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gyrotron
11-07-2012, 08:55 PM
Hello Guys,

I have had this boat for more than a week so far and up until now I did not have any problems with it. I was running it on (2) 2S lipos and yesterday I received (2) brand new 3S lipos so today after work I went to the pond to test drive it on a 6S setup. It ran great for about 2.5 mins and when I was getting ready to bring it ashore for the first temp check it stalled in the middle of the pond and I heard something blowing up below the canopy. I first thought the lipos had exploded but after recovering the boat I found out the motor had blown up. I contacted Horizon Hobby customer support and they took notes of the incident and will be replacing my boat right away (Kudos to Horizon Hobby customer service)

P.S.: Before the incident I had noticed one of the batteries was getting hotter than the other when I was running it on (2) 2S so I don’t know if the issue could be ESC related. The only mod was a sharpened and balanced X440 /3 prop I was running on it everything else was stock.

88240882378823888239

maxmekker
11-09-2012, 12:45 PM
What a shame .. Is this boat rated to run 6s. I understand 'it can' but do proboat say 'go ahead' ? It must be pritty quick on 6s. my geico on 2000kv motor and 5s is just to much to enjoy it in a relaxing way :-)

gyrotron
11-09-2012, 02:26 PM
What a shame .. Is this boat rated to run 6s. I understand 'it can' but do proboat say 'go ahead' ? It must be pritty quick on 6s. my geico on 2000kv motor and 5s is just to much to enjoy it in a relaxing way :-)
Hi Max,

This is what Proboat preaches on their website among other things:


Product Description
Key Features
Capable of reaching speeds of 50+mph

50+ mph will require a higher cell count (6S)


Needed To Complete

(2) 2S-3S Li-Po batteries or (2) 7.2V - 8.4V Ni-MH batteries with EC3 connector

States it will operate under the power load of (2) 3S Li-po = 6S

What they don't say is that the motor wire gauge and/or bullet connectors going to the ESC will not suppor that burst of current coming from a 6S cell count plus a 1800kv motor which doesn't help with cooling things (it was my 1st time running 6S so I did not know what to modify prior to running the boat). When I receive the replacement boat I will change the bullet connectors to 5.5mm and hope the cable wires don't burn again.

maxmekker
11-09-2012, 02:44 PM
I see. I think I read about someone tipping PB about the wires on the motor woud not hold up on 6s. Give us a video when you got it up and running again :-)

gyrotron
11-09-2012, 03:45 PM
Hi Max,

This is what Proboat preaches on their website among other things:


Product Description
Key Features
Capable of reaching speeds of 50+mph

50+ mph will require a higher cell count (6S)


Needed To Complete

(2) 2S-3S Li-Po batteries or (2) 7.2V - 8.4V Ni-MH batteries with EC3 connector

States it will operate under the power load of (2) 3S Li-po = 6S

What they don't say is that the motor cables gauge and/or bullet connectors going to the ESC will not suppor that burst of current coming from a 6S cell count plus a 1800kv motor which doesn't help with cooling things (it was my 1st time running 6S so I did not know what to modify prior to running the boat). When I receive the replacement boat I will change the bullet connectors to 5.5mm and hope the cable wires don't burn again.

P.S.: The 2.5 mins my Blackjack run on 6S, it easily broke the 50 mph barrier. It was faster than my Revolt 30 for sure.

gyrotron
11-11-2012, 12:37 AM
Here are some pics of the clean up and new motor I will be testing on the burnt Blackjack while the replacement boat arrives. I picked up ad Turnigy SK3 EDF-3659-1900kv ($47.88), installed 6mm bullet connectors, removed the sticker and added a water jacket. Motor started fine on dry so I am guessing the ESC and electronics are fine too. I will give it a run tomorrow on 4S and 6S and report back about this motor.

LOVE6S
11-11-2012, 01:33 AM
I have two of these motors, I am interested to know how you like it, have not tried mine yet, thanks.

gyrotron
11-11-2012, 01:56 AM
I have two of these motors, I am interested to know how you like it, have not tried mine yet, thanks.
Sure, I will report back tomorrow. Canopy also burnt so I will be running it with tape on the windshield which has a hole in it. Lets see how this motor holds on running an x440 /3 prop.

JimClark
11-11-2012, 02:02 AM
what prop did you use when running 6s?

TheShaughnessy
11-11-2012, 02:10 AM
what prop did you use when running 6s?

