2014 Nationals thoughts.

[T.S.Davis]

Gonna share some from time to time to see what you guys think. Fred and I are already brains deep in the planning for this.

We typically finish up the nats on Saturdays. You race all day, then you jam all you crap into it's respective box, pack up, load it into your mode of transportation. The you wait wait wait for scores. Then off to the banquet if there is one. So it's approaching maybe 7:00 ish or so by the time we're done messing around. Saturday at the Elks will be a zoo if you think about it. Trying to pack and tear down. Ugh.

What if......we raced Saturday, had a massive celebration with, food(not the same guy), drinks, fireworks, and the whole 9 yards? Then on Sunday morning had a breakfast buffet, awards ceremony, and then hit the road?

Wanted to see what you guys thought.

[madmikepags]

I like it!!!!!

[madmikepags]

well the other though is make the sat a short day 3-4 classes? done by 2;30-3 then have plenty of time to pack and PARTY!!!!!!

[madmikepags]

hey if you are doin the Nats on the same week next year when are you doing the Mi Cup race?????????????? LOL!!!!!!!

[D. Newland]

I will have had enough of you clowns by Saturday evening that Sunday early AM, I'm hitting the road back to Phoenix. You can ship my awards.

In all seriousness, I obviously don't know that site, but we're all sort of trained to get ourselves organized/packed up throughout the last day of racing. It stays light there until... what 9:30? Blow it out Saturday right into the evening, get it all done, then let us get home on Sunday. Think of George Costanza leaving the party on the highest of notes.

[madmikepags]

Dave there were over 350 spectators on sat, I think what terry means is that us doing awards there on sat night will be a Cluster f--k. people started showing up for fireworks around 3;30-4 oclock!!!

[T.S.Davis]

Dave, the problem becomes that the whole lodge is full of wandering humans Saturday starting mid afternoon. That's where we failed on the crowd control thing. Still brain storming there. Actually thinking about hiring people for that. Then the band was setting up around 6:00 right where we normally are announcing those awards. Might still be doable though. I'm just not sure how easy it will be to button down a race like this with 250 people on site and nearly as many vehicles in the lot.

Trying to think of a compromise that could work. We could slam it out and get it done Saturday but I don't think any of us know what will happen with what this is turning into. This could be fatter than the 05 nats. Throw in the spectacle that is..............yick.

At least we're trying to figure it out now. We're also not so arrogant as to think we should just dictate how it will be done. All opinions welcome on this.

[T.S.Davis]

I will have had enough of you clowns by Saturday evening that Sunday early AM, I'm hitting the road back to Phoenix.

No way man. When we get done with ya, you'll be looking for a house to move your family here. I think Regg might make Mikey move to MI. Think she already found a house.

[madmikepags]

wouldn't that be GRAND!!!!!

[Grimracer]

Terry,

I am going to try to shame Russ into making AquaCraft the title sponser... let me work on that...

Email me the sponser info as soon as you have it!

Grimracer

[Doby]

Terry:

People need to be diverted to the spectator areas at the Orange fence....inside the orange fence needs to be ID'd as a "racers"(insured) area only.

As long as the center part of the orange fence is left open, people will continue to flow into the pit area, and then naturally to the launching area which becomes a bigger danger (everyone wants to be where the action is, staring at shiny objects).

The pit area should be off limits during heat times as well, while most were respectful my "canopy pit area", I did find some snooping around when I was pitting/driving. While I don't think there were any evil intentions, there is still the chance of injury with lots of sharp things and high voltages laying around....people could come in during lunch breaks to talk to the participants and then politely asked to go to the spectators area when racing resumes.

Even drivers families who are not insured should not be allowed unlimited access as others might think they can wander around if they see families in the pit areas.

It might be time to review the NAMBA/ Elks insurance policy and rules to see what they say. Maybe they are OK with open access, but I kinda doubt it.

At some gas/nitro events I've been at you have a starting area where only drivers and pit crews are allowed due to the fact you have spinning props etc before the boats hit the water..well, the electric boats plugged in and taped up should be considered as "live", and as we walk down the pit area to the launching area, one accidental pull on the radio trigger and the props spinning with people around.

