Apparition twin motor or single??

[Rob DeAngelis]

Been lookin at the apparition on hk... im thinking of getting one... just cant choose between the twin and single motor set up??? :frusty: any suggestions?

[rcboatmanwithkids2880]

Hi Rodbe UL1 ,

If you go with a single driveline set - up , you will have half the financial cost , maintenance & be less problematic . A single can be set - up to provide awesome speed & performance ....

Brad
Oz

[ryan_t888]

Go for a twin if you want either scale or sound.

Go for a single drive setup if you want performance, lower cost, and simplification.

[JIM MARCUM]

I have both single & twin versions. I agree with the above statements. Especially with smaller cats like the Apparition - little room to work with 2 motors stuffed inside the sponsons.
I've been building the single up for SAW racing and will probably do the same with the twin setup. So far only getting low 80s, trying for upper 90s.
For a video comparison between both stock versions go to: www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG5BN-N8YlY. JIM

PS: Either way be sure to reinforce the lower deck with a layer of fiberglass, it's the weakest link in an otherwise strong boat.

[Drax21]

I have both single & twin versions. I agree with the above statements. Especially with smaller cats like the Apparition - little room to work with 2 motors stuffed inside the sponsons.
I've been building the single up for SAW racing and will probably do the same with the twin setup. So far only getting low 80s, trying for upper 90s.
For a video comparison between both stock versions go to: www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG5BN-N8YlY. JIM

PS: Either way be sure to reinforce the lower deck with a layer of fiberglass, it's the weakest link in an otherwise strong boat.

Hi Jim, I too am running a Twin Apparition. I am already seeing mid 60s at 3/4 throttle on 4s. Yet to get a good run on it. I'm running twin 7XL feigaos.
I have seen singles hit over the 90s in extreme set-ups and they are a lot less work and cost.

[JIM MARCUM]

Ditto that Tim. Haven't ran the twin yet, but will run it stock first. I'm running a Leopard 3674 3270KV motor on 4S2P Trinity 5000mAh 65-130C Nano Tecs in the single. Just reinforced the hull deck with epoxy & heavy fiberglass, and working out what prop(s) to use, propper shaft setup -height & angle, and waiting for a new OSE motor mount. As a SAW build, it only has to stay together for 2 passes:confused1:.7028570286

[ice_spy]

on a twin set up, what is the best lenght to hang the powertrims outside the rear of the boat? are the longer the better? i too am setting up an Apparition II on twins, i placed some 70mm powertrims on it, the props sit about 1.5cm of the back of the hull. For another project (looking for more speed) i was going to hang them 6.5cm off the back of the rear deck. same as this HPR that does 205klm ! look approx 11sec. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ-5m5-0KHg

[Rob DeAngelis]

Ditto that Tim. Haven't ran the twin yet, but will run it stock first. I'm running a Leopard 3674 3270KV motor on 4S2P Trinity 5000mAh 65-130C Nano Tecs in the single. Just reinforced the hull deck with epoxy & heavy fiberglass, and working out what prop(s) to use, propper shaft setup -height & angle, and waiting for a new OSE motor mount. As a SAW build, it only has to stay together for 2 passes:confused1:.7028570286omg is that the venom boat that I can get off tower hobbies for 500$? its the 34 c1???
it looks amazing....

[Rob DeAngelis]

[QUOTE=ice_spy;392057]on a twin set up, what is the best lenght to hang the powertrims outside the rear of the boat? are the longer the better? i too am setting up an Apparition II on twins, i placed some 70mm powertrims on it, the props sit about 1.5cm of the back of the hull. For another project (looking for more speed) i was going to hang them 6.5cm off the back of the rear deck. same as this HPR that does 205klm ! look approx 11sec. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ-5m5-0KHg[/QUOTE seen that vid... Its the sickest thing i've ever seen...

[Rob DeAngelis]

segad looks like a good one but the price is a little high... Is it worth it?

[ice_spy]

So you guys dont know the effects of running the powertrimms 'X' amount of the rear of the boat? The further back the cleaner the water yes? and more lenght more stable at high speed (no swapping ends) yes? I am trying to learn here. OSE seems to be the best place. Did i miss a thread already posted about powertrim lenght ???
Im not trying to jack this thread, i thought it would be on topic with the thread if one was to use twin set up.