In the OP it says he is using an x440/3

gyrotron
11-11-2012, 02:13 AM
what prop did you use when running 6s?
Jim,

I was using the x440 /3 prop which I ran before on a 4s count.

gyrotron
11-11-2012, 02:28 AM
I see. I think I read about someone tipping PB about the wires on the motor woud not hold up on 6s. Give us a video when you got it up and running again :-)
Max,

I think we can tie this thread with one I just finished reading here is the link:

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?38256-Ugh-oh-Blackjack-29-may-have-an-issue&p=465617#post465617

PB is definetly aware of the 6S issue and their motor

olwarbirds
11-11-2012, 09:23 AM
Yes they are aware! and im not got gonna back down with them about this..we sell these boats....we have a PB29 and an Impulse 31....both are nice hulls....nice hardware....both have motor wire issues...and the impulse has a flexshaft coupler issue too....Gyrotron even if they are replacing the motor/boat...if it still has tlhe small wires on the motor, its gonna blow again...
They even tried to tell me that only the esc was 6S rated :( ... DJ

gyrotron
11-11-2012, 11:10 AM
Yes they are aware! and im not got gonna back down with them about this..we sell these boats....we have a PB29 and an Impulse 31....both are nice hulls....nice hardware....both have motor wire issues...and the impulse has a flexshaft coupler issue too....Gyrotron even if they are replacing the motor/boat...if it still has tlhe small wires on the motor, its gonna blow again...
They even tried to tell me that only the esc was 6S rated :( ... DJ

olwarbirds,

I really love this boat design and I had high expectations on its 6S compatility which at the begining made me like it even more. The whole point of having an ESC that supports 6S is to really be able to run 6S w/o upgrading the motor and/or connectors because of PB claiming it was 6S compatible I choose to go that way. I am totaly disapointed about the whole 6S issue and it certainly did not meet my expectations in the 6S arena. For the overprice I paid I feel they should recall their motors from current owners and place a disclaimer on the use of 6S... PB either truly makes this Blackack 6s compatible or not; it starts to smell like a Traxxas boat everyone knows for a not so good reputation with 6S cell count...

At least I can consider myself lucky and happy because they are replacing my boat so in that regard I have to give kudos to Horizon Hobby customer support. They have been very supportive and helpful of my problem with this boat.

Well, on my way to the pond before football time!

stadiumyamaha
11-11-2012, 11:55 AM
Proboat has done the same thing Traxxas did with the spartan. That's just not a good reliable 6s set up. Especially for sport running. Even if you do get it running reliably the hull has a tendency to stuff badly at high speeds. I love my first gen but know its limitations.
How many times will they replace the boat because if failed on 6s which it will again

olwarbirds
11-11-2012, 11:59 AM
Amen ... enjoy and im glad to hear that your happy with the CS on this issue... Just to clarify ...it wasnt PB who said that the esc was only 6S rated it was CS dealer rep at HH ... I will keep yall advised on what results I get with this.... all the best ... DJ

gyrotron
11-11-2012, 01:13 PM
Proboat has done the same thing Traxxas did with the spartan. That's just not a good reliable 6s set up. Especially for sport running. Even if you do get it running reliably the hull has a tendency to stuff badly at high speeds. I love my first gen but know its limitations.
How many times will they replace the boat because if failed on 6s which it will again
Stadium,

You are correct the stock setup is not suitable for 6S configuration w/o mods and if you are lucky and motor do not burn, then it won't be for long.

gyrotron
11-11-2012, 01:37 PM
I have two of these motors, I am interested to know how you like it, have not tried mine yet, thanks.
Loves6S,

Definetly give this motor a try with either the Miss Geico or the Blackjack 29. I think you won't be dissapointed.

Guys,

Report from the pond on the Turnigy SK3 EDF-3659-1900kv. For $47.88 this motor is a steal if its quality is as good as its power performance so far. The boat had better acceleration with the x440 /3 than it had with the stock motor; the added 100kv of this motor really gave some punch to the prop acceleration which I liked. Speedwise it was faster than the stock using a 4S setup and when I opened up the throtle it was lightning fast; much faster than the stock and still controlable. Temps as follows: Motor 101F, Batteries 86F, ESC 95F. Now on 6S this boat screams with this motor and I could not open it up full throtle w/o flying the hull; almost uncontrolable at full throtle. Temps as follows: Motor 111F, Batteries 94F, ESC 102F. At the moment I don't have a GPS to testify on the actual speed for the two cell counts I tested.

Conclusions so far: The Turnigy SKE EDF motor is a great upgrade if its quality holds up to its power (quality is yet to be determined). In terms of acceleration; this motor works very well with the x440 /3 prop. To me, this setup is great for added speed and acceleration running on 4S w/o compromising the stock ESC operation. I really like this setup on 4S and I will be running it from now on; I felt comfortable with the temp reads and initial acceleration and speed exceeded my expectations with a 4S cell count.

