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NativePaul
07-30-2013, 10:12 AM
The fast electric world championships are being held in Gent, Belgium starting on Thursday going on for 11 days and concluding next Sunday, I am currently getting prepared to leave for Belgium tonight, it is my first worlds and I am looking forward to it immensely, I doubt I will fare very well on my first go, but I am sure I will learn a lot and have a great time.

Will anyone else on OSE be going?

Good luck to all those attending (even if you're in the same classes as me).

Paul.

785boats
07-30-2013, 10:39 AM
The very best of luck to you Paul. I hope you surprise yourself & run up there with the best of them.
Cheers.
Paul.

BILL OXIDEAN
07-30-2013, 11:48 AM
Knock 'em dead and PLEASE doccument pics and video.
P.S. tell my Euro budddies I said Hi : )

Had I known about it I may have attended. I want to race abroad net season..

raptor347
07-30-2013, 12:14 PM
Have a great time. Any world championship level competition is a great experience. Lots of pics!

You'll come home with lots of new friends. I'm still in touch with people I met at the 1998 F5D worlds.

NativePaul
07-30-2013, 01:33 PM
Don't worry the camera is packed already, and I am taking a laptop for extra storage. Expect a huge update in a couple of weeks as I will probably have no internet till then.

twissted
07-30-2013, 02:21 PM
so what are you running? and what are your goals? Other than having a good time.

T.S.Davis
07-30-2013, 03:29 PM
That's pretty cool. I wonder how many countries are being represented.

tlandauer
07-30-2013, 04:40 PM
I know Tenshock is participating because I wanted to pick up their SCORDIII mono while I am in Asia and Jim Slaughter was kind enough to get in touch with them. Anyway, they have some new products that they are going to use in the race, so I am keeping my eyes on this event as well.
On a side note,
Best of luck to you---Native Paul :rockon2:

smileday
07-30-2013, 05:27 PM
I am very interested if anyone in the USA race under the Naviga rule, especially ECO and Mono. But I found nobody in the U.S. race these. Is there any possibility that I can race the worlds from the United States?

NativePaul
07-30-2013, 07:17 PM
NAMBA are Naviga affiliated I believe, even though they don't run any Naviga classes, so if you are a member of them you could come, I know Americans have come in the past.

I am racing Mini Hydro, Hydro1 and Hydro2. My goals are to have fun and to learn new things, though it would be nice if I didn't come last in all my heats. I have never competed against anyone from China or Russia so I have no idea what to expect there, and I hear they take it more seriously than we do in the UK, especially China.

Am I wrong in thinking that Eco is still on the books in Namba? It isnt raced as there are never enough boats in the same place but there has been some interest on OSE so if you all got together at your nats you would have enough and get a race.

T.S.Davis
07-30-2013, 09:50 PM
I've never seen an Eco heat. I think it's still on the books but I'm not sure how it got there in the first place. Few were running it when it was added. There weren't enough at the 05 nats and that was the biggest FE race in the states to date.

BILL OXIDEAN
07-31-2013, 10:39 AM
NAMBA are Naviga affiliated I believe, even though they don't run any Naviga classes, so if you are a member of them you could come, I know Americans have come in the past.

I am racing Mini Hydro, Hydro1 and Hydro2. My goals are to have fun and to learn new things, though it would be nice if I didn't come last in all my heats. I have never competed against anyone from China or Russia so I have no idea what to expect there, and I hear they take it more seriously than we do in the UK, especially China.

Am I wrong in thinking that Eco is still on the books in Namba? It isnt raced as there are never enough boats in the same place but there has been some interest on OSE so if you all got together at your nats you would have enough and get a race.

Not sure if Eco is still eligable in NAMBA as folks have made a few changes.
I'm all for having Eco. We need at least ONE international class. Otherwise it makes our sanction undesirable to folks from overseas.
As it stands an American would have to run something far out of their realm to compete abroad.

I remember when Eco was hot in NAMBA. I saw it run at the 2003 nats and the top drivers in the country all ran it including Doug Twaits
I myself currently hold the archived ECO record in NAMBA. I have a few eco boats waiting for its revival or to race abroad with. I was sponsored by ToySport for years.

T.S.Davis
07-31-2013, 12:03 PM
as folks have made a few senseless changes.


All rule changes are voted on Wilmer. Nobody "made" changes. You, me, and every NAMBA member votes on rule changes. Why do you type nonsense like this? It's one of the reasons I get so frustrated with ya.

Too few people liked it here. Hence, it died. Just like all the N1 classes will die.

BILL OXIDEAN
07-31-2013, 12:42 PM
All rule changes are voted on Wilmer. Nobody "made" changes. You, me, and every NAMBA member votes on rule changes. Why do you type nonsense like this? It's one of the reasons I get so frustrated with ya.

Too few people liked it here. Hence, it died. Just like all the N1 classes will die.

Everything I state is factual, I hope you have a better day Terry I won't take your stating I type nonsense as an insult, I realize, you just can't comprehend what I write.
How many people's idea was it to propose it? 50? it only takes a group of members to agree on something before a proposal is written.
Hey, if N-1 dies, oh well, but its highly doubtful. Still well contested.

I do great in any class I apply myself to, so getting rid of N-1 isn't getting rid of my wins besides, there's always IMPBA :smile:

I stand firm that an internationally compatible class would be great for NAMBA
I also stand firm that less classes offered means less fun, less diversity.
BUT, let's get back to the positive thread this is, I think it sounds like a WONDERFUL race, and I wish any and everyone attending the time of their life!

Sincerely,
Bill "No Nonsense" Oxidean :smile:

T.S.Davis
07-31-2013, 01:39 PM
Did you vote?

