My Delta force 26 SAW build for P,Q,S

[maddmatt]

70025Well, I'm going to give it a try to build a boat for all 3 SAW classes since there isn't any min. size per class. My goal is to build a boat w/ a extreme power to weight ratio and low cost. In the photo are most of the parts I will use, give or take a couple extras. The hull is a DF 26 which will be powered by a Leo 4082 2200kv and a T180 (just for trials) I will add a neu 1521 2900kv or 1521 3100kv w/ FC ESC and just changes batts per class. All I have to do is make it go straight!!!

[maddmatt]

I got the DF 26 hull from OSE for $80. My first impression is WOW it is really small and cute. Could be the dingy for my gassers. The quality is very nice and very straight. The glass is a little thin but no big deal. I wish it had a larger ledge on the hull where the hatch sits. I like to use a seal and screw the lid down. I'll make it work. I'll install a couple pieces of wood epoxied in the frt. corners where I can mount the retainer nuts. The rear has a large step so it good to go. Here a couple of pics. 7002670027

[maddmatt]

The next thing I'll work on is the stinger. I bought the stinger from HK for $10. CHEAP!! There is a reason for this cheaper stinger. First is the cost , second is the mounting plate. It allows me to oblong the holes so it will work for a flood tube. I will need some vertical movement for fine tuning. Also I'm going to run a .150 cable w/ a 3/16" prop shaft so the stock stinger bushing will need to be changed. Thats easy to do. I drilled out the stock ones w/ 1/4" bit and pressed in 3- lead/tef. bushing to support the shaft. Some pics70028

[maddmatt]

The next thing to do is placement of hardware. Here is a quick setup. I might change it. After premounting all the goodies w/ double sided tape, I found out the transom isn't straight. It angles in toward the top. I'll have to correct it by sanding the rudder base. I bought the rudder from HK for $20. Quality is good but the foot print is small so I'll have back it for support. Here some more pics. 700297003070031

[LarrysDrifter]

Why not use a stronger .187 flex? Youll be putting alot of power out. IMO, a .150 wont last.

[Chilli]

Making it go straight will be the easy part. Keeping a 26 inch hull mono on the water at 75+ is going to be the hard part.

Don't even think about running a .150 cable with a 1521 unless you don't like your prop.

Good luck!!

[maddmatt]

I agree .150 is small. I'll have to be easy on the trigger. Its for SAW only. It worked well w/ the 4082. Still got all the props. I'm concerned about spinning mass. Probably shouldn't be concerned about that w/ a 1521. LOL

[pyroM!KE]

Making it go straight will be the easy part. Keeping a 26 inch hull mono on the water at 75+ is going to be the hard part.

Don't even think about running a .150 cable with a 1521 unless you don't like your prop.

Good luck!!
Yeah no kidding..I have 50$ just in my x447/3 b/s prop..Put a .187 flex shaft in it definitely..
For instance..If your sawing and it comes out of the water for a split sec and then enters back in thats a major stress on the flexshaft..Just do it...

[maddmatt]

Regarding keeping the boat from flying away. I have a few tricks that I'll apply and maybe they will work. Will see. If it doesn't work after multi attempts and the boat is still intact. It will be detuned and given to my kid. Its all for fun. To test my speeds I'm going to set buoys(fishing bobbers) proper distance and pass by my custom floating radar gun. My gps won't fit in the boat So thats the best method for recording accurate speeds.

[maddmatt]

Ok I'll go w/ a .187 cable. I can use the .150 in other stuff. I have to place an order w/ OSE soon for a couple of other goodies.

[Chilli]

Good move!! We wouldnt steer you wrong. Well.. some might. LOL You'll be spinning over 40,000 rpm and that puts allot of force on the flex.

BTW- I'm doing a SAW P-Sport Hydro and P-Tunnel (Cat) myself.

[maddmatt]

I see your a main guy out east regardin IMPBA. Do you know of a event close to Wisconsin where SAW speeds can be recorded??

[Chilli]

I'm not a main guy by any standard. :blink: LOL

There are some Great Lakes guys here who will hopefully chime in.

All the IMPBA sanctioned trials events are posted on the IMPBA web site in the Roostertails Newletters's Master Race Schedule. The December Roostertail is current and there looks to be a record trials event in Flint MI in the first weekend in May. I also see some races scheduled in WI this year. Check it out.

