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View Full Version : Ugh oh- Blackjack 29 may have an issue



civileng68
11-03-2012, 10:53 PM
After reviewing the tech specs on the esc of the BJ 29, I read it could handle a 6s setup in 30c. I was in the local Proboat dealer today to get my 2, 3s lipos. When in there I met another guy who was the first to buy the BJ 29 from that store, I was the 2nd. He saw me buying the lipos and said "I just got those lipos last week, man that thing is fast. Unfortunately I lost my boat to fire after running them". I said "whoa, wait, your boat caught fire with these?" He said it had nothing to do with the lipos but that there was a malfunction in the esc he believes since the fire was in the connector that goes out to the motor. The store owner also felt it wasnt the batteries but the malfunction. Even proboat said the same and is sending him a new boat.

So, comforted, I went ahead. I put the batteries in and ran that baby 6s for the first time. It is sick fast! However, about 4 mins in, i lost power. I sent my Miss Elam out on a recovery mission. When I got my BJ 29 in, I removed the top to get a plume of smoke in my face and a foul smell. I was fortunate. There was alot of smoke but the only thing that had happened was the cable from the esc to the motor was melted and separated on the "crimp" in the middle between the two. Im not sure what it is called or what purpose it serves but its like a wire crimp (though I think it serves a different purpose).

Anyways, it was hot (the wire) and even left a burn mark on the interior wood but fortunately no fire, just a ton of smoke and now a dead line. The rudder still worked and when I pressed the accelerator i could hear it try but it wouldnt do anything I guess since that wire was melted apart. It is the black wire.

This is 2 out of 2 boats sold from that store (the first two) that have now caught fire (in a sense) when going 6s (staying in spec). i'm new to this hobby so IM just curious if anyone knows what could be causing this. Should I upgrade my esc? It is wiring? The motor? The batteries (Speedpack 5300, 2s, 30c)?

Im taking it in this week to get it fixed as those guys do a good solder job, but IM curious if (before I get it in MOnday) anyone has any input. Can i Just resolder that wire myself and go back to 2s until I figure it out? What is that thing in the middle, will it need replacing?

Thanks guys!

Fluid
11-03-2012, 11:15 PM
Regardless of what the "specs" say, these are 4S boats, not 6s boats. This is what I found for the recommended battery on the PB website and in the Owner's Manual - note it does not recommend 6s:

Battery: 2-7.2V NiMH sub-C or 7.4 LiPo+30C

When you run 6S the amp draw goes up greatly unless you reduce the prop size. Running for 4 minutes it is no wonder that you melted a connector. This can be repaired. You were lucky you did not burn down the ESC. Shame on the LHS for telling you guys it is perfectly fine to run 6S. If you insist on running it on 6S, reduce the prop size and time your runs to about 2 minutes. Otherwise you will just repeat the heat or worse.



.

civileng68
11-04-2012, 01:36 AM
Ok fluid, thank you for your response. Yeah im sort of new to this, at least in the more powerful boats. So, just a question, since I have the 3s lipos now which weren't cheap.........and I want the speed I get from them, could I just upgrade my esc? Is that a very difficult process? If I upgrade it, am I limited to certain brands types due to it being proboat with a speck radio? Can you let me know if there's anything in particular I need to look for? Maybe my LHS will know and be able to just sell me one, as they would install it for free if I bought it from them.

Thanks again for the info. Yeah, clearly its not good for 6s. I did see what you quoted in the manual but i remember even seeing somwhere around the esc area in the book that it mentions running abilities on 6s, but it wasnt alot of text, just a comment.

I'd like to run the boat 6s, but just another question.....can that motor handle it? I want to make sure if I spend money to upgrade the esc that I dont end up burning up something else.

Darin Jordan
11-04-2012, 01:50 AM
Just a word of caution... if you are going to do ANYTHING beyond running these boats stock (this applies to pretty much ANY RTR), REPLACE THE CONTACTS! I am a firm believer that the vast majority of RTR ESC failures are caused by the contacts desoldering under the heat shrink and shorting out the ESC over several runs... eventually, the solder joint fails all together. Some decent 5.5+ sized contacts will prevent this.