Wilmer, you are a fool. Nobody else has the balls to call you out when you insult the entire organization, the process through which rules are enacted, and/or everyone that represents that organization. You're not typing over my head or anyone elses. I stand firm......er, the rules are exactly as voted on by the members (that would be you Wilmer). They represent the desires of the majority of those racers. The organization didn't arbitrarily change the rules. You are the organization.

Nobody cares about your wins but you. What matters is what puts boats on the water.

This does sound like great event. 11 days of like minded amp heads in one place. Awesome.

BILL OXIDEAN
07-31-2013, 03:26 PM
Did you vote?

Wilmer, you are a fool. Nobody else has the balls to call you out when you insult the entire organization, the process through which rules are enacted, and/or everyone that represents that organization. You're not typing over my head or anyone elses. I stand firm......er, the rules are exactly as voted on by the members (that would be you Wilmer). They represent the desires of the majority of those racers. The organization didn't arbitrarily change the rules. You are the organization.

Nobody cares about your wins but you. What matters is what puts boats on the water.

This does sound like great event. 11 days of like minded amp heads in one place. Awesome.


Insult the organization? You're funny : )
I'm sure the organization is QUITE offended by the Thousands we donated THIS season to NAMBA lol!

Call me out on THAT! : )

I'm far too professional to respond in a negative manner. As I said Terry, I'm sorry you're not feeling so good inside today, I hope things get better,
so you can view me as the strong participant and contributor to this sport that its well known I am

Kris Flynn
07-31-2013, 05:31 PM
"This does sound like great event. 11 days of like minded amp heads in one place. Awesome"

Is this a good thing Terry? Really? Haha

I'm sure the Europeans would bitch and moan a lot less than they (mostly tanks and some Aussies) do on here.

I think a race like this would bring a few people back a peg or 2...or worse, imagine Wilmer did any good? Oh geeeze you guys would never hear the end of it :)

BILL OXIDEAN
07-31-2013, 11:10 PM
Sounds like a fun race!

T.S.Davis
08-02-2013, 09:30 PM
NAMBA takes donations? That's a news to me. Thousands? I'd like to know more about that. Never mind. I'll check on my own.

"as folks have made a few senseless changes"

You took some of your post out. How come?

"I realize, you just can't comprehend what I write"

Because I'm not very intelligent I guess. There's a high quality no nonsense positive professional quote. Was not negative in any way.

"How many people's idea was it to propose it? 50? it only takes a group of members to agree on something before a proposal is written."

To propose what exactly? Which "it"? Can't be ECO. That's still in there. So what "senseless" change was it that adversely effected participation? Also, if you don't know the rule change procedure you should probably educate yourself or refrain from comment. Either works for me. Although, a professional like yourself should know every nuance of the rule book.

Wilmer, you spew out negative zinger after negative zinger and if anyone calls you out, the problem is never what you write it's always someone else that is the problem. Either we can't understand or we're liars or something. I don't know. I'm "not feeling good inside"? Patronizing much? Really? But not negative. Oh no you're too professional.

Add em up and yepper I'll respond the way I have every time. Predictable as the sun I am.

You may have a point Kris. That many amp heads in one place. Risky. They're probably better behaved than we are over here. HA! That's why we're only just now hearing about it. We Americans might have shown up and screwed up the whole thing. I would like to make that trip someday though. I've only raced in two countries. Not very adventurous of me.

BILL OXIDEAN
08-02-2013, 10:18 PM
Is everything ok with you today Terry? Its friday, kick your feet up, snap open a Heineken, enjoy a television program with the wife, work on a boat for the upcoming nats. It should be great in 2014 you guys put on an impressive show.

Whitey
08-02-2013, 10:43 PM
All the best for the Fast Electric World Championships!!!


And, on the more recent posts, haven't I seen this before? It's like deja vu.

T.S.Davis
08-03-2013, 08:34 PM
I'm sure the organization is QUITE offended by the Thousands we donated THIS season to NAMBA lol!

Call me out on THAT! : )

.....and nope. Never happened.

NativePaul
08-12-2013, 11:25 PM
I just got back and haven't gone through the pictures yet so no photos or videos yet, but I will just say I had a great time and respond to a few comments until I have time to go through them.

It is not being kept a secret from you in the USA for any reason whether behaviour or competition as has been suggested I did mention it on here at the end of may, although just in discussion I didnt start a thread for it untill too late maybe, but I didn't know that you didn't know, Your national orginisation (NAMBA in USA, Naviga will only take one per country so IMPBA can't join Naviga while NAMBA are still members) should be consulting with Naviga and letting you know when and where the worlds are and hosting a qualifying race, which is normally your nationals the year before, the worlds are normally every other year so the next one should be 2015, I heard talk of it being in China or Poland but nothing has been decided yet so it could be anywhere.

There was plenty of consumption going on in the campsite and high spirits in a good way but it was calm at the race site more relaxed than a usual race as it is spread out a lot (unless you are lucky enough to get into a lot of finals somehow as all the finals were held on the same day). Everyone was friendly whether a decision went for or against them, and I'm sure you would have a lot of fun and fit in just fine. 17 countries attended and more would be welcome, I believe that America was the only populated continent that had no representation there which is kind of sad as it seems to be pretty popular in the north. Australasians too, don't just leave it to the islands to represent for Australia.

Erik Aa
08-13-2013, 07:13 AM
Hi Paul.
Glad to hear you had a good time.
I've been perusing the internet for results to no avail.
Could you let us in on who occupied the top spots? Especially in M2? Which hulls proved the most competitive this time?

