Livewire's EKOS Build

[Livewire121]

Let me start this thread off by saying, I'm completely new to FE boating.I have over 25 years of rc experience. Over those years I've raced everything from 2wd/4wd buggies, touring car, 1/8 off-road, and 1/7 GT on-road. But I never had any interest in boats until this year, when my in-laws bought a 40'trailer. The park they have the trailer in doesn't allow any nitro powered vehicles, which just so happens to be all of my current vehicles....bummer! So I picked up a AQ Mini Mono, we'll call it my gateway boat. I was very pleased with It's performance, that I showed it to some of the guys I race with. And they ended up picking it up as well. But of course that can only lead to bigger things, and before I knew it, they were getting Spartans, Revolts, and Stilettos. So I decided to go with the EKOS, knowing as a rtr it had its short comings to say the least.

Just to be able to run with my friends, I knew I had to up grade the motors and esc's. So I got a pair of Leopard 2860 2190kv motors and a pair of Turnigy 120amp esc's. I was able to reach 60mph on 6s before the ice set in. So this is where I left the boat at the end of the season.
After reading as much as I could on this awesome forum, I took notes from experienced members threads such as, LarrysDrifter, DrWayne, Keith Bradley, Darin Jordan, Ray schrauwen, and others. To gut this thing and build it proper!

[Livewire121]

After pulling all of the running gear out of the hull I removed all of the excess epoxy with my dremel. I rough sanded the hull with 100 grit sand paper to prep the surface to lay in carbon fiber for the first time. Here's a list of what I picked up to do the job.
1 linear yard of carbon fiber cloth (2x2 twill)
2 linear yards of vacuum bagging film
1" finned wetout roller
A box of Z-Poxy Pt40 finishing resin
A few 1" and 2" brushes
And some 1" and 3" squeegees
1 can of 3M spay on glue
92956

[Livewire121]

9294392944I wish I had taken pics of how I layed the carbon. But like I said I was trying this for the first time.Here's a couple pics of how the hull turned out. Not 100% perfect, but not to bad for a first attempt. :smile:

[Livewire121]

here's a pic of the hatch lid, I should have tried to lay this in one piece tho92946

[Livewire121]

The size of the sheet of carbon fiber cloth I had was 36"x50", so I had tons of material. For the hull I layed in two layers 19" long but I can't remember the width. There's a couple little tricks to cutting this stuff. When you've layed out all of your stencils and you know the size of the piece that has to be cut from the roll. Look for one thread on the edge of the roll, hold on to it, and slowly pull it out. After you've removed it, you'll notice removing that thread has left you with a perfect line to cut down. I would do this for each stencil. Once I cut down that line that was made, I would spray each piece of cloth with a spray on glue. Doing this stops the weave in the cloth from wanting to open and it makes it so that you can cut out the stencils.

[Rocstar]

Looks good man! Are you going to reinforce the windshield? A flip at high speed will blow out the the stock one. I have seen some use a thicker piece of acrylic. I put the carbon fiber over the windshield when I did the hatch.
92949

[Livewire121]

I'm not sure what I'm going to do about the window yet. I'm debating on using a Eagle tree system with the gps unit, If I do I'll have to keep the window clear.

[Livewire121]

Here's a better pic of the interior92954

[Livewire121]

After the spray on glue has had time to dry, place the stencil on the cloth and cut it out. Like I said earlier I was putting in two layers of carbon fiber. The first layer was cut at a 45 degree angle and the second layer was cut at a 90 degree angle. The reason I did this was to add strength in all directions.
Here's how it's done.
1. Mask off the hull.
2. Place the first layer on the vacuum film and wet it down with resin.
3. Place the second layer on top of the first layer.
4. Fold the film over the top so it's like a taco lol.
5. Now take the 3" squeegee and squeegee out the excess resin, now you have a piece of pre-preg cloth. Leave it there for a few mins.
6. Time to wet down the interior of the hull.
7. After the hull has been wetted go back to the pre-preg and cut the excess film and resin away.
8. Peel one side of the film off, leaving film on the top side. Doing this allows you to fold and work the cloth into it's position in the hull.
9. Lightly squeegee the center tunnel and use the finned roller to work the cloth into the sponsons.
10. Now carefully peel the film off.
11. With the film removed continue to work the cloth with the roller until all the air pockets are gone and the cloth is laid flat against the hull.
And that's it! Next I'm going to blue print the hull.

