Painting with a spray gun...first time..

[electric]

So I have a bunch of automotive paint inbound(HOK paint, 2k clear etc). I have small boat 25" I am going to paint to get the hang of all this. My first basic question is what kind of gun do I need? I got some Harbor Freight airbrush guns and they seem to lay down up to about a 2" wide paint strip at best. Is this to narrow for a small rc boat? I like that they do not throw a lot of extra paint in the air compared to a can. The atomization of the pain droplets absolutely blows away a spray can. Do I need to get more of a small automotive gun to get a wide enough spread? Can some recommend an inexpensive one if needed?

Second do you mostly hang the boat to paint so you can get the entire hull, or is there a process to paint the top and then the bottom? I would prefer that if possible because the setup for the paint area will be easier for me. I will be doing a two part prime, sand, hok paint, sand, clear, wetsand, polish.

Will probably take some pics of this as I go and make a build/paint thread of this...

[G-UNIT]

I have see inexpencive touch up guns in flea markets or harbor freight for around 15.00 and the work very well with a nice size pattern and it should work great for what you want to do.
I would say to hang if possible rather then do one side then the other, I have been using cans and its a pain in the you know were.
good luck and am looking to see how you do.

[tunnelvission]

http://www.harborfreight.com/hvlp-detail-spray-gun-46719.html
HVLP gravity fed touch up gun

[Heaving Earth]

At 43 psi I wouldn't call that low pressure but will do fine I'm sure. Question is do you have a compressor that can keep up

[G-UNIT]

I believe standard spray guns use more pressure use then hvlp guns but their are alot of painters here that would chime in I'm sure.
also hvlp guns don't throw off as much over spray.

[Heaving Earth]

Depends on the model spraygun really, but at 43 psi, you're gonna need a fairly large tank to maintain that pressure for more than a couple of seconds at a time. Some guns will only need 15-18 psi to atomize nicely, but they're pricy.

[JimClark]

You can do a small boat with a airbrush. I have done my 1/10th hydro 36 in long and I think 17 wide with an airbrush but I wouldn't do it again on a boat that big

[Chrisg81983]

I painted for years for a profession and a hobby. I no longer do it as its just too much of a pain. A gravity fed hvlp gun is all you will need to do a boat. Definitely hang up whatever object you are painting. A psi of 30 to 50 is where you will probably want to be. Make passes of 6-8 inches overlapping your previous pass. One of the most important things is to have a dirt and dust free environment. Second set your psi while holding the guns trigger down and watching the gauge. This way you will have a psi setting that will not fall off as long as your compressor is up to the task. There are probably more experienced painters that can chime in as well, but good luck with the paint job. Keep us posted.

[Richie the shipwright]

Id go with a small automotive touch-up gun (trigger on the top like an airbrush) with a .8 or 1.2mm nozzle. You will need some practice, painting is a bit of an artform. Especially with 2k paints. Follow mixing instructions to the letter, and dont try to put too much paint on at once. Many light even coats with say 15 mins flashtime between coats is the way to go. Good luck mate, and good on ya for having a go. :-)

[electric]

Thanks for the help everyone. I will try and post the first pics of the boat today with it completely unprimed and after a great deal of body work on it(was wrecked once pretty badly). I am on the road next week so it will be quiet until I get back, next Thursday, but all the paint should be in by then so I should be painting next weekend.

This gun looked interesting. It shows a lower recommended spray pressure than the Harbor Freight gun which has good reviews.

http://www.tooltopia.com/atd-tools-6903.aspx?utm_source=pricegrabber&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=ATD6903&utm_campaign=pricegrabber_r1

[Richie the shipwright]

Perfect!! have fun! :-)

[Chrisg81983]

Very cool man like I stated earlier you're probably end up with the pressure between 30 and 50. recommend psi for any given gun is just a starting point. I used/owned many guns in excess of 500 usd. , & thwir recomended starting psi was way off. It also will go by how much you thin the paint. I would recommend sending it by 10 or 15 percent.@ richie dont you think spraying with a air brush is much much more involved especially for someone just getting into spraying ? Its not that ist harder but just way more time and steps. I noticed that beginner painters do not have the patients to sit there and airbrush. I like to see them get all their painting wows out with a simple setup.

[Heaving Earth]

Thanks for the help everyone. I will try and post the first pics of the boat today with it completely unprimed and after a great deal of body work on it(was wrecked once pretty badly). I am on the road next week so it will be quiet until I get back, next Thursday, but all the paint should be in by then so I should be painting next weekend.

This gun looked interesting. It shows a lower recommended spray pressure than the Harbor Freight gun which has good reviews.

http://www.tooltopia.com/atd-tools-6903.aspx?utm_source=pricegrabber&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=ATD6903&utm_campaign=pricegrabber_r1
yeah thats quite a bit lower than the other, go for it. nice cheap gun to get you goin

[Heaving Earth]

Very cool man like I stated earlier you're probably end up with the pressure between 30 and 50. recommend psi for any given gun is just a starting point. I used/owned many guns in excess of 500 usd. , & thwir recomended starting psi was way off. It also will go by how much you thin the paint. I would recommend sending it by 10 or 15 percent.@ richie dont you think spraying with a air brush is much much more involved especially for someone just getting into spraying ? Its not that ist harder but just way more time and steps. I noticed that beginner painters do not have the patients to sit there and airbrush. I like to see them get all their painting wows out with a simple setup.
i have to respectfully disagree with you here.
stay with the manufacturer recommendation psi for the gun. they dont tell you for fun. as for thinning, stick with the paint manufacturer recommendations. if youre playing around with these things, its because you arent applying it properly.
no offense chris, but you stated earlier that you quit painting cause its a pita, maybe theres a reason you struggled so much.
different guns require different psi from my iwata that requires 14-16 to a binks m-1 that calls for 20-25 to sata that can go anywhere from 20-40. ive seen plenty of guys pull the trigger and just decide out of nowhere that the recomended psi is too low or too high, then wonder why the paint isnt going on nice, or feels like sandpaper once its on. then the first thing they do is blame the paint….
i might add that im a certified ppg automotive refinisher. just my two cents

[Heaving Earth]

Please don't take what I say the wrong way, I don't mean to start anything here. I just have a very strong opinion based on my experience painting thousands of cars. I could also be wrong here too, as I have not used every gun ever made, just saying that from what I've seen, the manufacturer has always been dead on

[Richie the shipwright]

Chris dude....think you got your wires crossed somewhere... Wasnt me that suggested an airbrush. Have another read.... The touchup gun i suggested has the trigger on top of the gun...(LIKE AN AIRBRUSH). Electric.....Listen to heaving earth he is 100% on the money.

