidency is the Superme Court appointments and the recent decision codifying my right to own guns. If Kerry or Gore had been elected, Ruth Bader-Ginsberg and her cadre of communists in black robes would be taking my guns from my cold, dead hands today.

One other bright spot in his Presidency: Although the Islamo-Fascists have continuously expressed their deepest desire to attack the U.S.A., there has not been an attack on this country. It is not that they don't want to attack us; rather, it is that they can not, for reasons that are either obscure or more likely, classified. When B.H.O. gets elected, I'm certain he can talk them out of their irrational hatred for Western Civilization and all of us Infidels. We can all sit around the campfire and sing Kumbya.

[Doby]

Very low blow. The New Yorker should apologise for that, and quickly.
He's done nothing to deserve that.:confused1:

Shame on the New Yorker:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

Would anyone appreciate being depicted like that???

[Dr. Jet]

Very low blow. The New Yorker should apologise for that, and quickly.
He's done nothing to deserve that.:confused1:

Shame on the New Yorker:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

Would anyone appreciate being depicted like that???

Did you think the same thing when the New York Times printed far worse depictions of Ronald Reagan?

[Bill-SOCAL]

Sorry Dr. Jet, you wrote this:


Hitler brought change to Germany in 1932. What exactly does Barack Hussein propose to change in America?

Which seems to be a pretty clear comparison to Hitler. Saying it was not your intent does not change the fact of the statement.

[Dr. Jet]

I don't think Obama is a fascist. I think he is a Marxist, or possibly better described as an Afro-Leninist.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Well I see you are a fan of Mike Savage.

Here's a great response to that absurd label:


As a piece of invective, I tip my hat to Michael Savage, who has decided to label Barack Obama an Afro-Leninist. It's quite a combination. Disregarding the fact that Obama is a native-born American and that he doesn't espouse state ownership of the means of production, it's a tight little phrase full of negativity that signifies everything yet states nothing.

It's just a shame that the right wing's willingness to brand all Democrats as traitors has migrated from John Birch cliques and KKK meetings to nationally syndicated radio programs.

http://threewaynews.blogspot.com/2008/06/barack-obama-afro-leninist.html

So can you perhaps expand on Mr. Savage's derisive label and help me to understand what, exactly, an "Afro-Leninist" is??

[Avanti]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAPD8COEPnc
Just be ready to fight if BHO gets in, because the Klan has already issued a hit on him, and this country will see a race war of unimaginable scale. I for one am ready for what ever comes my way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nid7PRNQ5F0
I don't care if he wins or not I just don't want to deal with the fall out when the Klan linches him.

[SJFE]

One other bright spot in his Presidency: Although the Islamo-Fascists have continuously expressed their deepest desire to attack the U.S.A., there has not been an attack on this country. It is not that they don't want to attack us; rather, it is that they can not, for reasons that are either obscure or more likely, classified.

Agreed 100% in respect to our security. They can listen to my calls monitor my internet and keep track of where I spend my money all they want. After all I'm not doing anything wrong. If a person has a problem with that they are up to no good.

[Avanti]

sometimes the media is cool LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp4u55Gy6kc

[SJFE]

LOL @ the Klan. I had an opertunity to read the application. It was pure comedy. They don't like ANYONE. My question was...so um you are absolutly sure your blod line is "pure"? It's impossible to be as white as they require...LMAO Morons

[Avanti]

they do not like my Catholic Italian butt thats for sure.
all extreme groups make themselves and their race look silly.

[Doby]

Did you think the same thing when the New York Times printed far worse depictions of Ronald Reagan?

Doesn't matter who it is about, freedom of the press has to be balanced with taste and responsibility. This cover shows none.
:thumbsdown:
In true American fashion, he should sue them !!!!!!:w00t: :w00t:

[Dr. Jet]

Well I see you are a fan of Mike Savage.

Here's a great response to that absurd label:



http://threewaynews.blogspot.com/2008/06/barack-obama-afro-leninist.html

So can you perhaps expand on Mr. Savage's derisive label and help me to understand what, exactly, an "Afro-Leninist" is??

1. He is an Afro-Centerst. He sat in Reverend wright's pew for twenty years listening to the hatred this man had for White America. He was close personal friends with him for two decades. He sleeps with a woman who has no pride in her country. Your makup is determined by the company you keep.

2. Listen to what he says, then go read some of Lenin's speaches. Even liberal media claim he has the most leftist voting record in the Senate.

Just to set things straight, I think McCain is merely a raving socialist. When it all comes down to brass tax, I think this country is screwed no matter who gets elected.

Lastly, and :focus: , kudos to them for printing the picture. How intolerant of diversity you people on the left become when it is you oxe being gored. Like I mentioned earlier, the print and television media printed far worse of Nixon, Reagan, Ford, Bush, Bush, Gingrich (remember the Grinch who stole Chrismas drawing?), Bork, Thomas, Rice, Cheney, and on and on. The First Amendment was written to protect political speach, and more specifically, to protect offensive political speech. If you don't like the the drawing, don't look at it or grow a thicker skin. The only apology necessary should be for not making it more offensive.

[Avanti]

doby---Please he needs to suck it up and take it, it is all part of being in the public eye. The media does it to everyone, he is no exception.

[Doby]

I'm just saying that no-one deserves that......The media needs to grow up.

[Bill-SOCAL]

1. He is an Afro-Centerst. He sat in Reverend wright's pew for twenty years listening to the hatred this man had for White America. He was close personal friends with him for two decades. He sleeps with a woman who has no pride in her country. Your makup is determined by the company you keep.

And of course you are choosing to use the Faux New Quote of Michelle Obama's that leaves out the "really". She said it was the first time in her adult life she was REALLY proud. Not the first time she was proud. But then you'd have no leg to stand on then. Oh well.




2. Listen to what he says, then go read some of Lenin's speaches. Even liberal media claim he has the most leftist voting record in the Senate.

Well, not really. He was labeled by a right leaning publication as being the most Liberal, not the "most leftist". Not really the same thing. But then again you guys on the right need to think that anyone who does not agree with you hates America.




Just to set things straight, I think McCain is merely a raving socialist. When it all comes down to brass tax, I think this country is screwed no matter who gets elected.

Well, we sort of agree on that. In the end I think neither party has our best interest at heart. But I do know that I do not want another 4 to 8 years of the same old thing, and despite McCain's protestations to the contrary, his actions say that is exactly what we will get with him.



Lastly, and :focus: , kudos to them for printing the picture. How intolerant of diversity you people on the left become when it is you oxe being gored.

Well, I agree on the publishing it part. But what concerns me most is that a number of people on the right have failed to see it for what it is. And that is that it is mocking THEM for their smear politics. Look at the title of this thread for an example.

I think everyone is fair game, but it amuses me how the right does not share that opinion unless it is aimed at the Liberals. How many times have we heard the right say that doing anything that questions the great and mighty Bush is akin to being a traitor.

The cover IS offensive, and it was meant to be in order to make the point of how absurd it is to believe the crap being spread about Obama. It is too bad that Obama did not let that work for him.

[Dr. Jet]

........there are so many in this country that think [Barak Hussein Obama] would make a good President. To those that do, I ask you two questions: What legislative achievements has he accomplished? [He] talks a lot about change.............. What exactly (and how) does Barack Hussein propose to change in America?

Bill,

You were very quick to answer all my posts... except this one. Why is that? (Past political leader reference left out).

[Bill-SOCAL]

Sorry, had to go live a bit of my life away from the keyboard.

You asked two questions:


I ask you two questions: What legislative achievements has he accomplished? [He] talks a lot about change.............. What exactly (and how) does Barack Hussein propose to change in America?

Fair enough. Let's look at #1 first.

What legislative achievements has he accomplished?

Well, this is obviously asked because you feel that he has none. Which is sort of correct. Since he has only been in the US Senate for a short time he has not had the full opportunity to propose or enact much. 18 months is not a long time to get things done. However, he does have a fairly long record in the Illinois state senate. Here's an article that helps detail some of that experience:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html

My favorite line from that article is this one:


Taken together, these accomplishments demonstrate that Obama has what Dillard, the Republican state senator, calls a "unique" ability "to deal with extremely complex issues, to reach across the aisle and to deal with diverse people." In other words, Obama's campaign claim that he can persuade us to rise above what divides us is not just rhetoric.

Even his Republican counterparts respected him and his accomplishments.

And I guess it troubles you not at all that McCain, while having a much longer record in the US Senate, has an interesting history. He introduced a bill, called McCain-Feingold to change campaign finance. He now ignores the very things he proposed.

He has done the same with immigration policy and veteran benefits. He voted against the latest veterans aid bill and then let Bush actually give him credit for it when it was signed into law. Even if I do not agree with his politics, I wish McCain at least had the courage of his own convictions. Seems very odd that he now opposes many of the things he actually proposed into law. So much for records.

One thing I would like to ask you, why is it so important to you on the right to keep making sure everybody knows his middle name is Hussein?? To do that you don't even use his full name, just Barack Hussein. Why is that??


Question #2 - What exactly (and how) does Barack Hussein propose to change in America?

First take a look at his own words, since I think that is better than me trying to speak for him:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

For me personally I see Obama as a change in the way we do business. Bush's way and the Neo-Con way has gotten us nowhere. Can anyone honestly say we are better off today than we were 8 years ago?? I certainly cannot.

So if I understand you correctly, you prefer to have McCain, who will essentially maintain the status quo, despite the fact that road has proven to be a bad one?

[Dr. Jet]

So if I understand you correctly, you prefer to have McCain, who will essentially maintain the status quo, despite the fact that road has proven to be a bad one?

That is correct. I would prefer someone who would appoint Supreme Court justices that are Strict Constitutionalists as opposed to someone who will appoint judges who see the Constitution as a vehicle to impose their own view of things.

Bush's Presidency is a proven success in three areas. We have not been attacked by the fanatical muslums since September 11, our taxes are lower, and I have the CODIFIED right to my guns. I shudder to think of another ACLU activist judge like Ruth Bader-Ginsberg.

As far as our borders, language, and culture go, he has failed us. Kerry and Gore would have done far worse I believe.

[avengersteve]

got to ask, do you only like obama because he is a democrat? look at it like this.. if he gets elected and fails.. our will be pissed at democrats and a republican will be top do again.. the cycle always repeats it self.. I believe some one already said it best
"this nation is full of winers"

everyone bitches about Iraq and bring our people home. I .. point being. they are soldiers... they sign up for a job they do it. if they don't want to they quit and come home as some one who has 90% of their family in the military I can say proudly.. if you have and issue with making this country safe, feel free to come kiss my red white and blue ass

[Dr. Jet]

Steve,

That may be a just a bit harsh. Even though I think those on the left are severely misguided consumers of left-wing media propaganda, and that liberalism has to be a mental disorder (doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results), I still consider Bill-SoCal a friend. The polital banter is just that. Like I said earlier, were screwed no matter what. I just think one outcome will mean we are MORE screwed.

The people that can kiss my red, white, and blue bum usually wear turbans and shout "Death to America!" If I were King for a Day, they would be looking at a 50-megaton nuclear device heading their way.

:flashfire:

[Steven Vaccaro]

If I were King for a Day, they would be looking at a 50-megaton nuclear device heading their way.

Judging by a Jewish friend of mine that has many family members in Jerusalem, you may get your wish very soon. :flashfire:


Seems from my end of things that we have to vote for someone that has some guts. Any guy that's drops his mentor of 20 years, to be frank, doesn't have the balls to stand up for us in these times of conflict! You just don't do what he did. It goes against everything I stand for. Whats that old saying about "A tiger doesn't change....", neither will Barack.

I'm not happy about the Rep candidate, but for sure wont be voting Barack the wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Dr. Jet]

Seems from my end of things that we have to vote for someone that has some guts. Any guy that's drops his mentor of 20 years, to be frank, doesn't have the balls to stand up for us in these times of conflict! You just don't do what he did. It goes against everything I stand for. Whats that old saying about "A tiger doesn't change....", neither will Barack.

I'm not happy about the Rep candidate, but for sure wont be voting Barack the wolf in sheep's clothing.

Very astute of you Steven, and well said. :iagree:

[Steven Vaccaro]

Thanks, buts its a statement I wish I didn't have to make. The last couple of times around I had to vote for "the devil I knew". Not something I'm happy about. When will we get a Republican candidate I can truly say "I want to vote for" ? Sadly there were a couple that ran this year that I may have been able to say that about, but the rest of the country picked McCain. Not sure what they see in him?

[Hydromaniac]

Its very hard to grasp, In a country of this size that these are the best choices any political party has to offer. SCARY TIMES AHEAD!!

[Dr. Jet]

Thanks, buts its a statement I wish I didn't have to make. The last couple of times around I had to vote for "the devil I knew". Not something I'm happy about. When will we get a Republican candidate I can truly say "I want to vote for" ? Sadly there were a couple that ran this year that I may have been able to say that about, but the rest of the country picked McCain. Not sure what they see in him?


Again, very astute and well said. :iagree:

Unfortunately, I must say the last few times I voted, it was AGAINST the other guy as opposed to FOR my guy.