Thanks,
Erik

NativePaul
08-13-2013, 05:15 PM
The results are up as a PDF on the Naviga site HERE (http://www.naviga.org/index.php/en/)
In Mono2 ETTI Exegas were the most common by a large margin. The finishing order for the senior final was (1, Bart, lightly modified H&M speedman) (2, Tom, heavily modified ETTI Exega) (3, Bernd, heavily modified H&M Speedman (I think)) (4, Rafal, very unusual boat design) (5, Joseph stock Toysport Triton) (6, Dave, heavily modified ETTI Exiga (same mods as Tom's)

BILL OXIDEAN
08-13-2013, 05:21 PM
The results are up as a PDF on the Naviga site HERE (http://www.naviga.org/index.php/en/)
In Mono2 ETTI Exegas were the most common by a large margin. The finishing order for the senior final was (1, Bart, lightly modified H&M speedman) (2, Tom, heavily modified ETTI Exega) (3, Bernd, heavily modified H&M Speedman (I think)) (4, Rafal, very unusual boat design) (5, Joseph stock Toysport Triton) (6, Dave, heavily modified ETTI Exiga (same mods as Tom's)

Joseph the owner of Toysport competed?

Erik Aa
08-13-2013, 05:39 PM
Thanks, Paul!
Looks like you performed rather well in H2.
Congratulations!

Did you get a look at the new etti sirius? Comments?

Best,
Erik

Erik Aa
08-13-2013, 05:42 PM
Also, the exiga mods. What were they in general?

Erik.

NativePaul
08-14-2013, 04:21 PM
Indeed Joseph Toth of Toysport was there as he usually is, he has a reputation for being a hard man to overtake with very good driving. Rough conditions in the first 2 rounds helped I'm sure but I was very surprised to see 2 non-stepped hulls in the final, I haven't seen one doing well in the UK for years, so there is some hope for USA monos. It was good to see the Belgiums doing well in Monos, they often come to the UK nationals as show us how it is done, so it is nice to know they really are that good and can show the rest of the world how it is done too, 3 of them in the M2 final ended up 1-2-6 but Dave who came 6th took the early lead and was pulling away but unluckily hit some weed and got stuck, it could easily have been Belgium 1-2-3.

Thanks I was very happy with my lightly modified JAE.21FE (no ski, and motor in front, battery in back for high polar moment of inertia) in Hydro2, I was maybe lucky with the conditions as it was quite rough on the first few days which suits me but after the second race I was in 4th hoping for a place in the final, but on the start of the calmer 3rd race I went nowhere, my speedo died in the minute or so between testing it for the judge and trying to start, as it was calmer the laptimes were lower and I slipped down from 4th to 8th.

I only heard 1 comment about the Sirrius and that was from an ETTI driver who said he had to bring it but would prefer to race his old boat if he was allowed to.

Tom's Exegas are chopped down the keel line and a strip down the middle of the deck is removed so it has more deadrise, making it turn better and behave better in the rough. The deck is flattened at the front and the hull is brought up to it so it has more lift up front and dives less. There are probably many less obvious changes too. Tom has molds for his version and there was some talk of it becoming available, not sure if it would be through ETTI or direct from Tom though.

ETTIs run very nicely indeed but they do tend to dive for the bottom from time to time, this one is an Envoy, but they share the trait with Exegas and Sabres.
103816

My buddy George's stock Exega, note the deck goes down to meet the hull as much as the hull comes up to meet the deck.
103817103818

Tom's Exega, note the hull comes right up to the top of deck level at the front, the narrower cockpit and more pronounced dip at the rear.
103819103820

BILL OXIDEAN
08-14-2013, 04:46 PM
Indeed Joseph Toth of Toysport was there as he usually is, he has a reputation for being a hard man to overtake with very good driving. Rough conditions in the first 2 rounds helped I'm sure but I was very surprised to see 2 non-stepped hulls in the final, I haven't seen one doing well in the UK for years, so there is some hope for USA monos. It was good to see the Belgiums doing well in Monos, they often come to the UK nationals as show us how it is done, so it is nice to know they really are that good and can show the rest of the world how it is done too, 3 of them in the M2 final ended up 1-2-6 but Dave who came 6th took the early lead and was pulling away but unluckily hit some weed and got stuck, it could easily have been Belgium 1-2-3.

Thanks I was very happy with my lightly modified JAE.21FE (no ski, and motor in front, battery in back for high polar moment of inertia) in Hydro2, I was maybe lucky with the conditions as it was quite rough on the first few days which suits me but after the second race I was in 4th hoping for a place in the final, but on the start of the calmer 3rd race I went nowhere, my speedo died in the minute or so between testing it for the judge and trying to start, as it was calmer the laptimes were lower and I slipped down from 4th to 8th.

I only heard 1 comment about the Sirrius and that was from an ETTI driver who said he had to bring it but would prefer to race his old boat if he was allowed to.

Tom's Exegas are chopped down the keel line and a strip down the middle of the deck is removed so it has more deadrise, making it turn better and behave better in the rough. The deck is flattened at the front and the hull is brought up to it so it has more lift up front and dives less. There are probably many less obvious changes too. Tom has molds for his version and there was some talk of it becoming available, not sure if it would be through ETTI or direct from Tom though.

ETTIs run very nicely indeed but they do tend to dive for the bottom from time to time, this one is an Envoy, but they share the trait with Exegas and Sabres.
103816

My buddy George's stock Exega, note the deck goes down to meet the hull as much as the hull comes up to meet the deck.
103817103818

Tom's Exega, note the hull comes right up to the top of deck level at the front, the narrower cockpit and more pronounced dip at the rear.
103819103820

Was my buddy Dee Chan Yu Wai there from Etti? What about David Niewland from Etti?
I can imagine Joseph being tough to beat.