[electric]

Here are the starting pictures. Actually, the boat was purchase for 20 dollars and had stickers all over it and had cracked gelcoat from a pretty bad accident. I took off all of the stickers and sanded everything down. The nose is pretty 'off' and at one point the someone poured in quite a bit of epoxy in there. I tried to level out the nose a bit and took out all of the cracks. I also put two pieces of carbon fiber underneath to strengthen the upper deck since it was quite thin. This boat will be raced in a club class which requires you race 2s with a x440 prop and a Feigao 7l motor. In it's day this was a very competitive boat and was made in Australia. Good boat to practice my painting on.

I built a temporary paint booth from pvc pipe today also. Will takes some pics of that when I get it all ready to go next weekend.

[electric]

Progress Update..I have most of the paint in now and here is the painting plan per House of Kolor steps. A WHOLE lot of reading of spec sheets went on. I am going to layout the plans so others may comment and also have a few questions. Sorry for the details, just getting a summarized plan together.

1. KD 3002 Primer (plus Catalyst and Reducer)
Sand boat with 320 grit dry, wipe off with denatured alchol and then apply 2 to 3 coats of primer. Let dry for 24 hours.
Bought grey primer (kd 3000) first, but then realized they make a white primer and thought it would be better to get that since the bottom and parts of the top will be white. ($50.00 mistake, will use the grey on next boat)
Bought touch up Gun 1mm, but then read on the Tech sheet that they recommend 1.8mm, so I compromised and ordered a 1.5mm gun. Seems to be a consesus to paint with something between 1.4 and 1.8??
Bought the fastest drying reducer (65 - 70degrees)
2. Apply White Base Coat
Wet Sand primer coat 400 - 500 grit, clean with denatured alchol (Interesting to me that HOK tech sheets are okay with sanding dry or wet, different grits for each way though)
Paint is premixed for spray gun HOK paint, bought two 4oz bottles of it. (tcpglobal.com)
3. Apply Intercoat SG100 InterCoat
This goes on right after the White Base and is designed to allow taping with out pulling up paint
Wait 1 hour to dry and tape. (REALLY, this part un-nerves me. The spec sheet states you can tape after 1 hour and then go right to the second color...worried the paint will just pull up with the tape)
4. Tape off for second color
5. Apply second color (purple)
6. Remove Tape after purple is put down
7. Immedietly go to spray on Klear (UC35 Kosmic Klear)
This needs to be applied inside of 4 hours and I will do roughly 3 or 4 layers
8. Let Dry
9. Polish

First let me say, wow, this paint is expensive. I now understand what the material costs must be for a painter. I also was suprised at how once you start putting the base color down you pretty much don't stop until you are all the way through to the clear coat. No sanding in between so long as you stay within the time frames recommended.

I am going to start assembling my spray booth and will show pictures of that contraption. It involves air conditioner filters, fan, pvc and lots of plastic sheeting.

Again, if you see anything that concerns you please comment, I am learning as I go, and I am posting this to try and avoid making any major mistakes.

[Chrisg81983]

Interested in seeing the progress and spray booth that you made it sounds real cool thanks

[Heaving Earth]

Progress Update..I have most of the paint in now and here is the painting plan per House of Kolor steps. A WHOLE lot of reading of spec sheets went on. I am going to layout the plans so others may comment and also have a few questions. Sorry for the details, just getting a summarized plan together.

1. KD 3002 Primer (plus Catalyst and Reducer)
Sand boat with 320 grit dry, wipe off with denatured alchol and then apply 2 to 3 coats of primer. Let dry for 24 hours.
Bought grey primer (kd 3000) first, but then realized they make a white primer and thought it would be better to get that since the bottom and parts of the top will be white. ($50.00 mistake, will use the grey on next boat)
Bought touch up Gun 1mm, but then read on the Tech sheet that they recommend 1.8mm, so I compromised and ordered a 1.5mm gun. Seems to be a consesus to paint with something between 1.4 and 1.8??
Bought the fastest drying reducer (65 - 70degrees)
2. Apply White Base Coat
Wet Sand primer coat 400 - 500 grit, clean with denatured alchol (Interesting to me that HOK tech sheets are okay with sanding dry or wet, different grits for each way though)
Paint is premixed for spray gun HOK paint, bought two 4oz bottles of it. (tcpglobal.com)
3. Apply Intercoat SG100 InterCoat
This goes on right after the White Base and is designed to allow taping with out pulling up paint
Wait 1 hour to dry and tape. (REALLY, this part un-nerves me. The spec sheet states you can tape after 1 hour and then go right to the second color...worried the paint will just pull up with the tape)
4. Tape off for second color
5. Apply second color (purple)
6. Remove Tape after purple is put down
7. Immedietly go to spray on Klear (UC35 Kosmic Klear)
This needs to be applied inside of 4 hours and I will do roughly 3 or 4 layers
8. Let Dry
9. Polish

First let me say, wow, this paint is expensive. I now understand what the material costs must be for a painter. I also was suprised at how once you start putting the base color down you pretty much don't stop until you are all the way through to the clear coat. No sanding in between so long as you stay within the time frames recommended.

I am going to start assembling my spray booth and will show pictures of that contraption. It involves air conditioner filters, fan, pvc and lots of plastic sheeting.

Again, if you see anything that concerns you please comment, I am learning as I go, and I am posting this to try and avoid making any major mistakes.

