Does BlackJack 29 have a voltage cutoff for lipos?

[civileng68]

I'm new to this hobby in a sense, at least with lipos.

With that said, today I had my first battery failure (failed cell, swollen lipo). I was just curious if there was a way in running the boat that it let me know when the batteries were at a certain, "safe" voltage to pull the boat in without draining it? Right now I'm just playing a guessing game.

If not, is there ANYTHING that I can buy to add inside the boat that will give me a live readout of the voltage of the batteries that works "in line" with the system (to where I dont have to disconnect anything and can just bring it to the shore and peek in to see the numbers)? I really dont want to go too low, but, with that said, what is the lowest you guys try to take your lipos down per cell when running them?

Also, if Im running my boat just on weekends now (since its getting dark earlier), do I need to discharge batteries for that week between or are they ok for that period of time to be topped off?

[Jason4636]

I started timing my runs. I run 4s2p. Start out with a 2 min. run. Then fully charge your batteries back up. Note how much mha it takes to top them off. Whatever your size of battery is you don't wanna discharge it more than 80%. So if you have a 5000mha battery, You shouldn't ever put more than 4000mha back in it. If you do shorten your run times.

They do make an alarm for a lvl, you can hear it and know to pull your boat back in. I just time my runs.

On charging your batteries, if you don't have a charger that has a storage charge mode in it. You might wanna look at a new charger. The most I ever keep my batteries at 100% charge is a max of 2 days. But I always balance mine everytime I charge mine. Plus if I know I'm not going to run my boat for a day or two. I always set the charger to storage charge.

[civileng68]

I started timing my runs. I run 4s2p. Start out with a 2 min. run. Then fully charge your batteries back up. Note how much mha it takes to top them off. Whatever your size of battery is you don't wanna discharge it more than 80%. So if you have a 5000mha battery, You shouldn't ever put more than 4000mha back in it. If you do shorten your run times.

They do make an alarm for a lvl, you can hear it and know to pull your boat back in. I just time my runs.

On charging your batteries, if you don't have a charger that has a storage charge mode in it. You might wanna look at a new charger. The most I ever keep my batteries at 100% charge is a max of 2 days. But I always balance mine everytime I charge mine. Plus if I know I'm not going to run my boat for a day or two. I always set the charger to storage charge.

Thanks Jason. Im gonna do that, but, maybe you can help me with something since you know about this and I'm feeling a bit lost with lipos (I've read it all up, just trying to let it soak in.........from everything Iv'e been reading).

First, how do I find one of those level alarms? I'd like to do that, even though I will be testing how much pull I use. The thing with me is, I dont race my boat, its just for fun, so Im not always full throttle and because of that, my useage will not always be consistent based on time. Anything I could buy to add to my boat to alert me to a level would be invaluable.

As for my charger.........maybe you can help me understand this. When I went to Lipos just recently (a whole new world for me), my dealer suggested and sold me 6 daynamite 5,300 2s 30c lipos. They've worked great but this past weekend one of them swelled up bad and it's a goner as far as I'm concerned. I've also noticed with the charger I use, at times it seems the bats are getting out of balance. I thought the charger I had was top notch.

Chargers: I have two, one older one newer. I have the Electrifly Triton 2 EQ which when I bought it was supposedly really good. Maybe it is, I dont know. I have that one still but dont use it SIMPLY because it doesnt show me the charge per cell when doing a balance charge. It balances, but, I just have to trust it. I dont trust most things electronically. So, I bought a Passport Ultra. I like it because I can see each cell.

With that said, last night was the last run for the week and I have a few bats that need to be brought down a bit until next weekend. I dont think either of them has a "Store" mode per se, but they do have discharge modes preprogrammed and the Ultra shows a discharge for 2s at 6 volts (I assume 3 per cell). However, i put that frigging battery on, which was balanced btw, discharged it down to a storage level and what do you know...........it discharged it unbalanced. I checked the balance after it finished discharging (with btw, took over 2 1/2 hours! @ 1 amp default. It lets me add amps but I didnt know if it was safe. Seriously if I have to do 1 amp discharge each week its gonna take all day for more than a couple batteries). Anyways, i then turned it back to balance charge, just to check the volts in each cell and they were unbalanced. the Ultra will not let me do a balance charge if it is off. It slowly tries to get the batteries back in order. However, this is what happened with the battery that swelled.....................The ultra told me it was out of balance and slowly started trying to balance it, but, it took forever, FOREVER, forever, before it supposedly balanced it. However, I didnt get to check to see because that sucker was ballooned. I pulled it and put it in a metal bucket where it sits now. Its making me very uneasy this Passport Ultra, which I was told was a very good model.

Someone please help me on this. I'm understanding the basics of lipos but thinking its not my batteries that are bad (unless those are cheapo batteries) but that the passport ultra may be ganking up my batteries since last night after a discharge, a nicely balanced battery was out of balance.