Scary times ahead indeed. :sad:

P.S. Someone just sent me the text of an interview Investor's Business Daily did with Sarah Palin, Alaska's Governor. Now that is a woman I would vote FOR in a heartbeat, and would make an EXCELLENT President. That will never happen though, because she is obviously not part of our political machine and the government/media complex. If you feel so inclined, do a search for it.

[avengersteve]

may have been a bit harsh yes, but I cannot stand how people are so fueled by the media.. its a cartoon...
all people see in oboma is that is not a republican. Hell even before the war started bush asked congress to go, he made a statement that this war would take years and years to be finished. Now that it is still going on people are like this is too long.. do you think it will be over in a day?? AHH! hell we are still in Japan......

Id like to know why any American feels as though a picture of a u.s soldier pointing and laughing at a disrobed raghead is wrong, and immoral and all that jazz. these are the same people taking our loved ones and friends. beating them and cutting their heads off. but we cant simulate drowning"? yes we are above them we have means of "torture" that is mainly psychological not lets cut thirer limbs off till they talk..

lets switch gears since we are on politics. Immigration...
locally here an illegal and 4 of his Mexican friends recently raped rapidity a 12 yr old girl. And due to the nature of the crime.. and the fact they are illegal's, they are getting special treatment in jail.. they are in a special place where the gen. population will not touch them.. I want a president that will fight for pos like this to be put in sing sing and be dealt with like all the other child molesters in this country. not deport them so they can swim back over and do it again

To be honest I miss September 12 2001. the day that all of us as Americans stood as a whole and said lets put our petty differences aside, today we are not black, with Jewish or catholic... we are Americans.. and you just effed up.

long rant short. i wish people would make discions based on more than 3 key views this year. Iraq, Oil prices, And the media

[Dr. Jet]

I'm with you Steve, and don't get me started on the invasion of the army of Mexican Nationals (i.e. ILLEGAL aliens). Do you know that illegal aliens comprise one out of three imprisoned felons in this country? I refuse to call them "immigrants"; that title is reserved for those who have earned it. I would like to see the USA enact the exact same measures on OUR southern border as Mexico has on their southern border with Guatemala. The touchy-feely people here would call it savage and brutal at best.

I saw the recent video of some kid being "tortured" at Gitmo. Give me a break. :olleyes: Sergeant Joe Friday did far worse on "Dragnet". Personally, I think we should pound bamboo shoots under their fingernails, water board them, then cut their heads off with a dull, rusty knife, then bury the body with some of Farmer John's left-over pork by-products. A couple of those, and the remainder will sing like canaries.

Remember what General Pershing did to the muslums in the Phillipines? These cockroaches have no respect for "tolerant" people. Tolerance to them is weakness. They only fear the fearless. We need General George Patton running the military, not a bunch of Harvard MBAs.

As far as Iraq goes, it is far safer than California. The media will NEVER publish any good news from the region. They have an agenda, and good news does not fit it. I'll try to find a letter from a returning service man I read the other day, and post it.

[avengersteve]

yeah, my cusin just got back from iraq not too long ago, she had tonns of pictures of people waving ol glory and signs with mispelled english that said thank you usa. you will never see that on tv. I am sick and tired of calling 411 and getting for spanisg oprima numora ocho... if i go to germany there is no.. for english press8

[Dr. Jet]

As long as we are going on a political vein in this thread, here is an article I copied (and edited grammar and punctuation) that affects almost everyone who is working toward retirement:

Windfall Tax on Retirement Income

Adding a tax to your retirement is simply another way of saying to the American people, you're so stupid that we're going to keep doing this until we drain every cent from you. That's what the Speaker of the House is saying. Read below...............

Nancy Pelosi wants a Windfall Tax on Retirement Income. In other words, to tax what you have made by investing toward your retirement. You aren't going to believe this.

Madam speaker Nancy Pelosi wants to put a Windfall Tax on all stock market profits (including Retirement fund, 401K and Mutual Funds)! Alas, it is true – all to help the 12 Million Illegal Immigrants and other unemployed Minorities! (which to her represents 12 million Democrat votes purchased).

This woman is frightening.
She quotes..."We need to work toward the goal of equalizing income (didn't Marx say something like this?), in our country and at the same time limiting the amount the rich can invest."(I am not rich, are you?)

When asked how these new tax dollars would be spent, she replied:
"We need to raise the standard of living of our poor, unemployed, and minorities. For example, we have an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants in our country who need our help along with millions of unemployed minorities. Stock market windfall profits taxes could go a long way to guarantee these people the standard of living they would like to have as 'Americans'." (Read that quote again and again and let it sink in. "Lower your retirement; give it to others who have not worked as you have for it", so they can live like Americans even though they are NOT.

Send it on to your friends. I just did!! This lady is out of her mind and she is the Speaker of the House! Imagine a Democrat House and a Democrat White House and kiss your hard work good bye.

Is this the kind of change we can expect from Barrak Hussein Obama?

Now I would like to touch base on another important tax issue. Conservatives would like every day to be July 4th. Liberals would like every day to be April 15th.

Liberals use class envy as a tool to gain power. It is all about income redistribution. Take it from those that work, and give it to those that don’t. Tax the EVIL rich they say. Who are the rich? As far as the tax code goes, the rich are not the people that are sitting on a pile of money; they are the people EARNING a pile of money. Talk to rich people that EARN a lot of money. Most of them WORK VERY HARD for it. Only INCOME is taxed. Ted Kennedy is sitting on a pile of money that is not taxed. Only the earned interest on that money is taxed.

In the eyes of the law, a corporation is the same as a person (for tax purposes). That means that corporations are taxed as a “rich” person. Sock it to those EVIL rich people, after all, they only create jobs for jobs for “the working people” (yes, I know some monopolistic corporations like the oil industry are out of control, but that is another discussion). Do you know if you taxed only the “rich” at 100% and nobody else, the government would have enough money to run for a couple of days? And if you did tax the rich at 100%, how long would they continue to work and earn money? No my friends, the bulk of the money in this country is in the hands of the average working stiff. And that is where the liberals go to get it. Look at your paycheck stub and focus on your gross pay. Then look at your net pay. How would you feel if you received 100% of your pay every two weeks, only to be forced to write the government a check for the difference every two weeks? What nation in the history of the planet has ever taxed itself into prosperity?

Class envy is insidious and downright evil. Why should it matter to you what the other guy pays in taxes? Does taxing a rich guy improve your lot in life one iota? If the government took all of Bill Gates’ money, how would that improve your situation? At least Bill Gates creates jobs. Think about it. Who fixes all the computers that crash and give you the blue screen of death? IT guys don’t do it for free.

Here’s another interesting tidbit. Liberals talk about how to “pay” for a tax cut. This is based on the false assumption that the economy is stagnant. This is not the case. Putting more money in the hands of the people means they either buy more or save more. Buying more creates more jobs, which creates more taxpayers. Saving more makes more money for bank to lend for people to buy cars, houses, and other large-ticket items, or for business capitalization. This also creates jobs. Truman cut taxes, Kennedy cut taxes, Reagan cut taxes, and Bush cut taxes. Each time, government revenues went up beyond expectations. Tax cuts “pay” for themselves. Taxing an activity reduces that activity, and raising taxes results in reduced government revenues. The truth of the matter is that liberals know this. They aren’t interested in “paying” for tax cuts; they are interested in making you dependant on them for the necessities of life. If they take all you have, you will have to go to them for your needs.

One candidate (the devil I don’t know) says he wants to rescind the evil Bush tax cuts, so we can “help the poor”. That sounds like he is saying “I have what it takes to take what you have”. At least the other guy (the devil I know) may be less intrusive on my wallet.

Nearly two and a half centuries ago, a bunch of men that were fed up with outrageously high taxes dressed up as Indians (that would be native-Americans for you PC types), clandestinely boarded a British ship in the dark of night, and threw a bunch of tea into the harbor in protest of these exorbitant and excessive taxes.

“Taxation without representation!” they exclaimed. This started a revolution, overthrowing a distant and disconnected government in favor of a system of self-reliance, self-determination, and self-government. Witness the birth of a new nation. Today, the only real representation we get is through political lobbyists that have the ear of our “representatives”. When was the last time you Senator or Representative sat down with you and listened to your point of view? Did any of your representatives get your approval when they allowed increasing the amount of money going to Sub-Saharan Africa for AIDS programs from 15 billion dollars to 48 billion dollars? Most of this money will wind up in the hands of corrupt tribal leaders and government officials. Very little of this money will go where it does any good. Do you think they considered your views in this matter, or just those of the lobbyists when they agreed to send YOUR money to Africa?

When you combine Local, State, and Federal income taxes, sales taxes, gas taxes, telephone taxes, excise taxes, government fees (another form of taxes with a different name), and all the other various and sundry taxes, we pay well over 50% of our income to the government. In California, 1/3 of the cost of a new home is government fees of one sort or another.

Liberals (these can be Republicans as well as Democrats), think you need to pay more to the government. They think they have the ability to spend your money more wisely than you. Furthermore, if you become dependent on them for the necessities of life, you will vote for the ones that offer you the most benefits. Hence the ever-increasing amount of “programs” and government dependency. How many trillions have we spent on the “War on Poverty” with complete failure? Nobody ever discusses the failure of programs, when they ask for more funding. How many times have you heard: “All we need is another $25 billion to make the program work.”? Government is not the solution, it is the problem. We are heading into an election where our choices are a spineless socialist, or an outright Marxist. One small consolation: I’m relieved to know it will not be the power-hungry communist woman.

50% taxation is the norm. If John McCain gets elected, it may only go to 60%. If Barrak Hussein Obama gets elected, hold on to your wallets folks, it’s going to be frightening. Think Union of Soviet Socialist Republics: You work for the State, they don't pay you, they give you what they think you need. "From each according to his ability; to each according to his needs" sounds like his plan for change.

Does anybody know what the horribly outrageous and unreasonable tax rate was on that tea that was thrown into the Boston Harbor? I do. It was 3%.

I wonder if those Patriots of old had any idea how far this country would go into the toilet?

[Dr. Jet]

I posted something very interesting in my gallery. How many of you know how and why Francis Scott Key came to write our National Anthem? I'm willing to bet that not one of you can answer that correctly.

I dare you to listen to this: http://gallery.offshoreelectrics.com/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0

This man, Francis Scott Key, and those who are the subject of this poem/song are patriots in every sense of the word. Barak Hussein Obama will never come close to the honor and respect for this country that these men displayed. John McCain showed some of that same honor Mr. Key writes about when he refused to cooperate with the North Vietnamese in the Hanoi Hilton. He chose REAL torture (beatings, broken bones, and God only knows what else) rather than his own freedom in support of his fellow men and his country.

No, McCain is not perfect, but he has demonstrated respect for this country and he had the honor to stand up to the enemy in support of this country. He would never sit in a church that denegrated this country for twenty years. He would never marry a woman that had no respect for this country.

Barak Hussein Obama has an "issue" with wearing the flag on his lapel. There is controversy over him not putting his hand over his heart when this Anthem is played. Do you honestly think Barak Hussein Obama would ever be considered a patriot? How can a reasonable, thinking person think he would be good for this country? I don't like the change he is bringing. As much as Bush disappoints me, I would prefer another eight years of the status quo over ten minutes of Barak Hussein Obama's change.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Thanks for posting that audio file. Its clears some things up for me.

[avengersteve]

As much as Bush disappoints me, I would prefer another eight years of the status quo over ten minutes of Barak Hussein Obama's change.

couldnt say it better my self. and that was a great audio file.
"your people are insane.. what is wrong with them?" "We will die on our feet befor we live on our knees"


love it

[Ocean Racer]

Man it blew up ive been watching and my idea of this thread was just to show you somin funny.

[sci-flyer]

The city I live in, Minneapolis. Is going crazy with black on white crime.
Roving groups beating up people and putting them in the hospital. These
are unprovoked beatings.
I wonder if this election has anything to do with this?
The next four years is gunna suck, no doubt.

I was brought up by Kennedy liberals, and now they can't believe how all
of there children are registered republicans.

The "N" word meant an instant soap mouth-wash in my family.
Now it is usable ONLY by hip African-Americans.

I think the message of MLK has been lost forever.



As far as the cartoon?

I want the T-shirt :)

[RCprince]

First Fact, Rich People WILL NEVER allow I'll be kind here(Mediocre) people to choose their next Pasty..ooops I meant President....In my few Years on earth I've learned to not discuss Politics or Religion with People...It's a Bar fight waiting to happen...I made this Acronym up a few years ago...Bankrupt.United.States.Happening BUSH...Turn Off the Idiot box and read a Book....Classism, Religion, Racism, Sexism, Politics et'al..are all tools to keeps the eye off the fox and on the other chickens while the fox raids the chicken coop...GATT, NAFTA...etc Yester-year you were content and well taking care of with one Job, today you need two, tomorrow there will be few, and next week when the world opens up, It will be you plus a million or two competing for a way of life you only once knew. http://www.kickthemallout.com/

[RCprince]

Originally Posted by Dr. Jet View Post
As much as Bush disappoints me, I would prefer another eight years of the status quo over ten minutes of Barak Hussein Obama's change.

