37" Genesis Build

[dddmx3]

Looking to build a 37" Genesis. Bought the hull and hardware. Stuck on the electronics.

Thinking of going with 2x Leopard 4550kv Brushless Inrunners (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=leo-3650&cat=148) with a swordfish 200+ esc (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=hef-sword-200%2B) and 4s lipo 5000mah 25C (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=emp-HP25C50004S) to each one. Let me know if I have any problems with my planned setup.

[h2o 1]

Thats over 67,000 rpm's,problem isnt the word! Catastrophic failure is more like it!!

[dddmx3]

Thats over 67,000 rpm's,problem isnt the word! Catastrophic failure is more like it!!

What should I do to fix my setup?

[h2o 1]

Youre good on the esc,you may want to get higher c rated batts also. For 4s go with a lower kv, around 1800 to 2200 kv.You may also want a longer can motor

[dddmx3]

Youre good on the esc,you may want to get higher c rated batts also. For 4s go with a lower kv, around 1800 to 2200 kv.You may also want a longer can motor

How about this inrunner 2200kv 70mm inrunner (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=leo-3674&cat=148) with these lipos? (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=emp-HP45C50004S)

[h2o 1]

NICE !!! That would make that Genesis scream!!

[dddmx3]

NICE !!! That would make that Genesis scream!!

Thanks. Will update with pictures while installing.

[h2o 1]

Always start small with ur props and check your temps often during the break in period. Goodluck with your build!:rockon2:

[dddmx3]

What size props do you recommend?

Also... should I make both props spin clockwise? Or make the left one spin counter clockwise (reversed prop) and the right one clockwise (normal prop)? It seems kinda like a smart idea..

[h2o 1]

Octura x442 is where i would start with props. Counter rotating on the props.

[dddmx3]

Thanks.
Bigger props = more speed, less run time because of more work
Smaller props = less speed, more run time because of less work
right?

Is that what it is called? Counter rotating? Also, what do you think of the cnc props?

[h2o 1]

Personaly im a fan of the smaller props and high rpm's! Cant tell you too much about the paddle wheels.Correct,its called counter rotating.They can turn both inward or outward. I like the CNC props, that what i have on my Daytona/ Genesis.

[dddmx3]

Ok. So pretty much I just have to buy a bunch of plastic props and once I find a set I like, buy cnc ones?

[h2o 1]

Its a good idea to start with the Composite props if you can find them in l/r configuration.

[dddmx3]

Ok. I'll find out what I like and then buy the same set but cnc version. Thanks for your help

[dddmx3]

NICE !!! That would make that Genesis scream!!

Would if I go with the leopard 4082s instead? This video is so tempting... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK_VYTokzLQ

[kevinpratt823]

Would if I go with the leopard 4082s instead? This video is so tempting... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK_VYTokzLQ
If you watch the video through to the end, you will find out what likely happens if you run a setup that extreme. The driveline self destructs and tears the boat up. That is 2 motors turning about 48,000 rpms on 6s, they are more appropriate for 4s.

[h2o 1]

I agree! not only that,you would have a severe weight issue with those big motors and the lipo's needed to feed them. The 36/74's should do just fine.

[jkr]

Also you have to reinforce it.
For me you can use Leopard 3665/3D 2680kv on 4s with seaking 120A esc.

[dddmx3]

Ok. I figured the coupler or whatever was just loose. So you guys are saying my setup will be pretty fast? I've built rc brushless boats before just never fully understood the electronics part.

[h2o 1]

Define Fast...When i started this hobby speed was everything! Once i got over 55 mph, i found myself paddling more to get my boat instead of driving it.

[jkr]

How fast you want to go?

[dddmx3]

Define Fast...When i started this hobby speed was everything! Once i got over 55 mph, i found myself paddling more to get my boat instead of driving it.


How fast you want to go?

Well I got my 32 inch cat to about 50. Maybe 60-70 mph with this one?

