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podagee
12-28-2011, 10:01 AM
Hi there people this is my first thread on this OSE. So i raced boats before in the 1980's and always wanted a Hydroplane. So i'm starting again, and i'm making 2 1/8 scale hydroplane boats. I've started on the Atlas and Pay N Pak. My question to all is that is there anybody with a 1/5 scale Hydroplane Brushless Electric boat. I've seen boats that is 1/5 scale but not electric and can a T5692 Turnigy Pro Comp Brushless Inrunner Motor 780kv do the job. and what size prop would I use. I wanted to use a 3 blade prop if that would help. I've attached 2 pictures of this two guys with 1/5 scale hydro boats. I'm Starting that build as soon as the Plywood from national comes in.
66838 66839

Diegoboy
12-28-2011, 10:21 AM
Welcome to OSE!
That is HUGE, I assume it's going to need a huge motor too. What number of cells will you use? I think a 56mm motor may not be enough, maybe an outrunner?
THIS (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5139) is the biggest motor I've seen but the KV is too low

LarrysDrifter
12-28-2011, 11:01 AM
Is there a gear box out there that would allow the use of 2 motors and use a single driveline? If so, would it make sense to use it?

egneg
12-28-2011, 11:41 AM
There is the Neu 4400 series that may work but it's limited to 10,000 rpm.

http://www.neumotors.com/Site/4400_series.html

Doby
12-28-2011, 12:28 PM
As the 1/8ths you are building are you first Hydroplanes, and you mentioned that you raced boats in the 80's....then start here...
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=AquaCraft+UL1+Brushless+Hydro+RTR

Brushless55
12-29-2011, 03:52 AM
Those Hydros are awesome!
maybe the 530kv version on 15s could work?

podagee
12-29-2011, 06:19 AM
goboy: they got higher kv 1000,1320 motors you think it would work. Well for the cells I was going to start with 12s and see if that should be good. Does the outrunner motor go bigger than 5692? Drifter If I use two motors then i would have to use 4 batt packs right, I would like to stay with one motor. if you know of a place that has a bigger motor at a high rpm i think that would work. 10,000 rpm is to low. even if you where to gear it up.

podagee
12-29-2011, 08:46 AM
neg: I just looked at the Neu motors and I think I found it. The 2220 24 series has 430kv 30000 RPM 3000 watts continuous and 6000 surge watts at 70 Volts Max. The case size is 2.45" i can fit that in side. I'll try the 12s batt if that don't work then ill go higher. When i start my build i'll post it in the OSE build.

Doby
12-29-2011, 10:00 AM
Remember...higher voltages can lead to death..

egneg
12-29-2011, 10:15 AM
Remember...higher voltages can lead to death..

Yours?

JIM MARCUM
12-29-2011, 06:13 PM
WOW!!! That's one huge hydro.

Don't know if this will help, but I converted a 46" long Purple Light gas hydro to FE that worked well. I ran a Leopard 5692 730KV 8S2P (21,608 RPM) with the gasser stock prop. It hit 64 MPH on my GPS before I crashed it (totaled). Good thing the GPS was taped inside a pool noodle & was floating along the pieces of my boat.

Please share how that Mother of All Hydros project works out. JIM

Punisher 67
12-29-2011, 08:42 PM
IMHO a Lehner 3080 for that boat would be bare minimum , I wouldn't even waste my time with a 5692 - Dual 3080's can motivate a 8 foot 70 pound cat to almost 100 mph

podagee
12-31-2011, 09:00 AM
I'll post my Build and when that's done i'll post the test runs. The 3080's sounds good but I'm not sure of paying $745. for that motor.

Punisher 67
12-31-2011, 10:20 AM
How fast do you want your boat to go podagee - I can appreciate the fact that you want to stay within a reasonable budget but motivating something that large is going to take some serious horsepower and possibly some $$$$$$$ coin also . The 44XX series Neu mentioned above is another $250.00 more than the Lehner . There are a few outrunners with some serious torque also - Little screamers and the scorpions which are in around the $200+ range but this also will take at least two motors minimum as to not tax the single motor to much . Hydro's are not my specialty - mono's are more my cup of tea - from 45 - 60 inch and I can attest to what bare minimum would be to run these hulls at any appreciable speeds . A 5692 is a great motor for a budget 45" - 55" build but its way out of its league in a hydro that large .

