Need help with new set up twin 200amp swordfish esc's, 2300 kv scorpion MHz mototrs?

[Pwb201]

Hello I'm having problems already blew up one esc running 200amp escs MHz scorpion2300kv,6s 40c burst batteries, x442 props in a 44" MHz mythic hull with bottom feed water pickups. 3rd run the boat felt like it was cutting out on full throttle and than one motor stopped than Boom!!battery is still good so is mOtor. Esc was in flames... Any thoughts suggestions is appreciated Thanx

[Fluid]

It is no surprise you burned up an ESC - the motors have 'way too much Kv and are 'probably' too small for your application. Give us some additional information - exact motor name, timing advance, PWM setting, cell capacity and pack configuration (6S1P?), etc. The more we know the better we can help you.



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[Pwb201]

Ok, well the timing is 0 or no timing advance and im running one 6cell battery per side or motor.
As far as pwm, I'm not sure what that is or what its set at. Those motrs where recommended by the MHz staff when I was inquiring on build.
The scorpions I purchased are only sold by MHz, this particular model that I have. It has a built in cooling line infront of the out runner.
http://www.mhz-powerboats.com/mhzpowershop/artikelueber.php?wgruppeid=1277&wgruppe_offen=1277&sid=8b00a4762722e5109fd61a111f3574ff

[ray schrauwen]

If it is an outrunner you need at least 15* timing programmed in the esc.

When you were trying to turn 51,000 rpm's the esc could not understand the timing most likely.

May I suggest Fightercat ESC's for your outrunners and severe amps you are pulling.

You need something like a 300 amp esc to do that and it's only going to be for straight line runs, short runs.

Nice Frikin motors though!!!!

The 4035-1200kv motor would have been a better choice with bigger props and HV esc's.

[photohoward1]

Those are 4s motors. Out runners are notoriously hard on any controller. You were spinning at least 40k rpm. To Mutch for an out runner and any ESC. Go down to 4s and and start with a x445 or 45/55 prop. Check things out and go up from there. You should be able to get to a 447 without a problem.

[Pwb201]

Turns out by further inspection the capacitor let go, again I'm going on mhzs recommendations which seems to conflict with what you gents are saying. Could it be just bad esc?

[Pwb201]

I originally thought those motors too Ray and was informed the smaller pair was enough. They are great motors and thank god willing to take some heat as the flames coming off the esc seemed not to damage the port motor I checked with good esc and it still turns over.could it be just the burst amp required by these motors? Will a bank of extra capacitors handle this?

[silver]

mmm that sounds bad, i'm also building a 1140 from mhz but will run leo's 4082 2200KV
i'm thinking of buying the 200amp swordfish esc's will run some x447 but didn't buy batterries yet.
hope for you it was a bad ESC otherwise it is a expensive run!

[oscarel]

The specs for the closest motor on Scorpions site the hk3026 1900kv show it to only be a 1500 watt motor and max 5s. Also it shows timing of 5deg.

http://www.scorpionsystem.com/catalog/motors/hk30/HK30-1900KV/

Motor Kv 1900Kv RPM / Volt
No-Load Current(Io/10V) 3.02 Amps
Motor Resistance (Rm) 0.012 Ohms
Max Continuous Current 80 Amps
Max Continuous Power 1400 Watts
Weight 193 Grams (6.81 oz)
Outside Diameter 37.50 mm (1.476 in)
Shaft Diameter 4.98 mm (0.196 in)
Body Length 48.4 mm (1.906 in)
Overall Shaft Length 74.2 mm (2.921 in)
Max Lipo Cell 5s
Motor Timing 5deg
Drive Frequency 8kHz

[Pwb201]

Hey silver yeah well the fire coming outta the hull wasn't a pretty sight, luckily I recovered the hatch the next morning at the test pond in a thick fog. So far the motor turns over haven't tested any real rpms yet as I have a new born baby boy and NO time to really spend on project.I've seen your set up on YouTube running 6s and low 80's with 442s. The dif with yours was esc's,the guy had sea king 180's and the 54" mystic.