[jkr]

Hmm
You can spin a pair 45mm with Leo 3674 2650kv but probably a pair of 3665 2680kv will get you there.
You see it isn't only what motor to use...weight ratio is a big factor.

[dddmx3]

Hmm
You can spin a pair 45mm with Leo 3674 2650kv but probably a pair of 3665 2680kv will get you there.
You see it isn't only what motor to use...weight ratio is a big factor.

The 3665s.. With what kind of battery supply?

[jkr]

4s or 3674 2650kv on 4s also

[dddmx3]

4s or 3674 2650kv on 4s also

I'll just go with the 3674 2650 on 4s. Wait.. It's technically called 4s2p right?

Just finished painting the hull today, will post some pictures after I reinforce the inside of the hull.

[dogg]

I'll just go with the 3674 2650 on 4s. Wait.. It's technically called 4s2p right?

Just finished painting the hull today, will post some pictures after I reinforce the inside of the hull.

4s 2p is only if you buy a 4s 2p battery. If you buy a 4s battery, you will not be running them in (2p) parallel as if you were running a single motor. To do so you would be running 4 battery packs which is way too heavy.

I would assume that you will run a 4s battery PER MOTOR/ESC (or as mentioned above you could run a 4s 2p in one single battery pack) per motor. Beware though, you may not fit the 4s 2p packs in the hull - someone with a genesis twin will need to varify this as I have a genesis single and they wouldnt fit in the sponsons from my reckoning, however you may fit them as they will be positioned in the centre of the hull for your application.

[dddmx3]

4s 2p is only if you buy a 4s 2p battery. If you buy a 4s battery, you will not be running them in (2p) parallel as if you were running a single motor. To do so you would be running 4 battery packs which is way too heavy.

I would assume that you will run a 4s battery PER MOTOR/ESC

Oh I was wrong. I figured the 2p standed for 2 packs or something. I will be running a 4s lipo to each esc. Sorry for the confusion.

[dddmx3]

So you guys all agree the Leopard 3674 2650kv with either turnigy 180a or swordfish 200+ with a 4s lipo to each esc will be a good and fast setup?

I will be ordering soon

[TristanJones]

If that doesn't run 60mph Id be very surprised

[dddmx3]

If that doesn't run 60mph Id be very surprised

Nice! Now I'm stoked!!!!

[TristanJones]

I got 49mph out of my stock genesis set up on 5s with TFL 440 prop.
Im upgrading to 4074 2200kv on 5s now with bigger prop, hoping to see 60+mph, thats with a single turnigy motor...

[dddmx3]

I got 49mph out of my stock genesis set up on 5s with TFL 440 prop.
Im upgrading to 4074 2200kv on 5s now with bigger prop, hoping to see 60+mph, thats with a single turnigy motor...

Perfect but I'm running 4s to each side.. So hopefully won't make too big of a difference.

[TristanJones]

Im guessing twin motors = 2 props = twice the water moved (potentially), taking into account the extra weight, if set up right I still cant see it having any dramas doing 60mph, but time will tell.

[Alfa Spirit]

Do you have batteries and motors? If not you should run 5S for each combo Seaking 180A and 3674 1900kV. For the same power you will have less amps, better performance and more autonomy.With a 5S setup you can use bigger props .
This is not necessary to run 40000rpm, 35000rpm is perfect . I have a Genesis twin 5S, Seaking 180A and NEU Motors 1850kV. The cat is a dream to drive :thumbup1:

[dddmx3]

Do you have batteries and motors? If not you should run 5S for each combo Seaking 180A and 3674 1900kV. For the same power you will have less amps, better performance and more autonomy.With a 5S setup you can use bigger props .
This is not necessary to run 40000rpm, 35000rpm is perfect . I have a Genesis twin 5S, Seaking 180A and NEU Motors 1850kV. The cat is a dream to drive :thumbup1:

Only thing I've bought so far is the hardware. Do you have a video? 5s sounds like a good plan :)

[jkr]

You don't need 180A esc.
120A esc is fine.

