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angrycat
05-30-2013, 02:17 PM
hey guys running a bj 29 with the stock 1800kv motor with the stock 80a esc and turning a x642 s&b prop and have 2x 3s 5000mah 45c hyperions ive been running it on. my question is that if i switch over to high timing should i prop down to the x442 i have or can i stay with the x642? i have hit 125 degrees on the motor but that was after running it all day in mild chop and a few all out runs. also i will be repairing my old bj29 that split right down the left sponson seam so if anyone has some high quality epoxy resin for fiberglass and carbon please let me know. i just need enough to put a thin layer of cf on and laminate it

JimClark
05-30-2013, 02:23 PM
What do you think High timing is going to do for you?

angrycat
06-05-2013, 06:03 PM
well i bought a s&b m442 prop, a s&b x442 and x642. i guess ill use the x642 on low timing for chop days and small pond runs and the x442/m442 for all oout saw runs on high timing. am i right?

hydro_pyro
06-05-2013, 07:37 PM
70+ mph on the stock motor and ESC? You're dreaming.

BHChieftain
06-06-2013, 09:35 AM
The timing settings are more for motor efficiency. The stock motor likes low timing, high will just cause it to run hot and won't result in much speed difference. The only meaningful way to get more RPMs is either a higher KV motor or more lipo cells, but if you do that you should upgrade the ESC as well.

Also, these RTR hulls are not really strong enough to handle crashing at 70mph speeds. If you want to go the high speed route you need to reinforce the hulls. You might be better off keeping this boat as your fun 50mph sports boat and build a high speed boat from scratch with a hull designed for it. Other thing is high speed will greatly reduce runtimes-- you'll need to run 2P configs to keep runtimes in the 4+min range.

Chief

angrycat
06-06-2013, 02:24 PM
The timing settings are more for motor efficiency. The stock motor likes low timing, high will just cause it to run hot and won't result in much speed difference. The only meaningful way to get more RPMs is either a higher KV motor or more lipo cells, but if you do that you should upgrade the ESC as well.

Also, these RTR hulls are not really strong enough to handle crashing at 70mph speeds. If you want to go the high speed route you need to reinforce the hulls. You might be better off keeping this boat as your fun 50mph sports boat and build a high speed boat from scratch with a hull designed for it. Other thing is high speed will greatly reduce runtimes-- you'll need to run 2P configs to keep runtimes in the 4+min range.

Chief
thanks for the info. i know running high timing on a 6 pole motor is kinda pointless but i was mainly asking because i have 2 super edf 1900kv 3659 motors and a 130a HV seaking waiting to be installed. also i understand that these hulls weren't meant for the beating im putting them through which is why i now have one bj set up for the 50 mph zone and i have another bj in the works that cracked a few weeks back at the seam. i epoxied the seam inside and out, sanded and layered 2 medium thickness strips of fiberglass over the seams on both sides. now i am in the process of laying carbon kevlar down as much of the hull as i can reach and glassing it where i will be setting my electronics. i might even pour a little expanding foam down in the tips to keep everything rigid. like i said i have one bj that is just for fun and now i want one thats all out

angrycat
06-06-2013, 02:27 PM
70+ mph on the stock motor and ESC? You're dreaming.

lol was not asking about stock parts. it was a question relating more to the parts im putting in the other hull i have

Arizonaheat
06-06-2013, 05:34 PM
The timing settings are more for motor efficiency. The stock motor likes low timing, high will just cause it to run hot and won't result in much speed difference. The only meaningful way to get more RPMs is either a higher KV motor or more lipo cells, but if you do that you should upgrade the ESC as well.

Also, these RTR hulls are not really strong enough to handle crashing at 70mph speeds. If you want to go the high speed route you need to reinforce the hulls. You might be better off keeping this boat as your fun 50mph sports boat and build a high speed boat from scratch with a hull designed for it. Other thing is high speed will greatly reduce runtimes-- you'll need to run 2P configs to keep runtimes in the 4+min range.