[ElectricOnly]

TO: oscarel
Scorpion HK-3026 MHz
Motor KV 2300Kv
Weight: 212 Grams
Poles: 6
Max Continuous Power: 1800 Watts
Max Lipo Cells: 3 ~ 6 S

I would assume that this motor requires a bit more timing than 5deg. All Scorpion HK-3026 motors have Motor Timing 20-25deg in their specs. As well as ESC Switching Freq. 8-16KHz.

TO: photohoward1
The Scorpion HK-3026 motors have a Max Rpm 36,000. I would assume that MHz has the 2300Kv motors made to meet the higher RPM as they are rated for 6S which puts a no load RPM of 51,060.

TO: ray schrauwen
I agree and think the ESC was not matched to the Motor and may have caused a higher than normal power spike which caused the Capacitor to blow. I feel that if a company like MHz made this as a recommendation for the boat setup it more than likely will work.

TO: Pwb201
I would first start with an email to MHz and explain what happened and see if they have any input as that would be FREE.

[nata2run]

Auchhh, the scorpion motors look cool. Not sure what size hull you got but I wouldn't use those In my 1140mm MHz. Also if you can't use a minimum of 47mm prop or a total pitch of around 65mm you won't push it far. I agree with everyone to use 4s and max 5s definitely not 6s as that would be a instant boom. Not many have used the scorpions with that setup and someone shouldn't recommend any setup in the 50k RPM range, but anyway you should always check the total Rpm with the cells you plan to use, 40.000 unloaded is still in the very high end! And only a very trimmed/tuned setup should run that. Only a very few motors are rated at 50000 rpm and hardly any bearings will take it. Start small, research, ask, then ask again, then buy bigger LOL

[oscarel]

TO: oscarel
Scorpion HK-3026 MHz
Motor KV 2300Kv
Weight: 212 Grams
Poles: 6
Max Continuous Power: 1800 Watts
Max Lipo Cells: 3 ~ 6 S

I would assume that this motor requires a bit more timing than 5deg. All Scorpion HK-3026 motors have Motor Timing 20-25deg in their specs. As well as ESC Switching Freq. 8-16KHz.



So running the max 6s only leaves 81amps max to achieve the 1800 watts. If he's blowing a 200 amp esc and it's not because of cooling then he's more than doubled the motors capability. The timing specs I posted came from Scorpion Motors and it's the same for all their 3026's, where are you seeing 20-25?

And what exactly was the recommendation? Did they also recommend the x442's?

[Pwb201]

Actually they recommended larger 445 mm props, it seems the opinions I'm getting are all in favor of not running 6s on these motors but when you look in their site fellas it clearly states a 3to 6 cell capability. That's why I purchased motors and that's why I'm trying to make them work. The 200 amp esc's do not have a very high burst rating if I'm reading correctly. Sea king 180's have a lot more at 320amp. Still not clear unfortunately on what to do as I really would like to keep these motors in my 114 mystic...

[Drax21]

I always work by this
click the attachment. The green areas show suitable voltage for the KV.

[ElectricOnly]

oscarel
you are correct I looked it up under the first website I saw Esprit Model and it is listed as 20-25 but Scorpion and another site I checked list it as 5deg timing. My mistake; I apologize. I am mostly a helicopter guy and in that size motor guys run more than 80A but maybe the spikes are not the same.

I would also like to add that electric motors are often run past their specs all the time. I have an electric profile plane with 60 flights on it and the motor installed is rated for 88Watts at 18A max prop of 8x6. I run a 10x4.7 prop and pull 28A at 305Watts and neither motor or ESC have fried yet. That is 250% more Watts than what is rated for.

Drax21
where did you get the PDF file from

[silver]

Hey silver yeah well the fire coming outta the hull wasn't a pretty sight, luckily I recovered the hatch the next morning at the test pond in a thick fog. So far the motor turns over haven't tested any real rpms yet as I have a new born baby boy and NO time to really spend on project.I've seen your set up on YouTube running 6s and low 80's with 442s. The dif with yours was esc's,the guy had sea king 180's and the 54" mystic.

Hey Pwb,
time is limited wen you have a baby now everything about it, my little girl is 15 months and thaks most of the time, building going slow hope to hit the water this summer.
Just order the props now still go for the ESC and Batterys