Ok so a 1.5 is ok. Maybe a bit heavy so be careful on the base and clear, and prolly a little small for primer so do like 5 coats. 1.2 - 1.4 is best for base/ clear, 1.8 for primers.
Wet or dry sand is fine. I prefer dry cause you can just blow it off. Wet makes sludge that gets in every crack and is tougher to get out.dry dry dry for me.
Dont sand basecoat. Sand primer then just go. Sanding basecoat is only when you've made a mistake.
I assume the intercoat is a clear basecoat, so if something does peel, it's not color coat. Not familiar with house of colors, just guessing based on what ppg and others do it that way.
Use vinyl tape to get cleanest edges.
Hour dry time is fine. If you're uncomfortable with that add some heat to make sure paint is dry.
Yes once you start it's best to just keep going.
Good luck man

[electric]

Ok so a 1.5 is ok. Maybe a bit heavy so be careful on the base and clear, and prolly a little small for primer so do like 5 coats. 1.2 - 1.4 is best for base/ clear, 1.8 for primers.
I could use the touch up gun which is a 1.0mm for the clear and base if you think that is a better way to go than using the 1.5 gun? I might be willing to buy yet another gun (1.2mm - 1.4mm) if you think it is worth the money to go ahead and get it right.
Wet or dry sand is fine. I prefer dry cause you can just blow it off. Wet makes sludge that gets in every crack and is tougher to get out.dry dry dry for me. Then I will go with dry, I prefer that as well.
Dont sand basecoat. Sand primer then just go. Sanding basecoat is only when you've made a mistake.
I assume the intercoat is a clear basecoat, so if something does peel, it's not color coat.You are correct, it is like clear coat that has a matt finish that is designed to prevent pulling up the color base coat when doing artwork. Thanks for pointing out that if it does pull up it will just be the clear coat, thus protecting the base color. Makes sense and makes me feel better about the process. Not familiar with house of colors, just guessing based on what ppg and others do it that way.
Use vinyl tape to get cleanest edges.
Hour dry time is fine. If you're uncomfortable with that add some heat to make sure paint is dry.
Yes once you start it's best to just keep going.
Good luck man Really, that is all I have is luck? Chuckle. This is why I picked a small cheap boat so that I am not too crushed if it does not go well and it gives me a good learning platform. I am starting a build on a "big" Q hydro next week and that's the one where I want a "perfect" gloss paint job on.xxx

[Heaving Earth]

haha im sure youll do fine. its a learning curve for sure.
the 1.5 may do just fine. generally a 1.4 is the most common for base/clearcoats, but there are those 1.3 and 1.2 out there. the difference is gonna be the how large or small the atomized droplets are. smaller tip is gonna give smaller peel. larger tip is gonna give heavy peel. give your gun a try on a test piece and see if you like it. i always grab a panel of something to test new guns before i just start spraying.

[electric]

Getting closer to painting time. I hope to get the primer on tomorrow(Thursday) and then paint the boat on Monday when I am back in town. Here are some pics of the paint booth. Amazing what you can build with pvc pipe, duct tape, and plastic. I have a filter up top for inbound air and then a fan with a filter on it to pull the air out on the bottom. My hope is that the filter on the outflow air will keep most all of the paint confined within the paint area. Really has a good flow to it. I think even a lower setting on the fan will be fine. The paper on the floor I got at home depot for $10.00. The fan was like $17. I would guess maybe $50 for the whole thing. The nice thing is I can break it down (did not glue the pipe) and then re-use it as needed with the only cost being some new plastic and a roll of tape.

Oh and one pic of the next project, a gp400 "Q" hydro arrived today.

[electric]

few more pics..

[egneg]

Wow is all I can say!
The 1.5 is not ideal for the primer but can be used if you know how to set up the gun properly. The 1.0 detail gun is good for BC/CC only. You need to practice on sign blanks or some other suitable hard surface long before you try painting the boat. You need to do your research and know how to handle problems (and you will have problems), this is what separates the beginners from the pros. The number one problem when painting is lack of proper preparation. If this isn’t right nothing can save the paint job. The paint guns need to be setup right and have the proper cigar shape pattern or you will have garbage as well. House of Kolor (HOK) is very good and the intercoat can save you from starting over. The CC is the hardest to get right as it’s really a 3 part system so pay close attention when measuring out the different parts. The reducer you have is very hot (should have gotten the medium) and is not forgiving if you get it wrong. The most important thing is preparation!!! Most all problems are due to improper preparation.
The airbrush is fine for artwork but should NOT be used for general painting.
The paint you selected is about the best there is but good quality painting is an art form and takes time to master. There are forums dedicated to this subject as I belong to a few and have been painting for many years.
Good luck – you will need it.

[electric]

Wow? As in a good thing right? I hope. Chuckle. Well, like I said this boat is a "test" boat (twenty dollar boat) so it will make a good learning boat. Thanks for the advice. I do plan to work with the gun on some scrap surfaces a bit to get comfortable with it. I may break down and buy a 1.8mm gun on my drive home as you are the second person that has told me a 1.5mm will work, but is pushing it. I do realize that there is a huge learning curve and a lot of information to digest. I am trying to read as much as I can and look at youtube video's to eliminate issues as much as possible, but I guess at some point you just learn by doing. The reducer seemed right only because of the cooler tempertures, but I will note that the medium is better to use. Do you think the 1.0mm gun will work better for the BC/CC coats than the 1.5mm? I appear to be very adept at buying the wrong paint guns. I know that Harbor Freight has a two gun package on sale(have the coupon with me) for 44.99 that has , 1.4mm, 1.8mm that has good reviews.
http://www.harborfreight.com/professional-automotive-hvlp-spray-gun-kit-94572.html

[egneg]

What you have will work - no need to buy more stuff except for a good respirator (a must for the primer and CC).

[electric]

What you have will work - no need to buy more stuff except for a good respirator (a must for the primer and CC).
OK. Yes, I do have a (3M) high quality respirator(the kind with two filters and full mask).