Currently charging my (2) 2S pack for a later run after the football game...

brg65
11-11-2012, 01:46 PM
Proboat is a well known, and well respected company for making great boats. I dont think much testing was done on quality control when putting out the Blackjack 29. It clearly states on the box and in the manual, it can run on 6s, everyone can see it. Even my local HS said it was ok. Running a boat on 6s clearly needs beefy wiring, connectors, and atleast a 120 amp esc to be safe. And 1800 kv on 6s is just asking for trouble. I am almost finished rebuilding mine and will post pix later today. Anyone wishing to run this boat on 6s from factory should swap the motor for a 1500 kv. The factory 80 amp esc should handle that.

gyrotron
11-11-2012, 03:47 PM
Proboat is a well known, and well respected company for making great boats. I dont think much testing was done on quality control when putting out the Blackjack 29. It clearly states on the box and in the manual, it can run on 6s, everyone can see it. Even my local HS said it was ok. Running a boat on 6s clearly needs beefy wiring, connectors, and atleast a 120 amp esc to be safe. And 1800 kv on 6s is just asking for trouble. I am almost finished rebuilding mine and will post pix later today. Anyone wishing to run this boat on 6s from factory should swap the motor for a 1500 kv. The factory 80 amp esc should handle that.

brg65,

What seems interesting/suspicious to me is that eventhough the release of the Bakcjack was delayed a lot, PB did not do the appropriate testing QC?, maybe they found this issue and had to delay the production while trying to find a solution/workaround. It's just my gut feeling on the issue.

maxmekker
11-11-2012, 04:14 PM
Looking F ward to see some clips of that motor in action gyrotron. I have the Geico, and I have both a leo 2000 and a 2150 kv motor and on 4 s it's both fun and controllable.I cant imagen how the bj 29 is on 6s, fast as hell :-)
I have my friends mystic also in the house and have driven that a few times, and it heaps better than my geico, runs better and much more easy to dial in, and get bounch free.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-w-e5QNmJCM&list=UURNlga8sE0qJBcPb_5FFovQ&index=17&feature=plpp_video

olwarbirds
11-11-2012, 05:01 PM
Us running a stock BJ 29 on 6S.....it handles great...as does the impulse on the same setup...we use 2 11.1v 5000mah 40c CRC lipos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZQmYMmJ3Sc

brg65
11-11-2012, 06:54 PM
8840788408

upgrades to my Blackjack 29

gyrotron
11-11-2012, 06:59 PM
brg65,

That is a high end upgrade compaired to what I did. I went on a budget for my dead Blackjack. I am looking preferibly for a camerawoman to make a video of the boat running the Turnigy SK3 EDF.

Nice setup you got there!

gyrotron
11-11-2012, 07:05 PM
Max,

Very nice runs. Where do you boat?

Doby
11-11-2012, 08:43 PM
Jim,

I was using the x440 /3 prop which I ran before on a 4s count.


prop down.

tlandauer
11-11-2012, 09:56 PM
GYROTRON,
I am curious for my own knowledge, did you actually hear a "pop" and can you still turn the motor shaft? I want to know if the rotor disintergrated. It is odd to me that the motor should give out before the ESC. I have several ProBoat branded motors , they seemd to be really well made, although I never tried the 1800kv with 6s. I am very found of them, both the 1500kv & 1800kv.
Now I don't want to say anything w/o personal experience, but when the current crop of boats came out sporting the "Dynamite" brand, I was not particularly jumping with joy. I had some Dynamite branded motors and ESCs for cars and my impression was they weren't first tier stuff. But I thought my concern was unfounded since I read from one post here stating that they are the same things just marked under a different brand/label.
Therefore I want to know had this been an old Proboat 1800kv motor , would it have lasted longer?

gyrotron
11-11-2012, 09:59 PM
prop down.
Doby,

What three blade prop would you recommend?

Thx

gyrotron
11-11-2012, 10:01 PM
GYROTRON,
I am curious for my own knowledge, did you actually hear a "pop" and can you still turn the motor shaft? I want to know if the rotor disintergrated. It is odd to me that the motor should give out before the ESC. I have several ProBoat branded motors , they seemd to be really well made, although I never tried the 1800kv with 6s. I am very found of them, both the 1500kv & 1800kv.
Now I don't want to say anything w/o personal experience, but when the current crop of boats came out sporting the "Dynamite" brand, I was not particularly jumping with joy. I had some Dynamite branded motors and ESCs for cars and my impression was they weren't first tier stuff. But I thought my concern was unfounded since I read from one post here stating that they are the same things just marked under a different brand/label.
Therefore I want to know had this been an old Proboat 1800kv motor , would it have lasted longer?
tlandauer,

Yes I did hear a pop before the boat stalled in the middle of the pond and the rotor is unable to turn.

tlandauer
11-11-2012, 10:11 PM
tlandauer,

Yes I did hear a pop before the boat stalled in the middle of the pond and the rotor is unable to turn.
Thanks for your reply! I hope you get your replacement soon, and also thanks for letting us know the other motor, always good to learn!
Looking at the picture I wonder if the RPM increase from 6s disintergrated the rotor and locked the motor. Although that would have cooked the ESC, hopefully someone else might explain this further. I had an out runner burnt once because it got tangled up with water cooling tubes, the wire coating was blistered and turned into black soot! After it cooled down I could still run it! ---Of course I changed it right away but it was still able to turn! ( be powered ) It takes alot to burn a motor.