Also, I wouldn't expect much performance of ANY kind with the stock props on these boats... Not unless you take the time to really prep them. Your money would be better spent on 4S and getting the right prop on the boat, than any higher voltage with the stock prop.

As for the motor holding up... unless you do the above, not a chance. IF you do the above, it'll hold up for a bit, depending on how you prop it, but, NOT unlike any Traxxas Stampede or any other RC vehicle, if you push things too far, they won't last. You have to build up to it.

Personally, I wouldn't run the boat on anything over 5S. If you want to run 6S, maybe pickup a Miss Geico 1500KV motor, or another more suitable to that kind of voltage. The motor doesn't care about the Voltage, but the RPMs will definitely shorten it's life...

civileng68
11-04-2012, 02:04 AM
Just a word of caution... if you are going to do ANYTHING beyond running these boats stock (this applies to pretty much ANY RTR), REPLACE THE CONTACTS! I am a firm believer that the vast majority of RTR ESC failures are caused by the contacts desoldering under the heat shrink and shorting out the ESC over several runs... eventually, the solder joint fails all together. Some decent 5.5+ sized contacts will prevent this.

Also, I wouldn't expect much performance of ANY kind with the stock props on these boats... Not unless you take the time to really prep them. Your money would be better spent on 4S and getting the right prop on the boat, than any higher voltage with the stock prop.

As for the motor holding up... unless you do the above, not a chance. IF you do the above, it'll hold up for a bit, depending on how you prop it, but, NOT unlike any Traxxas Stampede or any other RC vehicle, if you push things too far, they won't last. You have to build up to it.

Personally, I wouldn't run the boat on anything over 5S. If you want to run 6S, maybe pickup a Miss Geico 1500KV motor, or another more suitable to that kind of voltage. The motor doesn't care about the Voltage, but the RPMs will definitely shorten it's life...

Ok, I didnt think about that. So I can safely run at 5s? So would that work with a 2s lipo (30c) 5300 and a 3s lipo (30c) 5300? Thats compatible?

Secondly......so I just need to get that connector fixed. So do I just buy a replacement connector and then resolder the lines back together? How does the connector connect the two sides? I'll take pics and put them on here tomorrow. Any help you guys give would be great.

I would just upgrade the esc but, frankly if its going to wear the motor over time by using 6s, I'd rather not. Its a great performing motor IMO (1800k) so I'd like to keep it in good shape.

Thanks so much guys!

egneg
11-04-2012, 07:36 AM
Yes you can run the 2S and 3S in series because they have the same mAh and C rating. All the connectors need to be replaced not just the one with problems.

ray schrauwen
11-04-2012, 12:17 PM
+1......



Regardless of what the "specs" say, these are 4S boats, not 6s boats. This is what I found for the recommended battery on the PB website and in the Owner's Manual - note it does not recommend 6s:

Battery: 2-7.2V NiMH sub-C or 7.4 LiPo+30C

When you run 6S the amp draw goes up greatly unless you reduce the prop size. Running for 4 minutes it is no wonder that you melted a connector. This can be repaired. You were lucky you did not burn down the ESC. Shame on the LHS for telling you guys it is perfectly fine to run 6S. If you insist on running it on 6S, reduce the prop size and time your runs to about 2 minutes. Otherwise you will just repeat the heat or worse.



.

brg65
11-04-2012, 06:55 PM
Miss Geico and Blackjack 29 are more then capable of running on 6s. The 1800kv motor is not suitable for 6s. Thats why it burnt up.

olwarbirds
11-06-2012, 08:33 PM
The PB BJ29 is rated for 6s operation...But there is a problem that is being fixed now...problem is not the esc or motor its the size of the wires coming out of the motor...for 6s these wires should be 12ga and there not...they are more like 14-16ga...so it bottlenecks (impedes) at the bullet connectors causing the solder to melt....motor nor esc get hot...we have been running our BJ with 6s since it became available at the hobby shop were I work....I contacted PB via Horizon hobby and they are supposedly fixing this problem...in reference to previous statements that its not rated for 6s on site or in manual...I can tell you that the manual and the PB site did say 4-6s and that both the ESC and motor are both rated for up to 6s....
Now if thats changed ...that would be very sad way of doin business for proboats!!!