Side note: I was nervous so I didnt do it more than 2 mins, but I put the unbalance battery from last night's discharge on the passport in normal charge mode (not balance) and it VERY quickly started bringing up the low voltage cell towards the first cell. Could I have let this go, until they were nearly even and then stopped it and brought it back into a balance charge? Would that have been safe? Is it normal for a balanced battery to be out of balance when discharged through the charger?

Sorry for so many ?'s but figured may as well get it out there. I'd love to know how to get an alarm for voltage on the boat and then if someone can help me regarding my chargers (which one to use), and if you think this is a battery issue or a charger issue or me being a complete idiot, which my wife says i am. Thanks fellas!

[bob_t]

Are you sure you have your battery switch set to "Lipo", not NiMH? If set to NiMH, you will most definitely ruin your Lipo's. Also, with the programming module (included with the boat, per ProBoat literature) you should be able to set the cutoff voltage (set it to high), and cutoff type (set it to idle, not 50% power). If everything works the same way as their previous programable ESC's (like Mystic, MG29, Impulse 31, etc), when you "hit" the low voltage cutoff, the ESC cuts power and the boat stops (literally). The picture of the Dynamite programming module looks just like the PRB programming module, best I could see from their website. You can usually get a couple of quick "bumps" of power after that by letting off the throttle trigger, waiting a couple of seconds, and then hit the trigger again, to get the boat to shore, but that is not "good" for the batteries. While running the boat, when you visually and audibly notice a decrease in performance or sound, it is time to bring it in, or just time your runs as previously stated. I have only hit the cut off one time, and the boat stopped running (literally) and I thought something really bad went wrong .... it hit the cut off.

Hope this helps.
Bob

[civileng68]

Are you sure you have your battery switch set to "Lipo", not NiMH? If set to NiMH, you will most definitely ruin your Lipo's. Also, with the programming module (included with the boat, per ProBoat literature) you should be able to set the cutoff voltage (set it to high), and cutoff type (set it to idle, not 50% power). If everything works the same way as their previous programable ESC's (like Mystic, MG29, Impulse 31, etc), when you "hit" the low voltage cutoff, the ESC cuts power and the boat stops (literally). The picture of the Dynamite programming module looks just like the PRB programming module, best I could see from their website. You can usually get a couple of quick "bumps" of power after that by letting off the throttle trigger, waiting a couple of seconds, and then hit the trigger again, to get the boat to shore, but that is not "good" for the batteries. While running the boat, when you visually and audibly notice a decrease in performance or sound, it is time to bring it in, or just time your runs as previously stated. I have only hit the cut off one time, and the boat stopped running (literally) and I thought something really bad went wrong .... it hit the cut off.

Hope this helps.
Bob

Hi Bob, thank you very much for the reply. I definately am using the Lipo setting. I'm a very VERY anal person with this stuff. I tend to be overcaution with most things because I like to take super care of everything I have. With that said, I never noticed any adjustable settings on the ESC, but I'll go back and look and read the manual to see if I'm missing something. If I can't I'm going to get one of those on-board alarms to help out. It may be overkill but I'll do it.

I have an RC Zig Zag boat that I just bought for my son as his new toy "wink wink", and it JUST SO HAPPENS, it has a soft plastic mount you can put on the front which is PERFECT for rescuing a stranded boat. What do you know! :)

I do have a question though. I've been so paranoid I've stopped my runs short of any performance drops (5 mins maybe) just out of overboard care. With that said, would I notice a performance drop when it gets around 3.5v or so? If so, it would be obvious to me since I'm hyperaware of it, and I'd bring it in. I guess I can test around with it.

On a side note Bob, or anyone else..........since I am 100% sure Im charging on lipo settings......is there anything you can think of thats throwing off the balance? Also of the two chargers I have which one do you think is likely better quality? Do you like being able to visibly see the balance within the battery when you charge, as I can on the Passport? The Triton itself seems to be built much better, but the digital readout is lacking some visible data. I just have to trust it, but maybe I go back to that one.

Do you think it's ok if a battery is out of balance for me to use the regular charge for lipo (not balance) just to get it up to balance and THEN switch it over to balance? Funny thing is, if its out of balance, and running in balance mode, the charger takes forever to slowly work it in balance by (I believe) slowly reducing the one cell and slowly building the other). Oddly if its out of balance and I charge on non balance mode it just charges the lower voltage cell first to get it up around the other cell, and im curious if I switched to balance once it was within the threshhold, if it was ok on the battery. Im assuming it is NOT normal for a battery to go from balanced when at full capacity to unbalanced after a 1amp discharge on my charger?