LOVE6S
11-11-2012, 10:48 PM
Loves6S,

Definetly give this motor a try with either the Miss Geico or the Blackjack 29. I think you won't be dissapointed.

Guys,

Report from the pond on the Turnigy SK3 EDF-3659-1900kv. For $47.88 this motor is a steal if its quality is as good as its power performance so far. The boat had better acceleration with the x440 /3 than it had with the stock motor; the added 100kv of this motor really gave some punch to the prop acceleration which I liked. Speedwise it was faster than the stock using a 4S setup and when I opened up the throtle it was lightning fast; much faster than the stock and still controlable. Temps as follows: Motor 101F, Batteries 86F, ESC 95F. Now on 6S this boat screas and I could not open it up full throtle w/o flying the hull; almost uncontrolable at full thotle. Temps as follows: Motor 111F, Batteries 94F, ESC 102F. At the moment I don't have a GPS to testify on the actual speed for the two cell counts I tested.

Conclusions so far: The Turnigy SKE EDF motor is a great upgrade if its quality holds up to its power (quality is yet to be determined). In terms of acceleration; this motor works very well with the x440 /3 prop. To me, this setup is great for added speed and acceleration running on 4S w/o compromising the stock ESC operation. I really like this setup on 4S and I will be running it from now on; I felt comfortable with the temp reads and initial acceleration and speed exceeded my expectations with a 4S cell count.

Currently charging my (2) 2S pack for a later run after the football game... Thanks for the input on the motor, I had a good feeling about these motors, they are actually a EDF motor or jet motor and sposed to have some good bearings, I wonder if you went to a X440 2 blade prop if the boat would be a little better on 6s, is it just blowing over at top speed, because of the weight and lenght of the hull? So all you changed is the motor and the connectors, the esc and wires are holding up ok? Looks like the temps are good, I think the open motor front helps too. I love this boat, just wish it was a couple inches longer, nice job on the fix, looks like it never happened.

gyrotron
11-11-2012, 11:17 PM
...nice job on the fix, looks like it never happened.

Yes I took the time to clean it up well; vacuum the interior a couple of times; three passes with kitchen/desinfecting cleaner wipes, and some alcohol rub over the wire's silicone at the end to release/eliminate the burnt odor.

olwarbirds
11-11-2012, 11:19 PM
Yes I took the time to clean it up well; vacuum the interior a couple of times; three passes with kitchen/desinfecting cleaner wipes, and some alcohol rub over the wire's silicone at the end to release/eliminate the burnt smell.

Nice, lm looking forward to updates on that new setup you have guy...im looking at options for our BJ29 and Impulse31.... DJ

Doby
11-12-2012, 12:06 AM
Doby,

What three blade prop would you recommend?

Thx

Smaller..... If you ran the same prop on 4S as you did on 6S, there's your problem, and it sounds like thats what you did.....Also, running for 2.5 minutes before brining it in for temp checks after you switched from 4S to 6S is not the brightest thing to do either....30 -40 seconds max with a new set up should be the max before you bring it back for a check. Its a combination of both your's and ProBoats fault as to why this happened. ProBoat should not advertise 6S unless they also tell people to make other changes as well before running 6S..

As for prop choice...again, smaller (there is no such thing as to small to start with) and bring it in often...check temps...slowly prop up....repeat...

gyrotron
11-12-2012, 02:15 AM
.....Also, running for 2.5 minutes before brining it in for temp checks after you switched from 4S to 6S is not the brightest thing to do either....30 -40 seconds max with a new set up should be the max before you bring it back for a check...

Doby,

We are here to enjoy, share and help each other... not knowing something or having less experience than others is not IQ dependent... nonetheless I thank you for the info on your post.

tlandauer
11-12-2012, 02:46 AM
Gyrotron,
Sorry to bother you again, I really like that shiny water cooler jacket,:rockon2: where did you get it?

maxmekker
11-12-2012, 04:04 AM
Max,

Very nice runs. Where do you boat?

I and my friend run in Norway.