I am hoping a few hydro boys chime in here to maybe pin down whats appropriate for your build .

I tip my hat to you thats one hell of a coool project you are stepping into............:thumbup1:

Fluid
12-31-2011, 01:30 PM
Huge boats look cool and many of us drool over them - but then of course we will never build one. Why would we actually want one? No racing class, no FE insurance, costs what 3 smaller boats would cost, difficult to run single-handed, needs a truck or trailer to transport, and after the first couple runs up and down the pond all that's left to do is to bathe in the adulation of a few on-lookers. To each his own though, and I applaud someone trying to do this. But...

While I have not built boats larger than 10S or 45" personally, I can't see how this build can be done on what most would consider a "budget" - not if speed, reliability and fun are important to the OP. Power requirements increase approximately by the square, so if a 40" boat requires minimum of 3500 watts to perform decently (and more than 4000 watts to really shine), then a boat approaching 80" will need ~7000 watts for similar performance. AFAIF no single motor/ESC combo has proven to be able to supply that level of power with run time and reliability. Certainly not outrunners, which by design are low-amp motors. The Neu 2230 motors don't come close to the continuous power requirement and are limited to 12S. The LMT 3080 would be heavily taxed as well. As for ESCs - reliability at this power level is problematic. Cheap Chinese LiPo packs will not last at this power level. I can't see a prop less than 75mm in diameter working well on this boat, that's a lot of prop.

A lot will depend on what the OP will settle for. If he is content with speeds in the 40s then perhaps a single motor will suffice, although getting the boat on plane could be an issue with a reduced-power system. The OP needs to build his 1/8th scale boats first, then he can decide if a 1/5th scale is practical for him (does he have a PU truck to haul it with?).



.

Brushless55
12-31-2011, 02:06 PM
What about the Castle 2028 motor on 10s?

LarrysDrifter
12-31-2011, 02:55 PM
Id sell it, or hang it as a display.

jj2003
12-31-2011, 03:26 PM
Hi there people this is my first thread on this OSE. So i raced boats before in the 1980's and always wanted a Hydroplane. So i'm starting again, and i'm making 2 1/8 scale hydroplane boats. I've started on the Atlas and Pay N Pak. My question to all is that is there anybody with a 1/5 scale Hydroplane Brushless Electric boat. I've seen boats that is 1/5 scale but not electric and can a T5692 Turnigy Pro Comp Brushless Inrunner Motor 780kv do the job. and what size prop would I use. I wanted to use a 3 blade prop if that would help. I've attached 2 pictures of this two guys with 1/5 scale hydro boats. I'm Starting that build as soon as the Plywood from national comes in.
66838 66839

The possibility exist's to run twin's with these http://www.mhz-powerboats.com/mhzpowershop/news.php?newid=25&inhalt=New%20MHZ-Scorpion%20Engine&sid=e077ae9aec16489130ca69eba01db02a

These are capable of almost 6000 watts continuous, with a max of 8000 @150 amps. Running on two 10 cell Nano-tech's, 1 powering each motor with two good ESC's would possibly get it up to 40-50mph. But of course the more hardware the heavier she gets. A single lehner is also a good choice but i'm sure it would be taxed pretty high unless the hull was very lightweight and speeds would be difficult to get in upwards of 40 unless you had allot of room and allot of mah's!

Flying Scotsman
12-31-2011, 05:15 PM
I have to agree with Jay (Fluid)...big boats are very cool but the cost ratio is ridiclous....continue if you wish and I will want to see the video of the boat running and total cost.

Douggie

JIM MARCUM
12-31-2011, 05:16 PM
You may also be interested in these new 5698 Leopards, avalable here on OSE for $219.99 with FREE H2O jacket. NOTE: 6500 WATTS
http://www.leopard-model.com/product/product_veiws.asp?id=1501&functionID=01020202
THX, JIM

PS: A hydro that large could run 2 of these to a single drive. Check our OSE forum threads on how to do it.

jevmax
12-31-2011, 11:01 PM
I wouldn't bother with an electric drive train in a boat that big. There are lots of options
Gas engines that would move that hydro Use an X482 prop.