[rcboatmanwithkids2880]

Hi Ice - Spy. ,

Fightercat ( think it was him ) built an Apparition with 10S power about 18 months which ran close to 100MPH , without power trims as it is just a matter of getting the weight forward in higher voltage set - ups in the App !!! . As so many experienced guys have stated on this forum , they are simply not required on a Cat . Somebody else could chime in here & second that thought with a more personal experience of this theory if they find it worth commenting on. ..

Brad
Oz

[TINY]

Don't want to upset you guys but i've had the twin and it's a piece of s..t.......... Forget everything that it comes with, the glass is super thin, has the cheapest chinese hardware you could trip over and doesn't have room for a decent set of twin's...... Look on ebay, they range from 150 to 500 lol.........

Its a disgrase to FE.... And i'm talking from experience.. Not trying to offend app owners as i have the paper weight but put your pennies into something that isn't going to crack or split..

In it's defence, nice ride pads/design... Shame it was made from a blind armless chimp.. jm2cents

[Drax21]

Don't want to upset you guys but i've had the twin and it's a piece of s..t.......... Forget everything that it comes with, the glass is super thin, has the cheapest chinese hardware you could trip over and doesn't have room for a decent set of twin's...... Look on ebay, they range from 150 to 500 lol.........

Its a disgrase to FE.... And i'm talking from experience.. Not trying to offend app owners as i have the paper weight but put your pennies into something that isn't going to crack or split..

In it's defence, nice ride pads/design... Shame it was made from a blind armless chimp.. jm2cents

I agree with this in part. It depends who you buy it from. HK does the standard but everything in the boat, hardware etc won't last long. Ebay and other sites does a even weaker standard but cheap cheap.

I have the Astec Models version (just the hull) (UK) which is heavier because it has been layered more times with fiberglass, also making it much stronger. I have Twin 4074 size 7XL Feigaos in there and it flies. I have flipped it several times and hit something pointy at 65MPH and so far just a tiny dent.

[ice_spy]

I think the money goes into the nice paint jobs like genisis and Apparition.

But are these not copys of other brand hulls of good quality? or do they make more room in the ones that dont crack?

I was going to buy the Genisis, However i totaly agree when you can buy a 'non finished' better quality hull for near the same price, like deltsport cats from ose or rivercats from FC and If had coin... the toysport hulls or how about an MHZ mystic? But how can i replicate those sexy HK graphics....?

And the cheapest china CNC gear looks so much more BLING than the 1950's Octura hardware.

[Drax21]

I think the money goes into the nice paint jobs like genisis and Apparition.

But are these not copys of other brand hulls of good quality? or do they make more room in the ones that dont crack?

I was going to buy the Genisis, However i totaly agree when you can buy a 'non finished' better quality hull for near the same price, like deltsport cats from ose or rivercats from FC and If had coin... the toysport hulls or how about an MHZ mystic? But how can i replicate those sexy HK graphics....?

And the cheapest china CNC gear looks so much more BLING than the 1950's Octura hardware.

This site definitely helps. There are a few members on here that could help you replicate or add the graphics you need. Some can make up templates for you other do vinyls or wraps.
TFL was the first to make the genesis. I'm unsure who made the Apparition first but all I know is that the ones Astec sell are copies but are much stronger than the originals. They also do the fully done paint job versions on some hulls like the Pursuit and Genesis. You can also get custom fiber versions!
RCboatbits is in Australia I believe. You can get some nice stingers etc on there and if you don't like fitting it there is normally somebody somewhere you can pay.
And polish them if you want it bling!

[ice_spy]

Go for a twin if you want either scale or sound.

Go for a single drive setup if you want performance, lower cost, and simplification.

I think ryan could not say it any better. Atm i like scale and sound! now im paying double for it :doh:

Unless you want a shelf queen, the scale look and fancy hardware imo goes right out the window when its doing 80klm across the water.
However you can not say the twin screws dont throw a much bigger rooster tail :w00t:
I guess it also depends if your racing or if its just for fun.

[TINY]

I think ryan could not say it any better. Atm i like scale and sound! now im paying double for it :doh:

Unless you want a shelf queen, the scale look and fancy hardware imo goes right out the window when its doing 80klm across the water.
However you can not say the twin screws dont throw a much bigger rooster tail :w00t:
I guess it also depends if your racing or if its just for fun.