I sat up his PNP Mystic with a T180 stock motor and a Prather 220 prop. And boy did that run well. Good run times and nice speed with the stock motor, and the boat was just running so smooth.
The M and BJ29 only differs on the esc ? Motor is the same.I Still have that stock 1800 Mystic motor , it was only run one time in the video before it got swopped for the Leo.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N55GDspMSXc&list=UURNlga8sE0qJBcPb_5FFovQ&index=19&feature=plpp_video

I smoked my pb 1500 kv in my geico, but that was on 5s and prather 230, holy smoke that was fun while it lasted. It would turn but the wires were almost gone...
On 6s with the prather 215 I had no problems, strong motor , nice temps.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqD0KLJ8ckE&list=UURNlga8sE0qJBcPb_5FFovQ&index=54&feature=plpp_video

maxmekker
11-12-2012, 04:19 AM
Here is the last run we did . To cold and dark here In Norway to do boating just now I'm afraid, so make and keep those video clip's comming so we can have something to watch :-)

Here my friend dared to open up some more . It's pritty fast with the setup now. 2150 kv leo 642 and nano 65-130c lipos.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0ZEaQ6ocZo&list=UURNlga8sE0qJBcPb_5FFovQ&index=12&feature=plpp_video

gyrotron
11-12-2012, 09:16 AM
Gyrotron,
Sorry to bother you again, I really like that shiny water cooler jacket,:rockon2: where did you get it?
I got the jacket from the OSE shop online

tlandauer
11-12-2012, 08:46 PM
I got the jacket from the OSE shop online
Thanks, I saw it now. Looks much better in your boat than it is on the web. :thumbup:

gyrotron
11-17-2012, 01:24 AM
Thanks for the input on the motor, I had a good feeling about these motors, they are actually a EDF motor or jet motor and sposed to have some good bearings, I wonder if you went to a X440 2 blade prop if the boat would be a little better on 6s, is it just blowing over at top speed, because of the weight and lenght of the hull? So all you changed is the motor and the connectors, the esc and wires are holding up ok? Looks like the temps are good, I think the open motor front helps too. I love this boat, just wish it was a couple inches longer, nice job on the fix, looks like it never happened.
LOVE6S

I will try an X438 prop this weekend and report about the boat handling the 1900 kv and the 6S count. Have you tried the SK3 motor?

LOVE6S
11-17-2012, 06:34 AM
LOVE6S

I will try an X438 prop this weekend and report about the boat handling the 1900 kv and the 6S count. Have you tried the SK3 motor? I have nut has a chance yet, been working on some bigger stuff. is that x438 a 2 or 3 blade prop?

Jason4636
11-19-2012, 05:13 AM
I hate anytime I have to go retive a boat. Say it flips, burnt motor, esc, or anything. But to me you guys that are running 6s with a 1800kv motor. Keep your rescue boat handy!!! I always like to be on the safe side on my setups. I try not to ever run higher than 30-35,000 rpm. And you guys are running 6s with an 1800kv motor, thats 39,960rpms. That rpm is up their in SAW rpm range to me. To keep it from burning up, prop way down. But then you don't get the benifit for running 6s. Or get you a MG 1500kv motor and run 6s. Your still turning 33,300.
Or do like I did with my MG. Buy you a leo 4082 2200kv, T-180, x642 and run 4s2p. And you'll run in the low to mid 50's. I still have some tuning to do on mine. But I'm sure, I can get it into the mid to high 50's

tlandauer
11-19-2012, 05:30 AM
I hate anytime I have to go retive a boat. Say it flips, burnt motor, esc, or anything. But to me you guys that are running 6s with a 1800kv motor. Keep your rescue boat handy!!! I always like to be on the safe side on my setups. I try not to ever run higher than 30-35,000 rpm. And you guys are running 6s with an 1800kv motor, thats 39,960rpms. That rpm is up their in SAW rpm range to me. To keep it from burning up, prop way down. But then you don't get the benifit for running 6s. Or get you a MG 1500kv motor and run 6s. Your still turning 33,300.
Or do like I did with my MG. Buy you a leo 4082 2200kv, T-180, x642 and run 4s2p. And you'll run in the low to mid 50's. I still have some tuning to do on mine. But I'm sure, I can get it into the mid to high 50's
:iagree:
With the exact same set up as yours my MG ran 53.3 mph on Garmin GPS.
I understand everyone is different, but personally I also enjoy the knowledge of having a comfort zone. That said, the Proboat 1500kv really CAN handle 6s.

Jason4636
11-19-2012, 05:49 AM
:iagree:
I think a 1500kv motor is safe running on 6s.

I know in my fantasm, I have a 980kv run on 8-10s. Thats only 29,000-36,260 rpm. And I just smoked a $300 esc 2 weeks ago. And I'm still not anywhere near the rpm's there running. Now I can't wait to build my MHZ Mystic mono with twin Proteus 524's. It should haul some a**!!!

tlandauer
11-19-2012, 05:57 AM
That sounds awsome, can't wait to see your build! :beerchug:

BTW, on my DF 45" Sniper , my Neu 2230 1y is 725kv running 12s 2p, and that is only 32625 rpm. I should clarify that I DID NOT build that boat, bought here from a member.