Just want to make sure nothing happens that may cause a great venue to be lost (you guys and the Elks)

But what the hell do I know (stupid Kanadian)

[D. Newland]

Dave there were over 350 spectators on sat,

Then I want to tag-team the MC'ing of the Banquet with Davis. If we have video, we could farm it out to a reality show producer. Anyone have Seacrest's #?

[madmikepags]

definitely have to get some sort of TV coverage for this thing whether it be local cable or one of the BIG 4!!!!

[fas]

hey if you are doin the Nats on the same week next year when are you doing the Mi Cup race?????????????? LOL!!!!!!!

Now that's funny Mikey I am still dragging today that's ok it was will worth it wow what a weekend it was

[T.S.Davis]

John, safety and the lack there of this year is going to be a primary objective for me. Even if it means I have to have someone on staff to deal with it full time. We might end up feeling like zoo animals but if someone gets hurt it's not going to matter how we felt about it. Not sure I care how the rules read on it either. If someone got hurt and we were following the rules it's still going to be awful and likely litigious. Some common sense and some effort should be all that it takes. Finding a fine line between allowing access but limiting it is what's needed. I've already started drawing up a pit area with better spectator options than before. If it works the way I want it spectators will be able to see from the deck too. I may contact you to discuss it later if you're up to it.

In the past we've had the occasional passer by or maybe someone who already knows about boating. A few here a couple there asking questions. Never like we had this weekend. Kids running around. We were out manned really. Saturday in particular was scary. I was pretty rattled by the time the fireworks started. I absolutely can't let that happen again. I can't help but feel like we dodged a bullet this year.

[jfrancisco892]

Let's get done racing on saturday and then have sunday to relax and enjoy some adult beverages and the awards ceremony.

[427srule]

well the other though is make the sat a short day 3-4 classes? done by 2;30-3 then have plenty of time to pack and PARTY!!!!!!

Hey guys,

Sorry I missed this past race but would like to get there for the 2014 Nats.
I agree with Mike...Start earlier and finish earlier on Saturday.
Leaving Sunday mid morning would have the people driving a good distance get home way too late.

Thanks,
Mike

[Doby]

I absolutely can't let that happen again. I can't help but feel like we dodged a bullet this year.

Hi Terry:

Its not just on your shoulders...its on every racer/pit person to help keep things safe.

The CD's get busier than a one armed monkey swinging from trees trying to grab bananas while wearing an oven mitt!

Even with the best laid plans, things can squeak through so everyone needs to watch out for anything.

You guys did a hell of a job this year and its only going to get better!

[madmikepags]

hey terry I'll take care of bouncing the place!!!!!! I don't need to race as long as I am authorized to use deadly force while enforcing the rules!!!!! I'll bring a crew from the bronx, all they need is an excuse to leave "The Hood" no money needed!!!

[Doug Smock]

Hi Terry:

Its not just on your shoulders...its on every racer/pit person to help keep things safe.


:thumbup1::thumbup1:

[T.S.Davis]

I just spent an hour out there surveying. I got this.

[T.S.Davis]

101750

Preliminary layout attached.

We were talking about it earlier. We really only had a problem on Saturday. Maybe I'm over thinking it.

[rightturnonly]

Terry,

Has anyone thought about making the area up by the horse shoe pits a sort of show and tell area(could setup a canopy there)? From what I saw on Saturday we seemed to have a lot of spectators coming down to ask questions and get a closer look at the different boats. I'm sure we could get people to volunteer a little time to man that area. Not all of us will be racing every day and we could make it a NO Power area for safety/insurance purposes..

John Gross
Millbrook, AL

[T.S.Davis]

That's not a bad idea.

If we get more than 55 or so racers we may end up with a tents up there too. Still not sure how to do it.

[DPeterson]

I call first dibs for a trailer spot! :) Hopefully I will own my own trailer by then. Someone has to give Haines some pressure on the nicest trailer thing.

Consider this - Sell Pit Passes. Basically this would be the NAMBA event insurance $10.00. They can wear a different colored wrist band. I had a few guy's come through that had real interest. They are building whips and they have RC car racing and boat racing backgrounds. I don't usually like to converse during a race but these guys had that real interest thing going and it was great to help them out. This is great way to expand the sport/hobby.