olwarbirds
11-06-2012, 08:45 PM
I just checked the proboat website ....it does say that the esc is 6s rated but they dont say the motor is....im not sure if the wordings changed or not now....but HH did say that PB knows they have a problem with the wires coming out of motor....guess we will see what does happen with this...if I hear from HH or PB I will update yall .... DJ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZQmYMmJ3Sc

BlackJack 29 on 6s 2 11.1v 5300mah 40C crc lipos

brg65
11-07-2012, 01:22 AM
1800 kv is on the high limit of 6s. Only high grade motors should be run at that voltage, such as a Nue. I wouldnt go higher then 1500-1600 for 6s. Then your on the safe side. The light gauge wire doesnt help matters either. Get some 12 gauge, and some bullet plugs. Leopard motors all have 4 mill bullets and you never hear of one problem with them. I personally swap everything to 6 mill plugs. Not one melt down with them on sofar. I think Proboat was pushing the limits with 1800 and 6s, and only a 80 amp esc. It will work, but probably not for long. They do however have a very capable hull design, properly setup, it simply outperforms most others. I only wish PB would come out with a 36-40 inch version of a miss Geico. IMO all Miss Geico hulls including Blackjack and Mystic should be run on 4s in stock configuration. If you want to move to 6s, gut everything except the radio. Large wires, large motor. Large esc. Then tune tune tune lol. Lots of people run these boats over 60 mph and close to 70. It becomes a balancing act after.

olwarbirds
11-07-2012, 08:48 AM
I did ask about putting 12ga wires on the motor.... PB/HH said "no, the wires are part of the wind" ...we are just gonna change out the motor and esc for something a bit stouter and save our PB setups for some smaller 4s boats...Regardless of this issue...we are still very happy with our BJ29..as you can see in the vids, its smooth once you get the cg right....and it handles fast turns great...ive found no bad habits.... DJ

gyrotron
11-11-2012, 01:32 AM
After reviewing the tech specs on the esc of the BJ 29, I read it could handle a 6s setup in 30c. I was in the local Proboat dealer today to get my 2, 3s lipos. When in there I met another guy who was the first to buy the BJ 29 from that store, I was the 2nd. He saw me buying the lipos and said "I just got those lipos last week, man that thing is fast. Unfortunately I lost my boat to fire after running them". I said "whoa, wait, your boat caught fire with these?" He said it had nothing to do with the lipos but that there was a malfunction in the esc he believes since the fire was in the connector that goes out to the motor. The store owner also felt it wasnt the batteries but the malfunction. Even proboat said the same and is sending him a new boat.

So, comforted, I went ahead. I put the batteries in and ran that baby 6s for the first time. It is sick fast! However, about 4 mins in, i lost power. I sent my Miss Elam out on a recovery mission. When I got my BJ 29 in, I removed the top to get a plume of smoke in my face and a foul smell. I was fortunate. There was alot of smoke but the only thing that had happened was the cable from the esc to the motor was melted and separated on the "crimp" in the middle between the two. Im not sure what it is called or what purpose it serves but its like a wire crimp (though I think it serves a different purpose).

Anyways, it was hot (the wire) and even left a burn mark on the interior wood but fortunately no fire, just a ton of smoke and now a dead line. The rudder still worked and when I pressed the accelerator i could hear it try but it wouldnt do anything I guess since that wire was melted apart. It is the black wire.

This is 2 out of 2 boats sold from that store (the first two) that have now caught fire (in a sense) when going 6s (staying in spec). i'm new to this hobby so IM just curious if anyone knows what could be causing this. Should I upgrade my esc? It is wiring? The motor? The batteries (Speedpack 5300, 2s, 30c)?

Im taking it in this week to get it fixed as those guys do a good solder job, but IM curious if (before I get it in MOnday) anyone has any input. Can i Just resolder that wire myself and go back to 2s until I figure it out? What is that thing in the middle, will it need replacing?