Chief

Not really...the timing is dictated on the number of turns, number of poles and the type of winding (Wye or Delta).
I would start with low timing (0-5 deg) just in case and see how the boat runs. Advance to medium timing (5-15 deg), run the boat for a minute or so and check for higher temps. If it is a Y wind, then between 10 and 15 deg should work. The UL-1 is a 4 pole and works well at 11.25 deg.

angrycat
06-09-2013, 01:11 AM
i ran the x442 today on low timing with the strut slightly adjusted up and angled down slightly more, the bats still tucked up near the motor. i got a bunch of semi flat out runs but still managed 2 minor blow overs. bolth times landed right side up so i just ran it till the batts were starting to get low and brought it in. the motor was at about 145 ish inside the can, the batts were 125 deg F and esc was 83-84 F. so i just finished charging the bats (btw i installed EC5 batt connectors and 5.5 gold plated esc/motor bullet connectors) i also installed the m440 prop i had laying around that was already sharpened and balanced so ill leave the strut height and hope it compensates, if not then i shall have to dremmel out more of the strut slot to get a better angle and also try bending that tube more. its tough to bend that without feeling like im going to break the hull. any opinions/questions

BHChieftain
06-09-2013, 01:16 AM
Not really...the timing is dictated on the number of turns, number of poles and the type of winding (Wye or Delta).
I would start with low timing (0-5 deg) just in case and see how the boat runs. Advance to medium timing (5-15 deg), run the boat for a minute or so and check for higher temps. If it is a Y wind, then between 10 and 15 deg should work. The UL-1 is a 4 pole and works well at 11.25 deg.

My comment was specific to the stock motor in this boat.

Chief


Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk 2

angrycat
06-09-2013, 01:28 AM
i just found it weird how the x642 ran cooler than the x442, if the m44o works i might bump up to a m442 if i can find one lol

Arizonaheat
06-09-2013, 07:57 PM
My comment was specific to the stock motor in this boat.

Chief


Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk 2

Specific to the UL-1 would be 11.25 degrees...

bigwaveohs
06-11-2013, 12:31 PM
The efficiency of a DC brushless motor is dictated by its quality. A motor with higher efficiency is better designed and uses higher quality components (magnets, wire & etc.). The higher efficiency motor produces more power and less heat; an 85% efficient motor produces 85% power and 15% heat.
Timing does not determine efficiency (thatís built into the motor); but advancing the timing too far can produce excessive heat due to higher current draw. You can push a higher efficiency motor with higher timing, but eventually it too will over heat.

angrycat
06-19-2013, 02:33 AM
well the inevitable happened and my capacitors blew after running for 30 seconds 2 days ago but i was kinda wondering about running 6s with a built in bec to begin with. i had a sea king 130a HV esc so i threw that in the boat for now. i went ahead and dremeled more out of my strut so i could raise the prop and give it slightly more down angle. i had the batts even with the end of the trays and she was still bouncing a bit so i moved the batts up a hare and it helped a little but i think i still might need to raise the strut. my timing on the esc is 7.50 deg. and i am running a s&b m440. the motor temps are just over 130 after running for 3-5 mins and esc temps are just about 90 and the capps are at 120. that is also with double cooling i should add. i custom made a dual rudder set up with break away brackets so i could run separate cooling for motor and esc. what can i do to bring temps down further??? should i stick with the m440 or run my x442 with the strut higher? kinda stumped and need help

BHChieftain
06-19-2013, 08:58 AM
well the inevitable happened and my capacitors blew after running for 30 seconds 2 days ago but i was kinda wondering about running 6s with a built in bec to begin with. i had a sea king 130a HV esc so i threw that in the boat for now. i went ahead and dremeled more out of my strut so i could raise the prop and give it slightly more down angle. i had the batts even with the end of the trays and she was still bouncing a bit so i moved the batts up a hare and it helped a little but i think i still might need to raise the strut. my timing on the esc is 7.50 deg. and i am running a s&b m440. the motor temps are just over 130 after running for 3-5 mins and esc temps are just about 90 and the capps are at 120. that is also with double cooling i should add. i custom made a dual rudder set up with break away brackets so i could run separate cooling for motor and esc. what can i do to bring temps down further??? should i stick with the m440 or run my x442 with the strut higher? kinda stumped and need help