Erik Aa
08-14-2013, 04:55 PM
Thanks, Paul.
Interesting mods. In your opinion, are these mods secondary to getting the wiredrive angle right? That is my hunch.
Best,
Erik

NativePaul
08-16-2013, 12:41 PM
Dee was there and came second in Mono1 with the new Sirrius, David Niewland was not there. Joseph was tough to beat in the heats, but in the calmer final his unstepped Triton was a bit sticky so he was slower than he was in the heats and his cells were dumping at the end, the Belgians had plenty of speed to blitz past him on the straights and not worry about trying to get inside him on a corner.

The stock ETTI Exiga is a great boat, very fast and good handling, the most common Mono2 at the worlds and most of them were stock, set it up right and you can have a boat that is competitive at the highest level. In flat water it is probably better than Tom's, however when the water is rough they can catch the nose on a wave and dive for the bottom so make sure you have a failsafe set and plenty of floatation inside.

Erik Aa
08-19-2013, 06:05 AM
Thanks, Paul. It is great that you provide us with these glimpses into the world championship.

Do you have any pictures of the new Sirius? The only picture I've found on the web is the one promo shot.

Best,
Erik.

Gromov
08-24-2013, 06:25 PM
Hi guys.

WC in Belgium....

Best race, best time.....

I got two World champion titles. In ECO MINI Expert and in FSR E. :)


http://youtu.be/XLH3yPZhYMU

My ЕСО expert took 12th place - the boat was *damp*, a new ... tuned only to the last race ...
It's a pity ..

The plan had three gold medals ...

But two - too great ...

More vids and pics - coming soon

NativePaul
08-25-2013, 01:05 AM
Very well done Evgeniy, 73 laps in FSR-E is awesome, 6 laps ahead of the next best scores, we don't run FSR-E in England so it was the first time I had seen it, I was expecting it to be a lot slower given the (15min?) runtime, but they are pretty damned quick, I may have pics and vids too still going through them and it is taking a while as I am back to work and I took a lot. Did you see the Mini Eco Junior Team final or were you too busy preparing for your own Finals? I am usually a surface drive guy but that was one of the best and most spectacular races I have ever seen in any class.
104297104298

Gromov
08-25-2013, 04:34 AM
Thank you for the congratulations, I'm a long time coming to this result ...
I totally agree with Bill Ox. should have 1-3 class racing with the same rules of racing to the racers could compare the results and to become in the end - true Champions of the World.
Now, in America - World Championship without Europe racers, in Europe -World Championship without American racers.

Need to do something

BILL OXIDEAN
08-26-2013, 05:55 PM
Thank you for the congratulations, I'm a long time coming to this result ...
I totally agree with Bill Ox. should have 1-3 class racing with the same rules of racing to the racers could compare the results and to become in the end - true Champions of the World.
Now, in America - World Championship without Europe racers, in Europe -World Championship without American racers.

Need to do something

Like button : )

ron1950
08-26-2013, 07:02 PM
so was that a 15 min race? I couldn't get the vid to work....if so. how do u get 15 min run on todays batteries?

NativePaul
08-27-2013, 04:15 AM
I agree too, it would be great to see participation from more countries even more so when they are well into FE racing like Austalia, Canada and the United States of America are, thankfully the gaps in the competition are closing up in America at least, when Randall Tripp et al came over to the worlds in 96(?) did you even have an offshore class in the states?

If you take a small Pltd offshore mono it might do OK in Mono2 with just a change to a legal Battery, I have switched to 3s 4500mAh but I heard that the 2s folk had 7600mAh to play with, you would need to find 2 minutes of runtime, but if you run on 2p for Pltd offshore (do you? I'm guessing you do) a Naviga legal 560 gram battery is probably under half the weight of your 5Ah highC packs (thunderpowers are under 560g, Hyperions are over 560, Gens Ace are over 560) and shaving 1-1.5lb of your boat will gain you some time as will the lower RPM the lower C packs will give you.

Or you could try running a Pltd rigger on a motor and prop that you would use for Pltd offshore, just the switch to a rigger may get you the extra minute you need without propping down, my JAE runs fine on small X series props even though lifters are recommended for some reason. I run a 3674 in my JAE but several people at the worlds remarked at how big it was and indeed my last motor was a 220gram Mega 22/30/2 and was well up to the task just too high KV for me, so the spec Motors should be enough and the advantagious spec motor may switch from the UL1 which is a lot lower than usual for us, to the 1500kv proboat motor, being closer to the mark for 6s 4500mAh, with props around 40mm.

I am interested in how they get the runtime in FSR-E too, I am not even 100% sure that it is 15 mins, it was a good bit longer than Eco standard that is 10 mins though, I think they are allowed an 840g (2lb) battery (840g could be 2s 20Ah or 9s 4500mAh) which is quite a lot for a boat that is not that big, if you compare it in his second picture to the one in his first which is a mini and will be just under 450mm(17.5") long. they look just a little bigger than eco experts, what does yours weigh all up? 1600g/3.5lb?

Gromov
08-27-2013, 04:45 AM
so was that a 15 min race? how do u get 15 min run on todays batteries?

22,2V 6300 mAh LiPo battery....