Brushless55
01-01-2012, 04:41 AM
The possibility exist's to run twin's with these http://www.mhz-powerboats.com/mhzpowershop/news.php?newid=25&inhalt=New%20MHZ-Scorpion%20Engine&sid=e077ae9aec16489130ca69eba01db02a

These are capable of almost 6000 watts continuous, with a max of 8000 @150 amps. Running on two 10 cell Nano-tech's, 1 powering each motor with two good ESC's would possibly get it up to 40-50mph. But of course the more hardware the heavier she gets. A single lehner is also a good choice but i'm sure it would be taxed pretty high unless the hull was very lightweight and speeds would be difficult to get in upwards of 40 unless you had allot of room and allot of mah's!

LOL..
so you think 16 to 21 hp only gets 40-50mph?

Brushless55
01-01-2012, 04:44 AM
heck twin Leopard 5692 730kv motors on 10s each would kick ass in this hull! :buttrock:

jj2003
01-01-2012, 09:50 AM
LOL..
so you think 16 to 21 hp only gets 40-50mph?

Just a suggestion Brushless, I have no idea how heavy a hull that size is. Seen one up close but never handled it. I would think you would need allot of room to get it up on plane but for something that size, who would run it anywhere else but on a large pond or lake?

Brushless55
01-01-2012, 11:51 AM
Just a suggestion Brushless, I have no idea how heavy a hull that size is. Seen one up close but never handled it. I would think you would need allot of room to get it up on plane but for something that size, who would run it anywhere else but on a large pond or lake?

Oh bro, I would love to see this hydro with that much power! :rockon2:

jj2003
01-01-2012, 12:06 PM
Oh bro, I would love to see this hydro with that much power! :rockon2:

Not only see it but ​have it!

Jeepers
01-01-2012, 01:19 PM
I would talk to the guys that already build and race 1/6th scale hydroplanes they know what it takes to run boats in that size range, although a
1/5 scale is quite a bit larger.

here is a thread from Rum Runner Racing forums that talk about 1/7-1/6 scale hydro's and the power requirements that are needed to run these large boats. I would contact the them and start there for your project.
http://www.rumrunnerracing.com/feforums/showthread.php?t=29924&highlight=1%2F6th+scale+hydro



IMO IF I were to build a boat that large and wanted to do electric I would start contacting Steve Neu at Neu Motors and tell him my plans and see if he could come up with a custom brushless motor that would fit my needs, mostly because I would want the boat to be in the 100mph plus range.

Brushless55
01-01-2012, 04:50 PM
I would talk to the guys that already build and race 1/6th scale hydroplanes they know what it takes to run boats in that size range, although a
1/5 scale is quite a bit larger.

here is a thread from Rum Runner Racing forums that talk about 1/7-1/6 scale hydro's and the power requirements that are needed to run these large boats. I would contact the them and start there for your project.
http://www.rumrunnerracing.com/feforums/showthread.php?t=29924&highlight=1%2F6th+scale+hydro



IMO IF I were to build a boat that large and wanted to do electric I would start contacting Steve Neu at Neu Motors and tell him my plans and see if he could come up with a custom brushless motor that would fit my needs, mostly because I would want the boat to be in the 100mph plus range.

That's a great idea Sean!

jevmax
01-01-2012, 06:43 PM
What an extreme idea. Just put an in-line gas motor or a Matha gas engine in that hydro, or stick to 1/8th Scale. Then those of us who have actually done it....... Can help you!

Brushless55
01-01-2012, 07:16 PM
What a stupid idea. Just put an in-line gas motor or a Matha gas engine in that hydro, or stick to 1/8th Scale. Then those of us who have actually done it....... Can help you!

:thumbdown:

Jeepers
01-01-2012, 10:44 PM
What a stupid idea. Just put an in-line gas motor or a Matha gas engine in that hydro, or stick to 1/8th Scale. Then those of us who have actually done it....... Can help you!