[LOVE6S]

Did you have your mind set on a 4s set up? Do you have the lipo's now?

[Alfa Spirit]

Right, I think a Seaking 120A is enough but the Seaking 180A is a good value, no problem with this esc. Sorry I have no video. Have a look to this link, you have german setups for HPR 06 115cm, a little bigger than our Genesis 100cm I think this will help you. Don' t choose 6S batteries, they are too big.

http://hpr06.speedtoy.com/setup.htm

[dddmx3]

You don't need 180A esc.
120A esc is fine.

120 it is then. This right? http://www.hobbypartz.com/07e-c-seaking-120a.html


Did you have your mind set on a 4s set up? Do you have the lipo's now?

Nope. I have only only bought the hardware. Rudder, Flex shafts, Stingers... Plus you guys convinced me I need 5s, so that's what I'm going with.


Right, I think a Seaking 120A is enough but the Seaking 180A is a good value, no problem with this esc. Sorry I have no video. Have a look to this link, you have german setups for HPR 06 115cm, a little bigger than our Genesis 100cm I think this will help you. Don' t choose 6S batteries, they are too big.

http://hpr06.speedtoy.com/setup.htm

So I shouldn't get the 120? And no 6s... You guys convinced me I need 5s

[Alfa Spirit]

Your setup should look like this

2 x 5S 5000mAh batteries, 2 x Seaking 120A ESC + program box, 2 x BL motors 1800kV to 2000kV 3674 size,
For your motors prefer Y wired motors. Brands : TPPower, Leopard, KEDA Saker, etc...
If you've got the money for vry good motors: NEU Motors and Tenshock

3674 4 Pole motor,and 2Y wired
91524

[dddmx3]

Your setup should look like this

2 x 5S 5000mAh batteries, 2 x Seaking 120A ESC + program box, 2 x BL motors 1800kV to 2000kV 3674 size,
For your motors prefer Y wired motors. Brands : TPPower, Leopard, KEDA Saker, etc...
If you've got the money for vry good motors: NEU Motors and Tenshock

3674 4 Pole motor,and 2Y wired
91524

Dually noted. Will do some thinking and will post some pictures of the painted hull soon when I can.

[TristanJones]

I ran a turnigy 120a ESC with my stock genesis motor on 5s, granted its an inefficient motor, but I was seeing ESC temps up to 70degC after 2mins running and wishing I had gone 180 from day one, I personally prefer to have a little up my sleeve. throttle response is awesoem with the t180.

[dddmx3]

I ran a turnigy 120a ESC with my stock genesis motor on 5s, granted its an inefficient motor, but I was seeing ESC temps up to 70degC after 2mins running and wishing I had gone 180 from day one, I personally prefer to have a little up my sleeve. throttle response is awesoem with the t180.

I think I'm going to go with the 180. Better safe than sorry right?


.............. + program box, .................

What do you mean by program box?

[TristanJones]

I think so, I forgot to mention I was only running a TFL 440 prop too, the T180 is alittle heavier and takes up more room, but thats what Id be using!
You can program certain settings into an esc, usually running mode IE forward, forward and reverse, reverse. motor timing and so on.

[dddmx3]

I think so, I forgot to mention I was only running a TFL 440 prop too, the T180 is alittle heavier and takes up more room, but thats what Id be using!
You can program certain settings into an esc, usually running mode IE forward, forward and reverse, reverse. motor timing and so on.

That's what I figured.. I've just never heard someone call it a program box before.

I was thinking of running a 45mm cnc prop :olleyes:

Also should I get a 25C lipo with 50C burst ....or..... a 45C lipo with 90C burst?

[dogg]

45c-90c burst. More current means more punch from the motors. Too little current (amperage) from the batteries means less efficiency and the motors will be overstressed due to lack of sufficient supply.