Jason4636
11-19-2012, 06:05 AM
What speed are you getting with your sniper? I started out wanting to build one of them with a single proteus. But I'm really leaning toward a twin mystic mono. I might have Keith Bradley build it for me. He built my Fantasm and it's top notch. At $650 just for the Hull, and that's not including shipping from Germany. I'd realy hate to mess it up.

tlandauer
11-19-2012, 06:23 AM
There was a youtube link from that member and he had reached 70mph. ( I can't find it now, but it looked real fast) , I ran that boat for a very short time after I restored the hull from shipping damage,:cursing: I did not clock it with a GPS. Because it is rather on the big side and I have not thought of running the boat often. It has a Shulze 40-160 ESC which I now really appreciate its smooth throttle curve now that I have been in this hobby a bit longer. In the end, you really do get what you paid for. lol...
I think whatever decision you make you will be happy with the boat, I understand your concerns. Nevertheless, it is exciting and I wish you the best !
Cheers!

mtbenjamin77
11-19-2012, 08:00 AM
Here are some pics of the clean up and new motor I will be testing on the burnt Blackjack while the replacement boat arrives. I picked up ad Turnigy SK3 EDF-3659-1900kv ($47.88), installed 6mm bullet connectors, removed the sticker and added a water jacket. Motor started fine on dry so I am guessing the ESC and electronics are fine too. I will give it a run tomorrow on 4S and 6S and report back about this motor.

You should run a smaller prop. and definitely not 6S with the 1900kv motor it will fail

mtbenjamin77
11-19-2012, 08:06 AM
8840788408

upgrades to my Blackjack 29

is that a 4082 with a 150 flex

gyrotron
11-19-2012, 09:18 AM
I have nut has a chance yet, been working on some bigger stuff. is that x438 a 2 or 3 blade prop?
It is a x438 2 blade

gyrotron
11-19-2012, 09:24 AM
You should run a smaller prop. and definitely not 6S with the 1900kv motor it will fail

mtbenjamin77,

I am definetly running this motor (Turnigy SK3 EDF - 1900Kv) with a 4s count.

gyrotron
11-24-2012, 02:50 PM
Hi Gang,

I just finished replacing the stock motor and ESC on the Blackjack I received as a replacement. I had a Feigao 540XL 10T 1,668 Kv laying around and went ahead and installed it together with a Seaking 180A. I will be running the boat with an X440 /3 prop today. I will do the first run on 4s and the second on 6S. Here are the pics.

Diesel6401
12-01-2012, 05:03 PM
A few of us had a feeling this would happen. The Traxxas 6s marketing from PB/HH rather disappointed me. Have a look at the Obsession w/ 6s thread in the battery section. The PB1500 would have been PERFECT for this 6s route, I'm not sure why they didn't go that route. That motor has been proven on 6s. The 1800kv pulled around 60 amps on 4s w/ grim 40x52/3 which is similar to x440/3 on my MG. Not sure how different the new revised motor is over the old Stiletto motor, but I would imagine identical numbers. I can only imagine his many amps the motor is pulling on 6s with the same prop around 40K unloaded. I would highly suggest folks NOT running that motor on 6s. Im not sure how the new esc performs, but the PB1500 with the new esc and guys could have a nice 4s-6s setup... just my 2 pennies....

S3 iPhone killer via Tapatalk

dana
12-01-2012, 05:21 PM
Yeah I said the same thing.... Why would those meatheads at proboat not have put the 1500 in there? It appears they have no idea wtf is going on....

stadiumyamaha
12-01-2012, 08:04 PM
Hear hear.

tlandauer
12-01-2012, 09:48 PM
Love that 1500kv motor, I also dig the 1800 on 4s, they both have given me reliable services. I know many have said the Dynamite motor is the same, wonder if it is really the case?
I am afraid Proboat has succumbed to marketing gimmicks: the higher the cell count the more the sales boy at your LHS can brag about it. I was at my LHS about a year ago and a guy was buying a Spartan, this is already the V2, he had some concerns about running on 6s, the sales boy was telling him go for the 6s, it will put a big grin on his face.
Hopefully they will have the integrity to revise their sales literature in the future. ( Too many warranty replacements will do that) .

dana
12-01-2012, 09:54 PM
Yup

lomdel
12-02-2012, 10:53 AM
Hi Gang,

I just finished replacing the stock motor and ESC on the Blackjack I received as a replacement. I had a Feigao 540XL 10T 1,668 Kv laying around and went ahead and installed it together with a Seaking 180A. I will be running the boat with an X440 /3 prop today. I will do the first run on 4s and the second on 6S. Here are the pics.