Race time 15 min, M cours 60x15 meters

Boat long 600 mm, weigt - 1400 grams

NativePaul
08-27-2013, 06:45 PM
I finally finished with the Photos from Friday's practice session, lots of interesting pits photos IN MY PICASSA ALBUM (https://picasaweb.google.com/117196443986894648300/NavigaWorldSGentBelgium2013?authuser=0&feat=directlinkhttp://) but I will update with other days photos which are mainly boats on water at a later date. There is lots more to go in there but so far there are:-
Pretty boats.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2rbV2tU5EMQ/UhyNT2i1plI/AAAAAAAACVo/tfUc_Sm6d7A/s800/283.JPG

Interesting boats.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-L2s0jaxrPhg/UhyNcL0JjEI/AAAAAAAACV4/MLmhg9cXl5Q/s800/285.JPG

Many self-righting riggers.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-kxLNdViKZHQ/UhyRRgkyicI/AAAAAAAACa0/YzS8NxQC2CU/s800/325.JPG

And a few boats on the water.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-s8lu__VMMnY/Uh0W8cjZt5I/AAAAAAAACfc/SYi8rJAR7EU/s800/339.JPG

BILL OXIDEAN
08-27-2013, 07:37 PM
More pics please! : )

Manny
08-27-2013, 07:58 PM
Who makes the blue and white rigger ?

NativePaul
08-27-2013, 10:32 PM
Did you check out the album Bill? There 120+ so far and more mainly action shots to come, but just for you I uploaded 2 more.
Ted gets in on the actionhttps://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-RpXzSz2NlBQ/Uh1bYMLAc0I/AAAAAAAACho/PFFiYnT0C_w/s800/004.JPG
Ted gets through scruitenering in the drivers seat, out onto the drivers stand is pictured here being held aloft by his pit man Don in front of the transponder tent, and even passes a self-righting test to make sure he wont drown, but race control would not let him drive in case he fell off as he was not wearing a lifejacket, luckily George McDonald was on hand and offered to take on the driving duties once Ted told him which way up to hold the transmitter.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-CjMN4wENP2k/Uh1bZOQwtyI/AAAAAAAAChs/LiYC70twJ2s/s800/078.JPG


I'm not sure who makes the blue and white one, I think it comes out of France but anything else went in one ear and out the other, it was information overload and my main interests were sponson sizes/shapesangles and methods of getting riggers selfrighting rather than who sells what.

ron1950
08-28-2013, 01:53 PM
just a thought but what language did you all use over there? anything other than English and id be lost for a week

NativePaul
08-28-2013, 07:45 PM
Me too, languages were not my strong point at school. Fortunately most of Europe speaks English as a second language so English seemed to be the de facto crossover language, and all calls for the next classes on the tannoys were in both German and English. The Chinese team tend not to speak English but they bring an interpreter with them, Mime and finger counting works quite well in those situations were you have no common language.

Gromov
08-29-2013, 06:26 PM
This not WC, but very impressive - this final race Russian Championship 2013. FSR E


http://youtu.be/YdqC9DA3Ayo

BILL OXIDEAN
08-29-2013, 06:33 PM
Intense racing! The whole retrieve boat in the water during the race is almost like a corner marshall in rc car racing..

Gromov
08-29-2013, 06:54 PM
Yes, the evacuation of the boats in this class - the rules allowed.

BILL OXIDEAN
08-29-2013, 06:56 PM
Yes, the evacuation of the boats in this class - the rules allowed.

Thats cool! Eliminates folks hitting dead boats..

NativePaul
09-03-2013, 03:34 PM
It's damned scary too, I was in the right side rescue boat for some of the team events, and I dont mind telling you that I was bricking myself when I had to drive out onto an active course to rescue, boats going left and right of you, some coming straight at you and veering off at the last millisecond, I was very grateful for my brown trousers and bicycle clips!

I made a mistake earlier in saying that Dave Van Steelant who was running away with Mono2 was driving a Tom Feyen Exiga, looking back at my photos and videos, it seems that he was actually driving a Tenshock Tomahawk.

Doby
09-03-2013, 03:41 PM
Rescue boats in the water during races are frowned upon by the IMPBA and NAMBA.....but hey, whatever works for you folks over there is great.

BILL OXIDEAN
09-03-2013, 04:09 PM
[QUOTE=NativePaul;524766]It's damned scary too, I was in the right side rescue boat for some of the team events, and I dont mind telling you that I was bricking myself when I had to drive out onto an active course to rescue, boats going left and right of you, some coming straight at you and veering off at the last millisecond, I was very grateful for my brown trousers and bicycle clips!

LoL!! I like this, it made me laugh out loud thanks for sharing, I was wondering what that would be like lol! Hey, makes for more exciting racing.

NativePaul
09-04-2013, 01:44 PM
Rescue boats in the water during races are frowned upon by the IMPBA and NAMBA.....but hey, whatever works for you folks over there is great.

I'm with you for the most part Doby, Naviga only allow it for the very long races of 15 & 18 minutes in duration, the rescue boat is not active during any of the hydro classes or Mono2, Mono1 team is the only surface drive class that it is active for and I think Mono1 is slower than any of the classes you regularly run in the states, but it is still pretty quick and they can get airborne so I don't like the rescue boat being active in that class myself, and don't see it remaining active for long, I personally won't do it for Mono1 team. The submerged drive classes are pretty quick but they don't tend to get airborne and when they do they don't go high, so while it is pretty scary being in the rescue boat while they are running, the worse that is likely to happen is a model boat hitting the rescue boat so there really isn't a safety issue.

NativePaul
09-04-2013, 02:05 PM
No more Photos yet, but I spent the last couple of days uploading videos to youtube. No FSRE or team events as I didn't think I had the memory for the long races, which turned out to be correct, Hydro1 cuts out half way through and I was still uploading to my laptop when Hydro2 started so I missed the start and used my phone to record it rather than my camera.
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T.S.Davis
09-04-2013, 02:10 PM
Honestly, I can't imagine being out there with all those little razor sharp objects whipping about. Yikes.