Are u saying a single will give you better top speed in general or only for the app?
Just unsure that is all, cause I haven't seen a single beat a twin in outright top end.. Ever

[jamespl]

In terms of speed on stock setup watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG5BN-N8YlY

[TINY]

In terms of speed on stock setup watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG5BN-N8YlY
Thought u must of meant standard app.. Pretty simple to work out power to weight.. Check the single motor versus one of the twins, and they are very basic motors. They don't even have the cog right on the twin. Typical hk..pair of 1521's fit... That would be fun for the first 3seconds before it turned the drives into mintiies... Lol

[JIM MARCUM]

At $177 + shipping for the single motor Apparition ARTR - I think it's a great boat. It's a cheap way for newbies to get into FE boats & have a little fun. I also have a Miss Geico - $340 - & I can tell you it's fiberglass is not any stronger than my Apps. I've crashed both at mid 60s multiple times & both hulls survived with NO damage. With a little fiberglass hull reinforcement (as shown above), Octura X435-442 prop and a decent motor/LIPO setup, the Apparition can be a serious offshore race contender - or a great boat for FE fun. In stock form the single motor Apparition is fun to drive and THE FE boat I would recommend for a newbie with limited resources. My second choice for a newbie would be the Miss GEICO. Both need better props. If you disagree - :moon:JIM :laugh:

[JIM MARCUM]

On another note, the awesome 120MPH Segad build above is not made by Venom. From the pics on utube, it looks to be a stronger & far better hull design than my gas Segad FE single motor conversion. What a fantastic build! JIM

[Snowride]

At $177 + shipping for the single motor Apparition ARTR - I think it's a great boat. It's a cheap way for newbies to get into FE boats & have a little fun. I also have a Miss Geico - $340 - & I can tell you it's fiberglass is not any stronger than my Apps. I've crashed both at mid 60s multiple times & both hulls survived with NO damage. With a little fiberglass hull reinforcement (as shown above), Octura X435-442 prop and a decent motor/LIPO setup, the Apparition can be a serious offshore race contender - or a great boat for FE fun. In stock form the single motor Apparition is fun to drive and THE FE boat I would recommend for a newbie with limited resources. My second choice for a newbie would be the Miss GEICO. Both need better props. If you disagree - :moon:JIM :laugh:

I am a one of those newbies so this is what I bought at $177. I am putting in a T180 I have lying around and a Tacon 1700kv which I will run on 6S which should get this little hull around the mid 50 mark if not better. So for sub $350 I got myself a really nice setup.

[ice_spy]

Never argue with a vietnam vet...lol, Thanks Jim well said. i too am in the low income earner bracket and although one day i wish to buy a large MHZcat. i just cant afford that set up. Atm cheaper HK boats that i can upgrade as $$ and knowledge permit open my world to fe boats. i only payed $240 posted for an App. twin from HobbyKing. atm they all sink the same to me. and people bag Hk stuff but then evrybody seems to like the china seaking 180esc's. i think alot of stuff is just rebadged. Jim your avatar boat looks amazing!

[rcboatmanwithkids2880]

Hi Guys ,

As I am an Apparition owner , & have had numerous outings with mine I can vouch for their performance characteristics . Though one thing Iam not missing with mine at the moment as I have stored it at my brothers while I work on my current Tunnel Outboard project is the way the Apparition seems suck water up , which may be a problem with other Cats etc . So this may be my only negative comment on owning one ....

I think a lot of dubious hulls can handle well with the right set- up & time spent on fine tuning them , let's not be so pedantic & get on with the joy of these factors which is a big part of the enjoyment of our for me. ....
Brad
Oz

[ice_spy]

ok heres some points to consider. It appears the early apparition was indeed very thin and warped. I have one second hand from 4years ago. it had a tfl rudder single screw. so i quess it was a tfl hull?. but did not have #'s 11 on it. i just got my app II twin screw.
II means twin? or version 2? it has tfl props but now has numbers laid in the glass hull and lid:- K3-026.
This version IS much stronger, wetter glass and the lid area inside the hull is much wider. The powertrims have been fitted are at 45' angles???? i thought they should be up and down. They are not mounted even on the sponsons also. The motors are mounted uneven distances from transom. Two different types and thickness flex cables are fitted.?. overall paint finish and hull is say 95-98% perfect.as they are mass production from little man with no sleep in HK.
I had predicted them not being acurately set up. So a single might be less to correct or less to go wrong from factory install. i also think mounts are installed with what appears to be hot glue? and not resined in. hope this helps. when i get home i will post some differences of the two hulls and the inacurate fittment of hardware on the twin i just recieved today.

