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Ozzypatrol
07-30-2013, 10:03 AM
HI Folks,

Looking at playing with an old hull I have, want to build it up to be a quick bunky.

At the moment the boat is a stock V2 with 5.5mm bullets all round, X642 (S&B) and a 50C constant discharge 4s set up. Motor is still the original 1500kV. First up I plan on moving to 5 or 6S depending on how I can get the weight distribution and build up my skill with setup and driving. So first upgrade will be the ESC.


A couple of questions about ESC's:

-Food for thought - The blackjack can run 6s with its 1800kV motor and 60A ESC. Is this a cost saving thing? Why?
-Can you get an ESC that is too big for your set up? ie. 300A esc on 6s for 1500kV (other then cost)
-I have no idea on the motor I will run down the track, from what I hear the higher the cell count the lower the kV to give more torque?
-Torn between the Swordfish 200A, 240A and the seaking 180A v3. I did notice neither swordfish had no external caps, is this an issue?
-My stock set up uses the lipo's to power the receiver, other then having to have an external pack with a new ESC, are there any advantages/disadvantages to having a seperate receiver pack?

From what I have read on the net the biggest issue with both ESC's is the LVC being way off. Now I would prefer to have an all integral LVC that will just slow the boat like it does with the PB ESC so I know it is time to come in (rather then an external LV beeper). The MG stays very dry even with a flip so it is more about reducing clutter in the hull.


Cheers,

BJ

Ozzypatrol
07-31-2013, 07:25 AM
Bump


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lenny
07-31-2013, 07:51 AM
Do you want a good 6s setup ?
My buddy made his into nice sport runner and is using the Seaking 130a HV esc and love's it,
Also he is using a very good but cheap motor form HK and said it is a great motor.
There is some video's of it running on hear,
If you need some links let me know.

Ozzypatrol
07-31-2013, 08:20 AM
Yeh want something that will be reliable and fairly quick. Links to vids would be great. Why 130a and not 180?


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BHChieftain
07-31-2013, 09:01 AM
A couple of questions about ESC's:

-Food for thought - The blackjack can run 6s with its 1800kV motor and 60A ESC. Is this a cost saving thing? Why?
-Can you get an ESC that is too big for your set up? ie. 300A esc on 6s for 1500kV (other then cost)
-I have no idea on the motor I will run down the track, from what I hear the higher the cell count the lower the kV to give more torque?
-Torn between the Swordfish 200A, 240A and the seaking 180A v3. I did notice neither swordfish had no external caps, is this an issue?
-My stock set up uses the lipo's to power the receiver, other then having to have an external pack with a new ESC, are there any advantages/disadvantages to having a seperate receiver pack?

From what I have read on the net the biggest issue with both ESC's is the LVC being way off. Now I would prefer to have an all integral LVC that will just slow the boat like it does with the PB ESC so I know it is time to come in (rather then an external LV beeper). The MG stays very dry even with a flip so it is more about reducing clutter in the hull.


Cheers,

BJ


Hi BJ,
Despite what the manual says, you are asking for trouble running the blackjack on 6S. The motor is 1800kv, the stock ESC is 80A. There are many posts of people burning up the ESC on 6S. If you run a small enough prop it will work, but that defeats the purpose. If you start to use the bigger props, then you start to pull a lot of amps-- and what kills the ESC is usually a spike created when the boat hops out of the water, unloads the prop, then re-enters the water.

You can't go "too big" on the ESC ampwise, but you can waste money if you go too big, and the lower cost chinese ESCs have been known to die for no good reason, so don't over invest there. I think the seaking 180A ESC is a great unit for the proboat impluse, geico, and blackjack on 6S.

Note that the after market ESCs are not NEARLY as water resistant as the stock ESC (even the seaking 180A which claims to be water resistant is not that water resistant). So you usually need to treat them to improve them surviving getting wet.

Most ESCs have programmable LVCs, so that should not be a problem. On the BEC-- most are limited to 4S, so if you want to run 5 or 6 you disconnect the middle red wire on the ESC to RX connector, and replace it with a dedicated RX battery pack or external BEC.

Also, 1800KV on 6S is almost 40K rpm which is too high for a long term reliable setup. 1800KV on 5S = 1500kv on 6 s = 33.3RPM which is a good target. Too many RPMs make any vibration problem really bad, results in premature wear on motor bearings and strut. You can do it, but be prepared to replace components as they wear out. Only recommended for SAW setups, not sport running.