What if the rescue boat takes you out? You're in a good groove and then wham! there's the rescue boat! Now you're fishing for parts.

Doug Smock
09-04-2013, 05:06 PM
You can retrieve boats during the race but the boats must have safety loops. That's interesting. Is the retrieve boat allowed out with the petrol boats as well?
Hey congrats fellas and thanks for sharing!! Neat boats!!

NativePaul
09-05-2013, 04:00 AM
The rescue boat does not just go out on its own accord, race control tell it when to go out and they also tell the racers that it is going out so they have fair warning. The rescue boat can not take you out, it has right of way so if you hit it it is your fault and you get disqualified. I think the boat classes that the rescue boat is active for are all small, light and slow enough that they will bounce of the rescue boat with minimal damage to themselves and no damage to the rescue boat, but if someone was to build a boat out of used chip packets and the worst happened then at least the rescue boat would be conveniently at hand so the fishing wouldn't take long.

I am an all electric modeller and always have been, I have only been to one race that had petrol boats running in it and the rescue boat was not allowed out with them, and I doubt that it would be for any, with the higher speed and much heavier and stronger boats I would have thought damage to the rescue boat would be a possibility should contact occur. There are OMRA offshore races for glow and Petrol boats though and they are a mixture of circuit racing in lakes and proper offshore racing in the sea with the drivers in chase boats following their models, though I have never been to one and don't know if there are lots of boats out at once or if it is a time trial one at a time.

Active rescue boats are not allowed out for any of the local electric races in the UK, that normally only rescues at the end of the race but if a boat looks like it is sinking the clock and race will be stopped, then when all the boats are stationary the rescue boat will go out, and when it comes back in and its wash dies down the race gets restarted. Only 2 heats once a year at the nationals have an active rescue boat.

The fastest class that has an active rescue boat is team mono1 which are 600-650mm (24-26") boats weighing about 1kg, 2.2lb with a 280g (10oz) battery, (approx 1/2 a 1p Pltd offshore battery weight) and has to run for an extra 2 minutes for a total of 6 minutes, so I should imagine that it is much slower and it will definitely have a lot less energy in a collision. All the fastest classes have static rescue boats as above, but at the worlds I don't think they were stopping races for sinking boats, there was plenty of divers on hand so they would continue the race and get the sunken boat recovered at lunch time or at the end of the day.

marker
09-05-2013, 04:24 AM
Hi Paul
Do you have any videos of the F1E classes, looking at the results the records for the + & - kg classes are now sub 10 seconds and about 2 secs faster than the IC classes.
Mark

BILL OXIDEAN
09-05-2013, 06:16 AM
I like this thread and its focus lets get off the safety subject of a system that has been working overseas for years. I personally think its cool each racer has to marshall including a mental and physical challenge. Gets the blood racin' : ) Nothing we say here is gonna change a thing over there and we're FAR from ever attempting it here. My home lake here in San Francisco is arguably the hottest model boat establishment in the country built in tye late 1800's specifically for model boats we have an on site model maritime museum with teather hydros dating back to the 40's.

Weve had SERIOUS accidents. Elderly women having their fibia shattered by ba gas cat runaway etc. I personally think an eco would deflect off the side of a retreive boat. That bein said I think theyre fine. Lets not discourage these folks from sharing due to persecution. Rock on world championships thanks for sharing

A sub-surface ECO has a tendency to "dive" or "stuff" upon impact from my experiences as you see in the vid they're not flying in the air upon impact.
My theory is a neg angle drive.

They don't do it in all classes.
I'm not gonna' sugar coat, the Europeans SCHOOL us when they come out here. Yes, they learn a trick or two from us, but they've got good game. Their stuff is well though out..

NativePaul
09-05-2013, 06:31 AM
No, unfortunately not Mark, one of my prime objectives was to get some video of the F3E steering, but the course that the held the speed and steering events on was on a tree lined bank with a scaffold jetti for the competitors and officials to stand, and no room for extra bodies filming, i did do some rescue and judging for F3e and you get a great view from the rescue boat parked on the island but no opportunity for filming, the new records are super impressive though, as you say <10 seconds for the speed classes, but even more impressive for me was <15 seconds for F3e steering round the christmas tree, it would have been incredible if I had not seen it with my own eyes, I think if I practised 8 hours a day for the next year I might get a clear round, but it would take me a minute.
This is not my video, was not shot at this world champs, and the new record is nearly a second faster, but this shows the extreme difficulty of the course to those that don't know F3e, you must go clean through the gates, a touch gives you a 5 second time penalty which puts you way out of contention.
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T.S.Davis
09-05-2013, 07:42 AM
Those guys are not human. Can't be. haha I couldn't hit those openings if my life depended on it.

I think Doug was just pointing out that the loops are required for "safety" but racing boats with people on the pond is okay. It's a weird is all. Maybe we should have a run with the retrieve boat class here to make it easier for international mingling. I'm kidding BTW. One whoops here and it would be off to the lawyers. Not a criticism of NAVIGA. More of a US problem.

NativePaul
09-05-2013, 11:14 AM
I see safety loops as a convenience thing more than anything else, in the UK we have to do duties like race control, caller/timekeeper, lap counter or buoy judge when we are not racing, with at least 1 duty per class you race, so if you race 3 classes like a lot of people do and do 3 duties there are probably only 2 classes you are not involved with, if you couldn't tape up well in advance and plug in when it is time to race no one would be ready for their heat and races would run so late we would need lights on our boats. There are other issues too once you have more than 2 models in a rescue boat it gets hard to find places to put them down where the prop cant touch the rescue boat, each other or you should they come to life. And very infreqently but once in a while we do see boats upside down going balls out, or stopped boats with smoke coming out from burned ESCs and it is nice to be able to disconnect them rather than just watch the show and wait for further damage to stop the action.