[electric]

Well, I sprayed the primer. Overall it went very well. I did break down and buy the 1.8mm gun and I am glad I did because I think it layed down better with that. I was painting at about 35lbs of pressure and it seemed to go well. There are some runs where I tried to lay it on to thick to cover my bondo work rather than being patient and waiting for the next coat to do it, but no big deal because of course I can sand it out. A few problem areas showed up as well which will need a little bit of work, but pretty happy with it.

Let's talk about the stink. Wow. My really good mask must work because I was not aware of the smell level until I got done and pulled the mask off and the smell will knock you down. I quickly dug up some fans and have them going full blast to air out the garage. Luckily I had about a one hour lead time before my wife got home to lower the level of smell.

[Heaving Earth]

You really shouldnt be spraying in the house buddy. It's Gonna smell bigtime.

[electric]

You really shouldnt be spraying in the house buddy. It's Gonna smell bigtime.

No kidding, now you tell me about the smell. Chuckle. Luckily, I have one more session on Monday to put on the color and the clear and then I am done painting until I get the next boat built which will be awhile. I had heard you can rent paint booths to do your painting if you look around. Might consider that next time.

[electric]

Also, I noticed some overspray on the primer and I am thinking now about the base coat. When I put down the base and the second color I would expect some slightly rough spots from the overspray right? I would guess I lightly sand those before I put down the clear coat??

By the way, the paint booth worked great and contained all the paint and filtered the air. I think once I throw away the filters and all the plastic when I am done that should pretty much help clear out the smell. I just checked the smell and it is not too bad now at all.

You guys were right about preparation. Once you mix up the paint(three different ingredients with some measuring) and filter the paint etc. There is quite a bit going on and it all needs to happen without having to hunt or look for items. I can tell that everything will need to be thought out before doing the two colors and clear.

[Heaving Earth]

No you should not sand basecoat! The clear is a magnifying glass... It will show every sand scratch you put in. Generally primer will get dry edges because of its chemical makeup just does that. The basecoat will go on smooth if you're doing it right. Mostly I use med or high temp reducer always. The reducer you have is too fast IMO and will dry rather quickly. Slower reducers allow paint to flow our more.

[Heaving Earth]

You'll notice when you mix the basecoat, it is quite a bit thinner than the primer

[Heaving Earth]

What gun are you using?

[electric]

What gun are you using?

At this point ,whatever you suggest since I have everything. I can do 1.0mm touch up gun, 1.4mm, 1.5mm or 1.8mm.

[Heaving Earth]

What brand and model tho? Does it call for 35 psi?

[Heaving Earth]

One thing you can do is set the trigger so it delivers less fluid. Wide open delivers alot of paint

[electric]

This one I have paints at only 29psi
http://www.tooltopia.com/atd-tools-6903.aspx?utm_source=pricegrabber&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=ATD6903&utm_campaign=pricegrabber_r1


The other two are the Harbor Freight guns and they paint at 25 to 30 for the small gun and 30 - 35 for the big one. I used the bigger one today with a 1.8mm needle, but you can put back in the 1.4mm it comes with.
http://www.harborfreight.com/professional-automotive-hvlp-spray-gun-kit-94572.html

[egneg]

When you mix the CC give it a few minutes to kick off before you paint.

Here is a helmet I did a while back.

92210

[Richie the shipwright]

Ha ha ha..... Id be a deadman!! I spray in my backyard shed while the missus is at work, and she still grumbles about the smell.... Then theres the neighbours!!! :-)

[electric]

When you mix the CC give it a few minutes to kick off before you paint.

Here is a helmet I did a while back.

92210
Nice work!

[egneg]

Nice work!

Thanks.

[electric]

Well, I just took a break from this mornings round. Sanded the primer and imperfections out. I applied the white paint and then applied the intercoat clear. I will wait an hour and then go back and take some pictures of it at that stage. Next I need to tape off for my second paint color which will be purple and then straight to the final clear. Should be done for good or bad in about 3 hours.

As close as I can tell the white went down really well. Smooth to the eye and nice shine on it for not having the clear on yet. I put about 4 coats on it. It did dull up a bit when I put the intercoat on but that is supposed to happen. The white was not a problem, but the intercoat was thinner I guess and tended to create a bit more dust flying about. I turned up the fan a bit and that helped.

I did see a few pin holes from my bodywork where I could have sanded and filled better, but that will be remembered when I do the next boat.

After some testing, I decided to use the touch up gun 1.0mm to put down the white and intercoat. My thought was I wanted to give myself room for error and get a finer coat down to try and avoid runs and the gun seems to lay out a nice pattern. This gun also is smaller and the spray pattern seems to work well for the size of the boat (small).

This is certainly adding weight to the boat as now I have about 3 or 4 coats of primer(sanded a fair amount off), 4 coats white, 2 coats interclear. Next to come is 2 coats of purple and then 3 coats of clear.

A bit more involved than a spray can!

[electric]

92324923259232692327

Yes, to anyone else it is just a white boat, but after this much effort it feels like much more. Chuckle. Here it is before I have taped and applied the purple coat. I got a pretty good shine on it with just the base coat no clear yet. It should be dry by now and ready to tape, but still feels a little tacky. The room is a little cool, so I have turned on the heater and will just leave it alone for one more hour to give it time before I tape.

[Heaving Earth]

The basecoat will have a satin sheen to it. It really doesn't matter tho... After clear it will be super shiny. You could put flat paint on there and still get the same result after clear. Looking good

[egneg]

Looking very good so far.

[electric]

Well, I ran into some problems. The inter-coat is supposed to dry in 30 minutes to 1 hour. After about 1.5 hours it was (hard to describe, not really tacky, but not dry either). It kinda had almost a greasy feel? I tried to tape it off and the tape had trouble sticking and a few other mishaps occurred(don't use newspaper for tape off) that flawed the white paint a little. I waited another 2 hours, came back to it and it was no better.