The Pit Pass would or may increase funding for NAMBA.

When I go to drag races or truck pulls I always buy the pit pass.

Later - Doug

[madmikepags]

Hey Terry just thinking, how bout a kids Plim mono, LSO, LSH, and P-mono???? I know it adds 4 extra classes but you can do one each day so they have a kids class each day and they have a chance at winning more classes? and if they run in those classes they can't run in the adult version of that class? I know Ava will probably jump to all the regular classes next year except if u run a kids LSH.

[T.S.Davis]

I don't know. I can't keep up with my kid as it is.

[T.S.Davis]

So what do you guys think of the canopy deal? That's a pricey undertaking. Do you guys think it's something we should or shouldn't do?

[madmikepags]

big tent over the whole yard???? I'm in I'll sponsor it.

[Todd Fleury]

OK, I think all the ideas are great so far. Being back in my home state for the Nationals is going to be awesome! I am probably going to have to drive up to Walloon lake by Sunday, so finishing Saturday, would probably be best. I think having people for crowd control would be the cheapest option. I am considering sponsoring 1/8th scale again this year.

[Ken Haines]

Terry,
Your canopy layout looks ok, however as great as it would be to have the trailer on
the water, I think it works against the view. My trailer is even higher that the
canopy you had this year. I would suggest either using the upper 2 tiers or place the trailers
further to the ends. In my case I could go 20 feet further left than where I was.
I can place the couch inside the left side of the canopy if you are worried about
the lizaard lounge....lol.
Just a thought to accomodate the view that you are trying to achieve from the deck.
Your thoughts,
Ken

[T.S.Davis]

Ken, is your trailer 10ft tall? I could put trailers up against the tents I suppose.

The reason for the gap is that I wanted a lane. The Kabota thing, although well intentioned, isn't going to be viable if we go 60 people deep. I will be pushing to let cars through in the morning. In, unload, out the other end. I think I can sell the Elks on it once they realize how much work it will be. None of this taking 30 minutes to get yourself setup. In, dump your gear, out, next car.

Maybe if I rotate the drivers ramp again it will clear up more space. Maybe the trailers on the upper tear and the canopies on the flats?

[madmikepags]

trailers on the ends near where ken was and where the Wi guys were leave the middle open for canopies and tents so there is visibility.

[madmikepags]

you might have to limit guys to 1 10x10 also if there are that many racers???

[T.S.Davis]

I'll shuffle it again and see what I can come up with. The problem with the ends is that it's not flat. Plus on the right side by the gazebo we need open for the barge. The location that Kens trailer was this year would be inside my tent layout. My layout has tents about 25' beyond the location Ken was in. My tents on both ends terminate where the ground starts to climb out of the valley. If you follow. There's a nice flat just beyond the pines but that's a lllllong way from the pond.

The way I have it now there's only room for each racer to have a single table up to 52 racers. I suppose the kids don't really need a whole table so some will end up with two. Fred and I will probably set up closer to the stand. Budget as is would be in the $2600 range. Might simply be too little space at that $$$. If we just do tents for individuals like we usually do they'll have to be packed in tight. Doable. Maybe I need to stop worrying about how to get each guy to his pit and make it their problem. Provide some wagons and tell them to have at it. We survived on the beach at Spring Mill in 09 with no loading zones.

haha Still would all need to be approved by our club. No dictatorships in MMEU. Been there done that. I tend to dream a little big and then drag some kicking and screaming along for the ride.

Guys, keep the ideas coming. Their all just ideas at this point. None of us are so arrogant as to believe we can't improve or hear a better idea than our own. I started this thread so we could all bounce ideas off each other. FE has some of the sharpest people I've ever known in it's ranks.

I need to get the Elks to chop down that miserable mostly dead tree by the gazebo. It's right in the way.

Mikey, should we check with all the kids to see what they think about the kids spec everything idea? It doesn't suck. Most of us own the boats already that they can run.