Unfortunately we are fast catching up with you in our litigiousness and daytime TV is full of adverts for no win no fee ambulance chasing lawyers that deserve to be run over by the ambulance they are chasing. This and the increasing speed of mono1s is why I don't think we will have active rescue boats in Team Mono1 for much longer. While it is pretty scary, it is an irrational fear and I don't believe there is any safety issue with running any of the Eco Team or FSRE classes with an active rescue boat, if I did I wouldn't do it. I spent a full ECO day taking photos and following the least stable boats trying to get exciting photos of boats in the air on a day that was pretty rough and there was probably 4 hours of constant racing during that day and the best air I saw was this Mini Eco during practice on Friday which got 3-4 inches of air, when a rescue boat has 2 feet of freeboard I see it as safe for the submerged drive classes.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-cCRggVgxLwo/Uh0XUXhejEI/AAAAAAAACg8/ilQP8TTGSU8/s800/369.JPG

martin
09-06-2013, 02:55 PM
Paul whats your opinion on the Tenshock Scord 111 that I believe their were a few racing, assuming you did see some of these of course. I know the Scord 4 is coming but no one seems to know quite when. Regards Martin.

Gromov
09-07-2013, 06:08 AM
Hi guys
This 15 minutes race FSR E. Final WC in Belgium..


http://youtu.be/N-kn4DO25j8

I winn....

And this F1E. Not 9,6 sec, but fast...


http://youtu.be/RVSFX1esaDY

And fotoset (https://plus.google.com/photos/100345082534094434899/albums/5917687777406112801?authkey=CNuFlviXs939xAE) from WC in Belgium....

martin
09-07-2013, 06:52 AM
Evgeniy your thoughts on the Tenshock Scord 111, are they any good. This wont be used for competition racing but fast Mono 1 fun. Regards Martin.

NativePaul
09-07-2013, 01:46 PM
I was very impressed with the Scord 3s, very fast as it is small and light, I heard it is based on an ETTI Sabre but modified not to dive, and the mods definitely seem to have worked, Chan Kwai Cheung's one was decimating the competition in its (very rough) heat on the first day.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5v47gufJk0U/UitdNiXt61I/AAAAAAAACkE/JK2uzqgPhAk/s800/006.JPG
and while the highest lap score was 29 only 1 person got that in one heat, 28 was the next best score and Bart Van Geyt's was the only boat to get 28 laps in all 3 heats which shows how little it was effected by the conditions.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-gNJhCgOHzP4/Uh0WLWRexJI/AAAAAAAACdM/dURjQxqyM7A/s800/119.JPG
If you look at my Mono1 final video on page 2 it is Bart's Scord3 that I am following most of the time, he takes the lead about 2m30s into the video. unfortunately I think he must have stopped for some reason shortly after the video ends as he only got 24 laps in the final.

Erik Aa
02-21-2014, 01:57 PM
Hi Paul.
Which hulls were competitive in H2? I'm thinking about testing something in this class.

Best,
Erik

NativePaul
02-21-2014, 02:59 PM
Mainly the competitive H2s were home made or small volume local manufacturers, I think the only easily obtainable glass Hydro2s that were competitive stock were H&M Mr Krabs/Dr Super Evils and Lindeau Bathlets, my JAE.21 is heavily modified and with better luck I could have made the finals so was competitive in the conditions but had it been flat water it would not have been near competitive and even in the conditions there were a few modified super evils and home brews that I couldn't hope to get close to.

Erik Aa
02-21-2014, 03:32 PM
Interesting. I was actually considering a JAE21 FE, but it sounds like a glass hull is perhaps the better way to go?

twissted
02-21-2014, 04:37 PM
hor racing has some fast ones

NativePaul
02-21-2014, 07:35 PM
Good glass hydros are a lot lighter than the stock JAE, but I know 2 racers in the UK that have built JAEs much lighter than stock, one to the stock JAE design but thinner ply and one with their own shape and thickness tub but to JAE dimensions, and both are a good advantage, if I was to build another wood one it would have thinner ply and be lighter, I won't though as I am working on plugs for a new series of hydros based on a JAE sponson now, and that may or may not be available at a small volume under the Greased Weasel Racing name at a later date depending if I am happy with them. I hope that they will be faster than the JAE, but they will still be predominately rough water boats and while they will close the gap, there will still be faster boats on flat water. One of the fastest flat water boats I have seen is the Mongoose (no relation) series which have been a homebrew low volume group of riggers that look a bit Dr Evil at first glance but I know a lot of R&D and improvements have gone on from there, Heath's RC Models have just bought the rights to them and are having them made by Raush in Germany, I have not seen a production version yet but I have been impressed with the design and finish of the originals, and the layup of the Rausch Essenze Monos so I expect they will be good, I was actually offered a sponsored drive a little to late, had it been last year I would have snapped his hand off to get it as I nearly bought one of each, but I was too heavily invested both time and money in my own boats to take it, still I may end up buying them, as I believe dedicated rough water and flat water boats have a big advantage over 1 boat that is a compromise.

Having said that I saw a couple of French low volume H1 hulls that look like a good compromise between rough and smooth water (and VERY fast starts too), one was the blue and white Belgian boat in post 41, I didn't take contact details to get one as may be gathered by my preferances above but I know the designer speaks English so if you searched for a French FE forum and posted that pic there he would come forward or someone would pass you on to him.

twissted do you have a link? I haven't seen any.