[maddmatt]

Thanks!! I'll take a look. Flint MI is on the other side of Lake Michigan about 600 miles away unless I take a ferry across the big lake. Too far to play. I'll look into Wis. Events. Are you going to post your builds?? Anyway keep watching my build. It should almost done by tomorrow night. I love these little boats. Quick, easy builds and cheap to do. The cost of one gasser motor = 2 builds (not including batts or radio) Have a good night!!

[Chilli]

People are ususally pretty secretive about thier SAW set ups on the net.:spy: But if you go to the trials events I find most share thier set ups pretty openly and everyone helps each other out. It's a great time and you learn allot.

Nothing special about my Sport Hydro. It's a Insane FE30. I've used it for P-Spec Sport Hyrdo and record ovals.

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?23273-Insane-FE-30&highlight=insane+fe30

I'm working on the cat. I'll post some pics after I get it together.

[RaceMechaniX]

Matt,

I believe Flint in going to be the closest SAW event to you. Check with an IMPBA officer for your district and surely they can point you in the right direction. The DF26 is easy to pack in a suitcase and does make a great little SAW boat. I would recommend traveling to one of the bigger SAW events to meet other competitors and talk set-up. As previsously mentioned most SAW racers, myself included keep our set-ups under the radar however almost all of us are very willing to help at events. One strong piece of advice when overpowering these little hulls: make sure you have enough floatation! Even my N2 SAW DF26 which had a lightweight power system stayed submerged for two days in Flint after the cowl untaped. The hull was neutrally bouyant at best, but finally unstuck it self from the mud after being knocked loose with a rake. Your power sysem willl weigh close to twice what mine did.

Tyler

[maddmatt]

Howdy, Put a little more time into the boat. Got holes drilled and mounted hardware,antenna, cut flood tube to size and determined where to put motor. I feel like sh*t so I'm going to finish tomorrow. PS the Stuff tube isn't cut yet just for looks.Tomorrow I'll glue and resin it all up. Some pics. 70049700507005170052

[maddmatt]

Tyler, Thanks for the info. about events. I'm going to look into it some more when feeling better. Floatation??? Well, I'll show you how we do it in N. Wisconsin. After the ballast setups tomorrow and I'm feeling up to it. I'll show you the proper technique for testing correct floatation amounts!!!! Its a secret but I'll show you cause your so kind!!! and you got some fast boats. Later, MM.

[dana]

70059700587006070061nice looking. heres mine

[maddmatt]

Dana, Looks great!! You'll have more vertical movement than my stinger rig. I was going to use a strut but I just like the looks of a stinger. My pics w/ the motor and tubes aren't correct. It will have a short flood tube like yours but the motor will be very close to the transom. My flex shaft will be only approx. 4" long. I should have the majority done by tomorrow. I'm not feeling the best. Keep up the good work. Remember faster is better!!! Later, MM.

[maddmatt]

Good Morning, A nice 10 degrees thus morning. Today a high of 33 and a low tonight of -5 w/ a high for Fri. of a nice 7 degrees. Anyway got the flooder complete, total length is of carbon tube is 2.75" inside is the stuffer tube held in be rtv silicone approx. 1/2" plug. This will allow for the slight angle changes required for tuning the stinger(hopefully enough movement) I added a wire harnass cap for looks and support. Also I will discharging the water thru the flood for cooling and ???? I can't think of anything else. The stuffer tube is 7/32 brass tube which IMO is too large for the .150 shaft so I will be appling a special teflon shrink tube w/ lube in the inside and out. This will protect (double lube)and limit the flexy from snaking inside the tube. It will be like a floating flex shaft. It might work!! Also the ID of the tube will allow me to upgrade to a .187 flex since it is almost a straight shot from motor the prop and I'm not using any teflon tube inside. Just in case I start eating up the .150. I'll show you that later. back to glueing.7009870099701007010170102 Here are some pics.

[properchopper]

Matt, you might consider angled reinforcing struts for the rudder. It's relatively long in relation to it's mounting footprint. High speed cartwheels, a dreaded but all-too-frequent occurrance in small high speed SAW rigs might create some mayhem.

[maddmatt]

Howdy, I agree!!! We must be reading from the same page. Inside is backed but I'm not sure it going to do the job. Brain storm??? I'll think of something. Not much meat to tie into on the rudder arm. Will we see?? Off to the Docs i go. Got a bad cold. Boat should almost complete today. Got a lot more stuff to post. Thanks, MM. PS Whos a good sticker guy??????????????????