[Livewire121]

In the pic you'll see everything I needed to blue print the sponsons.
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[Livewire121]

Start with 100-120 grit sandpaper to remove the paint and get down to the work surface.93077930789307993080

[Livewire121]

Now wipe the hull down to remove any dust. I used methy hydrate to do this, because it dries quickly with no residue. After that you can go ahead and lay down the bondo.
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[Livewire121]

Now that the bondo has had time to dry, I started to block sand with 180 grit sandpaper.
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Pay close attention to the inside edge of the sponsons aswell as the trailing edge at the back of the sponsons.
You want to make these edges as sharp and as square as possible.
After I finished that step I applied a coat of glazing putty to the sponson. When it was dry I block sanded again with 400 grit sandpaper
to finish the surface.

[Livewire121]

Final steps are prime and paint.
931749317593176

[Livewire121]

I've got some time before my parts orders get here to complete the build. So I thought I'd water proof my electronics. This is what I used, but Steven here at OSE carries this as well. http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ose-dp270
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[Livewire121]

I applied 3-4 coats on everything from the ESC's to the BEC

93179931819318293183

Shrink wrap it again and you're done!

[Livewire121]

Well while I was waiting for parts to come in, I thought I'd add some lights. My friends and I usually meet up in the evenings to run, and we pretty much push it until we can barely see the boats! This should solve that......I should add that these are controlled by the third channel on the receiver.

[Livewire121]

After I finished the hatch, some of my parts came in. I removed the red anodizing and polished the venom parts. After these pics I trimmed the battery trays, took 1/8 off each side. So I can get the batts as low as possible and so I could carry bigger packs. Here's the mock up of the final layout. I epoxied in the motor mounts and servo tonight.

[Livewire121]

Oh yeah I also added sponson water pickups, that was no fun at all. I've got some touch up paint work to do at the end of the build.

[Livewire121]

I was going to pickup some 45mm 1.8 pitch 3 blade props for my Leopard 2860 2190kv motors, before I got my ARC 3665 2080kv motors. I just checked the speed calculator and it says the boat should reach 94mph on 6s with the ARCs!! Is that right and how accurate is it?!

[Rocstar]

Looking good....The lights are a cool touch. 6s is a pretty hot setup for those motors in the EKOS. I think your pushing the limits of the T-120 ESC's also. That boat would rock on 5s with x442's IMO.

[Livewire121]

Looking good....The lights are a cool touch. 6s is a pretty hot setup for those motors in the EKOS. I think your pushing the limits of the T-120 ESC's also. That boat would rock on 5s with x442's IMO.
Thanks about the lights. Last season my Leopard 2860mm 2190kv motors handled 6s no problem. I thought by going down in the kv these motors would have handled 6s even better? I never had heat problems with the smaller motors, do you think these motors will pull very high amps?:confused2:

[Rocstar]

The motors should be fine, it's the ESCs. If set up correctly 5s could put you in the 60mph range, I would run 6s for SAW only and keep the props reasonable as I think you'll be over the ESC current limits and any extended runs could let the smoke out.

[Livewire121]

I might have to save my lunch money and step up the esc's to 200 amp swordy's lol or maybe a pair of Navy Race 150 Optos :rockon2:

[Livewire121]

Well another order came in and I was able to finish the final layout. I still need to complete the wiring, battery positions, rudder/servo setup, touch up paint work, and flotation. I'm still not sure what I'm going to use for flotation though? Either 2 part close cell expanding foam or pool noodles....any suggestions?? 9451594516945179451894519

[mtbenjamin77]

use pool noodles they can be easily removed and dried out and or replaced.

[Rocstar]

Looks good man. I would used noodles also and if you have an old life jacket, the layered foam inside works well too.

[Livewire121]

I still have the original foam that came with the boat.

[Livewire121]

Tks....I can't wait to get her out in the water! Joel I had made some cap banks for the t-120's, hope it helps with smooth out the high voltage demands from these motors?! The caps are low esr 50v 1000uf, 4000uf per esc.