So, I went to plan "B" since it is my b-day and my family would like to see me some time today. I put two more coats of white on it and went to the clear coat and called it done. It's going to be shiny white boat. I figured better to cut my loses at this point than risk the entire boat and a late night in the garage when I should be with my family.

A few things I learned so far:
1. I need better light when in there painting. Would help.
2. Next boat I am going to keep to a solid color rather than two colors. Pinstripe and go to clear. Once I get a single color good, I will go for the second color taping process. This second color adds a lot more complexity (Inter coat now needed, taping off, extra time and risk of damaging the first color).
3. Don't use newspaper to cover you boat when painting. I have done this in past with no problems, but to risky with the fresh paint. Seems pretty obvious now.
4. Find out what went wrong with the Intercoat? The only thing I can think of here is that possibly the white paint I bought used some slower drying reducer since it was purchased pre-mixed and ready to paint. Maybe that caused a problem?

Pretty happy with the outcome on the paint job overall though. The clear went on good and I am getting a 4" polisher for my b-day so I will put it to use and see what that does. I will share some pics, but it might be later this week because I have to leave early in the morning for a business trip. Would I do it again? You bet. I enjoyed doing it and will give it another try when I get the next boat built. I would like to try some airbrushing as well.

More pics to come later.

[Heaving Earth]

Dude, here's what you do, sand the clear and tape off for other color. Then paint and reclear

[electric]

Dude, here's what you do, sand the clear and tape off for other color. Then paint and reclear

I was pondering that. So what grit paper do you recommend to sand the clear? I think I may do that when I get back and the end of this week should go pretty quick to put the purple on and then re-clear.

[Heaving Earth]

800 grit

[Cooper]

Nice thread, I use rattle cans and airbrush the details. Found some useful knowledge on guns. And the idea of having a "clean" room, I paint in the garage and always battle dust. Might make up something similar for clean dust free air. :)

[Richie the shipwright]

You now know why great painters charge like they do. The quotes they give for faultless 2k paintjobs and airbrush art dont seem so big once youve had a go yourself hey?. Theres obviously the material cost, cost of running a booth/compressor/heater/lights...... Then theres their experience and skill. Great advice gentlemen!! I tip my hat to anyone who paints well. Its never a bad paintjob if you learned something from it i say. You certainly seem to have learned heaps from this experience. Well done man! :-)

[electric]

Thanks for the positive comments guys and the help. I took time to show this process and take pictures for two reasons. One was to get help from people on this forum who know what they are doing. Secondly, to document the good and the bad as I went so that the next person who tries this has some information on good practice as well as what NOT to do. Ok, I have an update.

I got home for the West Coat this afternoon and decided if I wanted to put the purple down tonight was the only time I was going to have to do it this weekend. So, I sanded it with some mild sand paper 1000 grit and worked off a rather astonishing amount of orange peel which I now fully understand what that is. I will also note that the dust comes off really easy and could be knocked off with a much higher grit if needed. I got the dust when I pulled the boat out with the still sticky intercoat last week and really fouled that up.

Well here are pics. The purple went on beautifully and then I went straight to the clear and that appears to have gone very well to. I decided to leave a nice white area where the tape goes on the hatch so I don't rip up the purple and go into depression. I tried some pin striping and discovered I need some practice and to do some research on how to get a nice straight line. Not thrilled with that, but all in all very happy at how shiny my 20 dollar boat is now. If you look close you can see me in the reflection.

The next step I am going to do after the paint dries for a week or so is hit with some really high grit sandpaper(for dust if there is any) and then try out a new 3" Griott's garage electric polisher I got to see how that works. My theory(someone can correct me) is that if you are an average painter you can compensate with a bit of wet sand paper and a really nice polish to get that high gloss shine?

Long day, but happy with the outcome.

[Heaving Earth]

Looks good man.

[electric]

more pics. See that tiny spec of dust on the third picture...arghhh!! I hate dust. chuckle...

[electric]

I have a question. I was on the west coast and it turns out one of the guys that works with me over there is a gear head and had raced dragsters and also done remote control gas boats, builds furniture..etc... Anyway I was discussing the finer points of painting and he asked me if I was painting with a water based paint or an acrylic. I told him I was using HOK paint. He agreed that was great paint, but suggested I try out the water based paints. What is the thought on those types of paints and who makes the best of that??

[electric]

Looks good man.
Thanks. Glad I talked myself(your suggestion) into not stopping and putting the purple down. HOK sure has some beautiful colors and it just looked really nice going down.

By the way. For others who may try this. I used 8ozs of white and just 4ozs of purple on this small boat. A little paint goes a long way when you are also doing primer and clear.

[egneg]

Solvent based paint is easier to use and gives a much nicer finish than water based paint. Be careful with the polisher - the last thing you want to do is burn through the CC.

[electric]

Pulled the boat off the hangers this morning. WOW. Really pleased with the shine and basically no dust. I really don't need to do much of anything more on it at this point. Best paint job I have ever done, but I know I could do better next time!

[Heaving Earth]

Solvent based paint is easier to use and gives a much nicer finish than water based paint. Be careful with the polisher - the last thing you want to do is burn through the CC.

I disagree. Water based are much easier to use.
If you have trouble with it, it is because you aren't using it properly. Most old timers refuse to like it cause they're set in their ways.
Electric, I am certified by ppg in solvent and waterborne systems if you have any questions.
I would never go back to solvent

[Heaving Earth]

Ppg enviro base is the best stuff btw. It's a true waterborne, where other companies are calling their stuff waterborne, by starting with enamel resin and adding all kinds of chemicals to make it thinable with water. Ppg starts with latex resin.
You can always tell by the can the paint comes in. True waterborne comes in plastic container. False waterborne comes in metal.
DuPont comes to mind when I think of fake waterborne. Terrible stuff

[Heaving Earth]

One last thing about waterborne is this, most people who will say bad things about it have either not really sprayed much of it, or they've sprayed the really crappy stuff.
I have sprayed thousands of cars with it and love it.
It def will not smell like those solvents do. It is no voc

[Heaving Earth]

heres a restoration i did, yes this is waterbourne basecoat. who can tell me this looks any better or worse than solvent? noone
926379263892639

[egneg]

One last thing about waterborne is this, most people who will say bad things about it have either not really sprayed much of it, or they've sprayed the really crappy stuff.
I have sprayed thousands of cars with it and love it.
It def will not smell like those solvents do. It is no voc

Maybe things have changed over the years. I tried some of them when they first came out including PPG's envirobase, auto air, etc and was not happy with the results. I have airbrushed with many water based paints on various surfaces but prefer the solvent based paint.