Erik Aa
02-22-2014, 09:56 AM
Very interesting. Please let us know how your hulls perform eventually. Sounds like a glass hull is the way to go. Do you run offset wire/flex drives in H2? If so, about 6 mm?

Best,
Erik

NativePaul
02-22-2014, 12:15 PM
Glass could well be the way to go it is light and they have much better aero, but wood has its advantages, it is cheap and easy to modify/repair, while a stock thickness JAE is too heavy to be really competitive at the highest level it is fine for club racing, and the weight brings strength with it. While I think it is far too heavy now when I first switched to riggers I was very glad that it was built far too strong, as it is faster and drives very differently to the cats I was used to and I hit a lot of bouys in the first couple of years, we had another racer in the club that went to a rigger first at the same time with a Lindeneau Bathlet and he also hit several buoys in his first couple of years, every time he hit a buoy he broke the boat, split sponson, torn tub, ripped out boom mounts, etc, but every time I hit a buoy I snapped the booms and replaced them with no damage to the boat and often in time for the next heat. I switched to solid 8mm booms and then only broke booms every other time I hit a buoy, the added stresses passed on meant that I did rip out my boom mountings once splitting a sponson but the nature of the wood over foam construction meant it was a 5 minute repair in the field and ready for the next heat rather than the race day being over and a long repair at home.

I run a 1.6mm wire in my H2 (I have used 1.6mm for 2 years but have broken 1 and it ruined my race day, so 2mm may be more appropriate) with 2-3mm offset as there is not that much prop walk from the 34mm props I am running these days. The new boats will be fully offset with the drive on the right side of the tub, and the tub will be offset to the left bringing it back closer to the centreline, it is an unusual setup that I have not used or even seen before, so I would guess a little less than now, but I have no real idea how much offset it will need.

Erik Aa
02-22-2014, 05:00 PM
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. Now I am actually leaning towards the JAE21. I think I need to crawl before I can run. Would you run a stock JAE with an offset wiredrive or not?

NativePaul
02-22-2014, 05:53 PM
It works well when setup as per the manual using zippkits recommended hardware with a flex. It needs a complete layout switch to run a wire in it, and there is not a big gain going to wire, it handles rough water better, but even stock it is one of the best rough water riggers.

twissted
02-22-2014, 11:40 PM
http://www.horracing.com/index.php?cPath=37&osCsid=890501b74ne8f7arj5mlf2bt74

http://www.finedesignrc.com/hullshydromarine.asp

Erik Aa
02-23-2014, 03:41 AM
Do you run the JAE on 6s or 4s? Kv?

Thanks again,
Erik

NativePaul
02-23-2014, 06:26 PM
twissted, I am familiar with the rigger in the HOR thumbnail but it does not make a competitive Hydro2 and I would be surprised if it made a competitive anything without some serious modifications, the sponson angles are rather unorthodox. The Hydro and marine Mr Krabs from fine design was a very good boat and can still be competitive, but if it tickles your fancy I would go to H&M direct and buy a Dr Super Evil which is the latest version and a a better hull in most circumstances.

Erik, I run 6s, Leopard 3674 1700kv, but I don't think there are any props commercially available that will get the 5 minutes run time at the speed I am getting with that setup (I run an X438@34mm), you would probably be better off dropping KV so you don't have to cut down props, the JAE does work well with big low revving props and I have seen them go very well on 4s 1780kv, 1900kv, 2000kv, 2300kv, 5s 1700kv, 6s 1500kv and my 6s 1700kv, I also tried 6s 1780kv and it was ballistic, but couldn't get the run time with any prop that would push it at a decent speed. I will probably be dropping KV myself at the end of the year as Naviga are increasing the runtime on Hydro 1 and 2 to 6 minutes, possibly down to a 3665 1420kv, but I might be lucky and get an extra minute from dropping half a kilo of weight. certainly the light glass boats with aero are much easier to push than my JAE, I'm often astounded by my buddy's Mongoose that runs Higher KV than me, but with a much bigger prop and had no trouble getting runtime.

Erik Aa
02-27-2014, 11:29 AM
Thank you, Paul.
My knowledge of hydros is slowly accumulating. By the way, does *anyone* race glass hydros like these: http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=df-vortex-24 in H2, or is this a riggers only game?


Best,
Erik.

NativePaul
02-27-2014, 03:26 PM
I have never seen that one race, but I do see full bodied hydros from time to time, they don't tend to do very well, but look like a lot of fun though. I have run cats in the hydro classes for most of my racing life, I didn't often win but the competition is not only at the front, I have more fun fighting hard for a close last place than walking a win, having said that a good fight is the luck of the draw wherever you are in the field and a good fight for the win feels a lot better afterwards than a good fight to avoid last.

Speed is fun for me too, and riggers are the fastest.

NativePaul
08-19-2014, 08:27 AM
Tom's Exegas are chopped down the keel line and a strip down the middle of the deck is removed so it has more deadrise, making it turn better and behave better in the rough. The deck is flattened at the front and the hull is brought up to it so it has more lift up front and dives less. There are probably many less obvious changes too. Tom has molds for his version and there was some talk of it becoming available, not sure if it would be through ETTI or direct from Tom though.

The Exega with tom's mods is now available from ETTI, they are calling it the Vertigo.

Erik Aa
08-19-2014, 09:01 AM
Yes, been looking at this one. The Exiga sure dives.
My Exiga dove 90 degrees (vertically) on full throttle powered by 6S 1700kv. Never saw it coming.
It went straight down to the bottom of the lake at around 10 meters depth in less than a second I think (the Etti throttle cut-off has a little delay) and disappeared in the mud for good.
Scuba divers saw no trace of it.

Never seen it since.

Best,
Erik