Trust me Dr. Jet you would NOT want 8 more years of BUSH Admin....Because If his admin was to continue( which they are not really his policies, but that's a different topic for another time) you'd and if not you your children and grand children be competing with youths from India or an Asian who have their PhD's at age 22 for half your salary. We Rank 18th in the world when it comes to literacy, Pre Bush we were 5th( lol kidding on that...looking for the stats)

[sci-flyer]

FACT?

LOL, roll me up one while you're at it.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahah!

[RCprince]

Second fact..I do not engage in the use of illegal, nor legal( Alcohol, Prescription) drugs

The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth.
H. L. Mencken

[ghostofpf1]

People who still support gwb after all that's happened in the last 8 years simply amaze the hell out of me.You're one of ~ 15% in this country who still do, so at least you're not entirely alone.:bounce:

I'll gladly vote for Obama and for the first time in a long while I don't think I'll feel like I'm simply voting for the lesser of two evils..AGAIN.

Ghost

[RCprince]

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ux3DKxxFoM We Will Miss You Governor BUSH

[Mich. Maniac]

Hey Doby, I did not read the entire thread simply cause I dont get into politics as far as debating it but just wonder if Canadians care much about whats going on in US? I really dont hear much from Canada other that they have a wonderful health care. I also just realized you as a country still have a Queen! I kinda forgot. Anyway Canada and and England?? is it seem to have things figured out and just wish people heard as much from US as we seem to about Canada

[sjslhill]

Bush is not running....try thinking for once and not following:confused2:



People who still support gwb after all that's happened in the last 8 years simply amaze the hell out of me.You're one of ~ 15% in this country who still do, so at least you're not entirely alone.:bounce:

I'll gladly vote for Obama and for the first time in a long while I don't think I'll feel like I'm simply voting for the lesser of two evils..AGAIN.

Ghost

[sjslhill]

Congressional Job Approval rating 17.3%

Once again, try thinking and not being a sheep :huh:



People who still support gwb after all that's happened in the last 8 years simply amaze the hell out of me.You're one of ~ 15% in this country who still do, so at least you're not entirely alone.:bounce:

I'll gladly vote for Obama and for the first time in a long while I don't think I'll feel like I'm simply voting for the lesser of two evils..AGAIN.

Ghost

[ghostofpf1]

Bush is not running....try thinking for once and not following:confused2:

Your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired...

Ghost

[sjslhill]

Obama is running against another Bush......I know exactly what your thinking.
Why don't you list the experience of Obama. About two lines and you will be completed.

143 days of experience
Never introduced any bills
Oh, let's run for President, morons will vote for me cause I'm black.

It's a sad think to think that the black race has someone running and it's this guy. It could have been so many that would have been better.




Your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired...

Ghost

[ghostofpf1]

Dude...you're trolling and not even doing a good job of it:confused2: .
I mean you've even played the bigot card ...what next...comparing Obama to hitler...:laugh:

Have fun playing with yourself
Ghost

[Dr. Jet]

...what next...comparing Obama to hitler...:laugh:


Carl Marx or Vladimir Lenin would be a more appropriate comparison; but how many of you fully understand the political makeup of these men and the similarity to Barry Hussein Obama's rhetoric?

[ghostofpf1]

Carl Marx or Vladimir Lenin would be a more appropriate comparison; but how many of you fully understand the political makeup of these men and the similarity to Barry Hussein Obama's rhetoric?

Please do tell us what your favorite talking head told you to say...I'll no doubt be greatly amused :bounce:

Ghost

[Dr. Jet]

I don't listen to talking heads. I haven't watched television since the mid 1970's, and the print media is full of lies. I make up my own mind.

An example of media bias (a.k.a. propaganda):

McCain goes to the Mideast several times. The best coverage he gets is a paragraph on page A-23, and two sentences on the nightly news. Not newsworthy they say. Barry Hussein Obama goes to the Mideast and three network anchors with their entire entorage go with him and grovel at his feet the entire time. No wonder so many ignorant people think he is the Messiah.

Television and print media are nothing more than the propaganda arm of the Democrat party. You are just one of the lemmings that will follow this clown as he takes you over the cliff. He's going to win, the media will see to it. When that happens, I suppose it will be the proud Conservative Nationalists (not Republicans) like me that get to say "I told you so." Enjoy socialism tavadish, you asked for it; now you will get it.

I'm getting old and will croak soon enough. I've seen the United States of America go from the Greatest Generation to the Me Generation. I worry about the country my grandkids will inherit. So sad indeed.

[RCprince]

Who cares...Because to be honest no ones cares unless the iron fist of the Industrial Military Corporate Complex comes knocking at your door step, so until then, It's someone else problem. Maybe one day the IMF and World Bank will allow Bechtel Privatization of Rainwater in your State....lol....darn it I need to hurry and run to the AT&T store, they just released a cellphone that makes pancakes. RON PAUL and Jesse Ventura for President... SJSLHIL seems as if you have a little baggage there Bruh.


Religion
////\\\\\\
Racism----------Classism

[sjslhill]

I am a racist because I think there are better, more qualified blacks than Obama?

typcial.....your a racist, your a racist.

I am American Indian, French Canadian, Scottish, German, English and most important an American!

What is Obama anyway, maybe I'll call him white from now on.

[RCprince]

Racist is a power word...I don't think any of us who have less than a Million in the bank can be racist, we can be ignorant and follow trends or mindsets of a particular ideology based on peer affiliation, But racist, nah.

One thing I like about Obama is his ability to pull the youths together inspire them, many of the youths have giving up, totally. They look at our nation as a pariah on a global scale, they feel we have to many career politicians who've become complacent, and have failed them. Like trees in a rain forest they strong arm the sunlight, the nutrients, the rain from the saplings.

Sometimes all these youths need is a lil' jump start, someone to tell them they are good people, someone to say hey whats your input, someone to say you are important. the don't need to be given anything but the right to have an opportunity to partake in they future in which "THEY" will most likely be apart of.

I believe when you pull people together a lot of those artificial dividers( religion, classism, racism, sexism et al) become transparent and we see the true enemy which we distractingly see as each other. T.E.A.M (Together Everyone Accomplishes More)

[Bill-SOCAL]

What is Obama anyway, maybe I'll call him white from now on.

I believe, that like you, he is an American.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Racist is a power word...I don't think any of us who have less than a Million in the bank can be racist, we can be ignorant


You've lost me. What exactly does being a millionaire have to do with being a racist?? You can be a racist and be dirt poor. However, I do agree with your point about ignorance. This is the true root of racism. So rich or poor, all racists share a common ignorance.

[Dr. Jet]

I believe, that like you, he is an American.

True, but the real question is: What does he call himself? An american? Or does he see himslef as some form of hyphenated American? I would be interested to hear his answer, although I doubt anyone with a microphone or camera will ask him.

[Bill-SOCAL]

You already say you know what he is.

You have called him an Afro-Leninist. This derisive label was coined by Michael Savage, the same radio-head who recently said that autism is a fraud and that 99.9% of autistic children are really just badly behaved kids. Nice guy to have as a source.

And I do so love how you, like Mr. Savage, continuously use Obama's middle name in some sad attempt to make people think he is in fact either a Muslim or less American than those of us with "real" American names. Now you take the next step and twist his first name into one I guess you think is "better" or more American. Hence the use of Barry. But I wonder how you would react to McCain being called "Johnny-Boy" and I am sure that you don't like the label "McSame". (and yes, I know that Obama used "Barry" as a child, until he decided to go back to using his given name, because he was proud of his background and wanted to use his formal given name.)

The use of these names by either side is disrespectful and I think a very Un-American thing to do.

Oh well.

As to your earlier point about the press coverage of Obama's trip to the middle East versus your perception of the coverage for McCain's, let's hope that after this trip he is at least as well versed in the area as Mr. McCain is.

After all, after several trips McCain still confuses the Sunni and Shia sects of Islam, doesn't realize that Iraq does not border Pakistan, thinks Al Qaeda if being trained by Iran (Iran is mostly Shia, Al Qaeda is a Sunni group and they pretty much hate each other), and can't keep straight that the surge came AFTER the "Anbar Awakening". Maybe he needs a few more trips over there.

But I do remember some of the coverage. Like the photo op of him in full battle gear, surrounded by 200 heavily armed troops with at least 2 helicopter gun ships overhead while he was strolling in a marketplace in Iraq. This was to show how "safe" it was. One of the other Republicans with him was quoted as saying that it was no more dangerous than a Sunday flea market in Indiana.

But it seems desperately important to the right to use labels so that they can try to focus the party faithful on things that don't matter so that they don't spend any time actually thinking about the things that do matter.

[Dr. Jet]

You already say you know what he is.

You have called him an Afro-Leninist.

That wasn’t the question. What does Barry Obama think he is?


Michael Savage, the same radio-head who recently said that autism is a fraud and that 99.9% of autistic children are really just badly behaved kids.

Not true. He never said 99.9% Better do your research someplace that is not trying to advance an agenda. Here it is straight from the source: http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=70278


And I do so love how you, like Mr. Savage, continuously use Obama's middle name in some sad attempt to make people think he is in fact either a Muslim or less American than those of us with "real" American names.

No, I use it because he is trying to make the media NOT use a middle name. What was wrong with saying John Fitzgerald Kennedy? The media did it all the time. Now it is off limits? THAT is why I use it; because I’m told I shouldn’t.


But I wonder how you would react to McCain being called "Johnny-Boy"

Doesn’t bother me at all.


As to your earlier point about the press coverage of Obama's trip to the middle East versus your perception of the coverage for McCain's, let's hope that after this trip he is at least as well versed in the area as Mr. McCain is.

Another example of media bias. NYT publishes Obama’s Op-Ed piece, but refuses to publish McCain’s the following week. Fair and balanced media?

Don’t worry Bill, your guy will most likely win. I just think America will lose.

Enjoy the victory while you still can, tavadish.

[Dr. Jet]

Another glaring example of media bias: This thread was started over a cartoon of Obama and his wife. Big flap over that. Headline news. Talk goes on for days. All the liberals are outraged.

Vainity Fair publishes a cartoon of Johnny-Boy ;) all wrinkled with a walker, and Cindy with a bottle of pills. Has anyone heard about it? Is there any outrage? Ever wonder why?

[Dr. Jet]

The more I think about it, the more I like the name "Johnny Boy". Thanks tavadish! By the way, that is a term of endearment, not anything derisive, condescending or accusitory.

[sjslhill]

God Blank America
Land that I'm ashamed of
Stand Behind her and Surrender

that did me in right there

[Bill-SOCAL]

It is an interesting irony to me that the people who seem to least understand what this country is all about are the ones who are the most fervently patriotic.

[sjslhill]

Yes Bill, us stupid people are clinging to our guns and religion. Obama is not the person for me.

I wonder which of Obamas 4 or 5 Iraq policies he will move on.

[RCprince]

The only policies any of our Presidents need to move on, is free health care, free education, move away from project housing may it be vertical of horizontal, phase out fossil fuel and do away with the patriot act...Bush " The Constitution, that's just a piece of paper"

[Dr. Jet]

It is an interesting irony to me that the people who seem to least understand what this country is all about are the ones who are the most fervently patriotic.

I know what this country USED to be about. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Give me liberty or give me death. Don't tread on me. The end of taxation without representation.

Today it appears to be all about what handout the government can give to what group. The "nanny" state. Our new National Symbol should no longer the Bald Eagle, it should a dried up old sow with far too many piglets sucking off of far too few teats.

[sjslhill]

Free Education and Free Health Care? Who is going to pay for this? I pay for the public schools now and they are full of a bunch of union teachers that have jobs for life. So, I choose to send my kids to a private school to get a real education.

The state Universities are ran by emperors building large buildings that they will be remembered by. :tongue_smilie:

I can see the Federal Government getting into health care...that is a real joke. :glare:

No problem getting away from fossil fuels over time.....I agree with that one. The ICE method of moving things is a joke, we need a better solution for cars, trucks and trains.

Speaking of trains, why do we not have any? :confused2:





The only policies any of our Presidents need to move on, is free health care, free education, move away from project housing may it be vertical of horizontal, phase out fossil fuel and do away with the patriot act...Bush " The Constitution, that's just a piece of paper"

[Steven Vaccaro]

Free Education and Free Health Care? Who is going to pay for this?

Come on, you know who! The middle class. We are getting hit in every direction, sure our so called taxes have not risen. Oh how nice of them! But the fee's on things have gone out the roof! A parking meter violation used to be $10 bucks, they just doubled that to $20 now. Gee I wish I had a biz that I could just double things and people had ABSOLUTLY NO SAY over it. How about trash and busing? Used to be paid with our taxes. NOPE not any more, its fee based. I can go on and on. Just like the banking system. The rates are low, so they wack you with all the back-end fees.

Remember the Boston Tea Party? Could be headed down a similar road. There are people out there buying guns in case of a problem in the future. This is no joke. Certain people in the government have been trying to take our gun rights away! Guess why? They don't want regular citizens to have any rights any longer, just in case.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not wacko in favor of any government take over. Thats just nuts. All I ask is for someone to think with his heart and head and not his wallet. It seems we have fewer and fewer politician's that are willing to do this each time around. Now I will shut up :tape:

[sjslhill]

Obama is going to write us all a blank check that is backed by our own checking account.....that's how. Bush was no better.