[Heaving Earth]

im sure things have changed, but you really shouldnt be critisizing something you havent much experience using. youre gonna give people false perceptions of things....
most people cant get past how the basecoat looks when they first put it on. they expect it to look like solvent does when you apply it, so they just keep spraying it trying to get the solvent look instead of just waiting for it to flash, then wonder why it isnt coming ouit right.

[electric]

Sounds like I have stumble onto a controversial topic. I like the idea of a low VOC paint and I am assuming the clean up is much easier as well. Might give it a try on my next boat.

[Heaving Earth]

Well, I am strongly opinionated based on the amount I have used the stuff. 4 years now 3-4 cars per day. That's ALOT of cars with the stuff.
The reality is, a good paint job is gonna look good no matter what you use. Hok is no better looking than a well done waterborne job. Visa versa, hok will look crappy if it's not done well. In the end application is the most important part and can determine how the job looks.
I will say that with a little practice waterborne is much easier, lower voc, easy cleanup. It just makes more sense.

[egneg]

Sounds like I have stumble onto a controversial topic. I like the idea of a low VOC paint and I am assuming the clean up is much easier as well. Might give it a try on my next boat.

Best of luck to you ... I still say solvent based paints are better. :Peace_Sign:

[Clueless1]

Jim,

Very nicely done! Thanks to all for sharing...great information!:thumbup:

[Cooper]

I have a question, if I prime and use a base coat of waterborne paint can I clear it with spraymax 2k clear coat?

[Heaving Earth]

The only way to be sure is to test on a piece of scrap. Mixing paints can go wrong from time to time. Should be ok, but never know. Spraycan clears contain ALOT of reducers which can cause trouble

[Cooper]

Would it be a good idea to let the base completely dry say a day or two before clearing?

[Heaving Earth]

Not necessarily. Paints have certain windows in which you should recoat. Generally I try to clear soon after the basecoat flashes off. You should read what the recommendations are on the paint

[Cooper]

Have a hull to paint before long and this thread has given me lots of information. I will be asking on my build thread MADD CATT about What to use for primer, base ,and I have the clear. It's about a month before I tackle the paint. I've just used rattle cans before but would like to try something new. I like the waterborne paints for airbrushing. I can keep up with the cleaning and multiple color choices easier but I like the effects of the 2k clear coat I've used before. No pealing from hatch tape, no cracks, it just seems to hold up well for me. So again thanks guys. I just don't know it all yet,,,,,,,,lol,,

[brobinson]

Wow Great Job

BR

[electric]

Have a hull to paint before long and this thread has given me lots of information. I will be asking on my build thread MADD CATT about What to use for primer, base ,and I have the clear. It's about a month before I tackle the paint. I've just used rattle cans before but would like to try something new. I like the waterborne paints for airbrushing. I can keep up with the cleaning and multiple color choices easier but I like the effects of the 2k clear coat I've used before. No pealing from hatch tape, no cracks, it just seems to hold up well for me. So again thanks guys. I just don't know it all yet,,,,,,,,lol,,

Cooper, good luck with your paint job. Having some airbrushing experience will help out I am sure. If you want to start a new thread then fine, but you could just start a new one here where mine ended and then everything you do and learn will be in the same thread for others to read. Either way is your choice of course, just thought I would throw that out there. Good Luck!

[egneg]

Would it be a good idea to let the base completely dry say a day or two before clearing?

You can but then you will have to sand the base coat to give you a physical bond as the time has passed for a chemical bond.

[Heaving Earth]

You can but then you will have to sand the base coat to give you a physical bond as the time has passed for a chemical bond.

Egneg is right on here. Of course sanding basecoat is a bad idea, especially if it's metallic.

[Cooper]

Thanks, I don't have much knowledge with the actual paints, most of my experience is with airbrushing waterborne colors to canvas. Never had to worry about flash time ect. So I'm learning that this is one of those times it really pays off to read directions. I did base a boat with a silver paint and when I applied clear it ran and ate through base. ( past experience of not testing and waiting the proper amount of time. ). So thanks and when time to paint comes around I will post up here of what I plan to do before I do it so y'all can catch any problems if I'm not doing something right.

[electric]

Project 2 Starting. I am starting to paint a ML-boatworks GP400 I have built. I will post some pictures later today. Right now I have the first coat of (KD3002)primer on and have just finished block sanding and filling a few spots. I will be putting on the second layer of primer tonight. I will be including the paint colors and pictures as I go.

I am planning a two color paint job this time around. My first question is particular to the House of Kolor paints. I am probably overly concerned about the adhesion of the clear coat(don't want the tape destroying the paint job). My plan is to put the primary color down first (orange metallic), then apply the (S2-SG100) Intercoat and the put down the accent color(blue or purple). The timing would be to put down the base coast and then immedietly go to the SG100 intercoat for the entire boat (front and back) even though the 2nd color will only go on the top of the boat. The next evening after work I would tape off the area for the second color and complete that. Then pull that out of the booth and take off the masking and immediatly go to the clear coat (UC35). Will that be ok? Is that too much time between the (base/intercoat) before I apply the second color and the clear? Should I lightly sand the intercoat before putting on the second color or just go to painting the second color and clear? The directions indicate it is possible to do this with that big a time gap without sanding, but it sounds like kinda on the edge of it.

When you do a design on a boat, do you typically draw it off on the boat itself with some type of marker or pencil and then use that line to do the tape work? I can't see just freehanding it? Just a highlevel description of the process would be helpful.