Jevmax why is that a stupid idea? Maybe the OP can't run gas/nitro at his local lakes anymore or at all, and has to do electric now so putting a gas
engine in would be a stupid idea..........:Peace_Sign:

daveives
01-02-2012, 09:09 AM
Just for reference, the 1950's full scale 11.5 ft length "B Stock Utility" in my avatar
shown above weighed 320 pounds including the driver, gas and motor and it went
50 MPH with a 47 pound "Champion Hot Rod" 20 cubic inch outboard motor which
produced about 20 horsepower. Lighter weight hydroplanes with this motor went
about 54 MPH. This provides another size/weight/power/speed data point for your
performance estimating.

Brushless55
01-02-2012, 11:03 AM
Just for reference, the 1950's full scale 11.5 ft length "B Stock Utility" in my avatar
shown above weighed 320 pounds including the driver, gas and motor and it went
50 MPH with a 47 pound "Champion Hot Rod" 20 cubic inch outboard motor which
produced about 20 horsepower. Lighter weight hydroplanes with this motor went
about 54 MPH. This provides another size/weight/power/speed data point for your
performance estimating.

those are fun to watch today! :banana:

podagee
01-17-2012, 03:29 PM
Ok so if it's a stupid idea and I do get it going 50-60 mph it's a start then who's stupid now. It's an IDEA that's what a hobby is, try and try again, and if that don't work put a bigger motor. A boat that size I would love to see it going 75-80 mph than you wish you had it. I don't care for gas motors to much but if it comes to it then yes i'm going to put a 10 HP mini bike motor to it. 68412

Punisher 67
01-18-2012, 02:13 AM
Podagee nobody is saying its stupid but it will not be done on anything resembling a budget , I give you credit for wanting to do this - I have a 57" Apache and it is a huge pain in the a$$ carting this to the pond and back - my boat is pinner compared to what you want to build

jevmax
01-18-2012, 10:31 AM
If you are determined to power the hydro with electrics and have the money, consider using two Lehner 3080-8 motors, two Schulze 40-160 controllers, and 10S/10,000maH packs. Parallel drivelines. Start with Octura X465 props. Set up properly, that big hydro will fly and sound awesome. I'd love to see it go.

T.S.Davis
01-18-2012, 02:22 PM
OMG and make sure there are no other boats/people/critters on/in/and or around the pond you find big enough to run this. My testicals are too small to take on this kind of liability. That's just me though. I'm kind of a negative nancy.

Twin 3080 ($1600?), Thunderpower G6 10s/10000 x 2 ($1400?), 2 schulze 40/160 ($1500?) = $4500 before you've bought any hardware. All for a "might/should/could" work? Yikes. How much is a gas turbine?

I got fed up with the cost of T boats when we were still using Nimh. It tied up too much of my boat resources. Then when something would go wrong it always cost hundreds of dollars. Oops, prop was too much baked a single cell in a matched pack. Ugh. Cold slolder joint. Another matched set wrecked. ugh. Or there goes another $600 speedo. Grab the extinguisher! Schulze will fix it in a few months. I'll have to buy a replacement canopy for the melted one. It just sucked. At least now there's enough information available to avoid the learning curve on 10s setups.

I think that's what Jim was eluding too. With an 1/8 scale on 10s there are plenty of guys that can give you guidance. Getting into this kind of setup is uncharted territory for 99.9% of the FE community. Nobody has done it. Well, nobody I've heard of. Anyone that tells you they have THE answer is guessing. Guessing with your money too. Even Jays math is an estimate based on years of experience. All that trial and error takes time and in some casses gobs of dough. Even if you call Steve Neu and have him design a custom system just for this boat....... HE's going to be guessing. That's a sharp dude but he's not a boat guy.

It's not a stupid idea. Crazy maybe but most of us are in FE land so you're in good company:blink::blink:. It's the tie that binds us. haha Just make sure you know what you're getting into. Throw out any notion that finding the right setup will be reasonably priced and accept that there's a possibilty of total failure in the quest for speed. If you can accept those two things you'll be fine.