[ghostofpf1]

Here's a thought..take all that money being wasted on a failed and wasted war effort and pump it into education..imagine doing something productive with all those trillions of dollars :confused2:
While we're at it take the money being wasted on the war on drugs and incarcerating minor criminals and start a work program for the welfare recipients ....

Of course neither will happen because all those wasted efforts line the pockets of the good ole boys and lobbyists....corruption is the American Way now... they're treating the American people like sheep with open wallets

Ghost

[Dr. Jet]

Here's a thought..take all that money being wasted on a failed and wasted war effort and pump it into education..imagine doing something productive with all those trillions of dollars :confused2:
Prove concusively that it is a failed and wasted effort.


While we're at it take the money being wasted on the war on drugs and incarcerating minor criminals and start a work program for the welfare recipients ....

California spends over $12,000 per student per year on education and students still rank in the bottom of all students across the country (they do know about global warming killing polar bears and how to put a condom on a cucumber though). It's not the amount of money being spent, it is the quality of the system. Home schoolers and private schoolers receive a much better education at a fraction of the cost. Throwing more money at a failed education system is not the solution.


Of course neither will happen because all those wasted efforts line the pockets of the good ole boys and lobbyists....corruption is the American Way now... they're treating the American people like sheep with open wallets

Ghost

:iagree:

[RCprince]

I know what this country USED to be about. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Give me liberty or give me death. Don't tread on me. The end of taxation without representation.

Today it appears to be all about what handout the government can give to what group. The "nanny" state. Our new National Symbol should no longer the Bald Eagle, it should a dried up old sow with far too many piglets sucking off of far too few teats.


Dr Jet the founding father are rolling over in their graves....the liberty and freedom pass the forefathers of this once great nation(it's just a corporate whore now, a business has the same right as a human being, WTH.) gave to generations that came after them is about to expire with no to relight the torch.

[RCprince]

ALL wars are a wasted cause. UNLESS someone comes knocking on your door.

[Dr. Jet]

ALL wars are a wasted cause. UNLESS someone comes knocking on your door.

The Islamo-Fascists have been knocking on our door since the 1970s. Jihad. "Death to America". WTC bombings, embassy bombings, nightclub bombings, sucicide bombings, aircraft hijackings, the Aquila Lauro, the USS Cole, September 11. Can't you hear them knocking?

[Dr. Jet]

Dr Jet the founding father are rolling over in their graves....the liberty and freedom pass the forefathers of this once great nation(it's just a corporate whore now, a business has the same right as a human being, WTH.) gave to generations that came after them is about to expire with no to relight the torch.
:iagree:

[RCprince]

The Islamo-Fascists have been knocking on our door since the 1970s. Jihad. "Death to America". WTC bombings, embassy bombings, nightclub bombings, sucicide bombings, aircraft hijackings, the Aquila Lauro, the USS Cole, September 11. Can't you hear them knocking?We armed EVERYONE of them...Everyone

[Dr. Jet]

We armed EVERYONE of them...Everyone

Yeah, they used American-made boxcutters to hijack those airplanes didn't they? ;)

[RCprince]

Well nothing happens unless allowed:zip-up: :tape: that don't even makes sense, someone or someones hijacking a plane with box cutters...Hey I'm Marla Hanson don't you slash me with that box cutter you'll ruin my career, I'd rather die...But hey...

[sjslhill]

This just about sums this whole thread up....some of people here would have skipped WWII and got in a fetal position.
:w00t:

Yeah, they used American-made boxcutters to hijack those airplanes didn't they? ;)

[Dr. Jet]

that don't even makes sense, someone or someones hijacking a plane with box cutters...

That is exactly how 19 fanatical Muslims, bent on sucicide, and the idea of killing as many innocent Americans as possible, hijacked 4 aircraft on September 11, 2001. They did it with box-cutters.

[sjslhill]

Barack Obama on Thursday summoned Europeans and Americans together to "defeat terror and dry up the well of extremism that supports it" as surely as they conquered communism a generation ago.

Damn, now some here cannot vote for Obama.

It's about time he grows that set back that Jackson cut off.

PS, whe he gets back to the US he can flip flop back over to you left wingers and offer a peace treaty and get soft again

[Doozie870]

isreal is backing obama. All bets are off! the jews run the show

[RCprince]

Why are all bets off?

[Bill-SOCAL]

Well, the current President is cozy with the Saudis and that has not worked out so well.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0426/csmimg/04-26_DU.jpg

And we're all scratching our heads about high gas prices. Gee, what a mystery.:glare:

[Dr. Jet]

Netheir candidate appeals to me. I dislike one more than the other.

I should be President! Here's my platform:

The Jet Manifesto

Domestic

A. Taxes: Cut Federal Income Taxes by 2 percent per year over four years, for a minimum total of 8 percent over four years.
B. Size of Government: Reduce Federal Government Departments in size by 4 percent each year, for a total reduction of size by 16 percent over four years.
C. Welfare: Eliminate all public assistance for able-bodied recipients. Cut off all public assistance for immigrants for five years. After two years, repatriate those who are not working.
D. Foreign Companies: Immediately impose tariffs on cars and trucks owned by foreign entities, even if they’re manufactured in America. Double the taxes on all foreign-held real estate and investment instruments.
E. Illegal Aliens: Cause illegal aliens to build a wall between the United States and Mexico, and then, repatriate them. Pay them a one-time worker fee.
F. Military: Number One: Increase pay for active duty combat troops by 10 percent. Number Two: Fire any unmarried military person becoming pregnant while on active duty. Number Three: Combat Veterans receive preference over college grads in promotions. I prefer battle-tested officers in charge of our troops over university-educated MBAs.
G. Abortion: Make abortions illegal, except when the physical survival of the mother is threatened, to be determined by three medical doctors. Require Norplant for all women on welfare of childbearing age.
H. Sex Trades: Close all houses of sex and massage.
I. Drugs: Expand the DEA, while decriminalizing most drugs.
J. Corporate Media: Number One: eliminate all foreign ownership of any American media entity. Number Two: break up overly large conglomerates, like News Corporation.
K. Family: Encourage child bearing among tax paying citizens. Create a marriage incentive, through lower taxes for married heterosexual couples, and a government subsidy for each child conceived and carried to birth. Increase the subsidies for each year the couple remains married.
L. Incarcerated Illegal Aliens: Repatriate all illegal immigrants now incarcerated. Encourage all other illegals to self-repatriate through double taxation on wages and fines on employers.
M. Oil: Number One: Release Strategic Reserves. This will “burn” speculators in the pocketbook. Number Two: Drill here, drill now. Drill ANWR, drill offshore, drill oil shale, drill everywhere in the USA where there is oil. Encourage the construction of new transportation, refining, and distribution facilities.
N: Non Oil-Related Energy: Encourage new technologies (wind, solar, geothermal, tidal, hydrodynamic, whatever). Build nuke power plants everywhere feasible.

International

A. Iraq: Send in Iraqi troops to mop up pockets of resistance. Make Iraq pay with their oil for the cost of the war. Cordon off Sadr City, force all residents to leave, then go in and mop up all resistance fighters. Divide Iraq into three to four sectors; Sunni, Shiite, Kurd, and International. Next, remove all U.S. troops after above achieved.
B. Iran: Sanction, embargo, and mine their harbors. Nothing goes in, nothing comes out. If Iran continues to build nuclear weapons technologies, destroy their facilities (or encourage Israel to do so).
C. North Korea: Destroy their launching platforms, impose a Naval blockade on all goods coming in or out, except food.
D. Israel and Arab Entities: Give Israel four years to become self-sufficient. Cut off all foreign aid to all nations. If any Arab country attacks Israel with nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons, our response will be a nuclear attack on that country.
E. China: 20 percent tariffs on all Chinese-made goods immediately; rising by 5 percent each year for each year China refuses to revalue their currency.
F. United Nations: Withdraw immediately. Remove all Diplomats and staff. Convert the United Nations building into housing for the working poor.
G. Mexico: Force Mexico to pay one barrel of oil for every illegal alien in the United States of America per month.
H. National Security. Let all Islamic countries know that any attack whatsoever on United States interests will be considered an act of war and our response will not exclude a nuclear attack against any nation financing or otherwise supporting radical Islam. Since radical Islam has no political boundaries, an appropriate response to Islamic jihad is to turn Mecca to glass.

[sjslhill]

Saudi oil does not produce Gasoline.....we have Sweet Oil, which does. Obama wants drilling to remain banned and Bush wants to drill. :confused2:

Bush is not running for president.....:glare:

Pelosi will have a drilling hat on soon.....or she will be voted out of majority leader.

If you don't agree, just quit driving and make a real stand. Somehow I doubt that you spend happy, materalistic, Calf people will do nothing but tell others what to do. :iagree:

What is your state debt up to now?



Well, the current President is cozy with the Saudis and that has not worked out so well.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0426/csmimg/04-26_DU.jpg

And we're all scratching our heads about high gas prices. Gee, what a mystery.:glare:

[Bill-SOCAL]

Saudi oil does not produce Gasoline.....we have Sweet Oil,

First, our #2 country for imported oil is Saudi Arabia. Roughly 20% of the oil we import comes from Saudi Arabia. In addition, they are the single largest holder of both proven and unproven reserves. So your statement makes little, if any, sense.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

BTW - West Texas Intermediate (WTI) and Arab Light (mostly from Saudi Arabia) are very similar. API gravity around 36 to 40 with low sulfur content.




Obama wants drilling to remain banned and Bush wants to drill. :confused2:

True, but it is simply not correct to think that even if we were to drill every available acre of land (or OCS) that it would impact gasoline prices in anything less than 5 to 8 years. I do happen to agree that we need to allow more exploration and production, but we also need to recognize that we simply do not have enough reserves to offset our consumption. Do we need it, yes we do. Will it free us from foreign imports, not really. We would need to basically quintuple our daily production to offset what we import. And even then we still would pay the prevailing world price. It is not like we get a discount on "our" oil.




Bush is not running for president.....:glare:

OK, what does that have to do with anything. I think it is important since McCain wants to continue many of Bush's policies, so it is important to know what those policies are.

[Dr. Jet]

What? :confused2: No comment on the Jet Manifesto?? :confused2: :confused2:

I thought that would raise your ire just a bit. I was certain you would want to shoot some holes in my Right-Wing-Extremist Agenda. :bash:

[sjslhill]

Your Bush and McCain comparsion is pathetic....McCain has been a thorn in Bush's side except for Iraq which he was correct on. Troop reductions are starting now and Iraq's government is taking control. Obama voted to move out and surrender and hand the country over to radical Al-Qaeda, wow, what a plan that was. I don't exactly like McCain that much but he has more than 145 days of experience.

Let's review....
Obama voted to surrender
Obama wants the ban on drilling to continue which makes certain that we will buy oil from the Saudi's

McCain wants to drill for the future
McCain helped us win the war in Iraq.

[Darin Jordan]

Curious conversation going on here... Seems like there is a lot of info out there... hard to tell which is correct.

The more conservative radio shows have been claiming that it's a "fact" that the US holds more oil in reserves (proven? Unproven???) than a "majority of the middle-east combined"... A "30-year supply at current consumption levels".

I guess I'd better go do some fact finding because figuring out who to believe is going to be tough...

What's more... the US Oil reserves are supposedly the more "gas friendly" "sweet" crude that is desired for gas production...

I disagree that getting our own oil production going wouldn't help... Recently, just the TALK of us drilling our own reserves lowered prices per barrel... I disagree that taking the silver spoon away from the Middle East wouldn't help to fix things to some degree...

BUT, I DO agree that we need to find a better source of power... The high prices currently are prompting some interesting research and development... One can only hope this continues...

[sjslhill]

Welcome Darin,

Fire away......

If we wanted oil we could have it in less than a year in the Government decided to do so. All one has to do is look at WWII and see what this country can do.

I agree that we need to look at a better source, in fact, let's do it and sell the technology!

Sell grain to the middle east for $120 a bushel.

[sjslhill]

Most of it is correct....some kinda harsh. It's never going to happen in your life, the country will go broke and fold at this rate. Bush broke the country going to Iraq and now oil is killing us.....both these guys running don't look that good, Obama being the least of two. :thumbsdown:






What? :confused2: No comment on the Jet Manifesto?? :confused2: :confused2:

I thought that would raise your ire just a bit. I was certain you would want to shoot some holes in my Right-Wing-Extremist Agenda. :bash:

[sjslhill]

this just in....

The great Obama says....

tune your car and add air to your tires and suck it up.

Obama must not know that gun packing, church going, middle class America's do this already.....

[Dr. Jet]

Sell grain to the middle east for $120 a bushel.

Now there's an idea that should be part of the Jet Manifesto with one "slight" revision. Tie it to the price of oil. Say 1.5 times the price of a barrel of oil. :rockon2: Consider that a modification of Manifesto Item "Domestic: M: Oil:"

[Dr. Jet]

....some kinda harsh.

Yep.:thumbup1:

[sjslhill]

The Geological Survey and Congressional Research Service say it's 95 percent likely that there are 15.6 billion barrels of oil beneath ANWR. With today's prices and technology, 60 percent of that is recoverable. At $135 a barrel, that represents $1.3 trillion that we would not have to send to Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia and Venezuela. It means lower prices and reduced risks of oil spills from tankers carrying foreign crude.