Thanks guys!

Hello Civil,

Lets tie your thread and mine:

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?38332-Blackjack-29-Blown-Motor

The motor of my Blackjack blew up after running it 2.5 mins on a 6S count.

lomdel
11-24-2012, 08:59 AM
What is the size and pitch of the stock prop? Would a x440 be bigger or smaller than stock then?

gyrotron
11-24-2012, 09:49 AM
What is the size and pitch of the stock prop? Would a x440 be bigger or smaller than stock then?

Lomdel,

I am not shure which of the two Prathers below is the stock for the Blackjack ut here are the specs compaired to the octura x440 /3

Prather 215 - 41mm diameter 64mm pitch

Prather 220 - 44mm diameter 66mm pitch

Octura x440 /3 - 40mm diameter 2.198" pitch which is equivalent to 56mm

Looks like the stock would be bigger.

scrillamil
01-09-2013, 08:59 PM
A lot of great input on here I must say to everyone. Thanks I am looking to run MG29 v2 on 2 3s batt or guess you would say 6s. Anyone have any suggestion on ESC? New to rc boating and trying to find a good reliable one for these boats.

Bmatyn
06-04-2013, 12:26 PM
I did replace the connectors to 5.5mm and the motor still fried on 5S and burned the hull. Proboat wont warranty the motor as they have for other people... The boat is only 3 months old.... Bad Customer service if you ask me. They came up with all kinds of excuses not to warranty the boat....

Heaving Earth
06-04-2013, 12:30 PM
As far as I'm concerned there is no rtr boat our there for anything above 4s. I've not seen any that can handle any more than that without issue. Unless I'm forgetting one

JimClark
06-04-2013, 01:08 PM
More than likely bad setup on your part


I did replace the connectors to 5.5mm and the motor still fried on 5S and burned the hull. Proboat wont warranty the motor as they have for other people... The boat is only 3 months old.... Bad Customer service if you ask me. They came up with all kinds of excuses not to warranty the boat....

Bmatyn
06-07-2013, 10:10 PM
More than likely bad setup on your part

The stock set up is a bad set up? Cuz thats what I was running (with 5S). Anyway, after further depate with Proboat, they did send me a new motor but I still have a burned boat....

ray schrauwen
06-07-2013, 10:16 PM
Spartan... but, it had it's own issues too.


As far as I'm concerned there is no rtr boat our there for anything above 4s. I've not seen any that can handle any more than that without issue. Unless I'm forgetting one

ray schrauwen
06-07-2013, 10:19 PM
You replaced the connectors but, it is hard to tell what your soldering skills are like?? If you had a cold solder joint it would burn up fairly easy on 5S. You have to get good surface contact with the wire against the inside of the connector and not just in a pool of solder. Did it burn up as soon as you hit the trigger? 1 minute in the run, 2 minutes in? 5 minutes in??


The stock set up is a bad set up? Cuz thats what I was running (with 5S). Anyway, after further depate with Proboat, they did send me a new motor but I still have a burned boat....

Xjay98
06-11-2013, 10:47 PM
Sorry bout your BJ. I've been running on 6s I picked it up 3weeks ago. I usually run 3/4 throttle and occasionally hit full throt..
Darin stated on post #4 to get a 1500kv that's in a MG. would this be the same 1500kv that's in the Stiletto?

BHChieftain
06-11-2013, 10:54 PM
Hi,
The Stiletto has an 1800KV motor,
Chief

Darin Jordan
06-11-2013, 10:55 PM
would this be the same 1500kv that's in the Stiletto?

The Stiletto had an 1800KV motor. Same motor that's in the BJ29... well... same specs, anyhow... the new ones are now Dynamite branded....

Xjay98
06-11-2013, 11:37 PM
Thanks guys. Dunno why I thought it had a 1500. I own one. That's why I'm a newb. Now is it over kill to cut as close as possible to the esc and solder in 10 gauge wire to the motor WMD battery connector? Sorry to high jack the thread