neu 1515 2200kv and castle creations 2200kv performance differences

[Gen]

guys do u think or better still know from testing is there much difference between castle creations 2200 kv and a neu 1515 1Y 2200 kv

why ive been running a FE30 for more than a year or so now and have done lots of testing with many props ect but was thinkin about a better motor right now i cant break
100km hr 62 mph ,

now i do know tony (propper chopper )

""""" TUNE IN TONY GIVE ME SOME ADVICE """""has his you tube vid with setup same as mine he runs FE30 ,4s 4000mah 45c nano in parallell ,M445 , 7/8 strut height slightly pos angle neu 1515 1Y does (110kms) 68.1 mph run


i run everything exactly the same but a castle 2200kv with 9 deg timing (pretty moderate) my best run on glass water (96kms) 59.6 mph

and would you expect its motor timing ? or the motors power ?
also with a neu would it have better efficiency and better run time just want to know before i spend another $210 for a motor

thanks Guys GEN .

[SirBudman32]

I have a CC 1515 2200 that I had in a Genesis, ran it at 15 deg. timing. anything lower it did not like.

[Heaving Earth]

timing change wont give you 10 mph. altho 15 is right for it. maybe tony has modified his prop a bit? ive noticed my boats are actually faster on a small amount of ripple in the water

[Gen]

Yeah but the question is are they very differnt motors or very similar? and would u think i nue would run cooler thus allowing me to advance the timing more

[SirBudman32]

with the right timing the motor will run cooler. A y wind motor needs the timing.

[Gen]

So u think i shpild run 15 degree timing? and my motor may actually run cooler? ?

What about run time will it decrease dramatically with 15 degree timing or will it only decrease a bit. .

[SirBudman32]

As for timing yes. In the hot summer days mine ran 95 deg. And no problem with 4-5 min. runs.

[Gen]

Is that 95 celcius or f 95 celcius is very hot .95 farenhiut is very cold? ??

Im gonna change my timing but am confused on your temps

[SirBudman32]

95 degs. F.

[Gen]

Thnx mr sir buddy for all the info. Its sunny here in auatralia so ill do a run tommorow let u know how i go. .

[properchopper]

Gen,

I wish I could come up with an explanation. Mr. Heaving Earth is correct in stating that a change in motor timing won't yield that large a top speed increase. IIRC Fluid bumped the timing on a SAW boat he was running and picked up a few mph (but SAW runs often are so short that temp increases are artifactual and may not provide sufficient data to generalize to longer runtimes).

Yes, the m445 I ran was tweaked up some but now I run a stock M545 for heat racing because it holds it's speed better in the turns.

I have no meaningfull empirical data to use to compare the CC motor to the Neu BUT in a curious coincidence, this morning is when I need to decide between those two exact motors for a boat I'll be entering at WWIX. I happened to notice this on the CC motor box :

DSC04020.JPG

I can't with any confidence know just what variation in KV is meant/described by that statement but let's come up with a hypothetical situation (using some round numbers to make the math easier):

If the CC 2200 KV motor ACTUALLY is 2100KV {a variation of only 4.54%} , we're down 100KV and at a nominal 16V we're down 160rpm at the prop(unloaded). That's significant but may not tell the whole story.

I'm of the opinion (just an opinion, no empiricals to back it up) that when the Neu is advertised at 2200KV it hits that number - no disclaimer on the box about "motor KV is approximate"

DSC03996.JPG

One thing that enters into this issue that "bench math" doesn't account for is what happens to the loaded rpm. Pulling the trigger results in voltage drop from the battery(s) and the higher the motor efficiency/the less the rpm drop as well.

My take is that if you're competing in SAWS or live by the GPS, go with the NEU. If you just want to fun run, stay with the CC and keep the GPS at home. Visual acuity-wise, the perceptual JND (Just Noticeable Difference) in the speed window we're focusing on here is roughly 5mph - that is, you can't tell the difference looking at a boat that size going 60 mph or 65mph for the most part. If you MUST go 68mph , prop up ( watch your temps). You'll get there !!!

[MarkF]

I think Castle motors have a little more torque than neu which is why they have a little less rpm. To get the same speed you need to run a bigger prop. Try a M545 and or a 645 prop to get the same results. If your not racing I would stick with the less expensive Castle motor. My favorite prop is the M545 with the tips rounded and then the tips cupped a bit.

Mark

[keithbradley]

I would absolutely expect to see a significant gain when going from 9 deg to 15 deg on that motor...maybe not as much as you would like in this case, but I think it will noticably run better.
I agree that if the timing is close, raising it will only net small gains. However, if the timing is too low, raising it by 5 or 6 degrees can make a huge difference in some cases. I notice more in the larger motors, but your motor should pick up as well. I've had boats that adopted a completely different personality when going from 10 to 15 degrees with a y wind.

With your FE experience I am sure you know that have the boat trimmed out well will make a big difference in speed as well...68mph with that setup is pretty impressive.

[properchopper]

i would absolutely expect to see a significant gain when going from 9 deg to 15 deg on that motor...maybe not as much as you would like in this case, but i think it will noticably run better.
I agree that if the timing is close, raising it will only net small gains. However, if the timing is too low, raising it by 5 or 6 degrees can make a huge difference in some cases. I notice more in the larger motors, but your motor should pick up as well. I've had boats that adopted a completely different personality when going from 10 to 15 degrees with a y wind.

with your fe experience i am sure you know that have the boat trimmed out well will make a big difference in speed as well...68mph with that setup is pretty impressive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V60YYYo1aDY

Reading from the prior run with a single 4S 5000

Zi6_0311.jpg

FWIW I'm going with the Castle/Neu for my current build. I've built lots of customer FE30's with that motor and they work out really well. They seem to be made very nicely and have have tons of power. I'm going to run mine really hard and have confidence that it'll get the job done.

[keithbradley]

Looks sweet Tony!
Just to be clear...I wasn't questioning your speed claims at all...just saying that a well set up boat will go significantly faster than one that is not.