[sjslhill]

It is production that matters – and the United States has locked up vast energy resources. Not just an estimated 169 billion barrels of oil in the Outer Continental Shelf, Rockies, Great Lakes, Southwest and ANWR – but also natural gas, coal, uranium and hydroelectric resources.

[sjslhill]

While Washington dithers over exploiting oil and gas reserves off the coast of Florida, China has seized the opportunity to gobble up these deposits, which run throughout Latin America, the Caribbean and along the U.S. Gulf coast.

The Chinese have forged a deal with Cuban leader Fidel Castro to explore and tap into massive oil reserves almost within sight of Key West, Florida. At the same time, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who controls the largest oil reserves in the Western Hemisphere, is making deals to sell his country�s oil to China, oil that is currently coming to the United States.

[Darin Jordan]

The Geological Survey and Congressional Research Service say it's 95 percent likely that there are 15.6 billion barrels of oil beneath ANWR.

And that's ONLY ANWR... That doesn't include the coasts and shale oil, etc. that are available as well...

Actually... the US has been "smart" to hold off on drilling our own... let the others run out first, then we'll be in their shoes next... ;)

[sjslhill]

The Democrat Party along with the MSM rejected this energy proposal as soon as the President was finished talking. this rejection came from Democrats like Sen. Harry Reid, and Rep. Nancy Pelosi. The Democrat party has blocked drilling, nuclear, solar, wind or creating new refineries for over 30 years! Most of the alternatives were blocked by the Democrat enviromarzists. Even wind projects were blocked due to migratory bird patterns.

Sen. Barack Obama is totally against this energy plan as well. He contends that it will only help a few pennies. His plan? Tax the oil companies profits by 25%. Tell the oil companies to drill somewhere else. Sen Obama if 8.5c per gallon of gas is too much profit how about the 18c a gallon that federal taxes take? And that does not include state taxes. By your standards the Government is making more than twice the profits that the oil companies do!

[sjslhill]

And just so everyone here knows...
We have

New energy star rated windows
Energy star rated furnace
Thermostat
28 mpg gallon highway van....5 family members or we would drive something smaller
All new bulbs in the house that do not last 5 years like they stated and we have saved energy but lost money on those.
We have driven 75% less in 2008 ytd vs 2007
Looking into windmill to charge batteries for lighting

We are doing our part and not just slinging words here.

[Bill-SOCAL]

The Geological Survey and Congressional Research Service say it's 95 percent likely that there are 15.6 billion barrels of oil beneath ANWR. With today's prices and technology, 60 percent of that is recoverable. .

Can you please cite the source for this information??

[sjslhill]

I saw it here amoung other places
http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=15611

Paul Driessen is senior policy advisor for the Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow and Congress of Racial Equality and, and author of Eco-Imperialism: Green power -- Black death.

[sjslhill]

Everyone constantly talks about trade...we import more than export...

GeeWizz, we can stop OIL imports, all we need to do is drill. This is Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooo simple.

[sjslhill]

But maybe you anti drill guys are correct...

Maybe I'll start "Free the Colorado River" We will want to tear down the Hoover damn and free the river. I wonder what LA would think of that.

[RCprince]

"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way."
Franklin Delano Roosevelt (1882-1945), 32nd US President

[sjslhill]

You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else

Winston Churchill

[RCprince]

lol

[RCprince]

"In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill ... All these dangers are caused by human intervention and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy, then, is humanity itself."
Alexander King, Bertrand Schneider - founder and secretary, respectively, of the Club of Rome - The First Global Revolution, pp.104-105

[Bill-SOCAL]

I saw it here amoung other places
http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=15611


Perhaps actually going to the source (oil joke) would help. Here is the official United States Geological Survey study on ANWR:

http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-0028-01/fs-0028-01.htm

Here is the summary:


Summary

In anticipation of the need for scientific support for policy decisions and in light of the decade-old perspective of a previous assessment, the USGS has completed a reassessment of the petroleum potential of the ANWR 1002 area. This was a comprehensive study by a team of USGS scientists in collaboration on technical issues (but not the assessment) with colleagues in other agencies and universities. The study incorporated all available public data and included new field and analytic work as well as the reevaluation of all previous work.

Using a methodology similar to that used in previous USGS assessments in the ANWR and the National Petroleum Reserve—Alaska, this study estimates that the total quantity of technically recoverable oil in the 1002 area is 7.7 BBO (mean value), which is distributed among 10 plays. Most of the oil is estimated to occur in the western, undeformed part of the ANWR 1002 area, which is closest to existing infrastructure. Furthermore, the oil is expected to occur in a number of accumulations rather than a single large accumulation.

So the actual number, as estimated by the USGS, is an average of 7.7 BBO. Call it 8.


Sadly, your source decided to use the high end number (95th percentile = 5% probability) and misrepresented what that means.

Regardless, there is oil there, no question. I can absolutely verify that from personal experience having actually seen the well logs of the first well and having done some of the early work there (from a nice office in Houston).

But that is not the point. The assumption that we can drill our way out of the fix we are in is just wrong. Sorry, but no matter what you may think, we simply do not have enough oil to supply our needs. We are consuming about 8 BBO per year in this country. We currently produce about 1.8 BBO per year (call it 2). So we use 4 times as much as we produce. We would need to produce 4 times as much oil as we currently do just to break even.

BTW - the nice deep water production that is just coming on line, well a few of those are fields I worked on 20 years ago!!!

The US has an estimated 20 to 30 BBO proven reserves right now. For comparison Saudi Arabia has about 265 BBO estimated proven reserves. Around 8 to 9 times what we have.

So again, the concept that we have enough oil to supply all out needs is simply wrong.

The idea that ANWR will have a big impact on prices, is simply wrong. Even the industry estimates that it would drop prices at the pump by no more than 10 cents or so.

To base your opinions on anything other than the actual verified numbers compiled by the USGS, the Mineral Management Service and industry supplied data is just nothing more than wishful thinking.

Oil Shale is going to be a big thing, with around a trillion (that is 1,000 billion) barrels of oil equivalent estimated. But it will be costly and we are not there yet price wise. But long term, it is there and once we are desperate enough for it to pay the costs, then we will go after it. A trillion barrels will supply us for 125 years at current consumption. But it will be very expensive and I think it will be a last resort due to so many concerns about how to produce it and how to refine it.

Sources:

Consumption:
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_cons_psup_dc_nus_mbblpd_a.htm

Production:
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_crd_crpdn_adc_mbblpd_a.htm

Reserves:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/reserves.html

Green River Oil Shale:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/archive/aeo05/conf/dammer/dammer.ppt

[Darin Jordan]

Thanks Bill... that's the kind of verifiable information I like to read...

Now excuse me while I go try to figure out exactly what you just said! ;)

[RCprince]

"It's been demonstrated that well within two minutes of watching television, most people enter a hypnotic alpha state bordering on theta. Viewers in this state are no longer able to critically evaluate, discern, or pass judgement from their own moral database on the material being viewed. The information just flows, unimpeded, into their subconscious year in and year out."
Jeff Rense, talk-radio host

[Dr. Jet]

"It's been demonstrated that well within two minutes of watching television, most people enter a hypnotic alpha state bordering on theta. Viewers in this state are no longer able to critically evaluate, discern, or pass judgement from their own moral database on the material being viewed. The information just flows, unimpeded, into their subconscious year in and year out."
Jeff Rense, talk-radio host

Jeeze, I haven't watched television in over two decades. I've never seen an episode of Cheers, Seinfeld, Everyone Loves Raymond, or whatever. I don't know who shot JR. I've never seen Miami Vice. I think the last thing I watched was Twilight Zone and Star Trek and that was in the '70s.

Come to think of it, Twighlight Zone and Star Trek make more sense than most of what is on TV now.

Maybe that is why I'm such a Right-Wing Extremist.

[sjslhill]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080731/ap_on_re_us/california_budget

Democratic and Republican lawmakers remain divided over how to close a $15.2 billion deficit, with Democrats favoring $8.2 billion in new taxes on corporations and the state's wealthiest residents. Republicans want a spending cap and oppose tax increases.

Tax them into moving, on second thought, don't, we don't want them here.

[sjslhill]

California is the last state with a fiscal year that begins July 1 that still does not have a budget. It is facing a $15.2 billion deficit, dwarfing that of all other states. The next highest at the start of the fiscal year was New York's, at $5.2 billion.

Okay BillSoCal, what's your plan dude?

[Bill-SOCAL]

Nice change of subject there Steve. I assume you are reading the sources I cited so you can form a more educated opinion. Good deal.

The California budget situation is an every year thing here. One issue is that nearly 90% of our budget is locked by law with automatic increases, etc. The amount of discretionary flexibility that they have is very little. Thanks to Proposition 13 and others like it the cash flow also varies wildly. SO every year they have to wrestle with what to do.

We recalled Gray Davis, got Arnold, and are no better off. This is due to the built in budget items that nobody actually controls. Stupid situation. Sadly much of it is due to our unique ability to govern by referendum. So we end up with things that make no sense, but it is what people want. Sad truth is that sometimes the people don't fully grasp what they are voting for.

They are talking about increases in income tax for individuals making over $200K per year. Most of us here make well less than that, yet we are manipulated into thinking that "they" want to raise "our" taxes.

So it goes in the Golden State. But I am curious how in your mind the budget situation in my state reflects either on my opinions or on anything that we have been discussing?

[sjslhill]

I think your solutions reflect the same situation that your in......

Don't drill
Don't build coal plants to make electricty
Pay high taxes but
Spend, spend, spend, spend, spend

It's $100,000 for individuals and $200,000 per family the last time I looked.

What the hell is $100K in Ca anyway, the poverty level?

I don't have the time to look into your worry about getting some oil on a polar bear or something. If there is not any oil there, why are they talking about it?


Your right, we have no oil and need to stop buying it tomorrow.....

Sod house and horses for all Americans......maybe two horses in every stall or something, yes, that's it.

Have fun when Obama and CA taxes the hell out of your ass. LOL

[sjslhill]

Oh I forgot one thing....

Stop using gasoline in your hobby and stop using those batteries that are made in Asia.

[Bill-SOCAL]

I think your solutions reflect the same situation that your in......

ANd I think you have not been paying attention.




Don't drill

Wrong. I want to drill. I just recognize that it will not solve our problem. But we need the oil and gas. Without it our economy will collapse. Petroleum is more than just fuel, it is also the feedstock for an overwhelming amount of our manufacturing processes, which is why it is stupid to burn it in our cars and to make electricity.



Don't build coal plants to make electricty

Wrong again. We have a butt load of coal and I think we should use it. But can you, or anyone, explain to me why we cannot do so without fouling the air?? We have the technology, so let's use it. It is the power companies who don't want to do it for cost reasons. And that seems OK with folks like you. But then you turn around and say let's go after oil shale that will cost an order of magnitude more than it will to have clean coal burning plants. That makes no sense to me.



Pay high taxes but
Spend, spend, spend, spend, spend

This is amusing. On the Federal level it is the conservative (allegedly so) administration that has set new records in spending and the size of government. Yet somehow they have convinced you that it is liberals who are the spenders!! And when a liberal administration takes over and has to raise taxes to pay the bill for the previous administrations spending you all say, "see, there you go".

As far as California goes, again, the vast majority of our spending is locked in and cannot be changed by much. What can be changed are revenues, and due to the bizarre referendum process we have in this state it is often the good people themselves who back us into the corner we are in.




It's $100,000 for individuals and $200,000 per family the last time I looked.

What the hell is $100K in Ca anyway, the poverty level?

Median household income in California is $56,645. For the US it is $48,451

http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/28/real_estate/wealthiest_states/index.htm

$100K per year here in CA is still upper 5%. So again most people will not pay higher taxes.



I don't have the time to look into your worry about getting some oil on a polar bear or something. If there is not any oil there, why are they talking about it?

I have no idea what you are talking about here.




Your right, we have no oil and need to stop buying it tomorrow.....

Or here. We have oil. We do not have enough to free us from foreign oil. We do not have enough to last forever. And we certainly don't have enough to keep wasting it by burning it in our cars.

[sjslhill]

I agree with everything you just said....look above and you will see that I stated that Bush spent us into major problems with the war in Iraq.

The next president is in for a real shocker and won't be in 8 years....

I am assuming that property values has greatly reduced the tax base in CA

[sjslhill]

Yorba Linda, California, where six-figure incomes are the rule, had the highest median income at $121,075. The Orange County town is considerably wealthier than the second place city, Pleasanton, California, in the Bay area, which had a median income of $105,956

Get ready to pay up......

[Dr. Jet]

Jeeze, I make $100K and I'm barely squeaking by. :eek: I didn't know I was "rich". No way am I in the upper 5%.

Raising taxes actually reduces total revenues. Reducing taxes increases revenues. Of course, this is to a point, I realize if taxes were 0%, there would be no revenue; conversely if you were taxed at 100% would you go to work in the morning?

Truman cut taxes, revenues went up above prior years (taking into account inflation and population growth).
Kennedy cut taxes, revenues went up above prior years (taking into account inflation and population growth).
Reagan cut taxes, revenues went up above prior years. (taking into account inflation and population growth).
Bush cut taxes, revenues went up above prior years (taking into account inflation and population growth).