My last question is for a different boat. I plan to just add some color on the top of a boat(fiberglass). Is the best process to just tape off and rough up the top of the boat and only apply the color and clear coat to the top of the boat only OR rough up the entire boat and clear top and bottom?

I will be busy painting over the next few days so I will share the pictures as they come on both boats.

[Heaving Earth]

Why not just clear after first color.
Taping is done freehand usually

[detox]

Rough orange peel and runs are the hardest thing to avoid when spraying. Some colors will show these flaws worse than others. White is verygood at hiding flaws and black probably the worse. I use single stage urethane that has been thinned more than instructions recommend. No booth is needed, just spray on a clear calm day and use correct thinner for that temp. Let paint shrink couple of days then repair by sanding any bad spots and polishing. Practice

You will also need clean dry air to prevent water in paint. I use those throw away air line driers along with another water dryer upline near tank.

Good paint is expensive.

I have never sprayed a good clear paint over cheap base paint, but it may bond and last. If you scuff before painting

[Cooper]

Are u guys saying that I will not be able to paint different colors/ layers in the course of several days? My question is after reading the above about too much time passing for the paint to chemically bond, or is that just pertaining to clear coat? As I'm air brushing logos and artwork onto hull and I just don't see being able to do everything at one shot. Or is that what an intercoar is for ??
In the past I have painted, let sit for days, painted again, let sit and later cleared and had no problems. But I am learning alot about painting and paints and doing higher end paint jobs so following directions is in the plans now. Just doing work for myself, compared to past stuff of just one color to now designs and multiple colors, art, logos, it's my higher end of painting.

[electric]

Are u guys saying that I will not be able to paint different colors/ layers in the course of several days? My question is after reading the above about too much time passing for the paint to chemically bond, or is that just pertaining to clear coat? As I'm air brushing logos and artwork onto hull and I just don't see being able to do everything at one shot. Or is that what an intercoar is for ??
In the past I have painted, let sit for days, painted again, let sit and later cleared and had no problems. But I am learning alot about painting and paints and doing higher end paint jobs so following directions is in the plans now. Just doing work for myself, compared to past stuff of just one color to now designs and multiple colors, art, logos, it's my higher end of painting.

Here is what I know(very little, but I have been reading like crazy) for HOK paint they say primer, sand, put down your base color, then put down an intercoat clear. Then if you do your artwork(or second color) within 4 hours you can go directly to clear and it chemically bonds. They do note that they have gone as long as 24 hours to put on the second color and then cleared and it went ok. Someone else told me after that "window" you should scuff the intercoat up with some mild sandpaper and then do the artwork and go to clear. First type of bond is chemical bond and second is physical. The intercoat clear from HOK is specifically designed to allow you to put artwork down and not risk pulling the paint up when lifting the tape and also prevent "depressions" in the paint from the tape job. THAT IS WHAT I READ and I am a rookie so take this all with a grain of salt. I might also point out this is for House of Kolor paint. Each paint company has their own technical datasheet on how their paint works which may be very different from what I am saying about HOK.

[electric]

Why not just clear after first color.
Taping is done freehand usually

I was afraid you would say that (freehand) chuckle. Ok so if I am painting a windshield on a boat for example, do you just feehand it with the tape until you get something that looks symetrical? I am going to do a pattern on the sponsons so I thought I would make at least a paper template. I guess I could do that and use that as a guide as I do the taping work on the hull to guide me into a fairly symetrical look on both sponsons?

Actually, just clear would probably work fine as I did that on my first boat and it went ok. The intercoat clear dries to a dull finish so I guess it make for slightly better adhesion for the clear?

[electric]

Here is the some of the data sheet on the Intercoat Clear and how it is used:

S2-SG100 Intercoat is an important tool for the custom painter. It is designed to be applied over a given base color, prior to taped art work or air brush art. This allows for easy removal of mis-tapes or air brush errors without damage to base color.

APPLICATION
Apply 1 to 2 medium coats of Shimrin2® S2-SG100 Intercoat with a 50% pattern overlap. Allow each coat to flash dull (Typically 5 to 15 minutes) between coats. Additional coats may be applied if build is required to fill tape-out lines. We suggest you allow the Intercoat to flash 30-60 minutes before doing tape outs, etc over the S2-SG100 product.
FINISH SANDING
Typically, S2-SG100 does not require sanding or scuffing as long as it hasn’t sat more than 4 hours prior to top coating. In the event it will have to sit beyond 4 hours such as when performing artwork, it should be sanded. The S2-SG100 can be sanded after 1 hour dry time. Recommended grit is 500 wet or dry. You can also use a gray scuff pad..
SHIMRIN2®
S2-SG100 INTERCOAT

See how it allows a window for the second color/artwork to be applied and then straight to clear with no sanding? I guess it really is not big deal if you go long on the time, just sand it and paint.

[Cooper]

I'm going to be using waterborne paint. I'm looking into time on repainting. I think with waterborne paint I don't have to worry about waiting too long to paint another color. Anyone know that for sure?

[JimClark]

It really depends on the manufacturer you better read your directions before starting

[Heaving Earth]

I agree with Jim, while there are some general guidelines to painting, you really need to follow manufacturer recommendations.

[electric]

Long day of painting. Finishing Primer, sanding, orange paint, inter coat clear, tape off, purple paint, tape off, black paint, clear paint. I will put how the day went tomorrow, just decided to post a few pics. When I get it in the sun light you will really see how it looks The orange metallic is really bright nice. Still may pinstripe it to give it some more pop.

Yep that table will still look like this picture in the morning. I was very neat up to the last few colors and the clear..chuckle..

The two things I enjoy most in the process is when you put that first layer of base coat down and see how nice the paint color looks. The second is when you finally get to the point to shoot the clear coat.