[properchopper]

Howdy, I agree!!! We must be reading from the same page. Inside is backed but I'm not sure it going to do the job. Brain storm??? I'll think of something. Not much meat to tie into on the rudder arm. Will we see?? Off to the Docs i go. Got a bad cold. Boat should almost complete today. Got a lot more stuff to post. Thanks, MM. PS Whos a good sticker guy??????????????????

Running to the lake now, but I have an idea for the reinforcing struts I'll send later.

Great sticker guy, easy to self-design :

http://www.signnetwork.com/Custom-Vinyl-Lettering-p-46844.html

[maddmatt]

Thanks and enjoy. We have 16" of ice!! It will be a while till I can play. Matt

[Rumdog]

Out of curiostity.... Why did you mount the rudder so far to the starboard side?

[maddmatt]

Mr. Rumdog, Very good question. The answer is theres just not enough room. If I move more to port it will not fit bcause of the tabs. Move even more to port and the prop will hit it. I could shorten to stinger or get longer rudder arm. Hopefully it will work. Here are some better pics. Later,MM.7012270123[ATTACH=CONFIG]70124[/ATTACH

[maddmatt]

Sorry about the photo of my kids race sled. I'll try to remove it later. Back to work. MM

[maddmatt]

OK, I can't get rid of the sled pics. Today I basically finished the boat except some setup(secret!!) and adjustment. I will remove all electronics and place it in the hot tub for floatation check(per Tyler). After that reinstall electronics and batts. and do a floating attitude check. Going to set my CG. Which will a little higher than normal. I'm also going to pour a resin ballast at the valley of the hull. This will lower my cg and help adjust ride and strength. The boat will be leveled in hot tub by adding weight and it will be marked(water line) w/ tape on hull for level. It will be place on my bench leveled from the tape and resin will added. Secret amount!!!. It all depends on several factors. After that setups, I will coat the floor of the hull w/ a special resin w/ transparent fibers for extra strength( I hate clothe). For the hatch, I'm going to add a small piece of foam enough to hold its own weight. Nothing else. I feel it is strong. If you compare it to a MG hatch its Night and Day. I don't believe in adding extra weight on top, it causes a rolling effect!!! Take this small boat w/ a stock hatch and tape a golf ball to the top and run some rollers. Then remove golf ball and run the rollers again. You will see a large difference at high speeds. Just my opinion!!! Top heavy-NO. Extra strength- YES, but 2 ozs or more of weight @ hopefully 80 mph helps the killer chimes!!! And Bammm!! It going to happen regardless. I'm going to push this little boat to the MAXXXX!! Photos to come. Later, MM.

[maddmatt]

7012670127701287012970130

[maddmatt]

Good morning, I'm back at the df 26 today and It should be wrapped today. Got hull glassed ( turned out OK w/ a couple of sags) and determine my ballast. Here are a couple photos. Not anything special.701987019970200

[properchopper]

70202


Howdy, I agree!!! We must be reading from the same page. Inside is backed but I'm not sure it going to do the job. Brain storm??? I'll think of something. Not much meat to tie into on the rudder arm. Will we see?? Off to the Docs i go. Got a bad cold. Boat should almost complete today. Got a lot more stuff to post. Thanks, MM. PS Whos a good sticker guy??????????????????

Just a thought, something like these boom supports, with some drilling & tapping on the arm, & a little creativity (Yeah, I know it's easy for me to say..."

[properchopper]

Howdy, I agree!!! We must be reading from the same page. Inside is backed but I'm not sure it going to do the job. Brain storm??? I'll think of something. Not much meat to tie into on the rudder arm. Will we see?? Off to the Docs i go. Got a bad cold. Boat should almost complete today. Got a lot more stuff to post. Thanks, MM. PS Whos a good sticker guy??????????????????

Just a thought, something like these boom supports, with some drilling & tapping on the arm, & a little creativity (Yeah, I know it's easy for me to say..."

70203

[maddmatt]

7021170212702137021470215Wow!!! Great idea. Some brain storming and I'll get it done. Thanks. Here is the boat 98% complete. What do you think? Some stickers, strut support and screws for hatch. Thats it. Boat is set all neutral. 0 degree strut, 3mm up vertical, 0 degree pads and rudder. I will start there and change as need. The boat has a large degree of movement for the CG. Right now its 30. I have the total of 6mm vertical movement for strut. Which should be good. Anyway thanks for the pics. I'm ready to go or crash!!! Here is the pics.