How did you fix the T180 to the hull? Here is my mods. It's a OSE Leopard 1400kv with the T180. The 1400kv should be safe on 6S.
89454

gyrotron
12-02-2012, 01:12 PM
How did you fix the T180 to the hull? Here is my mods. It's a OSE Leopard 1400kv with the T180. The 1400kv should be safe on 6S.
[/ATTACH]89454[/ATTACH]
Hello lomdel,

In my case, I carefully drilled a couple of holes on the hull's electronics tray, both sides of the ESC location and used a zipitie to fasten it down.

lomdel
12-03-2012, 02:02 AM
Gyrotron, must have been nerve-racking drilling so close to the hull bottom. I considered it as well, but the risk seems too big...

gyrotron
12-03-2012, 07:28 PM
Gyrotron, must have been nerve-racking drilling so close to the hull bottom. I considered it as well, but the risk seems too big...
Yeah, I had to have a sip of 18 year scotch in between...

tlandauer
12-03-2012, 07:32 PM
Yeah, I had to have a zip of 18 year scotch in between...
:lol::lol::lol:

gyrotron
12-04-2012, 01:44 AM
I hate anytime I have to go retive a boat. Say it flips, burnt motor, esc, or anything. But to me you guys that are running 6s with a 1800kv motor. Keep your rescue boat handy!!! I always like to be on the safe side on my setups. I try not to ever run higher than 30-35,000 rpm. And you guys are running 6s with an 1800kv motor, thats 39,960rpms. That rpm is up their in SAW rpm range to me. To keep it from burning up, prop way down. But then you don't get the benifit for running 6s. Or get you a MG 1500kv motor and run 6s. Your still turning 33,300.
Or do like I did with my MG. Buy you a leo 4082 2200kv, T-180, x642 and run 4s2p. And you'll run in the low to mid 50's. I still have some tuning to do on mine. But I'm sure, I can get it into the mid to high 50's
Jason,

Does the Leo 4082 fit on the stock MG motor mount w/o any mod?

Jason4636
12-04-2012, 07:22 AM
I changed out my motor mount, I know the one they sale on OSE, Kintec there both to shot. And you need to raise them of the floor some how. All I did was cut 3 strips of CF to raise it up higher. Fightercat racing has one that is made tall enough that you don't need to modify the mount any.

I have seen MG's with stock motor mounts, and still run the 4082

ray schrauwen
12-04-2012, 11:12 AM
It would be good to support the rear of a 4082 in stock motor mount.

I think if people want to run 6S they should use smaller less Mah cells that are lighter. Quite possibly some add cells that are slighlty too heavy for the HP of the 1800kv motor and it overloads it if you are not WOT 90% of the time.

Some think you can stop and start a million times, do spins, wheelies etc. and it won't hurt but, it's harder on electonics than WOT most of the time.

Same goes for the esc.

CHIEFY_44
12-09-2012, 02:26 AM
to be honest i cannot understand why people want to run 6s setups, i have a gieco with a t-180, leo4074 2150kv and i run a m445 prop and this boat runs high 50's all the time just takes a bit of time and effort to tune your setup, infact i am sure i could prop up to a m545 no problem, oh yeah its a 4s setup, i run 4s2p 4000mah 45-90c cells, runs great fast and reliable.

maxmekker
12-09-2012, 08:54 AM
+1 on that C 44. My friends mystic (se video in first page) is running great with the leo 2150+ t180, as you have. On 4s it's fast , fun and have good run times.

olwarbirds
12-11-2012, 11:59 AM
In regards to the 6S comments and issue...PB/HH have been replacing our customers motors that have had issues running 6S...it was only a few of the boats that had a problem...The ones that have been replaced are running 6S with no probs now. My bud and I have been running 6S with no over amping/heat problems at all...it was just a bottlenecking/impedence prob where the wires from esc joined the wires from the motor...we are in the process of swapping out the esc and motors..replacing them with T180 and leopard 4082 2000kv ....personally we like 6S setups in these boats....have other boats with 4S for spec racing...we just like to go fast with the BJ29 and impulse31 and they are a lot of fun on 6S...so its a personal choice and like previously stated per PB online and on the box these boats were both rated for 6S...so don't blame sales people or dealers/hobbyshops for going with what was being stated as being the right lipos for these boats by the manufacturer.... DJ

CHIEFY_44
12-12-2012, 04:10 AM
Just to clear things up a bit here, I work for a hobby shop and I recommend the bj29 everytime as I think its a great boat, the hull has always been basically good since it was first brought out as the miss gieco, which led to the mystic, to this boat with what I think has better hardware and small details like the switch to change the esc from nimh to Lipo mode without having to connect a programmer card, I think this is a great feature as people first coming to the hobby forget to or don't know they have to program lvc and damage there nice new lipos.
Now to my comments about 6 cell running, YES I agree its a personel choice and yes I can see the attraction of the extra speed, but what I cannot understand is when people do run this configuration they complain if the electronics fry. I don't know about anyone else but rtr boats are made so people can get into the hobby easy, and learn how to set the things up, then when they feel confident start to modify to make them quicker and what to up grade to make them reliable again, anyone asking me what to do first I say change all connections to 5.5mm bullets, then a esc upgrade when they want a bigger motor. But when experienced boaters just slap in 6cells and go for it on standard equipment run as fast as they can for as long as they can and then complain that things fry then in my opinion they cannot shout foul, that's crazy. I ran my gieco for many hours in standard rtr configuration never had a problem I even now have the original esc and motor that I could use again, but when I wanted more speed, I beefed up the electronics first then upgraded esc/motor, and never had a problem.
Rtr boats are great for what they are made for, getting people into the hobby, but people that buy rtr that are experienced boaters and ifire in a set of 6 cells, fry electronics and then complain about it are crazy, and when newcomers or people read about such things on forums like this are not going to buy anything and not come and join our hobby, as they are going to think they are going to have to buy new electronics everytime they run the boat.
I agree proboat should have something in black and white that if people are going to use 6cells then they need to change this and that and give a recommended prop to ease the problem of burning electronics.
Now its time I got off my soap box and go to bed, also wait for the fallout that I'm sure is going to come my way.