Chief

Ozzypatrol
07-31-2013, 09:18 AM
Awesome info mate, hit the nail on the head with what I needed to know. Thanks heaps. Last thing any brand of esc to avoid? Feel free to pm if ya don't want to post


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angrycat
07-31-2013, 06:12 PM
i am running the bj29 with a seaking 130a hv and am very pleased with the throttle smoothness, the adjustability on it is not bad, just wish it had an option for data logging and adding cap banks. i am also running a turnigy sk3 edf motor from hk, the stock 1800kv 6 pole motor is extremely inefficient at high rpm so it heats up quick and stays hot. motor went after a while so i went for the turnigy 1900kv for 45 bucks and it runs much cooler on 6s. im also running a s&b octura m440 because of the high kv. i might swap it out for the same motor just a 1600kv i have as a spare and see how that runs with a x442. if i were you i would take everyone's advice and go with a lower kv motor and prop for it. much more reliable and half the tuning hassle

angrycat
07-31-2013, 06:16 PM
http://youtu.be/aPBydb4EiQA

still have some tuning to do but this was with the shaft binding in the strut bushing and no ride tuning after replacing the motor and esc

Ozzypatrol
08-01-2013, 12:24 AM
Too easy, will be getting the SK 180 V3. And as close to a 1600kV motor I can find. Willing to spend $80-100 on a motor. How do you determine can size required, just get something similar to the factory 1500kV? If someone wants to link one from the OSE shop that'd be great. Hoping to order asap so it can get shipped to Australia as we are taking the boats away in 2 weeks.

BHChieftain
08-01-2013, 01:27 AM
Hi,
Sorry, had a typo in my email-- I meant 1500kv motor not 1600kv (1500kv on 6s= 33.3RPM). But 1600kv is also ok. I edited my earlier reply to correct that.

I would recommend the proboat 1500kv motor used in the miss geico:

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=dh-prb3310

But it looks like OSE is out of stock. You should be able to find the motor at Horizon Hobby-- but under the Dynamite brand.

Chief

Ozzypatrol
08-01-2013, 08:52 AM
well I have ordered a seaking V3 180 esc, will run the stock pb 1500kV. Just need to get my hands on a couple of S/B x440 and x442 props. Thanks for the input

Ozzypatrol
08-08-2013, 08:16 AM
Ok got my seaking 180 v3. Can I run my x642 prop with the stock 1500kV motor (with bullets) on 5 and 6 s?


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Ozzypatrol
08-10-2013, 09:58 AM
Bump, can I run my s&b x642 on 6s with the 180A esc and 1590kv stock motor?. All connections are bullets


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hydro_pyro
08-10-2013, 10:56 AM
1800KV on 6S is almost 40K rpm which is too high for a long term reliable setup. 1800KV on 5S = 1500kv on 6 s = 33.3RPM which is a good target. Too many RPMs make any vibration problem really bad, results in premature wear on motor bearings and strut. You can do it, but be prepared to replace components as they wear out. Only recommended for SAW setups, not sport running.

Chief

The KV rating is a NO-LOAD rating. On 6s, my BJ29 runs around 32000 rpm in the real world.

Ozzypatrol
08-11-2013, 08:58 AM
So is tht a yes? I will be buying new props just waiting for supplier to get them in stock


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lenny
08-11-2013, 09:45 AM
I would try that setup on 5s first and see what temps are,
And if all looks good,
Than try the 6s for 1 minute and check all temps.
Than if the setup is happy and warm try running for 2 minutes and so on.



Bump, can I run my s&b x642 on 6s with the 180A esc and 1590kv stock motor?. All connections are bullets


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Ozzypatrol
08-14-2013, 06:26 AM
Ok, just about to put the ESC in the boat. What timing should I run it on for 4S, 5S and 6S on an X642 and proboat 1500kv V2 motor?

Cheers,

BJ

iop65
08-14-2013, 08:12 AM
11.25

lenny
08-14-2013, 08:13 AM
Try it on 3.75 and check temps at 2 minutes, And the highest would be 7.50.
That is a stock PB 6 pole motor right ?

Ozzypatrol
08-14-2013, 08:20 AM
Too easy, will need to run x642 for a bit, it's hard to get props in Australia

Ozzypatrol
08-14-2013, 08:21 AM
Yeh mate, the v2 mg proboat 1500kv 6 pole.

Ozzypatrol
08-19-2013, 04:57 AM
Boat ran well, got about 15 runs in on the weekend. Tried 5s with the X642. Didn't get a speed ut will post vids on youtube. Initially ran on 3.75 timing then pushed it up to 7.5. Temps all looked pretty good with the batteries coming in at the highest - 45degC. Also tried 6s with 3.75 had to pull the boat in after 1 lap as the strut set up just caused the boat to fishtail wildly without and extra speed.

iop65
08-19-2013, 05:42 AM
like i said ;11.25 for that motor
3.75 that's for D-wind
this is a Y-wind!

Ozzypatrol
08-19-2013, 05:54 AM
ah ok, will try again, was er'ing on the side of caution. Cheers mate

Ozzypatrol
08-19-2013, 05:55 AM
is there a limit to how much timing you can add? Or do I just go off temperature?

Ozzypatrol
08-19-2013, 06:27 AM
Sorry about the poor quality,
http://youtu.be/QJHaJDwqC7Y
http://youtu.be/xAsGpq6dEW8
http://youtu.be/om42CM-sn8g

iop65
08-19-2013, 08:41 AM
is there a limit to how much timing you can add? Or do I just go off temperature?
max 15 here ,but check the temp with 11.25 first!