[Livewire121]

I see that Atomic (Venom) are releasing another 34" cat. Oh wait that isn't a new boat, it's just a rebadged EKOS. Same motors, same esc's, same problems. I guess they don't mind missing a chance to improve their models!! And the kick in the pants is, it has no real world licensing fees like they had with the King Of Shaves. You would think there would be a price drop, but know it's listed $30 more then the EKOS!! I had to up grade this thing right out of the box just so I could run with my friends proboats, aquacrafts, and spartans. IMO this is there chance to make this a more competitive rtr....just my two cents!:frusty:

[Livewire121]

Oh one more thing, I've read every thread on this venom board front to back ten times over. And I've read every complaint, problem, and short coming, to bad Venom doesn't listen to their customers. I really think they've missed the boat on this one!!!:Sinking:

[Chrisg81983]

Looks good bro I hope she runs good for you the only problem is that your esc's are most likely aren't gonna be up to the 6s task. I would use the t-180's over the sf-200, and if you can spend even a little more get the etti 150 opto's. I have used all three of those esc and I punished the crap out of the ettis.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Our new products are Much stonger : )
They're listening trust me..

[Livewire121]

Our new products are Much stonger : )
They're listening trust me..
Thanks for the reply Bill. I've looked the specs over on this new boat, but I can't see any difference between it and my EKOS when it was stock. Is there something I missed?

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Thanks for the reply Bill. I've looked the specs over on this new boat, but I can't see any difference between it and my EKOS when it was stock. Is there something I missed?

Its mainly our new boats that have been improved, but I do know that my newer Ekos has upgraded motors and bracketery..

[Livewire121]

What are the specs on the new motors? Aren't they 380 2700kv out runners, with the 380 clamp mounts?

[Livewire121]

Its mainly our new boats that have been improved, but I do know that my newer Ekos has upgraded motors and bracketery..

Hey Bill,
Here's an idea release a limited edition EKOS, one with parts Atomic already sells. Use the 2200kv out runners from the P1, the larger clamp motor mounts, and your 120amp esc's. I would bet that this boat config would have been less criticized and would be more competitive against other rtr's in it's price range ($600). But I do understand that at this price point, it would cut into the profit margins.
Food for thought.

Richard

[Livewire121]

Well its been a while since my last post. But during that time I had some .078 wire drives with 3/16 stub shafts made and I drilled the stringers out to 3/16 aswell. I'm in the process of completing the wiring and hoping I can take her for a maiden run this weekend.

[Livewire121]

Its mainly our new boats that have been improved, but I do know that my newer Ekos has upgraded motors and bracketery..
Hi Bill,
I was looking forward to your reply regarding venoms new 32" cat?

[Rocstar]

Cool man, I want to see her run. Get some video. :thumbup1:

[Livewire121]

Thanks joel, man I can't wait!!

[ray schrauwen]

You do great work, I'm impressed!

[Livewire121]

Thanks Ray! I'll know how well the build went on sunday of there's no :flashfire:

[Livewire121]

I took her for a run yesterday and it went well. I have to make a couple adjustments to the stingers (trim up) to get the transom to stay planted, but in all I was very happy. Here's a couple short videos of her running on 6s. The first video is her running a set of 42mm props and the second video is her running 45mm props.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVILcr42xB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTtLTTGLfGc

[Chrisg81983]

Looking good man

[Rocstar]

:thumbup1: Good Job Richard,

[Livewire121]

Thanks Chris. Once I have her trimmed I'll really start to push her:w00t:

[Livewire121]

Thanks Joel! The sad thing is my friend lost his Revolt 30 yesterday, she sank 30 feet from shore. Time to plan a salvage mission.

[Livewire121]

Here's another video running the Prop Shop 42mm 1.7 pitch props. She's had the trim done and she's running perfect!:rockon2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AzWuZoEhDI&feature=youtu.be

[T3tsaya]

Any way I can achieve this speed with my kos without spending over 400 I currently have a seaking 180 and running 6s would like to keep them but I want the boat to be safe at the speed your running aka not burning anything up

[Livewire121]

Any way I can achieve this speed with my kos without spending over 400 I currently have a seaking 180 and running 6s would like to keep them but I want the boat to be safe at the speed your running aka not burning anything up

So you have two seaking 180's, but what motors are you using, and are you still running the stock flex drives?