[bob_t]

You have to use the programming card to change the other settings on the ESC. I'm rather anal about my stuff too (I'm a mechanical engineer, btw). I got really concerned that I toasted my batteries the one time I hit the cut off limit and my boat stranded itself in the middle of the pond! The batteries had enough bounce back that I got 2 "bumps" of power and got the boat to shore. When I put each battery on my balance charger, I was pleased to see that they were only at 3.3V in each cell, and they charged "normally", but I put 5200 mah back into my 5000 mah batteries. I though I ruined them, but they have been working fine, and I have ~5 runs on them since that incident. The cells are alway witthin .01V, when I put them on the charger, and they always stay in balance. I'm using a Tenergy charger (don't have the model number available to me right at the moment), and it always works great. I'm not familiar with your charger(s).

[civileng68]

You have to use the programming card to change the other settings on the ESC. I'm rather anal about my stuff too (I'm a mechanical engineer, btw). I got really concerned that I toasted my batteries the one time I hit the cut off limit and my boat stranded itself in the middle of the pond! The batteries had enough bounce back that I got 2 "bumps" of power and got the boat to shore. When I put each battery on my balance charger, I was pleased to see that they were only at 3.3V in each cell, and they charged "normally", but I put 5200 mah back into my 5000 mah batteries. I though I ruined them, but they have been working fine, and I have ~5 runs on them since that incident. The cells are alway witthin .01V, when I put them on the charger, and they always stay in balance. I'm using a Tenergy charger (don't have the model number available to me right at the moment), and it always works great. I'm not familiar with your charger(s).

Ok, thanks Bob. Just curious, when you put that much back into the battery, your charger didnt automatically detect the battery was full and stop the charging. I think mine does that but if yours didnt, I may need to take a second look at mine. I think it stops mine at 4.2v/cell.

I have the ESC programmer, but need to use it on this boat. I used it on my Miss Elam but not this one yet, so I guess I should do that. I only used it on the Elam to set it at Lipos vs. NIMH, whereas this boat has a toggle on board. I guess I should use it for the purpose of the cutoff, which i totally forgot it had.

Yeah I THINK its supposed to cut it off when it hits 3.3 on that card, but then make it where you can sputter it back. At least thats what the hobby shop guy told me.

[bob_t]

On the programming card for the 45A and 60A PRB controllers, you can set what it does when it hits the cut off ... reduce to 50% power limit, or drop to idle (no throttle). I set mine to no throttle ... it just stops, literally while you have your finger on the trigger. You let of the trigger, wait a few seconds, and then you get a short (2-3 seconds) "bump" of power, but I think that is only battery unloaded "bounce back", since it cuts back off pretty much immediately, again, after that. That was enough of a bump (I did it twice) to get the boat to shore. Probably not the best thing for the batteries, but when I stuck them on the charger and displayed each cell, both cells were at 3.3X (I think 3.34 or something like that, don't remember exactly anymore), but they were above 3.0, for sure, which is supposed to be the danger point or maybe point of no return, from what I have read.
Regarding chargers, mine has a limit mah setting (upper threshold where it stops charging whether it is "full", or not), regardless of battery type or voltage, and it has a hard stop of 4.2V per cell. It stops charging, which ever comes first. When I saw that it wasn't going to get to 4.2V (hard setting in the charger that I cannot change) prior to hitting the 5000 mah limit that I set, I just raised the max mah allowable to 5400, and it stopped at 5200 mah because it hit the 4.2V/cell hard stop within the charger.

I am by no means an expert in this stuff and have had a lot of the same questions as you in the not too distant past. I have been experimenting a lot, and reading a whole lot, trying to get up this learning curve. So far I haven't exploded anything (other than liberating one prop blade on a plastic prop) and haven't had anything catch on fire, so I think I'm doing ok for the moment. :biggrin:

Hope that helps,
Bob

[mannytx1]

civileng68

I have the same problem with Impulse 31 v2 esc dyn38020 (80 amp)
program card will not work
sent back to Horizon
servo does not work
esc does not work for high volt cutoff and cutoff type ldle, (can not be programmed with programming card)
program card will not work
sent back to Horizon
not protect LiPo or NiMH batteries. no volt cutoff and cutoff type ldle. sounds "be" but not programming (explodes batteries) no factory settings.
other programs work, brake, reverse
sent back to Horizon
this is problem DYN3820 (80AMP) do not work
NO automatic volt
cutoff
No auto detection for the number and
type of cells. This circuit no provides the
correct cutoff for all types and number
of cells.

[forescott]

Bummer! Sounds like proboat might have an issue with some of their esc's.

[TheShaughnessy]

forescott, any vids of that twin outboard? That thing looks bad A$$. What part of CA? are you closer to legg lake or Minden?

at this point i'm not so sure it is an issue on the proboat end, almost sounds like user error. However, if it is a proboat problem I've always had great experiences with Horizon hobby's customer support.

[hydro_pyro]

Better question: does the LVC work with 6s? Does the ESC auto-detect which voltage you're running on? Does it have two separate "danger zone" voltage ranges that activate LVC for 4s and. 6s, respectively?

I've ran mine on 6s a few times, and it's incredible. Getting 52 mph on smooth water and 58 mph on choppy ripple.