Hmmmm..... Is there a pattern here?


How many poor people hire workers?
The "rich" already pay the major portion of the taxes. Taxing them more will only make them go someplace else.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Jeeze, I make $100K and I'm barely squeaking by. :eek: I didn't know I was "rich". No way am I in the upper 5%.


And yet you are.

Fully 90% of people surveyed think of themselves as "middle class".

And keep in mind that those figures are HOUSEHOLD income. As a single wage earner at or above $100K you are indeed in a small group.

[RCprince]

"This Act (the Federal Reserve Act, Dec. 23rd 1913) establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President (Woodrow Wilson) signs the Bill, the invisible government of the Monetary Power will be legalised... The worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency Bill."
Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr.

[sjslhill]

Both parties are in this club.... :glare:


"This Act (the Federal Reserve Act, Dec. 23rd 1913) establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President (Woodrow Wilson) signs the Bill, the invisible government of the Monetary Power will be legalised... The worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency Bill."
Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr.

[sjslhill]

You may want to ask for pay cut to get below the Obama tax hike.....:sorry: Your going to pay if your above that $100k mark. Remember you need to help with the social programs. Illegals need health care and all, ect. :iagree:

Maybe this will increase the boat clubs and people under $100K can buy Neu motors and Castle controllers and Enerland 10S2P packs.....LOL


Jeeze, I make $100K and I'm barely squeaking by. :eek: I didn't know I was "rich". No way am I in the upper 5%.

Raising taxes actually reduces total revenues. Reducing taxes increases revenues. Of course, this is to a point, I realize if taxes were 0%, there would be no revenue; conversely if you were taxed at 100% would you go to work in the morning?

Truman cut taxes, revenues went up above prior years (taking into account inflation and population growth).
Kennedy cut taxes, revenues went up above prior years (taking into account inflation and population growth).
Reagan cut taxes, revenues went up above prior years. (taking into account inflation and population growth).
Bush cut taxes, revenues went up above prior years (taking into account inflation and population growth).

Hmmmm..... Is there a pattern here?


How many poor people hire workers?
The "rich" already pay the major portion of the taxes. Taxing them more will only make them go someplace else.

[Dr. Jet]

And yet you are.


Rich?

Only as described by a group of politicians. My newest car is a 2001 PT Cruiser, not a new Royce Silver Shadow or Lambo. I have a 1700 SF house, not a 40-room mansion. Yes, I have a glider (it cost 1/2 of what the Cruiser did). I don't fly around in private jets.

Yet these politicians think I need to be punished for working hard every day because I'm the filthy rich guy. And you clowns fall for this "Tax the Rich" Class-envy rhetoric.

No wonder I'm a right-wing extremist.

Tax the poor!!

[sjslhill]

Get out the drilling hat Obama and Pelosi

Barack Obama's recent overseas trip didn't afford him a bump in the polls, according to a new round of surveys from Quinnipiac University, at a time when offshore oil drilling, which Obama opposes, appeals to an increasing number of Americans.

[RCprince]

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father

[sjslhill]

This is going on today as we type......however, people are into too much material things, that's why I get ticked off at the massive changes we made in the R/C Hobby. Some smaller changes would have been better in my opinon. There is no doubt we needed to go LiPoly but we blew things out of the water by going with these massive motors and parallel packs....just my 2 cents. I choose to not race now. that's another subject....



"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father

[Dr. Jet]

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), US Founding Father

Never have there been so many brilliant minds in one place, as when Thomas Jefferson dined alone in the White House.

Johnny-Boy and Barry don't have what it takes to lick his boots.

Where are the patriotic Americans? :patriot:

Dr. Jet for President!!

[RCprince]

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies."
Thomas Jefferson

[RCprince]

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance."
James Madison (1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President

[Dr. Jet]

.......that's why I get ticked off at the massive changes we made in the R/C Hobby.......we blew things out of the water by going with these massive motors and parallel packs....just my 2 cents.

That is one reason the SLOBS have decided to go the cheap route. I have just as much fun with my cheap little boats as other guys do with the big guns. In fact, maybe I have more fun, because my stuff isn't breaking down all the time. Another benefit of NOT being on the cutting-edge of technology.

[RCprince]

Agree Dr.Jet, My SV does over 50 with 60 bucks investment....

[Darin Jordan]

In fact, maybe I have more fun, because my stuff isn't breaking down all the time.

I'm always curious as to where these sentiments come from... In the past couple of seasons, since switching to Lipo tech and quality motors, our club has experienced fewer "break downs" than ever... and I haven't burnt anything up in the entire time I've been doing this, save for a couple sets of NiMH packs that let go...

Flipping... sure... Thermalling... Yup (well... for those who insist on using Schultz controllers, anyhow...)... but outright burning things up... I think that notion is way overblown... Doesn't happen very often, and if it does, it's usually due to someone doing something they shouldn't have been doing in the first place, like plugging two 4S packs into an SV27 controller... which, incidently, is REALLY fast for about 20-seconds... then :flashfire:


All that said, however... Our club is persuing options for spec motored classes for next season. There are some good options available out there with the BJ26 and SV27 motors, and the new AQ Sport Hydro should be coming online shortly as well... Once could conceivably run a whole fleet of spec classed boats and have a great time... A Mono (LSO), a Sport Hydro (LSH), an tunnel (P-OPC), and we're working on a spec 4S rigger as well... Add our 1/10th scales to the mix and you have an entire fleet of boats that you can race all weekend... all using the same cells, motors, and ESCs... AND, since more people can afford to compete... racing is better...

I think there is a place for both big and little boats, and I refuse to believe that one is any more fun than the other... just different.

It's all good! Now that we have the runaway expenses of racing in check some, we can concentrate on developing classes that draw people...

The future of NAMBA and IMPBA is bright by all indications... Good times to come! :welcome:

[Bill-SOCAL]

Boat racing (competition) is particularly sensitive to costs due to the fact that we race so many different classes. In the airplane world you generally have one primary aircraft and a back up perhaps for any given type of competition. You fly pattern, you have one or 2 pattern planes. You fly IMAC, thermal duration, etc. same deal. Even pylon racing you have a primary and maybe a back up or two.

But in FE racing you could have 33 different boats and that can add up in a hurry.

I think what Darin and those guys are doing in the PNW makes a lot of sense. Focus in on a few essentially spec classes. People can build several boats and go racing without busting the bank. We could do essentially the same thing by simply limiting the number of competitive racing classes. P power. Mono/Cat/Rigger/Sport Hydro.

Whatever. But as long as the class count is high and the cost structure prohibitive, then we will likely not see much growth.

Gas racing took this cue when looking at the nitro world. That's why there are not many gas classes, and they are built around reasonable equipment. Most gas guys have 3 or 4, maybe 5 boats at a race. But they do 4 heats per class and many boats can be raced in at least 2 classes. With 3 boats I can race 8 classes at our District races. 32 heats in a weekend. Tons of racing action without needing a semi truck to transport all your boats or a second mortgage to buy all the equipment.

[Doug Smock]

Four cell and open right?? That is sure to promote growth!:banana:


Doug

[sjslhill]

I just bought a BL motor and esc for $57.....that's what I am going to do. I don't need to pay Aqua Craft some fee just because they show up for a race and give key people free stuff to add the classes. You guys keep on doing this crap, have fun, I won't be joining you.

[Darin Jordan]

Brian ran his SV27 powered LSH boat on 4S1P against our "open" N2-Sport boats this past weekend... He was VERY competitive in every heat... running out front every time...

So, one has to ask themselves exactly WHAT the point would be to running the same hull and same number of batteries, but spending up to $400.00 more on a power system in N2, vs. an SV27/Lipo powered LSH setup? Especially now that "officially", NAMBA races are to be run for a 1-mile distance, same as LSH used to solely do?

Just need to figure out how to write a set of motor spec rules that make sense... Kind of like the LSH rules are currently... With the examples we currently have, that wouldn't be too hard to pull off. Then you'd have two very viable and affordable classes... LSH and LSO, both 4S1P capable classes... with the added benefit that LSO allows Cats as well, so the SV27s AND BJ26's would both be legal... along with any number of other currently "orphaned" hulls...

Just remember as we are discussing this... I'm ONLY talking about this at our local CLUB level... If the rest of the country want's to join in, I'll be happy to leave it up to them to join in on the fun... I'm certainly not looking to get any NAMBA rules changed at this time... Though, at some point, SOMEONE is going to have to put something forth to get the motors updated for LSH and LSO... Are there any racers out there even running 700s any longer??

[Darin Jordan]

I just bought a BL motor and esc for $57.....that's what I am going to do. I don't need to pay Aqua Craft some fee just because they show up for a race and give key people free stuff to add the classes. You guys keep on doing this crap, have fun, I won't be joining you.

Steve... I REALLY wish I know what the He!! you were talking about most of the time... :confused2: :confused1:

Last time I checked... PSFEMBC members PURCHASED, at full retail, their SV27 equipment, and built a class around it... So did Ken Haines' group in Florida, and I'm pretty sure the rest of the country did as well...

You really need to get your facts straight or :zip-up:

[ReddyWatts]

It is the power companies who don't want to do it for cost reasons. And that seems OK with folks like you. But then you turn around and say let's go after oil shale that will cost an order of magnitude more than it will to have clean coal burning plants.

Our power company tried to get permits to build 10 new coal plants and actually lower our over all emissions in Texas, using new technologies. The EPA applied pressure against more coal power and only 2 plants were approved. Now we are gearing up to build nuclear plants, which are way more expensive. Wind generation is growing like crazyand billions of dollars are being spent to build new power lines to the Texas Panhandle for adding more wind generation.

[sjslhill]

Are you really that naive? :w00t:




Steve... I REALLY wish I know what the He!! you were talking about most of the time... :confused2: :confused1:

Last time I checked... PSFEMBC members PURCHASED, at full retail, their SV27 equipment, and built a class around it... So did Ken Haines' group in Florida, and I'm pretty sure the rest of the country did as well...

You really need to get your facts straight or :zip-up:

[Darin Jordan]

Are you really that naive? :w00t:


Considering the facts that I wrote the rules, and I AM a PSFEMBC member, and I participated in the class... I'd say I'm just a LITTLE more in the know that you are...

Frankly, you obviously have NO idea what you are talking about here... :glare:

Either that, or you are purposefully doing this just to get a rise out of some of us...

That would be a more logical explanation for your thoughts... :noidea:

If you look back through the forums... you'll see that I was one of the first of a wave of people to BUY their own SV27s, post thoughts on how to race prep it, and to work on creating the class... AquaCraft didn't join in until WELL after we had the class established... They DID provide props for the event... to EVERYONE, and provided an SV27 to raffle...

Sure sounds like a "conspiracy" to me... :spy:

[Bill-SOCAL]

Four cell and open right?? That is sure to promote growth!:banana:


Doug


In the words of Buzz Lightyear - "Are you mocking me??"

But yes, something like that. Plain fact is I think we have so many classes that people coming into the sport have no idea what to get, what's being raced and so on. Out here we have a bunch of FE guys, and no 3 of us have the same boats so we can never race.

33 classes spreads things out too much. I would even go with the idea of mono/cat/rigger/sport hydro - 2S and 4S plus Open. 9 classes. Maybe even go one step farther and make them spec classes. Surely that is enough classes for people to find some fun.

But as it is now we make up classes as we go along. It seems that boat racing is built around the idea that we need a class for any possible boat rather than saying these are the classes we race. Pick one and see you at the starting line.

[sjslhill]

Darin,

You probably think the ERCU are ran by virgins as well. I don't have time for your crap Darin....just keep on what your doing. Have fun with those crooked as snake Campbell brothers.

[sjslhill]

Bill.

You are so correct......it's totally out of control.

You guys need unlimited Hydro, Tunnel, Rigger and Mono
And Spec Hydro, Tunnel, Rigger and Mono

that's all you need.

thanks,
Steve



In the words of Buzz Lightyear - "Are you mocking me??"

But yes, something like that. Plain fact is I think we have so many classes that people coming into the sport have no idea what to get, what's being raced and so on. Out here we have a bunch of FE guys, and no 3 of us have the same boats so we can never race.

33 classes spreads things out too much. I would even go with the idea of mono/cat/rigger/sport hydro - 2S and 4S plus Open. 9 classes. Maybe even go one step farther and make them spec classes. Surely that is enough classes for people to find some fun.

But as it is now we make up classes as we go along. It seems that boat racing is built around the idea that we need a class for any possible boat rather than saying these are the classes we race. Pick one and see you at the starting line.

[RCprince]

Ok guys lets keep our cross hairs on uncle SAM and how he's raping all of us and not each other.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Our power company tried to get permits to build 10 new coal plants and actually lower our over all emissions in Texas, using new technologies.

The plants TXU proposed to build did not, in fact, plan to use the most current technology. Rather they were going to use earlier technology which would have resulted in significant emissions..

[Darin Jordan]

Darin,

You probably think the ERCU are ran by virgins as well. I don't have time for your crap Darin....just keep on what your doing. Have fun with those crooked as snake Campbell brothers.

Hmmm... I don't race E-RCU, but I do know all about the Cambell's and their antics... Not even relavent to this now WAY off-topic conversation!