[dddmx3]

45c-90c burst. More current means more punch from the motors. Too little current (amperage) from the batteries means less efficiency and the motors will be overstressed due to lack of sufficient supply.

Thanks.

[LOVE6S]

Hey bud, you have many options that you can do, I wouldnt bail out totally on the 4s setup quite yet,, you original setup wasnt too bad, the only thing is I think the 2650kv motors on 4s was a little high on the kv, probally the 2200kv motors would be better. One question I have for you is can you fit a 4074 motor with a jacket in the sponsons of the hull? If so, if they will fit, I have a option for you, hobbyking has some leopard clone motors in stock right now, they are 4074 2000kv motors, they seem to be a good motor for the money, they are only 45.00 each, and they are very simular to the leopard, if not the same motor. A setup such as two of those, with two t180 esc's and two 5s lipos would be fast, maybe a little too fast, but what the heck, I think I am going to do one like that in the future. One drawback of going with the 5s lipos over a 4s setup, is that the 5s lipos will be larger, and you will probally have to go smaller in the MAH amount, the milliamps is the capasity of your battery, or how long it will run. For example a 5s 4000mah lipo, may be the same size as a 4s 5000 mah lipo. the two lipos in the same mah rating, the 5s will be larger, wich is ok if it fits ok, and doesn't put too much weight in the boat. Measure how much room you have for the lipos, where you are going to put them either in the sponsoons or on the tunnel, in the sponsoons is better, as it keeps the weight lower in the hull and is easyer to move them forward and backward to adjust you center of gravity, wich should be around 30%. The COG is the balance point of the boat, and should be about 30% from the rear transom where your stingers mount. Oh and I almost forgot, if you know what you can fit for a lipo in there, when your looking at them to buy them, it will give you the size they are in milimeters, they are expensive make sure they fit, and go for the higher c rating as the other person sugested. I know I threw alot out there, hope I didnt confuse you, pick what you want out of it and take you time and think things out, to make sure you get what you want and need, Shawn.

[Alfa Spirit]

In my Genesis I have two NEU 1512 with HRC water jackets, the NEU 1512 is 39mm diameter, they fit very well in the hull . MBP-RC have motor mounts for the Genesis hull http://mbp-rc.de/Motorspant-Genesis-GFK-schwarz

http://mbp-rc.de/bilder/produkte/gross/4578.png

5S 6000mAh Nano-Tech fit in the sponsons. I have nothing for sale, I just want to inform dddmx3

[dogg]

This isn't bad advice if they fit....


Hey bud, you have many options that you can do, I wouldnt bail out totally on the 4s setup quite yet,, you original setup wasnt too bad, the only thing is I think the 2650kv motors on 4s was a little high on the kv, probally the 2200kv motors would be better. One question I have for you is can you fit a 4074 motor with a jacket in the sponsons of the hull? If so, if they will fit, I have a option for you, hobbyking has some leopard clone motors in stock right now, they are 4074 2000kv motors, they seem to be a good motor for the money, they are only 45.00 each, and they are very simular to the leopard, if not the same motor. A setup such as two of those, with two t180 esc's and two 5s lipos would be fast, maybe a little too fast, but what the heck, I think I am going to do one like that in the future. One drawback of going with the 5s lipos over a 4s setup, is that the 5s lipos will be larger, and you will probally have to go smaller in the MAH amount, the milliamps is the capasity of your battery, or how long it will run. For example a 5s 4000mah lipo, may be the same size as a 4s 5000 mah lipo. the two lipos in the same mah rating, the 5s will be larger, wich is ok if it fits ok, and doesn't put too much weight in the boat. Measure how much room you have for the lipos, where you are going to put them either in the sponsoons or on the tunnel, in the sponsoons is better, as it keeps the weight lower in the hull and is easyer to move them forward and backward to adjust you center of gravity, wich should be around 30%. The COG is the balance point of the boat, and should be about 30% from the rear transom where your stingers mount. Oh and I almost forgot, if you know what you can fit for a lipo in there, when your looking at them to buy them, it will give you the size they are in milimeters, they are expensive make sure they fit, and go for the higher c rating as the other person sugested. I know I threw alot out there, hope I didnt confuse you, pick what you want out of it and take you time and think things out, to make sure you get what you want and need, Shawn.