[maddmatt]

702187021670217 A few more pics. Has anyone made an attempt to add small thin scags on the bottom of a v hull for tracking????????? I would guess placed maybe 1" from center approx. 1/4-3/8" tall and very close to transom??? You think this help straight line tracking. Thanks again for the idea. Mr. chopper. I'm on it. I wish I could take it for a rip. Hottub!! I will probably do a leak and submerge test. Thanks ,MM.

[JackBlack26]

Wow! My 26" prince gets out of shape fairly easy, cant keep it on the water with a PB 1500kv motor on 4S with an X445 prop. It was ridiculous with a 2600 on 4s even with a x438. Good luck keeping it planted:thumbup1: Its a very fun boat though.

Just noticed on this page the final mounting position of your batteries. From my experience, the boat likes the batteries just behind the motor as close to the bottom as possible. It handles way different with them as you have them up high like that. I know you're limited for space but with such a small boat, and such a large motor, I dont see why you couldnt get away with a smaller 120A ESC to save room and make it handle better. I run mine with a Turnigy 60A, so a 120A should suffice.

Boat looks awesome, BTW:rockon2:

[maddmatt]

Hi, Thanks for looking and the awesome. It should go pretty good if it will stay on the water. The boat is setup for SAW. 2 passes as fast it will go w/o flying or diving away.) Regarding the batts., It has removeable foam up front and batts can be placed in the valley if needed. I has thinking the same way. Lower CG the better. It will be turning a large prop (lots of AMPS) so a 120esc will burn for sure. After some trials w/ the leo 4802 and t180. I'm going to up size to a 1521 w/ fc 300 amper. My real concern is it disappearing. I'll get some vids for sure. It will be fun to watch no matter the results. Later, MM.

[properchopper]

Hi, Thanks for looking and the awesome. It should go pretty good if it will stay on the water. The boat is setup for SAW. 2 passes as fast it will go w/o flying or diving away.) Regarding the batts., It has removeable foam up front and batts can be placed in the valley if needed. I has thinking the same way. Lower CG the better. It will be turning a large prop (lots of AMPS) so a 120esc will burn for sure. After some trials w/ the leo 4802 and t180. I'm going to up size to a 1521 w/ fc 300 amper. My real concern is it disappearing. I'll get some vids for sure. It will be fun to watch no matter the results. Later, MM.

Just tape an Alka Seltzer to the top of the hatch & look for the bubbles :thumbup1: (yes I'm serious)

[JackBlack26]

Just tape an Alka Seltzer to the top of the hatch & look for the bubbles :thumbup1: (yes I'm serious)

Hahahaha! That's an awesome tip!
By the way, Proper I finally got my NAMBA card. When do you guys normally head out to Legg Lake?


From my experience, it's usually the batteries burning under water that tells me where to dredge. I managed to pull mine out after about an hour with a small boat anchor. I lost the lid but Jan over at Kintec got me another one rather quickly. Pulled it out with the boat anchor just bellow my left arm:Praying:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t72/rlopez75/march122011010.jpg

[properchopper]

Hahahaha! That's an awesome tip!
By the way, Proper I finally got my NAMBA card. When do you guys normally head out to Legg Lake?


From my experience, it's usually the batteries burning under water that tells me where to dredge. I managed to pull mine out after about an hour with a small boat anchor. I lost the lid but Jan over at Kintec got me another one rather quickly. Pulled it out with the boat anchor just bellow my left arm:Praying:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t72/rlopez75/march122011010.jpg

At a SAW a while ago Randy stuck one in the mud. Dredging with a big "rake" couldn't locate it. 3 1/2 hours later smoky bubbles came up over the spot. Finally got it back.

E-mail me your phone # at the address in my avatar, I'll keep you in the loop on lake visits.

[rc2266]

Just looked at your layout, I agree you might want to move batteries back some, if start jumping across wakes you might nose dive(don't ask me how I know)

[maddmatt]

rc2266, I agree with your quote. Nothing scares me!!! About the batts., Its at 35% CoG in the photo. Did some testing and it can go from 25- 45 cog if needed. It will be use for SAW only so I'm concerned about flight. A little nose heavy. Smooth water only. Later, Maddmatt. It will be a while before I can try it and dial it in. We got 17" of ice. DRAG!!!!