Was it the stock ESC that gave out?
Chief

angrycat
06-19-2013, 03:55 PM
Was it the stock ESC that gave out?
Chief yes it was the stock 80a 6s esc and motor. i had gone about a half lap around the pond and was just up on plane about 1/4 throttle and just about got to 1/2 when it just stopped and the smoke came pouring out of the boat. brought it in and the esc battery wires had melted out of the esc and the capacitors had blown and leaked out the acid so it took a bit of cleaning to get it somewhat normal. i am going to raise the strut up 1mm more and try one more run with the m440 before i try my stock prop but it is just slightly sharpened and polished since my prop balancer broke recently.

angrycat
06-19-2013, 05:16 PM
the esc was always under 90 degrees after a run and the water cooling was working really well too keeping the base of it around 60 -70 deg, but my motor is still getting hot quick

hydro_pyro
06-20-2013, 07:22 PM
I have never noticed heat from the caps in the stock ESC. Bad battery connections? Bad luck?

BHChieftain
06-21-2013, 10:53 AM
I really like the stock ESC but up to 4S (I REALLY like the level of water resistance on them-- I have had several completely underwater several times and have never had one fail due to water intrusion yet-- in fact, I've run 5 different boats with this ESC and the only time I've had any failure was when my cooling line got clogged due to water debris and my entire system overheated).

I think 6S is really pushing it myself. But if you use 6S on it it might help if you did not use the internal BEC and run a separate RX battery pack-- that should remove some stress from the system.
Chief

angrycat
06-24-2013, 03:15 PM
I really like the stock ESC but up to 4S (I REALLY like the level of water resistance on them-- I have had several completely underwater several times and have never had one fail due to water intrusion yet-- in fact, I've run 5 different boats with this ESC and the only time I've had any failure was when my cooling line got clogged due to water debris and my entire system overheated).

I think 6S is really pushing it myself. But if you use 6S on it it might help if you did not use the internal BEC and run a separate RX battery pack-- that should remove some stress from the system.
Chief

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh184/nwv327/IMG_20130609_184106_394_zps6aa2324c.jpg (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/nwv327/media/IMG_20130609_184106_394_zps6aa2324c.jpg.html) this was before the dual rudder and running a m440 prop
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh184/nwv327/IMG_20130609_184144_082_zpsf5ce3b34.jpg (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/nwv327/media/IMG_20130609_184144_082_zpsf5ce3b34.jpg.html)
this is the dual rudder and water supply with the stock esc
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh184/nwv327/IMG_20130610_185259_079_zps460fd4e8.jpg (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/nwv327/media/IMG_20130610_185259_079_zps460fd4e8.jpg.html)

stock esc and capacitors went =
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh184/nwv327/IMG_20130612_182444_918_zps35cd22b7.jpg (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/nwv327/media/IMG_20130612_182444_918_zps35cd22b7.jpg.html)

i went and installed the seaking 130a HV esc and lowered the timing with the programming card and i am using a dimension engineering sport bec, with the esc not running through the bec. i also dremmeled more out of the strut and was able to raise it a little more wich helped a bit even tho there is still a bit of bounce in it on top end. and im still getting hot even with dual water cooling?
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh184/nwv327/IMG_20130623_173948_307_zps87106df0.jpg (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/nwv327/media/IMG_20130623_173948_307_zps87106df0.jpg.html)http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh184/nwv327/IMG_20130623_174008_694_zpscdd386d6.jpg (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/nwv327/media/IMG_20130623_174008_694_zpscdd386d6.jpg.html)

angrycat
07-02-2013, 01:55 PM
i will be running the boat with stock prop and possibly trying to de tongue an old x642 because even running with an m440 i hit 135 on the motor within 3-4 minuets. i might just buy a few 2s packs and throw a regular x642 prop on it and leave the 6s for the carbon blackjack hull im building if i cant get the temps down .....