properchopper
12-12-2012, 02:37 PM
This beat has been going on and on for years. There's three basic reasons for failures from volting up.

#1 : Almost EVERYONE wants to gofaster. Those wanting to do this with a rtr boat (ownership of which usually indicates an entry-level pedigree/mindset) is very often associated with insufficient tuning skills, at least intitially. Believing the hype provided by the manufacturer can understandably bamboozle one to thinking that up-volting is the quick fix to faster speeds. (see #2)

#2 : The boat making companies, caught in a competitive atmosphere between brands need to supply the Iwannagofaster crowd with the simplest cure, e.g. upvolting. This in spite of the pitfalls (see #3).

#3: Companies like AQ and PB KNOW with KNOWINGNESS that these products won't hold up with over-upgrading. They're not that unknowkedgeable. They perform marketing due diligence and realize as a result that these products should target the largest (read most profit-bearing) market demographic - the entry-level hobbiest who will enjoy a happy day at the lake with the stock, rtr config.

Conference with Design Engineers and Marketing Accountants :

Design Engineer : So how should we design this boat to perform while staying within the profit/price point target ?

Marketing Accountant : Build it to the benchmark of adequate performance , affordable buy-in, without accumulating too big a warrantee fulfillment debit

Design Engineer : Well it'll be somewhat mediocre in the speed department

Marketing Accountant : Research indicates that our greatest ROI will come from the more than 80% (a statistic I just made up but probably close) market segment who will be happy with the boat as delivered and won't upvolt. We're in it to make money, afterall

Design Engineer : What about the other customers who, not realizing that the boat was never intended to be up-modded, will take untrustworthy short-cuts to gofaster and will have the boat fall apart and/or burn stuff up ?

Marketing Accountant : So you think the Raiders will ever make it back to Oakland ?

Bottom line (my opinion, and I know there's others)

Taking a 4S design up in volts to gofaster has many pitfalls. It's a stage that is just a step along the way that many of us go through (myself included) to arrive at a greater understanding of how to achieve greater speeds (and depleted bankrolls). Joining the ZSP/WTS Club ( ZoomSplashPlop/What'sThatSmell?) is a rite of passage in FE. At some point (hopefully sooner than later) the realization will come that taking a nice rtr past the point THAT IT WAS NEVER INTENDED TO GO is an excercise in futility.

While nowhere near an apples-to-apples comparison, here's some sub 6-cell record speeds to demonstrate that you don't need higher cell counts to gofaster:

2-Cell N-2 Hydro - 103.3mph

4-Cell P-Hydro - 114.796mph

4-Cell P Offshore - 93.711mph

Above all : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOMTnLHDWRA

Diesel6401
12-24-2012, 11:46 AM
I would honestly LOVE to see the data from this stock setup on 6s.

S3 iPhone killer via Tapatalk

olwarbirds
12-24-2012, 02:09 PM
We have taken the stock stuff out of the BJ already and replaced with 180amp esc and 4082 leopard...in response to previous question about stock motor mount...the leopard 4082 2000kv works fine with the stock motor mount but it does need some rear motor support so we are replacing it with the ose motor mount...

jsturess
02-25-2013, 07:55 AM
We have taken the stock stuff out of the BJ already and replaced with 180amp esc and 4082 leopard...in response to previous question about stock motor mount...the leopard 4082 2000kv works fine with the stock motor mount but it does need some rear motor support so we are replacing it with the ose motor mount...
Some pictures?

AlanD
04-09-2013, 06:04 AM
bR65, it looks like you have a Leopard motor in your upgrade and you're using the stock motor mount. The Leopard cans are longer than the DYN3830 motor so its recommended to use a mount with rear support.

Did you have any problems running the Leopard with the stock mount?

CHIEFY_44
04-12-2013, 03:21 AM
I run a castle 15151Y in my mg and I don't have anything in there apart from the stock motor mount, never had a problem even after a high speed flip,