Again, if you don't know what you are talking about, you really should :tape: ... Anyone whose been on this or any of the other sites long enough knows how things REALLY have progressed and I'm sure they have no idea what you are talking about either...

Oh, and I WILL keep doing what I'm doing... we are apparently having a LOT more fun than some around here... :olleyes:


Now... :focus:

[sjslhill]

Darin,

People call here and talk about what is going on. I never stated that your club did anything.

I am done with this....

[Darin Jordan]

People call here and talk about what is going on.

I'm sure they're in the "know" as well... :olleyes:




I am done with this....

As usual... it's been a pleasure... :laugh:

[Dr. Jet]

Darin,

You're taking me out of context here. What I am saying is when operating on the cutting edge (not tried-and-true setups), breakdowns are more frequent.

[Doug Smock]

[QUOTE=Bill-SOCAL;48595]In the words of Buzz Lightyear - "Are you mocking me??"
QUOTE]

Maybe a little;)

We think it's a little early in the game to start eliminating classes. We're thinking we should let the new FE evolve just as the old one did. The classes that have little or no participation will die a natural death, (as it should be) we don't have to kill them.

:focus:

:sorry:
Doug

[Darin Jordan]

We think it's a little early in the game to start eliminating classes. We're thinking we should let the new FE evolve just as the old one did. The classes that have little or no participation will die a natural death, (as it should be) we don't have to kill them.

Doug,

That's EXACTLY right... and exactly what our club is doing... We're working within the existing classes to see what sticks...

Again, the only thing I can see that needs to be updated at this point are the motor allowances for LSH and LSO... especially since most around the country are already running the "spec" motors... or some variance there-of...

Dr. Jet... You are right... I may have taken you out of context... Sorry about that... You are right... :iagree:

[Bill-SOCAL]

I more or less agree and I am not saying this needs to happen right now. One thing that occurred to me at the FE NATS was the idea that a class should be dropped if it does not get 3 entries for 2 consecutive years. That way it is a more or less natural selection thing. Why carry classes that people are not racing??

Just a thought.

[ReddyWatts]

The plants TXU proposed to build did not, in fact, plan to use the most current technology. Rather they were going to use earlier technology which would have resulted in significant emissions..


The most current technology is still in testing stages. TXU's plan was updating their current plants with proven technology to stay at their current level while adding 10 plants. TXU wants to use the best technology and has even bid on building plants for testing the tech you mentioned.

[sjslhill]

Wow, if Obama wins we get another $1,000, this time from the oil companies.

I would hate to get the job myself, whoever gets it is going to have to raise taxes and cut spending.

[Doozie870]

"I just bought a BL motor and esc for $57.....that's what I am going to do."

Sounds interesting what are you working on, if you do not mind sharing.

[Dr. Jet]

:focus:

let's get back to the political bashing. :bash:

We can talk setups in another thread.

[sjslhill]

:buttrock: and not spend the farm doing it. :w00t:



"I just bought a BL motor and esc for $57.....that's what I am going to do."

Sounds interesting what are you working on, if you do not mind sharing.

[sjslhill]

Political bashing? We have two great people to vote for, how can we lose? LOL

[dirtysouth31]

Agree Dr.Jet, My SV does over 50 with 60 bucks investment....
over 50?is that mph or km?do the laws of physics ceast to exist in your pond!did you buy your sv from the same guy that sold jack his magic beanstalk beans?60 bucks investment?find that hard to believe..before some neeb sees that bold statement and thinks he will be king of the pond how about doing something the presidential candidates can't do and tell the truth..getting tired of these bullsh*t posts

[Doug Smock]

over 50?is that mph or km?do the laws of physics ceast to exist in your pond!did you buy your sv from the same guy that sold jack his magic beanstalk beans?60 bucks investment?find that hard to believe..before some neeb sees that bold statement and thinks he will be king of the pond how about doing something the presidential candidates can't do and tell the truth..getting tired of these bullsh*t posts

:bounce: He said political bashing:bounce: ;)


Doug

[dirtysouth31]

back to your regular schedule bashing

[RCprince]

Dirty read my threads, 2-3s lipos(2200 25c) my cousin brought back from china on his 3 week stay 19 dollars each and a 24 dollar esc 60amps 2-7s. powered by a BJ motor and a x440 and now back to our previously schedule programming.

[sjslhill]

Obama shifts position on offshore oil drilling,

Drill, drill, drill

[sjslhill]

McCain chides Obama over school vouchers

It seems that Obama wants NO change in this area. The same old solution by teacher unions and public schools. Gee, I wonder why Obama never went to public school?

"My opponent talks a great deal about hope and change, and education is as good a test as any of his seriousness," he said. "If Sen. Obama continues to defer to the teachers unions instead of committing to real reform, then he should start looking for new slogans."

[Bill-SOCAL]

Obama shifts position on offshore oil drilling,

Drill, drill, drill

As did McCain. And McCain has shifted positions not just on drilling, but on other issues as well. He was against it until about a month ago, now he is for it. He was for campaign finance reform (in fact passed a bill with his name on it) now he is against it. He was for immigration reform, now he is against it. He voted against MLK holidays several times, now he is OK with it.

And so it goes.

In the end I think these are the most superficial of attacks, for either side. So what we are saying is that regardless of changing circumstances or new information one must NEVER change their position for fear of being labeled a "flip-flopper" (thank you Karl Rove).

Personally I prefer people who can think, analyze information, and if necessary change their minds based on new information.

[sjslhill]

McCain shifted....dah, :iagree:

I am just waiting until Pelosi has too allow the vote. :bounce:

Obama is great compared to her....what is the Congressional rating now 10% approval? :w00t:




As did McCain. And McCain has shifted positions not just on drilling, but on other issues as well. He was against it until about a month ago, now he is for it. He was for campaign finance reform (in fact passed a bill with his name on it) now he is against it. He was for immigration reform, now he is against it. He voted against MLK holidays several times, now he is OK with it.

And so it goes.

In the end I think these are the most superficial of attacks, for either side. So what we are saying is that regardless of changing circumstances or new information one must NEVER change their position for fear of being labeled a "flip-flopper" (thank you Karl Rove).

Personally I prefer people who can think, analyze information, and if necessary change their minds based on new information.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Again, this is a silly issue. Yes, we will need to drill all our resources, but thinking that it will ave any short term impact on prices shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how this works.

Let me remind you that they are just now (2007) starting to produce resources from offshore blocks that I worked on 25 years ago!!

Congress has a low rating to be sure. But it is shared blame. The Democrats lack the necessary majority to get anything done and the Republicans have consistently blocked their efforts by use of the filibuster. I think people are tired of the BS from both sides.

[RCprince]

To hell with drilling, digging, and the dumbness of the masses, insanity is doing the samething over and over and expecting different results....Nuclear, Wind, solar and Hydro energy is all we need case close.

[sjslhill]

I think people are tired of the BS from both sides....:iagree:





Again, this is a silly issue. Yes, we will need to drill all our resources, but thinking that it will ave any short term impact on prices shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how this works.

Let me remind you that they are just now (2007) starting to produce resources from offshore blocks that I worked on 25 years ago!!

Congress has a low rating to be sure. But it is shared blame. The Democrats lack the necessary majority to get anything done and the Republicans have consistently blocked their efforts by use of the filibuster. I think people are tired of the BS from both sides.

[ReddyWatts]

I agree, but the USA uses 570,000,000,000,000 Watts (570 Gigawatts) of electric power, 1/2 is powered by coal. A wind generator only produces 1.5MW, enough to power 400 homes. No nuclear plants have been built since the 3 mile island accident in the 70's, due to new goverment regulations. We are a long ways from not needing coal as a power source and expect your electric rates to drastically increase to reduce our using an abundant power source with dirty emissions. IMO, this is why we are in a pollution mess.

[sjslhill]

Sod house and small windmills to charge batteries for R/C boats :bounce:


I agree, but the USA uses 570,000,000,000,000 Watts (570 Gigawatts) of power, 1/2 is powered by coal. A wind generator only produces 1.5MW, enough to power 400 homes. No nuclear plants have been built since the 3 mile island accident in the 70's, due to new goverment regulations. We are a long ways from not needing coal as a power source and expect your electric rates to drastically increase to reduce using an abundant power source with dirty emissions. This is why we are in a pollution mess.

[RCprince]

Reddy I agree, but the masses don't realize nuclear power have killed few people in comparison to collateral casualties of fossil fuels(is all based on fear and no research)...I'd rather live within a mile of a nuclear plant than within 10 miles of an oil refinery or coal burning plant. RISKS OF NUCLEAR POWER: http://physics.isu.edu/radinf/np-risk.htm

[sjslhill]

I sure wish the plants here were nukes, we have coal burners every 15-20 miles up and down the Ohio river. Better yet, shut them all down except for what we need here local :iagree: You guys can build your own. :sorry:


Reddy I agree, but the masses don't realize nuclear power have killed few people in comparison to collateral casualties of fossil fuels(is all based on fear and no research)...I'd rather live within a mile of a nuclear plant than within 10 miles of an oil refinery or coal burning plant. RISKS OF NUCLEAR POWER: http://physics.isu.edu/radinf/np-risk.htm

[RCprince]

I'd love to build my own Nuclear power plant, aero plant, hydro plant, solar plant anything but a damn oil or coal plant

[ReddyWatts]

We also use natural gas to produce power, but I was told it is soon to be in a major short supply or run out in the next ten years. They already have to store it up in underground caverns during off peak usage to have enough for winter load.

[sjslhill]

Hydro plants are going up along the Ky. river, should be nice....

Darn coal puffers are everywhere here.:flashfire:

Natural Gas would be better......



I'd love to build my own Nuclear power plant, aero plant, hydro plant, solar plant anything but a damn oil or coal plant

[RCprince]

We also use natural gas to produce power, but I was told it is soon to be in a major short supply or run out in the next ten years. They already have to store it up in underground caverns during off peak usage to have enough for winter load.

That my point Reddy, this backwards thinking generation and the couple prior. Sun, Rain,Air and fusion is abundant...I once believed those elements we removed from the earth will cause us great harm oneday.

[ReddyWatts]

The kicker is the electric user pays a higher price for the clean power. The new equipment and operation costs are added to your electric bill. Power lines and substations from the wind gen farms have to be build to transfer power to the cities. We have an open electric grid here. You can buy electricity from about 25 different competitive companies. Open competition should lower your bill right? Ours has increased by 50% since competition started.

[Doozie870]

I have heard that neo magnets from a hardware store (when stacked up) can slow down, stop, or in some instances with the proper placement make the meter run backwards. I personally would never try such a dirty thing.

[ReddyWatts]

Electric billing technology is changing. It is going to microprocessor meters with no mechanical disks. They will communicate with all your home appliances and air conditioner for realtime usage readings that the customer can view 24/7. It can also transmit your meter reading over the power lines to the main office and disconnect your electric service remotely .

It wont be long until someone will be trying to reprogram it for a cheaper rate. ha

[RCprince]

hackers are salivating....

[Ocean Racer]

Sorry if it sounds like im mad. But man what a thread i start it with a picture and then it changes to motors. Owell at least i dont care to much what you guys post on here or talk about just stay withn the member rules. Im not like some guys who make you stay on subject. Im fine with you guys changing subject. Currently this is my most productive thread thank you all for the post keep it going.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Am I the only one struck by the irony of comments about staying "On Topic" in the "Off Topic" forum.

It has been some fun!

[Dr. Jet]

Hey what about the Brett Favre deal? :sorry:

[Doug Smock]

I thought this was cute.....

[Doozie870]

Lol

[Ocean Racer]

That is a sweet shot of obama there D.Smock. Like i said i dont realy care what you guys talk about just keep in the R.O.S and will be good.

[Dr. Jet]

:focus:

This is very well written and I recommend everyone take a little time to read this entire write-up. You won't be disappointed!


Dear Friends:

My name is Joe Porter . I live in Champaign , Illinois . I'm 46 years old, a born-again Christian, a husband, a father, a small business owner, a veteran, and a homeowner. I don't considerable myself to be either conservative or liberal, and I vote for the person, not Republican or Democrat I don't believe there are "two Americas" - but that every person in this country can be whomever and whatever they want to be if they'll just work to get there - and nowhere else on earth can they find such opportunities. I believe our government should help those who are legitimately downtrodden, and should always put the interests of America first.

The purpose of this message is that I'm concerned about the future of this great nation. I'm worried that the silent majority of honest, hard-working, tax-paying people in this country have been passive for too long. Most folks I know choose not to involve themselves in politics. They go about their daily lives, paying their bills, raising their kids, and doing what they can to maintain the good life. They vote and consider doing so to be a sacred trust. They shake their heads at the political pundits and so-called "news", thinking that what they hear is always spun by whoever is reporting it. They can't understand how elected officials can regularly violate the public trust with pork barrel spending. They don't want government handouts. They want the government to protect them, not raise their taxes for more government programs.

We are in the unique position in this country of electing our leaders. It's a privilege to do so. I've never found a candidate in any election with whom I agreed on everything. I'll wager that most of us don't even agree with our families or spouse s 100% of the time. So when I step into that voting booth, I always try to look at the big picture and cast my vote for the man or woman who is best qualified for the job. I've hired a lot of people in my lifetime, and essentially that's what an election is - a hiring process. Who has the credentials? Whom do I want working for me? Whom can I trust to do the job right?