lenny
07-02-2013, 07:36 PM
Hi,
Are you sure water is flowing good in and out of the motor water jacket ?
I changed the nipple on my HRC to the stock leopard nipples an got a lot better flow now,
Some times the stock jacket nipples are to far in and slow the flow of the water in and out a lot.
Because the almost touch the motor can,
And also debris in the water will get stuck and build up like a dam if they are to close to the can to.
Take a look at this post.
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?41522-Silicone-tubing-question

BHChieftain
07-02-2013, 07:43 PM
Also double check your spacing between the drive dog and strut-- you want 2-3mm as the flex cable shrinks under load.
Chief

Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk 2

lenny
07-02-2013, 08:42 PM
Ditch the thrust washer and that will give you more room,
I do not use them on any of my boats.

angrycat
07-17-2013, 06:11 PM
so the motor finally went, i shouldnt say the motor went but rather one of the wires broke off inside the motor can. i never realized how small the wires actually were untill i had it side by side with the turnigy sk3 i was swapping it out for. so now i will be running the sk3 1900kv 3659 with the m440 prop. quality of the turnigy motor seems excellent so hopefully i wil have better luck running 6s in her and be closer to the 65-70 mark now that i finally have the strut dialed in. quick question, does anyone know if i can purchase de-tongued props? preferrably a x442 sharpened balanced and detounged? not that i dont know how to do it but im just not 100% comfortable cutting up a $30 prop just to screw it up

angrycat
07-20-2013, 11:00 AM
well initial tests went well and temps never got over 138 which is pretty good imo for a 4 pole 1900kv that i installed as more of a joke to see how it would compare to the stock motor. i might try the 1600kv motor within the next few days with an x442 and see how the temps look. also who makes a good amp data logging system that is fairly priced and sized?

BHChieftain
07-20-2013, 11:09 AM
The smallest "stock" detounged prop from octura that I have ever been able to find is the M445 (the "M" indicates it is detounged). You'll need to make your own m442 from an x442, or you could take an M445 and reduce the diameter. Note the M445 hub is really long compared the x442.

Chief

angrycat
07-20-2013, 11:11 AM
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh184/nwv327/IMG_20130717_145108_624_zps42909a1c.jpg (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/nwv327/media/IMG_20130717_145108_624_zps42909a1c.jpg.html)
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh184/nwv327/IMG_20130717_145148_082_zps1afa5e89.jpg (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/nwv327/media/IMG_20130717_145148_082_zps1afa5e89.jpg.html)
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh184/nwv327/IMG_20130718_193233_908_zpsc6131d55.jpg (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/nwv327/media/IMG_20130718_193233_908_zpsc6131d55.jpg.html)
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh184/nwv327/IMG_20130718_193223_567_zps72f8a04f.jpg (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/nwv327/media/IMG_20130718_193223_567_zps72f8a04f.jpg.html)

angrycat
07-20-2013, 12:27 PM
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh184/nwv327/vlcsnap-2013-05-28-16h08m42s1582_zpsc5eade59.png (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/nwv327/media/vlcsnap-2013-05-28-16h08m42s1582_zpsc5eade59.png.html)
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh184/nwv327/vlcsnap-2013-05-28-16h10m18s93222_zps2dd4624e.png (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/nwv327/media/vlcsnap-2013-05-28-16h10m18s93222_zps2dd4624e.png.html)
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh184/nwv327/vlcsnap-2013-05-28-16h40m29s22_zps39eb1d27.png (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/nwv327/media/vlcsnap-2013-05-28-16h40m29s22_zps39eb1d27.png.html)

angrycat
07-30-2013, 12:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPBydb4EiQA&feature=share&list=UUAE2EYdibIzvZ3Q4HJ7PsRA


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