Oh.........and try not to kill anyone with it.

podagee
01-19-2012, 07:54 AM
Well I like being crazy and if it all works out then I'm sure there will be more boats this size in FE. If not well I can hang it in my garage and say wow nice boat. Yes I do have a truck and I Fly two 600 Trex Heli's one 500 Trex heli and three offroad cars and one onroad drifter. and thanks I'll keep that in mind about the 3080's. I want to keep it safe for everybody and namba only covers up to 60" boats so I may have to go with a 60" Hydro. I got the Plans from Newton and I didn't like it so I'm getting Plan 164 1994 Bud, But I'll paint it Bud light blue or something cool. I would like to stay with FE just because I've never seen one done that big. And with all the high tech motors we have now days there's gotta have a motor that can make a boat fly on water. Well I'll try it first, and if it do not work out then we'll all know that it can't work in FE. BUT if it works out see you at the race's.

larryrose11
01-19-2012, 07:58 AM
As far a multiple motors go, an OSE member put them in line, as in on a common shaft.
http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?25526-55-quot-Quad-or-Triple-Cigarette-Boat&highlight=quad

I know that some of the regular sized DIY Electric Vehicles do this, mainly for drag racing. Thye call it a Siamese motor
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/index.php

T.S.Davis
01-19-2012, 09:22 AM
Did that in-line motor setup ever pan out? I keep thinking there's too much potential for a missfire with 4 ESC running independent of one another. Frishizzling a speedo seems imminent.

With a great big boat I would think you could run two separate drive lines. I mean "scale" is kind of irrelevant at this size.

Way back a thousand years ago Vasdekis built a Cyclone cat with 5 Aveox powered gear drives to 5 props. Had a 60 Nimh in it too. Terrifying setup. All those 4 pole motors and speedos winding up sounded like an alien spacecraft taking off.

T.S.Davis
01-19-2012, 09:24 AM
Did that in-line motor setup ever pan out? I keep thinking there's too much potential for a missfire with 4 ESC running independent of one another. Frishizzling a speedo seems imminent.

With a great big boat I would think you could run two separate drive lines. I mean "scale" is kind of irrelevant at this size.

Way back a thousand years ago Vasdekis built a Cyclone cat with 5 Aveox powered gear drives to 5 props. Had a 60 Nimh in it too. Terrifying setup. All those 4 pole motors and speedos winding up sounded like an alien spacecraft taking off.:scared:

jevmax
01-19-2012, 09:28 AM
Forget about in line connected brushless motors. Just run parallel drive lines. Two props. Two 3080-8s, etc. it will work great.

Punisher 67
01-19-2012, 11:28 AM
I have to agree with the boys here , forget the inline set ups thats a wiring nightmare and forget any notion that two 5692's are going to do it for you . here is a size comparison between a chevy 305cid and the Bugati Veyrons W16 8.0Litre quad turbo motor...................:laugh: The motors interior would spell an even larger difference and then comes the build quality and motor efficiency

5692 and a Lehner 3080

5692 rotor = 27mm x 50mm
3080 rotor = 30mm x 80mm

The second picture is a HPR 92" cat powered by twin Lehner 3080's , these hulls can approach close to 80+ mph if not faster and weigh in at over 70 pounds . So in reality there are guys out there running in that size bracket and doing it with electrics .

podagee
01-22-2012, 04:44 AM
wow that's some nice cat's

sjslhill
01-22-2012, 12:13 PM
Keep working on em boys, soon we can ride in one and have racing with real drivers....:thumbup1:

T.S.Davis
01-22-2012, 08:02 PM
Full scale! hehe How many cells you figure that'll take Steve? I am not strapping my big behind to that.

properchopper
01-22-2012, 10:03 PM
Wanna nice biggie ?

http://www.radtekpowerboats.com/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11KxNebPwGU

Biggies, Biggies,
buy 'em by the ton.
Spend a lotta' money
Have a whole lotta' fun :tiphat:

ManuelW
01-29-2012, 04:34 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rvzYgF28JE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfDUq16zowo

Probably the two best videos of FE powered HPR 233's.

Best regards,
Manuel

heraldoboldrin
07-25-2014, 05:52 PM
where i can find 1/6 scale hydro?