I'm concerned that a growing number of voters in this country simply don't get it. They are caught up in a fervor they can't explain, and calling it "change."

Change what?, I ask.

Well, we're going to change America , they say.

In what way? I query.

We want someone new and fresh in the White House, they exclaim.

So, someone who's not a politician?, I press.

Uh, well, no, we just want a lot of stuff changed, so we're voting for Obama, they state.

So the current system, the system of freedom and democracy that has enabled a man to grow up in this great country, get a fine education, raise incredible amounts of money and dominate the news and win his party's nomination for the White House - that system's all wrong?

No, no, that part of the system's okay - we just need a lot of change.

And so it goes. "Change we can believe in." Quite frankly, I don't believe that vague proclamations of change hold any promise for me. In recent months, I've been asking virtually everyone I encounter how they're voting. I live in Illinois, so most folks tell me they're voting for Barack Obama . But no one can really tell me why - only that he's going to change a lot of stuff. Change, change, change. I have yet to find one single person who can tell me distinctly and convincingly why this man is qualified to be President and Commander-in-Chief of the most powerful nation on earth - other than the fact that he claims he's going to implement a lot of change.

We've all seen the emails about Obama's genealogy, his upbringing, his Muslim background, and his church affiliations. Let's ignore this for a moment.

Put it all aside. Then ask yourself, what qualifies this man to be my president? That he's a brilliant orator and talks about change?

CHANGE WHAT?

Friends, I'll be forthright with you - I believe the American voters who are supporting Barack Obama don't have a clue what they're doing, as evidenced by the fact that not one of them - NOT ONE of them I've spoken to can spell out his qualifications. Not even the most liberal media can explain why he should be elected.

Political experience? Negligible.
Foreign relations? Non-existent.
Achievements? Name one.
Someone who wants to unite the country? If you haven't read his wife's thesis from Princeton, look it up on the web. This is who's lining up to be our next First Lady? The only thing I can glean from Obama's constant harping about change is that we're in for a lot of new taxes.

For me, the choice is clear. I've looked carefully at the two leading applicants for the job, and I've made my choice.
Here's a question - where were you five and a half years ago? Around Christmas, 2002. You've had five or six birthdays in that time. My son has grown from a sixth grade child to a high school graduate. Five and a half years is a good chunk of time. About 2,000 days. 2,000 nights of sleep. 6, 000 meals, give or take.

John McCain spent that amount of time, from 1967 to 1973, in a North Vietnamese prisoner-of-war camp.

When offered early release, he refused it. He considered this offer to be a public relations stunt by his captors, and insisted that those held longer than he should be released first. Did you get that part? He was offered his freedom, and he turned it down. A regimen of beatings and torture began.

Do you possess such strength of character? Locked in a filthy cell in a foreign country, would you turn down your own freedom in favor of your fellow man? I submit that's a quality of character that is rarely found, and for me, this singular act defines John McCain.

Unlike several presidential candidates in recent years whose military service is questionable or non-existent, you will not find anyone to denigrate the integrity and moral courage of this man. A graduate of Annapolis, during his Naval service he received the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. His own son is now serving in the Marine Corps in Iraq. Barack Obama is fond of saying "We honor John McCain's service...BUT...", which to me is condescending and offensive - because what I hear is, "Let's forget this man's sacrifice for his country and his proven leadership abilities, and talk some more about change."

I don't agree with John McCain on everything - but I am utterly convinced that he is qualified to be our next President, and I trust him to do what's right. I know in my heart that he has the best interests of our country in mind. He doesn't simply want to be President - he wants to lead America, and there's a huge difference.
Factually, there is simply no comparison between the two candidates. A man of questionable background and motives who prattles on about change can't hold a candle to a man who has devoted his life in public service to this nation, retiring from the Navy in 1981 and elected to the Senate in 1982.

Perhaps Obama's supporters are taking a stance between old and new. Maybe they don't care about McCain's service or his strength of character, or his unblemished qualifications to be President. Maybe "likeability" is a higher priority for them than "trust". Being a prisoner of war is not what qualifies John McCain to be President of the United States of America - but his demonstrated leadership certainly DOES.

Dear friends, it is time for us to stand. It is time for thinking Americans to say, "Enough. " It is time for people of all parties to stop following the party line. It is time for anyone who wants to keep America first, who wants the right man leading their nation, to start a dialogue with all their friends and neighbors and ask who they're voting for, and why.

There's a lot of evil in this world. That should be readily apparent to all of us by now. And when faced with that evil as we are now, I want a man who knows the cost of war on his troops and on his citizens. I want a man who puts my family's interests before any foreign country.

I want a President who's qualified to lead.

I want my country back, and I'm voting for John McCain.



:iagree:

[Doozie870]

I am leaning towards McCain at this juncture. No disrespect, but the middle east is childs play compared to what is going to happen in the Orient in particular with China.

[Dr. Jet]

........the middle east is childs play compared to what is going to happen in the Orient in particular with China.

:iagree:

[hebner]

It truly is a great barnyard -



"Cluck, cluck", said the little red hen.....



She called all of her barnyard neighbors together and said, 'If we plant this wheat, we shall have bread to eat. Who will help me plant it?'' Not I,' said the cow. 'Not I,' said the duck. 'Not I,' said the pig. 'Not I,' said the goose. 'Then I will do it by myself,' said the little red hen, and so she did.



The wheat grew very tall and ripened into golden grain. 'Who will help me reap my wheat?' asked the little red hen. 'Not I,' said the duck. 'Out of my classification,' said the pig. 'I'd lose my seniority,' said the cow. 'I'd lose my unemployment compensation,' said the goose. 'Then I will do it by myself,' said the little red hen, and so she did.



At last, it came time to bake the bread. 'Who will help me bake the bread?' asked the little red hen. 'That would be overtime for me,' said the cow. 'I'd lose my welfare benefits,' said the duck. 'I'm a dropout and never learned how,' said the pig. 'If I'm to be the only helper, that's discrimination,' said the goose. 'Then I will do it by myself,' said the little red hen. She baked five loaves and held them up for all of her neighbors to see. They wanted some and, in fact, demanded a share. But the little red hen said, 'No! I shall eat all five loaves.'



'Excess profits!' cried the cow (Nancy Pelosi).

'Capitalist leech!' screamed the duck (Barbara Boxer).

'I demand equal rights!' yelled the goose (Jesse Jackson).

The pig just grunted in disdain (Ted Kennedy).



In addition, they all painted 'Unfair!' picket signs and marched around and around the little red hen, shouting obscenities. Then the farmer (Obama) came. He said to the little red hen, 'You must not be so greedy.' 'But I earned the bread,' said the little red hen. 'Exactly,' said Barack the farmer. 'That is what makes our free enterprise system so wonderful. Anyone in the barnyard can earn as much as he wants. But under our modern government regulations, the productive workers must divide the fruits of their labor with those who are lazy and idle.' And they all lived happily ever after, including the little red hen, who smiled and clucked, 'I am grateful, for now I truly understand.' But her neighbors became quite disappointed in her. She never again baked bread because she joined the 'party' and got her bread free. And all the Democrats smiled. 'Fairness' had been established. Individual initiative had died, but nobody noticed; perhaps no one cared...so long as there was free bread that 'the rich' were paying for. EPILOGUE Bill Clinton is getting $12 million for his memoirs. Hillary got $8 million for hers. That is $20 million for the memories from two people, who for eight years, repeatedly testified under oath, that they could not remember anything. IS THIS A GREAT BARNYARD OR WHAT

[Quicksilver]

Question

Am I the only one here that feels a bit alienated by this and several other threads. I really like this site, but honestly I wish I never read this thread. I know it doesnt violate terms of the forums but it's definitely not healthy for it. Hell, I'm undecided in this election to be honest, but if you're gonna throw info up let it be facts and not propaganda. Since that's essentially what it is, have you guys actually looked at Obama's tax plan. It's not really that bad, I feel it's exaggerated.

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/06/12/GR2008061200193.gif
you guys all make over $600k?

[RCprince]

I make about 2 million lol.....Quick in the end it's all your decision and no one else is, do your research because in the end no matter who wins you are responsible for your life, surrogate politicians are given to much control over our lives. A man once said "Read everything, listen to everyone, but believe nothing unless you can prove it in your own research" the sad part about that is the latter of that statement is the reason we are in the financial crisis we are in, we vote for people and give them a 2, 4 and 6 year pass without any accountability. I think it's time for "Operation Clorox" clean house, the Senate, The Congress and The White House.

[Ctonez]

Question

Am I the only one here that feels a bit alienated by this and several other threads.


nope.


I really like this site, but honestly I wish I never read this thread. I know it doesnt violate terms of the forums but it's definitely not healthy for it. ... if you're gonna throw info up let it be facts and not propaganda.

...well stated Quicksilver.

[RCprince]

I am leaning towards McCain at this juncture. No disrespect, but the middle east is childs play compared to what is going to happen in the Orient in particular with China.

It's to late, Japan and China to name a few are buying up American Banks Debts. That means they will own your currency. Mayer Amschel Rothschild once said "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws." We are sleeping while our surrogate makes polices and law for us, BUSH senior told us about it in 1991, but we were blinded by the S&L Collapse"Neil Bush was a member of the board of directors of Denver-based Silverado Savings and Loan during the 1980s' larger Savings and Loan crisis. As his father was Vice President of the United States, his role in Silverado's failure was a focal point of publicity. According to a piece in Salon, Silverado's collapse cost taxpayers $1.3 billion in todays standards thats 2.3 billion" , a one world government, No national sovereignty, borderless countries. It's no longer US it's now 6.3 billion people and 1/5 of those people are from a nation buying up our debt.


You can check the current national Debt Here: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

1. Japan owns $578.7 billion, or 22.1%.
2. China owns $506.5 billion, or 19.4%.
3. The United Kingdom owns $272.5 billion, or 10.4%.
4. The next category is oil exporters that own $164.3 billion or 6.3%. The oil exporters category includes Qatar, Oman, Kuwait, Iraq, Iran, Bahrain, Indonesia, Venezuela, and Eqcuador.


This is when it was 2.2 trillion, The national debt on August 25, 2008 totals $9,621,536,885,603.88 trillion
http://www.fincher.org/images/2007-10-03-WhoOwnsNationalDebt.png

http://www.discursivemonologue.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/largest_hold.png




"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance."
James Madison (1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President


"We shall have a World government, whether or not we like it. The only question is whether World government will be achieved by conquest or consent."
James Paul Warburg, February 17, 1950, before the U.S. Senate

"We are going to end up with world government. It's inevitable ... There's going to be conflict, coercion and consensus. That's all part of what will be required as we give birth to the first global civilization."
James Garrison, president, Gorbachev Foundation USA; quoted in The Daily Record, Dunn, NC, p.4 10/17/95

"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way."
Franklin Delano Roosevelt (1882-1945), 32nd US President

"We are at present working discreetly with all our might to wrest this mysterious force called sovereignty out of the clutches of the local nation states of the world. All the time we are denying with our lips what we are doing with our hands."
Arnold Toynbee, "The Trend of International Affairs Since the War", International Affairs, November 1931, p. 809

"The owners and managers of the press determine which person, which facts, which version of the facts, and which ideas shall reach the public."
Commission On Freedom Of The Press

[Steven Vaccaro]

Question

Am I the only one here that feels a bit alienated by this and several other threads. I really like this site, but honestly I wish I never read this thread. I know it doesn't violate terms of the forums but it's definitely not healthy for it. Hell, I'm undecided in this election to be honest, but if you're gonna throw info up let it be facts and not propaganda. Since that's essentially what it is, have you guys actually looked at Obama's tax plan. It's not really that bad, I feel it's exaggerated.


you guys all make over $600k?

First let me say that policitcs is not a clean subject. There will always be poeple with differing oppinions. But we are all grownups. I for one have not read this thread for a while. I suggest you do the same. I have better things to do, than get caught up in a beef over the canidates.

[RCprince]

I for one don't understand why people get upset over politicians, It seems ludicrous to me, like sport teams :confused2: :sorry: , like they've siphoned our ability to do for self away from us...This morning I was listening to the News and Alaska senator who was indicted on charges of taking bribery and gifts from the oil companies was put back in office by 63 percent of the vote. I was told once "You wear what you buy". My thing is this, Educated yourself and your children the best way you know how and learn as much as you can, so somebody will need the knowledge you have in your head, because that's what it'll come down to.

[Ctonez]

First let me say that policitcs is not a clean subject. There will always be poeple with differing oppinions. But we are all grownups. I for one have not read this thread for a while. I suggest you do the same. I have better things to do, than get caught up in a beef over the canidates.

too true. good advice Steven.
I just popped-in yesterday after ignoring it for awhile. I think I'd rather not know what political group fellow boaters align with...doesn't affect my boat building or racing any.

[Steven Vaccaro]

I just popped-in yesterday after ignoring it for awhile. I think I'd rather not know what political group fellow boaters align with...doesn't affect my boat building or racing any.

:iagree:

I wont close it unless it gets bad. But I would ask if this one could just die on its own. It just doesn't go well with our "common" goal to enjoy our rc boating hobby.