[iamandrew]

I run 2 5S 5000 MAH packs , which are zippys, they only JUST fit in the sponsons, but apparantly on the net, 6S 5000 mah packs fit..... its just you wont actually get any photos to prove it hahaha

[TristanJones]

LOVE6S; I consider that good advise.
I would also recommend the turnigy aquastar 3974 2200kv motor, I believe it to be a leopard copy also though I havent used one myself am about to put 1 in my genesis and see if it will get me over 100kmh, then the leopard goes in, for now....

[Alfa Spirit]

I run 2 5S 5000 MAH packs , which are zippys, they only JUST fit in the sponsons, but apparantly on the net, 6S 5000 mah packs fit..... its just you wont actually get any photos to prove it hahaha

The Zippy Compact 6S 5000mAh should fit.... may be

[Rumdog]

Got any pics of your setup, Alpha?

[Alfa Spirit]

The Zippy Compact 6S 5000mAh should fit.... may be

Or 2 x 3S in each transom. Anyway 5S 1P is ok don' t worry. I will post pics with batteries.

[iamandrew]

so its compleatly built ?

[jkr]

so its compleatly built ?
Theoretically or hypothetically?

[dddmx3]

I've got alot of advice for setup.. Not sure which to choose. The leopard copies for $45 ea sound like a plausible setup?

[TristanJones]

decisions decisions, its half the fun of boating!!

[dddmx3]

So it's either,

2x Leopard Replica 4074 2000k ($47ea), 2x Seaking 180, 2x 5s 5000mah 45-90c lipos

Or

2x Saker 3674 1983kv ($33.18ea), 2x seaking 180, 2x 5s 5000mah 45-90c lipos

[TristanJones]

If the weight difference is minimal Id go the 4074, it can turn a bigger prop and would be my pick of the 2.

[TristanJones]

with cooling jackets fitted will they even fit though

[dogg]

If the weight difference is minimal Id go the 4074, it can turn a bigger prop and would be my pick of the 2.

X2 if they fit...

[Alfa Spirit]

HobbyWing Seaking 180A Version 2

http://www.himodel.com/electric/Seaking-180A_2-6S_Brushless_ESC_W_Water_cooling_for_Boat_V2.html

HobbyWing Digital LED program card for Seaking Series boat ESCs

http://www.himodel.com/electric/Digital_LED_Program_Card_for_Seaking_Series_Boat_E SCs.html

Outside diameter for a 40XX water jacket is 48mm and 45mm for a 36XX motor

PS: IMHO two 2000kV motors is a maximum to be quiet.

[TristanJones]

My leopard 4082 2200kv turned up today :) (thanks OSE!!). I've just finished building in extra strength in the tunnel and engine mount in mine, also fitted up 2 through hull water pick ups. Reinstalling the stuffing tube tomorrow with brass liner instead of Teflon, then I got 2 days to sharpen and balance my 2 new octura props, put it all back together and hopefully crack that 100kmh barrier by the weekend.

[dddmx3]

Just measure the inside of the sponsons and looks like anything over 50mm won't fit, but even 50 is pushing it. If the Leopard Replica 2000kv (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__17699__XK4074_B_2000KV_Brushless_Inrunner_for_Bo at.html) is 40mm in diameter, and with a OSE water jacket (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ham-leo40mm-L) I will be at 49mm which is really pushing it. Hopefully it will fit!

By the way, how big of a prop are you guys talking? 45mm, 50mm?

I also made my own mounts. See the last picture. Also, the hardware should be coming to my doorstep soon.. so I'm waiting on that!