[brobinson]

Looking great

[electric]

Thanks Bill. So now that I had a nights sleep I will comment on yesterday's painting. Sorry for not taking many pictures, but once you start going with the paint there is very little time that you are not busy cleaning and mixing the next round of paint. I did have one thing go wrong yesterday, I painted the hatch with the base color (Orange) and then put in the clear Intercoat. At this point I had to tape off everything to apply the purple color. After putting down the purple and then the black I had to remove all the tape to put the clear down. As I did this there was one spot on the hatch where the clear came up (about the size of a nickle). The orange was still there, but very distorted(metal flakes bunched up). I sanded lightly with 1000 grit to smooth it and after some thought, I just touched it up the best I could with the orange paint and a small painters brush and went to the clear. Had that not happened it would have been a "perfect" job.

My question is why did that happen and is it common? I was using that blue 3m painters tape for the big areas where I needed to attach sheets of paper to mask everthing off. Wrong tape? The pinstriping tape I used to mark my edges off worked fine. I did have some others areas where the "shine" came up, but those just took a light scuff of 1000 grit and with the clear coat it all looks good.

The other thing of interest is my filters quit working toward the later part of the evening including my flaw. They became clogged later in the evening with all the painting I was doing. Not a terrible problem, but next time I will have some extra filters handy.

The other thing I will do different next time is set it up where I can paint with my larger spray guns, but easily switch to the airbrushes (different size fittings) to do the detail work as it was way overkill on the guns to put down the black and purple since I could not use the airbrushes easily.

I tried Mineral Spirits to clean the guns. Don't bother. Luckily, I still had some Acetone and that is the chemical to have. Also, wear GLOVES. Those cheap rubber surgical gloves make clean up one thousand percent easier.

The last think I learned is start early as you are in for a full day of painting. I did not start until noon. I worked pretty solid until around 6pm (my son had a school play) picked back up at about 8pm and then finshed around 9:30pm. Whould have been better if I had started fresh at 8am with this and been done earlier in the day.

That all said, I will get the boat off the hangers and take some more shots in the daylight later on to wrap this project up. That may be awhile as I am going to be traveling a lot over the next few weeks.

[Clueless1]

very,very nice!:thumbup1:

Now clean up that mess!:biggrin:

[electric]

Had a moment to take a few pics before I headed out the door... The clear really puts an unbelievale shine on the paint job. Notice the level of the reflection off the boat in a shaded area and cloudy day. The orange is really much more "Orange" than the picture shows and the metallic in the purple and orange has a shimer to it. Maybe one last pic will be posted in the sun with the my Namba numbers on the sponsons etc. i read once that when you paint something take lots of pictures that first few days, because it will never look better than at that point in time!

[Richie the shipwright]

Looks tough!! nice colours.
You can buy little prefilters for some resperators. These go on over the top of your main filters, and are cheap enough to replace before each use.

[Cooper]

Thanks Bill. So now that I had a nights sleep I will comment on yesterday's painting. Sorry for not taking many pictures, but once you start going with the paint there is very little time that you are not busy cleaning and mixing the next round of paint. I did have one thing go wrong yesterday, I painted the hatch with the base color (Orange) and then put in the clear Intercoat. At this point I had to tape off everything to apply the purple color. After putting down the purple and then the black I had to remove all the tape to put the clear down. As I did this there was one spot on the hatch where the clear came up (about the size of a nickle). The orange was still there, but very distorted(metal flakes bunched up). I sanded lightly with 1000 grit to smooth it and after some thought, I just touched it up the best I could with the orange paint and a small painters brush and went to the clear. Had that not happened it would have been a "perfect" job.

My question is why did that happen and is it common? I was using that blue 3m painters tape for the big areas where I needed to attach sheets of paper to mask everthing off. Wrong tape? The pinstriping tape I used to mark my edges off worked fine. I did have some others areas where the "shine" came up, but those just took a light scuff of 1000 grit and with the clear coat it all looks good.

The other thing of interest is my filters quit working toward the later part of the evening including my flaw. They became clogged later in the evening with all the painting I was doing. Not a terrible problem, but next time I will have some extra filters handy.

The other thing I will do different next time is set it up where I can paint with my larger spray guns, but easily switch to the airbrushes (different size fittings) to do the detail work as it was way overkill on the guns to put down the black and purple since I could not use the airbrushes easily.

I tried Mineral Spirits to clean the guns. Don't bother. Luckily, I still had some Acetone and that is the chemical to have. Also, wear GLOVES. Those cheap rubber surgical gloves make clean up one thousand percent easier.

The last think I learned is start early as you are in for a full day of painting. I did not start until noon. I worked pretty solid until around 6pm (my son had a school play) picked back up at about 8pm and then finshed around 9:30pm. Whould have been better if I had started fresh at 8am with this and been done earlier in the day.

That all said, I will get the boat off the hangers and take some more shots in the daylight later on to wrap this project up. That may be awhile as I am going to be traveling a lot over the next few weeks.

Hey great job! Again, thanks for the thread! Used your trial and error to steepen my learning curve! I need to learn to be less old school (just do it and figure it out as you go) and become more new school (read and follow directions). As this has helped me, so thanks!!!!

[electric]

Looks tough!! nice colours.
You can buy little prefilters for some resperators. These go on over the top of your main filters, and are cheap enough to replace before each use.

Should have been more specific about the filters. I meant the Air conditioner filters I use for the intake and outake in my temp. paint room. The outbound filter got a layer of paint on it that reduced the airflow tremendously towards the end. Thanks for the info. on the resperators though because I was going to ask how long it takes before these should be replaced. Do paint guys use repirators a long time before they replace the filters or do they replace them all of the time??

[Chrisg81983]

Looks real good man .....really nice work.

[electric]

Looks real good man .....really nice work.

Thanks!

[Heaving Earth]

The paint mask should be stored in the plastic bag it came in, why? Because the main filters are charcoal, and as soon as you expose it to oxygen the charcoal is active, so after use it should be put in bag and sealed off to stop charcoal activity. When to replace? When you can smell the paint.
As for your clear intercoat problem, could be the time frames between painting or the tape used. Without being there to see what you're doing it's hard to pinpoint.