[maddmatt]

Hey Guy, I got it out for several passes. It was cold but it ran really good. I got a first and last. As Ricky Bobby says "If you ain't first your last". Actually I got a first and second for 660' passes on a classis muscle machine in 2 classes. Anyway, this what I do for a manual speedruns. I'll have to wait till summer for my remote7029070291 runs. Later, MM.

[maddmatt]

Spider lake (my home) is open except a couple of icebergs. Anyway today I got it out for 2 passes and it performed AWESOME!!!!!! I GPS'd it and it was way fast!!!!! Not going to show. Running on 4s, setup by eye, starter prop and some simple weight and balance tricks. WOW!! My vid sucks. No sound and no camera man. The first pass was 2/3 throttle and the 2nd pass I opened it up(it started way before it got to the camera). WOOOOW!!! I thought it could go thru its wake. I was WRONG. Did I get the record for skips. You really can't see the last run for true speed but I'm really happy!!!
http://youtu.be/ySrnEPK7H2c After winning the skipping contest, it wouldn't steer so I was done. Servo mount came off. I'll have to adhere it differently. Here is my bad Vid. I was doing a intro so be patience. Later, More vids tomorrow maybe!! MADDMATT!!

[srislash]

That thing's movin ,especially for a little guy.Nice lake.I probably would have a hard time leaving for work if I lived there.:w00t:

[LarrysDrifter]

So, your not going to show what the gps read?

[maddmatt]

Sure I'm going to show speeds. When I'm done I'll tell all the secrets. I've been building mono boats on and off since 18 yrs old. Mostly 2 stroke monos so I got a good idea to make them go fast. Tomorrow, I'll get her("WHITE LIGHTNING") fixed and do some better runs and vids. I only had a starter prop. Hopefully I'll get my better prop done and run some winning number. Today I was close to the 4s mono record!!! Real close!!! Its all fun. I'll never SAW event the boat. I live in BFE. I'm 43 yrs old and retired or as the wife says more like retarded and I enjoy playing w/ toys. Tomorrow, MM.

[keithbradley]

Cool, I'd like to see hosw fast it is! It's so far away it's hard to tell. I thought I was going to get rick rolled for the first 40 seconds or so of that video but finally a boat showed up in the water.:thumbup:

Someone said there is a SAW event in Flint, as in Flint, MI? If so maybe I'll meet you there.

[maddmatt]

The little DF 26 took a hard hit. We had some friends over for dinner and drinks. After a few drinks I decided to take it for a few passes. The lake looked so nice!!! Several passes went good till I decided to try my normal flyby. I missed judged by several inches and OUCH!!! Regarding the DF 26, it is a awesome little boat. Smooth water only at high speeds. It can take a hard aand keep on floating. I'm going to order a new hull and rebuild. Only the hull got damaged. I'm going to do some simple changes. I found a sweet spot to mount the stinger so I won't be doing a flood tube. Also the motor will lay flat in the hull allowing a straight shot out to the stinger. Heres the vid. Enjoy, MM.

[maddmatt]

Here we go Video!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LadRFEmSRVs

[maddmatt]

Here are some photos of the hull and inside.73308

[RIPFENCE]

man that sucks but its a funny vid with no sound..i can see the panic starting to set in when the rescue rig is deployed..where the hell is the rock? must be shallow way out there

[maddmatt]

At first I lost signal so the rescue boat headed out. After 50' it got signal. My good spektrum radio won't give full throttle so I've been using my kids proboat radio not the best. There is a rocky point which I clipped. You can't see it because of the branches. The lake is safe from turtles and underwater stumps or rock. I just have to stay away from the shore. I do it all the time to WOW the kids, thinking I'm going hit shore. This time I really gave them a WOW. Where I'm in the boat is between 6-10' deep. Goes to about 41' in the middle. Live and learn. MM

[rc2266]

Wow that thing was movin!

[maddmatt]

I gps'd it at 69.3mph several x's w/ a change of .1mph between several runs. (Good for bracket racing)Very consistent! This run was w/o gps and I just bent up the m445 giving it even more pitch and also cupped it. It might be doing 70mph +. It ran great till I hit the shore. Next boat will be better and faster!! Once OSE gets some more hulls in white I'll build it again and stay away from the shore. MADDMATT!!