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[TristanJones]

Just wandering if you have taken this motor in to consideration.. a little more expensive than the 4074B but comes with water jacket and is also a leopard copy, 39x74mm instead of 40x74mm. rated to 5s, 2200kv, Im going to try run 60mph on one this week if it shows up in time.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=22407
Unless there is something Im missing these look to be a great option and are my pick of the cheap chinese motors for boat. I will post results and video when it turns up if you like.
I have just picked up a x642 and m445 Octura props to run with a 40mm motor, every twin motor genesis I have seen on youtube claims to be running either of those and getting pretty wild speeds!!
2 of those aquastar motors in a genesis on 5s with a x642 prop would be stupidly overpowered Id think. Thats 2400w total rated power, Im not sure what the stock motor is rated at but Id be willing to bet its less than the 3974 aquastar motor and in stock guise mine goes 49.7mph.
Cheers.

[Alfa Spirit]

Go with a set of good 4 poles 3674.

And what about outrunner motors? A set of Scorpion 3226 1900kV? Hé Hé Hé

Viper 5018 is a great motor http://www.viper-rc.com/vsh.html

ALIGN 500MX is good, too

A very good and cheap KEDA MODEL outrunner:

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5073/temp749.jpg

[TristanJones]

Just measure the inside of the sponsons and looks like anything over 50mm won't fit, but even 50 is pushing it. If the Leopard Replica 2000kv (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__17699__XK4074_B_2000KV_Brushless_Inrunner_for_Bo at.html) is 40mm in diameter, and with a OSE water jacket (http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ham-leo40mm-L) I will be at 49mm which is really pushing it. Hopefully it will fit!

By the way, how big of a prop are you guys talking? 45mm, 50mm?

I also made my own mounts. See the last picture. Also, the hardware should be coming to my doorstep soon.. so I'm waiting on that!

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Did you make a template of that engine mount by chance?

[dddmx3]

.....I will post results and video when it turns up if you like.......Cheers.

Yes please!!


Outrunner

Man.. So much advice! Haha I don't even know what to choose anymore. Anybody have any motors to recommend with the videos along with it so that I can see how your setups run?


Did you make a template of that engine mount by chance?

Well I first made a cardboard engine mount then traced it onto some aluminum and made the mounts out of that so not really?

[TristanJones]

Ok I havent shot any video yet cause I still need to dial the boat in to the new set up. I will say that on 5s the 3974 aqua-star motor is pretty damn powerful. Its turning a x642 octura no worries not getting hot at all and I have no doubt it will see me to my 100kmh goal when I can open it up. Its well built and for the $$ I'm impressed, going to have to build another boat to use my leopard in I think....

[Alfa Spirit]

I bought a set of SUXFLY 4092 - 930kV motors (10S for each combo) + HRC water jackets for my 50'' FOUNTAIN

9217892179

If you want I have a set of 40mm x 50mm water jackets for sale

92180

[dddmx3]

Hey guys! It's been a few years.

The boat is still sitting in my closet. I don't know what happened but I never ended up finishing it. I will finish it now in the next month. I am thinking of going with two 2200kv motors (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=22407), two 120amp escs (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__24287__Turnigy_Aquastar_120A_Watercooled_ESC_w_P rogramming_Card_USA_Warehouse_.html), and 5s power to each esc. (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__45144__Turnigy_nano_tech_A_SPEC_G2_5000mah_5S_65 _130C_Lipo_Pack.html)

Prop size ideas anyone? Octura x645 maybe? 45mm CNC props?

[dddmx3]

Okay so I ordered the two 2200kv motors, I ordered one more ESC since I already have one, and lets get this boat on the water!!

Can't wait for the parts to come!

Last thing to order is the lipos & transmitter/receiver combo.

[dddmx3]

Great news! International parts came in very very quickly. So awesome. Only a few days. Check out the pictures. So many gooooodies. I'm thinking of ordering composite props to play with but then again.. cnc props are so cheap haha who knows :smile:

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[FearSys]

I'll be watching this closely. I have Genesis plans this winter.