[fas]

just thinking if we did the kids P-Limited thing with sport hydro,mono,offshore, cat 4 classes one each day we could award a Kids highpoints champ to how cool would that be say 15 and under and like mike said if you run in the kids you cant ran the counter part

[jaike5]

Hey guys, what a great race that was !!! Now for next year, what about power for well over a hundred chargers!! or do we bring our own generators . They would have to all be Honda's as the rest of them are just to noisy, we would be yelling at each other for a week just to be heard with ruptured vocal cords at the end of it all....

Cheers, Jay. race on :rockon2:

[T.S.Davis]

Great point Jay. Something to talk to the Elks about. If they would allow us access to power we can build panels.

[ray schrauwen]

...and test it out first under load....
Scheduled lunch breaks if possible would be nice...

Thanks for this years memories!


Great point Jay. Something to talk to the Elks about. If they would allow us access to power we can build panels.

[D. Newland]

Be careful with this. NAMBA's Kids rules are set up that they are all winners. I don't think it's a good idea to put our adult desires into their racing program.

If you have Al Waters CD'ing this event, he will absolutely have an opinion about this.


just thinking if we did the kids P-Limited thing with sport hydro,mono,offshore, cat 4 classes one each day we could award a Kids highpoints champ to how cool would that be say 15 and under and like mike said if you run in the kids you cant ran the counter part

[Shooter]

Power would be an absolute dream. However, (1) 20amp circuit (assuming they have one) is probably only good for ~2000watts. Charging (2) 6S packs at only 5amps is already at 200watts!!

[D. Newland]

And whisper quiet generators need to be mandatory for those racers bringing their own power. Probably 30+ generators will be there...humming for 5 days straight.

[Shooter]

Funny. We probably burn more fuel at FE races than nitro races!

[madmikepags]

not true about the 20 amp circuit, with my 2000 watt generator I was charging 4 6s packs and 4 4s packs at 13 amps each. I use a 100amp and 2 45 amp power supplies from 1 30amp circuit in my home and routinely run 6-8 chargers charging at 10+ amps each without any issues.

[T.S.Davis]

Be careful with this. NAMBA's Kids rules are set up that they are all winners. I don't think it's a good idea to put our adult desires into their racing program.

If you have Al Waters CD'ing this event, he will absolutely have an opinion about this.

Should we send them home to their moms the other 4 days? Get them out of the way of the real racers?

[madmikepags]

no just no high points is what I think Dave was talking about.

[Shooter]

not true about the 20 amp circuit, with my 2000 watt generator I was charging 4 6s packs and 4 4s packs at 13 amps each. I use a 100amp and 2 45 amp power supplies from 1 30amp circuit in my home and routinely run 6-8 chargers charging at 10+ amps each without any issues.

In my scenario above, I was only at about 200watts with (2) 6S batts. (I think you may have thought I had an extra 0 on the end??)

Anyhow, Mike's charging scenario:
4*25.2v*13a = 1310watts
4*16.8v*13a = 874watts
is at the theoretical maximum (about 2200watts) for a single 20a circuit, and he's only one guy!! The feasibility of provided power for 50 guys is starting to look bleak, unless we rent some HUGE welding generator or something??

[T.S.Davis]

I thought he was anti-multiple kids classes. The way the rule book reads, if a kid runs in the "Kids R Boaters" class they can run in NO other class at the nationals. Hence our interest in having more than one option for them. Not sure I give a crap what the rule book says on this. We'll do what's best regardless of the book.

The high points for kids I can live without. Heck any points for kids I could live without. Let them race heat to heat for fun. I suspect that's the point of the kids class. Get them on the water.

[madmikepags]

yes thats probably the best at the nats every kid gets a trophy for competing and they race each heat for a "victory" no points awarded. I'm pretty sure Ava will be competing with the big boys nexrt year, she really wants to run LSH and scale!!! I have created a monster.........I don't know if anyone saw her drive my LSH and scale after the races but she impressed me, just don't know how she'll be in traffic.

[AlanN]

Not sure I give a crap what the rule book says on this. We'll do what's best regardless of the book.

"And the worm has turned for you."

