Z-poxy????

[LOVE6S]

Hi guys, hope everyone is havn a good weekend, I am going to try my hand at some CF cloth laying, got all the stuff, but I think I ordered the wrong Z-poxy. I got the 30 min epoxy, I should of got the finishing epoxy, is that correct? Will the 30 min epoxy work ok to lay the CF? if not is there several options of stuff to get, or do I just order the finishing epoxy, thank you.

[Heaving Earth]

You want the finishing resin for sure

[LOVE6S]

You want the finishing resin for sure Thanks bud.

[Fluid]

The 30-minute epoxy will not be thin enough to thoroughly wet the CF. Note that you want to use a minimum of the Finishing Resin when laying down CF cloth - you don't want a puddle of epoxy on the surface after you are done. I paint a thin coat of epoxy on the fiberglass surface, roll out the CF and use just enough epoxy to get it thoroughly wet. The grain of the CF cloth is raised and very evident. Too much epoxy and the strength will be reduced a lot. Ideally CF should be used with a vacuum setup to keep it 'tight' to the underlying material with a minimum of resin - tough for most of us to accomplish.


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[detox]

Do a test by laminating carbonfiber vs. fiberglass. I believe you will like the laminated fiberglass better. I once laminated carbonfiber using Z Poxy finishing resin and it was very brittle (snapped in two pieces). Fiberglass would break, but stay together.

[Fluid]

I have crashed several boats at over 80 mph and not broken the CF loose from the FG. It sounds like you used 'way too much resin when laminating the CF onto your FG. BTW, using CF imparts stiffness to the hull, it is not meant to impart "strength". What you use depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Of course, plenty of folks just like the looks of CF in their hull - nothing wrong with that either.


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[iamandrew]

the amounts of different people on this site seem to use a lot of different products, different types of epoxy etc. I have NO idea why people dont stick with stuff like West Systems 105 with a 207 hardener, it will do everything!

[siberianhusky]

I completely agree with the West comment, also much cheaper in the long run than buying all those small packaged bottles. I use it for almost everything with the appropriate fillers etc. The only other one I use is JB weld for installing stuffing tubes, bonds to roughed up brass like nothing else I've found.
For a short while I used System 3 but went back to West once I ran out. No problems but West is thinner and wets out cloth better.

[martin]

I use Zpoxy finishing resin & west, i also think the west is better. The Zpoxy does a pretty good job but not as good as the West, the West i think is stronger & not as brittle. I also use the various fillers & fibres that West offer depending on what job im doing.

[Heaving Earth]

i use zpoxy with good results. some of us are just learning and not so concerned with being able to drive over the boat with a tank.

[detox]

I built my first Whiplash 20 using the Z Poxy. I have since then hit several odjects in the water and boat has stayed together.

I now use this brand (127 thin resin and 350 hardener). I use fumed silica or micro balloons as fillers to thicken. http://store.raka.com/11/2quartepoxykit.aspx

[siberianhusky]

It's not about being able to "drive a tank over it". Ever see what happens when a motor mount rips out at full tilt? Quality adhesives with proper prep are very important in holding these things together with the power of even a spec setup, Think of the forces the mass of the motor is generating on the hull in a 45mph twisting and flipping crash. I bent the crap out of the stock Motley Crew mount in just such a crash. Dare you to jump off the back of a boat doing 45 mph, see how hard you hit the water! No different for one of these in a crash.
45 (or close to it) is within the capabilities of most of the modern RTR boats.
West isn't the only quality epoxy out there by any stretch, but most of the time it's available locally at marine stores or quality lumber stores, one of the reasons it's very popular is the wide distribution network.

[tlandauer]

I started to use the West System and I will never look back, I used 205/206 to stiffen the MHZ Xtreme hull. Great stuff, didn't use CF, just personal preferance, don't like dark color in the hull. For the transom, I mixed with there heavy filler , man, that stuff is strong.
My observation was that the Zpoxy is a very good quality product, but the difference beteen the 30 Min. Epoxy and the Finishing Epoxy is telling: I take the left over ( cured ) out of the bottom of the 1 oz. mixing cup, and the 30 Min. Epoxy is much stronger then the Finishing Epoxy, seems the latter is very brittle and is really intented to be used with some other strengthening materials such as CF or FG.
Just my $.02

[LOVE6S]

I built my first Whiplash 20 using the Z Poxy. I have since then hit several odjects in the water and boat has stayed together.

I now use this brand (127 thin resin and 350 hardener). I use fumed silica or micro balloons as fillers to thicken. http://store.raka.com/11/2quartepoxykit.aspx I went to the site and checked thes stuff out, looks interesting, I like the idea of adding a filler to make a easy to work with past, but what does it cut your working time down to in a 30 min epoxy?

[siberianhusky]

No change in the cure time, The fillers are inert and don't effect the chemical reaction.

[jcald2000]

Depending on which filler you are using, the increased Mass can speed up the cure!
This why the mixture in the cup cures much faster than what you have put on the boat.

[larryrose11]

Love6s,
I just got done with a few screw up of my own using CF cloth to make a motor mount for my Starship, which has a funny cross section. I could have used pre-cured CF stock, and cut the shape out, but I was not happy with a butt joint that needed to be so strong. So, I went about learning the ins and outs of non-commercial CF layup, and working with experts at my workplace, I found a method that works great for home use (wet layup, non-vacuum, non autoclave)
The secret to make a strong part with CF mat at home:
- Fully wet the surface. This ensures there are NO VOIDS between the CF layers.
- Mechanical clamping: you must do this for a strong part. the CF likes to move on ya when wet. It is much more springy than fiberglass, and it does not like going around corners. If you bonding it to a inside of a hull, then cut stiff foam (1 inch of the pink foam board) to fit where the CF is going to fit, and put a piece of plywood on the back to serve as a support for the c clamps.
- a porus releasing film: I use a Peel Ply Release Fabric (http://www.carbon-fiber.us/peel-release-fabric-width-p-316.html). The film let the extra matrix squish out from the CF when ya clamp it. I also have put a paper towel on top of the release film to absorb the extra matrix, so it doesn’t just leak out all over the place.
If you are working from a mold or a plug, the you will need to put a layer of cling film on that to start.

To review, The layers are:
1. Supported Part to bond to or mold with a film.
2. CF wetted with epoxy, as others have listed
3. Release Fabric
4. Paper towel to absorbe extra matrix (optional, but works well)
5. Wood backed stiff foam board.
But all of these layers in a bunch of C clamps, and clamp it down hard for 24 hrs.
This will ensure that the CF layers are close to one another, and all the extra matrix it squished out, making it light and strong.

So, I know that this is a lot, but if you want to use CF to be strong, not just pretty, then follow the steps I laid out.

[siberianhusky]

Nope thats because epoxy cures through an exothermic reaction. The epoxy itself is creating the heat which speeds up the cure, more mixed epoxy in a cup = more heat and a quicker cure time.

[Heaving Earth]

for a newbie, just buy some finishing resin, mix it up and lay your cloth. forget all the other info….. its easy to do. dont make it more complex then it has to be.

[Doug Smock]

I use Z Poxy exclusively. 5 min, 30 min, and finishing resin. Love it!!

[millzee]

for a newbie, just buy some finishing resin, mix it up and lay your cloth. forget all the other info….. its easy to do. dont make it more complex then it has to be.

good call, I remember reading too much into it and being nervous about something thats really easy to do, don't think too hard about it and just get it done . Z-poxy all the way for me too.