[T3tsaya]

I am running a single outrunner setup with a m545 and a seaking 180 with updated flex drive and I'm in the high 50s

[Livewire121]

I'm not familiar with the m545 outrunner, what's the kv rated at?

[T3tsaya]

M545 is an octura prop and the outrunner is 1600 kv

[Livewire121]

Lol! Since your limited to 6s with that esc, you could try propping up to a X646 or a X648. But you're going to have to be careful, start with the X646, and check the temps after the first minute, then after two mins and so on to make sure everything is ok. If the temps are ok after that, then you could try going up to the 648, and then repeat the temp check again. The 646 will get you close to 60mph and the 648 will get you over 60mph. Maybe someone else can chime in on this, as I don't have a lot of experience running outrunners.

Richard

[T3tsaya]

Well I think it already at 60 or super close but I want it to for sure be at or over 60 safely and what's the difference between like m546 and an x646

[T3tsaya]

Any other motor would be okay for sure I don't mind buying a motor and prop but I want it to be over 60 for sure with a seaking 180 and 6s and be safe I'm still new to boats and I heard that a 648 would blow my motor up this outrunner at least

[Livewire121]

The 5 stands for 1.5 pitch 46mm (546) and the 6 stands for 1.6 pitch 46mm (646)

[Livewire121]

What brand of motor is it??

[Livewire121]

Well I think it already at 60 or super close but I want it to for sure be at or over 60 safely and what's the difference between like m546 and an x646

The only way to know how fast its going, is to put a GPS in it

[T3tsaya]

It's a fighter cat outrunner and I do need to get a gps

[Livewire121]

You don't have to get one, but it does take all of the guess work out. If you think it close to 60mph and and the temps are stable, then just leave it as is. Once you start trying to get to 70mph the margin for error goes up.

[T3tsaya]

Yea I need to temp I hear that outrunners are usually warmer then most around the 150 to 160 range right now

[ray schrauwen]

I see I have much work to do on my 41" Fantasm. I still have questions of the CF laminating but, in time...

[Cooper]

Looks like a good build live wire, and ray, get that fantasim done!! Slap in the laminate, realize how easy it is and the next build will be even better!!

[ray schrauwen]

Got the CF, MAAS epoxy. I'm just a scared to do it cause it's so big!! I've done the inside of my Geico but, too much epoxy & weight...

It'll get there... need that other stuff to get it done right. I haven't bought 3M spray adhesive and the other stuff I bought seemed to make the CF stiff and unworkable????? I wish I could go without the spray glue..

[Cooper]

Sometimes just some scotch tape on the edge will keep from fraying, like 1/8", can use a sewing machine too, I like that method if I'm using cf to cover some tight corners. If you are using spray adhesive it will potentially not allow it to bend like you say. Every application different, just think ahead like you are and the epoxy isn't what adds the strength it's the wetting of the fiber. Try and remove as much epoxy after its been wetted, that will help keep it light.

[Livewire121]

@ Ray you can you the spray adhesive just on the edges of the cloth, you won't need very much at all. Cooper is right about removing as much of the epoxy as possible.

@ Cooper thank you very much.

[RIPTIDE]

any recommendations on flex drives? any drop in upgrades out there on the market?

[RIPTIDE]

any recommendations on flex drives? any drop in upgrades out there on the market?

[Livewire121]

I think Jeff Wholt makes drop in flex drives for the EKOS, you can msg him here on OSE. He also makes wire drives for the EKOS as well, which is what I upgraded to.

[RIPTIDE]

Are wire drives more durable than the stock flex cables? any advantages to a wire drive setup?

[Livewire121]

Yes they are way more durable then the stock flexs. And one advantage to them is, there is no left and right rotation to worry about.

[RIPTIDE]

do I have to worry about the wire drive compressing in length when under full throttle? I tend to space my drive dogs a couple mm away from the end of my strut from fear that they do shrink a bit from being twisted

[Livewire121]

No compression to worry about with wire drives, but leave about a 1mm gap none the less.

[RIPTIDE]

Hey I just realized your from ON. Have you had any experience ordering from kintec? There aren't any hobby shops near my area as I have to make at least an hour drive to visit one

[Livewire121]

Yes I've ordered from Jan @ Kintec and from Steven here @ OSE, without any problems.