[LarrysDrifter]

Here is my old App twin build. The videos dont show anymore, but she ran fast and stable. My highest top speed on GPS was 81.1 mph. It ran on 4s to each motor. If it was a legal SAW boat, it would have been considered an 8s boat.
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?20367-Larrys-32-quot-twin-cat&highlight=

[ice_spy]

hulls are different from previous hulls. the old hull is 5mm wider, has no line on the freeboard (spray strip) and the new one is rounded more on the freeboard also.
The new APP twin comes with 55mm drives, however i think the 70mm drives clear the props better on my old boat. (was converting to twins, then i realised it was cheaper to just go buy a new boat from HK).70383703847038570386

[Drax21]

Here is my old App twin build. The videos dont show anymore, but she ran fast and stable. My highest top speed on GPS was 81.1 mph. It ran on 4s to each motor. If it was a legal SAW boat, it would have been considered an 8s boat.
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?20367-Larrys-32-quot-twin-cat&highlight=

The ARC motors are very good! You have a similar set-up to me except my KV is lower 2 x 7XL Feigao. What size batteries were you running?. I currently have 4s 35-70c 4000mah x 2 under the front which is the max size for me.
I only have X442s at the moment. I do wonder if I will be able to prop up. Only ran mine 3 times and I still haven't pressed the trigger fully in.

[Mattwarner]

I'm building a twin as we speak, twin Turnigy 3126 outrunners on 6s should move along nicely

[sampit]

Same setup as Matts,I'm building, also twin Turnigy 3126 outrunners on 6s 2 x 3s 4000 Nano tec 35/70c packs.

[LarrysDrifter]

I was able to only fit 4000mah packs in mine. I could fit two 2s 5000mah packs on top of each other though.

[JIM MARCUM]

Thanks for the reinforcement guys! I thought the anti-HK army was going to overun my position. My twin App looks like the one by ice_spy's left foot. Seem like we are building an Appaition army(Navy?). May the force be with you. A few pics of my Apparition fleet are below.

And that Segad utube video is awesome. Much better hull than my Venom Segad. I'm running a single 5692 1340KV on 8S2P & Castle ICE 200HV-2, but will probably go with the 1090KV on 10S2P. If it dosen't hit 100MPH I might try twin 1090s on 10S1P X 2 - I already have all the hardware & electronics to do it. It would require chopping the oversize gasser canopy down & removing other stuff to lower air drag. But, if I could get 110-120MPH out of it it would be a real contender in NAMBA SAWs T Offshore class record. Just kinda scary to risk that much money, but nobody said racing is cheap. As an ex-professional diver at least I can recover the pieces. JIM:cool2:7039770396703957039470393

[Drax21]

I'm building a twin as we speak, twin Turnigy 3126 outrunners on 6s should move along nicely

What escs you going to be using?

[JIM MARCUM]

I'm running the new Castle ICE HV-2 ESC in the Segad. Will run 2 Castles if I put twin motors in it. The twin Apparition will run two 200A (WTF?) HK Birdies. Overkill to the max. JIM

[Mattwarner]

What escs you going to be using?

I am going for the FC 240 TWIN esc, postage to the UK is the killer though :-(

[Drax21]

I'm running the new Castle ICE HV-2 ESC in the Segad. Will run 2 Castles if I put twin motors in it. The twin Apparition will run two 200A (WTF?) HK Birdies. Overkill to the max. JIM

I have 2x 200amp Himodel 4-8s escs in mine. Not intended for marine use but I converted them and made some water cooling. Never had any probs so far.

[Drax21]

I am going for the FC 240 TWIN esc, postage to the UK is the killer though :-(

Yeah make sure you get some costs marked down else customs will kill you more....