Platoon

[T.S.Davis]

Haha I was just razzing Dave about how that when your part of the NAMBA hierarchy that you tend to defend the rules like a lion protecting it's cubs.

[DPeterson]

As long as your willing to accumulate ideas.

1. Need larger launch dock. Minumun 6 boats need to be launched at one time for the 30 sec clock. If not and you need to launch boats early in order to get them in the water, you need then to rule that those boats park behind the start line prior to the 30 sec clock or they had better be milling. At the race many boats went in early and parked on lane one up by bouy one. Not good.

2. Need to clarify the mill lap rules rounding turn 3 and 4. Boats should be making a radius around these turns. Going out towards the offshore bouy and slingshotting into the lanes prior to the start line is troublesome.

3. Minumun 10 boats make a class. IMO opinion time to shake the dust out of the rug. Flamesuit on!

4. Minimum 4 heats and preferably 6. I know - wishfull thinking.

5. Bouy hits should be point deductions. NAMBA's got this wrong and IMPBA has it right. Earplugs in!

6. Ties should should end in a run off and not by heat times. Another NAMBA wrong and an IMPBA right. Good racers run fast enough to stay ahead of the pack, they don't run for fast times. Times should then not be a determining factor for an outright win. Steel toed boots on!

Very glad to offer input. Doug

[T.S.Davis]

Doug,

1. Agreed
2. Yep. We need better contest directors. No offense to anyone.
3. bite me
4. 4 will happen. 6 will take another week of racing
5. It's discretionary. I called some hits and let some go. IMPBA also only charges 50 points for those calls. Not enough IMO so score to NAMBA.
6. We've done it that way before. Not gonna happen at a nats. Plus, the fast guys that know a hot time might be the difference will run the hot laps. Because they can. Doug Junior knows how many points you have before he launches his boat. If a tie is likely he lays one down. That's how the really fast guys do it.

[T.S.Davis]

That reminds me. Is anyone ready for 40 entries in LSH? I could see that happening.

[Doug Smock]

Haha I was just razzing Dave about how that when your part of the NAMBA hierarchy that you tend to defend the rules like a lion protecting it's cubs.

LOL That's not right is it David??:wink:

[DPeterson]

LOL Terry

3. Can't bite ya. I'm not swinging both ways these days.

4. Could happen if the dust got shook out of the rug. 3 boats make a class - OK - I'll bring 3 tug boats, 3 sail boats and 3 wind up's. Going to be a lot of classes. Iv'e seen where 3 boats show up so a one boat heat takes place for a record. Good stuff!

5. I agree. The point system IMPBA uses has faults. Still better than NAMBA. Iv'e got a better point system layed out. Nobody cares.

6. Funny - There are many guy's that can lay down a lap as good as Doug. J. Most choose not to when they are in the lead. By upgrading to the more current popularity of 4-6 heats, the ties become way more infrequent. So it may be a mute point. I'll for sure have a different approach.

[T.S.Davis]

4. The only classes at MI that goes 3 boats might be 1/8 scale and open hydro. Let's make it at least 3 flights make a heat.
5. Sacred cow. I care. Unfortunately, getting gas and nitro to even listen is not going to happen.
6. Most? Not sure how you can know that. Buass, Newland, Sims, Twaits, PAGS..........they're thinking about it. 4 rounds is required for a nats. That might help.

[fas]

Doug

3)as for biting Terry I will have a talk with him that's my Job LOL


4)We are talking about the min boats right now and we are more then likely looking at 6 to make a class because as Terry was saying I can see 40 boat P-Limited mono, Sport, and offshore just because we had 23 boats with only 34 people and I Look for this to go 50 people if we get lucky so 40 boats would not be out of the question
if you think about it 40 boats 8 boat heets, retrieve time and race time that would be 8 min per heet start to start 5 heets 4 rounds that's that's over 2 1/2 hours of the day for just one class just to let you know at the Michigan cup on Friday we ran avg of 11 min per heet not to fast but we still ran behind on Saturday and sunday we were at 10 min a heet but we took a 30 min lunch also


5)not a battle I am willing to take on at this time

6) myself I like to see runoffs for ties( as there were heets at the MC that pit guys didn't get times and it could of made the out come different